Poldovico Apparently, if you're stood on York's city walls and you see a Scottish man walking towards them you are still legally allowed to shoot him. I am not sure how well that would be received but apparently the law stands. Not sure about Frenchmen though. Arg... think they've had enough of shooting this week :(.
+Random Stranger It was because the Longbow was primarily used against the French noble armies. The French were primary targets for the Longbow. It was made with them in mind. And it was extremely effective when a few thousand arrows were fired into 25 square metre kill zones during each individual volley - which usually tended to be where some of the Frenchmen were. So, he was just making a historical pun. The English of today have very little against the French, if anything at all.
Lol ! I suppose so. But, English folk have always had leftist collective masses employed by imperial-politico conglomerate type folk. So big picture Britain is still a financial influencial powerhouse, within which are a collective "we are the people" who are seeking and maybe given jobs and activities to further the interests of economy, whatever that means. It changes through time in the minds of many as they are often dependent on statements found in the press in order for them to imagine to know what "things" are. Lol! So in a way they are the same as always, I reckon. Though, there is a creeping to the left which seems invisible to those encapsulated and dwelling there. Which is weird.
I´d argue that hitting a frenchman with your arrow is a waste of an arrow and i´d really feel bad for that arrow for having to touch a man of the white flag.
When I visited Warwick castle (about 10 years ago), there was a 'traditional' fletcher on-site, selling to tourists. He explained to me that beeswax was used on the actual arrow tips, because those pesky Frenchmen started using more-strikingly curved plate armour, which caused traditional arrows to glance off, as well as ruining all that hard work put into arrows designed to punch through mail. The wax would force the arrow to stick, and although force was lost due to the wax absorbing a portion of it, the remaining force was directed straight through the arrow tip, for maximum impact. It was basically a trick designed to attack French knights cheaply, without specialised arrows. Just thought that was interesting.
The Stoned Videogame Nerd Hey I genuinely didn't think that a simple concept like that would still be applied to a more modern warfare... thanks for sharing! And it does mean that the base idea can practically work.
The Stoned Videogame Nerd capped shells are actually british, dual cap shells have a cap made of thin metal to increase aerodynamics and a lead cap to flatten, this makes them great against sloped armour but against hard flat armour they are fairly useless, that is why russians commenly used apcr because most german designs are flat with no sloping, however HEAT and APDS are more effective but more expensive alternatives to both capped shells and apcr shells
The Stoned Videogame Nerd the germans had 2 types of heat, one that wasn't as hot and had more copper for more damge and one with less copper and more heat for Penetration, and for longer barreled guns they used less powder, and HEAT and APDS were not very effective until the Vietnam Era, for ww2 capped shells and APCR were much more effective in WW2 but not after the technology was perfected
I've just recently started watching your videos (being led here by Varg Vikerness of all people), and I must say this is the most perfect balance of hard science and your own interpretation of the data that I've yet seen. People like you are what makes this cat video sharing medium great! Many salutes.
Thutil They cauterized wounds knowing that it had to be done for some reason. I they knew it was mainly to stop the bleeding; however, they did know that infection set in if they didn't do it also. Hence why they would chop of limbs and such to prevent spreading.
+Thutil something that kills you is not undetectable. the whole reason fire became so popular is because people noticed that eating raw food made you sick. If people truly had no idea what made them sick there would be allot more shit eating throughout history.
Forwards-curving sharpened crescents were used, certainly. There were many weird and wonderful heads, many of which we do not know the use of. A double prong, like a fork would not penetrate well, would be difficult to balance well, and I can see little use for in war.
yep, Lindy, your one of the smartest guys on CZcams, and I have all respect for you bro, but a bow (especially a long bow or other primitive bow) just would not work at all without that bending your observing. this is the archer's paradox. I'd like to see your video on the topic.
hexadecimil sorry but that's not true, a bow can work just fine without the "archer's paradox" almost all modern "Compound bows" do. even "a long bow or other primitive bow" could still be accurate without using "the paradox" it would just be weird to aim 0_0
Nathan Stoddard compound bows can becouse they shoot 'through' the bow, longbows can't. it's the only way it can get around the bow in a straight line.
The comment is six years old, but I think commenting is worth it. It isn’t neccessarily inaccurate, you just have to put on big enough fletching and the arrow will hit the target (when the fletching is intact and not wet for example). but this forced stabilisation costs a lot of energy, since the fletching is always straightening the arrows course and so slowing it down. So the correct spine of the arrow (bendiness of the arrow) for the bow-archer-drawlenght is the most efficient option. You can play with heavier tips and stiffer arrows or lighter tips and weaker arrows to get either more force and stability or more speed, straighter flight curve but less stable arrow. An arrow with the perfect spine shot with flawless technique will fly dead straight without fletching and therefore minimal energy-loss. It would be still bending archers-paradoxish while flying though.
@@michaelrobl3531 I think what I meant 6 years ago is the fact that you cannot get rid of the archer's paradox, therefore it should not be seen as a inefficiency, but rather a property of the arrow. Lindy towards the end goes on a rant about how some energy is wasted because the arrow leaves the bow bent, but I didn't think it's really possible to achieve for the arrow to leave "straight" instead of "bent" or that it would make much of a difference either way :) Anyways thanks for commenting because I watched the video and it was still as informative as 6 years ago, good old lindybeige!
Everythingguy The frenchmen feels the E=1/2mv^2 and P=mv. Arrows, though have a lot more P than E, unlike bullets. Why did I say that previous sentence, I have no idea.
+Savage Porkchop Kinda, at he velocity regime most arrows travel at, momentum and hardness of the head tend to be more important. High velocity rounds effectiveness is more linked to kinetic energy (well, velocity actually) since the closer an impactor hits to the materials it's impacting's speed of sound, the less the materials hardness, toughness and strength matters and it starts becoming a matter of impactors length and it's density relative to the impacted materials.
Yano, I always wondered how such small light shafts that I've seen in medieval movies and TV would ever have killed people as well as they seemed to when they seemed so fragile. But that war arrow. That thing is fucking massive, and I can easily see that puncturing flesh when fired from a proper war bow. Thanks hollywood.
I think the noise is the microphone (separate from camera) rocking on the chair I put it on when the floor shakes as I move about. Next time I shall put it on a sweater. This also explains why my voice gets fainetr when i am closer to the camera, rather than, as is more usual, louder.
'... or a Frenchman' :) I suppose the arrows are emblazoned with the company motif of two crossed dead Frenchmen on a background of a mound of dead Frenchmen motif.
bending of arrow is called "archers paradox" & the fishtailing continues for considerable distance...Arrow has to "bend around" the riser of the bow & took a while to straighten out in flight...this is one reason for the modern, "center shot" type of arrow rest/riser, where the arrow rest is recessed as near as possible to the centerline of the bow....far less of the fishtailing action from a center shot bow.
Actually, the "bending" or "flexing" of the arrow ISN'T caused by going around the riser. It's caused by Newton's 3rd Law Of Motion; "An object at rest tends to remain at rest. An object in motion tends to remain in motion". The arrow starts off at rest on the string. When released, the back of the arrow is moving, but the front doesn't want to . The back has to overcome the inertia of the front, so the arrow flexes, and continues to flex for a good distance downrange before finally flying straight. Assuming that it hasn't been stopped by a target first. Incidentally, the force that makes the arrow flex gets transmitted to the target when it's hit by the arrow
jabames a He is a Brit. He likes to talk about all the battles the English won during the 100 years war and never mention those they lost. He also likes to say that 6th Generation vassal to French King and mostly French by blood William the Conqueror "was not French".
Brilliant enlightenning archery info ... Thank you Sir Lindybeige, I learned a lot from your "uncommonly long rambling" in this video , I wish to "ramble on" for much longer
well, historically we've been at war with them on and off for almost a millennium. we only actually started to get along in the last few hundred years.
An no one actually get on with Danes... Ever... They fail to swallow their damned porridge, so no one can hear what on earth they're trying to say... Damnable goose lovers.
I rather miss these shorter videos. Sure the longer videos are great in that he can give more details and exposition but the shorter videos are good for bite sized information.
once again a wonderful video. I saw some statements about the archer's paradox in the comments section. simply put, the bowstring is along the centerline of the bow. the arrow is at the side of the bow. when the string is released and the string approaches the bow, the nock of the arrow is also drawn to the center of the bow. that forces the head of the arrow sideways, away from the point of aim. the paradox part is that, using geometry it is easy to prove that an archer can not hit a target he aims at... yet he does. an arrow must bend to be able to hit what you are aiming at. the arrow actually bends around the bow and so flies true to the target. there is an excellent video on that very subject, including slow motion of an archer hitting a thrown aspirin tablet, done by Destin at Smarter Every Day.
The dolphining or porposing of the arrow helps maintain a straight flight. Also when the tip hits, it helps dig in creating a larger hole. As for the Beeswax and arrow tips, fletchers had glue in the pot anyway. After putting the tip on, they would apply a thin layer of glue where the tip and shaft met. On impact, the glue would break (remember the flexing motion of the arrow) and the tip would look for a new home. BigBowBrum has lots of amazing videos on midieval archery. He destroys plate and ringmail and proves the power of the bow.
you need to get the correct "spine" (stiffness) for the bow you are using. if it is too bendy it will snake along to its target and lose range and accuracy because of lost energy. similarly, with an overly stiff arrow it will travel at an angle, slightly sideways to the direction of flight and will also lose accuracy and range also
Yes, and I was keen to see if arrows do the same, but it seems that they do not. An atlatl can because the user moves forwards with it, whereas an archer stays still. I was considering doing a video on the atlatl, but I see that there are already better ones than I would have done on CZcams.
You are right about the arrows flexing and leaving the string bent. I trained archery with an english longbow, and besides choosing your poundage and length and whatnot, you also can choose which wood your arrows are made out of. Softer woods tend to curve around the bow more, so if your rest is on the left side, the arrows would prefer to go to the right. And vice versa with the harder woods.
+John Smith "The Archers Juxtaposition" just dosent have the same ring to it. You could still kinda call it a paradox ... there is no 'perfect' answer you'll always end up with an arrow that is either a tad too stiff or a tad too soft as the wood continues to age/mature/warp .
Certainly. But I've seen a documentary film saying that sometimes archers would stick the point of their arrows into faeces or sthg to cause disease...don't know if that's actually true, but sounds probable to me
Cid Idengard I've probably watched that documentary. Maybe they've realized that wounds fester faster when arrows are stick into the ground. I doubt that they can do the same with an arrow design. They must make a design, test it on the enemy to see how much they fester then change it if not satisfied. It is not as easy as testing against an armor. These are my thoughts, I might be completely wrong about everything I've said.
the smell of dung is always a quite repelling sensation, you wouldn't want to be near it instincitively. Then there was this idea (not sure if in medival times, but I think so) of "miasma", foul gases and such to spread disease. So they maybe just put one and one together - doesn't seem too far fetched for me. And MAYBE they thought, "well, if my arrowhead has ridges, more shit will stick to it"
One day, one day... Since I have resolved to try to make two videos a week for a year, expect me to be scrambling for topics. I fear there may be barrel-scraping after a while.
It uses the same principle of stacking weight in a long rod behind the point - that's what I meant. I do not suggest that there were discarding sabot arrows.
If you are armored its likely the arrow didn't penetrate too far even if it did get though your armor and you probably wont want to push it though your chest or stomach and if the arrow doesn't have aggressive barbs you are going to do far more damage pushing it though than pulling it out even if you have to have someone get in there and get a hold of the arrow head.
jpavlvs They show both, if its deep enough, barbed and in an inconvenient area or in a limb away from the artery then push it through, else just pull it out. No one is going to push a shallow arrow through an area where it its going to hit an undamaged organ if it can just be pulled out.
I know human anatomy.. rather well.. and pushing it through sounds utterly insane. Maybe they'd do that in the fucking middle ages when surgery was a crap shoot and they didn't know dick about how the body actually worked, but I doubt it and any claims I'm skeptical of without proof. Pushing an arrow through, even after removing the fletching, would cause unfathomable amounts of additional damage to other internal organs and blood vessels that simply cutting the arrow head out wouldn't cause. I could see if the arrow is most of the way through and pulling it out might do more damage.. but otherwise.. absolutely not.
Effective in that they would still inconvenience and possibly harm the wearer, but the chainmail is effective in that it would often keep the wearer alive.
You may ramble all you like Luv. My Grandfather was from England and I loved to listen to him talk and hear that "Accent" of his and once in a while (More oft then not.) that same "Accent" will come out of my mouth and my friends at "The Minnesota Renaissance Festival" just love it when that happens because they know for a fact that I am not faking it like they are and the "Accent" comes out a great bit more there. But all in all. I miss hearing a pure English voice like yours So. Keep on rambling on Luv..
This happened at Agincourt, but I know of no solid evidence that it was deliberate. The men were waiting in one place for a long time, and were suffering from dysentry, and they stuck their arrows in the ground ready for the battle... The French complained of poisoned arrows.
Really interesting videos... I already saw a few things about arrow tips but the thing with the shaft is new to me. And is good to see more of your videos. I really like them ^^
"With a stiffer arrow, you would waste less energy." True as far as that goes. I build my own arrows, so indulge me. The stiffness of an arrow is called it's "spine." If an arrow is too weak (under-spined) it will either shatter or fly sideways with the point to one direction. Make an arrow too stiff (over-spined) and it will fly sideways with the point to the other. I have been shooting my arrows through a sheet of paper and reading the tear it makes. I will trim off a bit of length, re-attach the arrow pile and try again. Repeat until I have one tidy hole. If an arrow shatters, it doesn't go a few feet ahead of the archer. The hand that is holding the bow manages to catch most of the flying splinters.
Arrows were not deliberately made flexible because of the paradox. Other factors apply, such as the straightening effect of the fletchings. Also, shooting off to the left with stiff arrows would be consistent, and so could be compensated for.
That is _a_ reason, but arrows bend even when shot from bows where the string and arrow rest are in line with the movement of the launch, for the reasons I described.
The spring in the arrow is what allows it to travel straight at all. Without it, the offset between the back of the arrow sitting on the string (center of the bow) and the shaft resting on the bow (left of the bow) would cause the arrow to fly wildly off course to the left. The arrow bends around the bow during release, causing it to literally bend around the bow and travel as a wave in the proper direction (at your target). The concept is known as the Archer's Paradox.
As a frenchman, this video makes me a little bit uneasy.
Hehehe, here's to the longest time of peace the French and English have ever experienced with each other! :D
You could try surrendering?
Nightstalker1813 who are you again??
Nightstalker1813
awesome!
GregTom2 That's OK, since you kicked their asses in the Hundred Years' War.
"a tree, or a french men, or the ground..." hahahaha
+Taylor Newberry :) Yeah, I love it too when he keeps saying that "or a frenchman" LoL
+Taylor Newberry I'd love to hear his take on the battle of Agincourt xD
+Toshi Buntaro He is an englishman.
... oh God imagine English cusine without the French influence ...
A popular misconception.....we have some pretty good foods without french tendencies
I enjoy how you just casually say things like "slams into a Frenchman"
I laughed out loud at that one and came down to the comments to share the laugh.
Breaking news: Frenchmen are now grouped along with inanimate objects.
Also, they should be shot with medieval longbows whenever possible.
Poldovico Apparently, if you're stood on York's city walls and you see a Scottish man walking towards them you are still legally allowed to shoot him. I am not sure how well that would be received but apparently the law stands. Not sure about Frenchmen though. Arg... think they've had enough of shooting this week :(.
Watson's Mine
Too soon mate.
Mmm. Indeed.
Watson's Mine Tou can't kill the scottish if he doesn't have a bow and arrows.
"into a Frenchman"
"into a Frenchman"
"into a Frenchman"
"Frenchmen"
I'm noticing a trend. Favorite target? "Frenchman"
+Vedrit Mathias Isn't that everyone's favourite target?
It's low hanging fruit but it's such a good meal.
God i could listen to this guy explain shit all day.
Isn't his voice perfect for it though? :)
A Bunch of peasants charging at us... Archers! load Type-16.
Hold on.. wait, Knights overtaking them... Load Ap round instead.
+Anonymous surfer King Priam could have gotten away with just saying, "Archers!" I seen it in a movie once!
+christosvoskresye FIRE!
Sire, you mean fire arrows? Or a fire spell? We don't have anything to fire I'm afraid, sire.
Tony Montana O dam there is a tnak rolling out. Load Apfsds lads!
"Enemy knights out in the open! 12 o clock 300 meters and closing! Loud AP! 3 volleys! Rapid timed fire on my command!"
"FIRE!!!"
"its very big, massive and hard" Lindybeige
"Look at the difference in the thickness of the shaft...."
"When eventually it slams into a Frenchman, you want the mass of all that wood pushing in to the Frenchman"
"one is considerably thicker that the other....."
36 French men disliked this video
Or 18 French men and 18 trees.
what makes you say that
He's not an idiot
ninny65 do you mean he's not an idiot so he wouldn't vote brexit or the other way round
a macdonald Judging by the types of videos he makes and by his personality, what do you think
There was also a pommel head arrow used if u want to end the frenchmen rightly
;)
+Alex K but you had to screw vigorously before you could end him rightly
stephan cooper u can get free pommels from trees and dead frenchmen
+Alex K Is that not essentially what the square arrow-head was? A flying pommel on a stick?
HaniiPuppy It is not a true pommel unless unscrewed from a sword and screwed to the arrow.
I wonder if anyone just stuck a bunch of arrows in their armor so everyone would just assume they're arrow-proof.
That is....... The best....... Idea I have ever heard, you sir are a military genius :D
Probably a *Frenchman...* 😁😁😁😁
"the head will stay in the ground, or the tree, or the frenchman."
he has something against frenchmen....do note men....everyone loves the girls
+Random Stranger
It was because the Longbow was primarily used against the French noble armies. The French were primary targets for the Longbow.
It was made with them in mind. And it was extremely effective when a few thousand arrows were fired into 25 square metre kill zones during each individual volley - which usually tended to be where some of the Frenchmen were.
So, he was just making a historical pun. The English of today have very little against the French, if anything at all.
+FartingFoulFarts this noise:- Probably because they're becoming so much like the French :(
Lol ! I suppose so. But, English folk have always had leftist collective masses employed by imperial-politico conglomerate type folk. So big picture Britain is still a financial influencial powerhouse, within which are a collective "we are the people" who are seeking and maybe given jobs and activities to further the interests of economy, whatever that means. It changes through time in the minds of many as they are often dependent on statements found in the press in order for them to imagine to know what "things" are. Lol!
So in a way they are the same as always, I reckon. Though, there is a creeping to the left which seems invisible to those encapsulated and dwelling there. Which is weird.
Usually in French Backsides as they Formate > > >
"Or the frenchmen" Made me laugh :)
He realy loves frenchmen...
I think this is the consequence of studying the Middle Ages from an English perspective.
Yup seems so :)
No' it's just joke :) Very funny indeed :)
Or it could be to do with Crecy and Agincourt where archers killed many a frenchman
Haha, "points about arrows".
I mean if your not hitting a french man with your arrow it's kinda a waste of am arrow.
I´d argue that hitting a frenchman with your arrow is a waste of an arrow and i´d really feel bad for that arrow for having to touch a man of the white flag.
lol
TheNejD your not English if you don’t like the French and your not French if you don’t like the English
Lol
What else are arrows for? I’m confused.
So you can't return it.......... and you got the shaft? Sounds like Comcast customer service.
People will think yur kidding. He's not
When I visited Warwick castle (about 10 years ago), there was a 'traditional' fletcher on-site, selling to tourists. He explained to me that beeswax was used on the actual arrow tips, because those pesky Frenchmen started using more-strikingly curved plate armour, which caused traditional arrows to glance off, as well as ruining all that hard work put into arrows designed to punch through mail. The wax would force the arrow to stick, and although force was lost due to the wax absorbing a portion of it, the remaining force was directed straight through the arrow tip, for maximum impact. It was basically a trick designed to attack French knights cheaply, without specialised arrows.
Just thought that was interesting.
The Stoned Videogame Nerd Hey I genuinely didn't think that a simple concept like that would still be applied to a more modern warfare... thanks for sharing! And it does mean that the base idea can practically work.
The Stoned Videogame Nerd actually the germans are the ones with surface hardened armour, the Russians used rolled homogeneous armour
The Stoned Videogame Nerd capped shells are actually british, dual cap shells have a cap made of thin metal to increase aerodynamics and a lead cap to flatten, this makes them great against sloped armour but against hard flat armour they are fairly useless, that is why russians commenly used apcr because most german designs are flat with no sloping, however HEAT and APDS are more effective but more expensive alternatives to both capped shells and apcr shells
The Stoned Videogame Nerd the germans had 2 types of heat, one that wasn't as hot and had more copper for more damge and one with less copper and more heat for Penetration, and for longer barreled guns they used less powder, and HEAT and APDS were not very effective until the Vietnam Era, for ww2 capped shells and APCR were much more effective in WW2 but not after the technology was perfected
***** I'm aware that most carried more high explosive but in late war the perfered round for shooting the front of tigers and such was apcr
You should watch "the archer's paradox" by smarter everyday. he addresses this oscillation of the arrow.
+
funny considering both profile pics
Was about to write the same video recommendation but looks like there's no need.
Is that where the expression "getting the shaft" comes from?
Apparently the *French* use that expression the most...😝
Type 16....Shit, the Chinese have been making those too ? :(
Maximus Alexis Chinese factories - For all your frenchmen impaling needs.
lol!
"...and it lands in a tree, or a Frenchmen, or the ground.."
***** I think everybody does... unless they don't understand English... like the French.
daddyleon I'm a Frenchman and I approve of this message. :D
NihonNiv xD
*****
Enjoyed? Aw why you be hatin? xD
anyway we win guyanne (aquitaine) and normandy :p, so i understand the hate ^^
i paused this video and got up twice because i thought i heard knocking -_- 0:56 1:44
Me too!
I've just recently started watching your videos (being led here by Varg Vikerness of all people), and I must say this is the most perfect balance of hard science and your own interpretation of the data that I've yet seen. People like you are what makes this cat video sharing medium great! Many salutes.
"Could their purpose have been to harbour germs in the grooves..."
Not before the Germ Theory of Disease.
And yet, one does not have to understand biology to know that one needs to water crops for them to grow.
BeepingMetal or dead cows over the walls made for no fun.
***** If fire was completely undetectable, then yes. You can have an empirical understanding of something, but you need to know it exists first.
Thutil They cauterized wounds knowing that it had to be done for some reason. I they knew it was mainly to stop the bleeding; however, they did know that infection set in if they didn't do it also. Hence why they would chop of limbs and such to prevent spreading.
+Thutil something that kills you is not undetectable. the whole reason fire became so popular is because people noticed that eating raw food made you sick. If people truly had no idea what made them sick there would be allot more shit eating throughout history.
HAhahahaha "A tree, a frenchmen, or the ground." Love that bit...
that "inefficiency" is the cause of the archer's paradox
But...once we bag a Frenchman how do we go about field dressing it?
Haute couteur, of course. With frills and ribbons.
Forwards-curving sharpened crescents were used, certainly. There were many weird and wonderful heads, many of which we do not know the use of. A double prong, like a fork would not penetrate well, would be difficult to balance well, and I can see little use for in war.
a point about arrows: they are usually pointy. boom.
Wait, WHAT?!
SHIT! I think I'm going to need a whole new set of arrows...
Jane Murphy There are such things as blunt arrows. They are called Birding Arrows.
OvAppolyon I know that... I was going along with the joke. :\
"Sire - what arrow doth ye wish me provide thee?"
"Type 16 will suffice good chap."
Lindybeige 6:20 the archer's paradox.
Nathan Stoddard Smarter every day?
Roque Moreno That's what I was thinking :)
yep, Lindy, your one of the smartest guys on CZcams, and I have all respect for you bro, but a bow (especially a long bow or other primitive bow) just would not work at all without that bending your observing. this is the archer's paradox. I'd like to see your video on the topic.
hexadecimil
sorry but that's not true, a bow can work just fine without the "archer's paradox" almost all modern "Compound bows" do. even "a long bow or other primitive bow" could still be accurate without using "the paradox" it would just be weird to aim 0_0
Nathan Stoddard
compound bows can becouse they shoot 'through' the bow, longbows can't. it's the only way it can get around the bow in a straight line.
your channel has answered so many questions i never knew i wanted answered. Thanks!
archer's paradox is the reason why stiffer arrows would be very inaccurate, so the saved energy would be delivered to a tree and not a frenchman.
The comment is six years old, but I think commenting is worth it. It isn’t neccessarily inaccurate, you just have to put on big enough fletching and the arrow will hit the target (when the fletching is intact and not wet for example). but this forced stabilisation costs a lot of energy, since the fletching is always straightening the arrows course and so slowing it down. So the correct spine of the arrow (bendiness of the arrow) for the bow-archer-drawlenght is the most efficient option. You can play with heavier tips and stiffer arrows or lighter tips and weaker arrows to get either more force and stability or more speed, straighter flight curve but less stable arrow. An arrow with the perfect spine shot with flawless technique will fly dead straight without fletching and therefore minimal energy-loss. It would be still bending archers-paradoxish while flying though.
@@michaelrobl3531 I think what I meant 6 years ago is the fact that you cannot get rid of the archer's paradox, therefore it should not be seen as a inefficiency, but rather a property of the arrow. Lindy towards the end goes on a rant about how some energy is wasted because the arrow leaves the bow bent, but I didn't think it's really possible to achieve for the arrow to leave "straight" instead of "bent" or that it would make much of a difference either way :)
Anyways thanks for commenting because I watched the video and it was still as informative as 6 years ago, good old lindybeige!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. F=ma can be really brutal.
+Michael Morris Well, a part of the brutality is linked to E=1/2mv^2.
+Happy Koala Welll I suppose the F=MA is the start of the brutality, but the "frenchmen" only sees the E=1/2mv^2 part of it
Everythingguy
The frenchmen feels the E=1/2mv^2 and P=mv. Arrows, though have a lot more P than E, unlike bullets. Why did I say that previous sentence, I have no idea.
+Savage Porkchop Kinda, at he velocity regime most arrows travel at, momentum and hardness of the head tend to be more important.
High velocity rounds effectiveness is more linked to kinetic energy (well, velocity actually) since the closer an impactor hits to the materials it's impacting's speed of sound, the less the materials hardness, toughness and strength matters and it starts becoming a matter of impactors length and it's density relative to the impacted materials.
+Savage Porkchop F=ma, P=mv, and E=(1/2)mv^2 are all the same equation just thought from different differential perspectives.
Yano, I always wondered how such small light shafts that I've seen in medieval movies and TV would ever have killed people as well as they seemed to when they seemed so fragile. But that war arrow. That thing is fucking massive, and I can easily see that puncturing flesh when fired from a proper war bow. Thanks hollywood.
Why is your temperature in Fahrenheit? Don't we Europeans use Celsius everywhere???
+Iam Cleaver The U.K. implemented metric then gave up went back to imperial.
Luke DS WHEN???????
Iam Cleaver I don't know exact dates but it was a couple of decades ago give or take a few years.
Luke DS When I lived in UK, 4 years ago. They used Celsius. Why the hell would you ever use Fahrenheit?
Iam Cleaver Some people in the U.K. use metric and most use the English imperial system.
"Type 16" sounds like a naming convention out of WW2 LOL.
Lost my shit at Frenchmen being the example of who's being shot with it
I think the noise is the microphone (separate from camera) rocking on the chair I put it on when the floor shakes as I move about. Next time I shall put it on a sweater. This also explains why my voice gets fainetr when i am closer to the camera, rather than, as is more usual, louder.
"A tree, or a Frenchman, or the ground"
I keep cracking up when he mentions Frenchmen. More so than I should.
'... or a Frenchman' :)
I suppose the arrows are emblazoned with the company motif of two crossed dead Frenchmen on a background of a mound of dead Frenchmen motif.
bending of arrow is called "archers paradox" & the fishtailing continues for considerable distance...Arrow has to "bend around" the riser of the bow & took a while to straighten out in flight...this is one reason for the modern, "center shot" type of arrow rest/riser, where the arrow rest is recessed as near as possible to the centerline of the bow....far less of the fishtailing action from a center shot bow.
Actually, the "bending" or "flexing" of the arrow ISN'T caused by going around the riser. It's caused by Newton's 3rd Law Of Motion; "An object at rest tends to remain at rest. An object in motion tends to remain in motion". The arrow starts off at rest on the string. When released, the back of the arrow is moving, but the front doesn't want to . The back has to overcome the inertia of the front, so the arrow flexes, and continues to flex for a good distance downrange before finally flying straight. Assuming that it hasn't been stopped by a target first. Incidentally, the force that makes the arrow flex gets transmitted to the target when it's hit by the arrow
This happens with center-shot bows as well as straight bows
"You twang it, it lands in a tree, or a Frenchmen, or the ground"👌☺️
The notion is to upload two videos a week for a year. We'll see how long this resolution lasts...
I take it he doesn't like Frenchmen xD
jabames a He is a Brit. He likes to talk about all the battles the English won during the 100 years war and never mention those they lost. He also likes to say that 6th Generation vassal to French King and mostly French by blood William the Conqueror "was not French".
Maybe just DEAD ones...😁
jabames a who does?
We germans certainly dont either
Specfically designed fro frenchmen though. Dammit !
Yes, I was considering doing a video about the atlatl, but good ones on CZcams already exist.
Brilliant enlightenning archery info ... Thank you Sir Lindybeige, I learned a lot from your "uncommonly long rambling" in this video , I wish to "ramble on" for much longer
He's so English!
I guess the french are to the british what the swedes are to the danes xD
well, historically we've been at war with them on and off for almost a millennium. we only actually started to get along in the last few hundred years.
An no one actually get on with Danes... Ever... They fail to swallow their damned porridge, so no one can hear what on earth they're trying to say... Damnable goose lovers.
Norwegians love us, germans love us, everybody loves us, just not russia and sweden
Mathias Caspersen yah, we germans dont mind you.
This video is perfect ammunition for explain to my players why they cannot waste game time recovering arrows! Thank you!
2013 video description: "An uncommonly long ramble, even for me." Length: 8m29s.
Lindybeige's 2019 Gladiators video (SMK60O695r4): 1h50m1s.
I rather miss these shorter videos. Sure the longer videos are great in that he can give more details and exposition but the shorter videos are good for bite sized information.
So the arrows with a sort of cutting edge works kind of like needles made for leather of denim? Cleaver...
Poor frenchmen D:
once again a wonderful video. I saw some statements about the archer's paradox in the comments section. simply put, the bowstring is along the centerline of the bow. the arrow is at the side of the bow. when the string is released and the string approaches the bow, the nock of the arrow is also drawn to the center of the bow. that forces the head of the arrow sideways, away from the point of aim. the paradox part is that, using geometry it is easy to prove that an archer can not hit a target he aims at... yet he does. an arrow must bend to be able to hit what you are aiming at. the arrow actually bends around the bow and so flies true to the target. there is an excellent video on that very subject, including slow motion of an archer hitting a thrown aspirin tablet, done by Destin at Smarter Every Day.
The dolphining or porposing of the arrow helps maintain a straight flight. Also when the tip hits, it helps dig in creating a larger hole.
As for the Beeswax and arrow tips, fletchers had glue in the pot anyway. After putting the tip on, they would apply a thin layer of glue where the tip and shaft met. On impact, the glue would break (remember the flexing motion of the arrow) and the tip would look for a new home.
BigBowBrum has lots of amazing videos on midieval archery. He destroys plate and ringmail and proves the power of the bow.
you need to get the correct "spine" (stiffness) for the bow you are using. if it is too bendy it will snake along to its target and lose range and accuracy because of lost energy.
similarly, with an overly stiff arrow it will travel at an angle, slightly sideways to the direction of flight and will also lose accuracy and range also
Katana can deflect arrow.
Wergvaldys Botagas lol
Wergvaldys Botagas Yeah, if the archers aiming right at it.
Wergvaldys Botagas all sword can
Wergvaldys Botagas Or you can throw a pommel at it.
Wergvaldys Botagas WTF man?
Yes, and I was keen to see if arrows do the same, but it seems that they do not. An atlatl can because the user moves forwards with it, whereas an archer stays still. I was considering doing a video on the atlatl, but I see that there are already better ones than I would have done on CZcams.
You are right about the arrows flexing and leaving the string bent. I trained archery with an english longbow, and besides choosing your poundage and length and whatnot, you also can choose which wood your arrows are made out of. Softer woods tend to curve around the bow more, so if your rest is on the left side, the arrows would prefer to go to the right. And vice versa with the harder woods.
Frenchman..., hilarious ;)
Have a search for 'The archer's paradox'. There are some good videos posted on that subject.
+Mahatma Coat You can't really call it a paradox if it's very clearly explained, but it is interesting.
+John Smith Agreed. Those weren't my words just the title of the video on the subject.
+John Smith "The Archers Juxtaposition" just dosent have the same ring to it.
You could still kinda call it a paradox ... there is no 'perfect' answer you'll always end up with an arrow that is either a tad too stiff or a tad too soft as the wood continues to age/mature/warp .
Yes, I didn't mean that the arrow came out of the other side of the Frenchman, just that you could get some shaft into him as well as the head.
Can we just appreciate what a magnificent title "Some Points About Arrows" is?
as far as I know germ was an unknown concept back then.
Certainly. But I've seen a documentary film saying that sometimes archers would stick the point of their arrows into faeces or sthg to cause disease...don't know if that's actually true, but sounds probable to me
ah, there's just another comment saying that below
Cid Idengard I've probably watched that documentary. Maybe they've realized that wounds fester faster when arrows are stick into the ground. I doubt that they can do the same with an arrow design. They must make a design, test it on the enemy to see how much they fester then change it if not satisfied. It is not as easy as testing against an armor.
These are my thoughts, I might be completely wrong about everything I've said.
the smell of dung is always a quite repelling sensation, you wouldn't want to be near it instincitively. Then there was this idea (not sure if in medival times, but I think so) of "miasma", foul gases and such to spread disease. So they maybe just put one and one together - doesn't seem too far fetched for me. And MAYBE they thought, "well, if my arrowhead has ridges, more shit will stick to it"
Cid Idengard if it is the dung they are fighting on fine. But I'm not sure.
into a frenchman.... :D...
One day, one day...
Since I have resolved to try to make two videos a week for a year, expect me to be scrambling for topics. I fear there may be barrel-scraping after a while.
It uses the same principle of stacking weight in a long rod behind the point - that's what I meant. I do not suggest that there were discarding sabot arrows.
You don't pull an arrow out. You push it through.
If you are armored its likely the arrow didn't penetrate too far even if it did get though your armor and you probably wont want to push it though your chest or stomach and if the arrow doesn't have aggressive barbs you are going to do far more damage pushing it though than pulling it out even if you have to have someone get in there and get a hold of the arrow head.
Except contemporary drawings show the surgeons pulling the arrow through the wound after they cut off the fletchings.
jpavlvs They show both, if its deep enough, barbed and in an inconvenient area or in a limb away from the artery then push it through, else just pull it out. No one is going to push a shallow arrow through an area where it its going to hit an undamaged organ if it can just be pulled out.
I know human anatomy.. rather well.. and pushing it through sounds utterly insane. Maybe they'd do that in the fucking middle ages when surgery was a crap shoot and they didn't know dick about how the body actually worked, but I doubt it and any claims I'm skeptical of without proof. Pushing an arrow through, even after removing the fletching, would cause unfathomable amounts of additional damage to other internal organs and blood vessels that simply cutting the arrow head out wouldn't cause.
I could see if the arrow is most of the way through and pulling it out might do more damage.. but otherwise.. absolutely not.
+RurikLoderr like the other guy said, barbed arrowheads.
Dear Lindybeige,
Could you please use degrees Celsius in your video so that the majority of the world gets it?
Thank you, a foreign viewer.
You can convert degrees online, but I know what you mean!
@@matthewwainwright8650 No doubt, he blames the French for the metric system.
Effective in that they would still inconvenience and possibly harm the wearer, but the chainmail is effective in that it would often keep the wearer alive.
They wore a padded leather suit underneath, and this suit had patches of mail on it to cover gaps in the plate, such as at the armpits.
You can never put arrows in Frenchmen. They are to busy surrendering.
Only after WWI.
Americans cant celebrate 4th of july in france. Everytime fireworks start going off all the french start surrendering lol
You may ramble all you like Luv. My Grandfather was from England and I loved to listen to him talk and hear that "Accent" of his and once in a while (More oft then not.) that same "Accent" will come out of my mouth and my friends at "The Minnesota Renaissance Festival" just love it when that happens because they know for a fact that I am not faking it like they are and the "Accent" comes out a great bit more there.
But all in all. I miss hearing a pure English voice like yours So. Keep on rambling on Luv..
Those are some beautiful arrows you have there ! First time viewer and a now subscribed follower, i look forward to watching the rest of your videos.
This happened at Agincourt, but I know of no solid evidence that it was deliberate. The men were waiting in one place for a long time, and were suffering from dysentry, and they stuck their arrows in the ground ready for the battle... The French complained of poisoned arrows.
he cracks me up every time he refers to "FRENCHMEN". : )
The Fahrenheit scale is easy to understand once you understand that body temperature is 100. It was developed for medical use.
I'm really liking these videos. Learning more about warfare every day!
Really interesting videos... I already saw a few things about arrow tips but the thing with the shaft is new to me.
And is good to see more of your videos. I really like them ^^
"With a stiffer arrow, you would waste less energy." True as far as that goes. I build my own arrows, so indulge me. The stiffness of an arrow is called it's "spine." If an arrow is too weak (under-spined) it will either shatter or fly sideways with the point to one direction. Make an arrow too stiff (over-spined) and it will fly sideways with the point to the other. I have been shooting my arrows through a sheet of paper and reading the tear it makes. I will trim off a bit of length, re-attach the arrow pile and try again. Repeat until I have one tidy hole.
If an arrow shatters, it doesn't go a few feet ahead of the archer. The hand that is holding the bow manages to catch most of the flying splinters.
I hope a long time! I really enjoy watching your videos.
Holy smokes. That's the greatest sweater I've ever seen. Similar to the tennis club scene in the movie trading places.
Folded cloth armors, great innovation and the idea is the basis of things like kevlar armor and modern plate carriers.
You got straight to the point and made some pretty good points about the points of arrows in your video, some points about arrows. Good job.
Heavier arrows do not travel far, but were preferred at short ranges when dealing with armoured targets.
Your videos are fantastic. Keep them coming please.
Nice that you tought the tree to be more important then the Frenchman.
Arrows were not deliberately made flexible because of the paradox. Other factors apply, such as the straightening effect of the fletchings. Also, shooting off to the left with stiff arrows would be consistent, and so could be compensated for.
"...On the ground, on the tree, on the frenchman or whatever it was..."
ahhaahha
great, very informing and interesting video.
That is _a_ reason, but arrows bend even when shot from bows where the string and arrow rest are in line with the movement of the launch, for the reasons I described.
"the tree or the ground or the Frenchman or whatever"
I am DYING over here, loool
you are totaly rightwith the stiffer arrow theory. you did a really good job. Greets from germany.
I just want to say that I'm a Frenchman and I really love your videos. :)
Carry on!
I doubt it very much.
The spring in the arrow is what allows it to travel straight at all. Without it, the offset between the back of the arrow sitting on the string (center of the bow) and the shaft resting on the bow (left of the bow) would cause the arrow to fly wildly off course to the left. The arrow bends around the bow during release, causing it to literally bend around the bow and travel as a wave in the proper direction (at your target). The concept is known as the Archer's Paradox.
I was considering doing a vid on the atlatl, but there are already good ones on CZcams about it.
If I ever get rich, I'll pay Lloyd to make a historically accurate medieval war movie.
I have one. A video about it one day. I hope to test it with pine resin.
I love this stuff!