Light springs in an 1851 Navy revolver
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2013
- In this video I'll take an Uberti replica of Colt's 1851 Navy London Model from Cimarron Firearms in Fredericksburg, Texas, and slick it up using my normal procedures, and I'll install Slix Shot nipples. Then I'll replace the factory mainspring with an ultra light spring from Wolff Gunsprings, and I'll replace the flat trigger/bolt spring with a Heinie music wire spring. We'll see how the light springs do at the range.
- Sport
Mike, I appreciate the honesty of your videos. When the light hammer spring didn't set off the caps, I think some unscrupulous people would have been tempted to leave that part out. Also, it doesn't bother me in the least that you show the loading sequence every time you bring out a cap and ball gun. It gives the viewer a chance to get a close-up look at the gun you're working with. The viewer can see the finish of the gun, as well as how smoothly the cylinder turns, how easy or difficult it is to load the gun, etc. Great work. Keep the videos coming!!
I agree. I never tire of watching the loading.
Been shooting single shot muzzle loaders for a few weeks but tomorrow (hopefully) will shoot my 1851 for the first time.
I thank you for showing the loading sequences it really does make us newbies have an easier time seeing how it is done!
A very interesting video. I knew nothing about ball & cap revolvers and little about historic firearms. Thanks and I look forward to you next video.
Yet again a find another of your videos covering the exact issues I've been confronting , I love your work my friend
Keep on showing those loading scenes, this is what 30% of the fun I think BTW.
Good work Duelist.... as always
Mike you’re a wealth of knowledge! Keep up the good work!
In self quarantine doing this social distancing so I have been going through all of your great videos. So much good content. Some I even forgot about. Just know that even though there will always be people who have negative things to say, most people are thankful and enjoy the videos.
Very informative video! I totally agree on showing the loading sequence on all vids for the reasons you gave.
This is the first video I have ever seen of a cap and ball and I do appreciate you showing it off. Thank you!
Thank you for the great videos. I learn something from you every time.
Mike, I really enjoy your videos. I particularly like the honesty,it's refreshing to see.Your knowledge of cap and ball revolvers has been an encouraging nudge for me to get involved in blackpowder shooting.
This was something I wanted to do 15 years ago, but friends told me it was too dangerous and too much work.
Thanks Mike for the enjoyable videos,because of your videos I will be spending some money and looking forward to a new experience in shooting.
I think you got me with that last round....Thanks Mike ,I always enjoy your vids.
Thanks for all your vids Mike!!
Colt Navy 1851 an work of art 💖
Props to you, Mike, for showing the (potentially) embarassing results exactly as they happened. One of the reasons I value your videos is because you never hide it if something goes wrong.
Nice job on that final group.
the last group was outstanding !
Another excellent video Mike, thank you.
Bro your awesome keep doing what your doing, especially what you were saying about the loading part, I've seen you do it several times but I can always skip it , but don't as for your cowboy load , I will never carry with an empty chamber and I appreciate your teachings thank you
That last group was perfect 👌
Thanks. Do it every time.
Wow off hand and on target! you sir are a great shootist!
Great video Mike! Thank you!
th i just got the exact same one and you explained it so well thank you
The Navy is really the most gorgeous revolver ever made!
I love your videos!
Would you check out the Navy I’m building?
Thanks for the tool set description on these guns
Like your accuracy - good shooting
A most excellent, fun, and thorough review. I enjoy using a loading lever and paper cartridges. There are many CZcams videos on making paper cartridges using cigarette rolling papers. The double wide cigarette rolling papers make two paper cartridges from one sheet of rolling paper. And using either corn meal or grits for filler inside the paper cartridges. There's a big debate as to whether which is best. Peace
Great video as always Mike. I just grind off on both sides of my factory mainspring with my benchgrinder. I do it just a little at a time on each side of the spring & then test it to make sure it still will pop caps until I grind more. I do that so I won't grind off too much & make the spring too weak. Then I reblue it where I ground it down. The trick is to learn when to stop grinding. I ruined one spring learning. But factory springs are cheap and this way, I can set the tension to my desire.
Drop a #10 stainless steel split lock washer down the arbor channel. This is the "poor man's fix" for the short arbor issue.
Is there a more permanent fix for the short Arbor issue?
GREAT VIDEO
Yeah I just purchased the Pietta 1851 navy .36 cal, I really like this gun, pretty accurate. Both the Springs broke. Hand and Spring & the Trigger bolt spring. I had this gun for one week. I really hope that this is not a common issue. I really do enjoy watching your video's I have learned from watching them.
Try vtigunparts.com. Much better than the originals !
+rstgyro thank you! I will give them a try in the future.
I see, thanks for the insight!
Mike, I am so glad that you realize the importance of including the loading sequence in your cap and ball pistol videos. While it is true that we subscribers have seen the loading sequence many times there is still always that first time for everyone, and seeing your method for loading is extremely useful for novices like myself. When I first saw one of your cap and ball videos I had many questions, most of which involved the loading process: what is the powder charge, do you use lubed patches or not, and if you do, do you grease the end of the cylinders as well, do you use corn meal or cream of wheat cereal between the powder and ball, etc. Your videos have helped me a great deal and besides, they are fun to watch ! Please continue to show the loading process in your videos. I also love the TOW flintlock kit making videos and look forward to seeing them. Great work !
As a new-ish subscriber, I for one appreciate it greatly.
That’s the one I want!
Would love a video explaining the differences in the 1851s
I would add a spacer to the original spring or thin it as mentioned before. Those are very nice pistols and on my list of things to buy. Great video as usual.
Hi Mike, I added the Wolff 32285 reduced power spring to my four Pietta 1858 Remingtons and have had zero fail to fire after many hundreds of shots. However, that same spring in a Pietta 1860 Army showed the same cap fail to fire rate that your video shows. What's nice about using the reduced power spring in both the 1858 and 1860 is that the reduced trigger pull is like having done a trigger job. The reduced power spring is useful using the Taylor conversion cylinders, no firing pin peening.
Good presentation.
The last 15 seconds is a keeper.
yes that OEM main spring taken from the front end suspension of a Freightliner truck drops lile the hammer of Thor. It will even make RWS caps work on Slixshot nipples.
At least that is my experience so it is a trade off of trigger pull to ignition.
I had a Relipca Arms 1847 Colt Walker with a very heavy main spring. I found that with the rosewood grip removed from the handle, (I was constantly trying to make the action better) the hammer moved quite flawlessly and that at the end of the hammer stroke while cocking it back it would glide nicely to the third click. This led to the realization that the rosewood grip was somehow creating too much friction on the spring itself. I just wanted to point this out because the spring, if it can contact the wood at all will malfunction and with my old Walker it did just that. Also, the Walker did not have a very positive fastening to the trigger guard so I think it is possible that without extreme care installing the spring perfectly aligned that your experience may have been flawed due to friction of the spring against the rosewood grip. Perhaps you may want to try her with caps only in a vice with while you have no grip installed just to rule out friction against the wood as a factor in the lightened spring's failure.
Thanks Mike, you really teatch me a lot about the Navy -51.
I saw one guy do a video actually doubling the springs and he said it worked great
I make mine out of two pounds of lamb's tallow melted with one pound of beeswax. I haven't used a commercial lube in over 15 years...couldn't even tell you what's on the market today. 50% 50% beeswax to olive oil is also a very good lube and pretty easy to get the supplies. You might want to start there, but I get my lamb's tallow for either US Wellness meats or from Dixie Gun Works if USWM is out of stock.
I noticed the same thing recently on a couple of T&E guns. I don't know when they made the changes, but it must have been in the past couple of years.
Yes I like that u show loading them every time........good vid
That was some good shooting on the last target! Way to go!
You are a fine shot.
Hi Shugo, what Mike's video didn't show is that if he tried to fire the cylinders that didn't fire again, the cap would have probably fired using the reduced power spring. The first hit that doesn't fire the cap seats it firmly on the nipple and then the second hit will usually fire it. At least, that's how the reduced power spring worked with my 1860 Army that had misfires. My 1858 Remingtons fire every time, the first time, with the reduced power spring.
Regards,
Richard
I use a standard toilet bowl base ring and grease each cylinder using a 'popsicle' stick to spread over each cylinder. In my .44, have used a thin non lubed wad as a spacer over a Pydroex pellet; I use 5 gr of FFFG dropped in the cylinder before the pellet. No misfires. Do the same with paper cartridges.
Yes. You may need to pinch them for a secure fit.
Hi, Mike. Thanks for all of your helpful, informative videos on BP revolvers. This past year I got the fever and quickly amassed a decent collection of replica shooters. I was wandering, what distance do you find is proper for sighting in these guns? 15 yards? 25 yards? I'm ready to fine tune several guns now and just want to make sure I'm doing them justice. Thanks, and keep up the excellent work!
For the record, a second hit did set the caps off.
I find the biggest problem with most repro pistols is that the mainspring is only half the poundage of originals, this causes misfires, caps to be blown back of the nipples on firing, and a general poor performance, if you fit a proper poundage mainspring you will have none of these problems.
If you're going to shoot CAS (cowboy action) you'll need to change the trigger and main springs in these Italian repros, both BP and cartridge. The stock springs will fail with the high volume shooting you'll do in CAS. Most CAS shooters will use a lighter main (hammer) spring in their cartridge guns; however, you can just replace the stock one with an equivalent Wolff spring.
Don't be disappointed with these Italian repros due to reliability; they just need a bit of tuning. Uberti offers a tuned model in their 1873 Cattleman CMS and competition models. I'm not sure to what extent they modify these, but they are slicker actions.
I've had this hat for almost 20 years...can't remember where I picked it up. Sorry.
I shot black powder from the time I was 16-24 until I got hurt and the doc said I had to stop hunting. I never used wads on my revolvers I just lubed the cylinders last. Never had a chain fire. I did replace the factory nipples but I have no idea what brand. I’m 67 now. Don’t remember the make of my 1851 navy. It was Italian but not Pieta or Uberta and I’m to lazy to dig it out of the gun locker.
Mike has stated in several videos he prefers the ergonomics of the '51 Navy. That said, the reason he's done so many videos with it is because nearly everything he does or talks about with a '51 Navy applies to every Non-Paterson Colt.
Ok. Thank you very much. I don't mean to bombard you with questions. I just know you know what you are talking about, and it can be hard to find reliable info. If I have anymore questions, I hope it wont bother you to ask them.
Thank you again for all your help.
My trigger spring in my 1860 army Pietta I bought a week ago broke with 2 days of me fidgeting with it, never even fired it. Wire spring on order right now.
I put Wolf Springs in my Single Action Army, and thought "Why not put the old SAA spring on my '60 and have a bit lighter hammer pull?" Installed the spring, capped 5 cylinders, stepped out on the back porch and all 5 fired. "Aha", thought I, "I'm just pretty smart." Took the '60 to a CAS match and it wouldn't pop a cap on first strike to save my life. Not as smart as I thought. Put the old spring back in, and everything was fine.
Hi Bill, firmly is a relative thing. Of course the hammer mainspring is too light. Having said that, I almost 100% sure that the next hammer strike would fire the caps. Been there, done that.
Regards,
Richard
I've got a replica 1860 Colt Army 44 that I got from Dixie Gun Works back in the late 60's, it was made in Belgium, you might remember an article in the Cowboy Chronicle about the Belgium made Colt replica's a while back. The cylinder binds up after 2-3 shots, to the point where it takes one hand to cock it and another to help turn the cylinder. I wonder if the barrel wedge might be involved in that one? Happens almost every time you shoot a cylinder load.
How are you colt London models holding up to the test of time.
I ask as I just ordered one today.
Thank You
Since I'm just an "occasional" BP shooter, think I'll stick with the original mainspring. My Lli Pietta "Colt" in .44 is beautifully smooth, as-is.
Hi, I got a Pietta 1851 navy as my first revolver and about 1 month after it came the trigger spring broke, so I bought a colt SAA spring (which was the only one they had) by Hienie and it is too short to engage the trigger with the hammer notches I'm wondering what to do.
Thanks, I enjoyed this, having shot a Uberti for years, I was instructed to add more powder, then to grease the ends of the balls no wadding. It hits as hard. Mine seems to smoke a lot less. Perhaps due to using more powder. Never had any missfires. When finished shooting, dissemble and clean then I use an old dental oil bath sterilizer to soak in hot oil. Clean dry and reassemble.
I enjoy Black powder.
GOOD SHOOTING.
Great day today on the range with the piette 1851 brass frame navy but not so good with the piette 1860
What is your favorite bp revolver and why. And how many do you own. Love your vids.
I guess I own 20 or 30...never counted them. The 1860 Army is my favorite. Perfect combination of balance and power...best looking too.
I use Remington #10s. CCI #10s are too tight
ya but cci #11 are to big what a nightmare
Do you like the squared back trigger guard at all or just the fully rounded one on the 1851 Navy? Also, do you prefer the standard brass backstrap and trigger guard to the nickel plated ones or would you always go with the steel ones instead?
What type of grease do you use when you don't use the felt wads? And if you make it, what type would you recommend to buy? I've seen bore butter, but it looks to be more messy. What ever you use looks alot easier to manage. I have asked you a few questions already I know. Lol But I'm really trying to learn about the black powder stuff. Thank you for the help you have given me already.
That would be very messy, and inefficient. Most of the lube will be cut off by the chamber mouths and the lube under the ball will just contaminate the powder it touches. Minies and conical bullets can be lubed as you suggest because they have grease grooves
the spring needs to be long enough to extend about a quarter of an inch beyond the back of the frame with the plunger all the way into the hole. Remove the leaf spring from the hand.Then you reassemble the action parts of the gun. Then put the plunger and spring into its hole and re-attach the grip assembly. The back strap will push the spring all the way into the hole, compressing it. That coil spring and plunger will function as the new hand spring.
Hi Mike. I suspect the tight wedge is to allow for wear in as the gun gets shot more. Sometime you have the time, could you test fire the London navy for accuracy, from a rest. Most cap and ball revolvers seem to shoot high, but I tested an Armi San Marco Navy in Italy and was amazed by its rifle like accuracy. We were consistently hitting eggs @ 20 meters using conicals and round balls.
Need some help. I'm ordering an Uberti 1858 New army .44 revolver and was wondering which brand and number percussion caps to use? I've heard that Remington #10 work well with the Piette 1858, but I also know there are subtle differences between Uberti and Pietta. Long question short, will the Remington #10 percussion caps work well on the Uberti and not have issues, such as being too small or large?
I like these BP guns. shame that there is no place too shoot them in my area
Now this could be just my hearing , but it sounds like the bang wasn't as loud with the new spring the one's that did go off . Or was that just me . Anyway great video mate could of been a top video if you had video the changing of the spring . Great stuff mate
I would only need to make a little bit at a time. And if Dixie Gunworks has the supplies that would be pretty easy to get to. I only live about 45 minutes away. I understand that lambs tallow can be seasonal. Is there a good substitute for it, that would make the lube the same constistancy as what you make? The bees wax/ olive oil 50-50 mixture? And how long does it take the lube mixture to harden?
You can do it on a Remington, but the integral grip frame makes it more difficult. You need to drill all the way through the gun. Then tap the back of the hole and, after the plunger and spring is installed you screw in a plug screw to tension it.
Mike, Was there a specific reason that colt made the London navies with a steel grip backstrap in stead of the brass one?
Mike please test how long a loaded bp revolver can set and still fire......use cci caps
Mike,
Just broke the trigger spring on my 1992 Cabelas Pietta 51 navy. I was going to order a Heinie spring from Brownells but 2 of the 3 reviews said they were too short for the Pietta Navy. Two comments on this video also state the same thing. Am I best off just ordering a flat spring of eBay or should I still order a Heinie?
I ordered some from vtigunparts.com along with some cylinder hands. They are much better than the original
And also could I just rub a thick layed of bore butter on the roundball BEFORE loading it into the cylinder? Without using a wad or lube/grease over the END of the cylinder? I have seen some do this when shooting mini balls through rifles.
Mike I noticed my 1973 Pietta and my new Pietta parts don't match. Springs, hammer, cylinder etc. any idea when they changed it up?
Wads and lube over the chamber mouth do the same thing...help keep the fouling soft. Wads are faster and less messy, and because I make my own, they are also cheap. But if I don't have any to hand I use lube.
Enjoyed the vid. I usually do, here. I also enjoy Capandball. Our Hungarian friend includes corn meal in the chambers so that the seated bullet is closer to the forcing cone. Does that matter? Does the corn meal affect the burning characteristics of the powder? Is it messy? Have you tried it?
Thanks, and keep them coming.
+Rick Wiggins Yes, I prefer to use combat powder charges vs lighter charges with cornmeal fillers.
This pretty much only happens on Colt type replicas. It is when fired caps stick to the face of the hammer and pull off the nipple. They then fall into the action, jamming the gun up.
OUCH! I have always heard that in the event of a misfire the gun should be kept pointed downrange and not re-cocked as a delayed fire may occur. SAFETY FIRST!
a 5 second delay is required in comp rules before recocking etc. his practices are far from safe and several of them would result in a competition disqualification for safety violation.
lol "It's very high quality and I expect it to last until my grandchildren break the gun"
Pietta is worse, but the Uberti brass framed geometry isn't 100% correct either. If you tried to interchange the London Model grips onto an 1851 brass grip frame you would immediately see what I'm talking about.
Folks may take offense Mike because you say "load five for safety" which implies a full chamber is not safe. The built in safeties are perfectly safe. Since you shoot competitions where the rules limit you to 5 rounds it make sense that YOU carry that over for consistency sake.
BTW. The Easiest fix for you is to go to Brownells and buy a Smith & Wesson hand slot file and a set of stones made to smooth out hand slots and clean up the hand slot on your Remington. That is probably why you are breaking springs...which is not normal at all. I've shot Remingtons for decades without breaking a spring.
Hi Mike would you please let me know what is the wire O.D. or gage # of the wolf wire Bolt and trigger spring ? I have a London 1851 and as most flat spring is broken . Thanks Frank
Frank, this is a nine year old video. I don't even know if I have that spring still installed.Or which gun it is in. I'll try to remember to look for it, but it will be awhile. I have a lot on my plate at the moment.
I believe you only load five every time even when you're at the range because it's good to establish muscle memory so that you'll do it every time even in a pinch when you need to do it quickly and I think it would be nice to know you're good to go you know what I'm saying
I tried the Heine music wire trigger spring in my Pietta and it was too short.
It is just the way Ubertis are.
Try the wolf spring with a taylor conversion cyl