3 Abstract Game Reviews - with Tom and Zee
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- In this video, we discuss Hi Mi Ki, with its central mechanism of rock-paper-scissors; Canosa, in which you, a siren, influence sailors over to your island; and Tafl King, an ancient game in which one side protects the king while the other hunts him down.
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Please make another Tom vs Zee abstract challenge video.
Canosa is an excellent game. One rule I believe Zee may have missed is that the siren piece can also move diagonally. This opens up the movement of this piece considerably and makes the game much more tactical.
Really liked this despite not being that interested in abstracts, combining them into a single review works well! It is a little funny hearing Tom and Zee saying they've never heard of Hnefetafl even though it seems like there are at least two projects that get covered on Crowdsurfing every year that are just new styles of it.
Looking at the Wikipedia page, this version of Tafl is based on reconstructions made in the 18th-19th century. Thing is, those reconstructions were based on faulty translations from Linnaeus' description of the last game of this kind, which was played by the Sami in Lapland (Sweden-Finland Lapland at that time), so they had to change the rules and fix things because the translation didn't make sense. In Tablut, which is the game Linnaeus describes, the king needs to move to the edges, and can be captured by two enemies; when this was mistranslated as the king needing four enemies to capture it, they had to introduce the rule that the corners are the only place to escape to, etc.
Are their different capture rules for Tafl King than normal? Every time I heard the rules for Hnefatafl to capture a soldier it had to have a piece on each side so they were in the middle and not just on different sides of them. I mean two pieces sandwiching one between them, not the completely surrounding like the king.
Yeah, the rules for Hnefetafl at least require sandwiching.
@@ShackledDevYeah. I'm wondering if whoever made the game changed that rule or if Tom and Zee misread or maybe it's not as clear as it should be in the rule book.
Thinking about the name sort of confuses me to. Pretty sure I've heard Hnefatafl is translated to "kings table" so the game's called Table King?
So I've found the rules for THIS version of the game (on GameStormeStudio's website) and while the rules are a bit ambiguously written, the example imageS ALL show pieces surrounded on either side. So this version's rules are unchanged.
HOWEVER, what matters is if Tom and Zee played it with the rules as described in the video. Is THAT game what they gave an 8 to?
@unrealed is correct. The rules in this version are written ambiguously. Traditional Hnefatafl rules require captured pieces to be between two capturing pieces.
Glad you guys liked Hnefatafl even though you got the rules a little wrong. I count it as one of my key gateway games. I found it at a Viking fair type thing and someone bought it for me and I loved it. I even started a program at my library where people made their own custom boards.
If you liked this, there’s a variant called like Commander or something that’s a little more gamery.
I love that you basically reviewed Hnefatafl. :) Please do more abstract and classic (meaning: ancient) games; those of us who love them really love them, and it's hard to find good reviews of them! You want asymmetric - you should look at Bagh Chal.
Canosa is a very good game. Really enjoy that one. Classic chess feel, pure abstract brain burner. Quick but strategic. :)
Saw Canosa at Pax Unplugged three or four years ago. Thought the Board and pieces looked really nice. Looked like a pretty cool game too.
Thank you for taking the time to review Canosa.
Thank you for these reviews! Very interesting.
I'm also surprised you weren't aware of Hnefatafl (or Viking Chess) before. I've almost bought the version that's available at Barnes & Noble several times.
I bet the second game would be a winner if it was produced by Gigamic and changed the title to Qanosa!
I've seen TAFL king played before and I'm not 100% sure but I think Zee described the capturing mechanism in TAFL king (aka Hnefatafl) wrong! for a piece to be captured it must be between two opposing pieces that are across each other so that the three pieces make a straight line. also, I don't think you could trap the king with 2 pieces using the corner space as the 3rd surrounding space since it's a valid space for the king to move to but not for the attackers. again, I'm not totally sure, maybe they've tweaked a few rules in this printing of the game.
Tafl King has been sold as 'The Viking Game' for decades in the UK whether as a separate game or part of a x-games in one box set. Genuinely surprised you've never encountered it until now.
I played a 3m/Avalon Hill version of Tafl King called Break Thru in the 70's. I liked it a lot back then.
BreakThru only bears a passing resemblance to Hnefatafl. For instance, you can place your pieces anywhere after placing the "King", and capturing is completely different. Not really the same game at all.
When I played it, I knew it was based on the original game, but I didn't know what the original rules were. (Or that there were good records? Are there?)
I have a copy of Hnefatafl, and it’s a great game. This version has some really nice components
Time for a tafl renaissance
@TheDiceTower, as has been mentioned, the way Zee explained the rules is NOT the traditional rules of the game!
It would be great if you could reply to see if Tom and Zee made a mistake. That capturing rule is a BIG change! and if that's the way Tom and Zee played and they gave it an 8, it could be that it makes Tafl King better than Hnefetafl.
So knowing for sure would be very nice!
So I've found the rules for THIS version of the game (on GameStormeStudio's website) and while the rules are a bit ambiguously written, the example imageS ALL show pieces surrounded on either side. So this version's rules are unchanged.
HOWEVER, what matters is if Tom and Zee played it with the rules as described in the video. Is THAT game what they gave an 8 to?
Pretty sure tafl king is in the video game Mount and Blade. I have played it before. I might have played it in a different video game though.
Seems like TAFL King pieces need a mat clear coat spray.
I like the look of this version. Where can it be found? No luck on amazon.
Could probably spray the pieces with clear coat to help the chipping.
Its worth noti g yhe the rule as Zee described it could well be how the ga.e was traditionally played as my understanding is that while boatds and pueces have been discovered, no rules have, so all rules are a co.plete educated guess.
I imagine back when that guess happened that people had less mature play testing and development, so if this variation works, more power to it.
I must say when I saw the cover on the thumbnail I was expecting and hoping for a slighy nuanced version of the game, nit because the old rules are bad, juslust because it woukd be fun to see a new explorayltion of how the boards and pieces could be used.
Really? I'm surprised that you've never heard of Tafl King. I think I've know about it by another name though. There are a number of different versions as I understand it. I don't like any of the games you reviewed, although I will give Tafl King top billing as my favorite of the lot. I want some luck or chance in my games. The best laid plans and all that. I'm just not good enough to rely on my own skills. And I think that it's much more interesting to see how someone responds to an unexpectedly bad, or good, turn of events. I prefer to rely on the assistance of the Good Lady. And I will give her credit where credit is due.
I dont get it, you Got me salivating over Himiki and then you give it garbage notes, liekz i suuuuper want it soundsl ikeo ne of the best game ideas ever, how can this not be fun
Take a look at Brandubh, is an Irish version of Hnefatafl but smaller.