Cessationists Railing Against Worship? | Responding to Cessationist Movie
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- #danielkolenda #cessationist #cfan
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"Cessationists do not believe that gifts of the Holy Spirit are in operation today, yet they want to tell you how they ought to work."
This is gold, Daniel! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Yes you have sum up johnny big mac arthur & side kicks at stranger then strangers conference 😅
They don’t believe in the signs and wonders gifts….get it right….
And it’s so true! They’ve made up rules for practicing things they believe don’t exist.
Holy Spirit come and break down the wall of division. So much blindness with the cessationist groups. Thank you for standing Daniel.
In Jesus name amen 🥰🙌🕊
Cessationists talk of what God cannot do, the Bible is a message of what God did and is still doing
Cessatonism needs to cease!
That dude doesn't want to experience God's presence??? Psssh
Ridiculous
😂😂😂
when that which is perfect is come, Cessatonism will be first to cease 😆
@@r.praveen5819 Funny thing is, that phrase in 1 Cor 13 is actually about how to add love to operating in spiritual gifts to make sure it is complete, fully grown, and seen completely. (Many people don't see Paul's examples in his argument overall, and actually think he's talking about some future time--absolutely off topic to his argument of showing a better way.)
There's a video out there on the interwebs where some reformed leaders are ridiculing a worship set where people are singing "fill me up Lord" over and over (I think they said it went on for 7 minutes) and acted like it was demonic. My first thought was, "Boy, they're going to hate Heaven...
"Day and night they never stop saying:
“‘Holy, holy, holy
is the Lord God Almighty,’[a]
who was, and is, and is to come.”
Daniel!!! I can't thank you enough for doing these videos! To God be all the glory!
Keep it up Daniel. These are great. Mark 7, "You search the Scriptures because, in them, you think you have eternal life..."
No wonder cessationists can't understand joy! The only thing that they seem to have resembling joy, is actually closer to the haughty derision they express when they feel their stale, dead theology has been sufficiently expressed.
It's ironic that cessationist believed that they are SOLA CRIPTURA yet cannot provide even single verse in scripture that says charismatic gifts have ceased.
The devil is afraid of the power of our worship. Worship More!!!
Man, Daniel is on fire lately... and it's awesome! 🔥👏💛👑
Thank you SO much for making this series!!! I feel the impact cessationism has made in my life has caused nothing but confusion. This series (a long with the Word) has been a heaven sent to help reset and strengthen boundaries that, for me, were blurred by cessationist ideas.
Ps: I grew up in a charismatic church and just in the past few years had a very personal run in with cessationist ideas.
We bless God for using Pastor Daniel to reveal truth. Remember, the Bible speaks of the Charisma (spiritual gifts) so continue to fan into flame the gift you've recieved and not quench the Spirit.
You sound like you have an interesting journey to share! I hope one day you can
Are they sure they received the Holy Spirit? No belief in many Biblical things, no experiencing the presence of God, seems like a different faith entirely.
🎯
This is on point! I always ask myself the same thing, because a person born from the Holy Spirit cannot be a cessationists.
*They say that prophecy has ceased, but the Two Witnesses in Revelation 11 prophesy continually for 1,260 days. That's still in our future!*
I cringe at this. I don't understand the cessationist view when God is so available to be known. I've seen and heard too much to deny Him like this. If miracles are not for today then explain why my son, who was not born alive, came to life when my wife called on the name of Jesus to save him and is currently playing in my living room next to me. Explain why I spoke in tongues in a church during worship, in a church that doesn't teach tongues, and I didn't know what it was. I just knew I was praising Jesus and this gift started without any direction from anyone. Explain why a woman came to me recently with a demon and it left during prayer without any theatrical performance, just the name of Jesus. Explain why a person close to me had growths on her uterus had them all disappear after prayer and she still went in for surgery but they found they were gone and the surgery was not needed. I could go on. I pray the cessationist deception ends now in Jesus name.
Cessationists: We only follow the bible.
Also Cessationists: Here is an argument from outside of the bible as to why the "sign" gifts have ceased because the bible doesn't say this.
He's right about the charismatic movement affecting the way that Christians think. When I came into the charismatic movement back in the 70s nobody in the denominational world raised their hands during worship. They didn't play guitars or drums or bass either. They mostly sang from hymnals with a piano and an organ. Charismatics led the way into a more intimate contemporary worship experience.
Yes! And thank God for that
Kat Kerr says that Revelation Song is on Yeshua's Top Ten list. I SUSPECT that Agnus Dei is also one of his Top Ten. Aaron Shust's Zion is definitely in my Top Ten.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE many of the old hymns, but there is so much more out there.
Yes! This is so true! Now we can experience God in freedom! Because where is Spirit of the Lord there is freedom!
I say this to you as a fellow charismatic. Stay away from Kat Kerr. Many of the charismatic leaders are calling her a false prophet including Mario Murrillo and Michael Brown.
@@elitestructures7349 Blessings elitestructures, Mario Morillo also came out against several other prophets that I consider excellent. I used to respect Mario highly, but his coming out against several prophets with great track records leads me to question him more than those he came against. I DO continue to pray for discernment on the subject and weigh what the prophets are saying. So far, I still believe those prophets, including Kat over Mario, but I thank you for the warning. Shalom.
This reminds me of a pastor who once told us that we couldn’t pray in tongues unless we had an interpreter. Then we asked if he spoke in tongues and said no. Which completely voided everything he said before.
Soo by this logic I can’t pray for anyone to be healed because I’m not healed. Genius!
Cessationists seem to basically be apologists for spiritually dead churches. It's all it really boils down to.
I was in Israel in 2013 doing volunteer work amongst other christians. Interestingly I was baptised in the Holy Spirit in the beginning of that year. A few months later a new group of Christians replaced the old group as they were working on rotations. I quickly found out the new group did not believe in the gifts of the Spirit. I was confused and heard these same types of arguments for the first time and listened to their take on what scripture said but couldn't figure out how they came to those conclusions.
I had long discussions with them to try and show how their conclusions don't line up with what either the current context or other scriptures said.
They stuck to their arguments.
In that same year I also had a lot of discussions with the Jewish people about Jesus. Since there is so much scripture that speaks about Jesus in the old testament I couldn't understand how they couldn't see the truth. What shocked me was how they argued in a similar fashion to cessationists.
I'd show them prophecies about Jesus but they'd argue that it could be interpreted in another way; I spoke about Isaiah 53 and wow, how they jump around that one and come up with arguments which aren't even consistent with themselves.
It's as if whatever blindness is on Israel is on these cessationists as well.
I also had the same revelation
A deep dive into cessasionist (Calvinist) doctrine reveals that their spiritual forefathers were gnostics. This idea of union with the divine by knowledge is the spirit that still drives them. Your relationship with God becomes based on how much theology you know, rather than having an actual experienced, supernatural relationship with Him. The disciples didn't know much doctrine, but they sure experienced God's power with Jesus!
Cessationism and Calvinism are entirely different things. There are plenty of Christians who are Charismatic and Calvinist or who are Cessationist and Arminian.
@@stephengray1344 Calvin argued against the continuation of the gifts. So while there are many that follow the teachings of Calvin, still believe in the gifts. Augustine did this too at first (who Calvin based a lot of his ideas on). So I think it is fair to link the two.
Nailed it
@@markdurdle7710 John Knox - who was a disciple of Calvin - was called a prophet by many of his contemporaries because he exercised the gift of prophecy. When one of the most important first generation disciples of Calvin was a Continuationist then it is completely unfair to link Calvinism and Cessationism. Even if you ignore my original point that there is no correlation at all between the views Christians have on Soteriology and the views they have on the gifts.
@@stephengray1344 I would argue that there is an correlation though Of all the people I have met and the people I have seen preach, the ones which are cessationist also believe the doctorines of Calvin. Feel free to correct me, but I can't think of any modern denonenation that is cessationist and isn't calvinistic.
God be with you pastor, and thank you for standing in the line against confusionists.
"And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," (Eph 5:18-20)
The Bible can become an idol if you allow it to become your god
I've been saying this for 2 years now.
Joy is experienced by the believer along with God’s peace and His righteousness- Luke 17:21 and Romans 14:17.
So let’s stop telling people we are living as sinners before God when He has turned us from our sins to serving the Living God in righteousness (Acts 3:26 and 1 Peter 2:24 and Romans 6:8).
by His strips we are healed xxxxxx❤
That’s like believing intimacy in a marriage relationship shouldn’t be emotionally and physically tangible. That is the very definition of intimacy!
How does someone worship and not feel anything? Blows my mind. Must be what it feels like to worship a false idol 😮
Even people who worship false gods feel something 😂
@@TheJMan31I feel like they're using a 'sleazy' tactic to gain followers away from the Charismatic Church.
It baffles me. They claim to believe that Charismatics are brothers but at the same time, denigrate us.
The most baffling group are the Calvinists. They believe in determinism but always want to determine how things should end for God's Kingdom. I stopped taking them seriously when I realised they don't take their belief system serious.
@@fidelamoah9115I totally agree. I’ve never taken them super seriously because my dad was a pastor and he has a great grasp on the Bible. I remember being in elementary school and the principal was a Calvinist and was trying to push it too much and my dad asked him to his face, “so which of your kids are predestined to go to hell?” The guy was FLABBERGASTED. It was awesome. That’s a good question to pose to these Calvinist nuts
I love Daniel Kolendas expression of his soul slowly leaving his body because that’s precisely my feeling hearing these guys 😂
“Extreme, toxic and unbiblical” is an excellent description of cessationism.
Thank you for fighting the "lack of faith" movement Daniel. May God bless your ministry.
God have mercy on the Cessationists, they have done great damage to the body of Christ. How do they explain Ephesians 3:20, “God working (energeo: putting forth power) in one?”
Nick, My dear brother, I am a cessationist, and I love the Lord, and although there are no miracle workers or healers as there were in the early church, I still believe God is a supernatural and miracle working God who still heals as and when he pleases and the holy spirit is always at work in the hearts and lives of unbelievers and believers, convicting sinners of their sin and sanctifying the believing ones by His supernatural power. The passage you speak about does not intend to say that we all have miracle working power working in us through the spirit like you seem to suggest, rather, in context, it’s speaking about God’s mighty and powerful work of sanctification within every believer, creating in them a strong and secure love filled faith in Jesus Christ, as Paul also said in verse 16 previously in the same chapter: “I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may be able to comprehend together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,”
Ephesians 3:16-18 NIV
God bless you and may the holy spirit remove the bitterness you have towards some of your fellow brothers in Christ. Be ware of those who twisted peoples words and demonising certain believers as Daniel Kolenda has unfortunately done in this video. I love Daniel, and I think cessationism vs continuationism is a good and important discussion to have, but you should really understand cessationism better before you start asking God to have mercy on us. God bless brother ❤️
1Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
Psalm 16:11 (NIV): “You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.”
Having children and working in kids ministry has taught me that we’re all born Pentecostal but it was to be brow beaten out of us. My daughters can’t help but to dance around when worshipping. They’ll even make up songs to Jesus on their own and dance with scarves and sing at the top of their lungs. This part of the childlike faith we’re supposed to maintain.
I thank Jesus Christ for raising you up to earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to us & exposing this antichrist spirit masquerading as religion yet is another doctrine of devils! In His presence is fullness of joy! We worship in spirit & in truth!
"redefine"
I have heard _many_ cessationists say that tongues are only like what happened in Acts 2, where God translated the apostles words into the languages of the visitors from many nations. But God says there are "tongues of angels" (1 Corinthians 13:1). God says there are tongues that "no one understands" (1 Corinthians 14:2).
You are spot on Daniel!
Indeed, not just head knowledge but also experiential knowledge! thanks God, God with us and in us, Christ the hope of Glory.
Some people prefer the book over relationship with the Author, ouch.
To all continuist, we must stand our ground! No cessationist can back up their arguments with the scripture, all they can say is based on their opinion ang philosophy. Ask them to give you explicit verse in the scripture that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased and you will wonder that they cannot provide any single verse backing up their arguments.
The Fruit of the Spirit and the Gifts of the Spirit go hand in hand. The fruit is for the individual, receiving and giving, the gifts are for the edification of the church. How can a church grow without both? Galatians 4.
Y’all should invite these guys to a service, or an intercessory prayer session, or a healing room - let them experience the Presence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit!
They will not come… because they are afraid what may happen. Jesus can change them completely so they’ll want to do His will not their own. Because that’s what people do when they don’t listen to Holy Spirit
God raise up a generation of Appollos, able to powerfully refute these who stubbornly remain in error, attending Your Word with notable, irrefutable signs, miracles, and wonders! Come, Holy Spirit, come!
2CORINTHIANS 2:14 is so true with the ceasationists. May God help them as he did for Paul.
"For as I have often told you before, and now say again even with tears: Many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their minds are set on earthly things." -Philippians 3:19
I wonder at what point these cessationist teachers are going to start openly declaring that they believe in a metaphorical resurrection but not a literal one.
Thanks for defending the truth Daniel. ❤
*If the Holy Spirit won't show up in their churches, why should we?*
It’s crazy that these cessationists have all these degrees but I experienced more of God than them when I was 12.
Matthew 11:25 (NIV): “At that time Jesus said, ‘I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.’”
Basically what I get out of that message is we should not feel or experience God in worship, if we do then we are deceived! Imagine if a cessationist made the same concession with marriage that a man is never to feel anything for his wife!
IM SO SO SO THANKFUL THAT JESUS SET ME FREE FROM THIS DEMONIC DECEPTION. YEARS OF FREEDOM FROM DRUG ADDICTION BECAUSE OF THE SUPERNATURAL ENCOUNTERS I HAVE HAD WITH GOD ❤❤❤ I WILL WORSHIP FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE BECAUSE OF HIS AMAZONG GRACE ❤❤
This cessationism is blasphemous to the God of Heaven. It is simply a heresy. We should pray for those who are this blinded to God's word. This is Phariseeism 2.0. The fruit of cessationism is not of God, especially pride. Find time to pray for those you know who are being deceived by cessationism heresy.
In practical terms, this man id one of the "dead men walking." Holy Spirit, surprise them with an experience they won't forget.
Jesus said where two or more gather together in my name, there I will also be
It’s funny that the Bible warns against legalism and cessationists often look like lawyers.
Maybe they forgot that Jesus Himself said we are to worship God with all our heart, soul and mind. They are only concerned with worshipping with the mind.
Wow! This fellow has never experienced the Lord and he admits it publicly! Condemning others who actually feel His Presence exposes this fellow! May He actually open His heart to the Lord who is real! Reading the scripture brings you into a beautiful experience of the Lord! Thank you Daniel for addressing this!
This is unbelievable that the cessationist went to the extreme of completely denying the emotion and experience of God presence! God is a personal God, a God who loves us and embrace us as sons and daughters.
Cessationalism is really (idol) worshipping an angry God, a disciplinarian God who has no feelings.
The time is coming when those who deny the gifts will find themselves without recourse. It is frankly sad that Cessationists deny the felt presence of God in their lives, but it does explain their lack of love, joy and peace, and why their 'heresy hunters' so gleefully chop the Brethren to bits with their uncontrolled tongues.They are the modern day Sadducees, 'having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power' Scripyure tells us to .... Avoid such people.
Hmm good point. Cessationism really reminds me of the five foolish virgins. Virgin in deed, but not wise at heart.
He is a living God He is a creator by nature
They make it sound like He died and left us a book to go by
Aside from the issue of salvation, cessationists are laboring in a spirit of unbelief. "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." 1Corinthians 4:20 "Because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction..." 1 Thessalonians 1:5 Pray for our cessationist brethren. We need a solid joining of the WORD and POWER in the American church. I am thankful that over the past 50 years I have seen Acts 2:28 realized in mine and many other lives: "You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence."
4:45 cessationists are the ones who have redefined the gifts. continuationists literally simply believe in the continuation of the Bible's teaching on the gifts. nothing more, nothing less.
Where there is Holy Spirit there we can sense the presence of God.
I have friends who used to be Church of Christ missionaries to Africa for about 13 years. They were cessationists until they went to an anniversary celebration for a Pentecostal church in a neighboring town - surprise, surprise, surprise, they received Holy Spirit. They couldn't tell their sponsoring congregation or they would have been kicked out.
I would be genuinely concerned for anyone that would say that they "worship" the God of the Universe, and have never felt anything!!!!
Our faith isnt based on experiences or feelings, but they are apart of the process by default, and testified by other peoples experiences in Scripture!
Daniel taking a sip of the cessationist tears
Why do they always limit God. And also make it make sense why God would stop doing miracles and gifts of the spirit after acts? Why? what is a sound biblical argument for that? Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: -- Does it suddenly start back up again? make it make sense to be a Cessationist
"Martha you are busy with many things, but Mary has chosen better"
Mary chose better because she chose to sit and listen(true worship). Luke 10 38-41. Cessationists belive that its not that there are no miracles,but we believe that being born again is the greatest miracle and that the primary work of the Holy Spirit is to convict of sin. Go through the new testament and see what follows every time one of the apostles is filled with the Spirit..... its a sermon.
Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
branching out on this, but Evangelist Kolenda's channel has a playlist on experiencing the presence of God. It's called Experiencing God. Check the playlists. Those are short videos with great questions answered
Lord Almighty, the first guy holds PhD in Worship Ministry… and he never experienced God. We need to pray for people like that brothers and sisters, so they open their hearts for the Holy Spirit. And open their spiritual vision.
Cessationism and especially in it's Reformed expression can be so dry, dull, dour and sterile and little more than a cerebral faith. The fella featured in the video being commented on by Daniel is even bemoaning other cessationists who stress experiencing God in worship saying they copied it from the pentecostal/charismatics. Rather than being governed by Scripture for all their talk of Sola Scriptura (which I emphatically uphold), this extreme position is marked more by what the continuationists are for, we should be against. I know a lot of cessationists will recoil at such and say this is a misrepresentation but that is what they tend to do in their broad brushing exposes of pentecostal/charismatics, picking out the very worst examples. I certainly do reject the excesses of charismania or hyper-charismaticism but there are continuationists who stand alone on the Word of God, believe the promises and expect in faith with God doing wondrous things in response exceeding what they ask or think of Him. Now, that is Sola Scriptura in operation and the living faith we are called to.
We must not "sense" tbe Holy Spirit. If we do feel "love joy peace" we must fix our minds on something else until that suspicious emotions go away. We must be perfectly impassive like Hindu mystics. We must not interpret joy to be a feeling as in:
11You will make known to me the way of life; In Your presence is FULLNESS OF JOY: In Your right hand there are PLEASURES FOREVER (Psalm 16:11).
Cessationists change PLEASURES FOREVER into mentally satisfactory propopositions. Tell that to your bride and see how much she is pleased with it.
I have a whole journal dedicated to encounters with the Hollyspirt
I have a very informative and systematic presentation of worshiping from this man we only parted ways when he insisted on denying the experiential aspect of our relationship with God
Psalms 22:3 says the Lord inhabits the praises of Israel (the word for enthrones means to dwell and sit down in hebrew)
I am pretty sure King David felt God’s presence when he sang the Psalms. 😂 come on cesessionists.
Why does cessationism make God out to be the Heavenly deadbeat Father
“He loves you, he just doesn’t want to be around you or be involved in your life”
*the book of Psalms has entered the chat*
Classical deism has mutated into modern-day cessationism.
Bro that was a hard close
people READ YOUR BIBLES!! Dont allow anyone to decieve you!!
In His Presence is fullness of joy??? Not biblical?!!!
Exactly!
Amen to that Rom 15:13 talks about being filled with joy and peace.
It is interesting that Cessationists are against anything “experience”, but yet their entire cessation theology is based on experience - the fact that they don’t EXPERIENCE much miracles like in Bible days.
They use their low experiencing of the miraculous to show why the miraculous cannot happen like it did in Bible days. They always defend their position by saying things like “well we do not observe(experience) such miracles happen today, so that means God doesn’t will to do them again”. Then they wrest the scripture to support that observation. That’s a first appeal to experience rather than to scripture on the their part.
Yet, if a charismatic mentions an experience he/she has had, the cessationist will tell such a person that he/she is not keeping to Sola Scriptura and should not appeal to experience.
The contradiction in Cessationist theology is that they use the very same thing they reject to support their position - EXPERIENCE
So this teaching has been passed down for generations, like many others. So what's God's purpose of it all?
The Cessationist position on these clips are so extreme....No feeling in Worship? Tell that to King David...and let's just toss out the Psalms 🤔😔
Jews who don't even believe in Jesus have reports of more experiences with The Spirit of Christ than these guys. When that's the case, you KNOW you've done screwed up. 😅
You should compare firsts christians they had worship different, some catholics, orthodoxes and also Redeemed Zoomer says that wordhip(the modern pop music is similar to worship like Hillsong) is not this like Cessassionists similar to Doreen Virtue
It's all on the level of mental abstraction.
I know this maybe carnal… but I wouldn’t even be a believer if it wasn’t for intimacy with Holy Spirit.. that definitely involves feeling him.. lol he lives in me lol 😂 I’m literally his home.. why would I not feel him?!
Cessationists almost idolise the bible.
He totally twisted what was said.
Scripture contradicts the claim against feelings in that cessationist movie. To begin with, the Holy Spirit is called the Comfortet in John 14, 15, and 16. We need to get back to the TRUE word of God, which is in the KJV translation. All modern English Bible translations have been polluted by the New Age movement.
Father, Son and Holy Bible😂😂😂
🥹🫀
😂
May as well believe that no spirits exist. Or do they hold more higher status for the demonic spirits than the Holy Spirit?
They're even blaspheming against the Holy Spirit by what they're stating in that video.. I hope they realise the seriousness of such a thing.
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
Hebrews 13:15
Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.
Old Testament explains singing and bowing down to the lord as a form of worship in Psalm 95
1. Imagine looking at Matthew 7:21-23 and thinking it only related to the apostles and Jesus' disciples, noone else. That would not make sense in itself to only address a small amount of people.
2. When did it stop in the apostolic age? Can they give a specific time? E.g. with which disciple or apostle? If they say Paul. How do they know there weren't other disciples around at that time? We're they witnesses to the gifts stopping or something?
3. The Great Commission was when Christ had risen and he appeared, stating what we should do in his name as he. Nowhere does Christ say he will cease the gifts.
Can put more scriptures but anyway.
Has it ever occurred to any of you guys that instead of engaging in these endless, pointless debates, your time might be better spent aiding the poor, the sick, and the imprisoned? Just a thought.
Correct doctrine is important. What makes you think they are not also caring for the other needs?
@@miriambartley6622 What makes me think the needs of the poor, the sick, and imprisoned are not being cared for? Visit a homeless encampment, a nursing home, or a prison and you will find out. Think of how different things might be if the time taken to produce untold numbers of CZcams videos on the pros and cons of cessationism were spent in Christian charity.
@@markkozlowski3674tell that to calvinists that spend their time on CZcams talking about people out of bitterness and not by the spirit of God
to whom are you actually asking this question. or maybe saying this to the people in the comment or Daniel and his ministry?
@@Slash31415 I am asking it to anyone who wishes to ponder the point.