Having been recently hurt, can I get rid of the image? | J. Krishnamurti
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
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Madras 1980/1981 - Question #2 from Question & Answer Meeting #2
'Having been recently hurt, and having heard you ask if we can not-record hurt, can we get rid of the image?'
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Choiceless Awareness, live simply, attentively and energetically. Observe thoughts, images and emotions like passing clouds when they arise. Do not choose which one is prettier, fluffier, darker and don't get swept away or float away with them. Clear blue sky is our innate natures. Thanks K and friends.
Clear blue sky is our innate natures,
Relate much!
I felt everytime in a airplane watching blue sky from window
Thank you 🌼
Perfectly said!
That’s beautiful
Thank you i cried because i did not realise id built this image up of the hurt me krishnamurtis teachings have truly liberated me knowing this as fact can now but only set me free of the me i thought i was. Thank you
Wonderful.
For those who are here after breakup ,
The images of companionship, promises and insults ,the image of the other,
Count in ..
So its up to you... drop it. now. here. finish it.
Much respect for this soul who has unshakable clarity about not only himself but the society we live in. In all of his talks, he makes people aware of the existing conditioning of society.
This talk, in particular, he makes his audience aware that society is built on the principle that people have images of themselves. He proposes a question: Is it possible to not have an image about yourself living in this world?
He says it's possible. Do you?
Let's be nobodies :)
Thank god, cameras were present in his existence.
A layer of ignorance is washed out of my mind after watching this video! Thankful for finding this video. Having no self image, being a nobody, yet being efficient with ur capacities. Jiddu krishnamurti ❤
Fantastic! Thank you heaven for such a necessary lesson. Obrigado
Thank you for these uploads. K is saving lives.
“‘in isolation there is no love” 🙏
Thank you so so much for uploading these Gems 💎
❤️Namaste❤️🙏🌸
This is very important 🙏🏼
Thank you for sharing all these videos with us 🌸💙🌼
Beautiful question but an even more beautiful answer .
This is one of Krishnamurti's more focused talks. He asks a question and actually answers it here. Simple, powerful truth. Albeit long-winded like most of his talks.
In every talk he answeres but don't get because we are used to geeting conventional type of answers. Here we make mistakes
His answers are not dead ends. They are inviting you to participate. To see for yourself. A true master indeed.
His long winded routes are to give us, the friends conversating with him, to consider and do the work he's speaking of. It's not for his sake. He very clearly never outright answers definitively.
When K talks about the brain ceasing to record, I take it to mean that events stop being incorporated into the image, once the image itself ceases. Because as long as the image is maintained, it will continue to incorporate into itself each new event, and redetermine its composition in the process, leading to further hurt, fragmentation, deterioration, etc.
When the reflection isn't up to scratch, don't scratch the reflection!
How about the reflection up to scratch?
Let it shine
The image is what causes the feeling of hurt. Because that image has a self-identity, it is immediately reactive to any and all threat.
And when that image is to dissolve immediately, the self, with no identity or image, there would be no hurt, no pain, no suffering.
And as someone who used to live the world through past memories and hurts, the revelation that there was no need to suffer or hold onto any attachments, memories or self-identity was revolutionary. To live life with no image, no recording of any memories, and no personalization of spoken words (insults, criticisms, etc), is to be truly free.
The clarity of these words transmit quiteness, as the water goes trought the fingers.
Wonderful video😊
It sounds like "anatta" in Buddhism. Don't build an image of oneself. Nothing can hurt me because there not exists "me".
"I" took birth with me & will die with myself.
Pls tell how to get rid of it.
Some people consider Krishnamurti ji recarnation of Buddha.
@@shivdevuppal.5713 You don't get rid of it, you just see it for what it is, the truth, and the sensation of ego evaporates.
@@shivdevuppal.5713 do you know who 'I' is? Did you realised who 'I' is?
Thank you 🙏
yes
💖💖💖
Our immeges are being recorded because of the observation of others, maybe fool, reasonably good etc & we start behaving as per those words of the others.
I don't have any mesning unless being accepted by the surrounding.
Or because of race of Being 1st to satisfy own ego.
thnk u sir
The answer I would think is not to try to escape the hurt but to be aware of it and how it affects you
❤
Image - hurt - isolation - fear - hate - you are ready to hurt others😇
🙏🙏🙏
It is a nice Vedio . Thanks for sharing. I learnt we all form image and that is what get hurt. But I did not understand how to not form an image.
Accept that you are nobody , then in a situation when someone does something that would hurt you, you shouldn't expect that the person should not have done that thing because you have an image of yourself that you don't deserve that . I think that's the way.
For me ... I am totally divided when listening.
On the one hand: I see that psychological hurt is always related to an self-image; so therefeore: if there is an » I « there will be hurt and despair and isolation (and therefore no love?!).
On the other hand: The sc. » I « definitely has a purpose. You can easily link it to survival. When Jiddu says that the » I « will leed to pain and then isolation I would say more likely the opposite could be true: why do we feel hurt when not being invited to dinner with important people? Because of the fear of exlusion from society/the tribe. Imagine no one likes you, no one invites you? Maybe being useless for society or - worse - a threat? Being an outcast. That would mean DEATH! For we cannot survive alone. Under this "psycho-evolutionary" viewpoint, you could argue that the fear of rejection and the need to be loved/liked is indispensable for human survival.
While writing this, the idea comes to mind, that the » I « could exist without "interfering" by being fluid/floating. It's allowed to be there, to do what needs to be done (i.e. to cry for mother's love; to cry for society's appreciation; ...) but to not store all of this. To appear when needed, to disintegrate when the process is done. But ... when you argue that you don't mean the memorization of a certain path to a lake or café (Jiddu does this regularily) with all of this, then how do you deal with the very clever process of memorizing a cat or a certain type of person who did you great harm in the past? Sometimes it seems legit to record a hurt. Because it could prevent you from being hurt in the future. You could argue it is silly to record all little hurts and so one but you could also argue that it is very vital for existence.
I feel (?!) the » I « must be integgrated correctly. Not killed. Not wished away. Let me use a parable here: someone is working mindforgotten on a PC. There is no » I «. When someone calls "Joe u want a Coke?" this someone temporarily becomes Joe, drinks a Coke* only to mindforgottenly work at the PC again ...
In truth this process will develope itself more easily than we think. Feel/Experience something greater than the » I « and stick to this so the » I « will submit itself to this "King".
*no covered advertising ;)
czcams.com/video/OnhaZphzl8A/video.html I hope this helps. I have transcribed it too:
It is possible. Completely possible, which means you are nobody. To live in this world and be nobody, except to be a good lawyer, to be a good engineer. You understand? That's our livelihood: to be an excellent teacher. Excellent, inefficiency of any kind where you need the capacity… not an image to be efficient, doesn't mean that you have an image, but psychologically inwardly not to have a single shadow of image. Then nobody can hurt, there is no hurt. Right?
Thanks for your comment. I do agree with what you say. I suppose you have to see the function of the ego on two levels, the psychological and the social level, within which the self-image has a function, indeed. When you want to "kill" the ego as you say, the motivation is the same, it is the ego that wants to get rid of the ego out of pride. "I have less ego than you!" That's why this doesn't work. Krishnamurti mentioned it as well in his talk. The ego goes out the front door and comes back in through the back door. So, just let it be and go for what is essential in your life guided by your values (something greater than the "I" as you express it). With an open mind, improvement will follow.
Anyway, you cannot simply free a self-image from its social hinges because to some extent the self-image is a the-others-image built from feedback. To a certain extent, I say because there is room for maneuver. So I made the same reservation, wondering whether on a psychological level, the self-image had no evolutionary benefits and why the pain inflicted by discrepancies between what others think about you and how you see yourself, is so persistent. Pain gives rise to adjusting the self-image with which you navigate socially so that you are accepted in the group and set realistic goals for yourself that give your life direction.
The self-image as a function only becomes problematic in case it leads to neurotic behavior. It is in that situation that distancing yourself from your self-image - as a construction of the mind, call it a temporary story - can provide a solution. In a narcissistic society, this is of course not an individual matter. When people receive the paradoxical message to write their life story and to "Be authentic!" as a herd animal, they end up in a double bind. It is no coincidence that messages about putting the self into perspective as a construct of the mind are so well received. The idea not only offers balance and inner peace through self-reflection but also provides an escape route from social pressure.
PS: You wrote: "I feel (?!) the » I « must be integrated correctly. Not killed. Not wished away. Let me use a parable here: someone is working mindforgotten on a PC. There is no » I «. When someone calls "Joe u want a Coke?" this someone temporarily becomes Joe, drinks a Coke* only to mindforgottenly work at the PC again ... "
This phenomenon is called 'the bauhaus' by Antonio Damasio, it is a continuous building up and breaking down of the ego, but this process happens so quickly that we hardly notice it unless sometimes coming out of a flow or spread over a long period when change becomes noticeable. The change takes place through a construction plan, which preserves the principle of fragmentation aided by short-term memory.
Please if there's a talk about being heart or abused by a loved one it would be very helpfull
From a relaxed silence people's images and judgments look like their hallucinating, amusingly so. If you replaced thought with imagination it can be quite clearly seen as mere hallucination.
Become nobody!
Very hard considering as we have been raised & as we live.
Being a "good lawyer, carpenter, priest, etc" obviously implies a process of becoming in which recording is absolutely necessary as one has to memorise enormous amounts of information to graduate. In this process, there must inevitably be ways to assess whether or not the person has indeed memorised the knowledge required to fulfil the function. Assessing inevitably means measurement, and therefore comparaison against some sort of standard -- as outlined by others -- which defines either failure or success since some of us are clearly better at memorising and conceptualising than others. In this process, image formation and hurts are therefore inevitable since it is impossible to separate the process of becoming itself from the end result I.E: the sought after function. Otherwise, there cannot be any lawyer, carpenter, priest or indeed any other function in human societies. In other words, you cannot be nobody and somebody at the same time. As much as I like K, what he is proposing here seems not only contradictory (how can one become a lawyer, etc without becoming?) but also highly improbable unless he is suggesting the total termination of human society as we know it since the only way to avoid hurts is to end recording and image formation which, by definition, implies no function.
How do you separate/fragment becoming/recording in 'the technological/practical field' from also happening in the 'psychological field'? So far as I can observe, it cannot be done. There is no separation between these 'fields'. The technology we invent outwardly is a reflection of what we are psychologically. The inner is the outer. We are the World and the World is us.
If there were no memories, there would not be any form. What are quarks, atoms, molecules, DNA, or cells if not different forms of memory? Thus, recording/memories are absolutely necessary for forms to arise and be sustained. This can be observed with varying degree of intensity in any form, from quarks to humans. Humans are no different. I have no notion that 'the brain was made to record practical functions'. The human brain evolved in such a way as to support self-awareness that inevitably gives rise to psychological recording otherwise there would not be any sense of self at all. Meanwhile, there is no way technology can be invented without at least a modicum of self-awareness. Thus, there is no way to separate technological recording from psychological recording. Put another way, a growing sense of self-awareness intensifies a sense of vulnerability, hence a need for defence that translates outwardly as technology. Civilisation is a death-denying exercise. This brings up the question of what death is which is another debate but, put simply, is a movement from the formed to the formless.
The only way out of this requires a transformation from egoic to trans-egoic consciousness that few have achieved and even fewer can understand in the current context. This is the essence of what K says although to translate this into language is virtually impossible since language is at once the root and the essence of egoic translation/consciousness.
'outwardly' you can 'become' in some profession etc., but 'inwardly' you do not 'become' (or else "corrupt")
Ken Mills Thanks for the explanation.
First do it and find what’s necessary or not. Stop all images and see what happens, if something is important, demands image be made for whatever reason in a healthy way , you can always pick it back.
What he is saying is possible I think u anderstood it the wrong way.The way he says it is possible but not easy.He explains it in detail this man is great he doesn't just say big words he is also trying to make u think by yourself.
Only thing to record is Not to RECORD....
Is this solution applicable to hurts of the egoic nature i.e. not being invited to lunch/scolding etc. or to hurts such as physical violence rape, terrorism as well which seem to go beyond ego?
Of course!
Don't focus on the pain, rest your attention upon what treasure the pain has brought. Everyone experiences pain. Let it become a source of strength, joy, peace instead of suffering, fear, anguish.
Only image should be not having an IMAGE.
Can we provide a script of what is he saying ?
Charles has provided it. See attentively.
Image means ego??
HOW do you drop the image? That's my question 🤔
How/ where did you pick up the image? That's your answer
My humble request is to add the full talk video. Otherwise we are led to a climax and the video abruptly ends. Like putting the foot on the gas pedal and then not being shown where the breaks are !
For this and any other extracts, you can look it up yourself by searching for the full talk using the information in the video description. In this case, simply search for 'Madras 1981 Q&A 2' either directly on CZcams or Google. If you learn this method you won't need to ask for the link again. Hope this helps.
@@KFoundation
Thank you 💕
But how to get rid of the image?
Meditation helps. By visualizing the images as clouds, we be free from the identification of the hurt
The eradication of images is a very complex question and therefore it cannot be understood merely on the intellectual level which is thought attempting to eliminate the problem brought about by thought, in this case ‘images’. So your question demands serious consideration. There is a further discussion regarding the subject matter available on CZcams that also goes into it and it may be of interest to you. I refer to the audio recording of Krishnamurti in dialogue No 2 with Jacob Needleman at Malibu in 1971 which is self explanatory, but it may need to be listened to more than once because it is quite revolutionary and surprisingly different from anything else that you can find out about images. The facts are astonishing.
Full video link
czcams.com/video/l11TS7OnaWM/video.html
Be nobody 🙂
I’m still confused at the end of this video
Conclusion: drop the self image of yourself and you will not be hurt.
Develop the art of not becoming hurt. Then there will be no images.
No quite the opposite, you need to fully become the hurt in order to stop the conflict. The hurt is there, if you allow the hurt to surface the conflict ceases
What is it that gets hurt. 🏞?