Leica M10R first review by photographer Thorsten von Overgaard
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2020
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Thorsten von Overgaard is a Danish writer and photographer, specializing in portrait photography and documentary photography, known for writings about photography and as an educator. You are always welcome to send an e-mail to Thorsten for questions, suggestions and ideas.
Thorsten Overgaard is an independent writer and photographer who write, teach workshops and publish user reports about the equipment he uses. There is no affiliation with Leica Camera AG or any camera dealers, no free gifts, no sponsorship, no kickback and no paid content. All you see is real and based on the life of an eccentric and hard-working photographer who makes his own money, buys his own equipment and form his own independent opinions - and shares with you. Enjoy the ride.
Video Credits:
Produced by: Thorsten Overgaard (www.overgaard.dk)
Equipment:
This video was made with the Leica SL bhpho.to/3cIbPEg and Leica 35mm Summilux-L ASPH f/1.4 bhpho.to/2MEr0nn , using Sennheiser wireless microphones bhpho.to/2zafn4v .
#Leica #review #M10R
Job #2037-0720
Thorsten von Overgaard is a tremendous resource for photographers such as myself. I have learned a whole lot from him. He does not engage in ideological puffery. He puts great emphasis on individual inspiration and uniqueness. I am always impressed by his comments and suggestions.
Always thoughtful and considered. Love the closing comments on printing
Thanks again for the videos you make. I’m still a M9 user, but I also still shoot film. Always wear a camera, no matter what kind you have.
Thank you for posting.... you are the first one for me who mentioned its not the size of megapixel.... now I will not upgrade my M body and will just shoot 🙏
A week ago I traded in my M10 for a new M10-R. The dealer gave me $3900 for my well-used but well-cared-for M10. The only problem I had was that the M10-R would not recognize the SD chip that I had been using in my M10. A new chip solved that problem. The M10-R is definitely a performance upgrade from the M10. If you have the money, I don't think you'll regret buying the M10-R.
Fully agree. The live launch event was sub par for today's standards and definitely a bit awkward. Not worthy of the camera.
So nice to have you back with a new contributing video. All true you said. Stay safe!
Thank you :-)
Love the statement about the "DDR 1984 moment" of the LiveEvent ;)
Thanks for the great work. I enjoyed your honest bare-boned review. Keep up the good work.
Thank you :-)
Amazing as always brotha!
How do the photos look with older lenses?
I'd be grateful if you'd do a video on using the Leica M10-R in combination with the 75mm Noctilux (shooting wide open) and the Leica Visoflex Type 020. I think you absolutely need the Visoflex to shoot the 75mm Noctilux wide open, but the Visoflex still leaves something to be desired. I find it REALLY tough to focus the 75mm quickly, quickly enough, and I'm blaming the Visoflex. Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks sir ....very guided ❤️🙏🏻
hello Thorsten Sir, ... had a query about my M10-P *White* limited edition + 50 Summilux .... it feels trickier to focus 50mm lens as its framelines are not as big as those for 28mm or 35mm lenses. So I was on the verge of ordering a 1.4x Magnifier (converts the 0.72x VF of M10P into 1.0x) .... but with it, I won't be able to see outside framelines. The Visoflex has low resolution, so I would much rather prefer magnifier over EVF. If Leica had bundled a 28 Summicron (having broader Framelines) ... instead of 50 Summilux, the compulsion or constraint of a magnifier would have been non-existent. Thanks & Regards from India.
Focus area is the same in the viewfinder for all lenses, but becomes more narrow from 28mm to 50mm to 90mm to 125mm. Magnifier or EVF would be an idea for 90mm and 135mm lenses.
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard Thank you very much sir.
I feel like unless you are using tripod or printing very large prints, there is no benefit to the R over the P... Plus you lose the 5 fps shutter, and buffer bogs down much faster with the larger files using the current electronics. I'll wait for the M11P before I upgrade my M10P.
glad to see you back, Thorsten. I would love a monochrom camera comparison video from all three generations
Something like that is coming, monochrome as a concept, and how to get it.
Hello Thorsten firstly great review specifically how you explained how to convert a M9 file into a larger size that said, I have a question with respects to the full resolutions file from the M9 transfer into Photoshop. Was the file corrected in Lightroom, Capture first or was the original DNG file exported into Photoshop? Cheers! 🥃
You edit your photo and finish in Photoshop. Then resize it to a bigger size ( in pixel or print size then it is all done automatically ) You can see the file size and understand the upgrade.
Good job T, I fully agree what you said about the megapixels not mattering so much for a large prints.I have many prints on my wall and some of my most favorite ones are from the smaller megapixel cameras but with unique vintage lenses. you caught me off guard at the end I thought you were going to say always wear a mask LOL 😂
Raychristofer mega pixels don’t matter as much as the processing capabilities of the camera and it’s dynamic range. Less pixels usually mean bigger eyeballs on the sensor, which can be a great thing
@@nickfanzo Bigger sensor eye balls, yo that should be a slogan lol. You're a genius😊
Raychristofer not my original saying lol
@@nickfanzo❤
Thorsten, you are talking about a bigger sensor, thats a bit misleading, the sensor is the same 35mm format, just the pixel density is higher, and not just 50% but around 70% more, sorry for nit picking, good work!
wouldnt one concern be that at this high resolution you need super steady hands or up the shutter quite a bit to get sharp shots? especially for street photography...
Lots of people mention their scare for too detailed photos with unstable hands. From 1/125 and 1/250 that isn't really an issue. When the first S came out with 30MP, it was visible that pictures were shaken, but that was mainly because the ISO was so low, so it required a lot of light to shine. The M10-R doesn't have that issue as you can mostly always find a way to get above 1/250 second exposure.
Benoit PIRET I don't think that's really an issue... having more megapixels may not make your photos BETTER if you have unsteady technique, but it won't actually make them any WORSE. (Unless you are tempted to print them at a larger size because you have higher pixel count, but then the remedy is simple: Don't do that!) I notice a lot of people are saying the same thing if they have older Leica lenses that they have been using happily on their 24-mp M10s: “Won't the higher resolution make my lens look worse?” The answer, is no, your lens won't look worse... it just won't look as much better as you might expect from the camera's higher resolution. There's a nice light-on-maths explanation of this in this LensRentals blog post; scroll to the end for the part headed “Appendix: Why Perceptual Megapixels are Stupid”: www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/more-ultra-high-resolution-mtf-experiments/
Tak igen. I just listened to the factory presentation und es war ganz Schmähvoll. I count on you for the plain, unvarnished truth. I'm not that bright, I need it explained simply. Tak igen
Nice review. Superbly balanced. Cropping really is the only reason for 40MP in a rangefinder or any camera really... 24mp is more than enough to print ANY size print, for the sheer fact that you view an image as a whole and not stare up close at a part of it.
Plus 40mp on a Leica and relying on just the rangefinder is not ideal. Although there’s the Typ 020 viewfinder, it’s not the best and composing and focusing on a rear screen is not nice either.
Stunning camera though.
One year ago i bought Q2. I checked your video out on Q2 shortly after and you said "the only "bad" thing about Q2 is that you will end up buying M cameras. I thought that was funny. Today i bought M10 R. :( LOL
Yes, it's true.
After years of shooting with a classic M6, I began shooting with an M10.
Now, I am considering replacing my M10 with an M10-R.
Leica just gave me a 10-R for a few months. I never shot digitally for my personal work. This should be very interesting. Thank you for this review. Peace
I like it, but I like the SL2 better. What do you think about using M lenses on the SL2?
The SL2 takes M lenses well, which can not be said for Fuji, TL2 and other. The sensor has to be "prepared" for M lenses, and both the M and SL sensors are.
I’m intrigued by your affection for “vintage” lenses. My relationship with Leica began almost 50 years ago with a second hand M3 and a mid 1950s 50 mm Summicron. A 35 mm Summarit and 90 mm ‘cron followed. We still go out together, but my Fuji Pro2 gets a lot more use.
Now, I just might be able to afford an M10, but an M10 plus 50 mm Apo Summicron and 35 mm Summilux are ‘way out of reach! The question is, then, would the old lenses on an M10R be like buying a new Porsche 911 and fitting it out with tyres from a 1960 Volkswagen? My sense is that when I want the “true” Leica experience, I should just put a few rolls of film in my pocket and grab my trusty M3. My Fuji can take care of digital duties. Any thoughts.
New lenses will contain details you couldn't see with other sensors, and old lenses will equally have new details - bot overall a less crisp look (less contrast).
The M10 is an insanely good camera, but take a look at the M240. Relatively new but not as expensive as the m10 line. You can use your old lenses without any problems.
What is the lens on your green M10? Thanks!
Leitca 50mm Elmar-M f/2.8 collapsible
Can you remove the red dot on it? Not sure why then went with it given M10 monochrom doesn't have it.
No, you can't remove it. If you get the black, you can buy a. black dot that is very discrete.
They went with the red dot so that next year they can sell you an “M10-PR” with a big old hillbilly slotted-head screw instead of the red dot, for US$ 1000 more money!
@@jlwilliams I don't think that is the plan, but you never know. Maybe they get into the idea they had with the M240, that all cameras are Leica M, but they upgrade and add features to them as they become available (like the MacBook, what was the idea). I think the next one is the M11. I personally lusted for the M10-P in white, but now that one became sort of irrelevant. While we just want a nice simple camera, Leica has to find ways to keep selling. Maybe 40MP speaks to a new audience who wouldn't get a Leica else. We will learn more in the coming years :-)
You are the first to address this absolutely weird live event. Christoph walz definitely did not want to be there. Absolute cringe but entertaining. 😅
With 42mp and no IBIS, I wonder if the standard rule of matching the speed to the focal length as a minimum, e.g minimum 100th of a second for a 100mm lens to ensure sharpness, will have to change.
Probably will have to change that a bit, and that goes for 24MP and 18MP as well. But it's 40MP, it's not THAT big of a change from 24MP. Just more details when the light and subject enables it.
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard Thank you, and also for the comment on 24mp and 18mp. It's much appreciated. My current camera is 16mp and no image stabilisation.
Very interesting and informative
Dream camera, again. Can’t justify spending 7k on a luxury camera during an economic depression though.
specializing in portrait photography , thumbs up
Yup. That live launch event was not great. The technical Leica Talk on M10-R from Leitz-Park the day after was nice and slick. The live launch need some more scripting, assuming it had some in the first place! And as much as I love Christoph Waltz, and despite his visit not being planned, he was a distraction and not even a Leica owner!
10:50 i didnt quite understand how to preserve schapness when making 180 cm big prints. Usually medium format and 80 mp is necessary.
My Leica M11-P has been a complete disappointment with freeze issues...I had it replaced and that froze up as well. I am going back to using my Leica MP film camera including my Oskar Barnack camera from the 1930's which seems to be more reliable than any digital cameras recently made by Leica.
If I want resolution,I take a A7Rx when I want to shoot leica I take my M9
SL2..... best M lens camera with hires (after the M10R)
What would you get for the same prize? M10p or m10R?
M10-R
Who produced your 180 cm prints?
I've used a printer in Singapore (there's two who can do that size and laminate onto aluboard in Singapore), and I've used a printer in Salzburg for the exhibition there. And so on. If you google "aluboard + c-print" or "aluboard + lambda print" you will find a printer that can do that size and laminate in-house. That is the one you want to use. And you will also realize that when you visit them, they already work for museums and top photographers, so tonality, color control and all is in place as well with guys who does that. You could also go with inkjet print, but I wanted to use c-print/lambda which is light print on light-sensitive photo paper. Anyhow, when yoiu find a printer that does lambda/c-print, they also have inkjet and you can discuss the options and see what you want.
I like shooting Jpeg, fits more with the rangefinder philosophy. Work for the good lighting and let the scientists at Wetzlar taken care of the colors.
I'll happily get the Leica M when they add Video. 4K video for the decisive video moment.
The Leica SL is great sensor and camera for 4K video. Don't think they will add it to M again.
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard As much as the SL2 a great camera I want the M with the Swiss army knife of features.
Some years ago I sent a message to Leica's social media team. I said that the M should never have video features ever again. I think they already agreed with me before I wrote to them. But, great minds think alike!
@@Biosynchro Socialist's think the same take from others. To even comment that you wrote Leica to remove the video feature sums up what type of person you are.
@@PissTakeProduction I'm always open minded to criticism. But I'm not sure what your point is. I think that the M should be like an iPod: very highly focused. What a camera doesn't have is as important as what it does have.
Would you trade in the M10 for the M10R?
Yes, but the M10-P I would likely keep (I did) and then get the M10-R as well (which I did, but not sure I needed it)
I laughed so hard at the „DDR 1984“ comment!
As always: Interesting and informative.
The M10R has a bigger sensor than the other M cameras? That's news to me...
👍
the sensor get bigger because of more pixel ? what?
More, not bigger
Silent shutter? Not really, is it? Either it is Silent or it is not.
Love your honest insight and anyone one can see the passion with which you speak. Great you mentioned about the live event Leica did, even though it was awkward it was a start to something great and as you said it, I hope Leica does this more often, dont matter how bad the conversations maybe, I love to hear what they have to say about their cameras, they are quite honest about it and they point of view, their reasons behind that and this special addition camera, love those insights! Leica is a company that is full of uniqueness, quality, but their keep a lot to themselves about the what's and the why's. please share with us!
Thank you!
@@harrylangdon491 exactly, I did not mean to be mean or negative about it. I liked it. and I know English is their second language, its also mine. I put awkward in a general context contrasting between the full on presentation that we are used to.
M10 monochrome review pls :)
There's a M10M picture hidden inside this video :-)
So am i missing something, or is this review of the M10R by a photographer who has never shot with an M10R? Wow. Quick do a review on the M11.
I am not sure this new camera is a real step forwards. Maybe a strategic launch to keep the gap vs competition closed till more the M11 is available... what do you think guys? instagram.com/harmjan.schuurman/
Get an M9 and stop this madness
Ptah Hotep I have the M-P240, love it and use it daily. This rapid cycle of upgrades is quite exhausting. I used my Dad’s Canon AE-1 for about 15 years before it became unfixable. Used the M8 for years until I sold it to a a young student who had dreamed of shooting a Leica since he was 12. As long as they make the photos we want we should use what we have.
Leica has just announced that their M9 sensors are out of stock and they will no longer replace any defective M9 sensors.
2:06 why does everyone forget the leica M10-D?
Sorry, it's being phased out anyways (thought that is not why. I simply forgot it in all the M, R and P's)
So the M10-D is a limited edition Leica- pretty short run
Magic Of Light why is it being phased out?! I personally find the M10-D to be the best built and nicest looking of all the M10 variants.
@@RobbieSwan Well, Stefan Daniel (the product manager) said in a recent interview that it would phase out as it "is a narrow market" and a very special camera. So I think there are enough around in stock and stores to keep almost everyone happy. The MD262 was sort of the same, it was there and then it's still in a few places and some second-hand options.
Only the first one is 'expensive'... the ones following are 'necessary purchases'...
Why not use Sony A7r iv ? Intrigued to know why you choose Leica when Sony has more to offer.
I’ll give you my answer. It all comes down to a matter of taste. The Sony products are wonderful as are the the feature-rich, quality offerings from Nikon, Canon, and Fuji. That’s just me. It’s all a balancing act between what you want out of your system and what you can actually do with it. Personally, I’m in love with the non-clinical nature of the Leica lenses versus the super-crispy Sony and Fuji offerings. It’s hard to explain without sounding like a Leica “snob”, but for me, it’s really true. Like Thorston, I find an incredible magic in the Leica lenses shot wide open especially with the Noctilux lenses creating a look that’s impossible to achieve with products from any other manufacturer. That is not said to denigrate the marvelous products they create in any way. It’s meant only to emphasize that every artist/photographer has his or her vision and should shoot whatever helps them achieve it. To me, it all comes down to what makes you feel best as the photographer, inspires you to create, and allows you create what you want. As a nature photographer, I’d love to use the Sony for its incredible sharpness and flexibility in longer focal lengths. This is especially true for long-distance animal and bird work. Unfortunately, I’m not part of that ecosystem. Instead, I trade that for photos that deliver a different feel, depth of field flexibility, and the colors that the Leica systems help me create. It’s really a matter of choice. There is no correct answer. I, for one, am glad that we live in a time of such wonderful choice and amazing technologies. It allows us all to be the best we can be using the best tools for our own individual tastes and ambitions. In the old days, we debated film choice and whether we should all be shooting in large or medium format. Now, we carry all of that in a compact, handheld package and choose the feel we want via the manufacturer’s algorithms, lens design, and our own post-production skills. We all owe it to ourselves to shoot and process using every major system and then make the choice that’s best for us and what we want out of our photography. There is no one, correct answer. Only the one that’s right for you.
The M11 and Sony could somewhat be perceived to tbe the same. The sensor is the same, or very similar. I would get the M11 for 9K instead of the Sony for 3.5K because I want the simplicity, the build and using M lenses on it. And the resale value of the Leica will stay high. Likely it will drop from 9K to 5K - 6K in 5 years, which is a reasonable write off in my eyes.
Sharpness is a [petit] bourgeois concept, said a famous Leica shooter.
Is a review respectful when you never used a product? I mean respect for viewers and their time.
Leica has a challenge with its backward compatibility. The glass layer of tiny lenses oriented in an increasingly, from center to corner, sharp angle towards the lens's rear end, has limitations.
The optimized pure Gaussian lens design with modern coatings that take glare away would be great for film, but a sensor wants perpendicular incident light. This is why new mirrorless digital camera-lenses are even more elaborate retro-focus than their predecessors for mirror boxes.
While the "Monochrom" is a great concept, it doesn't solve the optical sensor problem - it removes the R, G, and B filters, it skips de-Bayerization and demosaicking, but not the per-photosite lenses. With the gradation-resolution this opens up to, a great Leica potentially. If the Leica firm would open up on how the sort-of-Fresnel layer matches with their lenses, that would be great.
As to color cameras, I still dream of a full frame (double frame for Leitz historians) Foveon. 24MP would really be enough and if "we" could get more than 30 bits at RGB color space level that would be great. And, gradation resolution: for n f-stops of dynamic range I want bit depth>n.
Great review. This is why you’re the best!
Thank you :-)
Can you please do a review of the s3 !?
Not planning on it, but you never know. It's a nice camera.
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard
Indeed it is .. all leica like heroin :)
if same day you did try it with the 100mm.
On one hand these cameras are crazy expensive. But on the other hand... when buying new cars... people go right ahead without too much thought to upgrading a largely useless wheel and trim package costing nearly as much as a new model Leica! That all said... my own circumstances limit me to the D-Lux 7 which quite frankly gives me images that seem often better than what I see posted as samples from the much more expensive cameras. I thus wait for my dream... a Leica camera that looks exactly like and with the same functionality of the D-Lux 7 just a bit bigger so as to fit a full frame sensor with that same equivalent 1.7 Aperture 25-75 zoom lens. Yes... it will be considerably more expensive than a D-Lux7. But to have it I am prepared to eat plain rice for a couple of years....
The D-Lux 7 is actually nice, the contrast of the files a bit hard, and too many buttons and options in the menu. But if one can control that, it does a good work.
Put me down for number 0002
how is it even possible leica did not send you one for a youtube test video?
It’s inaccurate to say the new 41 megapixel sensor is larger then old 24 megapixel sensor. They are identical in size.
Yes, larger in number of megapixels. Same 24x36mm size.
Hmm Interesting, Well my concern is what will it be next? Because Leica has basically gone all the way to a 40mp camera so what else will they include in say the M11, IBIS, built in EVF? If so then it will be braking away from the M Ethos as in ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed. So I think the M10, M10P, M10M may be the last that will hold the ethos of the M in a digital world, because once you go to Built in EVE and IBIS then you fall into the main stream digital cameras. Non the less I will keep my MP-240 for now.
Thanks Thorston very informative as always. Dominique
Dominique Pierre-Nina
Film Photographer and Dark Room Printing
Phone: +61410471375
Website: www.pierreninaphotography.com
Email: pierreninaphotography@gmail.com
IG: @pierreninaphotography (instagram.com/pierreninaphotography)
I guess it will be increasingly difficult for Leica to attract people to buy the next M. The M9 was a revolution, everything after that is nice to have, but the M9 is still a cozy and great camera. They could go up in price and down in numbers now that they have Q, SL and other things that sells and can recycle. But even Q and SL, what's the point in upgrading other than a relatively few improvements. It's not that technology demands a brand new camera every 3 years.
@@MagicOfLight_ThorstenOvergaard Thorsten, you’d better remove this comment. I took it to heart, that we have an agreement; they make cameras, we - buy them. 😊
Can u adopt me :-) I love with leica but not able to buy signal ☝️
I like your style, but I prefer MarkusPix
🤣
I think I'd have be into Oil...or A Mexican drug cartel, to have that body of cameras.
I love Leica, but technology does not honor the price, or the price does not pay the quality given. Fujifilm ahead as of today.
Antonio FL fujifilm is the best camera company out there right now, period.
There is no reason to spend this much on a digital 35mm style camera. You can get a fujifilm gfx in medium format for $4000 and it will slaughter this thing
It's about more than having a camera. You can get many cameras for less that has qualities like MP, AF, 4K and more. This camera has some qualities that are unique and speak to some people, which can't be found in other cameras.
Magic Of Light like? Seriously asking.
Magic Of Light I mean I understand about qualities but a that doesn’t justify $9000 in my opinion when I can get a lot higher resolution photography for half in medium format
@@nickfanzo We're all different. For me a simple, well-built camera that can shut.the.f--.up so I can work with my vision is worth more than anything else. Same reason I don't watch television. I just want to work and create. It goes with the best lenses in the world, so it's really a no-brainer. Others would buy another camera, others again a dog or new wheels for their car or a pool for the kids. We're all different. The intervention has to come from the person himself to gain new experiences and reach new levels.
Don B guess so, but again I don’t think Thorsten has to pay for his. Maybe they give them to him to try for free? For me 8,000 is three mortgage payments.
I’ll stick with my M3
Am I missing something here or is this a review by someone who has never even held the camera??