How to Shape Pipe: Rolling vs. Bending - Kevin Caron
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- čas přidán 26. 11. 2013
- Artist Kevin Caron shows two ways to shape metal pipe - should you roll or should you bend it? ....
From www.kevincaron.com Caron is bending some pipe using his hydraulic pipe bender and stops to talk about getting a pipe roller and how the two differ. First he shows the pipe bender. It has a long metal shoe that fits the actual curve you want the pipe to have. You put the pipe onto this long shoe, then raise it hydraulically into a set of two curved rollers, or shoes. The long curved shoe needs to fit the size of the pipe snugly or the pipe will flatten and, if you bend it further, kink. But if you are creating long curves, you get wrinkles - it's hard to get a long smooth curve. To show us, Caron pumps up the hydraulic jack, raising the long shoe, releases it, moves the pipe forward about an inch, and repeats three times to create a curve in the metal pipe. Caron is using a pipe bender with a 12-ton hydraulic jack; there are also larger versions, and they do a really good job - on a single bend. Then Caron shows us that the pipe was flattening on the top where the metal was starting to stretch. On the bottom of the bend small ridges or bumps had formed where the metal was unable to shrink. A pipe roller, on the other hand, does a much better job with long smooth curves. Pipe rollers have the same sort of shoe, or die, arrangement as the bender, but has the pair of metal rollers on the bottom. They have ball bearings inside so they roll smoothly. The top single shoe is fixed to a shaft so it turns with a wheel. It is adjusted with a wrench. As you crank the single shoe down using the wrench and turn the wheel, which feeds the pipe through, you slowly shape the metal pipe into a smooth long curve. Caron feeds some pipe into the machine and lowers the top roller while feeding it through with the wheel. He empasizes that this is a slow, deliberate process in which you adjust down the roller about 1/8" or 1/4" turn of the wrench each time. You don't want to force the shoe down - the wrench provides about the right amount of pressure. You don't want to force it as much as finesse it. Caron shows how much of a curve he got with those few passes without any bumps, because the roller is rolling out the bumps as it curves the metal pipe. The pipe itself actually gets longer as you run it through the roller, depending upon the bend you are making. Caron got the roller at Harbor Freight. You can get much bigger rollers, too. Some are motorized; others are hydraulic. This is one he could get quickly and can store easily, good enough for something he may use only a couple of times a year. For more how-to videos, visit www.kevincaron.com - Jak na to + styl
Your comment about the roller being a good exercise machine is spot on!! Thanks!
Kevin!
Never have I found all the information I needed for a project all in one video. I sew all sorts of canvas for large boats but always leave the metal work to the guy down the street. I have access to both of the benders that you use in the video but have never used them. Today that changes! I am making 4 bows that each have near 90 degree bends and need to be crowned on top (so the canvas cover sheds water). Your one video answered all my questions and cuts out a very expensive middle-man.
Thanks for making these videos!
*And after watching 80,000 youtube videos, this is the first I have ever felt the need to comment on!
+Ryan Fritzsche I am honored that you watch and glad I could help...
I would recommend that you pack the tube and/or pipes w/ sand when bending. It will keep out the kinks and flats you described.
Dude I just wanted to take a sec to compliment you on how great your presentation/demonstration skills are! You are great at it! Thanks!
Thank you! Great to hear from you.
I really do enjoy your videos even with tools I have owned for years because the enjoyment always starts with the lead in question ! You guys really are fun !
Thanks, been 26 years now and we are still learning from one another.
Good video Kevin thanks for posting it up.
crunching versa's stretching the pipe . nice tool. cheers
That was an extremely educational and helpful video. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Nice and smooth. Great stuff!
Plus, while a guy is at the wheel, he could whistle nautical tunes. Pirate stuff... Thanks for the video and have a happy anniversary!
it a bit of a pain but if you pack the pipe with sand and cap the ends with duct tape, it will hold its shape, does the roller come with diff size rollers, thanks for the vid kevin,
Sorry Engineer775
thanks kevin, your metals working videos have given me many good ideas for my own diy projects.
> have witnessed the sand filled and capped pipe experiment with the same 'kinky' results as the demonstrated pipe 'bender'; budgetary constraints precluded us from attempting same utilizing cables as a 'removeable' core.
> the local handrailing shop has an electric motor powered roller set-up; not sure if / how its geared down but assumed it served a previous life as a sewage treatment plant 'rotisierre'; a 10" diameter x 1.625" sus 303 tube was a real brute to true, but normal spiral stair railings no problamo...
> any tips you may have for end flaring the previously mentioned tubing would be tremendous; im getting bare minimum 'backyard' results using ordinary 1/2" drive sockets and a vise, more often it splits rather than flares. my idea of an open ended sheet roll w/ sets of former dies...the parts mysteriously disappeared off my workbench.
thanks again bro, thumbs up!
Good video, thanks for taking the time to do this, some photos of a few different bend angles with each machine would be quite beneficial if you get the time :)
Good idea. will revisit this soon.
Kevin,
oh i Also got that idea on youtube but then i think it only works with smaller size of steel tubes. Anyway nice vids keep sharing and Thanks FOR Lots LOTS OF INFO/help on your channel. Good luck and God Bless Happy easter too!!
If you completely fill sand in the pipe and cap the ends with even duct tape the pipe bender won't kink and flatten as the sand will help keep the pipe more uniform.. Just a FYI for next time
For best results using sand, it should be wet sand.
Kevin, I have stainless pipe I'm going to use for fabricating my own exhaust on my triumph Bonneville and as opposed to welding and cutting a bunch of missmatched piping together I wanted to bend it into shape(it looks very much more smooth and clean in my opinion) so my question is, what machine do you recommend for bending stainless exhaust? What would be the best way to do it? And most cost effective? It will be a one off job maybe more if I help some of my buddies out. Thank you for the vids!
Thank you. You save me some money on the right tool to buy for my project
Great to have you on the other end of the internet!
Thanks very much for sharing your knowlege.
Thanks for watching! Would be a boring channel if no one came by!
Hi ive have used the same bender in the way i got good bends for custom exhust pipes was by greasing the rollers in the die it will let the pipe slide instead of makein friction in also if the pipe die that you have is a ruff finish. What i did is took my grinder in smoothed it out it take a lot of time but it make a grate deference in how smooth it bends the pipes hope this will help you let me know.
thank you from France! Excellent !
You are welcome and thanks for watching!
thanks for the vids..
You should look at the Swag Offroad modifications for that roller...makes it much easier and quicker.
good excercise machine !!! .-) thanks for showing the difference between a roller and a bender.
No problem!
Art is work!
Great info brother! Thanks for sharing
You bet!
Kevin the hole for the shoes should be out towards the end if that's inch and half pipe should move out to second last hole
Your videos are always so engaging :),
The topics for your videos are on point :),
This vid of yours had me glued to the screen:),
What camera do you use to film your episodes?,
What microphone do use?
Just a Canon pro model camera. A Vixea G30,, the mic is a Sennheiser.
Great Video !!!
thank you
That's a tubing roller, not a pipe roller. You're also bending tubing with a pipe bender which is why it kinks the way it does. You could modify the dies on the pipe bender to make the tube fit snug and it will kink less.
Nice video!
In my experience if you move the black support rollers further to the outside, therefore creating a longer moment arm, there is less compression on the pipe and causes less kinking.
All depends on how tight a curve I am looking for. But yes, you are correct also.
thanks for sharing your knowledge Kevin.
greetings fron the Philippine's
from
Had a few great shore leaves there when I was in the Navy. Thanks for watching and posting.
For longer radius bends,which is what you were looking for, you want to make a concentric bend which s t r e t c h e s the bend out along the pipe.
I had the kink problem with the Harbor Freight Bender @ 110 Degrees .. ended up forking over the $$ and got a Model 32 JD Squared Bender. The extra expense paid for itself the first day in faster production, no material loss, and lowering of my aggravation! .. hehe
Hey Kevin how dose the shielding gas for mig get from the tank to the nozzel
looks like the weld seam is on the outside of the radius?
Mais um inscrito.
Good video, i'm trying to learn how to do this. I wonder if you attached a ruler to the bender maybe it could be used to bend an equal radius. Put equidistant marks on the pipe, lets say one inch apart (when the pipe is unbent). Then when you bend, move over to each mark and crank the jack up to the same radius.
Sounds like it will work. Just hard to get a smooth roll over a long distance.
ماف كلام
Anyone know where i can get one of these pipe rollers in Australia for 50mm pipe?
Hey Kevin
Thanks for the info, i used to wounder why i kept getting the kinks.........NO MORE
Cumboy
Hi. Nice work. How do you deal with the twist that these machines put into the pipe ie the ends of the pipe are twisted out of what should be the plane of the pipe?
Thanks!
I normally clamp a pair of vise grips to the end of the pipe so I can roll it and keep it in line. Or I will add a few inches to the length and cut off what is not in line.
You did mention it once, but a single bend where you don't want to control the radius, the harbor freight bending machine works well with schedule 40 pipe as the curve is designed to be slightly larger than the curve minimum for the gas code (at least 6 times radius). I do wish you showed a single complete bend on the hydraulic bender, showing that the tool is good when you care about the angle of the curve but not the radius.
The other important thing is the weld line placement. I didn't catch if you motioned it, but the weld line in the pipe should be on the neutral side of the bend. In laymans terms, its the top or bottom of the bend and not the inner or outer bend, as this weld will have the weakest connection, so deformation should be kept to a minimum. Other than that, good stuff!
Thank you for watching and posting Chuck! I am always learning from you guys!
A sand slurry mix with old used motor oil works " pretty well on some things" there are variables here...like what are you trying to bend and how much
great video but are these pipe benders and rollers only for hollow pipe or can you use these with solid pipe to make solid roll cages or something. I would imagine you would in a hydralic roller or pipe bender machine at this point ... but for simple exhaust bends it looks like it will work
+sam111880 I can bend 1/2 inch solid rod in the roller.. takes a long time but can be done.. For anything larger in diameter I go to the hydraulic bender.
I had that exact same orange bender, I threw it away and bought a JD squared bender. Night and day difference in the bend quality. I also have that same roller but haven't played with it much. I'm envious of your shop!!! :D
Beach N Wheelchairs Wish I had the space for a JD! Might have to remodel!
Kevin Caron, Artist I have the Model 3. It's actually pretty small. Smaller than the Orange one. I want the model 54, but I'll have to sell a few more chairs before I can afford that guy. :)
Hey Kevin, what would you use to make a circle or ring out of 3/8 or 1/2" mild steel rod?
+Manny Yabar Get it hot and wrap it around something the right id for what you are doing.. Or get a ring roller.....
Where can I find or buy different shoe size?
with your pipe bender if you plug the ends of the pipe then fill with water and freeze it you will be able to bend soft pipe WITHOUT flattening it..... it will hold its shape.
Thanks, will keep that in mind.
I wonder if you somehow filled the pipe, like with sand or something similar and plugged the ends. If the bender would still kink as much.
Regardless, nice little informative vid!
+bumbawhoopski Have tried that in the past but never had any luck with it..
Can a roller be used to straighten out tubing which has a slight bend?
Basically the process shown in the video but in reverse
I do it all the time! Rollers and benders will help straighten as well as bend.
Hay do thay sell will the pipe roller 2-1/2 3-1/2" pipes? Couse i think that wolud be better for doing custom exhust. In i only ask couse ive never seen the pipe roller. Thinks in hope to hear back from u
Ok cool
The problem is.... you were trying to bend "tubing" in a "pipe" bender. If you used an actual "tubing" bender on tubing, it would work great. That orange "pipe" bender in the video is NOT for "tubing". Tubing and pipe have different OD and will not interchangeably fit either type of bender. Tubing in a pipe bender results in kinked tubing every time. Tubing in a tubing bender results in a smooth bend.
☝
+brianok100 these things don't work correctly. they always kink no matter what you use in them..... I have one......complete waste of cash.
I don't understand the difference between "pipe" and "tubing." I am trying to bend 2 1/4 inch stainless steel 14 gauge exhaust pipe. So what is that considered "pipe" or "tube?" Also, which machine would be best for bending the exhaust pipe?
+Bob Simmons pipe is measured on the inside diameter and meant to move liquids and gasses thru it. Tubing is measured on outside diameter and used for other purposes like structural integrity (roll cages, rock sliders, etc)
*****
Thanks for the info.
Kevin- Good video. I am developing a small compressed air application and need to bend 1/4 inch pipe (NOT tube). But none of the benders I've found have dies that go below 1/2 inch. Have any suggestions on how I can bend 1/4 inch pipe? Thanks!
Ok thanks. Right now I am wanting to use 1/4 inch schedule 40 pipe, cause that is what works well with my 1/4 inch regulator, ball valve and quick disconnect fittings.
Electricians often 'segment bend' large sections of rigid conduit, by putting a regular series of small bends into the conduit at regular intervals along the length of the conduit. There is a small screw mounted level (often called a "no-dog"), which gets clamped onto the tail end of the conduit length that helps One re-align (in the same 'plane') the conduit during the process of repositioning the pipe back into the bender for the next 'segment' of the bend. Usually the bending requires about 18 'shots'/'segments', each one being about 5 degrees, per shot. 18 times 5 degrees = 90 degrees for forming a 90 degree elbow bend. The process works well, but does take some time, and some calculation and measurement in order to come out 'right'!
Whoa, love that Emo Philips like voice.... and yeah, pipe roller and what not.
Which one do you feel would work better for exhaust pipe and why?
Bending will work better than rolling for exhaust pipe. And I say that because a bender is what you find in an exhaust shop.
You should learn/know the difference between tube and pipe. You've shown two machines that are made not only to bend at different radii but to bend completely different materials. That's why the TUBE you put in the PIPE bender kinks.
hey kevin..whatcha doing...........laying the pipe
Hey Kevin, your videos are excellent! Can you use the tube roller to put a 90 degree angle in steel tubing? Every video I've seen with someone using one, they seem to do a long gradual bending of the tubing. I'm looking for something that can bend a 90 degree angle at one end of a piece of tubing. It's 2" tubing with 1/8" wall thickness. Many thanks!
You want a pipe bender instead of a roller. Like this one....www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-62539.html
Oh, okay, awesome. So I can bend tubing using that pipe bender without kinking it?
Practice first and make sure you use the right size shoe for the tubing. Should work great.
Much appreciated. Thank you.
Hi. Can you bend square tube with your bender ?
With this bender the tubing will kink. But I can use the tube roller with the proper shoes and roll square tube. Different machine altogether. Great question!
yea i thought the first one was called a pipe kinker. thats all ive ever been able to do with those.
Are you able to put an angle into the tubing on the tube roller Say buy rolling back and forth a short area of the tube
Cheers
Martin
Yes, found that out by accident one day!
Cheers Kevin
I'm jealous of that stomp shear.
+elliott smith
Found it at a used equipment place. Less than half of new cost..
how about ...make the same angle with both machines? thanks
Hey Kevin whatcha doin? Lol.
Great video. Brian... LHC.
Thanks for watching!
Can you bed the Half inch round metal pipe to L shape .. without damaging the pipe quality...?
+Tushar Niras I don't think so.. Sure there is someone out there that knows better.
Thank you for your demonstration. Your shop disgusts me.....it's too neat.....J/K. I've subscribed, and will look at your artwork soon, the man with the round belly looks very interesting.
What's the smallest O.D. you can work with on that Harbor Freight roller/bender?
I think the smallest roller is 2 inch.
sounds like Ed Sulivan ............ we have a really big shew . good vid Kevin
What are the chance you can get two identical bends out of 10 foot of pipe with a pipe roller?
+John Drach
With practice I would say pretty good. But there are much better machines out there then this one for sure...
Hey Kevin i’m working on a schwin pedal chopper and i wanted to make a custom triangular sissy bar at the top. I had a regular “circular” sissy bar from a cruiser laying around, what could i do to bend it in shape with just regular home tools?
thanks!
Wrap it around a trailer hitch and pull. Find a rim for a car tire and bend it over that. Just look around and try different ways till you get what you are looking for.
@@KevincaronSculpture Thanks man, ur a legend. cheers from australia.
Hi Kevin, I want to bend 19 mm tube. There are 19 mm copper tube benders on Ebay but I'm not sure if they will bend steel due to its lower malleability. Can you provide any advice?
Get one and give it a try.. Never know till you try..
Thanks mate. Another channel told me it would be too rigid. I might just do the sand trick around a custom made die.
Hi Kevin, will the pipe roller work with square tubing? Thanx: Shawn
Not with the dies provided.. but you can find square dies for it online..
Thanks So Much!!! Take Care: Shawn
thanks, so can a roller replace a bender?
For the thinner wall stock, the roller will do a great job. Heavy wall and tighter bends you need the bender instead.
Thank you for your video. My brother (not a computer guy) would like to know how to remove a kink from a thin steel piece of pipe. I'd send you a picture but I don't see your email address, but the pipe he has is about 5 feet long and 2 inches in diameter. It's part of an old doctor's scale he bought, and the pipe has a kink in the top of it where the scale part attaches to the pipe part. The thing was hit by a truck (long story) and the scale part put a kink in the pipe part. The 5 foot pipe part goes from the base of this doctor's scale up to where the scale part fits over the pipe, and just under the scale part is where the kink is. It's about 1/4 inch out of line, but the kink is very noticable, and there's no way to get an accurate reading on the scale with the scale part leaning in the direction of the kink in the pipe...know what I mean? He took the whole doctor's scale apart, but the pipe can't be seperated from the base. That shouldn't be a problem if there is some way of bending or rolling the kink out of the pipe, right? Any suggestions?Bye
Thank you for your suggestion. Sorry it took so long to reply. I'll take the scale down to a muffler shop and see what they think. So far, your idea sounds doable and doesn't sound too expensive. Thanks again! k
how tight of a 90 degree roll can you do vs a bend?
Don't know the numbers but I can get a much tighter bend for sure..
Re Silc bending will always give ya a tighter center line radius
Lol why does he sound like Kermit the frog lol good vid
+Chris Powe Better to sound like Kermit than look like Miss Piggy!
please dont think of that as an insult!
Because he is an idiot
@@xphobus Cumboy
Ok, I have to bend aluminum pipe. It will be a half circle. Three of them. Can the Harbor Freight pipe bender or tubing roller do that, with the parts they come with?
Depending on the wall thickness of the pipe and what type of aluminum either machine should work fine..
Just keep in mind that the bender will give you a sharp short radius and the roller will be much longer.
Well, I thought 1/8 for the entire thing would be good. Unless it is not. haha I made a model of the thing, with cardboard. Shit costs me almost $40. For FOUR pieces! haha I can not upload pics here though.
You know, there is some weird stuff that pops up on here when I type in welding. haha
What will happen if you will put Ball Bearings of the same size as the pipe, in the pipe and then bend it
Peeyush Malhotra Don't know, never tried that one!
People who make Trumpet put ball bearing and lubricant in the pipe while bending the pipe remains in shape even when bent
***** I highly recommend buying a proper tubing bender that sells pipe and tubing die sets. The one you have till distort and kink even single bends. Try JD2 or Protools.
***** The roller from what I understand is fine. It's the bender I'm talking about. The bend quality makes it worth it but I do understand your point.
good to hear ;) I have their model 32 and it's top quality for sure.
is it posible to get blu prints of the pipe roller?
+kody mazzeo I don't have any, sorry..
+kody mazzeo Kody, if you're in the US you can order this roller from HFT for $180 on sale less 20% coupon and $7 shipping. I don't think you can build it for that.
I actually did make one over 25 years ago out of wood, bolts, pulleys, hard rubber rollers and a motorized drive to make a 100' x 24' greenhouse using 1.25" square steel tubing. Worked like a charm. The hard part was painting it with Imron. That greenhouse is still standing to this day.
Do the bumps and kinks actually weaken the metal?
In the real world I would say yes. For what I do, not in the least.
Thanks Kevin.
Harbor Freight; a man's toy store.
Why not use a ratchet Bender like they use for building roll cages?They will Bend much faster than that.
Just have to afford one and have a place to put it! And I really don't do that much bending to justify it to tell the truth.
I swear it took me a moment to realize that you weren't Tom Arnold. That aside, that hydraulic pipe bender will work if you fill the pipe (or tubing) with sand and cap both ends. It's not perfect, but it will give a little better result than the flattened and kinked bend you got. Is it worth it? Nope. I have one of those hydraulic pipe benders just like yours and can tell you that the jack re-purposed is a really good jack, just kind of tall.
I have never been able to get a decent result with the sand in the pipe trick.
More practice I guess.
I've been successful up to about a 45 degree that was beginning to be a little iffy. But it really is a messy and a real pain in the butt. That's why I made the joke about re-purposing the jack, LOL. I don't bend enough tubing to warrant buying a proper tubing bender, although sometimes I'm tempted...
Do you need to be concerned about work hardening the material?
+Beau Jest44 Sometimes. All depends on how much bending I am trying to do..
+Kevin Caron, Artist
Is here a "rule of thumb" for minimum bend radius vs. tube diameter/wall thickness?
Please check with the folk at Pipefitters.com.
They know a lot more about this than I do..
By the time you get done kinking that. I could have bought a Hossfeld and had excellent bends.
+David Spennachio If money is no object then heck yeah,, However, some of us are on a budget..
Kevin Caron, Artist Yeah, just kidding. I love my Hossfeld .
Hi Kevin,
Maybe u can fil the pipe with SAND then you might see the if it works.. No pain No Gain. God Bless
i have tried that with no luck. even packed it with sand and welded caps on the end. then tried to bend with the torch on it. didnt work. At least i could take the bottle jack off and use it for other things.
You aren't able to put these two Tools side by side because are for two different entirely style of bending tubing - Which CANNOT be compared. If You want a good tubing bender U hav2 spend it...
Hey Kevin, Try packing sand in the pipe next time and you won't get so many kinks.
I have never gotten that to work. Tried several time and no luck.
عالی
Danial Forozesh Thank you!
trasducalo en español.
Have to look at that. Thanks for the suggestion.
if you fill the pipe with sand that may eliminate a lot of your kinking
+Fred Sitzenstock I have tried that several times and have never gotten it to work.. Can't figure out what I am doing wrong..
you have to pack the sand tight and tack weld some end caps on it
looks like tube and not pipe. pipe is much thicker wall.
I have always had a problem keeping those two straight! Thank you for watching and posting.
I can remember when Sears Robucks was the mans toy store.
Sad but true, they are closing more of them in the new few weeks.
not a good comparison,with the bender you made a sharp curve, with the roller you just made a slight curve
Wow that’s a one dry video gosh.
You get what you pay for sometimes.
I didn't realize bending pipe could be so... kinky. :-D
Kevin I was wondering where you live. If it's close to me I would love to help you make better quality videos. Especially with better sound.
x9x9x9x9x9 Its a kinky mess..... im sorry xD
love your hairy legs....lol......thanks for the tid bit of info...great video
Have you been peaking?!!!
hahahaha....thanks for the reply......cheers Sir
Try n Keep dry this Monday....
Going to wash the truck and the windows on the house just to make sure we get some of the rain!
Good thinking.... Works around here Everytime...
where is your safety glasses?
Over there!