Is Home Theater Getting Out of Hand?
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- čas přidán 30. 11. 2023
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Here’s a topic I’ve been thinking about lately. As I see more home theater discussion, I find less and less is catered toward the “middle ground” of designs and more of that space is being consumed by what I would consider “Uber builds”. It could very well be the algorithms feeding me this high-end HT content so I wanted to throw this topic out there for you all to give your feedback on.
Do you feel like the concept of a dedicated home theater has gotten out of reach for the “common man”? Do you feel like the concept of a dedicated home theater space is less important to you and that a living room setup is more logical for you? Do you hope to attain a SOTA dedicated home theater setup or is something more practical all you really want?
Speaking as someone who go had a dedicated HT space in my previous home, I can tell you that I no longer have that desire and that a living room theater setup makes more sense for me. But that’s me. I really am curious what the community as a whole is trending toward and if the “mid tier home theater” is going by the wayside, in lieu of something else.
I am especially interested in hearing from installers, dealers and manufacturers on this topic. What is your personal experience with your clientele?
I gave your colleagues the boot but I still watch you. You bring more technical expertise than they are capable of and I think you are correct about this. It was fun watching Michael's over the top theater reviews, but the $$$ was pretty outrageous. You on the other hand, give specs so that people can get more value for their money. I think everyone can appreciate that.
Now go spend extra time with your kid(s) including your ex. #divorcesucks
Erin couldn’t agree more I’ve been dealing with the same problem myself. On the flip side can you start reviewing more budget oriented speakers ($500 or less). On your live stream someone asked about the Heco Aurora 300 and you said it doesn’t interest you. Shame. Maybe even throw in some sound bar measurements with the KNFS?
My HT (7.1.4) is in the living room and I think that makes sense for most people. Works out great for streaming the UFC fights and other events with people over. Got a 77" LG OLED and separate amplifiers on the front soundstage. (Just cheap Crown xls1502) The whole system is probably 5-6 grand all day and fills the large room pretty well. I may slowly replace everything with big coaxials like the JTR Noesis 110 HT, but like you said, they're expensive beyond practicality (like many HT products) and it may be wise for me to be happy with the system I have.
I think somebody new to HT would be wise to pick a bookshelf speaker that they like, wait for a good sale, and buy 11 of them.
I suspect your observation is based more on availability bias than reality. Folks with more modest gear are probably less inclined to share their system on a forum, or even more likely, have never even joined a hometheater forum; so what's visible online is naturally skewed heavily toward the higher-end. Based on the proliferation of low cost large TV's, sound bars, projectors (including UST), speakers, and AV receivers, I'd wager reality is the opposite of what you're suggesting to be the trend. But I could be wrong.
And a compelling hometheater experience has never been more affordable.
Edit: There's probably a typical distribution of system cost across the population (including in the mid-range), but what's visible isn't representative.
I've experienced megabuck systems and can still enjoy a well implemented soundbar, so total agreement to not get hung up on price.
I still see a lot of brands in the mid-tier category you described. Granted, almost every brand has increased their pricing about 30% over the past three years. I believe every home theater is worth celebrating, regardless of budget, size or location of the room, the choice of speakers or components.
I think you have forgotten your roots Youthman. The veil of vaseline has covered your eyes. Time to wake up my friend and click those heels. You never left Kansas in the first place.
My HT has been 15 years in the works. I've spent $10k in that time, but the retail of the system is close to $22k. My advice to anyone is to figure out your end goal and be patient.
I´m almost on the same road, I went from an 2009 Yamaha 5.1 AVR with different DIY car stuff I already had thrown together and an active sub.
Then I built my own speakers, all the same size and drivers plus 2 Subwoofers with PR, upgraded my AVR to one with Dirac Live, I got a beamer and a screen.
Next step would be Atmos but it´s a living room and I could only go for a 5.2.2
luckily I always did the research and compared price/quality/needs before I just spent (wasted) money on parts
You're right Erin, even worse, some people aim to have a better home theater than the....theater itself. Sometimes I wonder myself what type of rooms people have that requires so much wattage??? At the end, if you're happy with what you see and what you hear, that's what count.
Man. This conversation hit so hard. Being in training for years, I was only able to piece together stuff that was relatively cheap (by today standard). My entire system cost 1000 dollars and I loved it. Would listen to music for hours with some beers. Then I got married while in training and had to accommodate my spouse. Bought smaller things, cheaper things, and things that are not ideal. And I squandered my interest in stereo systems and moved to headphones, as my lifestyle, did not fit with my spouses. Now I have all the money to blow but almost no interest to pull the trigger on anything, as it would not fit my family. I think that money is an issue definitely. But unfortunately, there are other things too. It is hard to pursue a hobby, when in it’s in direct contrast to what the people around you want. I love ur videos man. Keep up the good work.
Wow, you hit the mark!
I wouldn't have said it out loud or verbalized it, but that's what I feel, not in a bad way. My girlfriend loves me so very much but is a tad bit tired and now disinterested in all of my speakers talk. Sometimes she's like, what are you doing you've been preoccupied for the past hour or two? I'm looking at speaker wire. Are you kidding me you're ignoring me for that after all this time yadaya yada etc.
Ahahha, I know. But yeah, we have to accommodate budget, gear availability, shipping the gear, room space, room acoustics, room logistics, your family and the people you live with, even your neighbor and the environment that you live in.
Yeah, all fun especially when you get your loved ones and friends engaged in your project/hobbies.
Cheers!
- 🐧
The "problem" with a lot of guys who build Home Theaters, is that you dudes simply don't care enough about movies! As somebody who has watched well over 100 movies in my dedicated room this year, I see a lot of these "home theater enthusiasts" spending tens of thousands of dollars on equipment, and then barely using their rooms at all... And when they do, it's usually just to play demos for people they are trying to impress, which makes me sad to think about.
How do you know how much someone spends inside their room?
@@TerminatorJuice please elaborate. How can you determine how much someone is using their room by the brands of equipment they use?
@@jasonsmith7874 Sorry I miss read what you were asking. The answer is pretty simple... I've literally heard multiple guys with high-end rooms say "I haven't used my room in months". I've also heard many home theater enthusiasts utter the phrase " I use that scene to demo, but I've never actually watched the movie". Another telling sign is how little these home theater CZcamsrs actually talk about movies... Shane Lee being the exception.
And ain't that the damn truth brother 🙏
You are right. I love my setup and it did cost multi thousands. However my speakers are 20 years old, subs and amps are second hand, and the receiver and TV bought at deep discount prices. A friend's wife surprised him with a $500 projector and I proceeded to help him setup a space in his basement for his tight budget. Went to garage sales for black cloth. Not truly acoustic transparent but helped with the really cheap sound panels we made with scrap wood and old pillows. A $100 outdoor 150" screen from Amazon. Used speakers, sub, receiver from Craigslist and Facebook marketplace. Less than $1500 all in and he has a nice 5.1 setup with 150" screen for him to stream movies on and watch his basketball games. Every few months he is thanking me for my help as he just had fun showing it off to someone new. That is where the real fun is.
Hey Erin, This applies to so many areas, and I believe it's due to social media and the algorithms that feed what we see. My guess is that there are lots of people that have simple setups that they enjoy but don't post for others to see because of fear of negative comments. And when they do post, they don't get promoted the same way big dollar setups do. Many of the hobbies I have seem to have gone down that road. Even sites like DIYMA that was focused on bang for your buck has turned into a lot of high end, super expensive gear. There's nothing wrong with those that can afford to and want to spend that kind of money, but for those just getting into Audio/Video, it can be discouraging to see moderate/entry level setups be dismissed and only the highest end stuff is shown.
I, personally, have a home theater for my enjoyment of watching films. I enjoy discussing the hobby with others but I see no reason to post my individual set up. I don't understand that, unless it is to ask advice about a specific thing. At the end of the day it's for me to watch films on ...
Amen - most of the top promoted CZcams HT content seems to be produced by a) dealers/custom installers, who have a vested interest in normalizing megabucks systems and FOMO, b) obsequiously wealthy men who don't need to work a normal 9-5 and want to show off their expensive toys, and c) trade journalists who receive the gear for free. I enjoy lusting at those systems as much as the next guy, but this video was a much needed reality check for this content space. I would personally enjoy if Erin produced a "sensible" HT build series.
Totally totally agree. I recently mentioned exactly this on several of their channels. I have been into the home theater hobby for many many years. It’s awesome but It is just a giant rabbit hole. Always chasing perfection. I realized the diminishing returns on bettering the equipment. I went from Dolby Watmos? back to 5.1 and couldn’t be any happier. Median household income is not even 75,000 these days who are we kidding.
Costco is your friend! Start with their Klipsch 5.1 kit and start growing from there (of course first upgrade is getting an 18” Monolith THX subwoofer)
This was a great topic. You are absolutely correct! You've arrived at whatever sounds good to you. Your budget is your budget not someone else's budget.
Amen, we are in the Golden age of audio, you can get so much performance with so little money these days. What would cost $10,000 a decade ago you can get equal performance at the $2,000 mark
That's not true in my opinion... really good speakers and really good amplifiers are even more expensive than 30 years ago. Electronics are cheap, yes, but speakers and amps are 90% of a system and they are expensive if you want quality.
@@net_news ok, let's look at this. What was the best about $10000 speaker from 2013 that we have reliable objective measurements for? I'll then pick a modern day about $2000 to compare it to.
@@paulgyro good speakers were expensive in the 80s and are expensive now I can assure you that.
Choose any top brand you like, B&W, TAD, Revel, whatever and compare 80s or 90s prices with today prices and you'll see... good stuff is top dollar.
OTOH electronics are cheaper in general, yes, I agree with that but if you want high quality you have to spend a lot of money too.
In fact, I think nowadays audio and ht stuff are more an elite thing than years ago... in the 80s every family had a hi-fi system and prices were more popular.
@@paulgyroGenelec 8260A was released in 2010 and cost somewhere around $4000 per monitor.
@@reallyeffingcooltechnodude yah they are awesome and in ballpark. I saw them listed at $11k pair in 2011. Now to find measurements for them...
Really encouraging! I've just started and had thought about a dedicated space, but realize we would not use it as often as I would think we would. I've started enhancing the space we do normal life in and is it the top of the line dedicated space, no; but IT IS used and very much enjoyed daily. I think of this hobby the same as car building. You don't start with a really tuned car, you build up to that. The important part is that you start.
Putting together a simple, great performing, theater setup has never been easier or more affordable. Entry level audio and video equipment performs better than ever and the threshold for diminishing returns comes very quickly. It took me a long time to stop allowing FOMO to impair the enjoyment of my gear. I have learned at least 70% of performance is proper setup and room treatment. Invest in that and you can put pretty basic equipment in and have a great experience.
Great video, I started as a teenager with fixing broken speakers just to have some type of audio system and now at 47, I finally have a small dedicated HT. We all got to start somewhere and I will say I have enjoyed all of the journey regardless of price point.
I think you’re spot on. We are in the age of social media and of tech influencers that bombard us with “content” about gear that really is cool, but that most people can’t afford (or can’t justify the cost). And, we are left in a place where we never feel content with what we have, or feel like we can never be happy without this new “shiny, blinky light, thing”. As a hobby, it’s fun to play around and try and eek out that last bit of performance from our gear, but we must always try and balance that with not forgetting to enjoy what we have. It’s okay to dream, I (like many others here) have spent years piecing together a really nice system that I enjoy now, but I’m miles from where I started as a teen in the 90s. Enjoy the journey, but don’t forget to appreciate where you are now. Great video!
Man I've spread my build out nearly half my life. Started when I was 19. My system is still considered "budget", but I don't care. I have a dedicated space and it sounds incredible. And a lot of my stuff is "frankensteined". This is how I've done it the whole time. Upgrade where I can. Find deals. Tweak along the way. And now when I play chapter 2 of Ready Player One, I'm there. On the track. In the Oasis. The family loves it. It's a special treat to watch in that space. We make it an event. No shoes allowed.
This topic is why I find the end of the year best of videos so valuable because I can follow you throughout the year but someone new could never go through all your videos so they would need such a video to weigh options.
Great video! I am glad you mentioned DIY solutions. That is a great place to start and can give you the most bang for the buck.
I had a dedicated home theater and we never used it in my opinion, spend the most amount of money on your subwoofer
In my theater all the time. Late at night after the days' work is done.
I have several friend with dedicated HT rooms completed with loungers at different levels. What I heard is that they really aren’t used that much. I have a TV room in my “man cave (basement).” There is a very large TV (98”) because TVs that size have dramatically come down in price in the last couple of years. The sound portion was built up over 3-4 years. Started with a soundbar and sub. Then added a second sub. Later on the rear channel surrounds were added. Finally, I added front speakers. I’m quite happy with the final result and because it is the main TV room, the cave gets used all the time.
My point is that it doesn’t have to be done all at once. Get the main building blocks and just build on it. My system ended up costing around $8,000, but this system was built over 3-4 years. At the end of the day, you may find some of your friends with HT rooms admiring your setup because the sound is better implemented. That has happened with one of my friends.
It’s not that you can’t afford what you want in some cases, it’s just that you can’t afford it all at once.
Great video and spot on on so many levels. The HT On A Budget seems to have been forgotten in this day and age. Its all about the high end and nothing else exists. Alot of CZcamsrs who do reviews ect have helped create this mess because they get free stuff, get a cut of the sale because they promote the buisness thats selling the high end items and they get sponsors. Buy what you want and what you can afford and enjoy the hell out of it. May not be high end to some and thats ok as long as YOU enjoy it. Thats all that matters.
This is very encouraging. Thanks for sharing this, Erin!
I've been an avid home theater enthusiast for years and was getting close to finally upgrading based on some of your recommendations. Then, of course, life happens. I'm experiencing a pay reduction at work. With a wife and a one-year-old, I've put the brakes on upgrading and will be appreciating what I have for now.
Something must be said about not being caught up chasing and wanting the best thing.
After using my stereo (2 speakers) throu the 90's I got my first home theater receiver around 2001. My 5.1 ch setup started with an Onkyo DS777 that I bought on sale from Circuit City and a pair of Cerwin Vega E715 dorm rockers that I already owned. Attempting to complete my system I proceeded to blow up at least a dozen sets of small surround & center channel speakers. I couldn't tell you the names of most but they were the cheapest of the cheap that I found at multiple different big box discount stores before finally scoring a set of Klipsch SS-3 & SC-3 surround/center speakers on clearance at best buy. Oh, and in the middle of all that I found a Polk subwoofer on sale at ABC Warehouse. It was a mismatched hot mess, but it was loud, and I was proud!
By far your best video ever!! 👏
Another point you were close to was that expensive vs mid vs budget. The separation of the lot is not as large as the asking price 😊
Hope you do more like this to boost those who think that this hobby is too unrealistic 🎉
I/We Needed This Video!!!!! It's Crazy @ Times And You Don't Know Rather If Your Home Theater Set Up Is Even Considerable??? Needed To Hear This For All!
Great video. Building off of this topic is the process I am going through of the mult-year home theater build. I currently have a 2 channel system in the living room. Over the course of what may be years - I will be adding a sub, additional speakers, the equipment, and more. This is not something that will happen overnight - I’ve had the same 2 channel system for 2 years now. However, one day my system will progress to whatever its final form may be - no matter how long it takes.
I just ignore trying to keep up with the next guy. Living in a vacuum, I am very, very happy with my mid-range setup. My first setup was in the 90s and I had 5.1 setup with little Cerwin Vega surround speakers and Sansui home stereo speakers from the early 80s for the front channels. Right now I have a Yamaha A6A, Klipsch speakers in 7.1.2 and a 65" OLED. My latest upgrade was to a SVS 16 Ultra Sub. I just kept adding more speakers and every time I them it was so much fun. Going from 5.1 to 7.1 and then to Atmos.
The reason I set my home theater like a lounge as opposed to decated one
Home theater is like cars. There are cheap, middle range, expensive and super cars. All have 4 wheels and all take you from destination a to destination b. Which car you want to buy depends on budget and taste. Same as home theater. Buy what you can afford and enjoy what you have. There are so many issues happening right now in the world that this isn't even something to worry over. Buy what your budget suits and enjoy every minute of it 👍
First off Great VID! Man I have been in the hobby of home theater and music since I was in my early teens (I'm 39 now). And For most of that time I've had a simple 2 channel amp like an Awia little 50 watt x2 wayy back in the day and two tower speakers. Rocked that for years, then I moved up a little and got a Pyle pre amp and still just had two speakers. And I didn't really care about making it bigger or more expensive. Now that I am older and have been working all these years I finally turned my attention back to my system. And for the last SEVERAL years I have been adding and tinkering with it. I have 2 mains, a center, 2 surrounds 2, subs,. I have an AVR as a signal processor and two power amps. It would be at best Mid tier. Again took me years to get here. All the speakers are Cerwin-Vega except the subs which are SVS PB 3000s. I think it sounds amazing, best I have ever had. Does it compare with some of the MEGA systems people have out there? Probably not even close. Do I care? No. I took years to put this system together and I'm proud of that!
With this hobby, I found it best to just collect gear over the years. Start with a 3 channel set up and keep building off of it.
Thanks. I needed someone to say that loud 😊
I agree with your comments 100%. I have a hard time finding videos on my mid level HT setup. So many are in the $50k and up. Would be great to find the $10k systems.
You nailed it. Our hobby has certainly changed in recent years, especially when it comes to subwoofers, and multichannel equipment that scales past 11 channels. It really should be all about setting goals, solving for one’s specific use case, celebrating milestones and enjoying the very personal journey.
I love this video and all your videos for that matter but especially this. I started around the same time with a barely $500 for a home theater in a box and I’m at nearly a $450,000 system and build. I can tell you you are absolutely correct and I wish Moore more people would get into this hobby even with lesser less expensive budget. I also agree that we spend more time down in the basement and going up to the theater even though it is incredible when we do that once in. Keep up the awesome work.
I’m in the process of creating the home cinema/ theater room in my basement. The room is 25 feet by 42 feet with 8 foot ceiling. Biggest problem is center beam pole supports. This has limited my room to 12 feet wide. I’m going with a 16:9 ratio 120 inch screen in white because I can control the lighting and with a “ ultra short throw projector “ I can place the projector 20 inches from the screen 😀. By putting theater seats in the room it can be a row of four seats with twenty inches of pathway on each side of the room. With two risers at nine inches in height for the first and eighteen inches for the second… it will be a twelve seat theater in a room that is 12 by 25. I bought my projector on sale for $1300 normally $2000. This type of projector is a Epson EpicVision Ultra Ls300 laser short throw projector 3000 lumens. You don’t really need a large room to get a huge 120 inch screen anymore with this type of projector. You just need the proper distance for comfortable viewing of it.👍🏻
This is so true in the backyard pyromusical world too! Helped a guy develop some equipment to automate displays with cheap firing systems. The next cheapest option would be $4000+ just for the controller and modules, in addition to $3-5K for product, all for 15-20 minutes of show. A $3000 wholesale order can balloon into a $15k display when you factor in mortar racks, squib, e match, etc.
It can be somewhat depressing
Depends on one's situation and wants. Setting up a dedicated room for movies and music with care taken for proper acoustics, simply a terrific enjoyment. To put it best, when an old friend dropped by i played some music and ran some scenes in my dedicated HT-Music Room. His response, "if i had a room like this i would never leave the house". 🥰
I started with 300$ Kanto speaker and a 42 inch tv that was given to me by my mother cause she changed her tv. Before that I had a 32inch tv ( talking 2015 here) and the kanto speaker i bought them in 2010 probably. then upgraded slowly through the years. Got a refurbshed Denon X1600 for 800$ and purchased a Jamo 5.1 system for 500$ (all Canadian dollars) and a 600$ tv i got on black friday because my tv broke.
I'm no where near what other may have, but i'm happy with my current system. LCR : DIY'ed Criton 1TD and 2TD, same old Jamo 10in subwoofer (but currently DIY'ing/ building 2: 15inch subwoofer with dayton UM15 driver). and have paradigm ADP-190 for surrounds that I got secondhand.
'dedicating' a room to any single purpose is already a significant investment
This was a very interesting subject and I understand this from a different perspective. I live in Barbados and we pay on average 4 times or more the price you guys pay for equipment. So when I compare the cost of my system to what I could've had if I payed the same price as you would... That depresses me to some extent.
While I do enjoy looking at the amazing dedicated home cinema spaces, but I actually like looking at the living room cinemas even more. These spaces are the norm for the most of us. I really enjoy my living room home cinema space, but I also like the fact when I’m not watching movies it’s still looks like a living room.
Comparing in general is a complete waste of time !!! Most of the people who have loads of nice things dont have the time to enjoy them !
I don't want a dedicated theater room, i want to watch movies in my living room and search for info tailored to that
I'm just getting ready to start my first build. I'll be very much on the low end of the budget. Just from reading the forums on reddit I know better than to ask certain questions (save up and get 2 hugely expensive subs, all 3 front speakers should be the same for timber matching, etc.). I could honestly fill my theater with lower end Monoprice in wall speakers and be perfectly happy. The more I read the more I think that I should spend more or I won't be happy. It's kind of a huge pain in the butt
Great video. I have three systems. All of them have taken ten years to get to where they are now, and even at that they’re not exotic. With a family to look after my hifi budget is not a lot. What I did (and still do) is make lists of components that I want, and I wait. Being patient has snagged me a pair of Celestion Ditton 551 for $100, and a Sansui AU-555A for $400. Then I do the work to restore them and end up with wonderful gear.
Anyone with tons of $ can write the check. To me, that’s not much of a hobby. It’s much more fun for me to be on the hunt for the next find.
Great video and acknowledge the pricing of components can get pretty ridiculous. I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to build another dedicated home theater as we build our new house. However, have second guessed myself several times due to the expense as am one you described that is doing Trinnov, MadVR Envy Extreme, JVC NZ9 / anamorphic lens, etc. Is all because I wanted a little larger home theater than our last. That "little" larger aspect has caused the cost to balloon when you factor the gear required to produce a bright image for the throw, acoustic treatments, etc.
We have now spent the past 6 months in a rental with only the Sonos Arc + single sub after selling our last house with a fantastic dedicated theater. The small soundbar setup provides great sound. While I know I will be absolutely thrilled with the new theater once complete, I can't help but question "how much have I gone overboard and what will it cost me in the long run?"
Agreed. A lot of CZcams videos/content is about crazy expensive gear and setups. They are all awesome and love to see it but it can be a little deflating when you start comparing and adding it up. MadVR Envy, Lumagen RP, Kscape, Trinnov, JVC NZ, Valencia seating, crazy subs, $$$$$$$$$, etc. However at the end of the day I just love the hobby!
Hi just watched this video it is a reminder that you do not need to overspend on any hobby these days particulary Living in my second home a townhouse spare room spent about $1600 on a pull down screen and Optoma Projector rest is a second hand AV amp, Old full way speakers and Blu ray player. good enough for me. Seen Over spending in my other hobby as a Ham Radio Operator Regards Trevor
I agree, have my hometheatre in my livingroom and it's not big so why spend a lot of money on high end speakers. I have a 5.1.4 combination with speakers of Dali Oberon & SVS, works perfect for me.
Andrew Robinson consistently puts out stuff showing how to join the hobby on a budget
The voice of reason--Thanks.
Great video! I sold my surroundsound and go for a good two chanel... Really think you come a long way with a good twoway instaed of a cheaper surroundsound.
Preach Erin. You right you right.
There are many mid priced options for a great experience. 77 or 83 inch OLEDs for example, Anthem avrs. Roger’s Sound Lab or definitive tech speakers. I have a 5.1.2 system with an 83 inch screen in a 10 x 14 room. Absolutely incredible results.
I get more satisfaction now from the DIY side. From building my own X-LS Encore speakers to building my own cables. A name tag on a piece of equipment does not mean better. I would put my Encore's up against a lot of high dollar speakers.
Over the years my home theater system has evolved and improved. Although the Mega setups are indeed awesome, they're certainly not what I aspire to or even remotely would personally be interested in having. On another thought, I know you went through a "rough patch" and you were "absent". I hope you're mostly out the other side and I'm glad you're back...
Today I'm hooking my mom up with a 5.1 HT system. $250 Sony avr, 1 Monolith coaxial leftover from my bedroom system, 4 Klipsch surrounds that I upgraded a while back, and a little Monolith sub that I'm pulling out of my bedroom system (which had 2 but I don't think I need 2 in there). Early Christmas present. Just piled everything up by the door and about to head over. *Anyway point is it doesn't have to be expensive to upgrade from a soundbar
Home theater is definitly out of hand, especially now since there are so few GOOD movies being produced - in my humble opinion. Prices for home theater are way crazy too!
That’s a really good point. With all of the options we have available to us, I personally only find that I’m interested in very few options. And if I invested in a Home theater to only watch a couple movies a month, I think I would be pretty Aggravated. Actually, I know I would because that’s exactly what I did before. 😂
My biggest problem is overengineered products thus costing over priced.
Look at the thx dominus rating for example. Recommended for 6500 cubic feet and viewing distance of 19 feet.
Just to put that in perspective, 19 ft away , using the same thx standard for 40 degree field of view, is a 200 inch screen. That is probably 0.0000001% of the people in this hobby. And the people that actually need that aren't even in this hobby. They are multi millionaires who call up audio advice to come custom install that gear in their mansion.
On avs forum, most enthusiasts are even rooms rates for 2000 to 3000 cubic feet at max.
We don't need $$10,000 thx dominus speakers, we don't need trinnov processors, we don't need sinad numbers on amplifiers that no one will hear anyways.
Manufacturers are out here scamming consumers by selling seriously over engineered products for profit.
People gotta self educate on what they truly need and spend based on that.
I worked for an AV Integrator doing installs and and sales and one of the first projects I did we went into a smaller home theater and the homeowner had a Sim2 projector. I thought I knew quite a bit about AV gear and was confused as to what Sim2 was. At the time it was an insanely expensive projector and top notch 720p! Then shortly after Sony and BenQ had some amazing 1080p projectors for way cheaper. Sadly the AV industry has always been promoted as unubtanium for almost everyone, especially the ones who are passionate about it.
Its a wNk, had it, hardly used it, was a waste of space. Now just have a big open room, big screen, soundbar, stereo and wonder now what i was thinking.
My setup consists of a denon 2400h that i got used for 300€, and then i found this german company called reckhorn that does very nieshe coaxial, spherical speakers for very affordable prices, all in all my 7.0.2 setup cost less than 1000€, including diy room Treatment and cables. And all this without a dedicated space, its still a nice looking living room, and the spouse really enjoys it.
I actually had much more expensive speakers before, but i sold them all, i realizer that i was just throwing money at the problem, hoping for better sound, but the only thing that really made a difference is knowlage, learning about placement, room treatment and calibration gets you so much better sound than just buying different gear.. and its free!
some people like to spend a shit-ton of dough to watch a never ending stream of comic book content from hollywood -
Doing a lot for a lot less has always been one of my joys in this hobby. I could write bigger checks but don't. Set a goal, don't buy junk, be patient and wait for the right purchases to come along. Take baby steps that all head towards the whole.
I was going to build a dedicated home theater, but changed my mind cause i would not get much use being a separate room. Instead I put a 5.2.4 in the main living and it was the best decision ever. I and the rest of the family get alot of use out of it making the money spent worthwhile.
No point spending all that money and use it now and then...
A few things to point out. This is the social media generation and people just look at what someone else has, and not how they got there. That over the top system might be the result of 10-15yrs of continuous upgrades. They likely didn't just run out to the local a/v store and buy all of that in one shot. Also another downfall of the social media generation is constant comparison. I have learned to prioritize my upgrades based on my ears and what I like. Everytime I've upgraded because someone else said thats what you are supposed to have, I have regretted it. Mostly because it simply didn't bring enough joy to make it worth the cost. Thanks for all you do Erin, educating people will help them reach their a/v goals!
Comparison is the thief of joy. Enjoy what you have and don’t stress about what others have.
Erin, it is easier to gather some good semi vintage speakers and power amps. If you have help and means you can also buy them broken and fix it. Add 2 15-inch subs, and you have a killer system. I got my 6 height speakers for 60$ .. wow! Add a decent AVR to the mix, and you haven't even spent 4k$ and you have a killer system.
Good video! If one can afford an expensive system great for them. I think the point of diminishing returns in HT has gone down over the last 5-7 years. You can get an excellent speaker for $500-$750. Regarding your point about some of these crazy systems, some reviewers are not transparent about how they acquired their gear. Some do pay for their stuff outright, but some get steep discounts or have arranged for a long term demo and play it off as their own. It creates good videos, but the perception one can’t enjoy a movie unless you have XYZ. Is one into home theater/music or just the gear?
I bought a lot of used and refurbed…great way to save big $$$.
I just have floorstanders and a subwoofer in my living room. Boom, home theater.
This is a great and well needed video. Everyone starts somewhere. I sure did - and any true audiophile thats been doing this for some time will probably tell you the same.
Have reasonable expectations based on your living environment, income, and I have friends that have killer amps and KEF Reference speakers / but hes in a different place than me, and I get that.
Id love to have a living room home thester.
However my living room is horrible to the point i am forced to use my bedroom for optimal audio and it also gets me significantly closer to the screen for more immersion.
I am now getting a dedicated theater build and ill be in there daily!
A dedicated room is nice but you will enjoy HT a lot more if it is in the space you regularly inhabit and enjoy most in your house. That is typically a "great room", where you typically won't be able to iron everything down flat...dot all the "I"s and cross all the "T"s. It's a compromise...but it's a better return on what is often a significant investment in time, sweat and money.
If I'm going to spend copious amounts of money on something, I'm sure as hell going to use it as much as possible. I would never want it as a virtual paper tiger.
Totally get where you are coming from. I have a 7.1 contractor grade (it was one of the build options) in ceiling only setup in my living room downstairs. Denon 1700 powering super cheap Acoustic Audio CSIC84 speakers. Those 7 speakers are like $200. The subwoofer down there is a monoprice SW12, which is $230. The whole living room setup is less than $1000 and it gets more use overall by the family, even though we have a dedicated home theater room with a 9.2.6 with a Sony 5000es, AVM70 and Paradigm speakers and subs. Same boat. I watch quite a bit up there, but its a process and the living room TV is always going on with something. The living room setup is enjoyable. Probably measures like poop but it works. Its not slamming anyone's chest but its clean. I think there is that sort of Instagram worthy chase with setups, and that is a part of current culture too.
In any home’s that I’ve been in, I haven’t seen one home theater system (budget, middle ground, or extreme). I’m wondering if home theater is slowly dying out.
It got out of hand years ago. I get that it's a hobby and some folks like gadgets and constantly fiddling with their systems, but at the end of the day you're still staring at a flat screen--and 3D TV cratered hard. I've found that for my uses 2.1 and 3.1 systems give me what I want without excessive clutter, expense, or deep dives into diminishing returns. The constant moving goalposts of standards is something else I can do without.
I agree, but I think that it tends to show you more expensive stuff because people like to see them even if they can never afford it. I have fully maybe 10K in my current system, and yes I have a few items I still want to do such as going from 5.2.3 to 7.4.4 I am in no rush. This isn't really the house to do it in, but I am really happy with my current mid-range SVS speakers (pinnacles, elevations, satellites, prime center) and Monolith 12 subs... and I love how my kids friends and my friends react to it when I sometimes think its not where I want and realize most are watching movies/music on far less.
Emotiva processor and amplifiers, Monolith HTP 1 processor, OSD Nero multichannel amplifiers, Tonewinner products will provide all the magic of dedicated home theater @ costs we all can afford. Learn REW and a laptop. No company can touch these products. Throw in a Eversolo DMP A6 for the audio. Get a 98" TCL or 100" Hisense.
Maybe not at this moment because it is all sold out @ Christmas but real soon. No reason to have home theater envy.
The most important thing you can do right now is buy every on sale physical media of Blu-ray UltraHD before these big box monster goes into winter mode. If you bought every 4k physical media disc and player @ a total of $3 - 4k you would still be ahead of most Kaeldiascape owner. Not knocking these products.
Better yet if you rip all your physical media (not steal it) and play it back on a dedicated HTPC with open source version of madVR and output directly to a projector or large format TV you will be approximating 99% of the magic of the retail madVR Envy.
When you know what you're doing, like you do, I'm sure you could get much better than "budget" sound with a relatively modest budget.
Honestly I shake my head at a lot of this crazy expensive stuff.
I put maybe $2-3k into my home theater audio and I think it sounds better than the theater! (Ok, maybe not the subs.😂)
It's funny in a way to me. I started out working on a cool surround sound/ theater experience but over time my tastes shifted and I got rid of all of it and concentrated all my efforts on a dedicated 2 channel system strictly for music. I am still there maybe some day home theater will interest me again? Cheers.
Add me to the list! I am super defeated at the moment: pulled the trigger on a Denon 3800, Klipsch's new subwoofer RP1200SW, and great lineup of speakers: RP600M for L/R, RP504C II, RP160M for rears, and a pair of RP500SA to experiment with as heights/surrounds, etc. Even had two CDT-5800-C II in ceilings but at the end of the day I'm returning it all. Total value was right around $8K and only spent around $3,700 which I know was a killer deal... but it just didn't blow me away like I expected... Crap! Would love to continue the journey just at a crossroads at the moment... for context, we have the 5.1 system from Roku built around their Streambar Pro. I "hacked" into the subwoofer and hooked up a mini-amp with some transducers to simulate decent bass. Call me crazy, but I'd much rather stick with my $700 setup for the moment than splurge on some crazy gear. However, I am stuck at 5.1 as there is no way to implement Atmos. Another great thing about my setup is it's so easy to use my kids can handle it without me. To each his own!
I'd love to have a dedicated room. But its not in the cards for me. I don't pay to much attention to social media. I just try to live with in my means, research, and go for what I feel are value purchases. What "budget" line of speakers would you choose to build a home theater around? With all your knowledge/reviews I'm curious about what your favorite value/budget speaker line is.
Another great video again .
If we're talking _crazy_ HT, let's remember that this involves $200k+ for a 120" microled screen, so a tenth of that for Kaleidescape and Trinnov is barely noticeable. Personally, I spent £200 a few years ago on the cheapest Yamaha AV amp and it sounds perfectly fine to me ;).
definitely see all that crazy stuff, but i just know that in my small 10x12 room it doesn't take that much!
This is a great video Erin. A lot of common sense as usual. Quick question for you. Do you have any idea how and where I could get to see a frequency response graph for a pair of Triangle Borea BR07 towers? I own a pair and really like them for the size of the room they are playing in, but I would really like to fine tune them with eq. A graph would at least give me a clue on where to start. I emailed Triangle and asked them for one, but they said that they do not give out that type of info on current model speakers. I can't find any real technical info on the BR07s. What to do? Thanks
If the manufacturer won’t give it to you, then the best you could hope for is an individual reviewer or owner. I don’t believe I’ve seen them measured anywhere, so you may just be out of luck, unfortunately.
Erin, this is such an important topic for a video, thank you for making it. I'm not a content creator but I've seriously thought about doing a video to say pretty much the exact same things you've said here. Kudo's for making the effort!
Agreed, I follow so many HT guys on most of the social media platforms. I've been building my system for the last five years. Right now, I need a pre-pro and a TV. Hopefully by mid 2024, I'll have everything I need. Then just like you said, I'll sit back and enjoy. The boss (wife) thinks I'm crazy, I just should get a soundbar and forget it, but when everything is set, there's no doubt she'll enjoy it more than me
Yeah I got a nice klipsch system but it's definitely the lower end of those speakers. I've always wanted to upgrade but there's just absolutely no way I can because everything costs so goddamn much.
Your sentiments about home theater seem spot on from what I see/read as well. Frustrating really.
Thankfully as far as stereo listening i feel it's gone the other direction. There seems to be little system shaming anymore and widespread praise for cheap, well performing audio gear.
The journey is the most fun part part for me, and big price tags don't excite me. I recently transitioned to an apartment and am having a ton of fun trying to build a low buck system and experimenting with preventing sound transmission.
For context, my previous system (which I still have) was probably on the order of $15k but it's harder to quantify because I design and manufacture my own speakers. The apartment setup is probably around $2-3k.
Currently finishing "subs" that probably cost me $250 in materials for 3 of them, yet perform really well. They are getting paired with bass shakers to save the neighbors from the 4 15s in the other setup. If I had spent a lot more, I probably wouldn't be playing with bass shakers and accelerometers now . . . Why miss out on that knowledge?
With how available dsp is, and being mindful of the fundamentals, there is a tremendous amount of value out there these days.
Covid drove HT through the roof. Its a bubble and still hasnt come down yet lol
I think you accidentally walked into an economic question, as opposed to a speaker/home theatre question. You are seeing the erosion of the middle class and middle class type products. So you either get low end budget, or higher end. It's happening in all sorts of consumer products. Here's a weird example. Old navy, gap, banana replublic. Old navy and banana republic both got more popular(budget and the high end) but gap is dying off(midrange.) It's a real thing thats happening. Covid really sped this up.
The mix of high/mid/low in home theater has changed in the same way the mix of the economy has changed. We need a more fair pay and tax system that gives the low/mid at least a chance.
These folks that don’t watch programming in their HT’s aren’t cinephiles they’re video/audio enthusiasts. I’ve been a cinephile since before I had a home theater. I had a 19inch tv and a VCR. Once I entered the workforce and started making money I graduated to laserdisc and began building my HT almost piece by piece. Now I have a Dolby Atmos 5.2.2 system. My main speakers are legacy, so didn’t have to pay out the nose for new ones. Folks have their priorities and budgets, but to get into the HT hobby and not use it is strange. Start watching some movies! 🎥🎬📽️🎞️
My 55" flat screen, a cheap blue ray dvd player, and a $150 soundbar is all I'll ever want. The rest of my disposable income goes toward music playback.