King vs Katakuri is not close
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- My next video may take a while but I should drop it before the end of this month.
There is a point I didn't touch upon in my video in regards to Zoro and the Minx ultra-regenerative medicine. I don't think I need to bring it up because there isn't a lot of information on it but it was stated to improve Zoro's regenerative abilities and heals any damage he's taken thus far but will suffer double the damage after it wears off. Zoro was essentially fighting King in a "healed" condition but his bones were either still broken or may have been fixed I'm not sure since they don't talk about his bones after he takes the medicine. - Zábava
Let's be honest, if they actually fought in canon, Katakuri would get a power up out of his donut so Oda could make them stall each other for 10 panels straight, distributed among 23 chapters
yes
I can confirm
Don't forget the anime adaption making 4 panels last 20 minutes
And katakury absolutetly abliterating him
@@RedSkyer-BG1Not with that glass durability and low AP
Since u mentioned "power cliffing". Could a video idea be "when each straw hat could beat Arlong"
@@vol8247 could probably go one step further and make one on when each strawhat could beat Luffy's villains
@@El_Eon_ that would be an awesome video
I can't wait for the Nami vs Crocodile section, once Nami can summon rain, she's like 2/3rds of the way to beating Crocodile. All she needs is a strong enough move to end the fight.
@@msaag5490 well it did take Luffy punching crocodile through bedrock for him to bring him down. In some cases, I don't think Nami can win until she gets Zeus just because he also gives her haki.
@@El_Eon_ Zeus gives Nami haki? Really? I thought the dark coloring was primarily due to his nature as a thundercloud. Or is it deduction based on the fact that Zeus has to have some haki in order to be universally useful against any devil fruit user?
Bro is telling us that the grass is green
Kat fans thinks otherwise
Yeh a more close match up would be Sanji vs King
@@orbboom6119fuck no man sanji gets destroyed by katakuri
@@AlexLu-hq5otand then Katakuri wakes up from his coma with Brulee telling him he lost to the germa brat 😂
@@aanthonyy_ cap lol😂
Well, the problem with this matchup is that Oda doesn't exactly look at powerscalling the same way most of us do, the proof of that fact is Crocodille's and Buggy's inconsistent strenght at Impel Down and Marine Ford. One Piece follows a narrative powerscalling concept instead of the usual ones, and seeing as he wrote Big Mom and Kaido as being rivals for decades, alongside being somewhat relative in their crew stenght when we look at the larger picture, i think King and Katakuri would be closer in strenght if we ever do have a fight in between them, most people would call it a "buff", but it would only be that in feats instead of a narrative
Fr, I feel like powerscalers constantly neglect the type of story we're discussing. Moriah was a rival of Kaido, Crocodile was a rival of Whitebeard. Both got smacked by a pre-time skip Luffy. King vs Katakuri would be much, much closer than what people seem to think. Doflamingo or Crocodile vs either of them would be hella interesting as well. By general shonen logic, Crocodile should be stomped by King. By one piece battle logic, Crocodile would imo stand a pretty solid chance of defeating King.
They weren't warlords for nothing
Facts damage in op is inconsistent.
Buggy and Crocodile was inconsistent?
@ziegy640 100%. By standard anime logic, Crocodile shouldn't have been able to contribute in any significant way during Marineford. However, the same man that got beaten by a pre-timeskip, pre-gear, pre-haki Luffy, easily stood up to Doflamingo, a man whom Luffy had to use Gear 4 to defeat. By *standard anime logic* that should've never happened, yet, it did.
@@gurururuwarararara8164 crocodile never beat doffy tho also by default that doffy should be weaker...
But what was wrong with buggy?
Speaking of power cliffing, I think I found the major power cliffs in one piece. Here they are
Arlong Eastblue
Crocodile Alabasta
Rob Lucci Enies lobby
Pascifistas Sabaody
Whitebeard and a lot of the combatants during the paramount war
Marineford
Luffy Return to Sabaody
Doflamingo Dressrosa
Katakuri Wholecake island
Kaido Wano
@@lapislazers2373 I would probably add Kuma in Thriller bark and Kizaru in addition to the pacifista but this is great
@@El_Eon_ I for some reason always for get Kuma absolutely turns everyone into fauder at the end of Thriller bark
@@lapislazers2373 also at the end of sabaody. where kizaru is also a powercliff.
you forgot one
the 5 elders & shanks - egghead
not as extreme of a cliff but still a cliff nonetheless
You know the day is good when the GOAT drop another banger🎉.
Katakuri fans have been in disbelief since wano 😂.
I love kat but powercliffing is a thing.
W video ❤.
@@gman8477 I think besides the whole lunarian plot, Katakuri as a whole is a more interesting character but he really got power cliffed in my opinion
@@El_Eon_ for real
@@El_Eon_ I think Oda realized he may have been too hasty in revealing the Lunarians midway through King's story and decided not to expand more than he did. Which unfortunately cut into King's development as a character. There's no doubt some deep lore is hidden throughout the Lunarian story, the Celestial Dragons literally evicted them from their home on the Red Line.
@@msaag5490 I believe he himself isn't as important as his people's significance in the story only because he doesn't seem to have any information on his people besides the rules of his body
@@El_Eon_ Slight disagree that King didn't know much about his people. He knew their people believed in the legend of the Sun God Nika and we know just knowing anything about Nika could be a big deal. There could be something Lunarian specific in the Nika mythos only they knew, but that's head canon on my part, but not an unreasonable one.
Thank you for calling this out. So many people try their hardest to wank him above King, Yamato, Zoro, and Sanji. And I’m just like the scaling doesn’t add up in Katakuri’s favor.
They act like bc he has an ability that not many people shown it automatically means he stomps as if Enel vs Luffy and Luffy vs Boa sisters didn’t exist where Luffy was faster than someone observation Haki that he didn’t have at the time.
We don’t even know if he has Acoc yet or where he’s at after his losses to snakeman. Katakuri hasn’t even fought anyone with a reason. He had no real reason to be after straw hat.
@@censari544 I wasn’t really referring to a Future version of Katakuri bc obviously if Oda bring him back then he will be a lot stronger than his WCI counterpart.
Just comparing his stats in WCI vs Wano or Egghead characters. Which is why I say the gap is just dumb high
I mean, it's just a clear case of powercliffing. However, I would like to posit that IF Katakuri returns and he is massively buffed like he has advanced Armament or ever Conquerors and a giga durability buff, don't be surprised. Out of all the enemies Luffy faced, Katakuri probably has one of the highest potential to get stronger, mostly because Luffy helped him realize his true self. If we remember Rayleigh's words, "Have no doubts, that's what makes you strong," then Luffy gave Katakuri the chance to grow into a truly monstrous figure with a mindset not hellbent on a false image of himself, but through self actualization.
And before some clowns say "He got no diffed by Kuzan," it's a literal former Admiral. King would also get folded by that man.
Fr😂
he does have potential but he still needs to train. theres no magic infusion buff happening until some more time passes. boa has more potential to me
@@vert6537 yea
Bro is 48 years old, there are ways to grow
But a massive potential? Disagree
Peak State in one piece is between the 40s to the 50s for most characters, Katakuri may already be at his peak, or maybe he can pull a little more to get stronger, its hard to say
@@joseaugustosoriano5094 And? Luffy went from Don Krieg to Kaido in like 3 years. And are you forgetting the advanced Conquerors buff? That alone solidifies your spot in the Top 30 of the verse easy even without an OP Devil Fruit.
Bro literally how I just asked my brother about this not even an hour ago and you've been cooking up a vid about it????
Regardless, great vid!! Well explained and thought provoking in a way other power scalers don't often capture
@@TrashPandaMage happy coincidences
@@El_Eon_🤨🤨🤨
Seraphim vs all right handman. Seraphim are one of the most broken characters in one piece and i see no body talking about or even power scaling about them i hope u make on them.
@@LIGMADEEZN67 I can cook something up
@@LIGMADEEZN67 I would give it to the Seraphim. They can actually hold up against Yonko Luffy and Blackbeard. Even though we haven't seen either of them go all out against a Seraphim, the fact they're even remotely competitive while being children is already too much.
I would wait until we see what it takes to take a seraphim down
Was not expecting an in universe debate.
Pleasantly surprised
Now make a "Why Ulti vs Katakuri is closer than you think" video. Just to be that chaotic force. Don't matter if it's serious or a meme video, but it would highlight how bad the powercliffing got that people genuinely could see Katakuri losing to a mere Tobi Roppo member.
@@msaag5490 that would bring all the smoke in the comment section😂
@@El_Eon_ True, which is why it would be pure comedy gold for the insanity it will bring. I mean, you gave Katakuri a clean W with Pain, and now a clean L with King. Might as well go with the controversial take for a tie breaker while causing all kinds of mayhem 🙃
😂
both characters are my favorite in terms of design fr they're so cool very chill giant commanders with a intimidating powerful presences I feel like King or Alber would have been a nice guy if didn't meet Kaido heck I'll even say he was a nice guy before he met Kaido that's my theory and fun fact King among the 1st yonko commanders is the tallest among them in the series Katakuri is only 2nd.
This depends on how you feel about powercreep
What do you mean
He shows what the characters can and can’t do and proves that
Katakuri can’t win with his AP and his win com/hax are not enough
@@dantesdragolic4292 well croc shows up with almost 2 bil bounty and he loses to pre timeskip luffy with water , oda is weird with power u need to just ignore it sometimes and look at where the story want the characters to be for example and thats one luffy will be the strongest cause he will do what joyboy+roger+ anyone couldnt do, zoro will beat mihawk which is very close to a yonko , that puts sanji around admiral lvl , ofc they could get even higher and thats cause the story wants them to be this way not feats
I'm glad someone else said it too, not only is King stronger but here's even arguments for Queen too and the greatest part about it, Zoro got stronger after recovering from the rooftop which makes King's feats much more impressive and let's be real, if Oven could damage Katakuri I have no idea how he'd fight King,
Queen, or even Jack and come out on top..
Good vid but could you do one where you compare sanji vs zoro, a really prominent one for sure!
(Also with comparing their latest battle etc.) that would bang 👏🏽
@@luffyflexn318while I could, it's consistently implied that Zoro is stronger than Sanji. They may be able to clash with one another but Zoro is consistently above him narratively.
This is a good video and I understand why people hold the same views. However I still personally believe king vs katakuri goes either way or in the hands of kat. This mainly due to katakuri arsenal. Yes he is weaker endurance wise than king however that doesn’t mean damage suddenly cannot add up. King isn’t Kaido and I feel like this video over relies on using Kaido to prop up king instead of using king own feats. Katakuri has feats like dodging snakeman which gets faster the more it stretches, putting a giant hole in luffy which I doubt flame off king would survive many hits from that, and can use his mochi to suffocate king. Imo yes in terms of AP and endurance kat got powercliffed however imo other stats he did not. King will need to put his flame off if he wants to touch katakuri cause I see no way else he can even attempt to hit him otherwise.
@@Ty-cx5zj fair enough
@@El_Eon_ yea just want to say I don’t think you’re wrong since the power jump from WCI to wano is big undoubtedly. I’m just not convinced king is completely above katakuri in every stat, matchup, and abilities.
Ok ok I like this
So ima say that at best mat still gets speed blitzed because when Mario got serious(ish) gs G5 he speed blitzed luffy in his lightning attack.
When zoro fought kaidos duo attack he had time to react
1 Kaido needs to wait for bigmom to some extent and vice versa
2 zoro basically stands still and blocks loading 20 bones and this should slow him down in kings fight
3 this means zoro was slowed down while fighting king making the speed blitz less impressive(ish) but zoro has never had speed issues in a broken state so I won’t say this is worth giving kat a win con
(An example of an injury state for zoro would be mihawks injury on his chest vs the whole of Arline’s men plus hachi
There he had no struggle treating them like foder when being outnumbered at least by a 20-1 ratio and then fought hachi another fishman who had twice the attack options and race based strangth)
@@dantesdragolic4292 in the description I put an explanation for the minks ultra regenerative medicine that Zoro took. Basically it's not really known whether or not he healed his bones, but it did seem to put him back at top shape. Maybe one could argue. Stamina didn't fully recover but considering one piece characters can get back their stamina after a bit of rest It really depends on what you believe.
If you’re up for it, it would be really cool to see you do a video on durability negation based abilities.
Too many people seem to think that all dura neg is hax based and can’t reflect a character’s AP, even though stuff like advanced armament demonstrates otherwise.
by default, dura neg IS hax. the hax is negating durability.
and that applies to haki aswell.
the fact it can also amplify damage is a bonus
I'm not going to argue with the results however I will say the kaido one shot doesn't matter as much because he would one shot king as well if he wanted to
@@otakuking9910 with his flame on he has higher durability than dragon Kaido. We saw this through Zoro who used the exact same attack. He is at least tougher than dragon Kaido. 1 thunder bagua from base Kaido is not gonna put him down.
And kat doesn’t need a super buff when he comes back. Y’all be the same people who believe crocodile got a prison buff.
With that trash durability and low AP, he needs it, keep coping tho
Sanji vs might guy when?
@@Interlink. I can cook something up!
@@Interlink. Ohh interesting match up. I might give it to Sanji. If Sanji pushes Guy to 8 Gates, I can see Sanji outlasting the time duration.
@@msaag5490Yeah and the speed gap is too much.
Your way of reasoning is very good because you don't even need complicated powerscaling calculations. The evidence is right there in the manga, and any smart person would understand with your explanation.
Great video! Keep it up
Fully agree, the powercreep in Wano was quite absurd, personally i felt way too big.
Since in retrospective it end up made the entire Big Mom pirates (besides for Big Mom herself) really weak in Yonko's standards, considered that even someone like Ulti, wh isn't a top commander, can be argue to be able to defeat Katakuri.
Not to say that all Yonko crew has to be exactly equal, but they should have been more comparable, with even the weakest crew be able to battle with the others.
Great breakdown. Any chance we could get Jack vs Perospero? Way too many people seem to buy into the “Jack and Peros narratively implied to be equal since Inu and Neko beat them at the same time” argument.
@@michaeldorsey9231 I think Inu and neko are extremely close in power. It's basically implied that they're equal in almost every way unless I'm missing some information. More so they fought for the exact same amount of time against Jack and always performed about the same. Jack versus peros would most likely just be brute Force versus devil fruit Hax.
It’s not Neko and Inu being close in power I have issue with, there’s plenty of evidence in story demonstrating that they are functionally equal in strength.
My problem with the argument stems from the fact that 1) all 4 characters were in varying states of fatigue/injury buy the time Jack and Peros lost, so even without any contradictory evidence it’s already shaky to argue that Peros is comparable to the other 3, but more importantly 2) when you actually compare feats from a fresh Peros and Jack, it’s not even close. Peros had an off panel fight with Sulong Carrot and Wanda, wherein it took him 10 chapters to beat them and only after they lost their Sulong forms. Jack by comparison could oneshot 6 Sulong Mink on the Rooftop, inspite of already sustaining superficial injuries, and inspite of one of those Minks being a Musketeer Captain (meaning he ranks higher than/is likely stronger than Wanda and Carrot).
what is your take on Naruto vs Luffy just wondering
@@user-up8kr9cj1s If we can get 10k subs I'll make that video.
ok
Wait didnt u have 30k smth subs @@El_Eon_
@@Jusaguywithbrain never did😭
@@El_Eon_ oh but you'll soon have
Great video! With all the evidence yeah its pretty clear King takes the dub. However, I will say that there is a pretty good chance Katakuri will have gotten much stronger after his fight with Luffy, considering his drive and personality as well as the fact he might've had a Haki bloom too. That plus all the hints that the BM Pirates will eventually return does imply the next time we see him he might be able to fight King in the future.
Yeah it makes sense. King is biologically stronger and he is in a constant state of battling to keep his rank. While katakuri is chilling, eating and not being contested for his rank due to him being one of the eldest children
Edit: Basically katakuri is complacent while king is getting stronger
I am proud to say after all this time, I’ve FINALLY been convinced Katakuri cannot beat King anymore - it just took the right case to crack my stubborn head. Thanks bro lol great video yet again
More context: Me not knowing about the vivre card confirming King had Armament/Observation Haki was a major factor for me, wasn’t sure how King despite physically being way stronger would be able to touch Kat. Also didn’t consider how fast King truly was in comparison but you explained it well enough for me.
Only part I have trouble buying if Killer/Kid > Katakuri, mostly for similar reasons of haki and speed. Killer had a specific attack that was a good matchup for Kaido and Post WCI Luffy did not - that doesn’t mean Rooftop Killer > Post WCI Luffy in my opinion. Kid also didn’t do much of any damage vs Kaido unless we’re really gassing those wrestling moves, so Post WCI Luffy and Kat I have > Kid as well. Way I see it, someone who’s supposed to be 1st commander level in Kid isn’t getting off screen arm chopped off by another 1st commander (Beckman) if they’re truly in the same tier, no evidence he got jumped or nothing.
@@kenerb654 well it's not so much that they fought kaido more so they fought Kaido and Big Mom who is also stronger than Kat in almost every way. Not to mention they also took more damage from serious attacks from big mom and kaido.
@@El_Eon_ I can see that, like when Kid face tanked Big Moms Misery attack’s beat down and still performed afterward. Even if I don’t think Katakuri can tank it like Kid did because of how few hits from WCI Luffy it took to take him down, I can’t simply put Kid > Kat because he can take more damage. Lasting longer stops you from losing faster, but not winning in a fight. And more of the offensive results in the fight with Big Mom came from Law and her constant quotes of disdain for Law’s abilities highlight as much. Killers more debatable more if narratives anything to go by, no point arguing Killer is stronger than Kid so yeah both under Katakuri in my mind.
@@kenerb654 I wouldn't downplay when it comes to damage. Bege stated that there is no weapon in the world that can hurt big mom. She was compared to a blimp made of steel and she has been shown to have some of the best raw strength feats when she was a child. Kidd not only hurt big mom through brute force alone but even overpowered her physically. Katakuri could never do that
Phenomenal editing
@@pokeballblaze9835 thank you so much! That meant a lot!
@@El_Eon_ You deserve it brother I hate how much people dick ride Katakuri like he's still 100% a top tier people said he could hold his own against an admiral like green bull and people still think Sanji is not above him and people down play big mom to the point where some people think he could beat her or put up a good fight
This video was really visually appealing and has lots of talent put into it plus the thumbnail is hilarious 😂
haven’t watched the video yet but katakuri smokes
well nevermind
Yeah I was gonna say my big bench mark is Could WCI Luffy have beaten King? And my answer is no every single time, like I don’t see him as strong enough and if they matched speed wise I can’t see King not using his skill with a blade or his flight to counter.
well explained
El_Eon, i dont know if you do request, but could you zeldris from 7ds vs zoro,shanks or mihawk
I would love a video just about the strength possabilities on one piece. Mostly becuase hajrudins feat of punching machhvise 10 000 ton up to the sky with one arm while not being a super special giant is insenly impressive. Also the force from his mass while falling would be so much more than 10 000 tons to.
What do you think about Might Guy vs Current Sanji matchup? I'd love to see your opinion.
kaido did indeed go unga bunga
I'm still on my knees for my glorious king Katakuri, he slams 🗣🙏🧎♂
Post-Udon Base Luffy is above Whole Cake Island Gear 4 Luffy according to Kaido.
Ulti made Post-Udon Luffy use Gears to escape her hold.
In terms of raw stats, Katakuri doesn't clear Ulti.
Katakuri isn't that guy anymore. Power cliffing got brutal post-Dressrosa.
The restless gamblers trend of taking shots at katakurui continues
Very well made video and explanation, I was one who used to think the fight would be closer, probably being biased because I just think katakuri is that much cooler and fun. But yeah, I don't think Katakuri has any way to deal with King's defense and speed... talking about defense and speed, Sanji beats katakuri too in a similar way.
If we were to see them fight again, I think Katakuri has a higher chance of getting stronger than King, Katakuri is probably even more motivated as a fighter after fighting Luffy and being a conquerors haki user and all, but I don't really think we will get to see that future.
I like Katakuri more cause he looks badass lol…
But aside from all the shenanigans, Kata’s ability doesn’t do much for him here against King. King has a higher combat IQ skill and is more adamant than Kata.
Snakeman victim gets slammed by the king of hell
The katakuri glazers are coming for bro😭😭😭😭😭
this is all 100% true if we are speaking of shown forms. however katekuri is probably growing as well, like Oda did with Rob Lucci . if they fight in the future katekuri will be stronger than what we seen at whole cake.
when you gonna be streaming again eon? last time was fun
pls do zoro vs law
Great video, but can you do Record of Ragnarok scaling next pls🙏🏻
@@ednacarolinatovar-gonzalez4423 I've seen record of Ragnarok, I don't think I like it that much. Once I make a patreon or Ko-fi I'll make the subscription only a dollar and I'll probably have a sub only poll where A record of Ragnarok video can be an option.
@@El_Eon_ alright 👍
Need a Marco video his scaling is all over the place
I’d like to see something with jimbe. Maybe jimbe vs sanji bc jimbe would wash him
I actually dont believe he was cliffed, but i do think he gets washed here. I got him slightly over Queen.
Love the video, but just to play devils advocate I believe katakuri can definitely stand with them at the rooftop. Katakuri power level should be right there at kid law. Katakuri may not have mastered his conquerors haki awakening, but he can use it and release it in some of his attacks. I think speed wise katakuri is still at rooftop character speeds so I do believe he can keep up with most of the characters up there. I think the whole argument is whole cake Luffy just couldn’t do damage and I just don’t think this true if anything beginning of wano was more about bypassing kaido/ yonku defenses and on the rooftop we seen that there are several different ways to bypass characters of that level defenses killer was using sound law was using DF kid was using squeezing/physical strength To bypass kaido defenses to at least somewhat hurt him.
wci luffy's durability is above katakuri's and luffy became faster than him that luffy got speed blitzed and one shot by kaido. So no katakuri would get blitzed and one shot by kaido instantly. Also what are you on about him releasing conqueror's haki on his attacks he doesn't have advanced conquerors
@@tevinssj7609 thank you! Like the comment above this one said. Luffy is about as fast as katakuri as Katakuri in Gear 4.
Luffy was likely not using Future sight when he first got blitzed and one shot but he WAS using it when Kaido blitzed him again. The Rooftop version of Luffy is faster than his previous Gear 4. He is faster than a version of Luffy that rivals Katakuri in speed. Even if Katakuri is slightly faster than snakeman he's not faster than rooftop Luffy.
It's always the ones that use "It's not close" in their title are the one of the worst at scaling. Here's how many things you got wrong
1- Powercliffing is irrelevant if you're not comparing Katakuri with Kaido, because Kaido the one that powercliffed the verse not everyone, and you saying that everyone before got powercliffed when we see the same Crocodile that was beat by no haki Luffy matching Mihawk and stopping Akainu is just you yapping and repeating what others say without thinking for yourself
2- Katakuri has the perfect win condition, King needs to go in his speed mode to even hit Katakuri and that would make King lose his durability and get hurt, Katakuri was hurting a mythical zoan rubber boy, he would easily damage a regular zoan when his flames are off
3- "King should be fast enough to tag Katakuri" That's not happening when King couldn't land a single hit on basic observation user like Zoro, he's not landing a single hit on Katakuri who's faster and has advanced observation
4- " Katakuri takes massive damage from gear 4" Are you talking about getting hit over and over again and not falling once is a massive damage? Luffy couldn't put him down once....
5- "Luffy deals the vast majority of the damage" No he didn't, Katakuri did that to himself, Luffy doesn't have any attack that can do as much damage as the spear attack that Katakuri did to himself while Katakuri has
6- "Luffy only landed 14 hits" Black mamba alone is more than 14 hits lol, you don't even know how to count? I'm not even gonna bother arguing this point because of how stupid it sounded when you said 14
7- " Kaido one shot Luffy" Yeah he one shot enraged Luffy that couldn't use observation haki same thing happened to Oden he got one shot because he was enraged as well but you're ignoring the context here
8- " Katakuri could only manage to put down Luffy for 7m" Again you're being disingenuous and ignoring panels and context for agenda reasons? Chapter 880 Katakuri put Luffy down and was having a long conversation while Luffy was down, then he did similar to what Kaido did with his awakening and put Luffy down but instead of finishing him off he walks away because of plot, right here Luffy should lose but saved by the plot, then Katakuri outlasts g4 Luffy and Luffy runs away, Luffy should lose here AGAIN but ofc you ignoring these details. Then Luffy comes back and Katakuri magically forgets that he has awakening that he could use to put down base Luffy because base Luffy can't keep up with awakening without his g4 and then he stops using his spear. But ofc you ignore all of this context for some known reason and use this plot plot no mi fight to downplay Katakuri which is disingenuous
9- " Luffy vs Kaido round 1 take away" Yes Katakuri indeed got powercliffed like the rest of the series got powecliffed by Kaido, like is this new? We always knew that the Yonkos are on the top of the verse for a reason. but Katakuri wouldn't lose in one hit because he wouldn't be enraged like Luffy and not use observation haki and he would deal damage to Kaido since his armament was always better and had higher AP than Luffy
10- "Considering how close Katakuri vs Luffy and how one sided Kaido vs Luffy was" Yes if you read with your eyes closed and ignore context you would say such thing, everyone reading with their eyes open knows that Katakuri should've won in the first 30 minutes if not for plot and Luffy was enraged vs Kaido and couldn't use observation haki to dodge or block
11- "Pre Acoc Zoro is stronger than Wci snake man" That's just not true, Zoro still couldn't control Enma and he doesn't have the speed or the advanced observation to keep up with Luffy, also Katakuri was still stronger than Wci Luffy by a lot, if you read the context with your eyes open which i already explained
12- " Post Wci Luffy that fought Katakuri couldn't scratch Kaido" Yeah that has nothing to do with Katakuri since his armament is was always stronger tha LUffy's, if he was in Luffy's place he would damage Kaido
13- " Zoro tanked of Kaido attacks and could react to Big Mom" Zoro deflecting the wind slash isn't a "tank" are you serious? And reacting to Big Mom is something the base Wci Luffy did when Big Mom was about to attack the one of his allies
13- " Zoro needed advanced conquerors to beat King" That's just a lie he unlocked it because of Enma giving him trouble during the fight not King, King is beatable without conquerors haki as he become regular zoan when he goes speed mode unlike Kaido who's always durable
14- "King's body is so tough that the same attack that Zoro used to cut Kaido couldn't leave a scratch on King" Well that's just wrong you can go again and see that there was an aura coming out of Enma when Zoro attacked Kaido bit there wasn't an aura when Zoro attacked King with the same move
15- "While King's fire is off he's so fast and can perception Blitz Zoro" Well here's the thing that you keep lying... Zoro literally reacted to all of his attacks with basic observation haki not even advanced observation needed for his speed
16- "Even tho Zoro's attacks could barely put a dent on king" Lol he literally got one shot after these 2 attacks that were shallow, Katakuri lost half of his stomach and kept it fighting for hours while bleeding
17- " Zoro seems to struggle with King" No he didn't he was struggling with Enma and you're being disingenuous AGAIN
18- "Katakuri can't stand next to the Wg because Luffy got 1 shot" Again ignoring that Luffy was enrgaed and he was still much weaker than Katakuri, also ignores that Kidd and Killer both got 1 shot from one of Shank's attacks lol,
19- "The fact that a stronger and faster Luffy could get tagged by base Kaido" a stronger Luffy yes but faster isn't a fact it's your headcanon and Katakuri scales to snake man speed not base Luffy, also Kaido said good job not letting the same attack hit you twice which means he didn't get fully hit, but again you ignoring text on screen which is impressive
20- "Law Kidd Killer and Zoro doing damage to Kaido makes them better than Wci Luffy" Kidd literally didn't do anything to Kaido and the rest of them would get one shot by base drunk angry Kaido which is his strongest state when Luffy fought him. This is such a weak argument as well because even the scabbards did damage to Kaido and Luffy didn't but that doesn't make them stronger than Luffy in a fight, being better in one stats doesn't win you the whole fight lol
21- "Base Kaido was able to tag Luffy" You're scaling base Luffy to snake man Luffy which is 10x faster that was still getting bullied by Katakuri in terms of speed? And the fact that Kaido says that base Luffy didn't let the same attack hit him, and you're even scaling King's speed to Kaido's speed? You're just lost
22- "Even if Luffy used Snake man instead of Bounce man the result would've been the same" Oh so you're still ignorant on the fact that Luffy was enraged and couldn't user advanced observation? You're calling yourself a scaler btw.
23- "Zoro could clash with hybrid Kaido" Yes that Zoro had advanced conqeurros = Asura and you're sacling him after than the pre Acoc Zoro vs King? Are you ok?
24- "King could still perception Blitz Zoro with his flames off, which is something hybrid Kaido didn't do" Show me one panel of King perception Blitzing Zoro!! All of his attack were blocked on time, you don't even know what a blitz is. Kaido was about to blitz Zoro but Law saved him and that's the only time that Kaido tried to blitz Zoro why are you saying he couldn't do? But i can tell you have a short memory
25- "But how would Katakuri win the longer the fight get the weaker Katakuri haki will become" Katakuri is the one that showed better stamina feats fighting for 12 hours not King the got 3 shot in 15 minutes and you're trying to argue stamina against Katakuri? hilarious. Also after 12 hours Katakuri didn't show any sign of weakness in terms of observation
26- "Few hits all King needs because it took weaker Luffy 14 hits" I already answered this one above and how are you scaling King AP anyways when we don't know if he could hurt Kaido and the fact that Katakuri has much stronger armament?
I have no more words on this.....
Could katakuri do a training arc to become strong enough to win? As in, he takes the loss against luffy as drive to get even stronger.
Big fan not ready for the take
@@johanlieberthyperborean nothing wrong with disagreeing 😂
@@El_Eon_ don't worry thats on the table
@@El_Eon_ Yeah my big problem with a lot of these takes on the subject is that; prior to the start of Wano we just spent a whole arc in WCI establishing the principles of observation Haki. How it requires a calm mind and control over ones emotions in order to use it. I think what's left out of a lot of these takes is that Oda clearly establishes at the begining of the confrontation that Luffy has just watched Kaido incinerate the mountain top the crew was watching from. So their fate is at best uncertain. Which is why Luffy dives in recklessly the way he does. The Luffy that loses to Kaido for the first time is in Bound-Man and not using observation haki. Making this a significantly different version of Luffy than the Snake-Man Luffy using Future Sight. I also just disagree that his movement speed isnt massively boosted in snake man I think that is clearly implied. On top of his combat speed and versatility recieving a massive boost. A boost that still did not over come Kat's Observation Haki. Kat was only "defeated" when he clashed with luffy power for power.
I just simply don't think Katakuri would have gotten hit by that particular Thunder Bagua. As we saw Katakuri's speed and observation Haki were still superior to Luffy's by the end of their confrontation just prior to this. Genuinely this is also not talked about enough but by the time we reach Wano if you track since the start of the story Luffy's speed scaling has blown Zoro's out of the water by multiple tiers. So to say because King becomes very fast he could now tag a Katakuri seeing 5 seconds into the future is just unlikely. Especially since we were just watching Snakeman Luffy someone who is faster than gear 2 Luffy who is faster than Zoro struggle to tag him. On top of that I don't think you can really make a blanket statement like "the supernova all did better on the roof top than luffy" so therefore their speed and etc. scale over Kat. It's a team battle with a lot of abilities and tricks being used where they also out number the yonkou. So I think you really have to analyze those feats on a case by case basis. Now at the same time I will concede that Katakuri is going to be hard pressed to be able to penetrate King. But I think this is very clear that the narrative intention here that they are two sides of the same coin and both have this psuedo invulnerability that anyone in the series except the top tiers would have a hard time overcoming. Katakuri was able to fight using that level of observation Haki for 12 hours or whatever it was. And inside the manga Kings AP feats are nothing impressive. Katakuri has a deeper bag and more impressive Haki. Kat even shows levels to his armament as well as having conquerors. While King relies heavily on his natural physical lunarian attributes. As we know only Haki can transcend all. I think it is a very close fight I just think Kat has the edge in Stamina, Versatility and Haki. Future sight is also just super underrated and I think people only consider it's mid tier invulnerability rather than it's true ability which is to be able to plan ahead and change the course of a fight by constantly giving yourself the advantage. I don't think it is a coincidence that it is also Shank's primary ability. Nice vid tho bro.
@@johanlieberthyperborean I can see your viewpoint. I just feel like you're ignoring a couple of key points. You don't need to be calm of mind to use observation Haki only future sight. It's true that it can help improve your observation Haki but it's not exactly required. Regardless of whether or not Luffy used it against kaido, bounceman should still be relative in speed to Katakuri without future sight. Luffy's base by the time of the rooftop should be superior to every single version of Luffy besides maybe attack speed in regards to snakeman. He used future sight and still got tagged by kaido. I do not believe there is any feat that you can use for Katakuri that can solidly prove he could Dodge thunder bagua.
As for Zoro, I feel like you're downplaying his speed, He could keep up with Rob Lucci who did get toyed with gear 5 Luffy but Lucci also wasn't so much slower that he couldn't at least somewhat keep up with Luffy. Zoro ends up blitzing and cutting an on guard Lucci later on. In many situations, especially on the rooftop Zoro is capable of keeping up with Luffy. He's also the only one who could react in time to the conquest of the sea. Especially since killer said there's no way of dodging it.
I feel like you're also downplaying Kings AP because Zoro stated that his flames were like magma and akainu who has the magma. Devil fruit is stated to have the highest offensive power in the verse. Not to mention King's explosion nearly killed Zoro and his deep pride stake almost put down Zoro as well.
I also feel like if anything future sight is overrated because so many people believe that it's this automatic answer to any character when all you need is higher speed than the person's reaction time, which I believe King should have Katakuri given the rooftop Feats. According to the 4 billion volume that came out for film red in Japan, it stated That Shanks is the observation killer. He seems to have some ability that actually negates observation Haki if anything. I don't think Future sight is actually his primary ability
“ I also just disagree that his movement speed isnt massively boosted in snake man I think that is clearly implied.”
I’m not sure that’s the case; Snakeman on Rooftop was blitzed by a drunken Kaido who was also evading all of Luffy’s punches, whereas immediately following that Boundman Luffy could actually land a blow on him. Not to say I think that Snskeman is slower than Boundman, just that their combat speed is not that far off from each other.
At best the Mirrorworld showings would imply that Snakeman is much faster than Boundman, but this is overlooking base Luffy arguably surpassing his previous Boundman showings and getting future sight.
But he at least beats Queen right?
(Please, I am on enough copium as it is)
i will always have an issue with katakuri vs king since people act like king can and will one shot katakuri when that's not happening at all, there's so much nuances people miss with katakuri vs luffy like katakuri being the first villain to be conscious right after the fight, brulee heavily hints that katakuri let luffy go afterwards and fell on his back on purpose. To me it doesn't make sense for yonko and YC to be in the same realm , like people honestly believe ulti is headbutting katakuri and its GGs like that doesn't make sense for the sake of the story. Great video but i definitely disagree with katakuri not having a chance
“brulee heavily hints that katakuri let luffy go afterwards and fell on his back on purpose.”
She only hints that Kat was happy Luffy escaped, not that he had deliberately let Luffy go. And having the choice about which direction he fell in doesn’t mean he had any choice in raising his fists/continuing the fight.
Can you do kaido vs gorosei 🙂✨
that would be a slug feast where there gonna to be fight the environment more then each other so i say it comes down to endurance
W vid but I don’t think kat got powercliffed as bad as people think points like ulti being stronger than kat are just reaches and the kaido that one shot luffy thought of him as a nuscene so he decided to one shot him I definitely think he could’ve done the same to killer if he wasn’t holding back and just taking attacks kat>Tobbi ropo and kat>killer I believe he’s above queen but below sanji slightly
There is no power cliffing Katakuri Neg diffs King
Strength: Katakuri
Speed: katakuri
Stamina: katakuri
Defence: katakuri
Durability: king
Endurance : katakuri
Armanent haki: Katakuri
Observation haki: Katakuri
Conquers Haki: katakuri
Versatility: katakuri
Df: Katakuri
Range: katakuri
Hax: Katakuri
IQ: katakuri
Battle IQ: katakuri
Weapon: katakuri's Spear (unknown graded Meito)
These are the stats
Katakuri neg diffs
Some stuff you are downplaying
WCI luffy is relative to roof piece Luffy Pre Adv. Conquers
WCI luffy made Bigmom Block with armament Haki
She made a conscious descion to use armament
And Katakuri is has Stronger Attack potency and Strength than Luffy overpiwering him
Katakuri Neg diffed Ichiji
Raid suit sanji tanked attacks from king no damage
Katakuri hits much harder than king
Everything we see from Katakuri is from a nerfed katakuri
His Attack potency and Fighting style is not used or Even Thrown away
Katakuri is a Spearmaster who Started using an unfamilar fightibg style and mastered it mid fight and even imoroved it
He did not use His fighting style and tactics
And they matter
We can see Only a few attacks from his spear and His ap and Dc skyrocket
We can See the Danger when luffy got Shit with the numbibg needle
He Got a Piece of his side torn off
And Was In danger of death
Katakuri started respecting luffy and out away hus spear
And katakyri has a Unique armament haki that can Overpower g4 luffy's haki
Again this was used only 5 times becuase katakuri started liking luffy
So katakuri is restricting himself
To what is only needed aka future sight and df and Basic armament
Katakuri actually stops creating traps and Contructs Becuase he respected luffy and wanted to face Him head on
When before we see katakuri spawn floating fist from range right next to luffy to smack him
We see katakuri use the terrain to surroynd and overwhelm luffy
Katakuri has Domain over land and sky
But once he liked luffy he stopped using these tactics
Katakuri Is down played for his defence durability and other things
But i ask you to read it again
Similar if not stonger attacks that made bigmom Block with armament katakuri is not blocking with armament but tanking with his body
Katakuri literally allows luffy to attack To see what it can do
And we know he can block or dodge becuase its his forté
But he did neither with king cobra a final attack from luffy going mach Fuck you
Katakuri tanked it with no haki
He did not get sent flying from the Supercharged Named attack
He did not get cut or brused
He got a bug scuff mark
Thats it
How many characters Can tank that hit and onky have a scuff mark
Keeo in mind they have been fightibg for 11 gours straight Using awakening for 8 hours 4 hours with a Hole in their stomach (a lethal attack) fighting in a constant highspeed battle for hours
How many could do these feats?
We see king bleed from an attack from marco
We See king Get a lethal blow from Zoro
We see King not be able to damage raid suit sanji
King is overrated
He is strong
But he lacks in nearly everything compared to Katakuri
The win condition?
There is multple win condition
1 is time and stamina
King fought at most 20 minutes total
And he was done from lethal attack
Katakuri would notice and outspeed Kings Flight mode
And take advantage Of gus weakened defences
Remeber marco made flame on king bleed
So katakuri with his Superior speed(combat attack and movement speed)
his Spear and Unique armament haki
Is easily Hitting and Putting down King
If not in one then with time
This win condition is not using his fruit either
Katakuri with control over the battle field land and air Makes king Almost helpless
"Oh but kings flmire would melt the mochi if he tried to use it"
Katakuri has multiole forms of mochi He has Hard soft sticky and you guessed it fire mochi
King is not Easily burning way anything
He would get trapped before he would melt anything
Katakuri is to Much for king its not fair
And realize this Zoro tagged and followed King with trash observation haki he Followed his movements and attacked
Katakuri cannot do at least that with adv. Observation???
The downolay of katakuri is crazy
He also showcased a feature of Adv. Conquers
Physically crushing your surrounding
Somethibg only shanks and Other yonko do
Something luffy did rifht before he started usibg Adv. Conquers properly
Aka putting it on his attacks
If Katakuri comes back with adv. Conquers it will not be a surprise to me he did what other Adv. Conquers do
Its not a Issue with scalibg either
Becuase from luffy's messed up face in WCI as they fought
Katakuri never NEEDED adv. Conquers for luffy
The same way he Never NEEDED his Spear
The same way He never NEEDED his Unique armament
Katakuri is a restricted character
Unlike king who gave it 120% and got put down
I think adv. Conquers haki is not a crazy Attack buff
But a unique enhancer
Maybe it directly buffs attack potency but if it dies i think its small like a 10% attack buff at max
Conquers haki is utilizing will itself
Basic conquers Overwhelms the Mind
Adv. Conquers overwhelms the physical
Meaning it actually interacts with the real world
And putting on your weapon or fists
Stacks that aspect
It was confirmed Kaido was using Adv. Conquers haki along with basic armament haki
But what kaido says after is interesting
"Its like he is galring at me hus mind is not broken"
Luffy was Knocked out not from the mind
But from his body being overwhelmed
And the only effective way to Fight against it is to have it yourself
Thats why i think its not an attack buff
I think it Adds a unique kind of attack and Defence
That can only be fought against by another with it
The result is the no touching sphere of will
When 2 users are on the same realm of Power the result is no touching and the sky splits the sea's shake
I say this becuase yamato achieved one of these the bo touching Sphere of haki
But she was not exactly on the same lvl as kaido so there was no struggle of physical will being Clashed so no Sky split no sea shake no island destroying
And What is Interesting is katakuri achieved this momentarily on a smaller scale with luffy
Sphere of haki
Physical world being crushed and affected
However Katakuri easily overpowered luffy's Conquers haki
Anyway sooner than later katakuri will be back and be allowed to use his full kit
And Destroy almost anyone
I was about to say you are glazing Kat like Itachi fans from Naruto, then I saw your username. You have points to Kat disregarding King's feats and summed it up to Kat is the goat and King is overrated, but extended over several paragraphs, smh.
@@quandaviousgooch4726what feats?
@@ItachiUchiha_1724 Clown reply, you're exactly why people say one piece has a horrible power scaling fanbase
Would you consider a logia awakening video?
Great video, I'm honestly excited to see Katakuri in the future and how more powerful he is. Hey do you think Sanji will get conqueror haki in the future?
@@lawznwdsc I don't believe that he will because he doesn't have the aspirations of a king
Honestly, no I don't think Sanji gets Conquerors. His dream/goal isn't really suited to him having conquerors compared to say Luffy/Zoro which inherently necessitates being the stronger person as part of the dream. Finding the All Blue doesn't require Sanji to become top dog in the world. I honestly would hope Oda doesn't make Conqueror's the new Armament haki where every single high level combatant needs it to be competitive.
Katakuri on the other hand has the potential to grow far stronger, like nearing Admiral and Yonko status if he learns advanced Conquerors.
@@El_Eon_ True, he's still very powerful without it, especially after what he's been doing on Egghead.
Yea the cope is real, the problem with people power scaling kats fight is they always forget to add context. He lost on purpose!!! How is that hard to understand???
So the most respectful character in One Piece according to Kata fans held back and lost on purpose which is considered a disrespectful act? He acknowledged Luffy as an equal near the end of their fight in both the manga and anime, yet ya'll keep glazing and not using feats or statements, but making stuff up like that other guy saying Katakuri had a unique type of Armament, whatever that means. The most Kata did for Luffy was give him a fair fight when he stabbed him from Flambe intervening. He never fell faked getting defeated for him to escape, he never held back 50% of his arsenal to make it easy for Luffy to win. Again, those are all signs of disrespect as one person is holding back because they think they are too strong. Stay liking each other's comments and feeling like you made a point, you'll always be wrong and it isn't a debate on it.
Ok let me explain how yall like to be delusional and disingenuous.
1. He’s views him as an equal when it comes to being pirates. He didn’t say we’re equal in strength just said we’re equals.
2. Most of the attacks kat showed in the fight was him trying to prove to luffy that anything you can do, I can do better. He only pulled out his own techniques towards the end of the fight.
3. He’s was constantly surprised at the fact that Luffy kept getting back up after hitting him with attacks. Mind you that these attacks didn’t have his full strength because he thought Luffy was fodder and would be out in a couple of attacks. He kept underestimating Luffy which caused the fight to last as long.
4. You keep saying his durability is trash but this is after he gave himself a fatal wound. You have to remember that, he also got back up after Luffy got up. And he coulda kept fighting but was happy with the outcome after asking Luffy, “ will you be back”? Yall also acting like he doesn’t dodge or block 80% of attacks.
5. Kat also learned during the fight that Luffy was picking up on how to use future sight and found it interesting on how far he could get. He started testing him after that.
6. Yall argue the future sight speed debate and only use base kaido and Luffy as the example. The problem with that is that Luffys base speed and kaidos base speed are in different leagues. Speed only tops future sight when one’s speed outclasses another’s. And kat is fast enough to react to kings speed.
7. And again with the durability… yall can say the same about king. When his flame is off his shit is trash. Buddy got tapped like 5 times after zoro learned about trick. And if zoro slow ass can figure that out so can anyone else on a similar scale.
8. His Ap is fine, his haki is better than kings, he has a higher arsenal when it comes to combat ability. Master devil fruit user and awakening also. With unstoppable donuts and block mochi he can constantly attack, and his stamina is also insane.
So to your point it was disrespectful because kat thought he was that strong. He was known for being undefeatable and never laying in his back. Big mom maid the same mistake and that’s why she lost to Kidd and law. Because both of them view their opponents as lower, they ended losing. The difference is that kat actually gained respect and camaraderie towards luffy throughout that whole fights. If that wasn’t the case kat would have easily beaten luffy. The luffy vs kat fight is one the most situational and conditional fights in the whole series.
I’ve seen debates about Kid and Law being stronger than Zoro.
I get Narratively its easy to assume that, you know 3 Captains and 2 Right Hands, but honestly watching their fighting abilities. I just don’t see it. Even saying Killer is on Par with Zoro, thats a little more fair but to me theres one big problem.
The thing is from the 3 of them is Oda almost never shows them using Haki.
I could think of multiple examples where they could have used Haki and Multiple techniques where Haki could be implemented in but its kind of insane that they don’t show Haki for those characters.
Even if i put Luffy, Zoro and Law in the Ch. 1079 Situation, Law and Zoro should end up the same way Kid & Killer did right?
Im not being a rabid, Toxic Power Scaler, but if theres something im missing, i wouldn’t mind learning what exactly i am missing.
Ah yes, because characters years apart would of course have a close fight
Some people were comparing kuzan with kataturi😂.
Haven’t watched the video yet. Katakuri is my glorious mochi king but I always knew he would lose to King because of his inability to do any meaningful damage to King in his flame form. I’ve always thought Katakuri with advanced armament and conquerors could easily beat king, but he just doesn’t have that bc of power creep. I’m intrigued to see what you have to say.
Very reasonable, I believe that a match up like this could've gone either way if Luffy didn't get one shot by Kaido
@@El_Eon_ well it’s a good thing pudding was captured by the main villain of the series. You already know Kat’s going to pull up, and there’s no way Oda won’t give him a power up. I can’t wait to see it
@@currypiece Truuuuueeeeee I'd be willing to revisit this if we ever get any new katakuri Feats
@@El_Eon_COOK🗣️🗣️
With that mindset I guess when you saw how crocodile performed at marineford a few months after losing to luffy without gears, you must have called bullshit on that
So I believe katakuri vs king is a lot more closer then people think. Personally I think katakuri beats king.
First of all I believe katakuri got powercliffed it's not that much but people take it and run for the hills. Just because kaido one shot luffy at the beginning of wano doesn't mean he can't do it to king as well so why make this argument that kat got powercliffed. You say everyone on the rooftop is shown better feats against luffy act 1 really my dude it was a team fight if it was a 1v1 killer,law,kid would have gotten one shotted.
Where I think kat got powercliffed was when characters who use acoc and ryou ish. Anyone that doesn't kat is still up there. Is snakeman luffy faster then king? I believe it's close and maybe snakeman might be faster. There's evidence that point to snakeman being faster (spoilers for anime only) snakeman is keeping up with kizaru who is made of light and clearly faster then king. Kizaru had to accelerate faster to knock out snakeman. 2. Kaido had to use future sight on snakeman by default gives katakuri fs. Ik that people are going to point to luffy gotten stronger with his fight with kaido not once does it state that acoc can boots your speed attack power yes but not speed. Not only that certain instances I belive luffy just did a reaction of a move not really him being faster against certain kaido moves.
I believe kat can catch up with king in terms of speed. Kat is a lot smarter then zoro so he can figure out king weakness lot more faster then zoro can. I believe his mole spear can pierce king flame off skin. Plus kat has special armanment that is stronger then base armanment. I think wholeheartly that his special armanment can hurt king. Kat has the endurance 11hrs of fighting small breaks in between. Awakening can stop king movement suffociating him or slow him down that kat can pierce him with his mole spear or galatic donut. What does king have that can really damage kat like plz tell oh his fire attacks cool not like kat can dodge or counter in some way. All kat has to is figure out king weakness and keep up with the speed. Katakuri has so much in his arsenal that I believe he can beat king.
Bro i just got done explaining and you said it so simple
You are spitting facts
People really ignore zoro following and tagging king eith Trash observation haki
Katakuri with Adv. Observation cant do that??
Katakuri is literally shutting king down before he tries
Unstoppable donuts appears next to king and he is done
8:45 he said this like its insane
The guy with trash perception got perception blitzed
Okay
Katakuri is Literally perception
He is not Getting blitz in any way
Roof Top happens, but instead of The Worst Generation its the Akatsuki. Idk if you gonna take this as a narrative based fight or a classic versus but this is just something I wanna see
Thats kinda easy for Kaido, especially when most of the akatsuki gets soloed by katakuri, if not all of them
@@G-LukeJA Other than Obito who cheeses the first few hits cause of Kamui, they probably die. None of the Akatsuki are shown to handle anything near Kaido's physical strength. Just ask if the Akatsuki can take on 8 Gates Guy. Besides cheesing the fight with Genjutsu, they probably die to Guy.
I think a big thing overlooked in this analysis is that Luffy was pissed off the first time he fought Kaido, Luffy's anger literally blinded him since you need a calm mind to use Future Sight. You said if Katakuri fought Kaido, it would be the same result as Luffy but Katakuri in character has FS active, Luffy had every indication that he didn't.
The number 1 difference between Luffy when he first fought Kaido versus the rematch on Onigashima was Luffy's understanding and utilization of Haki. Take note of how calm Luffy is on the Rooftop, how he immediately uses Future sight to dodge attacks, or how he utilizes Snakeman, a future sight-focused form.
We see in the Katakuri fight how significantly FS affects reaction and combat speed, Luffy didn't have the mindset to utilize FS.
So was Luffy powercliffed or was he incapable of utilizing his haki to the fullest due to uncharacteristically losing himself to haki?
I think the speed disparity between beginning of Wano Luffy and Rooftop Luffy is largely carried by the focus on Futuresight, the same way Luffy's AP is carried by his Advanced Armament and Conqueror's.
Early Wano Luffy + Futuresight + G4 Snakeman is probably faster than Zoro.
Yes, Zoro can combat Kaido's speed but the speed gap between Yonko and YC isn't nearly as wide as the AP and DC gap.
Luffy's speed in G4 has been consistently capable of tagging Yonko and YC tier characters. Both Sanji and G4 Luffy could react to Big Mom in WCI who is relative to Kaido.
King required his Flames Off form to damage Zoro meaning that with Flames on he's too slow.
King would have to use Flames off to combat Katakuri's speed + Future Sight, with his flames off he's vulnerable to counter attacks and Future Sight is perfect for Counters.
I think this is a matter of Haki surpassing all. Katakuri's haki mastery is way above King's and that makes a huge difference.
@@hostjoe Luffy is relative in speed to Katakuri with or without future sight by the end of Whole cake. Even if he got blitzed without future sight a stronger and faster version did get blitzed with future sight.
There is no way to scale Katakuri's speed to Rooftop speeds since a weaker version in base was capable of even tagging Katakuri and drawing blood when he didn't have future sight.
Kat's "superior" Haki is also irrelevant in every instance where King has his flame on and King could keep up with Zoro easily enough with flame on.
can you post buggy sama vs sukuna ❤❤❤❤❤
Nah, you got it wrong about King. The only attacks that injured him were conqueror's attack when he had his flames *OFF.*
So that's even more impressive.
That means even after scarring Kaido and getting a power up on top of that, Zoro could still not even scratch King when he had his flames on his back.
I dont agree at all. Power cliffing should only be assmed when theres no other option. And the ONLY argument for this is Kaido one shotting Luffy wich is misunderstood.
Luffy was caught off guard, due to the state of his mind. Didnt see it coming nor used armament to block.
In Udon he learns advanced armament to hurt Kaido.
When he goes to to roof and dodges Kaido's thunder bagua IN BASE, he says its because of using future sight
He doesnt say anything about his supposed thousand times amp in speed or something
He says future sight
Wich he didnt the first time because he wasnt calm, thus couldnt dodge or deffend
Luffy is not suddenly faster and stronger in base than he was 2 weeks ago in boundman
No, hes fighting calmly abd with a new power
So no, Katakuri wouldnt have bee one shotted, he would have dodged, way easier than base Luffy.
Could Katakuri hurt Kaido? No
But thats something else
Advanced armament does give Luffy more power to hurt Kaido
But Katakuri is DEFINITELY not getting one shotted and hes perfectly comparable to King
Hence why Perospero is put around tobi roppo level, when hes like 3 tiers bellow Katakuri
Arguing Perospero is equal or stronger than Katakuri, or even close to him, is just being oblivioud to the story's intentions
Again, the power cliff should only ve assumed if absolutely necessary
In this case EVERYTHING makes way more sense and doesnt stop making sense if you take Luffy being one shotted as what it is, a slip
Luffy and his forms didnt get any faster, armament and conquerors dont amp speed, much less thousands of times wich is what this logic requires
Yet snakeman pushed Kaido to use future sight, Katakuri fights at those speeds
Him vs King is a very tight match
“Luffy was caught off guard, due to the state of his mind“
At best this only means that Luffy couldn’t rely on observation Haki, but he still had eyes and plenty of time to see Kaido several/tens of meters away from him.
.” Didnt see it coming nor used armament to block.”
He’s in a form where most of his torso/arms are covered in armament Haki, whether or not he saw it coming (which did but couldn’t react to) his defenses were up.
@@michaeldorsey9231 1-Kaido is fast, so much that Luffy using future sight didnt fully dodge it, tho he was in base, it shows Kaido's speed
Luffy didnt expect it and wasnt using observation, as he says the second time
2-He doesnt have armament in his head, you can see him PUTTING it in his head when he does the Bell attack in Gear4
He didnt use armament to block because he didnt see it coming
In any case, him boosting his speed 10 thousand times and noone saying nothing about it, everyone keeping up including Perospero, is a stretch
Specially when we have this explanation pretty much spelled out
Going back through the manga, yeah there was plenty of indication that Kaido had hit Luffy’s unprotected head.
Given what else is shown though, even if Luffy had his head protected I don’t think it would have made a difference. G4’s Haki coated fists couldn’t do anything to base Kaido’s unprotected skin, meaning G4’s Haki AP scales lower than Kaido’s durability, which would entail that Kaido’s conqueror’s coated club would scale above G4’s Haki durability.
To be fair, when Luffy got one-shot by Kaido, he probably wasn't using future-sight due to being enraged. Thus, the version of Luffy that got one-shot is weaker than the one that went even with Katakuri. It does still mean Katakuri gets one-shot by Kaido, but he might be able to dodge him in base. I don't think this means that Katakuri could beat King, after all it only makes them relative in speed at best, but it makes the power cliffing slightly less egregious.
@@crushcreate1461 Rooftop Luffy was using future sight and he's faster than post WCI G4 Luffy. Katakuri is relative to Luffy in speed by the end of the arc so I don't believe he could dodge it.
@@El_Eon_ I was talking about initial Wano Luffy getting one-shot by base Kaido. Rooftop Luffy is a different story, but I don't remember him getting one-shot either. He takes a few hits for Kaido to put down.
The only real comparison to Katakuri we have for speed is initial Wano Luffy, who was only comparable after learning future-sight, and likely wasn't using it due to being enraged in that first fight. I don't think it is 100% certain that Kaido simply blitzes Katakuri in base. He is certainly capable of one-shotting him, but he might need to try just a little to hit him.
@@crushcreate1461 rooftop luffy is faster than early wano luffy. He should also be faster than katakuri. He was using future sight when Kaido blitzed him on the rooftop. Why would Katakuri be any harder to blitz when a faster version of a Luffy still couldn’t dodge kaido?
@@El_Eon_ I don't remember Kaido blitzing Luffy on the rooftop. I guess I'll have to give that a reread. If that is the case, then yes, Katakuri would get blitzed and one-shot.
I was basing my argument on the blitz during the beginning of Wano. Katakuri should be able to keep up better than that enraged Luffy.
@@crushcreate1461 the second blitz should be somewhere around chapters 1001-1003.
I'd argue that the fight is way closer than the video explains, this is based on speculation to the similarity of Lunarian Flame vs Haki in that both abilities are only viable as long as the user has stamina.
For instance, Luffy knew he could beat Katakuri by simply wearing out his opponent gradually, which is not how he wanted to win but was a viable condition for victory.
Zoro, on the other hand, got something of a deus ex-machina by virtue of Enma's hunger for Haki. This increase in attack power likely drained King's stamina to the point that the latter was affected despite suffering no physical damage. King wanted to end the fight early before Zoro caught on to this so he spent his energy on a finisher instead.
Katakuri can likely press King consistently until King's stamina ran out, prompting the latter to attack by means of AOE attacks like the flaming dragon. The deciding factor will then be whether King's speed form/AOE attack can catch Katakuri, and if Katakuri can affectively and consistently hit King, who's biggest strength includes flight.
I think It really depends on who's attacking and defending, and will ultimately end in a standstill 50% of the time.
@@enclave1014 what's stopping King from just standing there and taking all of his hits with his flame on? Katakuri has no way of hurting him. You would have to prove katakuri is still as fast as King. Gear 4 Luffy May not have been using future sight, but he should be relative to katakuri in speed by the Time of his first fight with kaido. His base by the time of the rooftop is not only faster than gear 4 and possibly faster than katakuri but he still got blitzed by kaido in base. Zoro fought hybrid kaido who should be many times stronger and faster than his base.
King could perception blitz Zoro with his flame off. Why would I believe that katakuri can keep up with flame off King when at best he still gets blitzed and one shot by kaido and King should be faster than base Kaido based off of Feats with Zoro?
@@El_Eon_ Kaido only blitzed Luffy because his future-sight was down due to being enraged at believing his friends had died.
Zoro could still react and counterattack King in his speed form without future-sight, which is the farthest thing from a blitz. King likely isn't much faster than Katakuri, who is still faster than Luffy at the start of Wano.
The determining factor is STAMINA. King's (And by extension all Lunarians) flames likely consume stamina to avoid damage, hence why shutting it off increases speed as they can direct more energy to movement.
Katakuri is also a Conqueror's Haki user with stronger armament than Luffy. King can still get hit and would probably spend stamina for invulnerability. It's going to be a drawn-out fight as King will have a hard time hitting Katakuri.
@@enclave1014I think an important thing to also remember is kaido was holding back and just taking attacks to the point where big mom told him to start dodging. I personally think this battle depends on king weakness and if katakuri can make king turn his flame off. Flame off king imo does not have the feats to take out katakuri due to how fast katakuri is. However if kat can’t take kings flame on then king wins it just I personally think he can.
Smh yall mfs slow, katakuri only got powercliffed by luffy. Not to mention that katakuri didn’t even take his fight seriously against luffy.
"He didn't take the fight seriously against Luffy", ok, so he doesn't respect him, got it. That was the start of their fight, he acknowledged him as an equal near the end.
8:11 "master it" mf zoro aint hitting that attack ever in his fck life on purpose.
Zoro doesnt master sht , he didnt even knew basic conq haki.
When haki comes grom the blade but not the user , we can safely asume that enmma bring out adv conq haki for that exact attack but wont do until zoro is on his last end and uses , those same type of attacks.
“When haki comes grom the blade but not the user , we can safely asume that enmma bring out adv conq haki for that exact attack”
Except that’s not his that works at all; Enma was the driving force behind Zoro’s growth, but by the end of his fight with King he was the one willingly putting his conqueror’s Haki into Enma, the entire point of the fight was Zoro demonstrating his willingness to put everything on the line through his haki.
Give me some captain Kuro vs first appearance Buggy
@@mceky89 buggy slams cause Kuro can't cut him
you should make a video on if luffy would be able to beat all of zoro's opponents as in most arcs luffy is stronger then zoro but them being swordman would give them a leg up against luffy. have especially being think about luffy vs kaku
I understand the idea behind this but besides Mihawk, Luffy should still win against all of Zoro's opponents. The weakness to bladed attacks isn't as important since he's fought and beaten the stronger enemies by comparison.
@@El_Eon_ ok
Zoro did not use advanced conquerors vs kaido. The vivra cards just confirmed it’s only conquers when black lightning is coming out.
No its literally in the manga enma is forcing his haki out including his conquers haki
Powercliff is the only argument ppl have when it comes to this subject. when katakuri is faster, way smarter, way more versatile, has better hax, and has better haki (all 3 btw).
king is a gimmick fighter, katakuri would easily figure out kings gimmick and at that point hes still slow and has base zoan durability. katakuri in 6
@@fuzzo2734 I genuinely don't understand what people mean when they say a character is "smarter " then another character, especially when intelligence can't be measured by any metrics, at least in within the realm of anime.
@@El_Eon_ for example king was ranging Zoro perfectly and then decides to clash swords with him for no reason at all.
Katakuri looks into the future and acts accordingly with either a bigger/stronger move or of if he really needed to he could just dodge it.
He never stopped or got cocky and switched his ways. He simply kept using his most efficient way of fighting and never let up.
Bro can you make a video about Zoro vs Yorichi my friend dosent believe that Zoro can take Yorichi
@@Vitz7 I can cook something up
@@El_Eon_ let it be better than Gordon Ramsay's beef Wellington
@@Vitz7 ngl if I make this video a ton of people are gonna ask why since it's a curb stomp in every way possible
@@El_Eon_ ya that's a good point but many new gen fans are delusional they think Yorichi can beat Zoro cause Tanjiro was able to cut a stone before joining demon slayer academy..i told them Zoro is different and power scales are way larger on one piece they say yorichi nearly one shotted muzan tf ....that's why I was curious and requested u to give a full stop .
@@Vitz7 well just because I make a video doesn't mean that the debate is going to end anytime soon. People are going to be stubborn about a topic for one reason or another. Either way just show them Zoro cutting pica or the hill in Wano after he gets enma and that should pretty much end the debate right there
You have to consider the fact that Zoro needed COC and the hack to hit King to defeat him. Meaning even with flames off, when he is ultra fast, you need the most powerful attack to put him down. That is how broken he is.
Greenbull has the ultimate hack DF, he doesn't "Damage" you, he takes your nutrients and water out of your body its like if Ceasar Clown sucked the air around you dry, wtf is durability to damage, armament going to do, lol
So what’s up with emission haki
It’s not realy well fit for any other type of haki and is the only technique without an advanced version what would this work like and is it worth talking about?
@@dantesdragolic4292 I've already gone over it in my Haki explained video
Yo can you do a Luffy power scaling video as I don't know where he scales to, For me he is around Continental with FTL+?@@El_Eon_
I’ll rewatch in case I missed something and come back
@@dantesdragolic4292 Just in case, emission appears to lean towards defensive capabilities. One of the clearest examples is when the 3 Admirals stopped Whitebeard's shockwave from destroying the execution platform. It's not shown specifically because it's pretime-skip era, but it's a safe deduction that's what the Admirals used.
Ok so it’s advanced armament haki similar to ryu without the
Eviseration or explosive properties
This seems to be powerful but unpopular because it requires both of your arms to use and is nothing but a basic push back
If oda uses this beyond emmession being a precursor to ryu it will likely be a sorta conk emission
Omni directional and wouldn’t require any limbs to create more like bonding the basic conk haki does
You called it intimate right?
I believe this would function as ether a zoning or movement ability
Like using conk coating from range (all speculative but all armament and conk Jamie should have compatible uses as seen with conk coating)
What do you think normal emission is used for, maybe escaping traps or win cons??
Should acoc have an exact multiplier or is it best left vague
@@planetbirthday6859 going off of the minimal multipliers for gear 2-4 and assuming it's at least 2x stronger than Gear 4 would put it somewhere around a 60x multiplier
@@El_Eon_, interesting, thanks for your thoughts
I would reccomend garp vs Rayleigh
@@silvereyedlionking21maybe not a complete versus battle since there isn't enough information for me to give an accurate result but I like the idea.
old man who exercises vs old man who doesnt
While I also think Kat can't win against King, Kat literally evened the playing field with Luffy after skewering himself. Luffy's 14 hits was augmented by Kat's major self-skewer.
Also, Oda gives surviving enemies ways to get stronger too. *coughs*Don Krieg in New World*coughs*
Why don't they just move at the speed of light and travel to the moon in 3 seconds? You can't lose a fight if you're not even on the same planet as your opponent 😂😂😂
Do Kaido vs Frieza next
@@themoon751 he loses to every version of Frieza
@@El_Eon_ Kaido vs Saiyan Saga Vegeta then?
to be fair, luffy got one shot because he wasn't using future sight as he was angry so katakuri wouldn't lose of one attack like luffy .I also think specific ability allows him to bypass durability of kaido's scales. if you put killer in the same place as act 1 luffy, he's also getting one shot.
@@ddj194 I have to disagree, he literally took less hits than Luffy and still went down.
You also have to ignore the fact that a much stronger version of Luffy was using future sight against kaido on the rooftop and he still got tagged. You can maybe argue that katakuri could Dodge base kaido with future sight, but you can't really argue the same against hybrid Kaido.
I also disagree with the last point considering the kind of writer Oda is and how deliberate he is with all of his choices.
I do not believe he would have ever have put killer on the rooftop if he couldn't at least tank the emperors attacks. It wasn't just a matter of can we hurt kaido, They also have to be able to fight and react to him in big mom.
I think the biggest issue I have with using Luffy vs Kaido as a bridge has to do with equating Luffy and Katakuri's stats perfectly in the scenario. While I agree that Katakuri would've likely been one-shot in the same scenario, I'm not one board with saying that he couldn't damage Kaido because Katakuri has more methods of dealing damage outside of just raw blunt damage. I think a lot people never factor in the type of attack a person uses and just looks at everything as a case of raw numbers. I agree that Katakuri would do no damage if he ran at Kaido and tried to punch him but his spear attacks are an entirely different type of attack that we don't have a point of comparison for, since Luffy wasn't able to outright tank them, instead just barely being able to minimize damage by dodging enough that they missed vitals.
That being said, King still low-mid diffs him.
@@PlanetDiablo16967 what exactly about his spear would allow him to pierce kaido's scales? It doesn't seem to have any special attributes to it and the most he could do is stab kaido. There really isn't much to go off of to say that his spear could definitively Pierce kaido's scales
From what I could tell in general, Kaido seems to more susceptible to bladed weaponry than blunt force. If the red scabbards can nearly reopen his old wound, I don't think it's really a stretch that Katakuri's spear could deal minimal damage to Kaido's scales. Again, I don't think it really changes the outcome and the response could just be that the scabbards' combined AP complete dwarfs Katakuri's which is like... depressing but not impossible. But I still just think it's something worth considering.
@@PlanetDiablo16967 The samurai used Ryou to cut Kaido and they failed even doing that. Ryou is advanced armament Haki which Kat doesn't have not to mention Zoro and Killer tried to cut Kaido in Base early into the fight and all they did was leave a bend on his neck.
Yea boy you slow…. points aren’t valid at all. If there’s a way I could definitely change your mind on this.
And you think calling him and everybody slow is proving that you're right? No feats, no statements, no nothing, give up already 😂
@@quandaviousgooch4726 go check your comments
While I mostly, if not fully, agree with this assessment, I would also say that powerscaling fights doesn't really work in the actual story of One Piece. Based on powerscaling, Crocodile should have died a thousand times in Marineford. So while Katakuri doesn't stand a chance based on what we've seen from both of them, if they actually fought in the series, you know it would be a much closer fight.
My reading is that Croc simply got stronger in prison (similar to Luffy in Udon), or that he possibly regained strength that had waned since he spent most of his career as a warlord in one of the least dangerous islands in the Grand Line.
@@michaeldorsey9231 Luffy was training in Udon. Croc was stuck on Level 6.
Croc did also have the prison fight before he was transferred to Impel Down, albeit one fight nerfed with sea prism stone wouldn’t account for his strength increase.
Peak vid fraudakuri gets slammed
I don't think luffy was using future sight when he was one shoted. you need to be calm and luffy was absolutely livid at the time.
still agree with the result over all
@@alicepbg2042 He may not have been but consider that katakuri should be relative to gear 4 give or take a bit faster and yonko Luffy who is faster than gear 4 was using future sight and still got blitzed.
@@El_Eon_ true. it's partly why I agreed with the result. doesn't really change much in the end.
Marco with base armament haki was able to draw blood from both King and Queen with basic kicks. I don't see how Katakuri would be incapable of damaging him when he possesses a spear and has relative speed to Marco.
How does Kat have any scaling to Marco though?
@@michaeldorsey9231 How does he not? I would love to see what you are thinking
Because in AP Kat at best scales to/below Kuri G4 Luffy, who couldn’t hurt Kaido, who could be cut/scratched by Zoro in his stronger forms, who couldn’t do damage to any of King’s forms when he had his flames on.
Even being generous and saying King is only relative to Kaido’s durability, that would make his toughness far more impressive than Kat’s AP, which would logically make Marco’s scaling that much more impressive if he could actually make a flames in King bleed.
Heck, Marco also has better relativity to Yonko and Admirals than Kat does.
@@michaeldorsey9231 So now I want to ask you, what do you think the value of being the right hand man of an Emperor means in regards to relativity between other right hand men?
“what do you think the value of being the right hand man of an Emperor means in regards to relativity between other right hand men?”
Absolutely nothing; being the number 2 on an entirely different crew does not mean you have relativity to any other vice captains, even if your crew shares similar prestige (ie, Mr 1 and Alabasta Robin aren’t remotely as strong as Doffy’s Officers in Dressrosa despite both working for Warlords).
I really think Oda wrote himself into a corner with Wano, he probably really wanted to set the tension up by having Kaido 1 shot Luffy at the beginning, but couldn't find any way to make it make sense for the cast to actually beat him in the end. I would not be surprised at all if characters from former arcs become relevant again and are suddenly somewhat able to keep up with the cast despite not having had any time to train/get stronger. Narratively, I doubt King is supposed to be that much stronger than Katakuri, Oda just wanted Zoro and Killer to fight Kaido and it kinda destroyed the power scaling.
Bro how much do you earn through youtube
I like the idea that a fight between these 2 would stalemate. Katakuri can't damage King cause his durability is too high, and King can't damage Katakuri because he dodges every single attack.
The 1st commanders all seem to be "lock and key" opponents where you need a specific tool or ability to even have a win condition.
For Katakuri that's future sight. No matter how fast you are, he sees the attack a few seconds before it happens. Unless you can also see him dodge and change your attack accordingly, you wont hit him.
For king it's conqueror's infusion. If you don't have AP on that level, which so far is only possible through conqueror's haki, then it's just impossible to damage him.
I don't like the powercliffing argument because we've seen that older characters reintroduced are always much stronger, even when they had no opportunity to do so. Look at Crocodile for the best example of that hapening between alabasta and impel down. I have no doubt that if katakuri was to appear again the difference in stats would significantly decrease, even if he didnt do any kind of training between then and now.
I do think King would win in the end, but it's much closer than you think. Katakuri's only win condition is getting conqueror's infusion or suffocating King. Both of those are incredibly unlikely to happen. Even factoring in seastone/the ocean king keeps his durability, and has a flying devil fruit to avoid falling in water.
@@Aj-py8en Kat can't use Conquerors infusion and he scales in speed to a pre Wano Luffy. He should be slower than the Rooftop version that did use Future sight and got one shot
I actually think katakuri could win because he is a great counter to king. As we know king is impatient and will go in his speed form to Finnish the battle faster. The moment he changes form he will get hit with a full power attack from katakuri since he has future sight and can anticipate when that happens. I think three of those hits could be enough to finish king of. Over all he is weaker than king but I think he has the advantage over him because of personality and hax
nah because katakuri's AP is way too low to do meaningful damage to king's flame off form and i i'm pretty sure king is also faster than him with his flames off. also remember luffy beat katakuri with 14 hits and post prison training luffy was doing no damage to kaido, zoro scarred kaido and was getting beat on by king. also kinga can fly and has better range than him
tbh i don't think he gets past killer
@@jeffyboi8192if he didn’t have his spear I’d agree but because he has it his AP is still deadly to king.
@@Ty-cx5zjMogura cannot pierce King.
@@Ghostface833 flame off king it can