Basic Shapeoko 3 Tuning: Squaring, Spindle Tramming, & More
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2017
- A topical exploration of techniques to improve Shapeoko cut quality and precision. Covered topics include Squaring the base, aligning the rails, tramming the spindle, and calibrating the stepper motors.
My cheap dial indicator: amzn.to/2oZR16u
(Consider getting base w/ ball joints too: amzn.to/2pnUf01)
Threaded inserts I put into the bottom of my supplementary wasteboard: amzn.to/2oZPwoT (Note: Use w/ 5/16" pilot hole, NOT 9mm)
Dust boot that’s saved me from inhaling a ton of MDF dust: www.suckitdustboot.com/
Support my content here: / winstonmoy - Jak na to + styl
Winston,
Thanks for putting together this video. It was extremely helpful in getting my new Shapeoko 3 up and running properly.
I was having squaring issues during assembly and this video covered all of the issues I was having.
I faced a MDF wasteboard before I did the tuning and it had ridges. After tuning, I resurfaced and it was smooth.
Circles and squares cut great!
Thanks,
Sam
Great video, I wish I did this when I first put my machine together. Like you mentioned, I find the machine still works well enough when out of square and tram. These steps to dial the machine in are so easy though, there is really no excuse not to do it.
Love your video's. Thanks for taking the time to help the Shapeoko community!!!
this was actually a very well build video. not alot of people realize to achieve good results it takes proper set up and honestly you covered the steps very well.
This should be essential viewing for anyone with a shapeoko! Thanks for posting :)
Great tutorial! I spent 45 minutes carefully making measurements using a dial indicator and it showed that ... there were several missing rubber feet at the bottom of my S3 that were distorting the base!
You nailed it! Very impressive video. You covered 99+% of everything that needs to be done. Thanks Winston for making this NEEDED video. See you at MF!
Thanks @Winston - Great video.
Very interested in the supplementary Waste Board build. Please do share.
Would watch any content you provide on this channel. Keep it up.
I would love to see a more detailed video of the supplementary waste board. Now that the frozen North is thawing, I can get back to my Shapeoko in the basement and not freeze while I'm down there. Taking tons of notes for what to do. Thank you.
Hi Winston. Thanks for very important thing to calibrate on the CNC machine Nice video.
Man I really appreciate this video. I am a total newb and had higher expectations in just being able to build it and use it so I have definitely had to take a step back so many times. Soo I built a table for the machine and now that its on it I am going to try these steps. Thanks for this cus I am still quite lost but at least now I have some direction.
Great video. I need to do a better job dialing in my S3 XXL so the timing was perfect. I especially appreciate calibrating the x and y stepper movements as mine are subtly out of sync.
the one dislike is Edward.
It's videos like this that bring your engineering thought process seriously help out the 'i just want to try it' hobbyists. Thank you for all your videos!
Thank you Winston for your detailed explanation!
Great Video, gave me a lot of tips I hadnt thought of!
my first machining operation for me was to make holes in the wasteboard for mounting an additional wastboard on top. then plane it down. mine was an 1/8th inch low in the center of the board!
Winston, thank you for another great video!
I just spent a little bit of time tramming my spindle front to back. I created a small facing operation in Fusion 360 that was about 11" wide and only three passes along the y-axis with a 0.2mm depth of cut. I'm using a 1" surfacing bit that will amplify the out of tram condition compared to a 1/4" bit. I mounted a scrap board on the part of the spoil board that seemed to be the most level to the x and y axis. For this operation it really doesn't matter that much. I ran the facing operation once and it was obvious that the spindle was leaning forward so I needed to tilt it back.
Now for how to adjust for that lean...
1. Turn off the CNC and remove the spindle from the holder.
2. Remove the springs from the z-axis then lower the plate as far as it will go. The bottom wheels wheels will actually drop off the rails at the bottom.
3. Tilt the bottom of the plat forward slightly then the plate will drop another few mm. The mounting screws for the plate are now accessible from the back of the machine.
4. Loosen the mounting screws. You do not need to remove them.
5. Fold some tin foil into a long thin strip about 4 or 5 mm wide. It doesn't take very many layers to make a noticeable difference.
6. Slide the foil strip between the spindle mount and the plate. In my case I put it just below the mounting screws since I want the mount to lean back. If you need to lean it forward put the strip above the mounting screws.
7. Tighten the mounting screws.
8. Slide the plate back up making sure the lower wheels are engaged with the rails correctly.
9. Re-install the springs and spindle.
10. Run your facing operation again to check your results.
Repeat as necessary removing or adding layers of foil until you get it as close as you feel you need. You'll need to re-zero the z-axis each time. That's partly due to the fact that you removed and re-installed the spindle but also the top of your stock is lower each time you run your facing test.
I completely over estimated the number of layers I would need on the first try. I think I started with something like 9 or 10 layers and ended up with the spindle leaning the other way. I would start with just 4 layers and adjust from there but each machine will likely be different.
If you get to the point where one layer of foil either way is too much, try moving the foil strip closer or further away from the mounting screws. I haven't tried that but I can see how that could make a tiny difference in the angles. We're talking about small fractions of a degree.
Only time will tell if this will be a permanent fix. I'm not sure if vibrations may cause the foil to shift or compress more. I'll probably run these facing tests once in a while to see if it's holding.
Clean and great information. I hope one day to buy my own.
facing , squaring and re facing is actually perfect. you will have a perfect tram
Great video with very good advice! Thank you!
Awesome, Winston! About to order a dial indicator and get to work! This is so incredibly helpful. I'll be heading to MF Bay Area this year and I'll try to track down you and Richard!
I'll see you there! Not sure what time(s) exactly I'll be hanging around the @Carbide3D booth, but shoot me a message on social media or something if you can't find me.
very nicely done. congratulations.
wow this is a great video especially since i am planning to get a shapeoko
Nice work! Thanks for doing this.
very educate video...thank you.
every time I watched your videos with you Shapeoko I want to buy it, but I dont know yet if I should buy Shapeoko or one of the cnc Chinese 3040. Does somebody here use 3040 CNC mill Chinese?
Great video. I especially like the poor man's spindle square. Thanks!
Thank you for this!
Such a great video!
My SO3 XL also has that dip in the center of the waste-board along the X axis. I measured the dip with a straight edge and a feeler gauge - .45mm right in the center, and consistent along the Y. My solution was to shim the center rail below the washboard using some sheet metal shims cut from some flashing. It's now near perfect and I didn't have to surface the waste-board.
Thanks for this awesome video. I just got mine working yesterday and while running hello world noticed one side of my bed is lower than the other causing it to draw only half the logo. Can you please make more in depth video on calibrating this machine? Can't wait to start milling aluminum, but I want accuracy.
Great video... i basically just attached my dial indicator on the end of ur poor mans version. Worked great for me
Great information.Thanks for sharing
This was great!! Greatly appreciated!
Amazing tips! Flattening the waste board is a no brainer. But checking if the flute is in a 90degree angle to the wasteboard is very overlooked. I will check mine as its giving very rough lines in my parts when doing surface milling
Great video! But...... I'm havin' a heck of a time trying to tram my spindle in the Y axis. I've followed your suggestions in your video to no avail. I'm out about 15/1000's and can't get it any better. I've had a suggestion to drill out the holes on the end plates to give a little more movement. Would you agree with that? I get a little nervous when I think about that.
hi Dear
thank you for this video, just one thing how can i get a shapeoko cnc machine
i wonder if adding adjustable feet between the left and right in the center would help with the frame
This is a very nice video, but I wish you'd included a clip of the bolts you loosened on the gandry to rotate it. I'm having the same issue, but I don't want to loosen anything that shouldn't be loosened.
Thanks Winston.
A good dust collection system would reduce the chances of chips getting on the sliding rails and manifesting errors. Lubing the sliding rails reduces jitters and making sure that the spindle spins true would help or no wobble.
Top notch video! Thanks
Another thing... fit your router into the mount, tram it in.... THEN LEAVE IT IN THE MOUNT.
Removing and replacing the router means you need to re-tram it in again. I used to use my 611 as a trim router as well as a CNC spindle and then I would find my next CNC cut would be out slightly. I would get scalloped surfaces and fine parallel gouges when it was fine before... all because I hadn’t put the router back in the mount exactly the same as how I had trammed it in.
So now I leave the 611 in my CNC and bought a second 611 to use as a trim router and can still share collets between the two and not get the problems I was getting before. That way I get best of both worlds.
Great video!
Use a finger indicator an sweep it 360 deg that's what I did to insure a milling machine spindle was true to milling table.
Excellent info thanks.
Thanks Winston. Very informative. I have not yet bought a shapeoko but I think I am going to. I’m not sure that I’m smart enough to do all that you did but my question is will it operate sufficiently without doing all of that squaring? Also, I am a very very newbie at CNC and would like to know if you know a beginner’s program or tutorial on how to get going? I have a lot of dumb questions but being a newbie I just don’t know. Thanks Jerry
I'm about to take delivery of my very first CNC machine (an OX) and wondered about initial setup. Luckily I already have a dial indicator with magnetic base for checking the runout of my drill press so I'm all set. Just need to make my poor mans arm to do the spindle check.
Well done !!! Thank you
An update. After spending some time trying to tram my spindle and having little success, I had to set it aside for a while. I finally got back to it and looked more closely at the ripples that were being left in my work piece by my facing operation. What I noticed is that they were inconsistent. If the spindle was simply out of tram they should be consistent across the entire work piece. That led me back to the z-axis plate and that's where my issue was. The bottom wheels were not tight so the bottom of the plate was wobbling. I tightened the wheel up and the next test still had ripples but they were consistent. I removed the shims that I had put in before an now it's pretty much dead on or at least close enough for woodworking. So, lesson learned, trust Carbide's construction.
Wow that helped 100% thank you
Did you do a video for the face milling?
Supplementary wasteboard video would be 😎 awesome
Already made one, I think it was shortly after this video.
Hi Winston, great video! I've already ordered the calibration tools.. What spindle are you using and why did you pick it? Am looking at upgrading from my Makita router and would like a spindle that can be operated via Carbide Motion etc..
I'm actually using the Makita as my primary spindle. I'm not dealing with a ton of plastics right now, so I'm fine with the 10k RPM floor. For a spindle to be controlled by gcode (vis CM, UGS, etc it needs to accept a PWM signal and binary on-off signal from the control board. Routers can be hacked to accept this via something like Super-PID. Or you'll need a DC spindle (ex. Inventables Quiet Cut w/ Speed Controller or eBay equivalent). There are bigger DC spindles, water cooled, etc but I haven't dealt with them first hand so I can't advise you there. See: www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Spindle_Options
Thanks for sharing
How many straight hours can you run this machine?
I wish I could give another like for the bonus clip of the cute dog ;)
Hola, sabes de algún distribuidor en España? Gracias
Are these 'issues' fixed with latest versions of Shapeoko?
How did you make your “minor adjustment” in the z axis when testing how far the router moves with each step in the motor
I'll be at the SF MakerFaire, hanging with the Carbide guys. Hope to see you there!
I'll see you there! Definitely planning on hanging around the booth for a bit, but I gotta balance it with seeing the show. It's my first time to MF Bay Area and I want to visit EVERYTHING!
When will you be coming to Austin TX,
I noticed in this video the router keeps changing, any reason?
Are there any plans for the USA to join the modern world with metric measurements? Cool video! thanks! I really liked the spindle square section. Great idea!
Hi Winston, been following your videos so i can get started with my Shapeoko 3 XL, your videos are a great help! I was wondering what type of clamp set do you use when working with aluminum?, also, what collets and bits do you use? i know the dewalt router comes with a 1/4" collet, where can i find different size collets for smaller cutter bits?
www.elairecorp.com/dewaltroutercollets.html#dwpanchor
I've held aluminum purely with double sided tape before. But for clamping, even just my wooden clamps are sufficient if I get the aluminum stock close to a bolt hole. You only need enough pressure to apply friction to counteract the push from the endmill, which isn't as much as you think, especially with 1/8" or smaller endmills.
Thank you so much! just what i needed, also, i think i will add an aluminum wasteboard as it seems to be better for leveling and durability, quoted a local shop, shouldn't be more than 300, will post when its finished
Your dog looked very impressed with you
Do you have a way to square the X axis to the Y axis? On my Shapeoko 2, I struggled with this. You can't use the steppers and belts to force the x-axis into square. In my case I had a bur on the tapped holes of the x-axis extrusion that I had to clean up. Then when I remounted it to the side plates, it was square.
Without machining the ends of the extrusion to be perfectly square, it's hard to do. Best bet is to use shim stock to correct for any errors, if you can even measure it.
Hello Wiston,
What type of spindle would you recommend for cutting aluminium on your upgraded shepoco ? Thanks for your videos
Anything in the 1.2-1.5kW range is fine. Any more is likely overkill.
Hi, Winston. Love your videos. How do you adjust the steps if they're not coming out at 40/mm?
Kent Grabau look up how to modify grbl parameters.
@@WinstonMakes Thanks, Winston. I found the info I needed but it didn't help. This think just has a mind of its own and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it.
Winston I see that you checked the stepper motors but didnt explain how to compensate for discrepencies. Any help here. I just pulled my machine apart that I bought used, and I tightened the belts a little I have no idea how to actually program the compensation though.
You change the calibration by modifying the saved grbl parameters: github.com/gnea/grbl/wiki/Grbl-v1.1-Configuration
But the factory calibration should be good to within a fraction of a percent. This would be the last thing I would touch if I was troubleshooting the machine. Because if it's not this, you've just made things worse and harder to diagnose, as now nothing will ever read correctly.
what is included with the xxl
Lasers I think will take over in the future for cutting and engraving.
+alphasxsignal For flat shapes, sure. For 3D contours you have a long way to go. Look at examples of 3D laser engraving. Excellent detail, but surface finish is usually only "okay". The raster process is still quite discernable. And that's just in wood. Even most "2.5D" jobs on a cnc are impossible for lasers.
Hello Winston, I'm needing assistance in squaring my XXL. I've attempted many things and cannot get squared. two months into this purchase and it's yet to run for the first time... Please help...
Hi.. great videos. do you have any idea why my x- and x+ are going in the wrong directions? thanks. i need help.
Sounds like the wires are reversed or a GRBL setting is mixed up. Unless you want to splice a pair of wires, contact support.
Hi Winson.... I need some help with my XXL. Lots of issues with it, especially with consistency. I've owned it for almost a month, and I've yet to start what I bought it for because I've been dealing with support, and swapping out replacement parts. I was hoping maybe we could chat somehow. You seem to be a major expert on the unit, and I value your input.
I know about a decent amount, though I'm sure Carbide3D support themselves have seen a greater variety of failure modes. Shoot me an email (winstonmakes@gmail.com), and/or join the Unofficial Shapeoko Group on Facebook. People there are always eager to chime in.
Can this correction be done by using under plate, that would be cut to level, with it's lowest point, every time it bends?
Not sure what you're referring to. Any bending that you see is static and doesn't usually change.
Hello do you have a shop in azerbaijan ?
Hello, I know you had this video a long time ago but I want to know about the fiability of the Makita rt0701 ?
Does it handle long CNC runs for hours ? Usually which speed do you use ?
Thanks
I run anywhere from 1-4, usually between 1-3 on the dial. Put dozens of hours on it on the original brushes, no thermal issues. I highly recommend dust collection and/or a filter (sock) over the router because particulates will accelerate wear of the brushes. I have still yet to replace any brushes.
@@WinstonMakes ok thanks... I'll have to check out on my father's cause as I remember the speed dial is from 3 to 6. May be different between EU and us version
any chance you can share the file to cut the 3 inch plywood"calibrator"? buying the dial at this point might be out of my budget allowance :P
Look into buying a 1" surfacing bit. It only takes a few minutes to level my 36x36 area.
It's worth it. A cheap woodworking bit package is all you really need. I got a 20 bit package for 30$ on sale from Lowes.
Could also go with MicroMark's mini 1/4" shank fly cutter.
@@TylerHarney Just wondering if you have done this, and if so, how did you balance it? I wouldn't want to try running an unbalanced tool like a fly cutter at 10,000-30,000 rpm in any machine, much less a router....
Awesome Thank you
Hey man. I like your videos. I don't own a CNC router/mill, but am interested. I'm mainly looking for work on plexi and aluminum.. I wonder if there are any good alternatives to the Shapeoko 3 that I might want to look into ? I checked your other video on the Nomad, but I'd prefer the area of the Shapeoko.. Cheers
Zenbot, Shopbot, XCarve, Othermill, MyDIYCNC, CNC Router Parts... there's a bunch that you can look into. You want ideally something USB controlled (in my opinion), and a spindle that will go 10k RPM or lower. Everything else is to your preference. I think Shapeoko is one of the best values and I always point people to Make Magazine's 2016 comparison for reference, but ultimately, you have to decide what features are most important to you.
Thanks I'll look into these.
what kind of bit are you using at 1:50?
Did you "preloaded" the dial indicator before taking measurements? This is important to eliminate the slight play in the indicator.
Only by about a millimeter or two. But I went through the majority of the travel of the indicator to assess linearity of the measurement.
I never preload my dial. I use a Mitutoyo, and from the first contact I don't feel any play. It's like if the preload was made on factory, and it starts to count after this point.
What brand and type of tape do you use when mounting projects to the waste board prior to having the screw mounts?
I'm personally a fan of Nitto Permacel P-02: amzn.to/2sJTS4K
It's like high-strength masking tape, and double sided. Cleans up way easier than carpet tape. Little pricey, but works out to a couple cents a project over time. Other people swear by masking tape and krazy glue... which I can't see being fundamentally different than P-02, *maybe* cheaper, certainly not as convenient. Check ebay prices too.
Thanks. All I could ever find was the foam type and I was worried about the amount of deflection it would potentially have.
Could we get a link for the design of the part you cut for the spindle?
Sure thing, uploaded the SVG profile to my site: www.winstonmoy.com/2017/04/precision-tuning-shapeoko-3/
Cut w/ 1/8" endmill in 1/2" or thicker material. Ream w/ 1/4" drill bit if fit is too snug. SVG from inkscape, so set DPI to 90 and/or ensure file is approx 4" x 0.75".
thanks!
When I did the tramming on mine (I got lucky and 3D printed an adapter for my dial indicator that allowed it to fit under my gantry), I adjusted the spindle mount instead of the gantry. My theory was that if you already have your gantry square/level, then it was the spindle mount introducing the error. However, the bolts holding it on were a pain to get to and adjust. The other point of adjustment for that was also the Z rails to the Z plate.
I also HIGHLY recomend a spoiler board surfacing bit. I got mine from Woodcraft.
www.woodcraft.com/products/6210-cnc-spoilboard-surfacing-router-bit-1-4-shank
It is 1" diameter so the surfacing goes a lot faster. I also use it to surface objects too large for the planer.
great idea on truing the spindle but the flaw is: you drilled the holes using your out of square spindle therefore the holes will be out of plumb. I know it doesn't really matter as long as you rotate it, but it would be better if you used something to drill the holes you knew was dead nuts plumb.
Also what’s the black board bellow the stock waste board?
Immediately below the wasteboard is the steel frame of the Shapeoko. Below that I put a sheet of foam with the goal of evenly supportting the bed to prevent sag and reducing vibrations. It's effectiveness was inconclusive.
I just purchased my XXL. should be here in 3 days or so. now I'm looking at the router; do you recommended the Makita or DeWalt?
+Jesse Fritz I'm partial to the Makita with one warning. It's about a half inch shorter than the Dewalt, so small endmills may have a hard time reaching the table. But I usually shim everything with a 3/4" slab of MDF anyway. It has a lower minimum RPM which is really helpful with plastics.
OK. I'm going to be doing some Nylon and Acrylic, as well as Aluminum. Love these helper vids by the way. Excellent execution!!
I just looked up the specs on the Makita, it has a much lower min RPM 10k compared to DeWalt's 16k. This is huge. Think I might go with this. 10k is much more appealing vs 16k when doing plastics. If I find that it doesn't work for my needs, I can always return and purchase the DeWalt.
What bit are you using for surfacing the waste board?
Originally a quarter inch downcut endmill. Now I'm using a 1" Whiteside surfacing bit.
hi i just wanted to know do you still have this machine ? if so how is the reliability for you? i am new to cnc routing and was thinking about purchasing this machine as the price is reasonable but want a semi decent machine to mill mostly plastics like acrylic etc thanks
Still running. The technology is pretty straightforward, and replacements for things like belts and v-wheels are readily available.
i absolutely cannot get my wasteboard to come out clean. ive adjusted everything possible and my spindle is still slightly crooked forward and to the left.....so frustrating. i dont know what to do
If you can't get enough adjustment in the forward/back tilt of the router, you can try shim stock or aluminum foil under the router mount. You can also use a file or drill to carefully scrape off some of the powder coating on the carriage plates to get a tiny bit more adjustment.
Can you do a wasre board video?? Thanks
Like this one? czcams.com/video/MtA_uF4CnVM/video.html
Winston, it’s good you couldn’t afford the tramming indicator... why? Because if you can’t fit a standard dial indicator then you can’t even fit the mini-tram from Edge Technologies.
I got the Mini-Tram and found I had to extend my gantry up on my Ox just so it would fit... but it was well worth it. Cool thing is that I use it on my drill press as well... just don’t do what I did today and have the chuck detach and jam one of the indicators. 🤭
did you make the vac attachment?
No. Look up Suck It Dust Boot.
What do you use as an alternative to Carbide Create?
Fusion 360. But that's a bit more than just a CC replacement...
That's what i wanted to hear, thanks. Vcarve is a little above my budget right now, lol.
So you loosen the x axis mounting bolts and lift to get the x axis level, but then you loosen those bolts when you square the spindle? Isn’t that now making your x axis no longer level?
Leave one bolt on each side tight, pivot about that axis.
I was a good 0.05 inch off X axis and I was only able to get it to 0.04 off. I don't think the baseboard is twisted because it's almost exactly 0.04 inch off front and back. Will machine leveling the wasteboard take care of this offset anyway?
machine leveling will cure everything *except* tram error (rotation of the spindle relative to X-Y plane).
Okay cool. Thank you!
The Z axis is a problem. You need to square the axis itself so that vertical movement is actually normal to the x and y axes. Once you have that right you can align the spindle motor with your rotating rod. This adjustment needs to be just to the motor in its bracket.
How long does the alignment last?
Until the next massive swing in temperature/humidity or you drop 30 lbs on the wasteboard/frame. But tbh, I just don't touch it until the next time I feel like taking the time to refresh the calibration... which is very rarely. #goodenough