Plato's dialogue, the Republic, book 1 - Introduction to Philosophy
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In this lecture from my Fall 2011 Introduction to Philosophy class at Marist College, we discuss Plato's Republic bk 1, specifically the rival conceptions of justice, the character of Thrasymachus, and Socrates arguments against Thrasymachus' position
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#philosophy #introduction #plato
I have been watching your lectures throughout the last few months. I'll be leaving the Marine Corps in a few months. The last few years I have served, have been dedicated to reading and gaining knowledge. I sit at my desk and takes notes from you, at least every other day if not every day. I owe many thanks to you, for preparing me in going back to the college classroom. Your lectures and knowledge have influenced me in a great deal. Thank you.
You're very welcome!
I've got to say that I'm always particularly glad to hear from active duty or veteran students. Good luck with your coming college studies!
Yep. I've been reading it now more than half my life, and keep finding more and more each time I read it through again. Even more when I prep to teach it, and then discuss it with students
thanks for the videos. they've rekindled the zeal i once had of studying philosophy but got busy with other things. I started reading the Republic today and have had to put it down several times and think through things. your videos definitely help out with understanding some things. thanks!
Hi Greg, I have always been interested in philosophy and your interaction has improved my interest immensely. Thanks so much for the videos. Thank you also for your Military service. I did 22 years in the Royal Australian Navy. Cheers from Oz.
Appreciate the video! I'm not taking any philosophy courses at my University, but love the subject and Greek history in general. This gives me something to follow along with and draw inferences from as I read the Republic. Cool stuff
Well, I'm glad the videos are helpful -- the key thing is to learn and understand the material
I'm glad you enjoy them!
Thank you for posting all of these videos on Plato's works. They are very helpful!
Glad to read it -- you're welcome!
My teacher is currently doing an awful job at teaching about the Republic. You have saved me right in time for my essay! You are very eloquent and interesting to listen to.
I really enjoyed this. I might be out of school now but man,
your classes are very interesting. Very involved, good job.
I'm studying at LSE in England and doing Political theory as part of my degree and this helped a lot, you are a great lecturer, thank you!
I'm sorry to hear that your teacher isn't doing the job that Plato's work -- and his or her students -- deserve. But, I'm glad that these videos are helpful!
Wow, this sounds really interesting, I'm going to watch the video tomorrow. I'm reading the Republic for a test, it's one of the most fascinating books I've ever read.
Hey there!
I am reading The Republic and I must confess that has been a pleasure for me to watch your video! The several insights that you give, are just fabulous. Thanks a lot for the kindness.
P.S. Last night you made a Brazilian guy to be awaken until 5am, watching several videos from yours :)
+Everaldo Clemente You're very welcome! Glad you found the videos useful
Well, that is certainly something good to engage in from time to time
Well, Plato's dialogues are works that need to be read over and over again to get more and more out of them
Thanks! Well, this time around, teaching Intro, I have students who are more engaged -- one semester (Fall vs Spring) really makes a difference
@gbisadler I've had the great pleasure of taking a class this semester entirely on Plato's Republic and Aristotle's politics. Needless to say, the experience has gone above and beyond my wildest expectations.
Well, good thing you cleared all that up!
So true; you see points that i never thought of
it's actually a longer tie, believe it or not. I've just got a very long torso. Glad you liked the video
This is still very helpful 9 years later. Thank you.
You're welcome!
Glad you found it useful
Glad it helped. There are quire a few more over in my channel, organized into playlists
You're welcome. Glad the videos are helpful
You're welcome -- glad you found it useful
thank god for this video. this will help me for my midterms :)
Ugh.. I wish I was in this class, at 39:30 I was just like "BENEFIT OF THE STRONGER! SOMEBODY SAY IT!" haha
Great vid! The arguments about what justice is at the beginning, seem very tedious, especially to a first time reader (me) So its good to go over and clarify :D
Yes, Marist students are a bit reticent -- and these are first semester freshmen
Good video dude, thanks for uploading!
Thanks! Glad you like the videos
Good call Greg. Also, Good lecture. I wish these students were more into the conversation.
I'm writing a paper on The Republic for my World Humanities class. Making sense of most of the text is no joke though. Thank you so much for putting the material into terms that I can understand. These videos are worth their weight in gold.
Glad they were helpful for you!
You're a very engaging and talented lecturer.
thanks!
Great lecture, thank you for this!
You're welcome!
You're very welcome, John. Kind of a neat idea that -- CZcams as a university
Aha! I missed that before. One of the very first classroom videos I did -- a long time ago, while still at FSU -- I was discussing "Ennumerative Induction", and wrote on the chalkboard, in similarly large caps: "Ennumeraive".
So embarrassing to see afterwards! But I get into my topic and don't see the errors on the chalkboard.
I'm glad to read that! Yes, it would be nice, just once in a while, to enjoy a beer while teaching. Not in the cards anytime soon, I suspect
Glad it was useful for you
Thanks for the lecture, really helped me pass my exam recently!
Glad to read it
You're welcome! Glad you like it
haha too bad. By the way, I greatly appreciate the videos you have uploaded. I recently earned my MA in Geography, but I love philosophy. It should have been my minor. Your videos have really helped clarify these texts. Great resource!
I'm kind of getting some little understanding about whats going on in the book. I been reading this book over and over for two days now. Thank for the lecture. It was a big help for me.
Glad it helped!
I enjoyed this! I wish I had more professors like you when I was a college student.
Dr. Sadler please continue making your videos. They are very helpful for me as a first year philosophy undergraduate as I am only starting to read Greek classics (only in English) like Plato and Aristotle. But I'm intrigued with political philosophy, especially with the speculations of Leo Strauss, and his dichotomies of "quarrel of ancients and moderns," and "Jerusalem versus Athens," which I found really riveting. I have only been introduced to his ideas throuhh Shadia Drury's scholarly writings, but I read she is not a reliable interpreter of Strauss. Are you familiar and have read about Strauss' own writings? If so, please bother to make a video about Strauss' key notable ideas.
czcams.com/video/vkXKtxleGA8/video.html
Yes, I've studied Strauss
Very interesting lecture. I never took a Philosophy class in college.
Great lecture, among the best! Out of curiosity, which of the three accounts of justice do you think best accomplishes the goal of having everyone receive his/her due?
What you're essentially saying is that Socrates wouldn't want me to hate my enemies because my hatred wouldn't behoove them or society as a whole. However, there are some former enemies whose fractions are forgivable and others who have hurt me so bad that I want them to receive justice--whether judicial or vigilante.
there is so many aspect of philosophy i want to look at it as a whole and then hone in on points of interest.
Well, I'm not sure how one would look at it as a whole. . . .
You can find videos on books 2, 4, and 7 -- and additional ones on book 1 -- in my various playlists
very nice work! thanks!
great video thanks for upload!
Glad to read it. You're welcome!
@doctordoctordocism It's not necessarily an either-or -- either "spoonfeeding" (which has its place in education) or reading the text itself -- in fact, I now design my courses to try to get students involved in both, as well as some other things that we could say are in the middle of a continuum where spoonfeeding and aggressive stand-alone reading are endpoints.
You're welcome! -- that's a bit odd on CZcams's end -- but I've seen it be rather glitchy before
In terms of having a discussion, I find the question about what gets you into ‘the good place’ an interesting one because it opens up various avenues of consideration. How does the Greek conception of the afterlife compare to ours? Does Socrates (Plato) have the same ideas about the afterlife as his contemporaries? What would the Greeks think about vicarious redemption through a human/God sacrifice? Would they ask as Richard Dawkins did: Why would God kill himself or have himself killed?
You tube is my new Alma Mater. Thanks Greg
John
Bangkok
Kingdom of Thailand
very good class i am enjoying it
Glad to read it
This is way easier to understand than my university prof!
Glad it was helpful for you!
You will encounter Plato, either directly, or as a series of footnotes to him :P.
@Meph552 Yep -- it's like triage when you're teaching Intro or Ethics or any other survey/required course. When I first started teaching about 12 years ago, I did in fact try to cram everything in. My poor students!
I would love someday to get to teach a class just on Plato.
Fantastic lecture, thank you for sharing this with us.
You're very welcome!
I tend to see Platonic dialogues as providing a number of different and interconnected -- rather than just one -- fundamental teachings. The interpretation of the entire Republic as one huge indictment of utopianism certainly has its merits.
You are so talented.
thanks!
I haven't got a favorite -- too difficult once you get into the top ten or so to pick between them
Is there any modern philosophy writings in the style of Plato's Republic ?
I appreciate and i learn a lot from your lectures, thank you !
Well, "Modern Philosophy" runs roughly from 1600-1800, and yes, there's many dialogues from those thinkers -- Hume's Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion and Berkerley's Three Dialogues come to mind.
Speaking on behalf of the slower learners, it is difficult to get engaged in a work like "The Republic," because it's difficult to come to terms with everything that is going on in it. That's one think I'd like to do with my Great Books Group: take the material in such a way as to break it down into easier to digest morsels.
In other words, there's a chance of taking the material over a longer period of time and really getting to know it. (Although I wonder how many care about learning it?)
Great lecture. Just out of curiosity who is your favorite philosopher?
Free college classes, I'm beating the system! Intrinsic knowledge ftw!
Beating the system? I suppose. . .
Gregory B. Sadler Professor Sadler, I have a question regarding Socrates' theology: In book 2 he claims that God cannot be better (being all powerful and perfect), therefore, if God were to change he could only change for the worse. Socrates says that this cannot be because no one would, "desire to make himself worse," and goes further to claim that God is "the fairest and best that is conceivable (therefore) every god remains absolutely and for ever in his own form." Does this presuppose that God is rational or that he has a human capacity for rational thought, that is, avoiding pain and seeking pleasure, and if so, does this truly give Socrates justification to censor all poetic instances of gods misbehaving? Can we assume God's human-like rationality or can these poetic depictions be true on a different theological level where we assume that we cannot conceive of God's rationality? Thank you for sharing this video, Professor.
Plato assumes, yes, that God is rational. That's more than just avoiding pain and pursuing pleasure though. Being fully rational means along in oneself with what is most true and valuable - and if that were painful for a rational being (as it would not be for the kind of god(s) Plato has in mind, it still is for many of us not so good yet human beings!
Aaron Gage You aren't beating the system. If anything, it's this professor beating the system by publicising his lectures for free.
uknol That's funny.
Great Video!
Thanks!
Well, there you go -- I imagine you're writing this recommendation for my viewers, rather than for me, right? -- so, viewers, that's good advice. It certainly doesn't hurt to bring in good commentators as voices in your conversation with Plato and his characters. I'd also recommend Rosen.
Gregory B, Salder,
Do you have comparative video of Hobbes, Locke and Rousseau?
It's actually "Sadler".
I don't, though I have videos on Hobbes. If you're looking for tutoring assistance, you can schedule that through Google Helpouts helpouts.google.com/115610514266074572098
Great! Thank you!
@jenniferlacex Well, by "modern" books -- which go back a long way, into antiquity, actually (so maybe "modern" is not the best term for me to have used!), what I mean are what we technically call "codices" -- books that flip open, with pages -- the kind we're used to. At the time Plato and many of the other ancient authors are writing, literary works were on scrolls instead -- and each scroll was one "book". so, a literary work might comprise 12 "books" (i.e. scrolls).
True, but keep in mind, Callicles is actually hosting the entire party, and has this guy, Socrates, effectively showing up not only himself but his guests as well. I think he actually shows some restraint
Thanks a lot for the insight Greg, using these as supplementals to my universitys lectures'.
P.S I think you need a white jacket for these blackboard lectures haha!
xTheBigKezz Glad the videos are useful for you. Yes, chalk is always a problem. . .
"Going down to the Piraeus" is analogous to Socrates going down into the cave to share his insights with the men chained to the rock. (According to my professor)
Well, kinda sorta, but not really.
You know, if you listen to the passage - around 10:00 - I don't even say "right wing". What I say is "we use more right language", i.e. to describe people who are selfish, "assholes", etc. There's where context is important -- the entire discussion at that point is focused on how we describe people who act like Thrasymachus.
By today's standards, I'm actually more right than left politically. I do tend to keep my own politics out of my classes. Perhaps worth shooting another video about
a different note, Rosen has a great quip about Hegel and his views on religion, something like: If Hegel was a Christian, then he was in a church composed of one member
Your tie is very short. Also, your lecture was wonderful. I've subscribed.
is there a 2nd part to this vid?
that's very nice to read
You forgot the T in justice.lol. Thank you for the video though. It really helped.
Yep, I'm a poor speller. Glad the video helped
Thanks! Unfortunately, though, even if you take a Philosophy class, you might not encounter Plato. It all depends on the school, and who is teaching the class
Mister Sadler, if someone struggles with original sources of philosophy, is it okay to watch your videos or read secondary sources first? I am not especially intelligent or educated, and was hoping it is valid to read secondary sources first. Or is this a bad habit to start?
Merry christmas
Of course it's ok to watch videos and read secondary sources. It's your brain, and you don't need to get permission or validation for your reading or study approaches. You definitely don't want to use secondary sources in place of ever spending time with primary sources, though
@@GregoryBSadler Thank you. I guess what I mean was that when I do not understand the original source I simply have no choice but to trust a secondary source, even though the secondary sources could be biased!
I am an average person and am starting to feel the stress of critical thinking. Thank you so much for your videos.
@@PrinceOfCola It's very rare that a person does not understand any portion of a primary text they're reading. And the more times you read it, the more you'll understand. Don't sell yourself short
Well, there's no requirement to try to grasp everything that's in it -- not the first time, the second time, even the twentieth time around. That's the thing with classics -- they are so rich that nobody gets everything out of them in one reading
If someone is my friend, then they will come to visit me when I'm sick or in trouble; if someone is my acquaintance, then they'll converse with me at parties but won't comfort me in duress; if someone is my enemy, then they'll laugh at me when I'm in duress. And vise versa.
As a student of Plato, I cringed at the mention of skipping the material at the beginning of the Republic, but I suppose given the introductory nature of the class and time constraints, I guess it's unavoidable. It took me until my third class on Plato to fully appreciate and come to understand some of the less noticeable nuances and symbols found in Plato's works.
No, the Republic is not solely about justice, but that is its overarching theme -- and dikaiosune is in fact justice, as is to dikaion.
In Classical Greek at least, dikaiosune does not translate as all virtues -- could be the case for modern Greek -- but as both Plato and Aristotle note, it does in a certain way encompass other virtues.
Not sure what you're getting at in the last sentence. Res Publica is Latin, Politeia is Greek. Maybe you can explain what you meant?
wait, the audio didn't quite catch something, what did you call modern books....?
'until the invention of..." what? something i can't quite make out...
Nice!
Ahh, but the reality is that the tie IS too short.
But I was thinking you can always get a longer tie, while Mr. WalkingDead will always be struggling to--and yet never quite succeeding--at getting his GED. (GED does rhyme with Ph.D., so you two do have something in common.)
Yes !
Can someone help me understand something. I am not sure if I am misunderstanding what i being said or if Socrates is wrong here but….
In book 1 ch 2, when he makes the point that a just man would be a kind of thief I don’t see how his argument follows.
He starts by saying that if you are skilled in one thing you should be skilled in the opposite (I disagree but to keep it short won’t elaborate). But even if we were to grant him, he then goes from if you have the skill to steal then you are a thief, well that doesn’t follow, i could have the skills to be the best runner in the world and never run a day in my life, would that make me a runner?
Plato often has Socrates make what we can figure out are bad arguments (and Plato knows they are too). Think about why someone writing philosophical dialogues as tools for learning might do that, and you'll eventually be less puzzled
@@GregoryBSadler wow I can’t say how I appreciate you getting back to me. I recently started getting interested in philosophy so having the opportunity to ask a philosopher questions is very much appreciated. So i was not confused or misunderstanding, this really is à fallacious argument?
Thanks again, really enjoyed watching your video.
@@fibonacimike4110 I don't know that I'd use the term "fallacious" which would mean falling under one of the fallacies. Weak, bad, having flaws, those are the sorts of terms I'd more likely use
@@GregoryBSadler thanks 😊
Does he talk about Plato's vision on women in this video?
What would you recommend reading after Kant, Kierkegaard, and Nietzsche?
Do you teach in a high school or a university?
I teach occasionally for Marist College - now entirely online
Gregory B. Sadler Alright, you answer fast on CZcams nice.
A wonderful professor, your teaching helped me in understanding my philosophy of Law class. Very clear and simple to understand its meaning, Thank You.
No. Plato doesn't have Socrates and the interlocutors get into that topic until later in the Republic. This video is just book 1
You mean, that are in dialogue form?
Hahaha! I always get a kick out of viewers who get all worked out about clothes -- on a philosophy video -- i.e. on a video about a philosopher who discusses the difference between mere appearance and reality.