The community turns on Valve - We Say Things 216
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
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"The episode where the community turns on Valve"
Audio: sunsfan.gg/podcast
Support us on Patreon: / wesaythings
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Timestamps:
00:00 Start
05:11 Kickstarter
05:53 7.34e
25:12 Blog post and reaction
45:28 ESL One Kuala Lumpur Qualis
58:25 Roster shuffles
1:03:04 EG dies
1:07:26 OpenAI crazy drama - Hry
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75 minutes and you did not even mention the egregious things Yatoro said about garlic peppery crust pepperoni pizza Hot Pockets?!
The sweetspot for new hero is 2 a year. One just right after TI (to keep the wait for big patch and the void of TI up) and another the other part of the year with a big patch. Imo
I think it's fair to say this patch was disappointing if we are just looking at this patch alone, but I'm hoping for a TI9 treatment. Last years post-TI patch was over double the amount of changes we got in this one, and the year before that had more changes plus a new hero.. But TI9 had a patch size smaller than this one and then followed it up with 9 patches in the next 4 months, including 2 new heroes, a number patch and an event; so hopefully that's what we're about to see happen
Paggo could be a Pool/Billiards theme...the Ulti would be an 8-Ball and Swashbuckler would be Pool Sticks.
I think the biggest issue is them telling "we are not rdy yet, it is coming later". Every time they promised something this year, they were not able to deliver it on time.
10 years anniversary was dragged for a month and a half and then they threw 10 items at ppl. Patch, that could be made right after TI, comes out so much later.
They promised all the cosmetic content after TI - now they say next year.
Dude tou know valve time was never the same as ours
@@bondedomao But they are communicating it. They have not said "We deliver content next year"
They said "After TI".
Maybe you are right, and its the same thing, but im sick of it. It is not the way such a huge company should work.
Thats why they never give dates, look at cs2. They released a beta but had to because they said "this summer"@@alphaomegapepega9341
Great podcast as always!
Guys its so easy centaur Rudolf, cart sleigh, anyone in the cart a santa hat appears. Centaur arcana
The negative feedback isnt about the patch per-se, but rather that it took them this long and an announcement to release a patch that consists of literally like 20 lines. The patch itself is fine, it is just wholly underwhelming with the background of them announcing that they will be SCRAPPING the battle pass in favor of more updates and bigger stuff throughout the year, which obviously has not happened thus far.
The sentiment was already negative once it was announced that it was going to be a letter patch last week. And then it ended up even smaller than most expected.
The thing with the 40-50 people working on Dota is that it doesn't really say how many actual devs working on gameplay and feature updates, some of them might be artists working on cosmetics, and some of them might be team leads overseeing these people and many more other roles.
Jabbz (Team Liquid Coach) cleared the whole thing up under the reddit thread. Spirit, Liquid, GG and another team (I think LGD, making it the top 4 teams?) were invited to Valve HQ DURING FINAL TI WEEKEND. The reason no Dota personell was there was because everyone was in the arena preparing for the final weekend. It was poor translation mixed with ragebait.
very interesting episode
That result is expected, no mikoto to carry 23baggage.
Commenting partial way through and because I’m a biased Invoker player. My hope is that with “more moving parts” of the arcana talk involves Invoker Arcana with having all those new spell FX and animations
43:20 that centaur shit was funny
It's not new Morph ult, that's what Morph ult was in Dota 1
Im glad i wasnt the only one thinking that Muerta's 2nd was broken af. Even before TI
Not skipping those ads to support you guys!
i am missing the timestamps 😢
What if ‘moving parts’ is a clue. Timber and Tinker?
In regards to the OpenAi coup, from what I understand, the board was split into people who believe the acceleration of AI is the way forward and other that want to slow things down, and Sam was more of an accelerator believer, and the deceleration people had their way, and managed to vote him out.
I was thinking they were gonna do the spirit brothers as arcana (plus spirit breaker)
Especially since team spirit won.
Agreed, two new heroes one in the spring and one in the fall would be super hype.
How can you say we will recognize Cty over Iceice, TI6 winner vs Sunsfan's DC?
Sky + Venge arcanas were already confirmed in game files fyi
'This weekedn is your last chance to play the heroes and strategies developed during The International 2023 before we release Gameplay Patch 7.34e on Monday, November 20th' Why did the community expect nerfs on most contested heroes and blademail hot
my problem with the patch is that the nerfs didnt feel impactful at all. every hero feels basically the same. and its taken so long to get even these minor nerfs. i stopped playing dota 2 weeks ago and this patch doesnt make me want to come back
Most of the nerfs to the strongest heroes are definitely impactful. Apart from Wraith King, which is still a pain to deal with, and maybe Centaur, most of the other heroes that were OP aren't very good anymore.
OpenAI is not a for-profit but a capped-profit. Investors can only have a percentage of returns back.
People are upset because
Before TI11:
BP + TI + Patch = "A" work hours
TI11 ("we will focus on gameplay instead of hats"):
TI + Patch = "B" work hours. Obviously less than A work hours and than Patch before TI11 == Path after TI11 (7.34e)
We want A-B=0 but it is not currently and people are sad because it feels like they are paying less and less time into Dota.
The chapters seems to be missing this time
Yeah, i wished they would release a new hero twice a year. A new hero gets old very fast way faster than a year.
is this patch what sunsfan warned us about? Also i hope we DONT get more heroes, i would prefer to make as many heroes viable and good as possible and even 1 hero can ruin all balance
Same tbh
The community are always turning on valve for the most ridiculous reasons. Remember all the 7.34 "boycotts"? The steam forums were practically on fire
nobody cares about steam forums. There is like 5 ppl posting there every week about the fact, that mmr is not real and they are being held back by the bad system. And same 20 ppl are comminting there for 10 pages.
Lambdadelta, voice of the reason
Valve must shut down Dota 2 for a week, give them a real reason to complain.
benis(manscaped reference)
36:39 👍
SPIRIT BROTHERS ARCANA would be sick
Yeah, I hope they make event for it. Just like what they did to PA arcana back then.
Justis for AUI_2000!
Disco Pango arcana go!
i dont understand why bulba is still coaching tbh
I think DP and Sniper need arcana pretty bad
Really? More than 100 heroes and you chose the 2 most boring heroes?
@@parham1023 sniper is the second most picked hero in the history of dota 2, after pudge. And DP was extremely popular in pro-scene before 2018. I dont know when you started playing, but these heroes should have gotten arcanas before void and razor .
I totally forgot sniper exists 😶
The earth produces 60 tons of dust for free yet my team has none
So when was the last content patch dota had? Lmao imagine if this was another live service game. So we missed out on battlepass for a frostivus event that's scheduled for next year? 😂😂😂
wtf, they actually got the sa team name right 😂
Can't wait for Yatoro does it again SyndereN vs Yatoro does it again SyndereN 1v1 mid for the rights to the name.
Ive spend like 600dlls (or like... the double of this) on board games this year be cause dota 2 had no new cosmetics.
They need to add new things to the game, balance patches when you’ve played for 12 years don’t feel like much change.
But most people are still playing despite small changes in 12 years. Add too much and too fast and it's not dota anymore.
two roshan pits, portals, lotuses, bounty, shield, wisdom-runes, tormentar and aghanim shard. whaaaat do you want more?
ay and f**king neutral items
they should take away some things if anything. once they do that, add something new.@@megaflup
@@GianfrancoGalassoBaller players are way down compared to covid numbers , back to pre-covid ones. Which means no new players stuck around after covid, that's bad for any online game.
For myself, I am very upset with the current meta. I really don't like to play the game at all, right now. So, I am looking forward to a bigger patch. However, in general, I don't see the changes that I want coming anytime soon. So, I wasn't surprised.
I entirely disagree with Sunsfan, and Synd is right. Bloat from having extra heroes is huge, new heroes ruins pubs, and balancing the heroes and metas particularly in pubs, is huge. You can really burnout an audience constantly changing things. I’ve really enjoyed when they have done map changes and added new objectives, but what if they slowly released a map change every month? It would be pretty frustrating as your laning changes, objectives change, i play a lot and it would be hard to keep up.
Agreed. Whenever new heroes are added to the game the games, both ranked and unranked, become an absolute mess in the worst of ways.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I am fine with 1 hero a year (assuming of course the hero release are of good quality). Part of what put me off league was that it felt like new champions would sometimes just get spammed out for profit without bothering to make sure they were a good release. When a new one is announced while the previous is still a broken balance nightmare it just feels like a cash grab.
Also I absolutely don't mind how small the patch is because I didn't have any expectations of a letter patch. I thought some heroes (dazzle and primal beast two main ones, but they still got good nerfs) would get a hit a bit harder, but SB and BB were the main ones I was looking to get nerfed, and that happened.
I'm probably in the minority, but I'd be fine without any new heroes at all. I'm more excited for balance patches.
Remove yt ads pls, I'll buy from manscaped
(I am not a game developer) I have to believe that nearly 5 years of multi-hundred million dollar battle passes with 75% of income going to Valve helped fund a large percentage of Valves R&D budget. Everytime I see a new Steam Deck ad, I just think "wow, my arcana's paid for that". The fact they're letting Dota starve out seems like a wild business decision.
As much as Dota's revenue is for Valve, steam and other projects dwarf it. It's a drop in a large puddle for them. Dota was only ever a passion project for people at valve, held up by Gabe's passion for it and others he was able to convince. I think the decline is inevitable, we all just wished it didn't happen this fast.
No, your arcana didn't payed for nothing
Arcanas paid for steam deck development 😂😂😂 what the hell are you smoking
@@bondedomaodefinitely didn't pay for your education either, "payed".
Just as reference for keyboard warriors in CZcams chat that argue because they lack friends or hobbies: Just the 2022 battle pass alone netted Valve an estimate 300m in revenue.
Considering the cost to manage the creation of a battle pass verse the cost of developing a new game, a well adjusted human would think that's a win for a company. Shit, Most developers would give their left nut for a game that generates 300-500m a year that takes 40-50 developers and requires no outward marketing to acquire new customers.
An estimated top line revenue of Valve at 12b in 2022, ~5% of total revenue from a 12 year old product absolutely funds lots of shit at Valve. But alas, I guess the folks here never misspell the word paid or payed, so they must be right 🤡 🤡 🤡
Synderen on some copium this episode. Valve skipped their 10 year anniversary, the battle pass sucked, no events till after the new year, no hats, dota plus shop still sucks, custom game servers constantly are broken, devs need 5 letter patches to balance broken heroes, or medusa/bristle/storm. Iono m8 valve ain’t the same valve it was 5-7 years ago.
Really glad valve skipped all the hats this year for this letter patch 👍
There was no battle pass this year. And no, they didn't skip it all just to get 7.34e lol. I am as disappointed on this patch as the next guy, but still to pretend dota had no substantial patches this year is delussional
Valve paypigs frothing at the mouth as they suffer from blue wallet
ofc we are negative, Valve became lazy mfs that give nothing this year, same past years. They fucked up this year TI, they stop releasing custom game events about 3 years ago, and sryy not past grelvelings or frostivious where uber trash. Thye just gave up on Dota from casual perspective, all the changes that are still made are for that 0,01% players with are pros.
Do you think Dota is getting to a point where to take our drafting/play making to the next level is to incorporate AI into the mix? Just like how computers took chess to another level of learning.
AI is not quite up there to even draft in the esports scene. Even when we eventually get there I don't think they'll allow it because it would take away from drafts, how good a team drafts is part of their skill.
Another podcast that turn on adds every 3 min.. My last watch of *we say things*...
as a i said in the reddit post.... dota frogs are toxic as hell... whether that be in the matches or not... always finding something to be mad about and never be happy
Wow im actually the third comment
wow im actually the first view
NO mention of the massive update Heroes of the Storm got a few days ago. Sad. Dead podcast. /s
I'm just going to casually comment that the names at the beginning and end don't match the names read at the start, and move on ┬┴┬┴┤･ω･)ﾉ
It's funny to me to see all the negativity around the latest patch and announcement. I stopped playing dota around 2020 for almost 3 years, and played lots of Escape From Tarkov, Apex and Fighting games... and boy. I HAD to come back to Dota.
Valve is the only company I have seen that ACTUALLY properly communicates with the playerbase, they admit when they fail and make changes that actually make sense. All the other games I've played just patch after patch it gets worse and the dev teams are all up inside their own bubble doing and announcing stuff NO ONE in the community asks for.
Be glad Dota fans, that Valve cares about their game, they make mistakes sure, but they own up to them and pay attention to the feedback.
Syndren’s overly positive attitude is some massive copium. After such a long wait with no battlepass, no arcana, skipped anniversary, no in game events, no true sight, cancelled dpc etc while promising to “focus on improving gameplay”, then come out with a small letter patch that hardly changed the game. The community was right to be upset and Syn should have called it what it is like Yatoro did at Valve’s office.
Didnt jabbz and other people call out yatoro for that statement being bs?
Don't cry
Wow i actually dont care about my comment
I also don't care about it.
based
Y'all are coping hard af this patch was TERRIBLE
No mention of t1 and faker winning league?
Why would they mention a lesser game? As if it was not a 322 peformance enough by Weibo Gaming Korean Player and Horrible Korean Coach's draft? Weibo Gaming awards literally give the most popular player of the year to Somnus, Esports Player of the Year AME. Team of the Year LGD. Not a single award goes to their own team, even Somnus already told the midlaner of Weibo gaming to be prepare to be 2nd placer since he knows they will lose.