The 300,000 Year Warning: Atomic Priesthoods and Ancient Hazards
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 19. 06. 2024
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đĄ -------------- sources, credits, & chapters -------------- đĄ
0:00 intro
0:45 the concept of deep time
1:22 waste isolation pilot plant and their task
2:49 the challenges of long-term communication
4:15 proposed solution (atomic priests, concrete thorns, etc.)
5:40 contributors with diverse expertise
6:04 similar problems from the past
6:29 another proposed solution (ray cats)
6:58 the four ideas necessary to communicate
9:04 comparisons to communicating with extra-terrestrials
9:31 offering our own solutions
12:11 hello fresh ad
13:35 cta
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* this episode was safely recorded in early August, and all production crew were distanced and masked
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Additional Information
How to build a nuclear warning for 10,000 yearsâ time
www.bbc.com/future/article/20...
Tsunami Stone photo
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
99 Percent Invisible on tsunami stones
99percentinvisible.org/articl...
Voynich manuscript scans
brbl-dl.library.yale.edu/vufi...
Radiocarbon dating the Voynich manuscript
news.arizona.edu/story/ua-exp...
Voynich manuscript on Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich...
Stonehenge photo
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehe...
Nazca lines (and photos) on Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazca_L...
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"The Fallow Fellow" by Cullah
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O simple draw a diagram of the atom giving off neutrons or what ever on any EVERYTHING there and make it a sore to the eye's and ugly
No matter how long as long we have science then the diagram would be seen
The people might not know EXACTLY what it means like the fire demands but even if people forget what the symbol people who knows science will understand what the diagram represents and will at least be careful when going further untill they find out why you put it there then they'll do the same thing
Talk about Rokos Basilisk
That bump key video was the second (scamschool) video Iâve seen from you guys (first one was throwing cards like gambit from 10 years agođ±) and I was hooked since.
What about Math? The universal language... surely there is an algorithm for death. :)
Carve a skeleton over the door install a airlock and lock it behind diamond coated bars then lock it behind a safe then cave it all in with the skeleton on the outside with a noose around its neck.
A message which reads. "Not only will this kill you, it will hurt the whole time you're dying." And re language it every 25 years
and write it in every language we have.
That assumes that civilisation will believe that. Just like how people were convinced certain tombs were cursed, and that raiding such tombs would be the most painful death you could experience. It didn't take too long for people to eventually stop believing in the curse. We need to convince people for 300,000 years that the site is indeed dangerous, and that people will genuinely die if they go too close.
@@BrodieEaton Make it actually dangerous to get to...no wait...then we'd just find a way around them...damn it we need ACTUAL CURSES.
Sounds more like a Redbull ad than a safety warning tbh
In 25 years, our kids will have to update it with their stupid verbage. It will read "Dead ass skrt, yo. Dis shit will have you shook fam. Swerve, no cap."
Here's the move: Instead of designing it to keep people out, design it to keep something in. Make spikes that point TOWARDS the cave. Draw some pictures of a ferocious beast devouring people. Traps that would only work if something was on its way out. Every attempt to communicate danger externally to the people exploring the area is going to encourage further exploration due to the curiosity factor. But if we make it seem like we've trapped some world-ending thing, then maybe people will just leave it alone.
Glad you covered this though because I've read about it and I find it thoroughly interesting.
That would work, I think just burying it really deep in a salt flat and have 0 landmark or interesting features of where itâs located would work as well, really what would be the probability that future humans go to the exact spot and dig down 1,000s of ft and find where the waste is located
Then your gonna have a buncha morons treating it like the highest level dnd dungeon. " whats in that unerving cave" "a great beast that has taken all our scavengers" " i shall go slay the beast!"
Words may have changed a lot over the years, but drawings have been used since the beginning of time to convey messages. So if you wanted someone 300,000 years in the future not to go somewhere, writing out "Danger, do not enter, radiation" would be significantly less effective than showing a sign with a picture of the area, a picture of a person walking into it, and then a picture of that person throwing up and dying. The meaning of words changes even the words themselves change, but pictures are universal
Your right to a point, because 300,000 years is so long, we might evolve to think completely different, but pictures would work for at least the first 100,00 years.
The above is just my opinion, calm down
Dying just by just walking in? sound like a tumb curse to me to scare looters, bet you it is full of goodies
We can't assume they will read sequences in the same order as we do, just as how we still have some languages which are written right to left today. Attempting to mark the sequence can prevent the message from being read out of order, but not backwards.
@@unconditionallove6524 yeah, it's entirely possible that it will change, and it certainly has over time albeit more slowly than language. But the real difference is the way drawings work compared to languages. While languages assign a specific sound and series of symbols to have a specific meaning (for example, the word death in English, and the word muerte in Spanish have the same meaning. But if no one knew both languages, no one would know that unless they learned it, which they couldn't do unless they were to try and reverse engineer the language (think hieroglyphics and the Rosetta Stone.) Drawings, on the other hand, emulate reality to get their point across. So even if two people draw a dead person two different ways, and they don't already know what the other person's picture signifies, it's still pretty easy to see what a picture is emulating, and therefore discern it's meaning. For example, I don't know any letters in the Arabic language, but if someone who spoke Arabic wanted to communicate with me or vice versa, we could still use pictures and actions to figure out how to communicate, like a game of Charades
@@parkerr3244 that's a good point, even if pictures don't change, the very way we look at the pictures could change and affect their interpretation
Honestly the concept "ancient atomic monks" is something I could totally both 100% see in the future and in the Fallout series
I think that's where the Children of Atom came from
There is no better idea than *_THE ATOMIC POPE!_*
The atomic god maybe
Im thinking an entire medieval style knightly order with the Atomic Pope at the top with Atomic Priests of various levels to spread the information and Atomic Knights of different levels to protect the priesthood and the sites.
The atomic priest hood just sounds like a precursor the church of atom or what ever the religion is called that worships the atom bomb In the megaton crater
@@novaiscool1 or future foundation and Hari Seldon's Scientism
Atomic Punk: open.spotify.com/track/6XzfupaB5ikgUMnrFgJBvS Lyrics: genius.com/Van-halen-atomic-punk-lyrics
ideas coming to mind: several identical rosetta stone-type markers ringing the the perimeter, detailing something along the lines of âthis area is dangerous, there is nothing of value here, this is how it will affect you, and if you insist on investigating anyways here are some ways you might be able to protect yourselfâ in at least 5 major, unrelated languages. accompanying this would be images of human figures being sick or suffering radiation burns, and maybe a periodic table and atomic models of the dangerous elements + the lead that could be used as shielding
This and still have the atomic priesthood. The pics and words would help the priesthood remember and teach the future generations.
I was thinking the same thing
I'm honestly surprised that this isn't the most popular method
@@ryla22 the big problem is that in 300k years the very concept of elements may fall out of common knowledge. But I personally think that what with humans obsession with cataloging info we stand a decent chance of information still having a way to be translated
Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best.
@@jameshenderson4094 If in 300,000 years humans do not understand elements or the dangers of radioactivity, will ANYTHING prevent them from screwing around waste sites?
Are they purposefully dressing like Adam & Jamie? Thought this was going to be a Mythbusters parody.
You mean Legend Testers...
The transformation into Adam Savage is incredible. Now we need the walrus mustache
The fact you made that connection, is an honor and compliment to them
Michael Gonzalez ok I always thought Brian looked a touch like Adam, especially with his hear longer but I never noticed Jason is starting to look like Jamie and now I canât unsee it
@@kendallchaos the fact that he has a beret on really just sells it
Jason needs the all new "Modern Robe" Perfect for all your Atomic Priest need. Comes with enough pockets to hold a flask, a complete set of 2 throwing knives, and home made flash-bangs
This need to happen!
Holy crap, yes! It has to have a radiation logo on it
Cause Have a Modern Rooooooobe!
Surprised magician-brain didn't bring up the other half: Distraction.
Essentially: Don't simply mark a dangerous area, build safe spots within that area that are more interesting, ex: functional small buildings made of lead with the walls etc. wrapped in inch-thick glass (takes millions of years to degrade) that denote safety from the danger and what the danger is.
clever
I don't think that is a good idea. What if they decide to settle there, or make the place an exhibition?
It is not that you simply wouldn't want them to dig there, but you also wouldn't want them to build a city there.
@@jort93z I was thinking about if they randomly planted I guess fake archeological sites in the area but far enough away from the waste that the future people wouldn't have a reason to be near the waste. On top of that we can still probably profit off of those fake archeological sites today
@@jort93z Making an exhibition would be no issue. It might end up like Ol'Reliable, or literally any volcano park in existence. Sure a few people may have to die before they discover that they have to make special rules, but ultimately they would establish the site as to having an avoidable danger. The settling there, well that would be an issue, but considering it is planned to be a salt flat, it is unlikely anyone would live on just salt, as it would make life very difficult without constant trade with a settlement not on top of infertile land.
@@danielvalentine2191 Well, this is not just a National issue. Nearly every developed nation on the entire planet will need a place to store their spend nuclear fuel. Doubt any one nation will take the nuclear fuel of the others.
Here in germany we don't have salt flats, every place is perfectly habitable. Yet, we are looking for a place to store our nuclear fuel for a million years at the moment.
Also, the idea is that these signs are for a case where something catastrophic happens and knowledge about radiation is lost.
Radiation is a danger much harder to grasp than when you fall in a pit of magma and burn alive.
The uranium atomic structure diagram. This actually reminds me of an SG1 episode where they did a common language and it was based on atomic structure, bc it's a constant.
The only potential issue with that is if ewe assume some catastrophe happens and we lose the science of today. People wouldn't know what that means, a vast majority of people today wouldn't understand that even.
Having just looked it up given that I didn't remember what it looked like off the top of my head, I can say with certainty that if I was exploring the desert and found this I would assume it was some sort of tribal symbol, or maybe if they did the big geographical change thing a series of markers where ancient relics/treasures could be found.
Universal languages like that don't really make sense though, just because atoms are the building blocks of the universe doesn't mean different cultures will assign the same meanings to them. For example, maybe to us gold represents wealth, but it's horribly toxic to some alien species so they view it completely differently. There just isn't an objective way to represent a concept in this "universal" language.
For the record, I love SG1 but they didn't really think a lot of things through, especially in the early seasons.
I love everything about the WIPP. My favorite part of the proposed ideas are the menacing earthworks. In particular, the idea of making giant spikey stones out of black concrete so they get super hot under the desert sun such that trying to pass through them is unbearably hot. Essentially, make the land around the site so inhospitable that even people drawn there because "it's so freaking metal, dude" will be forced to turn back.
"So in this episode we're microwaving... Cats?" - future Modern Rogue episode. (A Future Rogue?)
All hail the Atomic Pope!
No hailing the Atomic Poop.
I like the idea of putting on the waste âDangerâ in every language on earth, so then in the future at least one of them is at least known to the point they can figure out that itâs bad.
Only issue is language changes all the time. We have a lot of dead languages they people just can't decipher and newer changes to current languages leave some things unknown.
Killrade yeah but thatâs the point of all the languages to make sure thereâs at least one they can get too and possible there will be a Rosetta Stone of some kind to help.
See that is a tricky one. I donât know what to make it out of other then Gold or something. But yeah it could say âDangerâ or âDeathâ both get the message needed across but death I feel would get a bigger reaction like what if we found a box that simply said âDeathâ over and over in a bunch of ancient languages
So basically the Rosetta stone idea lol
Ryan Larose yes
RE: The Pirate Flag (Skull and Cross Bones)
Allegedly, the basic "pirate" flag was the Naval Battle Flag of the Knights Templar. When the French went after them, on Friday the 13th non-the-less, a bunch grabbed their treasure, got in their boats, and fucked off to parts unknown.
Some, allegedly, became Privateers for various counties that didn't really side with France in their desire to be done with the Templars. Some decided everyone was fair game and turned Piracy up to 11.
Skull flags definitely pre date the golden age of piracy, but in the military context not by much, which is likely where it came from, the cavalry standard of Ă ke Tott's cuirassiers from the 30 years war for instance displays a skull with flames bursting out of the eye sockets. Tott of course means death in German, and he played to this during the Swedish campaigns in Germany, earning a rather grim reputation, no doubt partially because of his regimental standards which always had some kind of skull motif. I wouldn't be surprised if other contemporary military leaders did this as well. Speaking of Curassiers there are of course the famous Savoyard skull helmets from this period, so the usage of skulls in a military context was definitely not entirely uncommon. I don't know much about the Knight's Templar however, a lot of their history is very muddied by conspiracy, later attempts at demonizing them and just the general secrecy involved with their order, so I can't confirm the existence of a skull flag, though I've never heard of one, still it isn't impossible.
Fallout fans: Do you want children of Atom? Because this is how you get children of Atom.
I would put several animal skeletons all around the perimeter, including human, not like cadavers or perfect models, but imperfect, real skeletons. That way if humanity evolved, at least there would be other animals signaling that this is a bad place, and all life dies here.
Also: where can sign up to be an atomic bishop Jason? I wish to be the first.
Oh wow they must have buried their dead here!
lets go, archeologists
Chris yeah, your right, didnât think about that
@@unconditionallove6524 Another issue is that the skeletons would probably decompose with that amount of time, unless they where somehow fosilized.
"Many people died trying to get to the centre of this region. Clearly there is a great treasure there!"
those Skeletons aren't going to last very long. they'll disintegrate in 100 years or less.
or if completely Fossilized, give it 10 or 20,000. when we find Fossilized Skeletons sitting at the surface in places around the world, they tend to be broken up into tiny chunks smaller than the size of a Thimble because the remains just degraded, broke up, then got spread around by the elements.
I agree with one of the final possible solutions, have the UN update the language/terminology of the warning, every 100 years, starting with English, Spanish, Russian, French, Mandrin, Hindi, and Swahili as well as local indigonous languages, have the UN keep a record of the site's location, meaning any future civilizations would have to first discover a document with a warning, detailing what happend, and why they shouldn't unearth what is burried
I think this is the best answer, but I think the instruction to keep updating it should be part of the message itself, not just kept with the UN, since the UN won't last that long. The message should describe the danger, it should include some kind of Rosetta Stone guide for understanding the language it's in, it should list the date of the most recent update (in several different formats, not just the Gregorian calendar), and finally, it should tell the reader to duplicate the entire thing after 100 years and include the date. Even if some far-future civilization totally drops the ball and it doesn't get updated for 3000 years, there will still be enough versions spanning enough time that civs even further into the future will still be able to make sense of it. The only drawback is that a massive salt flat covered in Rosetta Stones would be an amazing tourist attraction.
Jason: "Jesus was a pirate!"
Me: get out Of MY HEAD!!!!
He drank the blue water of life!
does somebody got fan art of pirate jesus
Well, He hang out with tavern wenches and custom guys...
Just straight up put land mines there lol, every couple of generations someone forgets and get their leg blown off and spreads the news
That was one of my ideas. Bosniacs and the Vietnamese would concur, I think
Again, after some dude lost his leg to a 21st century explosive they would think there is probably something important there.
And then some enterprising warlord comes along to gather as many of these ancient weapons as he can get his hands on, disturbing the earth. If he digs too deeply, too greedily (as warlords are wont to do) he will uncover exactly that which we are attempting to contain.
@@caeligocielo5634 The Balrog? please tell me they'll uncover The Balrog
One of the concerns in the WIPP proposal is that if the warning system is too aggressive, it will give people the (very wrong) idea that the site is protecting something valuable and that whatever is in there is worth the effort to breach the defenses and dig it up--The exact opposite of what we want.
As a nuclear chemistry dropout, I'm 10,000% down to join the atomic priesthood.
why a dropout doe? :(
@@Doomsday499 combination of the tail end of the 2008 economic crisis and the fukushima reactor meltdown. Any job security that that degree could get me evaporated overnight, and now nearly a decade later the public is okay with nuclear power again.
you know, as its not an official position as of yet, all it would take is for you to start calling yourself that and to spread the information throughout your life, and to have successors (related or not) to also continue doing the same. I know I sure as hell will, fucking brilliant conversation piece
@@nathanmiller9381 agreed. I might have to get my business cards updated.
@@nathanmiller9381 Priestly Brotherhood of the Atomic Warning?
Bryan nailed it.
Just put the salt flat back like you found it. There was no reason for anybody to GO there BEFORE, so you just return it to that level of disinterest/desolation.
So, we should keep in mind that we re-learned lost languages of Egyptian Heiroglyphs and Demotic script due to the Rosetta stone -- same text, three columns, three languages. Engrave lots of plates in durable materials with multiple languages. Maximize the chances that one or more of the languages will still be known.
Also, create a technological puzzle, so that only a highly technical culture can reach the waste, and assume that a highly technical culture will understand pictographic and multilingual warning signs. Plus Rosetta stones.
Your multiple parallel text idea sounds like the Georgia Guidestones. Look em up if you don't know about them.
Yes but it hasn't been 300,00 years since the Ancient Egyptians. Broadly speaking the Egyptians were yesterday . And how many minds across how many years did it take for us to decipher it. And Even now our understanding of these ancient languages isn't perfect.
And it's only been a measly few thousand years.
Like Purge said, Egyptian Hieroglyphics were relatively recent. How many languages from 300,000 years ago can any human alive understand now?
Idea: Why not just bury the material in the subducting plate of a convergent plate boundary so it gets pushed deeper into the Earth.
Putting it in a seismically unstable zone increases risk of containment failure, and nobody wants to be the one responsible for atomic lava. Plus, it is extremely difficult (and dangerous) to dig deep into somewhere you know the ground is unstable. A few miles is barely scratching the surface compared to how far youd have to go.
@@callsignapollo_ Good point. I guess it is also difficult to justify the risk when the reward for the effort will only be for future generations in thousands of years time.
I'm sure this has been asked, but couldn't we just shoot it into space? Lol
This would be an okay idea, if it weren't for the fact that we're talking RIDONCULOUS amounts of toxic waste
Most of the places your thinking of are at the bottom of the ocean. It get into the water before anything else.
They should consider automated turrets. Nothing says âgo away or dieâ like automated turrets.
Haha I immediately thought of that Portal 2 commercial where Cave Johnson is talking about how Aperture turrets fire the whole bullet. Thats 60% more bullet per bullet!
Automated turrets for 300,000 years. That's a lot of bullets that have to be reloaded, plus firing pins wearing our (and gun barrels). Even if your automated turrets didn't use ammunition, like spike traps or something, they're going to be dust in 1000 years. Plus a ton of people are going to say "Hey if they kill people for going there, there must be valuable stuff."
Also the point is not killing people, otherwise we could just fill the turrets with radioactive waste and spray it on people. "Want to know what's down here? Here's a free sample!" At which point, just dump it in the ocean slowly and you'd get a similar distribution effect.
Forget the Atomic Pope. ATOMIC ASSASSINS! Just kill anything that crosses the border of the disposal site from hiding.
@@emmettobrian1874 You could use microwave guns instead of bullet guns
@@Epicmonk117 yeah, that's true. You might even be able to power it with the nuclear waste? Practical Masers are in their infancy right now but that could become more practical with some advancement.
Yall look like an alternate universe Jamie and Adam from Mythbusters.... just saying..
They are The Legend Testers!
They're Legend Testers.
I did a deep dive into the WIPP after reading 100,000 Years of Solitude. The warning I though best conveyed the message showed a person walking up to a drum with a radioactive symbol on it, then walking away from the drum but now the symbol was inside the figure and then it showed the figure on the ground dead. It was very interesting, figuring out if our civilization continues to evolve or if we go back to the dark ages. It was more and more interesting the deeper I dove into it.
One of the best ideas I've heard for dealing with radioactive waste is to just bury as deep as possible, close the tunnel, and let it be forgotten.
Best message, is no message, just set and forget.
My thoughts exactly. Leave a "rosetta stone" under the surface but otherwise, nothing is best. We are naturally curious to our benefit and detriment.
@@MakeItWithCalvin yea put stuff on the containers underground, but to anyone on the surface its just a random spot.
@@user-ii5im7zm2t the surface whouldnt be toxic, by the time the containers whould break the isotopes whould be mostly harmless.
@@user-ii5im7zm2t Okay so yeah you're kinda right on everything here except the "Overpopulation" stuff. If you put the entire human race shoulder to shoulder, Back to front, while standing, you could fit everyone in a landmass a tad larger then Texas. If you're stressing it, Texas and Nevada. Easily.
We're not running out of room, and won't be for thousands of year unless women start popping out litters of 20 babies at a time. The issue we are seeing is that the Earth just feels so much smaller because there's no more landmasses to explore, and this tricks the brain into a false claustrophobia. The only way in which we would actually be running out of room would be if humanity numbered in the Trillions and we were still only on Earth.
Mother Earth still has plenty of room for all her children.
Wolf's Den Iâm not a nuclear physicist or even study nuclear power and radioactivity, but the half life for uranium 238 (most of the waste, considered âstableâ) is around 4 billion years. Half life is how long it takes half the isotopes to âdieâ so it would be on the order of billions of years before the waste would be even remotely considered safe
Put the injury counter at the door.
they will run away
If Jason gets some Atomic Priest robes, they should change colour when they get near radiation like the cats.
The number of comments acknowledging their superb Jamie and Adam cosplay are so few and far between! I'm having a total nostalgia trip just seeing them cuz this channel is really my new Mythbusters!
This is by far one of the most interesting modern rogues yet
If nuclear energy keeps evolving, chances are that "waste" will be spent as fuel for fast molten salt reactors.
Or we will develop a way to launch waste safely into space and drop it into the sun.
Eric Chambers Dropping waste into the sun is insanely hard. Fusion would come far before anyone would try that.
@@ericchambers9023 why would we waste our resources like that?
Loved this episode of just thought provoking convos. Look forward to more!
âPeople in 300,000 years.â
At the rate weâre going, weâll be lucky to make it to a hundred years.
Request: do an episode or two on fountain pens. My hope would be for you to do something with the people at Dromgoole's in Houston, but that's not Austin. You could go through different filling systems, inks, nibs, paper, etc. and have a lot of fun with that. This is a serious request.
Another episode, somewhat related: calligraphy. Maybe have a calligrapher come on and teach the basics of different styles, have a set of nibs/pens to use for that calligraphy, etc.
Maybe you could make it a two-parter or something, I don't know. It's your guys' show, not mine.
Create a sassy robot to keep watch. maybe hand out pamphlets.
...
Sing the hymn of the Baby Shark?
Atomic Priesthood would legit make an amazing HBO series. It takes place 20,000 years in the future, post-apocalyptic, but society is starting to be rebuilt, and there is a brotherhood of priests dedicated to protecting a mysterious site. And they have to convince people not to disturb their sacred lands.
This was really interesting! Honestly, I feel like the idea of the Atomic Priest is the best idea I've heard yet, but I'm definitely going to keep thinking of better ways. This truly was very fascinating to me, thanks for the great content!
Surrounding the area is a "magical barrier". Prior to the barrier are numerous ominous ideographic warnings. (Angry gods / spirits, etc.) When a curious interloper crosses the barrier into the no-man's land prior to the unsafe site, he is wracked with nausea, vomiting, headaches and feels like his skin is on fire.
In reality, he's just crossed into an area covered by anti-riot control measures, machines powered by solar power, tended to and repaired by the atomic priesthood. Classic aversion training.
Admittedly, the hardest part is making sure the machines don't degrade over time. But if the design is kept simple enough, the atomic priests/mechanic/machinists spend their time fixing the machines and reinforcing the taboo of entering "The Dead Lands".
Something like solar cells only last a couple decades and you can't really fix them, you need to make new ones, which require rare materials and capability of precise manufacturing.
All hail the Omnissiah!
@@Sibula As I said, hardest part is degradation. But seeing as this is a thought experiment, you can theoretically DIY a solar cell from copper sheet + cooper sheet with cupric oxide layer as your anodes and cathodes and salt water electrolyte. (Which, given the location you'd have access to plenty of salt.) It wouldn't be as good as commercial cells, but hey... we're talking about the Church of the Atomic Pope here! Apocalypse science! đ
The problem with that is people are curious. They'll want to know why there's a barrier there in the first place, how it works, and what all those machines are protecting.
@@ViviSectia Sure. But after the fifth or sixth time puking their guts up when they get close they might eventually say the hell with it. Never underestimate religious taboo and pain aversion. đ
21st Century: "Danger, radioactive waste, do not approach!"
22nd Century: "Yo playa, this shizzle is bullshizzle, go ahead and get up and yeet yoself on outta here!"
It's amusing you think that "shizzle" will be a thing in the 22nd century even though it hasn't been a thing for like a decade already đ
Honestly, it might be prudent to make the warnings short range to the entrance and as dire as possible, but to also implement a pit trap as the last resort. If a single person finds the warnings and ignores them in order to get closer, they fall into the pit trap and perish without spreading the location as a point of interest for other people. With any luck, you can disguise your entrance within the pit trap well enough that anyone who does find it assumes the warnings are for the pit trap and don't question what's beneath.
I have always liked the idea that you dig a very deap whole bury the waste and forget the hole , and as long as it is deap enough and packed well enough no one will ever touch it . You make technology and history your protection
âI play bass for Atomic Popeâ
How to describe earth in one sentence: Humanity is the only race that will see a big red button that says do not touch and press it to see what happens.
And chimps, gorillas, orangutans, most swine, dolphins and some octopi.
Pretty-much all of the more intelligent species.
@@Ranstone You missed the point and took it a bit too literal, while forgetting about the 'do not touch' part and it being more figurative.
While those species and many, many more and way less intelligent creatures will push a button out of curiosity too, since curiosity is the fuel for exploration that leads to discovery and knowledge, they don't know that they shouldn't, since they can't read and won't push a button, when they know, they shouldn't, i.e. pushing the button will hurt them.
We on the other hand already know we shouldn't and that it'll probably hurt us, since we *can* read, yet we push it anyway.
I hope Brain has a speedy recovery from Covid, it seems like he's doing better on Twitter. Happy it's only a mild case! Love you and your funnt words magic man! â€
This is actually really interesting. I've never thought about this idea before and it's a great discussion piece.
Favourite quote ever from The Modern Rogue âJesus was a pirate!â
Lich Pirate Jesus: coming to Crunchy Roll this fall.
Well, Jason just created the Children of Atom.
It's kind of terrifying to imagine tales and stories of villages being cursed by some poor explorer coming back and melting in his bed from the monolith he found in the desert.
Thanks budget Jamie and Adam, that was good content
The "Atomic Priesthood" sounds like The Nights Watch from Game of Thrones.
Nuclear winter is coming.
@@msclrhd Here, in Mojave, you almost wish it came.
And just like the night's watch, eventually no one would believe in the reason they were put there.
@@RogoueDD Amen.
I hope Brian recovers from Covid.
reading through his twitter, seems like hes pretty much good by now. Just a few mild symptoms now
Almost all people under like 60 or something recover completely and are fine afterwards
Unless you're really old or already really sick or have some serious health concerns you're going to be fine and it won't be much worse than a flu
But... if you were in one of those groups you'd be in big trouble from a flu anyway
I could potentially be in one of the groups but I don't really know. I'm 22 but my immune system may not have completely recovered from when I had brain cancer at age 7. So I'm a maybe for being in one of the groups.
@@Prs722 yea, you might be in that group, be safe
That group is also why everyone has to wear a mask, people like you would have a much higher death rate otherwise. The vaccine will replace the masks when it comes though because vaccines serve the same purpose but do it better
@@ryla22 Plenty of young healthy people have died as well.
And plenty of people who did not die have permanent organ damage.
Don't spread misinformation suggesting it's not dangerous please.
I think it needs to be a two-tiered system. A small, uninteresting warning on the outskirts of the danger zone with some kind of pictographic warning on it. Then if future peeps bypass that warning and start digging away or whatever, you have a big Rosetta Stone-style warning with scary pictures and an Arecibo-message kind of message.
A Canticle for Liebowitz is one of my favorite books ever. There's a used bookstore in Huntsville, Alabama called The Booklegger in reference to ACfL. Cool episode, guys!
I think you got to the crux of this near the end - this all reeks of the Streisand Effect. If you want someone to ignore something, for god's sake, don't make it interesting! As suggested, bury it 4km down in a salt flat, then cover it up with salt, then walk away. The only issue is someone might have already done exactly this in a previous civilisation.... and we might find what they're hiding.
That was very forshadowey... *Oh god October*
The other issue is accidental breaching because people don't know it's there if they go to dig/drill/etc.
If Jason gets to be the Atomic Pope, I wanna be the Atomic Anti-Pope.
Whoever wins out gets thrown in the nuclear tiber inside the waste storage site
This is such an interesting topic
A user on Twitter named @Mochasucculent did a series of art depicting longterm nuclear storage warnings printed on the back of bootie shorts. Things like "Nothing valued is here." "The danger is unleashed only if you substantially disturb this place physically." and "No highly-esteemed deed is commemorated here." For some reason it's a billion times funnier than it should be. đ
When you said that your magician brain was talking, I really thought you were going to start talking about misdirection. Once people start exploring there, have it point somewhere else that has an interesting mystery to it.
But then some people would start going back to the waste in hope of finding more clues then they would die
Wouldnât it be effective to just have a series of sculptures of bodies in various stages of decay? It could be made out if something durable with a long half-life. Maybe plastic?
Not at all. Even if they understand what it's trying to communicate, why would they believe it's true instead of thinking it's art or some ancient mythological beliefs?
Seeing you nerd out about the Arecibo message was great. Yâall should do more speculative stuff. Podcast?
You just described ...
[ Father Vito Cornelius, a Priest of the 50th level Parish and expert in astro physics, is one of a long line of priests who have passed down "the knowledge" of the The Great Evil, the Fifth Element and four stones, and how to destroy evil using them. He is currently training his successor, David. ]
Leeloo!
I think a simple long lasting message to keep people away would be a human skull.
Jolly Rodger.
Look at the Paris catacombs, filled with skulls and people love it down there!
"Must have been a graveyard. Let's dig it up and see if there were any ornate tombs."
The idea of miscommunication through the years brings a thought into my mind... Perhaps at the time when they buried pharaohs in pyramids, there was a leak of toxic gasses or something which ancient egyptians didn't understand so they called it a curse warning people not to go into the pyramid. Now of course this could be to discourage tomb raiders and grave robbers, but just think of it as a possibility. It's an interesting thought and fits with the kinda Idea they are discussing that there is no perfect way to communicate danger to future people.
'somebody set up us the bomb' & the voynich manuscript in the same opening!? love it
"The Atomic Priesthood" sounds like something out of an old Jodorowski comic.
We have a creek in St. Louis where kids used to play that for infected with radioactive waste that has made it so a bunch of people from that area are getting cancer and we can't grow plants for food in the ground in those neighbourhoods. It really is a problem, but there is still a legal battle going on to publicize it.
You were talking about colour changing cats and i litterally as the sentence ended got an ad for cat food. It wasnt a colour changing kitty but was a cute one.
Wow. Just earlier today I was listening to Brian Dunningâs Skeptoid podcast that he touched on this.
4:00 reminds me of a book I read as a kid (Artemis Fowl and the Lost Colony) in which I seem to remember a race of creatures base much of their knowledge of humanity off of a pulp romance novel
I'm just happy to see a Canticle for Leibowitz reference out in the wild like this.
- A very deep pit with curved sides, getting steeper as you approach the middle.
- the walls of the pit are lined with the darkest practical material.
- at the bottom of the pit there is a big bunker with clear paths to the only entrance. (Don't want anyone just digging through the walls)
- the entrance to the bunker is a long spiral corridor.
- the corridor is filled with very heavy doors, that have self closing hinges, the doors open outward.
- the inside of the door should be very hard to get enough leverage to open.
- the doors are being held shut by statues of people dressed in plate armour made of lead.
- there should be spare lead armour lying around and statues at every stage of getting into the armour.
- the armour on the statues of each subsequent door gets thicker.
- towards the end the doors start to become more damaged, eventually leading to completely destroyed doors, and broken statues.
- the path taken to get down there by the workers should be completely filled in.
The pit should create a sense of unease.
The doors would make it much harder to leave than to enter, combined with the statues holding them closed should communicate that this is built to keep something in.
the armour and the statues getting dressed should, communicate an effective defensive measure, provide protective equipment, and instructions on how to put on said equipment.
if whoever finds it knows that radiation can be slowed by lead, then they may work out what exactly is contained.
One of the things that might be effective is employing the look of we want to prevent people from coming in to the point of using war weapons to protect this object but the further you go the more the defenses point to we don't want anything leaving. While also showing that there was alot of activity and travel but it took alot to get to the destination that the amount of travel would be for something serious while leaving pictographs of things like mushroom clouds, power generation, fueling, medicine and mining.
After that it would be pictographs of people getting sick from such things. Ending with images of the facility being built and the material being dumped into the facility.
Jason's ad was such a goofy delight to watch
Brian has the right idea about making it uninteresting, maybe build something around the waste that doesnât seam very appealing and wonât in the far future. Possibly a faux cell tower, something that will always stay standing but isnât overly interesting, just a âlook at that... weirdâ kinda like a Dr. Who tardis.
Jason, I'm really loving that Doug Walker Cosplay
Really the best solution would be writing the warnings in every language together which assuming that at least one of the languages survive, it will serve a double purpose of A warning of the radiation and B giving a platform to learn old forgotten languages, it can also be updated adding new languages to the warning sign to improve the chances of at least one language being remembered.
Murphy with another great movie reference! The Toxic Avenger! đ
I proposed an approach to this problem over a decade ago, and it involves a combination of the atomic priesthood and just trying to ensure that human knowledge was widely available. I called it the Posterity Project, and the aim was not only to preserve knowledge of areas we had made toxic, but to preserve basic human understanding of science and philosophy in a form that could be retained for as long as possible.
I suspect it's an intractable problem, though. Few people seemed to be on board for finding solutions.
But then there's this: people, in general, even if they don't know the precise details of why, will generally be able to work out that certain areas/foods/etc make people sick. We're an innovative species, which is why we're still alive. It's also why we managed to work out 9000 ways to use stale piss to our advantage, way before we managed to understand what ammonia is.
So, even if it's rooted in superstition and misunderstanding of the hows and whys, people will likely avoid the bad places. Our conception of people who understand the world differently to how we do can easily betray a sort of chauvinism, which it definitely did for me. I'd love to have a discussion with you blokes about this stuff, actually. Examining our assumptions about the world is, I feel, at the root of what a modern rogue is supposed to be.
an idea that comes to mind,
put the warning somewhere else nearby to attract people there instead of the actual location so if they do look into it all they find is "don't go to this other location"
though I suppose just mentioning it could make them looking into it
Jason, you had me at Canticle for Leibowitz. lol
This was a super cool video! Hopefully, atomic waste will become less of a problem though - have y'all heard of the nuclear reactors that can use nuclear waste as fuel for more reactions? There are molten salt reactors that can use current nuclear waste, and there are fast-breeder reactors being developed right now whose whole purpose is to create spent fuel which can then be used in other reactors.
I say we put dart traps and lining the halls and a giant boulder trap that activates as soon as someone gets too far into the the radioactive tomb, I think that sends a pretty clear message of do not enter.
Mosquito tones, infrasound tones, and other subtle hazardous design elements. Nothing overt or obvious that would attract attention, but things that create general senses of dread/discomfort/etc that would deter people from casually entering. As time goes on, these effects slowly increase in power and change ratios, preemptively assuming that people could eventually grow accustomed to the current levels and types of discomfort causing deterrents.
I don't really have any solutions to that problem, but I'm game for the Arecibo message episode, but you guys should include the answer to the message.
these are really fun
We don't need always something that go boom, this kind of Videos are cool too.
Cave paintings. But like hyper realistic artistic renditions of what happens when you get near/go inside of this radioactive waste storage.
If you build the containment so that it gets a little leaky before it suffers a cataclysmic failure then any explorers will experience a local-scale event before the global-scale event and the survivor stories (or corpses) will deter future exploration. It also has the effect of signposting the location of the resource if it becomes useful in the crazy-future.
Idea: build a tall threatening concrete wall with only one entrance thatâs alway under surveillance by the atomic priest hood. The threatening wall should psychologically tell people âthere is something in here and you need to stay out.â And for a plus you can write every possible warning on the wall.
My thought is first create a specific entrance to the tomb. Yes it will be mythologized, but that can work to your advantage if done carefully.
Second is to have inscribed the warnings in multiple languages and styles. Perhaps on plaques with the name of the language/style on the top of the plaque. This will create a Rosetta Stone situation, which might help future people know the meanings for the different languages, even if some die out.
Then have several chambers with sturdy seals in place with more specific and accurate warnings as you delve deeper, with the language plaques being in identical places in each chamber.
Have the outermost warnings being basically,
âWarning: Deadly Trash. Radiates Poison. Turn Back.â
And each layer going into more and more detail about the deadly trash. Explaining that the rocks were once a powerful fuel source, but the potential is spent. That using them as fuel made them poisonous to be around and they cause slow, painful deaths with no known cure.
For the final layer of the chamber, I would say go into full theory on using nuclear fuel to create electricity and how the byproduct has no use.
Then, as a final precaution, collapse the final passage past the final sealed door just to make them have to dig. Maybe throw in some cement too.
Or just bury it in the middle of inhospitable wastelands with no warnings or indications anything is even there to be found and if future humans want to dig in the middle of nowhere, then that is on them. They can deal with the consequences of their choices.
I don't known if any one will see this but here it goes. What if you put a large perimeter around the area but not something like a fence to forcibly keep people out, because typically telling someone not to do something makes them want to rebel and do so more. However, have sections of a big chain link fence or someone thing with large gaps ever so often but liter the area with fake ...or real... cadavers, skeletal remains both human and animal so that it is OBVIOUSLY DANGEROUS ... though ... some people would still be idiots and think "oh look creepy place for Halloween parties..
you build circles inside circles that get closer to the center of the radiation at specific points of how long you can stand inside one of the layers and live. But purposefully make the center of it extremely deadly, like less than a minuite. People will not understand the circles at first but when they see people die at different rates in each layer they will understand that something at the center is deadly and it becomes less deadly when you go away from it
(On top of James Huot's idea below.)
salt the surrounding earth if not already so nothing grows and place singing stones near the center of the structure that give off a sound outside of the human range of hearing but make people uneasy/ uncomfortable.
(singing stones are structures designed so that when wind is blowing they play a note. that's one theory of what stone hedge was)
I donât know why but this type of thing really scares me, the thought that everything can changes so completely messes with my head
I think you guys should look at the Great Pyramids of Eygpt and The Freemasons through this same lenses.
So Iâm thinking that youâd need some icons that show a healthy person going towards the zone and then like the same person leaving and them growing like tumors or something and eventually dying. Itâs kind of universal that the effect of radiation is like cancer and growths and stuff, so if you show that person dying from it itâs pretty clear. In my head at least...
Yes, but will the recipient read (or scan) left to right, or left to right? One story says this place will heal the ill or raise the dead.
@@bigchiroal1 good point. Maybe you could have it moving towards the site. Healthy person on the outside, as you get closer then the more tumors and stuff till death