Too Dangerous For Public Roads.
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 05. 2024
- The TVR Cerbera Speed 12, originally known as the Project 7/12, is a sports car designed by TVR in 1997. Based on the TVR Cerbera, the vehicle was intended to be both the world's fastest road car and the basis for a GT1 class endurance racer. However, problems during its development, changing GT1 class regulations and the eventual decision that it was simply incapable of being used as a road car forced TVR executives to abandon its development.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
"even those with money" like they're gonna be the safest drivers
Usually, those with money are more experienced in driving high-powered cars, as wealth provides access to this type of vehicle.
as well as safety features to make up for the lack of skill those ppl have
@@MSAutoSnap Hate to disagree with you but most racing drivers I know don't drive supercars off the track
I agree to that but my comment was more about the difference in handling power between someone used to standard cars and those accustomed to more hp in their everyday vehicles. I get where you're coming from i just dont feel its relevant to what I meant.
@@MSAutoSnapMeans f all about ability or natural skill though. If it's about experience a lot of older people have been on the road for a long time yet still can't drive for manure. Just saying...
I just remember this car being undrivable in Tran Turismo 3.
But a good drift car hahaha
Was my favorite
Who would’ve thought a game named trans turismo would be about cars
Freudian slip?
And in FH4
You know it's dangerous when TVR themselves admit to.
It was made by the British so I really wouldn't trust the quality. Probably missing important bolts.
@@ryelor123 What a ridiculous thing to say.
@@ryelor123 Boeing is American
@@ryelor123 It was made by a few blokes in Blackpool building cars out of fibreglass with no ABS or traction control, what did you expect? 🤦♂️
But, you know that does remind me of a few other cars like the Dodge Viper, the Chevrolet Corvette… but at least those had small engines. Oh wait.
🧐🧐🧐 Americans…
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos Not sorry our shit sounds so much better.
2.9s in the 90s... INSANE
Certainly! It's really nuts timelessly. But this is not as fast as your run of the mill vette nowadays. It's so weird where priorities land year to year.
That's not that incredible. The Buick GNX was pretty close to those numbers.
@@TehButterflyEffect I believe it was just sub 5 seconds for the gnx
@@TehButterflyEffect and far from 240mph.
@@TehButterflyEffectBut close is not the same as is.
Looking at today´s hypercar market, I can´t help but feel TVR had absolute gold in their hands with the Speed 12. While they were absolutely right that it was far too dangerous, especially without modern safety features, they would have been ahead of Bugatti by almost a decade.
They screwed up big time and drove the whole brand into the ground with cost cutting cheap materials on the speed six that this car was based on. They used cast engine internals and sub- recycled soda can alloy pistons that would break every 20-30k Miles with minimally spirited driving. I'm sure they went all out for these prototypes, as they did for the 6.
Nope, nope, nope. TVR could never achieve that. They built "track ready" cars not hypercars. Look at the frames under the Cerberas, look at the crude aero, look at the hardware on hand. The would never have geared it to be a high top speed car. It would have killed anyone who tried to pass 150 mph in it.
They should have stuck with what they knew well. 1050-1200 kg, 350-500 hp thrill rides. This thing only helped their downfall. That could have been a happy niche for them a'la Donkervoort, or KTM automotive. I think the owner let his feelings get the better of him and he threw common sense out the window. It's a damn shame. I think the Sagaris was their winning formula, a car that will impress with performance even today.
@@jafu745yeah sagaris was the best mukbang for buck...cerbera was just likr slapping 1200hp in a styrophone cooler
And it didn't make 1000hp more like 760hp
Seeing how Koenigsegg reached 300 mph this car would be less feared if it hadn't traumatized me in forza motorsport 2
Some people don't know how much safer modern vehicles are. Porsche 930 (Which is a 911 made between `74 and `89) had 282HP and it was nicknamed "The Widowmaker" because people were crashing them. 282hp on 1350kg is a lot! Imagine 1000hp on 1000kg. This is an insane amount of power for a 90s vehicle.
Nowadays kiddos jump in 500-700hp cars, they punch the pedal and they get home safe and sound because modern cars have many safety features.
I can imagine if an untrained driver just pushed the gas on this thing a little too hard you'd spin out and crash at 100 mph immediately. RWDs are already the most dangerous drivetrain, especially one that weighs nearly nothing and puts out the power of a small airplane. they had seatbelts and airbags back then but they didn't often have stability control, collision detection cameras/auto braking, etc
@perkypears well, kinda. He'll crash, but not at 100mph. It's probably going to be at around 30-50mph. I don't know about which car you're speaking, but a small airplane has around 100-350hp so if you're talking about the Porsche, you're right. More than 350hp it's not going to be a small airplane (excluding those very few examples of modified small planes)
Regarding the difficulty in drivetrains, I'd say that the motorcycle drivetrains are more difficult. The RWD is difficult, but it has two wheels moving and two additional keeping the car in place :D
Of course, in practice, keeping a bike in place is easy when the rider has brains.
The 930 Turbo was sketchy because of the severe turbo lag and unstable handling characteristics. Not necessarily the peak power.
This generation is a widowmaker because of the turbo, which had so much lag that when it kicked in, it surprised drivers who were not prepared for such a long delay in the turbo's operation. TVR is a different story - the car had no power assists and operated only on the driver's skills, which, as we know, can vary.
Yeah these had no traction control or stability control
A 1000hp from a Naturally Aspirated 7.7l, V12 sounds pretty Insane for a car developed in the 90's and giving it such power to weight ratio, no wonder!!😳
Can-Am MrLaren ran a GM v8 8.7 ltr NA 850hp 1974.
pretty sure its twin turbo charged.
Oh they could do some insane things with cars. But at some point its like we really gonna hand over cars that can do over 250mph to the public freely? It was the Viper basically that never came. If they built the car now they might have more luck with safety and aerodynamics for driver safety..
@@unkindled6410no it was NA.
The cerbera 3.5 V8 made 350hp NA.
They were doing proper super cars long before ferarri etc who just lobbed turbo's in everything going into the 80's.
@@finlaymcdiarmid5832 ferraris cars were always mostly NA though. Yes the F40 had single turbo but it was one of the more uncommon cases.
That car in Play Stations Grand Turismo is absolutely nuts! So extremely fast. Hard to control.
Same on Xbox in Forza
Gran Turismo 5 is by far the best. 6 is good too though.
Think it got to 280 something mph in GT3 A Spec. Or maybe that was 4. Similar anyway.
My posted comment before reading yours. "Only advanced pro's could ever think of selecting and then managing to drive this beast on #GranTurismo for #PS2." ;]
@@TallerMan.1520 or people that could hack the game and build hybrid cards using the , GameShark, Smart Cartridge or the Action Replay cartridges.
Cancelling the V12 was the end of TVR…this is the car that could of changed everything for TVR
It did....
It was built for Le Mans but the rules changed it’s raced in British GT
Widow maker part 2
Could have*
Never mind, they inevitable lawsuits.
TVR owner Peter Wheeler doesn't sound like a team player... If someone wants to die by V12, then that's their dang right
It is, but I guess he didn’t want that possibility weighing on his conscience.
@TranceFur That's like saying firearms manufacturers are somewhat responsible for the shootings that happen. It's not on their conscience. We have free will. If someone chooses to be a dick, then that's on them. Not the manufacturer. I imagine he simply didn't see the point in making a car that the majority of owners would crash within the first week. Even though it's not a waste of the companies money, as they wouldn't be paying out, it makes sense that he figured it'd be best not to put it into production. If the power isn't really usable, then it's kind of a waste. So I think it's got less to do with him not wanting it on his conscience, and more to do with simply knowing that the power and torque were too great, and not user friendly. Pointless having such a beast if even on a track you can't really go past 1/3 throttle without spinning. Although there are definitely drivers out there that could peddle it and would enjoy the difficulty.
Oh, christ. Is there something that is not a human rights violation or some conspiracy? It was impossible to keep that thing on the road with early 90s technology. This was built on a shoestring budget. Much like the Viper and look how that thing wrapped itself around every tree and telephone pole in the US just for touching the gas on cold tyres. And that had less than HALF the power.
Do you know or realize how big of a power 1hp/kg is? And how little safety features it had? Thats insane power for a car this raw in terms of safety.
In the track? Buy and go use it, no one will care if owner dies.
But most of the buyers would try to use this beast in streets which would result same or even worse than notorious crowd eating mustangs.
@@TranceFur As if someone else couldn't equip them with V12 power lol.
When I first seen the body I thought it was a viper. Similar body shape especially towards the back.
When I first SAW the body, not “seen”. Don’t make yourself sound as if you spent every single day of your life in a trailer park.
@@alphazuluzyou aren’t the language police. Calm down
@@alphazuluzrelax 😭
Ok so its basically a viper on steroids with 2 more cylinders lol
The car the viper wishes it was 😂
And far less weight, better handling and aerodynamics and much better overall chassis/suspension design.
Since when was the viper a tubular space frame?
It kinda looks like an uglier viper that has more power and handling lol
Woow.
TVR always had manufacturing, reliability and budget issues. I dont believe for one second that it was cancelled because it was "too dangerous", unless they were talking concerns about bits falling off it 😆
I think that’s part of the ethics, tbf. Ie: If you’re Peter Wheeler, you know the kind of reputation your cars have, is it really wise to double down on that? 😅 Knowing that you can’t reach the same standards of a Formula One team.
Finally found someone who isn't naive.
Likely the real truth.
That man has a good heart to genuinely realize this and stop production because of that
You're naive as hell if you actually believe that.
Good heart or not it wasnt his place to decide whats best for people. Couldve still produced it and just made it a track only car or smth. If someone cant handle a vehicle thats theyre own fault
@@ThePhantomGodofNightthank God you’re not a CEO . How would you sleep knowing you sold a car that dangerous to a man you just took money from
@TheSmallmoney id sleep no worse than i normally sleep. Its not a companies fault that someone used their product innapropiately, dangerously or recklessly
Actually it is. Case closed. He's a good man so as he practices. Bugatti is more money driven that is their God. But this mans God must be Jesus Christ considering he didn't allow people to literal kill themselves. @@ThePhantomGodofNight
TVR's are underrated cars
Had some quirks and strange problems. But probably more reliable than the average British 70's car by alot.
I've seen this car in the flesh in a car museum and it is glorious.
I saw this testing around Thruxton as a kid . Ripped its spoiler off in the braking zone coming from the back straight lol
That's a TVR alright
@@tiagobelo4965 TVR SPEED 12 MATE , was even in toca touring cars 2 on the ps1 lol
Insane.
What a bummer. It looks like an amazing racecar. They should have done like a TVR cup series
This was my go to car on forza whenever I'd race friends or family. One time my cousin was im picking the Bugatti you'll never beat me and I just like ok and proceeded to smoke him at Lemans lol.
There was though, there was the Tuscan Challenge and the TVRCC.
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos I had no idea.
Wasn't this on Gran Turismo back in the day?
yes GT2
Tvr speed 12. Yes in gran trismo 3
@@MSAutoSnapGT4, 5 and 6 too
I had one, a chameleon teal one😏
This at the top of all the drifting leader boards in GT
I have seen the car in person and it is breathtaking. An all time favourite for sure...it's a shame they couldn't have de-tuned it to be 'slightly' safer as I would have loved to have seen and heard these on the road.
Now that is a responsible man. He's not out for himself.
bs, they had no money.
I was hoping to find this comment as I think he done a very nobel thing. He could have just gone for the money but instead thought about the potential carnage such a machine would have caused on the open road.
It would be right at home with today's hypercars!!! I wish someone would duplicate this "British Viper"!!! .....so much power in a 'miata' ..... the real widow-maker😅..... dammit Wheeler! Maybe SSC (VENOM) could do it
😳I remember when in GT2 this DERANGED Beast From Somewhere More Evil Than Hell👹👺 was undrivable, I mean, anti-drivable😱💀
I can confirm Blackpool is far more evil than hell!!! 💀
Honestly, I respect the creator of the car for not putting it into production. Showed he probably cared a decent bit about peoples safety.
This was my favourite car in GRAN TURISMO 3 and 4 i really enjoyed driving it, it was hard to drive but still every single time i drive it, it brings me joy, A LOT OF JOY.
Hands down one of the most beautiful/magnificent vehicles ever created. Too bad it didn't get more recognition. The segaris is also an amazing looking vehicle
What a pure iconic beast, respect.
The Speed 12 will forever be a gem in my heart. Wow.
Should have detuned it down to 650hp and add weight in the right areas, and still sold it. To scrap the project entirely, was a shame
I saw the Cerbera Speed 12 at a motor show in Birmingham NEC many years ago. It looked mad!
The British are too powerful we had to nerf our selves.
No. You guys do suck.
@@jcgeldenhuys2084lol you say that as though we care about the opinion of an American when it comes to performance vehicles
@adventure_F0x I'm not American bro. But good job at trying to be funny.
@@jcgeldenhuys2084 I wasn’t trying to be funny.
The fact that they sank all that money in to R&D all for the owner to call it off because he was worried it was too dangerous shows the character of Peter Wheeler. Class act through and through.
I’ve noticed that there’s a lot of people (probably Americans) claiming that this car would have “saved TVR.”
Maybe…. If TVR was American. But it wasn’t, it was a small sportscar builder in Blackpool. TVR was at its best making small, 6-cylinder convertible sportscars that matched the narrow, blind and twisty English country roads (there’s not a lot of straight and flat roads in the UK that go on and on for hundreds of miles, there’s no massive central deserts to cross.) So making a car that basically showed off the worst aspects of TVR - to an extreme - really would not have been a sound business decision or a particularly ethical one if the cars would have been shedding parts as they went along. That’s just too dangerous and inhumane.
or in otherwords wanted to avoid lawsuits when some asshat totals his car because they could not handle it, i don't blame him tbh maybe should of made them sign a waver
Now that one-of-a-kind production would worth more than any supercar ✋🤚
Literally my most favorite car of all time
Weak management will ruin a company.
The speed 12 is exactly what TVR needed.
Peter wheeler himself was a former racing driver, if he said smth he and his engineers made was too dangerous. Id trust his judgement
@@prds25386 is TVR still around?
How much torque? Likely a wide enough band to make street driving with WIDE ratio 5 or 6speed a hand full for most.
12 spd was not used in a Dodge Daytona, rest is history & mere One-upmanship...
@@charlesangell_bulmtl i believe there were actual reports of test drivers saying it spun until 5th gear
@@prds25386 sounds like they needed to develop an awd system to match the power.
The owner of the company remembered he’s British and is on the decline. Hence the last minute decision to abandon glory. That car would have been a death trap like most of the super cars of that era. Difference is, those cars were actually made.
In all seriousness, I’m sure this official story from TVR is just a coverup because in reality there’s no way that little outfit was gonna be able to produce dozens of those Cerbera Speed 12s. Way more complex than the cars they’ve been churning out at that point.
I'd imagine the truth is somewhere inbetween. A complex build with plenty of potential gremlins and it was like a kamikazi fighter with 4 wheels. Still a shame it never went into production properly, what a weapon.
In Germany, you can only change a car mirror if it has been specially checked for the model and installed correctly, if that does not fit everything, it is too dangerous for the road and carries high penalties.
No one beats the all-time legend 🔥
Sounds like he got a big enough offer, from a competing company, to not make it.
As a child, I thought it was a Jaguar. Now it is nothing but a distant memory. L TVR
TWR (Tom Wilkinson Racing) did the Jags. I've taken a while to recall either name correctly more than a few times.
This car was the KEY to decimating GT4
I wish we could see a modern TVR with modern safety features. Sure, it may lose some of the spirit, but a super lightweight FR car with that much power would be incredibly cool, hopefully without killing someone.
exactly what I need
The owner of TVR didn’t want the deaths on his conscience… He felt sure the Speed 12 would kill people, it was so raw.
It would have been incredible converted to 4WD.
It’s funny, this car was available to drive in Gran Turismo 2 and it was completely undriveable in the game as well. Even with suspension tuning, full downforce and the longest gear ratios and final drive the game would take, it would like the tires in 5th gear.
I learned so much from trying to fix this car in the game, I was able to jump in and use an alignment rack when I started working on cars in real life.
It's a shame they never made these.
I want that car
The thing about TVRs is they were built in a shed in blackpool and felt like it, they went out of business predominantly because they were very expensive for how unreliable they were and how cheap they felt
When brits start drinking beer 😂
Beer has been drank in Britain since 97CE
Man I remember driving this car in racing games back in the day.lol
Front looks like lotus, back looks like viper... makes perfect sense
What a beast!
Thanks to this genius we don’t have dozens of reckless idiots crashing these things all over the place 👍
*loud mustang noises
This thing was an absolute monster.
I love the fact that bro kept the interior
I love the fact that after thinking about it he came to the conclussion noone was worthy, and I hope he kept the one car for himself.
This thing was a beast in Gran Turismo. You had to really work at it in order to get used to how it handles before you could effectively drive it. Nothing else has been as insane as the Speed 12. I love it. I want one.
This legend has always been one of my most favorite cars ever, and easily my #1 of all TVRs!¡ 👑
Loved driving this car in GT4
TVR made some *absolute monsters*
Neighbour had an opalescent blue/pink TVR Tuscan and 12yo me fkn loved it 😂
Reflex purple was the name of the paint I believe, was factory
I want a street legal 2.5k HP hypercar with down force similar to an F1 car.
buy it then
@@MSAutoSnapno such thing... Doesn't exist
That car was wild in grand turismo 😁
I had a poster of the Speed 12 on my wall as a kid in the 90s. My uncle took me to the Factory in Blackpool and this was my “when I am bigger” car.
I remember driving that thing in grand tourismo. So sick. ...
sick from spinning in circles? :D
Basically just a lightweight viper made by TVR. Would’ve been sooooo sick to own one
Thats not why the project was canceld
Got to see this racing loved the car. There is also two speed 12 but only one has the original engine
One of my all time favorite cars ever
I like how unique and instantly recognisable all TVR models are.
The second I saw the car I said "that's a TVR" they're unmistakable.
That Dyna Mite jingle has no right to be such a banger.
Ngl i was dying when they didnt mute tims mic and you could hear the ecko from the speakers 😂😂😂
bro got that driving empire life 💀💀😭😭🙏🙏🙏
It was actually being developed for the GT1 race group. . But changing regulations and the fact that it was incapable of being a safe road vehicle killed it off. However it was used in the British GT championship a few times. They built 3
The Callaway vett went over 250 in the 70s
actually there is an other who was made by some tvr engineers without the approval from TVR. This car was a gift for a high ranked TVR guy an he sold it years later.
Somewhere in europe, one road legal speed twelve sleep peacefully in a garage.
Power means nothing if it won't hold the road. The McLaren F1 wasn't just a lot of power in a lightweight car. It was engineered by a racecar builder. How do you think it handled? That's a master art that is not easy to duplicate. I saw the back end losing it at low speed in the video. It was probably undriveable and he was right to cancel the project.
People keep talking about how this car lacked "modern safety equipment", but people don't seem to understand that means not having anti-locking brakes, stability control system or traction control combined with a manual gearbox. Even if you knew how to drive supercars this thing would've not been a fun thing to drive especially since the tires they would've used on its rear axle would've had very little grip when cold.
Killing your customers probably doesn't make good business sense
There is one in the lakeland motor museum in Cumbria near windermere, one of the most beautiful cars ever made
Owner: F everyone, I'm the only one who can have this!
The original design (the black silhouette) was in Gran Turismo 2 and Test Drive 5. Maybe some other games had it but I can't remember them.
This updated design is present from the Gran Turismo 3 period and onwards.
Any sentence that uses the words: british cars and dangerous are always 100 percent accurate. Past, present and future!
Robin chasing criminals around Gotham in his road legal birthday gift.
TVR made some of the most ridiculously awesome stuff in the 90s when nobody else was even close
I played this game in grand tourismo I wish to see this car on the road it should be out there in the road TVR
I saw this circa 2010 at the nec Birmingham with new owners and they were putting a Mercedes engine in it. I had a good conversation with it's the owner. I also saw it for sale on ebay and I one of the pictures it was setting a speed camera off in the picture. I'm also sure it was supposed to have 880 hp. Amazing dream car
He knew what kind of people would drive it
And how quickly the car would be deemed as "rich-man's death trap"
"A TVR developed 7.7L V12 engine" literally seconds of fun
While testing 1 bank at a time, they would experience even more parasitic loss, pushing the none firing bank. It would be minimum 500hp per bank when both engine banks fire together
I know what happened, other car manufacturers paid them to stop what they were doing. Basically, "no no- not in OUR market".
Even for those with money ! Bro, only those people would've afforded it !
Honestly, you gotta respect the CEO for putting hit foot down and saying no. At a certain point, risking lives for profit just doesn’t sit right with some people.
Man slipped out from the throttle and looked like a doofus in front of his hometown crush and had to csncel the whole thing
This was one of my favorite cars in gran turismo 2
This was my favorite car in the first Gran Turismo and the second one.
Crazy I remember this! It was on a few games back in the day.
The British equivalent of the Viper but somohow it's even more badass
When even Peter Wheeler says it's way too dangerous and hard to drive, it really is. 😂