Akropolis Review: We Tile Laid This City
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- Tom Vasel, Zee Garcia, Chris & Wendy Yi take a look at Akropolis!
Intro 0:00
Overview 1:01
Final Thoughts 4:57
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BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3... - Hry
wendy yi stickin to 'er guns! nice!
really nice points for your reasoning!
I appreciate these reviews as you get multiple perspectives. I’m totally with Wendy’s score on this one, it has gone down well in my game group and won best game at UKGE. I found it quite light and breezy to play but sure the scoring is swingy. I can win/lose by a big margin. However, it is a 20-30 minute filler game. I know what they meant about first player but it feels important in the context of taking 2 tiles from a display, particularly if you are first in a round with lots of plazas.
I don’t know what pricing is like in the US but I also thought it was really good value for money at £25 RRP in the UK.
Given this for my birthday by a wonderful friend. Watched your review and was dismayed with the guys reactions and was worried about opening it because of the low reviews. Took it to my Boardgame club and it was a hit with the group. We played the game 3 times over the evening and would possibly have played more if the venue wasn't closing. After the first game we chucked in all the variants which was fun sand added a bit more complexity. Will update this after I have played a bit more.
Actually, first player token is very important, because the 1st player each round actually takes 2 tiles, where as everyone else takes 1 tile.
My only point on first player is it didn't need its own rule in the rulebook since the next person clockwise who would have gone becomes first player and goes next after the market refills. It reminds me of the Carpe Diem star vs circle layout, if you're familiar with that.
@@DTChrisYi we found it useful a couple of times as we played with a semi-distracted player who would always forget if they were supposed to take a single tile that round or take first and last... the token was a good reminder for them...
@@balbright That makes sense. I could see that helping.
We might need to bring back Tom is wrong segment!
After this and Wormholes, I’d agree! :)
Is it uncomfortable in here? Ummm, no there’s no silent tension going on in this room. LOL! Thankful for all the different perspectives The Dice Tower team brings to the table on game reviews.
Tom's face after the "8.5" LOL!!!
I love these reviews with multiple points of views!
The drafting in this is superb, so much better than other drafting games where taking a key piece to stop an opponent is just bad for you. In this game, you can cover it up and so taking it isn’t a “waste.” I am so on board with Wendy here.
This game is such a "Kingdomino killer" for me. I like the different ways of scoring for the different terrains. I also like the stacking of tiles (I guess I should look for those other games being referred to in the review because I dont know them.) Kingdomino just became bland for me with all the same terrains with no 3D.
If Kingdomino deserved a seal of excellence, giving a seal of excellence for this one make sense.
Totally agree with Wendy for this one because this game deserved at least a seal of approval.
I love reviews with multiple reviewers discussing the game, a format pioneered in the Miami Dice series and continued in the Four Squares series. I hope it becomes the standard review format in Dice Tower from now on.
Tom already said it is going to be more standard to have reviews with multiple people. Sometimes 2, others 3 or 4
@@m-sousa He actually said ALL reviews from now on will be like this
Tons issue I don’t understand. He doesn’t have that issue with Cascadia. You can’t plan with Cascadia either. You can want a certain animal that Doenst come out or it does and somebody else drafts it. It you need certain lands to line up and the land types aren’t right for what you need. You just have to go with the flow.
Go Wendy!
Respect for the crew, for honoring the single voice of the team and being welcoming about different opinions.
Totally with Wendy on this one. Akropolis is an excellent game. But I do agree with Chris too in the sense that I also prefer Kingdomino (it was clearly an inspiration for Akropolis). That being said, it's difficult to beat a game that is for me a masterpiece (10/10 in the "light family/gateway" game category) xD. Akropolis is still a great game in this realm though.
Wendy is right!
I agree everyone and every score given. Building high and planning spacial element is fun. But once you start to try actually winning, the math and swinginess from the multiplier tiles really frustrates me.
I love this game, easy to teach, plays very quickly and is puzzly enough.
I think this is the strangest "seal of excellence" I've ever seen, but at least it tells us how it works :). It's the highest...because if you took average I don't think it would make it...
boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/302772/dice-tower-faq
Thats how it works. If they review phase 10 and Chris gives it an 8.5 because it triggers his nostalgia, it gets a seal of excellence even if everyone else rates it a 1. Think of the awards as less of a metric and more of a participation trophy.
@@grog3514 the awards are an opinion. Like has been said before if Wendy for instance was the only reviewer of the game and gave it 8.5 then it would have received the award, but if Chris reviewed it then nothing. It is always opinion, but everything in this hobby more or less is. If they give it an award I am more likely to learn more about the game than not. They could all give it a 10, but to me it may be meh so the award still plays out the same relative to my perspective. What you really need to do is watch the play thru/rules overview and see if the game is for you.
@@grog3514 It is important to note that these aren't random reviewers off the street. Tom pays these people a salary because he trusts them to review games on his behalf.
IN FACT one of the questions during the interview is "would you give Chinese Checkers a 7/10 or higher"! I made that up, but the point stands.
That look on toms face when he realizes he has to give this game the seal of excellence, lol.
This is a problem with their scoring system. So many games now will get a seal of approval/excellence. Between the 7 of them, odds are one of them will like any given game. IMO, it really cheapens the "seal"
@@comd4365 it's a method that's transparent, go by the words of the opinions and see what resonates with you. Don't just go by and award.
Played at Essen a 3 player game. Bought it right away. I rate it 8/10 right now.
Thank you, thank you, thank you... Nice job, ! This really helps
This game is fantastic! It gets better and better after each game! :)
Love it!
Played it for the first time yesterday. It was a three player game and I had no trouble getting stars. I feel I was fairly diversified among all the colors, but didn't score as well in some of them compared to the other players. I like it better than the guys, but probably not as much as Wendy. I'd say a 7.5 for now, and more plays would determine whether I went up or down or not.
Yeah I can see why people might be bothered by the seals. I’ve watched 3 reviews of games that for the most part seem like they don’t deserve a seal, yet they’ve been given one. Don’t get me wrong, love the reviewing format, hearing multiple peoples opinions but yeah, that part seems a little off. Not really sure how else to do it though.
Regarding the voting on the Seal of Excellence - this game won both the As D'Or and UKGE Best Family Game (both Judges and People's Choice). It's okay because Wendy is right. ;)
But it's not like any jury ever needs to have consensus. For most it's a majority, here Tom has a different ruleset. It's up to him. It's not any different than Tom loving a game and it gets the Seal because he reviews it while everyone else not in the video hates it.
I wonder how it would be if you didn't need to replenish only when one tile remains, but rather like century etc.
Wendy gets it. This game is real good. Kingdomino and Llamaland are relaxing, this one is cutthroat and tactical, planning really matters with what's available while trying to build up.
Highly disagree. I think a 6 might even be too high.
I agree with Wendy. This game is so good! I prefer it to Calico and Cascadia.
Yea this one is a 5 for me. Totally uninteresting.
The face of Tom when he hears that 8.5, priceless !
The discrepancy between the scores is why it’s good to have different reviewers with different tastes. The game just got the As d’Or (French best game of the year award), so Wendy’s review is not so out there.
As is often the case, it comes down to expectations. This is a speedy, welcoming game. If you could see more tiles ahead it would slow the game down. And make it more abstract. You’ve got to plan but also go with the flow. Play defense as needed. There are tough choices when you decide to build up and cover a color. A 6 is low for this game. I’m shocked they weren’t all at 7 or higher. And yes, they missed the importance of being first player.
My point on first player not meaning anything is simply that turn order continues to move clockwise. At the end of a "round" when there's only one tile left, the next person in order becomes first player, but they would go next clockwise anyway. I do think it's a game a lot of people like much more than me, and that's okay!
I’m curious about how your seals work for group reviews. Three of you thought it was mediocre but one person really liked it, so that means it gets a seal of excellence?
Yes, it’s why uno has a seal of excellence. One of the staff highly rated it, and the highest rating given out by one of the staff determines if it gets a seal of approval/excellence
boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/302772/dice-tower-faq
*work
@@thedicetower Thanks! I had assumed it was based on an aggregate or something.
I really wonder why they didn't do the kingdomino type multipliers. Maybe they were worried about being even more derivative....
I like the tile stacking concept. What are better games that have that concept but still play in a 30-60 minute period?
Gingerbread House, Llamaland
Nmbr 9
It would be cool if the seal of excellence had the reviewer’s name or names at the bottom so that it is easy to see who the seal comes from.
That's why you have the review
@@m-sousa that doesn’t help too much if you see it in a store… it just seems like a really minor change that would likely satisfy most people who have a problem with the system
I feel like it would be beneficial for a publisher to pay the dice tower to privately review a late prototype. They have a wide variety of preferences that they could fine tune the game before production. Their voice probably has a significant effect on sales.
Not a good use of their time
@@wolflarson71 It is if they get enough money for it.
@@lastburning Tom has said many times he doesn't play prototypes and I am pretty sure he doesn't want to be paid by companies in that way as even more so the opinions of the dice tower will be questioned.
That would have bad for this game. The game is winning awards. Dice Tower isnt the end all be all of board game reviews my friend.
Regarding Chris's comment about building wide to core all the colors. I did that the first game and scored 107. Built up higher and only focused 3 colors the second game, scored 147.
Tom vs. Wendy about crunch vs flow. You can absolutely "crunch with the flow". The best example is Race for the Galaxy.....
Disclaimer: I've never played this.
With no prior experience with this game, I find myself strongly disagreeing with the complaints Tom gives around the 8-9 minute mark about inability to plan. He describes a hypothetical situation where he decides to play for yellow, then yellow never comes up, until it does but all at once in the same round... etc.
This is a draft game. That's the whole idea of draft games. If you go into a draft having a strategy already, and you force it regardless of the cards/tiles that come up, you pretty much don't know how to draft. The whole idea is about playing based off what comes up. I'm not sure I'm a fan of the game yet, but the complaints in this area from Tom and Co felt pretty insignificant.
Of course it is an 8.5 ! #teamwendy !
So this will sit next to kingdomino origins on a games store shelf, both with a seal of excellence. I think For consumers who don’t regularly watch the dicetower, there will be an assumption that the games are as good as each other, but there seem to have been some significant drawbacks highlighted about this title. I guess the ranking videos are a better reviewers guide - but companies don’t print those on the box
Not that it matters but I don't mind this rating system. I don't know why so many people are irritated. DT is many people not a hive mind. Wendi likes it, if you side with her gamer style and if you're watching or interested in this game. Buy it. It's an excellent game. Doesn't sit MY style but understand for whom it is. Great video!
I think this review highlights why the seals of excellence or approval work with how the DT does them, and always has. Sure Tom, Zee, and Chris all gave it middle of the road scores. However, for Wendy it was great. Hence the seal of excellence. That also means if you agreed with Wendy's points and analysis you probably have a higher likelihood of finding the game excellent yourself. The whole point of the seals of approval and excellence is to show that this game, whatever it is, will probably interest you if you agree with those points provided by the reviewers right? Even if multiple reviewers didn't rate it as high, one did, and that should warrant the seal of approval or excellence if applicable. I also think this particular review perfectly highlights how advantageous the new set up for reviews is as a whole at the DT. More opinions and thoughts is always good. Even if you disagree with them that should still give you more information in the end as to if a game is for you or not.
I love the group reviews but it seems weird that only the highest score counts for awarding it a seal or not. With only 1 out of 4 people liking it, it should not have a seal of excellence. It really undermines the idea of the seals.
Does this game do anything new? Absolutely not. It does however have an It Factor.. it just does what it does VERY well and with minimalist production. That is not to say the production is bad, it is in fact quite good, especially considering the cost. You can learn the game, play the game and pack it away in under 30min. It is also very satisfying to play. I absolutely back Wendy with giving this a Seal of Excellence.
I'm not sure I'd ever play this over Taluva or Kingdomino.
there is no perfect review system, i think as consumers it should be like buying a car, we should be able to try it before we buy it. Lots of movies books games give many people enjoyment even if they were given low reviews by reviewers. The most important part is the gameplay overview and the type of game. See if you like the gameplay at your preferred player count, complexity level, game group style, etc
Dice Tower definitely seem to be an outlier here. Most reviewers seem to really like this one. Maybe they just had a bad initial play or something
Or maybe just people have different opinions? Personally, my initial play (which was with none of the others) was fine.
It looks like the guys completely missed the plot. I’m glad that Wendy gave the right rating to the game at least.
Akropolis is a 20-30 minutes filler. There is strategy but don’t expect Power Grid level maths to win the game. There is luck obviously, like other filler games that got higher rating from Tom such as point salad and kingdomino.
In this game you shouldn’t go just go for the yellow or blue tiles because you rely to the luck of the draw. You want to build an all around strategy so that it’s easier to adapt and not have to focus to just one color.
I have agreed with Wendy in the past for other games, that this one proves I should follow her reviews/ratings more consistently.
This comment section is a s entertaining as the video itself, ha.
Not to disregard Wendy's opinion here (I'm actually really interested in the game), but I guess the seal logic has to be changed if everyone except for one person gives it a 6 when doing multi people reviews ...
I made this comment without reading any other comments 😂. And I see the reactions to it. The reviews are much better in this format. And you indeed should trust your reviewers, that's great!
If it was in the old format, we would never see what the others think. And when I see a game with the Dice Tower seal on it, I'm like whoo nice. Now? No matter how honest, open & goodwilling you are (and I believe you are) this basically destroys every single value the seal has imho.
I can live with that. Watch the reviews!
Why is people so confused and angry about the seal? I love the new format. You can make your own mind if you just pay attention at the review. Every member of the crew reflects a kind of gamer. If for a kind of gamer this game is a blast, like for Wendy in this review, the games deserves a seal. No kind of gamer is more important than other. I think if Dice Tower trust Wendy to form part of the crew her opinion is much valid as like someone else. In the old format Wendy would have reviewed it because she liked it more and had the seal. Is not that difficult to understand.
It's funny too because the 3 bad scores are the real outliers - this game won a fuckton of awards and is very highly rated on BGG. Some of their complaints are also embarassingly weak.
Didn't feel like it deserves the seal, I know they said people who are most likely to love the game would review it, but average of 6.625 and it's seal of excellence, they going to print it on the box and from now on when I will see your seal it won't mean anything because of this new format. Is it really excellent or below average except for one person
It's really no different than before, it's just now that you know how other people at the DT feel about the game. In the past, if only one person reviewed a game - let's say Wendy in this case - then the game would only have an 8.5 attached to it and that's all you would ever know. So, did the seal ever really mean anything in the first place? The seal is a bit of an antiquated idea anyway. Ostensibly, the seal is more for people who aren't watching board game content on a regular basis, but that never made sense because the average Target shopper probably doesn't care if the DT gave it a seal of whatever because they don't even know what that means or who the DT is. And most people who are watching DT videos on a regular basis are checking BGG and their favorite reviewers before purchasing most games.
6 6 6 8.5 and a seal of excellence. I don't know if that's how it should work for group reviews.
boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/302772/dice-tower-faq
Also: 6 6 6 XD
it's quite disturbing to put a seal of excellence with a majority of marks being 6/10. Your seal of excellence sells. Whereas with a 6/10 it's just better than average. You find it fine without more. What I expect from seal of excellence is the more. It's just my opinion and I like to follow you
Why is it disturbing to put the seal of excellence on a game where majority don't rate it that way, and only 1 does? This is how they've always done their seals. I agree their "seals" can often help push a game, or at least get it some extra hype. The whole point of giving a seal of approval or excellence out even when only 1 reviewer rates it that high is to show that the particular game in question sings for that reviewer. Therefore any of us who agree with what that reviewer said will probably find the game excellent as well. Likewise if you feel more like the other reviewers rating a game then you know even if it's excellent for some, it probably is not for you.
Tom mentioned in the past that games were usually reviewed by the person who most enjoyed the games. The only difference between then and now is that now you see more people discussing this (or a) game. If this game had been reviewed by only one person, than it would have been probably Wendy. I get that and don't feel at all to be strange
I’m so confused. This was given a seal of excellence?
Yeah Wendy might be selling this one a bit too high - maybe not played much of this genre? It's fine as the others have said, at most a 7, but yeah turn order can screw you over each and every time your tile turns up that you can't get and like Zee said, you just go for star tiles every time, no sound reason you wouldnt.
This type of game is just my jam, and it isn't from playing other similar games. They tickle the right puzzle part of my brain 😀
there have been lots of games in this genre that have come out lately, this one probably works better at lower player counts, I have seen playthroughs with Jon Gets Games, that I think at 2 it might just give that freedom to be a 30 minute thinky puzzler that the family can enjoy, the time length of the game might make it palatable.
I just remember Toms Unsettled Review…vice everyone else.
Rahdo f.e. loved it as well. Do you think he played not much of this genre? You can always have another opinion, but please stop implying that someone is not competent/experienced enough. At the end of the day boardgame critique is not rocket science. 😏
@@sabine_pic2026 Rahdo loves everything though, or at least says he does.
Huh, I expected higher scores. Bunch of other review channels gave this one high marks for the most part.
Yea Dice Tower has been dunking on game lately lol.
Dunking seems pretty strong. I still give our more positive than negative and mediocre reviews.
The dice tower is many things and one of those is a reviewer. Just like many critics they voice their opinion to help inform the consumer and make the hobby overall better. I really like the expanded format of multiple reviewers on some of the games. The conversation back snd forth is very interesting and helps me understand the reason behind the score. Overall DT has nothing to apologize for and they continue to develop entertaining informative content and Tom continues to evolve and improve the format of his message.
Doesnt make any sense the score should at least be the mean value not the highest score xD
Looks like I'd hate it
Had hopes for this game, but there just isn't much there. The math seems boring and absurdly swingy, and just not much strategy there. Some will enjoy it, and that's great...just a big miss for me.
So scores of (6,6,8.5,
6) = Seal of Excellence but scores of (8,8,8,8) = Seal of Approval. Wut?
Correct, also scores (9, 8, 8, and 3) is a seal of excellence.
I know Tom has mentioned he doesn't care if he gives a game a low score and another dice tower member gives it a high score. But I feel like it really is taking away from what Dice Tower seal of Excellence means. Not sure what the solution would be though. 🤷♂️
Maybe if they do reviews like this, they should average the scores to determine the seal. Average of this would be 6.6. so round to 6.5? Or even round up and it gets seal of approval
No. Any one person can give a seal. If I can do it, so can my staff.
@@thedicetower totally understand. Like I said, I don't really have a solution to the issue I raised. But, the Dice Tower Seal has always meant a lot to me. But in this case, three members of the dice tower giving this game a 6 is much more important information to me than one person's 8.5. But all i would see on the box is the seal of excellence. do you see my concern? It just means going forward I can't just trust the seal anymore. But I'm always happy to watch all your reviews because I still value all of your opinions.
@@rabidpickle But if you watch the review, you have all the info! For years, the seal was just me! If I loved a game, it got the seal; even if the entire playgroup didn't like it. So nothing has changed. And we give you all that info in the review.
@@thedicetower you're totally right. I've never purchased a game just because it has the dice tower seal. I'm still going to watch your review first.
But I still believe a game getting the seal of excellence when a majority of the dice tower does not recommend it feels odd
@@rabidpickle I kind of fee you are missing something.
In the past, and I know Tom already mentioned it at some point, - and when the DT started to be more than TM - the games would be reviewed by the person who mostly enjoyed the game. If it wasn't for this new format, probably you would have only had Wendy's perspective. So what would have been the final difference for the "seal value"?
I think this new format is great, because it gives us viewers more voices and reference points. But people shouldn't get so stuck pn the numbers. In practice nothing has changed, and a 3 for someone can be an 8 for me (or vice-versa)
I honestly don't get why a single voice should dictate the overall message of a "Group" review. Seems a bit lopsided and uninformative to put a seal of excellence on a game, that people are going to see and use to potentially buy a game, when that seal is simply the result of 1 out of 4 people loving it. It'd be like rotten tomatoes dropping out the lower 3/4 of reviews leaving only the most positive.
On the other hand, I get how before group reviews were a thing at the dice tower, the right to review was given to the person who seemed to like it the most. So the result is mostly the same. But I don't particularly love that system either since it silences negative/lukewarm opinions. Why is the positive opinion more valid than the negative one? But even with that system, at least it's not under the guise of "group" reviews, where the "group" actually doesn't have any say in the final score.
I guess the main point is that it would very clearly not be fair if one negative review could overshadow three positive ones. So why is it ok for one positive review to overshadow three lukewarm/negative reviews?
It doesn't overshadow it. You watched the review, right?
@@thedicetower I did watch the review and found it both entertaining and informative. I really like the fact that more voices are being heard. The playing of Board Games after all is a multi-individual endeavor, so the fact that your review format now includes more people is certainly a MASSIVE plus in my eyes and has become very useful to me.
I'm merely repeating the slightly overstated sentiment (To perhaps your justified annoyance), that if multiple people are going to be included in the review, each presenting scores, then those additional scores should have some sort of weight. This is mostly in relation to the Seals of Quality that the Dice Tower award games, which for me as a consumer anyways, is a metric by which I am apt to pick and choose games.
[If the Seal could mean that only 1 out 4 (Potentially 7) reviewers really liked a game, that makes the Mark less useful to me as a consumer]
Ultimately, it's your Show/Brand and I'm just some shmuck on the internet. This is more a gripe than a legitimately damning criticism of your content. I hope I caused no offense in my criticism and hope to continue to enjoy your show for years to come as I have for years previous.