The inscrutable King Crimson exposed by their documentary-maker Toby Amies
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2023
- “Being on tour with King Crimson,” in the words of their film director, “is like being with the school rugby team and, at the last minute, the games teacher falls ill so they send them out with the maths master. But the team starts winning ...”
Is there another band remotely like them? Their leader believes in discipline and cold showers in the morning. He practices four hours a day. Life in the group was “wretched” from 1969 to 2013. Adrian Belew says it made his hair fall out. The running gag among its 22 one-time members is “you’re irreplaceable, just like the last bloke”. With great bravery and patience, Toby Amies has made a documentary about them, ‘In The Court Of The Crimson King: King Crimson at 50’, and talks to us here about what he discovered. There’s much to be enjoyed, not least…
… the fact that Robert Fripp commissioned the film and for months refused to take part in it.
… the encounter with Sister Dana, the prog rock nun from Norway.
… the film’s reflections upon “the metronome of mortality”.
.. the thoughts and perspectives of current and former band members, particularly Bill Bruford, Bill Reiflin, Jakko Jakszyk and Ian McDonald who “broke Robert’s heart” in 1969 and is still touchingly apologetic.
… the religious ecstasy pursued by their audience.
… how King Crimson’s music feels like a deep-body tissue massage.
… and the extraordinary two-minute pause that a motionless Fripp leaves before answering one of the film’s questions.
It’s very entertaining, not least because it was made by someone who wasn’t a fan but simply curious and had questions he wanted answered. This original and idiosyncratic film suits them perfectly.
Screenings here …
www.itcotck.com/screenings
@TobyAmies
linktr.ee/tobyamies
@itcotckdoc
@ITCOTCKfilm
linktr.ee/itcotck
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Bill Rieflin from The Blackouts, Ministry, and Swans to R.E.M. to King Crimson. What a career! Rest In Power!
For me, Bill Rieflin's participation in the film elevated the film from a standard music doc to something very special. Bill transcended ego to reach a heightened reality and the doc benefited greatly from his presence. His death was a huge blow to the music industry. He worked with some of the most egotistically strong intense personalities on the planet (Michael Gira of Swans for one) and carved out a niche of being an approachable decent human being. About the opposite, their is a scene in which Fripp reacts in anger on a level that is absolutely terrifying.
To truly and genuinely understand Fripp you need to do three things. One, you must read the book by Sid Smith, In The Court of King Crimson. Two, you need have some understanding of spiritual breaks, or 'awakening' or whatever you will call it. Fripp had a major spiritual break in 1972 and as a result, broke with the world. This type of experience fundamentally alters you, and it can cause you to seem eccentric. Something of this sort happened for me, and one thing that came from it is an appreciation and love for silence. Fripp taking those two minutes of not even moving is typical. Most people can *not* deal with silence, it makes them uncomfortable. An outsider to this will feel distinctly uncomfortable around those who prefer or are comfortable with silence. Third thing, watch or read every interview you can with Fripp with this understanding gleaned from the first two points. I'm not saying I'd care to spend time with Fripp, I don't know. But I understand many of the things he does from his side. He is grossly misunderstood, and probably unfairly maligned. He has demonstrated a very caring and big hearted side of himself, along with what appears to others as cold and uncaring. Do not understand him too quickly.
Most people are based on materialism so they can’t understand Fripp.
The two minute pause is a moment of great dignity.
And of great depth: Fripp tears up.
Hope they release the rest of the doco,there's way more footage than was released.
Wish Tony had more screen time, considering his history in the band, but I understand the choices made. He deserves a doc of his own. should get a kickstare going for it.
Doing social work for nearly two decades allowed me to be able to articulate the difference between working for enjoyment versus working for deep satisfaction - so many people through the years would ask me if I enjoyed my work to which I would always reply that it's in no way enjoyable, however it's deeply satisfying - one of the greatest scams in life is to believe that deep satisfaction can only be achieved from enjoyment. However if enjoyment and deep satisfaction can both be present that's a bonus...
I saw this incarnation of KC in Madrid in 2016 and it was the best concert in my life. I think that, while Fripp is always living the moment, he was also very aware that this was the final stage of the band, and he wanted it to end in a proper, KCish, way. So he came back to the classics in their repertoire and found the perfect combination of former and new members for the band. It's amazing
I live ten miles from Bredonborough / Pershore. I once served Robert's brother when I worked in Stratford. I was very impressed to see the name Fripp on the cheque he paid with and he confirmed that he was his brother. This was back in 1990.
I bumped into Robert and Toyah in asda in Pershore just before Christmas, he seemed like a nice guy. saw them both on their tour at Chelteham town hall in october. i too live about ten miles from Pershore.
Stellar film! Really had a great time watching it.
The mega pause moment was because Fripp was crying. Did no one notice the tears??
Yes !!! I still can't quite believe that the director of the film didn't notice this either. It's fair to assume that the memory of his brief meeting with J G Bennett is clearly a significant, treasured and emotional memory for Robert Fripp, and that it still means a lot to him.
@@markfairhurst7867 I was surprised no one mentioned it; unless they were worried it might be a spoiler? But yes it was clearly an immensely impact full memory for Fripp. A great moment.
@@dezfoley Yes, a great and significant moment, because I think it shows a completely different aspect of the man, to counter the general picture that builds up in the rest of the film. I was thinking it might be possible to miss the tears if one was viewing on a small screen. I saw it in a cinema.
Totally agree, Fripp obviously feels great emotion that he keeps tightly in check. The 'megapause' was his remembering the moment and struggling to keep his emotions in check. Find the video of Robert talking about his friend John Wetton and the last years of his life, and you will see the same emotion scarcely controlled
that's what i thought, it brought me to tears
Saw last incarnation about 4 times - an amazing and unforgettable experience - feel lucky
Saw the original incarnation twice in '69 - feel lucky too 🙂
@@henrydarker4314
Hello from the u.k.
I think you was the luckiest!
Without a doubt, they lost me after RED, and believe me I’ve tried!
Take care.
Absolutely top stuff - thanks to all three of you!
As an only just twenty year old I was put forward, by the guitar player of a prog rock band I was rehearsing with who had links with King Crimson, for an audition for the bass player’s role ahead of them touring the Lizard album. I knew I was not even in the ball park for the job but with the confidence of youth I still went through with the audition. I was in a daze entering the basement rehearsal room, feeling like a first year going into the prefect’s common room. The only thing I can remember about the, predictably short, audition was being asked by Fripp if I would warm up by joining the band in “extemporising on the ostinato bass pattern from the piece 21st Century Schizoid Man". This was followed by one of the band telling me, “he mean’s jamming on a riff”…
Fabulous stuff!!
I have been a KC fan since 1973. After an initial learning curve of Robert Fripp's existence, I became a better listener of music in genrral.
Very much looking forward to this. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Who are they,,🤔
@@johnnowlan9963 Sort of like Showaddywaddy but with better dancing, clothes and hair.
@@johnnowlan9963 Learn to use the internet, and you will know within five minutes, detective.
Fascinating interview. Thanks guys. I had no idea Hepworth and Ellen were still a double act! It would be great to finally see this film but where is it available to watch, buy, rent etc? I am in the USA. (Edit: is it being shown sparsely because Mr. F isn't keen on it?)
I feel like Toby does a better job here explaining Robert's point of view, than Robert did.
I thought the silence was a combination of A: he's trying not to cry (and fails) and B: he figured that was ok because they'd edit the pause out.
Super good video folks!
thats how i saw it. he was right on the edge of crying, and if you've ever been in that state, the act of speaking can set it off@@mcolville
Can't wait to see this film, if it's anything like as good as this podcast.
The nun bit is the best part of the film.
The interviews with Riflin and Fripp are both revealing in different ways.
A unique band.
Top bloke, I learned a lot from this.
Perhaps a 50 year plus parallel, Hawkwind.
They have just done a new album. Hawkwind is another band that reinvents itself (within certain parameters)
Having watched a couple of lengthy interviews with Toby I'm more curious to see the film than I expected to be. He looks and sounds as if he could easily be one of the 3 drummers.
As to Mr Fripp and his ambidextrous-achievement-as-llifelong-calling, with all its attendant guru mind games, the bumptious oaf is lucky he hasn't had his precious bloody banjo wrapped around his head.
Really want to see this film now... i have, at best, a passing interest in King Crimson, own no records, never will probably... watched few You Tube clips... I once saw Bill Bruford in a beach cafe in Goring, nr Worthing. That's the closesr to KC I've ever been.. great interview - Toby's work is always great!!
Thank you Tim. XXX
Bruford always come across as a nice guy
Adrian Belew commented publicly about regretting his involvement, two days worth of contribution reduced to four nasty soundbites. Watching Toby refer to him as "bitchy" is a bit saddening, but I suppose I'll see the film regardless.
Recollections may vary. To my knowledge Adrian has not seen the film, but he has nevertheless commented publicly on the content of it, negatively. Personally I thought he gave a good account of himself, but like Tony, he probably deserves his own documentary. But ITCOTCK is a documentary about King Crimson, not any one person. It's also about the sacrifices necessary to make great art. Sometimes those sacrifices come in the form of psychological trauma, sometimes they come in the form of cuts in the search for relevant material. The first rule of show business is "always leave them wanting more" . I hope you enjoyed the film nevertheless Justin. Cheers, Toby
Well I have watched various clips and promo segments.Robert a quite brilliant musician reminds one of a kind of ''Hannibal Lecter'' of Prog.Not really changed in persona since the early days of the local Beat Group scene in 1960's Dorset and on throughout the King Crimson experience to infinity and beyond...just a little older still demeaning and ornery.Know what they say about leopards... 😈
om Excellent!
I have a couple of banjo chords down..but I'm driven to always do my best work..how do you get to audition for the band..thanks in advance.
So Robert got some stick in this interview but to me the one thing that stood out about the man in question is his treatment of Bill R. If he is big of and jerk as people say why did he stand by what is just another player in the band and not send him home we he could no longer do his part in the line up? That say more about him as a human than all the old man bitching then anything else. The dignity and respect he afforded Bill at the end of his life speaks volumes of the man more than a million words and nobody mentions that.
Does anyone else think Robert Fripp is a bit like Ekhart Tolle?
oh my God Mark, your bookshelf is giving me anxiety. Can you at least put the books upright?
My same thoughts 😂😂😂
Why bother pay to stream it online, when you can buy the blu-ray for about the same amount?
I saw them (Rieflin wasn't there), w/ Jeremy Stacy, and some anonymous keyboardist,
the day before Thanksgiving 2017.
Does this documentary gave a name? Because I don't think anybody mentioned it in this entire interview.
In The Court of King Crimson
Kc's were never Rock Stars. Maybe Adrian and John and Greg were pushed into there somehow by management.
Ozzerwise it was always a bit of a compilation of unknown studio guys, who then set the live stage on fire.
I think most Crimson fans will find the film disappointing as it is really a look at the contemporary band on tour rather than a history of the band, now it's completely valid to make such a film but... we get all these fascinating tidbits about Crimson's early days and the 70's and the briefest of interviews with Adrian Belew... I think a better compromise would have been to give us the contemporary film plus unedited interviews on the DVD with characters such as Belew and anyone else who wanted to wax about the history and their experience... as it is one comes away feeling frustrated with a very limited framed view of reality... that perhaps suits Fripp and Fripp probably preferred to have something that looked vaguely amateurish as though a neophyte is attempting to understand something presented as esoteric...
James, broadly speaking and with respect, I think you’re wrong. It appears you have made several assumptions that have led you to this conclusion.
Regarding Robert’s involvement in the film - he was wary at first though eventually acquiesced to interviews, but he had no creative involvement or veto whatsoever in the editing process and his and David Singleton‘s attitude to it was that if I thought it was the right film to have made then it was the right film to have made.
As the main point of contact for the film (and someone who pays attention to comments on CZcams channels) I think am in a reasonably a good position to map what most Crimson fans think of the film so far and they seem to have loved it; understanding that rather than retelling the history that has already been really well documented, the idea was to explore how the band operates both today and yesterday. That’s particularly with reference to some of Robert’s more philosophical approaches to the creative process and their impact on band members now AND then.
I’m sure you’re well aware that there is not much historical footage of the band that exists and most of that has already been seen, so I worked with the only active version of the band I had access to, but comparing and contrasting life in it now to how life in it was. As I’m sure you’re well aware there have been many distinct iterations of King Crimson, and I don’t think it would’ve been possible in 90 Minutes to explore all of them and I’m aware that for many fans some iterations (the discipline band in particular) resonate more strongly than others.
I think most documentary makers would agree with that would be hard at best and unethical at worst to give audiences access to unedited raw footage. One member was very particular in terms of how the material we shot with him was to be used and I’ll leave it up to you to guess which one. but obviously that limited the amount of screen time he had. And if you’ve seen the film you will know how sensitive the material with Ian MacDonald was and I think it’s important that it is contextualised with care and respect. I’m sure DGM will release more footage eventually, but the whole point of making a film is that you edit it with regard to presenting a particular perspective (s) in a way that is hopefully both informative, moving and entertaining. Inevitably if you’re seeking to make something of a reasonable length, many things have to be left out.
King Crimson is one of the most uncompromising bands and creative projects I have ever come across, so it does not seem in the least bit appropriate to make compromises in making work that describes them.
Regarding your comment about the film being amateurish, yes, there are moments where the focus and lighting is wanting, that’s because in order to gain candour and intimacy most of the time it was just me filming with a camera that excels in usability and convenience but sometimes suffered in low light environments. Perhaps there is a compromise here, sometimes the production values are not as high as I would like, but those moments only happen when IMO there is enough going on in front of the camera that those audience members who are caught in the moment remain there rather than being concerned about how it was filmed.
You’re right about me being a neophyte, but I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. And KC are esoteric AF! And all the better for it!
If you’d like to discuss the film at greater length please don’t hesitate to contact me via my website tobyamies.com
Cheers,
Toby
@@TobyAmies thanks for the thoughtful response, obviously a lot of work went into the project and you certainly caught many interesting moments but I think overall it is a frustrating experience in the sense that this is likely to be the only time such a film will be made about the band.
I know from a creative point of view it would seem tedious to say this happened in 1971 and this happened in 1972 etc but we get no interview with David Cross and nothing from the archive that might represent John Wetton and the briefest of clips with Adrian Belew etc
I do wonder why the film wasn't closer to 2 hours?
When I mentioned unedited interviews what I was thinking was when a documentary in the 2000's came out about Syd Barrett we were given the full interviews with the band as a bonus on the DVD and I think some have appeared on youtube aswell. It's just something that I think would satisfy a lot of fans in the modern era where there's a constraint about what can be presented as a feature film, you could say it's as much about oral history as entertainment at this point.
I am glad the film was made.
Robert Fripp similar personality as bandleader like Frank Zappa?
Parallels? What about Frank Zappa or the Dead. Long lasting ensembles of rotating members, led by a visionary somewhat cool to the fans, followed by a hyper-devoted cult of happy listeners?
"He loves pissing people off!"
"He's quite cold toward the audience."
These interviewers' comments offer proof positive that if you are a performer, and you don't behave like a trained seal, giving people the responses they've already decided beforehand that you should, you'll be treated with dismay or even hostility. Is it any wonder that Fripp's quit the music industry, more than once?
There's more than just trained seal and a-hole characters he could be
I’ve successfully avoided all exposure to King Crimson after seeing them at what might’ve been one of their first gigs, in 1969 at the ICA, when I was 13 or 14. Thankfully, within days or weeks of that, I was stood in front of Taste at the Marquee and never looked back!
Taste lasted all of 5 minutes. But, I suppose 5 minutes seems like a long time when you're 13 or 14.
@@apollomemories7399 Better 5 minutes of music than a life time of pseudo intellectual wankery I would say.
Dayum!
That's cool as Hell.
Never heard of them 🤔
If you haven't heard of them, then you haven't heard of prog-rock. You should explore it; it's great.
Kanye West sampled their first album without permission. Big mistake! KC are without exception the best live band I have ever seen.
You don't know rock music very well, then, which is of course fine. Taste in the arts is obviously subjective.
Seriously folks, to understand Robert Fripp and this documentary one must google JG Bennett, and What Is The Work. BTW the editors did great Work!
It didn't paint Fripp in a good light to be honest. He came across as quite Sociopathic in his dealings with anyone who's name isn't Toyah.
He is odd, but the one who seemed to be a bit of a bastard was Jakko.
Both are bastards. Great music but it's true. Read a Jakko interview for a couple of minutes and you can figure that out!
@@Rondoggy67 they does he dress the same all the time looks a bit boring to me🤔
@@johnnowlan9963 First of all you'd never heard of them, which is fairly unbelievable. Then you proceed to comment on how someone prefers to dress themselves. Perhaps you were expecting/hoping to see something akin to X-Factor, with sequins, pastel coloured clothes and sparkly make-up? Maybe check out his guitar playing before using the term "boring", eh?
@@apollomemories7399 he dresses like banker and only know him because of his lockdown videos with toyah that's it😁🤘