Danger Zone: Avoiding Catastrophic Brake Failures in Classic Cars
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2023
- JAGUAR E TYPE S1 cars, and other manufacturers were using the DUNLOP brake cylinders. A HUGE problem with them was the corrosion. What caused the risk of total failure. How to avoid it is explained in this video.
www.etypes1.com
Safe your life and cars by watching this video.
I have always been using ATE brake assembly paste:
www.ate-info.de/en/details/pr...
Damon Ross recommends another medium to protect against corrosion and seizing. Somthing like.
www.toplicht.de/en/electrics-... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
H Maikel . I have had my i.r.s rebuilt and obviously had the pistons closely looked at . To be fair they were in excellent condition . I 've yet to attend to the front brakes . But you can never be to careful when it comes to stopping ! Thanks Maikel . Oh ! I saw you and your friend outside the car showroom in Essen with the director (?) .....on facebook l think . Cheers ! Is that your coupe ? Love Gunmetal with Red interior , looks so elegant .
Good evening John,
as you said, not all brake cylinders are bad, but how can you tell before you look at them. Sure you can take a chance, but I had a friend coming round this week, with exactly the same issue on his rear brakes. Total brake loss on the highway !!!. You had them inspected, hopefully all of the others do that as well.
Regarding the picture, I am not quite sure, which you are referring to. The one with the white OBL ?
The Gunmetal is part of our collection and is literally "brand new" show room condition with 55 km after a 100% nut and bolt rebuilt. Slightly modified, might feature it in an upcoming clip.
@@JaguarEType Yes. The OBL Maikel .
@@johndavey72 John, that foto with the white OBL was taken in front of cathedral-classics.com. It is a british car dealer about 45 km from our home. We stopped there on our way back home from our roadtrip. The other couple on that pics is from UK and have done this epic roadtrip with us. The impressing thing is that they did it in one of the very first E Types ever made. Number 850011, built in April 1961 and was used as the Jaguar press car for many pictures. Apart from using such a valuable car, it worked and had no issues at all. They are using it frequently for tours and I think that is a leading example for all of us.
There are replacement brake cylinders that have the o ring seal in the body and not on the piston which helps keep water out.
Even for the S1 E Type? I know that Jaguar changed for the S2 which has the seal in the cylinder and the piston is stainless.
Hello Maikel
I am restoring a 1963 Etype coupé can you give me the address to rechamber my Dunlop brakes in stainless steel?
thanks in advance
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
can you send me an Email, kind regards.
Hi Maikel.
Much to discuss.
There is also the matter of brake fluid being hygroscopic.
Stainless steel, or Edelstahl, is stain less, not stain free. It will and can rust/suffer from galvanic corrosion.
Flip me an email and I can give you a little more info.
Best regards,
Damon
Hi Damon,
thank you very much for your reaction. That is what I wanted. I know several people who had the same problem. Everyone is worried and wondering what to do. Sure, you can change the entire brake system, but often, at least here in Germany those are not technically approved or certified. So, what can we do to keep the cars on the road without worrying too much about the brakes. I think Mercedes and Volvo used the same DUNLOP brakes. Please write all you now in these comments that we all can make up our own opinion and decision. I find these sleeves an appropriate way to overcome the risk of stuck brake pistons. Need to mention that this only goes for the S1 cars. It was changed for S2 cars.
Main intention is to make people become aware of it !!
@@JaguarEType Hi Maikel,
only because you feely share your intellectual capital with us all, I shall , in return, share some of my hard won intellectual capital and experience with you.
It is not easy for me to get all of my experience across in a format that involves typing and not talking.
Here goes.
Firstly, it must be remembered that brake fluid is hygroscopic, ie; it absorbs moisture from the air.
It absorbs moisture through the rubber brake hoses and the necessary vent holes in any reservoirs. This moisture accumulates and then settles to the lowest points in the system, ie: the brake calipers/wheel cylinders.
Moisture permeates any rubber dust seals through microscopic holes in the rubber, similarly flexible hoses, and most dust seals are just that, dust seals rather than proper air tight seals.
Hence the need to flush your brake fluid every two years. Brake fluid is horrible stuff but a necessary evil. There is no viable substitute. I have tried silicone brake fluids but they are not compatible with the ethylene propylene rubber used in the seals and cause them to swell too much and seize things up .
Best practice is to use good brake fluid and change it every two years.
Stainless steel sleeves are best practice to refurbish brake cylinders, but make no mistake, they can and will rust. They are not stain free.
The causes of the rust are mostly due to moisture permeating the outer rubber dust seals, but also from the brake fluid that absorbs the moisture. Once it is in the system the only way to get it out is to flush it out.
The term "rust" is a loose one, a more correct term is galvanic corrosion, whereby you have two dissimilar metals and an electrolyte. Introducing stainless steel where there was previously only cast iron introduces a dissimilar metal. Water/moisture is the electrolyte.
When we have two dissimilar metals and an electrolyte we effectively have a battery where atoms from one metal pass to the other, which is the cause/effect of all the pitting.
The rust can directly rust the cylinder bore/sleeve , but it can also start rusting the piston.
When you overhaul, get your pistons re-plated , do not just wire wheel them of old rust and then re-install them. Electroplating staves off rusting. They were plated when new and any protection you get will prolong the operating life of the system. Most of the piston is exposed to the atmospheric side of any brake fluid seals and this is where most of the damage seems to be done.
I have tried many ways to lubricate/protect the piston on the atmospheric side of the seals, from rubber grease to synthetic lubricants. None seem to work very well or for prolonged periods of time.
However, I have been testing a compound that I know prevents corrosion in marine environments like no other.
I have tested this compound in brake fluid for extended periods and have seen no deterioration whatsoever and no any side effects upon the ethylene propylene rubbers used in brake seals.
I now coat the pistons, especially the sides behind the dust seals with a product known as Tefgel.
It is unrivalled in the prevention of galvanic corrosion.
These problems are further exacerbated by the fact that these cars are not driven as frequently as they were when new and cars wear out more quickly by not being driven than being driven, especially braking systems. Stasis kills cars.
I have many clients that for whatever reasons do not drive their cars often and I have been combatting these issues for decades.
The Dunlop wheel cylinders were particularly prone to problems because the piston seal was on the piston and not in the caliper body. All modern calipers have this situation reversed and, as a result, suffer less from rust/pitting. They are not immune from it however.
It is quite normal for the brake pads in Dunlop calipers to wear down and the bores of the wheel cylinders rust in the area inside/inboard of the seal, then, when new brake pads are necessarily fitted the piston and seal need to be pushed back over the ridges/lumps of rust and the seal is now expected to work over an area that is rusted and not smooth.
Failure/leakage ensues. Expensive overhaul of the wheel cylinders is the only fix, until the pads need changing again....
We all stand on the shoulders of giants and Dunlop's system was the first, it was cutting edge in its day.
I recommend Tefgel to be smeared on the cylinder and pistons of these cars and it will stop galvanic corrosion in those parts.
From my observations it is not affected by the nasty glycols that are inherent in brake fluids.
There is no better low temperature anti seize on the market for that matter for nuts/bolts and electrical connections in my opinion.
Jaguar, Aston Martin, Jensen, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Austin Healey, Iso Grifo, Lancia, Daimler, Facel Vega, all used these same type Dunlop brakes.
Best regards
Damon
@@nkelly.9 Hi Damon,
thank you very much once again for your expertise. I think it is always better that people do get a second or third opinion and your input is most valuable and explains it in details for those who want to know more. Also I have learned from your explanation and will use this Tefgel you recommend as I have been using ATE brake assembly paste.
www.ate-info.de/en/details/produkte/ate-bremszylinder-paste-180-ml_spanisch
I can not tell how much different it is to the Tef Gel www.toplicht.de/en/electrics-engine/accessories-for-engines/grease-lubricants-grease-pumps/3034/corrosion-eliminator-paste-tef-gel.
Could you let us know if and what the difference it. I am not linked to any of those nor do I think are you.
Many thanks Damon, and all the others for yachting and adding your input.👍