Who can forget - for those of us old enough - the ferocious slipping out of Waterloo on greasy rails and the rise up onto the arches. What an art for the fireman to keep the engine quiet while still having 280 lb for the start. Dads taking the kids up to see the engine would jump if the valves popped off with a bang!
Nice day weather wise do slipping should not have occurred. Sandboxes if filled didn't help. Initially I thought it was lack of vacuum in brake system but csme round to your view ..... eventually!
Back in the days of main line running, Exeter St Davids to Central was always a challenge for these, 1 in 37 curving climb from a standing start, most trains took a banker, and the daily spectacular was the ballast train from Meldon, the norm for that was 3 Z class bankers added, 1 on the front and two at the back, a LOT of time to get fires and steam up to safety valve lift before they went, wet days were very entertaining!
As an ex-Southern Region fireman I can attest to the fact that the steam driven revering gear on the unmodified Pacifics could be quite problematic. Add to this the Light-footedness of these Pacifics' and experiences such as this were quite frequent. The climb out of Waterloo onto the arches was slightly uphill also but, fortunately, we always had a banker at the rear. A nice bit of footage, thank you.
I remember back in BR days coming back from Morecambe with a long train full of folks from the Worth Valley. After a rainy afternoon the black five just couldn’t get us around that band with the incline too. We had to wait for the usual locomotive used on the line, to come down from Haworth and help.
Where I live in Salisbury they often backed up a little bit before restarting. It is a very difficult start on a steep grade and a curve out of Keighley.
A few years ago, one wet evening I watched an S15 whisk a heavy train out of Salisbury towards London with not a hint of a slip. Great mixed traffic engines.
As an ex Salisbury driver it was possibly my ex workmates on the footplate when you were watching them. Makes me wonder how they coped getting up the bank from Sherborne to Buckhorn Weston (Gillingham) tunnel. They had bankers going up Honiton bank of course if necessary.
@@kristinajendesen7111 With the benefits of hindsight one wonders if the Light Pacifics would not have been better as a 4-6-0? I have heard that the Nelsons were unpopular with fireman. Is Honiton bank the stretch of track before the tunnel where westbound trains are grind away up the hill? The 159s seem to be struggling.
@@physiocrat7143 Yes, you could tell if you had a good unit if they got anywhere near 70mph at the tunnel entrance. Average was about 60 to 65 and a poor one 55mph. I think the 50s flew up there. I haven't heard that about the Nelsons but my DI (driving instructor), said he liked the WR Granges which sometimes appeared on shed. I imagine that if you are right handed it would make it easier firing too with the driver being on the right hand side. Another DI loved the T9s.
There were of course the small wheeled S11 class for the hills. The ultimate 4-6-0 would have the 3 -cylinders and valve gear and 6ft 3ib drivers of the Duke of Gloucester and the LMS 2A boiler as fitted to the rebuilt Scots. That would leave anything else standing.
I had no idea being from the US what the Well stuck meant. I’m like water what? I love the coordination with the whistle and the guy got it moving with a shove. That was just cool teamwork to see. Very cool video though. Would of been best to be a part of it although it looked rather warm
One of many reasons for slipping can be uneven loading of the axles. With these locos being moved round the country by truck on and off trailers the individual axle loadings needs constant checking.
I love content like this! It's literally off the cuff, spur of the moment 😅 Watching Heritage trains, foreign or domestic, is boring when all they ever do is Wizz by on the main. Watching an engine do what it was designed to do... Watching the failures and victories that come with railroading... 🤌
Luckily the problem is easy to figure out: light weight express locomotive. Judging by the landscape that route is more suitable for a local service locomotive, or even better, a freight locomotive (slower and heavier, but more capable of pulling uphill) than a fast express locomotive
I don’t think the initial problem is slipping (there are no chuffs). I think the gear is one one of the centres which means the cylinder that’s supposed to be about to exert some force next is not able to get steam and therefore is unable to apply much force. I’ve known unrebuilt WC/ BoBs to run several feet backwards while attempting to move forwards… and THEN get going. EG 35067. But then the slipping sets in… One driver used to apply the locomotive brake (only) to control slipping and then open the regulator. This is how he got heavy trains up Sole Street Bank in Kent with the same type of loco. Counter-intuitive but it worked!
seen that curve out of Keighley claim a few scalps over the years... a 55 slipping to a stand (on one engine) a 50 having a flash over... probably more
Not the best of departures but hey ho all came good in the end. The Bulleid engines had no problems on Great Western railway as no 1in 36 inclines on a tight curb like Keighley. Thanks for your patient filming
Hi, enjoyed the video, bit different this was, as K&WVR is my local heritage line and have filmed City of Wells there many times it was really interesting watching her struggle on the steep curve out of Keighley, thanks for showing, i have subscribed to you...Mal
On the Spam Cans, the oil bath was one of the major problems with wheel slip. Sanders were used on many occasions but no solution was ever found to alleviate the problem. This, of course, has perpetuated into today's preserved railway scene and will never change IMO. Seeing a spam can slipping almost to a stand out of Victoria on a Pullman special highlights a problem that will never go away.
Same with the climb to exeter central from st davids. Brutal! How they were ever diagrammed for that route with that ascent and curve 200yds into the london bound journey beats me. Perhaps they were banking on the GWR's Goodwill - literally 🤣
@@captainboing The SR provided up to 3 banking (tank) locomotives to assist with the climb. They hung around the environs of St. David's until they were needed. If I remember rightly, SR even provided a massive "Z" tank for the task at one point.
Oil baths had nothing to do with slipping or fires, none of the oil from it can get to the wheels for a start. It's just down to how it is driven. Had many rides on Bulleids in the wet and dry, and the crews have managed to keep the locos from slipping. seeing a spam slip on a very heavy Pullman on a steep climb out of Vic is somehow a problem? Not bad railhead condiitons or it being overloaded ?
@@shipsarerubbish What an aggressive reply! Oil baths (and leaks from them) have been the problem since they were built and it is extremely well documented in the many books on the subject of Bulleid Pacifics. If you are saying that all the authors (that includes ex-SR Crew) are wrong then you are on the wrong planet. As for Victoria, who is calling it a "problem"? The video I was referring to was on a perfectly dry day; the Pacific slipped - I didn't exclaim anything, just accepted it as I have seen it happen on many occasions in the past at many different locations.
It's well documented to be rubbish. Oil got onto the wheels from the axle box keeps and not from the bath. If the bath's leaked (and did leak that much) it would just end up on the sleepers and ballast, not wheels. This has been vairfied by the Eastleigh Works Foreman and Eastleigh firmen. Ask Bob Cartwright(ex Eastleigh Cleaner and Fireman) to confirm this. You said the slipping at Vic was highligting the "problem" which there isn't. It's just the way pacifics start or how difficalt is to start out of VIc. @@MrTudwud
Think i was on the footplate on that one. From what i remember Wells had stopped with the valves set dead centre so struggled to get off the mark hence the first shove, but then just struggled to for traction up the hill. Was only a trainee at the time so don’t take my word for it.
I suppose this clearly , in simple terms that anyone will understand , is the difference between a 100m sprinter and a rugby loose forward ! The spamcan is the sprinter , in Afrikaans we say " n beitjie lig in die broek " that engine is designed for fast light work !
The 1 in 58 out of Keighley is the steepest gradient on the line. However, CoW shouldn't have had a problem as in BR days Light Pacifics regularly worked on a much steeper one than that, the 1 in 36 for 2 miles up the Slade Valley from the platform end at Ilfracombe towards Mortehoe. The unassisted limit for a WC/BoB up the bank was 205 tons. That equates to 5 fully loaded BR Mk1 stock.
Easy to blame the Loco, but arrangements should be made where there is a known problem. Interestingly, they used a banker who should have pushed the train all the way to the end of the platform up to the ground signal in the first instance giving it a running start. If it was sticky brakes, all that was needed was the strings pulled on each coach.
C'mon, own up. Whose idea was it to put hills in Yorkshire? Interesting that the 4-6-0 had to be Bulleid into helping out! When the problem was finally sorted out, I bet the crew was chuffed.
Some years back, I got a footplate ride on a Stanier 8F with a train that length. She pulled away without a trace of slip, and just stomped up the bank as though it was nothing special. But then, the 8Fs were designed by an engineer - not by an idiotic show-off.
Many years ago, I saw a video of LMS 6201 Princess Elizabeth struggling on an excursion, eventually pulling into a siding to wait for assistance. When the locomotive was in shops, it was discovered to be some tons out of balance. I think this problem has a familiar feel to it, maybe a check in this direction would help allay any fears. I know the Bullieds' were notorious for poor starts but this was ridiculous. (Couldn't pull a greasy skewer out of the rear of a roast chicken).
City of wells is very well set up and is very sure footed, even for a bullied. The axle loading is very carefully done to be as perfect as possible. The curve out of Keighley is pretty tight and steep.
I've lost count of how many times these bullied light pacifics have gotten stuck! The South Devon Railway is also another notorious location for this to happen. Tangmere and Bittern have fallen foul of this in the past and required assistance to resume. Just goes to show these engines are not designed for the steep grads and tight corners of some of these heritage lines. The open mainline is where the pacifics shine! It makes for a nice spectacle and its interesting to see, but its not exactly a smooth operation.
They handle steep gradients as well as any other pacific, better in some cases. I love how everyone just ignores the times when these locos flatten banks and just pick on the odd occasion when the track conditions have let them down. Tangmere has put some rockering performances on the main line. E.G. Upwey bank and Hemerdon.
@@shipsarerubbish Hemerdon and Upwey are on the mainline. I agree they are very steep and Tangmere has indeed put in good performances on it. But this video was on a very tight bend, up a steel gradient and from a standing start. Hemerdon and Upwey are relatively straight, and they have the opportunity for a bit of a run up. My point was, they are not suited to branch lines.
Upwey, climbs stright out of Weymouth and this not an issuse of the gradient or the locomotive type. You seem to forget that 34092 was based at the Worth Valley from restoration, it's started away many many times on this climb, with no issue. Just on this occasion, there seems to be a brake problem. This climb or others really are not an issue for Bulleids, as been proven many times in the past. @@justandy333
They really need to shorten that train to reduce drawbar effort. This is why years ago passenger drivers had to gain experience over 10 -15 years before driving on express engines.
Four or five coaches is standard on the Worth Valley, with perhaps six on busy days. Even a class 2 (e.g. 41241 or 78022) can take four up the line with no difficulty, and class 4 locos take five in the usual course of events. A class 7P6F loco should have no difficulty.
Always did a slip you can see when these beasts left Waterloo all of them slipped MN,BB,WC so it didn't matter the weight just very good traction but when they went they did had to be a very slow crawl then get into rhythm. 😊
As a former steam driver I would agree with your assessment: probably sticking brakes. If those carriages have been in works for maintenance recently, and had the brakes adjusted up, just setting them on a curve can cause the brake shoes to bind on the wheels, and no amount of effort from the train engine will solve it, especially not a Light Pacific!
Not an expert, but I suspected stuck brakes too. The shuddering of the coaches looked to me like what happens when power is applied but the wheels are not rotating. Perhaps a more powerful locomotive would have been able to pull it along regardless, but that would risk creating flat spots on the frozen wheels.
When they stopped in the curved platform, did they get all the carriages buffered up so that, when they initially pulled away they pulled only the first carriage which then helped the second carriage, and so on. In other words, don't stop with all the drawbars at full stretch which would cause the engine to try to move one long solid mass of carriages.
Also due to Bulleid's idiotic design of putting the valve gear in an oil bath, which constantly leaked oil over the wheels and brake blocks. Sometimes, enough was thrown up into the boiler cladding that it was set on fire by sparks thrown up from the brake blocks . . . You can't blame it all on the axle loading (16 tons), as the Merchant Navies were pretty much the same, and their axle loading was 21 tons.
@@jackx4311ah, good to see the same old rubbish about the oil baths is still propagate around. You do realise that the in preservation era, the valve gear has proven itself to work perfectly well. Wells is a perfect case for showing it's reliability and performance. For fact of the matter, the oil baths only leaked a small in service and if they did, it would just drop straight onto the ballast and sleepers. There's no way that oil would be able to get to the wheels. The source of the oil getting onto the wheels was traced back to the cap oil trays that feed various parts of the engine, including the axle box keeps. If the wicks were left in by crews when they were finished, the oil would keep flowing and over spill onto the wheels, then eventually thrown up once underway. The fires were started by this oil building up and under heavy braking, the sparks from the blocks would set it off. Once this was discovered, the brake blocks were changed to a less spark throwing type and crews were reminded to remove the wicks. As you've noticed, there's been no fires in preservation nor major issues with the oil baths. Even the rebuilt locomotives "slipped" the same as the originals, showing that is was nothing to do with the oil baths, but the fact is all Pacific loco's have a tendency to slip as the load transfers weight off the driving axles. City of Wells and Tangmere have put on phenomenal performances on the mainline, really showing how well they work. I get that you seem to have an irrational dislike of Bulleid's, but keep spreading lies about them👍
The weight of the train should be determined by the adhesive weight of the loco. 16 tons x 3 axles = 48 tons adhesive weight. This means a total weight of train in passenger service should not exceed 480 tons on straight, level and dry track. Of course the weight of the train has to decrease as soon as curves, grades and slippery rail enter in to the equation.
Bulled Pacific's where infamous for their lack of adhesion, probably due to the lack of adhesive weight, well they where termed as Light Pacific's. Just an observation, at 8:44 there are 2 members of the public standing at the bottom of the ramp at the end of the platform. I happen to know that once you step onto the ramp, you are deemed as being "On the Track", and that is a big no no for the general public.
I would leave a couple of comments about loading and frantic arm waving by staff as signals to crew, but, since it a video from a few years ago, there does not seem much point!
I wasn't on the train, as I assume you weren't, so I don't know, but there may well have been a member of staff on the train informing passengers of the situation. It's easy to throw brickbats when not in full possession of the facts. I'm just very grateful to all the volunteers who keep heritage railways operating for my, and millions of other peoples, pleasure.
It's an enthusiast line, I can't imagine for one second any one of those passengers was anything less than interested and excited at the unfolding drama. It's a talking point hence us all here now and to have witnessed it firsthand must have been great
This could have been an act of sabotage caused by someone deliberately putting vaseline or some other greasey substance on the rails in the dead of night when no one was looking knowing that the City of wells has such a notorious record for slipping then watching the drama unfold from a safe distance killing themselves with laughter! as it does not take much to bring the city of wells to her knees.As a relative of the legendary " MALLARD" gid she herself suffer from the same issue?
Maybe I'm missing something but the curve and gradient haven't suddenly appeared out of nowhere. By the same token the characteristics of the Bulleid light pacifics are well known. Is it beyond the wit of the KWVR to organise things so that locos are allocated to trains they can actually manage? Even on a heritage railway a delay of more than an hour because they are asking a locomotive to do the physically impossible is a piece of nonsense.
A far more likely reason is damp sand even in summer it can be an issue, coming out of the curve on platform 4 at the K&WVR is not easy and sanding really helps traction.
I know this comment maybe offensive but I have never understood why sand is not used for traction in England, on the other side of the world AUSTRALIA we would have done the following if we experienced a difficult start from a terminal station that had a tight curve & a stiff grade, the loco crew would sand coming down to couple onto the train, I am aware this loco is light footed based on what I have seen & read about them over the years, I also wondered why the bank engine that got the whole show moving why it didn't keep pushing till it cleared the gradient, or is there some safe working issue to deal with that does not allow this type of train movement?
@@tomlawson8216 I am aware that due to steam loco's in England not have air brakes they used steam to clean the track which also collected & discharged the sand as well ,I knew an ex BR Fireman here who told me they used steam as a sander, I noticed on this video steam appearing around the front driving wheel, so I did a bit of investigation & you are correct the loco's do have sand box, so it was ever empty or the sand had became wet & caused a blockage in the delivery pipe.
Typical southern rubbish!! An hour to get out of the station! A gwr manor castle hall would of walked that train out of there with not one slip, even with pushes spam can didnt want to go!! All those merchant navy and west countrys should of stayed in barry!! How the hell they run express passenger services, and kept to time ill never know!!
Is that just a comment from ignorance or just jealousy? Tangmere has out perfomed all of the Western locos, on Western terrtory. czcams.com/video/Vsab1OhIJcc/video.htmlfeature=shared
Yes, but sorry, it CAN be helped! This seems to be a fairly frequent occurrence at Keighley, not solely involving the Bullied, and reflects very badly on the Traffic Manager of the KWVR. 1hr 10mins delay - totally unacceptable. Given the gradient and the chosen train weight one would have thought that correct motive power calculations would be a start, a regular banker or double-heading a secondary, and acted upon QUICKLY. If it was a brake issue then maintenance comes into question too. Not all passengers will be pleased with such lack of foresight. It will have left many with a very bad experience, particularly families with small children who may have travelled a distance to be there. A lot of passengers will be seriously unimpressed and a sad reflection on all heritage railways.
On the contrary; even Bulleid's 'Merchant Navy' class engines were notorious for slipping to a stand, and his 'West Country/Battle of Britain' class was even worse. They had a toxic combination of two problems, BOTH down to Bulleid's ego-tripping; first, that bloody awful 'valve gear in an oilbath' set-up, which constantly leaked oil over the wheels and brake blocks; second, his even worse 'chain driven valve gear', which was tricky enough to deal with, even brand new, but was a hair-trigger disaster as soon as it had any wear. Suffice it to say that Bulleid contacted Renold's Chains to enquire about using chains to drive the valve gear, as was and is done in many car and truck engines. Part way through the conversation, Renold's man realised the chains would have to work in both directions, and assured Bulleid that it would NEVER work accurately. But Bulleid knew best (as always) and fitted it anyway. In a very short time, Renold's man was proved right, so what did Bulleid do? He went and built *hundreds MORE* of the bloody things, all with the same faults! Not without reason did a senior loco manager on the Southern Railway refer to those classes as "the Chief Mechanical Engineer's clockwork mice!"
@@jackx4311 I am certain I agree with what you say. I am certainly no fan of Bulleid’s unmodified 4-6-2s, but in support of the design I should say that I once had a conversation with the chief mechanical engineer at the York National Rail Museum and he said that, in theory, Bullied’s design of valve gear and the oil both were both excellent ideas. It was putting them into practice that caused the problems! What I was referring to in my original comment when I said the loco should have had no problem starting the train away from Keighley was that it was only hauling five carriages. A medium sized tank engine would have handled that load with no problem. What we don’t know is were the brakes dragging, was the driver inexperienced in handling a Bullied Pacific, was the loco priming? The situation seems to have been cause by two problems. First, the loco may have been stopped in ‘dead centre’ (inexperienced driver?), and then when it was given a push it developed a serious slipping problem.
I'm with both Jackx and Gareth on SR Pacific's never know how they ever kept time 😂😂😂 But just quickly on your point Gareth, I'm almost 99.9% certain that a 3 cyl can't stop at T.D.C. unlike 2 cyls engines.
Well then, here’s me thinking it was because it was a Saturday that caused all the issues!🤪😜🤣😂 Seriously, I bow to all you chaps with the knowledge! Me? Not a clue about any of it, it’s probably cos I’m short, but I do my best!!!!!
I’m sorry but the way this was handled was pathetic and completely embarrassing?!! Why didn’t the loco on the back just keep pushing your train up and around the bend and wait till you were on the level track then back off when the train was ok to go on by itself?? Can not believe the way it was handled 🙄🙄🤨🤨 I mean that’s all they had to do?!!
Typical from this kind of misleadingly video, all the Bulleid haters crawl out of the woodwork 😂. This locomotive didn't earn the nickname "The Volcano" for not struggling on gradients. 34092 was based at tbe KWVR for 10 years and made this start away countless times, along with a hugely successful mainline career on the Settle & Carlisle. To watch this video and claim that its a problem all the time, is extremely ignorant of reality. Any other video of this locomotive on this railway or on the NYMR, shows what it is actually capable of. This comment section is the side of the hobby that's depressing. No facts, just hate😢
The fact is that this class of loco is notorious for slipping! Why deny reality? And it was nicknamed the volcano due to the prodigious quantities of clag (i.e. unburnt fuel) that it emitted.
@@andrewhotston983 only notorious by people who ignore all the other Pacific's. Yes it did get it's nickname by producing spectacular exhaust plumes, which it did climbing over the S&C. Wells had no trouble on the NYMR with the heavy Dining train. czcams.com/video/CaCTS5tAUQ0/video.htmlsi=uqCpORQIEGMz3RVM People really have it in for Bulleids, for absolutely no reason.
@@04clemea So all the other comments, books etc are wrong, just because you found one CZcams video of a Light Pacific climbing a gradient without slipping? Hmmm...
@@andrewhotston983 🤣🤣🤣 Yeah, there's a lot of people playing to the stereotype that all Bulleids slip constantly and can't climb hills. When it's been clearly demonstrated multiple times, buy Wells or Tangmere or Clan Line or British India Line or Taw Valley, that they are no different to other Pacific's. A quick dig through archive footage of King's Cross and you'll see A1's, A2's, A3's, A4's, Brits..etc. slipping. Generally speaking from personal opinion, I think it's the fact that we have so many Bulleids running in preservation, that you would find it easier to point out that they slip "more". It's not because they do, but because there's more of them to point out. Here's a great example of Tangmere having a small slip as it takes the load, then it's gets clean departure and accelerating without slipping at all. czcams.com/video/o8L980VRDKo/video.htmlsi=poSWAmsci3CNAQYZ Was riding behind Manston the other week at the Mid Hants and climbing the 1in60 gradients no trouble what so ever and in the middle of a massive rain storm.
Typical Bulleid Pacific. When hauling a load, some of the weight is transferred to the rear non-driving axle under the firebox. This reduces adhesion. A 4-6-0 would have a better grip. It's why the GWR did not have Pacifics.
It always amuses me that you Brits seem to think that a 1 in 49 curving gradient is like the north face of Everest in railway terms and yet 1 in 49 is NOT that steep and 34092 has been based on the railway for years. What if the KWVR was 1 in 49 from Keighley to Oxenhope. Here down under we're used to steep gradients on Mainlines and here's one where even diesels are down on their "hands and knees" struggling to climb this particular gradient which like the KWVR is 5 miles in length but with a ruling gradient of 1 in 40 the whole way. Where the gradient steepens to 1 in 35 the steam loco is heard to slow. She's hauling one bogie water tank and six coaches on her own. She does get a run at the grade but momentum soon runs out and it's a slog to the top. Enjoy a REAL gradient run with a superbly handled engine. czcams.com/video/xeWhlVYfQq8/video.htmlsi=H47H5-M-hXWADM1S
What an excellent video!! Thank you Peter!
Who can forget - for those of us old enough - the ferocious slipping out of Waterloo on greasy rails and the rise up onto the arches. What an art for the fireman to keep the engine quiet while still having 280 lb for the start. Dads taking the kids up to see the engine would jump if the valves popped off with a bang!
They are well known to be light footed and Keighleys grade and curve drag isn't what they were designed for really
Nice day weather wise do slipping should not have occurred. Sandboxes if filled didn't help. Initially I thought it was lack of vacuum in brake system but csme round to your view ..... eventually!
Back in the days of main line running, Exeter St Davids to Central was always a challenge for these, 1 in 37 curving climb from a standing start, most trains took a banker, and the daily spectacular was the ballast train from Meldon, the norm for that was 3 Z class bankers added, 1 on the front and two at the back, a LOT of time to get fires and steam up to safety valve lift before they went, wet days were very entertaining!
As an ex-Southern Region fireman I can attest to the fact that the steam driven revering gear on the unmodified Pacifics could be quite problematic. Add to this the Light-footedness of these Pacifics' and experiences such as this were quite frequent. The climb out of Waterloo onto the arches was slightly uphill also but, fortunately, we always had a banker at the rear. A nice bit of footage, thank you.
Hi, a class Z 0-8-0 replica would be ideal, 8 were built, 30950-7
That was a truly brilliant video! What a ride that turned out to be haha, two for the price of one!
Nice recreation of the Somerset and Dorset!
Nice arrow on the loco...pointing the way forward.
We remember the same thing happened with Flying Scotsman at Bridgnorth. last year. Had to reverse,then got gear.
Great topic. Great presentation. Thank you for sharing with us too!
I remember back in BR days coming back from Morecambe with a long train full of folks from the Worth Valley. After a rainy afternoon the black five just couldn’t get us around that band with the incline too. We had to wait for the usual locomotive used on the line, to come down from Haworth and help.
Where I live in Salisbury they often backed up a little bit before restarting. It is a very difficult start on a steep grade and a curve out of Keighley.
A few years ago, one wet evening I watched an S15 whisk a heavy train out of Salisbury towards London with not a hint of a slip.
Great mixed traffic engines.
As an ex Salisbury driver it was possibly my ex workmates on the footplate when you were watching them. Makes me wonder how they coped getting up the bank from Sherborne to Buckhorn Weston (Gillingham) tunnel. They had bankers going up Honiton bank of course if necessary.
@@kristinajendesen7111
With the benefits of hindsight one wonders if the Light Pacifics would not have been better as a 4-6-0? I have heard that the Nelsons were unpopular with fireman.
Is Honiton bank the stretch of track before the tunnel where westbound trains are grind away up the hill? The 159s seem to be struggling.
@@physiocrat7143 Yes, you could tell if you had a good unit if they got anywhere near 70mph at the tunnel entrance. Average was about 60 to 65 and a poor one 55mph. I think the 50s flew up there.
I haven't heard that about the Nelsons but my DI (driving instructor), said he liked the WR Granges which sometimes appeared on shed. I imagine that if you are right handed it would make it easier firing too with the driver being on the right hand side. Another DI loved the T9s.
There were of course the small wheeled S11 class for the hills.
The ultimate 4-6-0 would have the 3 -cylinders and valve gear and 6ft 3ib drivers of the Duke of Gloucester and the LMS 2A boiler as fitted to the rebuilt Scots.
That would leave anything else standing.
Looked like lots of wheel spin to me.❤
I had no idea being from the US what the Well stuck meant. I’m like water what? I love the coordination with the whistle and the guy got it moving with a shove. That was just cool teamwork to see. Very cool video though. Would of been best to be a part of it although it looked rather warm
Those BR standard always they to save the day. I can call several times a BR standard has either helped me or another engine out of sticky situation.
One of many reasons for slipping can be uneven loading of the axles. With these locos being moved round the country by truck on and off trailers the individual axle loadings needs constant checking.
I love content like this! It's literally off the cuff, spur of the moment 😅 Watching Heritage trains, foreign or domestic, is boring when all they ever do is Wizz by on the main. Watching an engine do what it was designed to do... Watching the failures and victories that come with railroading... 🤌
Luckily the problem is easy to figure out: light weight express locomotive.
Judging by the landscape that route is more suitable for a local service locomotive, or even better, a freight locomotive (slower and heavier, but more capable of pulling uphill) than a fast express locomotive
SPAM can light on its feet, spins on the WSR as well.
I don’t think the initial problem is slipping (there are no chuffs). I think the gear is one one of the centres which means the cylinder that’s supposed to be about to exert some force next is not able to get steam and therefore is unable to apply much force.
I’ve known unrebuilt WC/ BoBs to run several feet backwards while attempting to move forwards… and THEN get going. EG 35067. But then the slipping sets in…
One driver used to apply the locomotive brake (only) to control slipping and then open the regulator. This is how he got heavy trains up Sole Street Bank in Kent with the same type of loco. Counter-intuitive but it worked!
All Pacifics tend to slip more than anything else. Don't panic Captain Mainwaring! JG.
'ere what's the name of that engine?.........Don't tell him Pike
seen that curve out of Keighley claim a few scalps over the years... a 55 slipping to a stand (on one engine) a 50 having a flash over... probably more
Which 50 do you remember?
@@isleofthanet 026 at the 2012 diesel gala. Failed right before the plate bridge
Not the best of departures but hey ho all came good in the end. The Bulleid engines had no problems on Great Western railway as no 1in 36 inclines on a tight curb like Keighley.
Thanks for your patient filming
Hi, enjoyed the video, bit different this was, as K&WVR is my local heritage line and have filmed City of Wells there many times it was really interesting watching her struggle on the steep curve out of Keighley, thanks for showing, i have subscribed to you...Mal
Cheers, have also subd’!
On the Spam Cans, the oil bath was one of the major problems with wheel slip. Sanders were used on many occasions but no solution was ever found to alleviate the problem. This, of course, has perpetuated into today's preserved railway scene and will never change IMO. Seeing a spam can slipping almost to a stand out of Victoria on a Pullman special highlights a problem that will never go away.
Same with the climb to exeter central from st davids. Brutal! How they were ever diagrammed for that route with that ascent and curve 200yds into the london bound journey beats me. Perhaps they were banking on the GWR's Goodwill - literally 🤣
@@captainboing The SR provided up to 3 banking (tank) locomotives to assist with the climb. They hung around the environs of St. David's until they were needed. If I remember rightly, SR even provided a massive "Z" tank for the task at one point.
Oil baths had nothing to do with slipping or fires, none of the oil from it can get to the wheels for a start. It's just down to how it is driven. Had many rides on Bulleids in the wet and dry, and the crews have managed to keep the locos from slipping.
seeing a spam slip on a very heavy Pullman on a steep climb out of Vic is somehow a problem? Not bad railhead condiitons or it being overloaded ?
@@shipsarerubbish What an aggressive reply! Oil baths (and leaks from them) have been the problem since they were built and it is extremely well documented in the many books on the subject of Bulleid Pacifics. If you are saying that all the authors (that includes ex-SR Crew) are wrong then you are on the wrong planet. As for Victoria, who is calling it a "problem"? The video I was referring to was on a perfectly dry day; the Pacific slipped - I didn't exclaim anything, just accepted it as I have seen it happen on many occasions in the past at many different locations.
It's well documented to be rubbish. Oil got onto the wheels from the axle box keeps and not from the bath. If the bath's leaked (and did leak that much) it would just end up on the sleepers and ballast, not wheels. This has been vairfied by the Eastleigh Works Foreman and Eastleigh firmen.
Ask Bob Cartwright(ex Eastleigh Cleaner and Fireman) to confirm this.
You said the slipping at Vic was highligting the "problem" which there isn't. It's just the way pacifics start or how difficalt is to start out of VIc. @@MrTudwud
Never been to the K.W.V.R, myself, awesome camera view of Keighley curve, and up hill. City Of Wells needs some support from a BR stand four
Think i was on the footplate on that one. From what i remember Wells had stopped with the valves set dead centre so struggled to get off the mark hence the first shove, but then just struggled to for traction up the hill. Was only a trainee at the time so don’t take my word for it.
Sounds good to me! Thanks!
Real life with steam trains. Nice video 👍
Cheers!
I suppose this clearly , in simple terms that anyone will understand , is the difference between a 100m sprinter and a rugby loose forward ! The spamcan is the sprinter , in Afrikaans we say " n beitjie lig in die broek " that engine is designed for fast light work !
I guess the traction control system wasn't working that day! JK. Great video.
Cheers!
The 1 in 58 out of Keighley is the steepest gradient on the line. However, CoW shouldn't have had a problem as in BR days Light Pacifics regularly worked on a much steeper one than that, the 1 in 36 for 2 miles up the Slade Valley from the platform end at Ilfracombe towards Mortehoe. The unassisted limit for a WC/BoB up the bank was 205 tons. That equates to 5 fully loaded BR Mk1 stock.
I like the way the City of Wells puffs away pretending that she is actually making a contribution, whereas another engine is doing the hard work! 🤣🤣
City of Wells just being a classic slippery bulleid.
Easy to blame the Loco, but arrangements should be made where there is a known problem. Interestingly, they used a banker who should have pushed the train all the way to the end of the platform up to the ground signal in the first instance giving it a running start.
If it was sticky brakes, all that was needed was the strings pulled on each coach.
C'mon, own up. Whose idea was it to put hills in Yorkshire? Interesting that the 4-6-0 had to be Bulleid into helping out! When the problem was finally sorted out, I bet the crew was chuffed.
Where else would Jowett have tested their cars then!
Another brilliant vid well done keep posting
Thank you!
Some years back, I got a footplate ride on a Stanier 8F with a train that length. She pulled away without a trace of slip, and just stomped up the bank as though it was nothing special.
But then, the 8Fs were designed by an engineer - not by an idiotic show-off.
And the 8fs have four axles not three and the wheels are a foot and a half less diameter.
Many years ago, I saw a video of LMS 6201 Princess Elizabeth struggling on an excursion, eventually pulling into a siding to wait for assistance. When the locomotive was in shops, it was discovered to be some tons out of balance. I think this problem has a familiar feel to it, maybe a check in this direction would help allay any fears. I know the Bullieds' were notorious for poor starts but this was ridiculous. (Couldn't pull a greasy skewer out of the rear of a roast chicken).
City of wells is very well set up and is very sure footed, even for a bullied. The axle loading is very carefully done to be as perfect as possible. The curve out of Keighley is pretty tight and steep.
I've lost count of how many times these bullied light pacifics have gotten stuck!
The South Devon Railway is also another notorious location for this to happen. Tangmere and Bittern have fallen foul of this in the past and required assistance to resume.
Just goes to show these engines are not designed for the steep grads and tight corners of some of these heritage lines. The open mainline is where the pacifics shine!
It makes for a nice spectacle and its interesting to see, but its not exactly a smooth operation.
They handle steep gradients as well as any other pacific, better in some cases.
I love how everyone just ignores the times when these locos flatten banks and just pick on the odd occasion when the track conditions have let them down.
Tangmere has put some rockering performances on the main line. E.G. Upwey bank and Hemerdon.
@@shipsarerubbish Hemerdon and Upwey are on the mainline. I agree they are very steep and Tangmere has indeed put in good performances on it. But this video was on a very tight bend, up a steel gradient and from a standing start. Hemerdon and Upwey are relatively straight, and they have the opportunity for a bit of a run up. My point was, they are not suited to branch lines.
Upwey, climbs stright out of Weymouth and this not an issuse of the gradient or the locomotive type. You seem to forget that 34092 was based at the Worth Valley from restoration, it's started away many many times on this climb, with no issue. Just on this occasion, there seems to be a brake problem. This climb or others really are not an issue for Bulleids, as been proven many times in the past. @@justandy333
Ah, the Dead Spot. All engines have one where the pistons have no leverage.
Why didn't they just bank city of wells to the top of the hill 🚂????????????
Agreed and I just posted the same, just that short push was a bit mean?
The Bulleid Pacifics had a history of slipping. City of Wells is better off now on the ELR.
Poor sanding, American locomotives have sanders on each drive wheel
Slipping because of the UK weather.
They really need to shorten that train to reduce drawbar effort. This is why years ago passenger drivers had to gain experience over 10 -15 years before driving on express engines.
Four or five coaches is standard on the Worth Valley, with perhaps six on busy days. Even a class 2 (e.g. 41241 or 78022) can take four up the line with no difficulty, and class 4 locos take five in the usual course of events. A class 7P6F loco should have no difficulty.
Epic Wheel Slip
a bit of the old sommerset and dorset lol was nice to see this again thanks for shiring
A line designed for tank engines a branch line i doubt pre 60s a large engine ever ran up full length of this line
Always did a slip you can see when these beasts left Waterloo all of them slipped MN,BB,WC so it didn't matter the weight just very good traction but when they went they did had to be a very slow crawl then get into rhythm. 😊
NGL..... This is a good problem for any tourist railroad to have😊
As a former steam driver I would agree with your assessment: probably sticking brakes. If those carriages have been in works for maintenance recently, and had the brakes adjusted up, just setting them on a curve can cause the brake shoes to bind on the wheels, and no amount of effort from the train engine will solve it, especially not a Light Pacific!
Not an expert, but I suspected stuck brakes too. The shuddering of the coaches looked to me like what happens when power is applied but the wheels are not rotating. Perhaps a more powerful locomotive would have been able to pull it along regardless, but that would risk creating flat spots on the frozen wheels.
I suspect it’s brake release issues or she’s stuck in mid gear… but I’ll watch on to see what happens
When they stopped in the curved platform, did they get all the carriages buffered up so that, when they initially pulled away they pulled only the first carriage which then helped the second carriage, and so on. In other words, don't stop with all the drawbars at full stretch which would cause the engine to try to move one long solid mass of carriages.
When was this shot, certainly, judging by the cloths and foliage NOT Feb this year
@2018 cheers.
Half an hour to get moving 😂..!!
From what I'e read this particular class was known for wheel slip due to it's light axle loading
Also due to Bulleid's idiotic design of putting the valve gear in an oil bath, which constantly leaked oil over the wheels and brake blocks. Sometimes, enough was thrown up into the boiler cladding that it was set on fire by sparks thrown up from the brake blocks . . .
You can't blame it all on the axle loading (16 tons), as the Merchant Navies were pretty much the same, and their axle loading was 21 tons.
@@jackx4311ah, good to see the same old rubbish about the oil baths is still propagate around.
You do realise that the in preservation era, the valve gear has proven itself to work perfectly well. Wells is a perfect case for showing it's reliability and performance.
For fact of the matter, the oil baths only leaked a small in service and if they did, it would just drop straight onto the ballast and sleepers. There's no way that oil would be able to get to the wheels.
The source of the oil getting onto the wheels was traced back to the cap oil trays that feed various parts of the engine, including the axle box keeps. If the wicks were left in by crews when they were finished, the oil would keep flowing and over spill onto the wheels, then eventually thrown up once underway.
The fires were started by this oil building up and under heavy braking, the sparks from the blocks would set it off.
Once this was discovered, the brake blocks were changed to a less spark throwing type and crews were reminded to remove the wicks.
As you've noticed, there's been no fires in preservation nor major issues with the oil baths.
Even the rebuilt locomotives "slipped" the same as the originals, showing that is was nothing to do with the oil baths, but the fact is all Pacific loco's have a tendency to slip as the load transfers weight off the driving axles.
City of Wells and Tangmere have put on phenomenal performances on the mainline, really showing how well they work.
I get that you seem to have an irrational dislike of Bulleid's, but keep spreading lies about them👍
The weight of the train should be determined by the adhesive weight of the loco. 16 tons x 3 axles = 48 tons adhesive weight. This means a total weight of train in passenger service should not exceed 480 tons on straight, level and dry track. Of course the weight of the train has to decrease as soon as curves, grades and slippery rail enter in to the equation.
Too much Inox on the track same as my home layout ahahahaha
Never take a Bulleid anywhere near hills!
Please say your just joking 🤨
Looks a lovely day... when was this?
I think around 2018? Cheers!
Bulled Pacific's where infamous for their lack of adhesion, probably due to the lack of adhesive weight, well they where termed as Light Pacific's.
Just an observation, at 8:44 there are 2 members of the public standing at the bottom of the ramp at the end of the platform. I happen to know that once you step onto the ramp, you are deemed as being "On the Track", and that is a big no no for the general public.
But no harm done so no issue. In the old days, health and safety was not as mad as it is nowadays!
Couldn't the 'banker' have not given up quite to quickly?
I would leave a couple of comments about loading and frantic arm waving by staff as signals to crew, but, since it a video from a few years ago, there does not seem much point!
Noticeable lack of any customer communication whilst the staff there were running about cluelessly. 😟
I wasn't on the train, as I assume you weren't, so I don't know, but there may well have been a member of staff on the train informing passengers of the situation. It's easy to throw brickbats when not in full possession of the facts. I'm just very grateful to all the volunteers who keep heritage railways operating for my, and millions of other peoples, pleasure.
It's an enthusiast line, I can't imagine for one second any one of those passengers was anything less than interested and excited at the unfolding drama. It's a talking point hence us all here now and to have witnessed it firsthand must have been great
Oh fer fffff😅
Someone gets his daily exercise by running up and down the train 😂😂😂
Bulleids are useless on curved, incline starts. Keighley should know this 34092 lived there for decades
This could have been an act of sabotage caused by someone deliberately putting vaseline or some other greasey substance on the rails in the dead of night when no one was looking knowing that the City of wells has such a notorious record for slipping then watching the drama unfold from a safe distance killing themselves with laughter! as it does not take much to bring the city of wells to her knees.As a relative of the legendary " MALLARD" gid she herself suffer from the same issue?
So which carriage had the brake problem ?
🤔
Train too heavy for the prevailing conditions?
When was it filmed?
About 2018, (my memory is not that good anymore!) cheers!
Thats why they used bankers going across the Downs back inthe day
Maybe I'm missing something but the curve and gradient haven't suddenly appeared out of nowhere. By the same token the characteristics of the Bulleid light pacifics are well known. Is it beyond the wit of the KWVR to organise things so that locos are allocated to trains they can actually manage? Even on a heritage railway a delay of more than an hour because they are asking a locomotive to do the physically impossible is a piece of nonsense.
So do I yes
That is what the sand is for
Did the problem get found?
I never found out, I presume it would have been sticky brakes. Cheers!
A far more likely reason is damp sand even in summer it can be an issue, coming out of the curve on platform 4 at the K&WVR is not easy and sanding really helps traction.
Its obvious the crew on the City of Wells doesn't know how to operate the locomotive
I think your comment is a bit harsh.
Bulleids were bult for speed, not traction to pull weight and around tight, incline bends
What is clear is, is that there was no form of any information for the passengers.
Again, no station pilot to give it a push out?
What is going on at Keighley Station let me know please
Maintenance work. Should reopen today Saturday 2 March.
I know this comment maybe offensive but I have never understood why sand is not used for traction in England, on the other side of the world AUSTRALIA we would have done the following if we experienced a difficult start from a terminal station that had a tight curve & a stiff grade, the loco crew would sand coming down to couple onto the train, I am aware this loco is light footed based on what I have seen & read about them over the years, I also wondered why the bank engine that got the whole show moving why it didn't keep pushing till it cleared the gradient, or is there some safe working issue to deal with that does not allow this type of train movement?
we do , all steam engines Have sanders that I know of maybe they ran out
@@tomlawson8216 I am aware that due to steam loco's in England not have air brakes they used steam to clean the track which also collected & discharged the sand as well ,I knew an ex BR Fireman here who told me they used steam as a sander, I noticed on this video steam appearing around the front driving wheel, so I did a bit of investigation & you are correct the loco's do have sand box, so it was ever empty or the sand had became wet & caused a blockage in the delivery pipe.
Typical southern rubbish!! An hour to get out of the station! A gwr manor castle hall would of walked that train out of there with not one slip, even with pushes spam can didnt want to go!! All those merchant navy and west countrys should of stayed in barry!! How the hell they run express passenger services, and kept to time ill never know!!
Is that just a comment from ignorance or just jealousy? Tangmere has out perfomed all of the Western locos, on Western terrtory.
czcams.com/video/Vsab1OhIJcc/video.htmlfeature=shared
A 9F would have shifted anything
Yes, but sorry, it CAN be helped! This seems to be a fairly frequent occurrence at Keighley, not solely involving the Bullied, and reflects very badly on the Traffic Manager of the KWVR. 1hr 10mins delay - totally unacceptable. Given the gradient and the chosen train weight one would have thought that correct motive power calculations would be a start, a regular banker or double-heading a secondary, and acted upon QUICKLY. If it was a brake issue then maintenance comes into question too. Not all passengers will be pleased with such lack of foresight. It will have left many with a very bad experience, particularly families with small children who may have travelled a distance to be there. A lot of passengers will be seriously unimpressed and a sad reflection on all heritage railways.
Well you got two for the price of one so must,nt grumble
👍
Put some sand down.
I wonder if some of the carriage brakes were dragging? There’s no real reason why the Bullied should have such a problem starting the train.
On the contrary; even Bulleid's 'Merchant Navy' class engines were notorious for slipping to a stand, and his 'West Country/Battle of Britain' class was even worse. They had a toxic combination of two problems, BOTH down to Bulleid's ego-tripping; first, that bloody awful 'valve gear in an oilbath' set-up, which constantly leaked oil over the wheels and brake blocks; second, his even worse 'chain driven valve gear', which was tricky enough to deal with, even brand new, but was a hair-trigger disaster as soon as it had any wear. Suffice it to say that Bulleid contacted Renold's Chains to enquire about using chains to drive the valve gear, as was and is done in many car and truck engines. Part way through the conversation, Renold's man realised the chains would have to work in both directions, and assured Bulleid that it would NEVER work accurately. But Bulleid knew best (as always) and fitted it anyway. In a very short time, Renold's man was proved right, so what did Bulleid do? He went and built *hundreds MORE* of the bloody things, all with the same faults!
Not without reason did a senior loco manager on the Southern Railway refer to those classes as "the Chief Mechanical Engineer's clockwork mice!"
@@jackx4311 I am certain
I agree with what you say. I am certainly no fan of Bulleid’s unmodified 4-6-2s, but in support of the design I should say that I once had a conversation with the chief mechanical engineer at the York National Rail Museum and he said that, in theory, Bullied’s design of valve gear and the oil both were both excellent ideas. It was putting them into practice that caused the problems! What I was referring to in my original comment when I said the loco should have had no problem starting the train away from Keighley was that it was only hauling five carriages. A medium sized tank engine would have handled that load with no problem. What we don’t know is were the brakes dragging, was the driver inexperienced in handling a Bullied Pacific, was the loco priming? The situation seems to have been cause by two problems. First, the loco may have been stopped in ‘dead centre’ (inexperienced driver?), and then when it was given a push it developed a serious slipping problem.
I'm with both Jackx and Gareth on SR Pacific's never know how they ever kept time 😂😂😂
But just quickly on your point Gareth, I'm almost 99.9% certain that a 3 cyl can't stop at T.D.C. unlike 2 cyls engines.
Well then, here’s me thinking it was because it was a Saturday that caused all the issues!🤪😜🤣😂
Seriously, I bow to all you chaps with the knowledge!
Me?
Not a clue about any of it, it’s probably cos I’m short, but I do my best!!!!!
You are right. I had't thought about that!
@@Geo46115
They should know by now not to haul carriages of that length out of the station without two engines
Tipical southern locos LOL
Don't talk BOLLOX. You mean typical *BULLEID* locos.
@@jackx4311you mean absolutely bollocks, as it a Pacific loco thing, not just Bulleids.
I’m sorry but the way this was handled was pathetic and completely embarrassing?!! Why didn’t the loco on the back just keep pushing your train up and around the bend and wait till you were on the level track then back off when the train was ok to go on by itself?? Can not believe the way it was handled 🙄🙄🤨🤨 I mean that’s all they had to do?!!
a'll I can see is coaches. No engine
プッシングでしか運行出来ないなんて何も考えて無いんですね、だから定時運行できないんではないですかね。
Typical from this kind of misleadingly video, all the Bulleid haters crawl out of the woodwork 😂.
This locomotive didn't earn the nickname "The Volcano" for not struggling on gradients.
34092 was based at tbe KWVR for 10 years and made this start away countless times, along with a hugely successful mainline career on the Settle & Carlisle.
To watch this video and claim that its a problem all the time, is extremely ignorant of reality.
Any other video of this locomotive on this railway or on the NYMR, shows what it is actually capable of.
This comment section is the side of the hobby that's depressing. No facts, just hate😢
The fact is that this class of loco is notorious for slipping! Why deny reality?
And it was nicknamed the volcano due to the prodigious quantities of clag (i.e. unburnt fuel) that it emitted.
@@andrewhotston983 only notorious by people who ignore all the other Pacific's.
Yes it did get it's nickname by producing spectacular exhaust plumes, which it did climbing over the S&C.
Wells had no trouble on the NYMR with the heavy Dining train.
czcams.com/video/CaCTS5tAUQ0/video.htmlsi=uqCpORQIEGMz3RVM
People really have it in for Bulleids, for absolutely no reason.
@@04clemea So all the other comments, books etc are wrong, just because you found one CZcams video of a Light Pacific climbing a gradient without slipping?
Hmmm...
@@andrewhotston983 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, there's a lot of people playing to the stereotype that all Bulleids slip constantly and can't climb hills. When it's been clearly demonstrated multiple times, buy Wells or Tangmere or Clan Line or British India Line or Taw Valley, that they are no different to other Pacific's.
A quick dig through archive footage of King's Cross and you'll see A1's, A2's, A3's, A4's, Brits..etc. slipping.
Generally speaking from personal opinion, I think it's the fact that we have so many Bulleids running in preservation, that you would find it easier to point out that they slip "more". It's not because they do, but because there's more of them to point out.
Here's a great example of Tangmere having a small slip as it takes the load, then it's gets clean departure and accelerating without slipping at all.
czcams.com/video/o8L980VRDKo/video.htmlsi=poSWAmsci3CNAQYZ
Was riding behind Manston the other week at the Mid Hants and climbing the 1in60 gradients no trouble what so ever and in the middle of a massive rain storm.
too bigger load for that old tin can. Need a GWR engine for that . Also second time in as many weeks dont they learn things ?
The reason was the steep incline...too steep for a steam engine. Do you think if you got the fat ladies off the train, it would have made the climb?
Typical Bulleid Pacific. When hauling a load, some of the weight is transferred to the rear non-driving axle under the firebox. This reduces adhesion. A 4-6-0 would have a better grip. It's why the GWR did not have Pacifics.
"fat ladies " - what about the fat blokes?
It always amuses me that you Brits seem to think that a 1 in 49 curving gradient is like the north face of Everest in railway terms and yet 1 in 49 is NOT that steep and 34092 has been based on the railway for years. What if the KWVR was 1 in 49 from Keighley to Oxenhope.
Here down under we're used to steep gradients on Mainlines and here's one where even diesels are down on their "hands and knees" struggling to climb this particular gradient which like the KWVR is 5 miles in length but with a ruling gradient of 1 in 40 the whole way. Where the gradient steepens to 1 in 35 the steam loco is heard to slow. She's hauling one bogie water tank and six coaches on her own. She does get a run at the grade but momentum soon runs out and it's a slog to the top. Enjoy a REAL gradient run with a superbly handled engine.
czcams.com/video/xeWhlVYfQq8/video.htmlsi=H47H5-M-hXWADM1S
That's Bullieds for you. Great boiler, crap engine.
Oh, so that's why the 600t pullman train is in the hands of a Bulleid Pacific then?
Typical southern bit of junk should use proper engines in the first place how very embarresing for the driver also