Just got a mackie 24.8. Would really like to see a video with how to hook it up using a patchbay. Love these videos man. You are the only one on the tube with clarity for the new comers to analog with full details. Keep em coming.
I just spent 3 months restoring a large analog console, beginning my hybrid journey after being ITB for a decade. Keep up the videos they are inspiring!
Thank you! Having a console is awesome for tracking and hybrid mixing. I'm sure you'll do well and have a great time hybrid mixing with your console. Which console did you restore? I am actually working on a 4 part series about Hybrid Mixing so those will coming soon with some other things in between.
@@TwinCreekAudio peavey amr 800. 24 channels 8 sub groups, 4 auxes, 4 fx sends. Total sleeper console. The peavey badge drops it's value but it's made 100% by amr and had former API engineers on the design team. Fully balanced with by my count 48 channels at mix down. Fully modular so I did it a few channels at a time. Everything but some Vu meters and 1 sub group channel is working. It was about 100hrs of work it was covered in dirt, grime, and nicotine lol weights like 300lbs
@@TwinCreekAudio I look forward to the series. I have next to no outboard gear currently, just a dbx118 and an art FX unit so I might be doing some vids after I get some comps for busses
@@MrNEWDY those are really good consoles. I've never used one myself but I have heard a lot of good things about them over the years. It's also the perfect vintage for something reliable and modern but still all analog. The AMR consoles were made at a time when analog technology had already matured and the gear was quieter and more reliable. I think that is going to be a great console with all the work you've put into it.
@@TwinCreekAudio yeah I did some testing and stock with midi commander disabled and sub groups and sends off at unity the console maintains around -100 to -115 self noise and with groups enabled stays under 90-100db self noise. Sending master section to Jim Williams soon to have the summing redone and the monitoring all rebuilt then noise floor should be far lower and summing a bit punchier.
I started with analog and went ITB way back in the early 2000's. I decided to go hybrid in 2018 and have never gone back to fully ITB. The sounds of analog console and 500 series outboard gear is amazing. I started with a Soundcraft Spirit LX7 (24 channels-4 Subs), but really wanted more channels and subs. I came across a nearly new A&H GL-2800 32 channel (it also came with 2 power supplies) that I picked up for $400. Added patchbays, and a second 500 series rack with 4 Trident EQ's, dual SSL EQ's and Compressors, plus a host of other EQ's, compressors, and effects, plus some vintage rack mount reverb and delays, and it beats almost all plugins.
I agree and it sounds like you have set yourself up very well for hybrid work. I find it's faster and easier to get a good sounding mix with analog gear as well as being more hands on and spontaneous.
Thank you! I've made quite a few videos about analog gear and techniques and I really hope they are useful. Analog is my thing and I love the sound and workflow.
I’ve been watching your videos about analog gear and mixing since last year and I actually learned alot from you. I was able to build a hybrid mixing set up for less which works well with my mixing style. Keep it up and I hope you get more subs and support on your channel
Awesome video, man! You're a great teacher and even better engineer. I've been looking for a video that week explains exactly this. Very informative. Loving the tunes too! Thank you.
Thank you! It's the way I've tried to work since at least 2008 coming from analog tape and ADATs and stuff before that. I still like using a console and analog gear a lot.
sooooo helpful!! Just subscribed! I'm new to the analog console domain. I have several analog compressors and eq's ( neve 8803 , api 5500, neve spx 1073 , purple audio mc77 dbx 160x - etc.. ). Just purchased a midas board that should be arriving by the end of the week. I may have to refer back to this channel for help routing everything. Great job!
Thank you! I'm really glad the video is helpful. I have a lot of videos on the channel covering hybrid studio setup and work flow with more planned. I'm also happy to answer any questions. I do my best to check all the comments and answer every one I can. You have some nice gear and I'm sure you'll enjoy getting more use out of the analog gear once you start using the Midas. I used to have a Venice F24 and it was awesome! Great sound and features! I have a video coming about tracking with a console and a series on hybrid mixing. Thanks again!!!
Thank you! I think there are around 217 videos on my channel now and I try to make at least one new video a week. I don't do any paid promotions. When I show different gear videos, they are about things I already have or things Ive purchased myself to make the video and then use in my studio. Thanks so much for your comment!
Thank you! I mixed in the box for a long time using a console for the front end. I gradually upgraded my studio for hybrid mixing and I love it! I find it easier to get a good mix quicker this way. Thanks again!
Yes, I have worked on some electronic music projects mainly doing the final mixing and mastering. I really enjoy working on electronic music mixes. I like to mix electronic music through a lot of my analog gear and make it sound really big and professional.
Definately the best video ive seen on analogue mixing, subbed! Will check out your other videos on analogue desks! I got a couple of questions still! Should you always keep the master fader at 0 on mixing consoles? Whats the maximum level a full mix should peak at on the master channel or should you always try to keep the full mix peaking around 0db? Im using pfl button to set the gain on each channel to hit around 0, but if i do some additive eq on a channel the volume level increases should i then re adjust the gain lower with pfl engaged to have the channel peak around 0 again? What are your thougts on these topics? Im mixing fully analog on a soundcraft delta desk! Thanks in advance!
Analog and digital levels can be thought of differently. Digital -18 dbfs is the same as 0VU. I find that analog gear has much more apparent headroom than digital. You can push an analog console a bit more as they are more forgiving and don't hard clip above O. The thing to watch when mixing hybrid style is the final output level of the console going back into the audio interface inputs does not get above the level the audio interface can handle. I don't really have to watch these things when using my console as it seems to come out OK without a lot of calculation. Of course this depends on the console but the Delta should have plenty of headroom. I usually keep my master fader at 0 but on rare occasions I have pulled it back a little degradation to the mix. I usually end up with a final print from analog that's much lower than summing in the box and leaves headroom for mastering. With the analog gear, I seem to be able to push everything as much as I want and still have headroom left on the master bus. It's early here but I'll try to come up with more information for you soon. This is an interesting discussion. Thank you!
Man I love the way you explain things, very detailed! I appreciate your videos. I have an Allen and Heath GL2400 and I'm currently trying to wrap my head around the setup for recording and mixing. I have 2 interfaces for maximum I/O...MIC pres and three patch bays. The recording is pretty straightforward but the mixing set up confuses me a bit, especially when effects are introduced. Do you have any experience with the Allen and Heath GL2400? If so, how would you suggest I route things for a seamless recording and mixing set up?
Thank you! I haven't used that particular model before but you should be able to use the line inputs to mix through the console. If you have a large number of channels you can use the lower numbers for sending to interfaces and the higher numbers for mixing back through the console. You can also use the subgroups to send groups of things to the interfaces or for things like parallel compression when mixing. Good luck and let me know how it goes and if you have any other issues or questions. Thanks again!
@@TwinCreekAudio hey man! I got the Allen and Heath all set up and running finally and it sounds great. My issue now is the pan moves I make are not recording into the DAW. Can you record pan moves into your DAW with am analog console?
@@natcoziay sure, you should be able to do that. Connect audio interface outputs to tape inputs and set the chennel to tape, then record the master outs back to a pair of interface inputs. Best of luck and let me know if I can help more.
I have 4or 5 different interfaces but the main ones for this video were Echo Audiofire 12s. I have 2 linked for 24I/O. I also have a MOTU 828, am Audiofire 8, and Audient EVO interfaces. The types of videos I make sometimes require more than one multichannel DAW rig running.
Hey Grady! I hope all is well with you! Quick question about my analog Mackie 32-8 Bus console.,Let’s say I don’t have an outboard EQ on the Main Mix Out/Inserts. Could I run back into two channels, and use the EQ on the Channels as the two Buss EQ? If so, what’s the best way to do that, and where would I put my two buss compressor in that scenario?
You could patch the master insert sends L and R to the line inputs if a pair of channels and use the channel direct outs to connect back to the master inserts return. You can put the compressor either before or after the EQ in the chain depending on your preference. Don't assign the channels you use to the buses or LR mix at all. This will work but there could be some crosstalk or other issues. You can certainly try it and see how it works.
@@TwinCreekAudio Wow! Thanks Grady! I’ll definitely give this method a try, and after I commented here, I was also thinking this other method of taking the main mix out of the 8-Buss, and into two channels of my Mackie 1640i, (which I use as the interface)putting the two Bus Compressor in the main mix inserts of the 1640i, and use main out of the 1640i to go into a tape machine. That way possibly crosstalk, and noise could be avoided. Do you think my idea is good ? Again, I thought of that after sending you this question. Lol
@@The-Jim-Miller-Project you could also patch the compressor between the 8 Bus main LR outs and the 1640i inputs. Either way might work but the best way is to try different ways until you're happy with the workflow and sound.
@@TwinCreekAudio I truly appreciate you my friend! I hope all is well, and have a great 4th holiday. Looking forward to seeing more of your excellent vids! Thank you again Grady!
Thank you! I'm running Reaper with the House of White Tie Imperial theme which is why it's hard to tell. I love the way Reaper works and how the theme looks.
Soundcraft aren't too difficult to find parts for since they are still in business. For older Soundcraft consoles there is Creation Audio Labs in Nashville. The Ghosts seem to have a lot of issues with the control room pot and the headphone jack but are otherwise reliable and well-built.
Has anyone used a Soundcraft K2 for this type of set up and would they be ok for recording/mixing. These were typically used for live sound and was thinking of getting one I saw for sale.
I haven't tried one but they should work fine for hybrid mixing. They don't have the Dual signal path of studio consoles( no tape returns) but they would be easy to use for mixing using the line inputs to the main channels. There are enough channels on the console, you can use some for sending to the recording device and some for monitoring back from the recording device etc.
I am sorry if you covered this in another video already, but could you explain how the inserts are wired to the patch bay for a more "Permanent" setup? Are the TRS to TS cables unbalanced connections? Also, how are the send and return wired into the patch bay? Does a normal setup work so that the send and return loop back untouched or do you use half or through? Sorry, I am just doing research on this as I like the idea of using a mixer for mixing the tracks and would like to use inserts in an effective way without going back and forth from the desk. Thanks!
Glad to help. I may have covered some of this in previous videos but I've made almost 300 so I forget. If your console has TRS inserts then you would use an insert cable that goes from a single TRS for the console side and 2 TS to go to the patchbay with the insert send above the return on the pay. Ideally you'd want these half normalled so you can use the insert send for other uses such as a direct out from the pre while keeping the signal flowing to the insert return. Normalled would also work if you don't plan to use the insert send for anything other than normal insert duties. I hope this helps and let me know if you have further questions. Thanks!
@@TwinCreekAudio Is the patchbay balanced? Any "noise" with TS send and receive while using balanced connections for outboard gear or are the cables short enough where this is a non-issue? Thanks again 🙂
@@AntmanFelix usually when the inserts are on TRS they are unbalanced on the TS end and even the TRS connection is unbalanced with TIP and Ring also being unbalanced connections on the same TRS jack. This can be confusing as some equipment uses tip for send and ring for return while others are backwards. I have not had any issues with noise as long as there's good cable management and decent quality cables with shorter lengths.
@@TwinCreekAudio Awesome thanks a bunch! I been reading a lot of different information and got confused thus I appreciate the clarification and your experience. This helped a lot!
thax for sharing ..but from where didi u connect yr studio monitor like yamaha Hs5 if u use yr console main outs (left and right) to send yr mixes back to yr interface for print track.
The console has 2 sets of control room monitor outputs. Since I mix hybrid a lot, it works perfectly for me. I can also use pair of channels for the stereo playback from the DAW and still monitor through the console.
I stopped using the soundtracs Topaz for most of my mixing work whenever I acquired the soundcraft. I used the Topaz for the video because it has the type of connections that you can see whereas the soundcraft has all EDAC connectors so there would have been no way to show the individual connections in the video. In other words I used the Topaz for this example because it is simpler to set up than the other large console in my studio. I have not owned the Topaz in over a year though I kept it for several years after acquiring the soundcraft as a backup. I have never used a Jade of any kind in any of the videos. The Topaz and Soundcraft Sapphyre are the 2 console I think you are referring to.
If I only have 8 ins/outs on my interface can I send my final mix from the DAW out to my analog mixer and send back to the DAW and then download to an mp3? Would that accomplish a similar result? Im trying to utilize my 24 channel mixer in some compacity. thx
Yes, you can run 8 channels out of the interface and into the console, then record the master outputs back into 2 channels on the interface for a stereo Mixdown. You can also send just the 2 main channels out to the mixer and back the same way, but using 2 audio interface outputs to the console and then record the master outputs back into the audio interface. If you had an interface with more I/O, you could expand on this idea and run more individual channels out through the mixer. If your mixer has tape inputs and is inline design, you can connect 24 inputs and outputs to the channels and tape returns like I describe in several videos. If your console doesn't have any tape inputs, you can use 1-8 or 1-16 as send channels and the rest as returns from the DAW. Best of luck and let me know how it goes.
Well I have an Allen Heath GL3300. I’m struggling to hook up my outboard compressor and a sonic maximizer. This console doesn’t have a dedicated master far as I can see. So I don’t know how and where to hook up the compressor before I send the audio back in to Reaper.
The channels should have inserts so you could use a pair of channels. I think that console was designed for live sound or theater. Does it have a matrix section? It can still be used for recording and mixing. The workflow might not as straightforward but it will work.
I've got a question with regards to the subgroups. Whenever I assign my drums to group 1 and 2 and remove them from main L R, my output for the group is low. I have to push that group fader way up. Do you know what is going on here? Am I not hitting it hard enough on the way in from my daw or not turning up the individual channel faders enough? When I solo the group it is loud enough... trying to figure out what I am missing. BTW you were right a few vids back when I asked about combining plugin eq with console eq. I shape it with the board and if I need a cut or something specific, something like fab filter or other precision eq gets me what I need. I adjust what i need from the plug that then feeds the board and board eq. This truly hybrid approach is fantastic rather than spending thousands on outboard hardware. ( which I don't have) lately when I have had money. It goes towards hardware compressors. I still feel compression and summing is best done with hardware.
Do you have anything connected to the subgroup inserts on 1 and 2? If so, you may need to adjust the output level or makeup gain. If you are purely using the subgroups to groups things for control in the mix, then it could be the channel fader level or level coming into the console inputs that is too low. I will often use the DAW faders to push the console inputs a little harder. Let me know what results that gives you.
@@TwinCreekAudio hoping to try it out later and report back. As far as I can tell I am driving the (kick anyway) into the orange on the meter. It just doesn't make sense to me that a submix would be lower volume if I A/B the group to the main LR. I do notice when I push the line level up on the incoming signal from my DAW, it does go up in the subgroup 1/2 group. So I am guessing that I either get it up in the DAW or I push the line input gain up so that I consistently get all signals into high green/orange on my meter. I am guessing this would also allow the board to do what consoles do best. Oh, and nothing connected to sub group yet. I am going to be sending 1/2 out to a stereo comp for parallel compression once i get this figured out and then back in on two spare channels. The Ramsa doesn't have inserts on the groups unfortunately. Have to get creative on how i group and send channels to the 20 channels on the board. 8 groups at least. It can be challenging but fun to find solutions in hybrid while committing.
thank you for this video, you have a great way of explaining things! I‘m starting to plan my move towards mixing outside the box but I‘m struggling to find audio interfaces with enough IO that would allow a 24 channel console. The only setup I was able to come up with so far would be to use a rme digiface usb and then connect a ferrofish pulse 16 and another interface to it with some more ins and outs. But 1. that‘s too expensive for me atm, 2. I do like the controls, ins and outs etc my current interface (arturia audiofuse studio) gives me. Do you have any gear recommendations, tips etc. to solve my issue and come up with a affordable good solution to connect the desk to the computer? Cheers from Switzerland, Sam
The RME Digiface and Ferrofish was exactly the setup I've been thinking of upgrading to. I cant afford to do that right now either so I'm still using 2 Echo Audiofire 12s. They sound good and the control panel allows them to work like a tape machine when tracking. The input passes to the output and back to the console with no latency which is great for tracking bands. These are older FireWire interfaces so I will definitely need to replace them before the drivers are no longer supported. The other option would be the MOTU 16a and then an additional optical interface which could be something as inexpensive as the Behringer ADA8200. I'm still considering options like these and I'll definitely make a video when I eventually upgrade things here. Thanks so much for your comment!
@@TwinCreekAudio Thank you for your quick and helpful response! I didn't know the MOTU 16a, looks good but also a bit on the expensive side;) Looking forward to your video! What do you think about the Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK for mixing outside the box? It seems very popular, and disregarding my love for vintage gear, newer devices also have their pros. Do you know if there is a difference to the sound if you pass it through single ins and outs of an interface or, like it would be the case in the soundcraft signature, if you have all channels come through a USB cable into the mixer and then take the stereo out of the mixer back into your DAW? I mean it shouldn't make a difference, right? All the channels have to go through a USB cable anyways to reach your interface. I do like the idea of a vintage console but my first priority is to have a nice analogue sound and if I can achieve that through cheaper means with the signature 22 mtk that could be a great option. What do you think? Do you think it's still worth it to go for vintage consoles?
@@samuelbrunner I have not tried the MTK 22 myself but I hear good things about them. They have the Ghost preamps and the Sapphyre EQ. I can confirm the Sapphyre EQ is very very good. I used to own a Ghost as well and really liked it. I'd say the MTK 22 is about the best choice on the market today for the price.
Do you ever use balanced Y leads? Is there any benefit to using those. where you have a TRS 1/4 inch on all three jacks rather than one TRS and two TS?
That's a great question. The Topaz TRS inserts are unbalanced with sleeve ground and tip of TRS for send and ring for receive(a lot of console are the opposite of this with ring being the send and tip the return. There would be no benefit since the consoles inserts are unbalanced. The Soundcraft Sapphyre has balanced inserts but these have a separate send and return connection and both are balanced TRS on TT/bantam connections. Many mixing console use these unbalanced TRS connectors for inserts and it really isn't a problem unless the cables connecting them to other equipment are really long. I think a balanced insert on one jack would have to be TRRS in order to be able to use balanced connections as you need 3 connections for each balanced connections. Standard TRS inserts have a ground and a send and receive on 3 connections where the send and receive share the audio ground. Most of my rack gear is balanced but works well with either balanced or unbalanced connections with no problems. If the console has separate connections for insert send and receive, it may have balanced inserts though many older mixers that have separate send and receive are still unbalanced inserts with 2 connections instead if a single TRS insert. Best way to know for sure if to check the manual and specs of the console to make sure. Thank you so much for your comment. I hope my answer helps.
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the response. THe manual is actually what created the question for me. I am just getting started with an analog mixer and maybe I shouldn't be reading the manual late at night. I just found it odd that in some cases it called for normal unbalanced insert cables and in other cases it calls for the balanced cables for example on the Aux outputs. Great videos, I am enjoying the analog content.
There's another video with information on how to track with an analog console I made that probably answers that question better than I can in a comment. czcams.com/video/qEjg7h9iOqE/video.html Hopefully that will help and let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!
Hey again. So I just got my hands on a Carvin mx 1688 mixer/console. I’m having trouble with connecting my monitors to it. Also on the console, should I connect the outputs of the master section to the inputs on my interface, in order to be able to hear playback?
The Carvin MX1688 should have monitor outputs that you would connect to a set of powered monitors or an amp. I had a MX2488 and it had the control room levels on faders which is super cool! Then you'd connect the output of your audio interface to the 8 tape inputs or however many you need for your audio interface. These are in a separate section above the subgroups and have their own faders, pan etc. They also route to the first 8 main channels automatically when you switch them to line mode IIRC. If you have more than 8 outputs you want to connect, you would connect those to the line inputs. Then you need to assign the channels to go somewhere like the main LR or subgroups. I can't remember how the monitor section works other than those 8 inputs route to the main channels when switched to line with nothing else plugged into them. You might see if you can locate a manual as they might provide more information. It has been years since I owned the Carvin MX2488. Long before I started the CZcams channel. I hope that helps and good luck!
@@TwinCreekAudio gotcha. So my board does have control room inputs along with the faders, would I plug in my monitors to that? Then from there how would I get that signal into the daw?
@@jackmmarsden you need to have outputs from the console to plug into inputs on your interface. This video mostly covers mixing but I made another one that show how to setup for recording. Your should plug your monitors into the consoles monitor outputs. That is if they are powers monitors that have amps, otherwise the monitor outlets from the console would plug into the inputs of an amp and the amp would connect to speakers or monitors. Here is the link the other video: czcams.com/video/qEjg7h9iOqE/video.html The idea is that you have main channels for tracking things through to tape in the past and now audio interface inputs to DAW. Then a recording console will have additional tape inputs and either a separate monitor mix section for the tape inputs(aka split console) or integrated into the main channels(inline console like a Mackie 8 bus or Ghost). This was for independence so your levels to the recording device don't change if you change the monitor mix the musicians or engineer are hearing. It's a whole world of signal flow with analog equipment you need to do know to do this properly. I have a lot of videos about this with different consoles if you search the channel videos.
@@jackmmarsden Thank you and good luck! Hopefully some of the videos will help. I'm pretty sure Carvin has the manual for your console and it might include some setup diagrams. Just substitute your audio interface for the tape machine in the diagrams. cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0476/5297/files/MX2488.pdf?1775
Just got a mackie 24.8. Would really like to see a video with how to hook it up using a patchbay. Love these videos man. You are the only one on the tube with clarity for the new comers to analog with full details. Keep em coming.
It's a good console. I'm in the process of moving my studio. Hopefully I'll be able to make more videos with the Mackie 8 Bus after the move.
I just spent 3 months restoring a large analog console, beginning my hybrid journey after being ITB for a decade. Keep up the videos they are inspiring!
Thank you! Having a console is awesome for tracking and hybrid mixing. I'm sure you'll do well and have a great time hybrid mixing with your console. Which console did you restore? I am actually working on a 4 part series about Hybrid Mixing so those will coming soon with some other things in between.
@@TwinCreekAudio peavey amr 800. 24 channels 8 sub groups, 4 auxes, 4 fx sends. Total sleeper console. The peavey badge drops it's value but it's made 100% by amr and had former API engineers on the design team. Fully balanced with by my count 48 channels at mix down. Fully modular so I did it a few channels at a time. Everything but some Vu meters and 1 sub group channel is working. It was about 100hrs of work it was covered in dirt, grime, and nicotine lol weights like 300lbs
@@TwinCreekAudio I look forward to the series. I have next to no outboard gear currently, just a dbx118 and an art FX unit so I might be doing some vids after I get some comps for busses
@@MrNEWDY those are really good consoles. I've never used one myself but I have heard a lot of good things about them over the years. It's also the perfect vintage for something reliable and modern but still all analog. The AMR consoles were made at a time when analog technology had already matured and the gear was quieter and more reliable. I think that is going to be a great console with all the work you've put into it.
@@TwinCreekAudio yeah I did some testing and stock with midi commander disabled and sub groups and sends off at unity the console maintains around -100 to -115 self noise and with groups enabled stays under 90-100db self noise. Sending master section to Jim Williams soon to have the summing redone and the monitoring all rebuilt then noise floor should be far lower and summing a bit punchier.
I started with analog and went ITB way back in the early 2000's. I decided to go hybrid in 2018 and have never gone back to fully ITB. The sounds of analog console and 500 series outboard gear is amazing. I started with a Soundcraft Spirit LX7 (24 channels-4 Subs), but really wanted more channels and subs. I came across a nearly new A&H GL-2800 32 channel (it also came with 2 power supplies) that I picked up for $400. Added patchbays, and a second 500 series rack with 4 Trident EQ's, dual SSL EQ's and Compressors, plus a host of other EQ's, compressors, and effects, plus some vintage rack mount reverb and delays, and it beats almost all plugins.
I agree and it sounds like you have set yourself up very well for hybrid work. I find it's faster and easier to get a good sounding mix with analog gear as well as being more hands on and spontaneous.
This was the best description of how and where things should go on the analog console. I’m still confused but I have a good basis to start
I'm glad the video helped. I answer as many questions as I can in the comments so let me know if you have any questions. Thanks!
I don't know crap about analog consoles but I feel like I'm not so ignorant any longer. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. Really interesting.
Thank you! I've made quite a few videos about analog gear and techniques and I really hope they are useful. Analog is my thing and I love the sound and workflow.
I’ve been watching your videos about analog gear and mixing since last year and I actually learned alot from you. I was able to build a hybrid mixing set up for less which works well with my mixing style. Keep it up and I hope you get more subs and support on your channel
Thank you! That's very cool. I hope you enjoy your new hybrid setup!
Awesome video, man! You're a great teacher and even better engineer. I've been looking for a video that week explains exactly this. Very informative. Loving the tunes too! Thank you.
Thank you! It's the way I've tried to work since at least 2008 coming from analog tape and ADATs and stuff before that. I still like using a console and analog gear a lot.
sooooo helpful!! Just subscribed! I'm new to the analog console domain. I have several analog compressors and eq's ( neve 8803 , api 5500, neve spx 1073 , purple audio mc77 dbx 160x - etc.. ). Just purchased a midas board that should be arriving by the end of the week. I may have to refer back to this channel for help routing everything. Great job!
Thank you! I'm really glad the video is helpful. I have a lot of videos on the channel covering hybrid studio setup and work flow with more planned. I'm also happy to answer any questions. I do my best to check all the comments and answer every one I can. You have some nice gear and I'm sure you'll enjoy getting more use out of the analog gear once you start using the Midas. I used to have a Venice F24 and it was awesome! Great sound and features! I have a video coming about tracking with a console and a series on hybrid mixing. Thanks again!!!
Sir it's very simple to understand u r really doing a great job thank you for the vedio 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you! I'm very glad the video is helpful. I hope to make more about this soon.
Thanks for the great info❤it
I've made quite a few videos about hybrid mixing and analog gear. I'm glad you are finding them useful. Thanks for watching!
This is gold man.. awesome stuff !!
Thank you!
Thanks a lot, yet again: much appreciated.
Thank you! And thanks so much for watching.
Thanks bro great videos can you do more it’s real that’s what I like no promotions
Thank you! I think there are around 217 videos on my channel now and I try to make at least one new video a week. I don't do any paid promotions. When I show different gear videos, they are about things I already have or things Ive purchased myself to make the video and then use in my studio. Thanks so much for your comment!
Wow, great video... And the analog mixes are greatly prefered by myself, sound more like music. Digital was much more pokey and not so warm and glued.
Thank you! I mixed in the box for a long time using a console for the front end. I gradually upgraded my studio for hybrid mixing and I love it! I find it easier to get a good mix quicker this way. Thanks again!
Very useful information, Thanks Sir.
Thank you. I really enjoy making the videos and I'm glad you found this one useful. 😎
best teacher forever
Thank you! I hope to make more videos like this soon.
❤ this . This channel is my type of bag. Plus you're so easy to listen too, so inviting. Do you record electronic music?
Yes, I have worked on some electronic music projects mainly doing the final mixing and mastering. I really enjoy working on electronic music mixes. I like to mix electronic music through a lot of my analog gear and make it sound really big and professional.
Definately the best video ive seen on analogue mixing, subbed! Will check out your other videos on analogue desks! I got a couple of questions still! Should you always keep the master fader at 0 on mixing consoles? Whats the maximum level a full mix should peak at on the master channel or should you always try to keep the full mix peaking around 0db? Im using pfl button to set the gain on each channel to hit around 0, but if i do some additive eq on a channel the volume level increases should i then re adjust the gain lower with pfl engaged to have the channel peak around 0 again? What are your thougts on these topics? Im mixing fully analog on a soundcraft delta desk! Thanks in advance!
Analog and digital levels can be thought of differently. Digital -18 dbfs is the same as 0VU. I find that analog gear has much more apparent headroom than digital. You can push an analog console a bit more as they are more forgiving and don't hard clip above O. The thing to watch when mixing hybrid style is the final output level of the console going back into the audio interface inputs does not get above the level the audio interface can handle. I don't really have to watch these things when using my console as it seems to come out OK without a lot of calculation. Of course this depends on the console but the Delta should have plenty of headroom. I usually keep my master fader at 0 but on rare occasions I have pulled it back a little degradation to the mix. I usually end up with a final print from analog that's much lower than summing in the box and leaves headroom for mastering. With the analog gear, I seem to be able to push everything as much as I want and still have headroom left on the master bus. It's early here but I'll try to come up with more information for you soon. This is an interesting discussion. Thank you!
Man I love the way you explain things, very detailed! I appreciate your videos. I have an Allen and Heath GL2400 and I'm currently trying to wrap my head around the setup for recording and mixing. I have 2 interfaces for maximum I/O...MIC pres and three patch bays. The recording is pretty straightforward but the mixing set up confuses me a bit, especially when effects are introduced. Do you have any experience with the Allen and Heath GL2400? If so, how would you suggest I route things for a seamless recording and mixing set up?
Thank you! I haven't used that particular model before but you should be able to use the line inputs to mix through the console. If you have a large number of channels you can use the lower numbers for sending to interfaces and the higher numbers for mixing back through the console. You can also use the subgroups to send groups of things to the interfaces or for things like parallel compression when mixing. Good luck and let me know how it goes and if you have any other issues or questions. Thanks again!
@@TwinCreekAudio thanks bro, I appreciate the feedback.
@@TwinCreekAudio hey man! I got the Allen and Heath all set up and running finally and it sounds great. My issue now is the pan moves I make are not recording into the DAW. Can you record pan moves into your DAW with am analog console?
@@natcoziay sure, you should be able to do that. Connect audio interface outputs to tape inputs and set the chennel to tape, then record the master outs back to a pair of interface inputs. Best of luck and let me know if I can help more.
@@TwinCreekAudio man thanks for the quick response! I will let you know if I get it working.
hey, thanks for the video. it’s great. which interface do you have?
I have 4or 5 different interfaces but the main ones for this video were Echo Audiofire 12s. I have 2 linked for 24I/O. I also have a MOTU 828, am Audiofire 8, and Audient EVO interfaces. The types of videos I make sometimes require more than one multichannel DAW rig running.
thank you for ur answer. @@TwinCreekAudio
Hey Grady! I hope all is well with you! Quick question about my analog Mackie 32-8 Bus console.,Let’s say I don’t have an outboard EQ on the Main Mix Out/Inserts. Could I run back into two channels, and use the EQ on the Channels as the two Buss EQ? If so, what’s the best way to do that, and where would I put my two buss compressor in that scenario?
You could patch the master insert sends L and R to the line inputs if a pair of channels and use the channel direct outs to connect back to the master inserts return. You can put the compressor either before or after the EQ in the chain depending on your preference. Don't assign the channels you use to the buses or LR mix at all. This will work but there could be some crosstalk or other issues. You can certainly try it and see how it works.
@@TwinCreekAudio Wow! Thanks Grady! I’ll definitely give this method a try, and after I commented here, I was also thinking this other method of taking the main mix out of the 8-Buss, and into two channels of my Mackie 1640i, (which I use as the interface)putting the two Bus Compressor in the main mix inserts of the 1640i, and use main out of the 1640i to go into a tape machine. That way possibly crosstalk, and noise could be avoided. Do you think my idea is good ? Again, I thought of that after sending you this question. Lol
@@The-Jim-Miller-Project you could also patch the compressor between the 8 Bus main LR outs and the 1640i inputs. Either way might work but the best way is to try different ways until you're happy with the workflow and sound.
@@TwinCreekAudio I truly appreciate you my friend! I hope all is well, and have a great 4th holiday. Looking forward to seeing more of your excellent vids! Thank you again Grady!
hi wiht witch DAW did you recordet in the box ??
greats song
Thank you! I'm running Reaper with the House of White Tie Imperial theme which is why it's hard to tell. I love the way Reaper works and how the theme looks.
How hard will be to get parts for a SoundCraft console (Ghost) or any other SoundCraft console in your experience?
Soundcraft aren't too difficult to find parts for since they are still in business. For older Soundcraft consoles there is Creation Audio Labs in Nashville. The Ghosts seem to have a lot of issues with the control room pot and the headphone jack but are otherwise reliable and well-built.
Has anyone used a Soundcraft K2 for this type of set up and would they be ok for recording/mixing. These were typically used for live sound and was thinking of getting one I saw for sale.
I haven't tried one but they should work fine for hybrid mixing. They don't have the Dual signal path of studio consoles( no tape returns) but they would be easy to use for mixing using the line inputs to the main channels. There are enough channels on the console, you can use some for sending to the recording device and some for monitoring back from the recording device etc.
I used topaz.
I set up same like you.
The Topaz is great and Ive used it for a long time. Many albums with of music have been recorded with it and it always sounds great.
I am sorry if you covered this in another video already, but could you explain how the inserts are wired to the patch bay for a more "Permanent" setup? Are the TRS to TS cables unbalanced connections? Also, how are the send and return wired into the patch bay? Does a normal setup work so that the send and return loop back untouched or do you use half or through? Sorry, I am just doing research on this as I like the idea of using a mixer for mixing the tracks and would like to use inserts in an effective way without going back and forth from the desk.
Thanks!
Glad to help. I may have covered some of this in previous videos but I've made almost 300 so I forget. If your console has TRS inserts then you would use an insert cable that goes from a single TRS for the console side and 2 TS to go to the patchbay with the insert send above the return on the pay. Ideally you'd want these half normalled so you can use the insert send for other uses such as a direct out from the pre while keeping the signal flowing to the insert return. Normalled would also work if you don't plan to use the insert send for anything other than normal insert duties. I hope this helps and let me know if you have further questions. Thanks!
@@TwinCreekAudio Is the patchbay balanced? Any "noise" with TS send and receive while using balanced connections for outboard gear or are the cables short enough where this is a non-issue?
Thanks again 🙂
@@AntmanFelix usually when the inserts are on TRS they are unbalanced on the TS end and even the TRS connection is unbalanced with TIP and Ring also being unbalanced connections on the same TRS jack. This can be confusing as some equipment uses tip for send and ring for return while others are backwards. I have not had any issues with noise as long as there's good cable management and decent quality cables with shorter lengths.
@@TwinCreekAudio Awesome thanks a bunch! I been reading a lot of different information and got confused thus I appreciate the clarification and your experience. This helped a lot!
thax for sharing ..but from where didi u connect yr studio monitor like yamaha Hs5 if u use yr console main outs (left and right) to send yr mixes back to yr interface for print track.
The console has 2 sets of control room monitor outputs. Since I mix hybrid a lot, it works perfectly for me. I can also use pair of channels for the stereo playback from the DAW and still monitor through the console.
@@TwinCreekAudio thank u
@@TwinCreekAudio thank u
why do you mix with the jade and not wiht the soundtracs on this video ??
I stopped using the soundtracs Topaz for most of my mixing work whenever I acquired the soundcraft. I used the Topaz for the video because it has the type of connections that you can see whereas the soundcraft has all EDAC connectors so there would have been no way to show the individual connections in the video. In other words I used the Topaz for this example because it is simpler to set up than the other large console in my studio. I have not owned the Topaz in over a year though I kept it for several years after acquiring the soundcraft as a backup. I have never used a Jade of any kind in any of the videos. The Topaz and Soundcraft Sapphyre are the 2 console I think you are referring to.
If I only have 8 ins/outs on my interface can I send my final mix from the DAW out to my analog mixer and send back to the DAW and then download to an mp3? Would that accomplish a similar result? Im trying to utilize my 24 channel mixer in some compacity.
thx
Yes, you can run 8 channels out of the interface and into the console, then record the master outputs back into 2 channels on the interface for a stereo Mixdown. You can also send just the 2 main channels out to the mixer and back the same way, but using 2 audio interface outputs to the console and then record the master outputs back into the audio interface. If you had an interface with more I/O, you could expand on this idea and run more individual channels out through the mixer. If your mixer has tape inputs and is inline design, you can connect 24 inputs and outputs to the channels and tape returns like I describe in several videos. If your console doesn't have any tape inputs, you can use 1-8 or 1-16 as send channels and the rest as returns from the DAW. Best of luck and let me know how it goes.
Well I have an Allen Heath GL3300. I’m struggling to hook up my outboard compressor and a sonic maximizer. This console doesn’t have a dedicated master far as I can see. So I don’t know how and where to hook up the compressor before I send the audio back in to Reaper.
The channels should have inserts so you could use a pair of channels. I think that console was designed for live sound or theater. Does it have a matrix section? It can still be used for recording and mixing. The workflow might not as straightforward but it will work.
@@TwinCreekAudio yes it has a matrix section
@@EnfernoMuzik maybe you can use that or a pair of buses as your master out? The buses likely have inserts for outboard processing.
@@TwinCreekAudio I will try that. Thx for answering
I've got a question with regards to the subgroups. Whenever I assign my drums to group 1 and 2 and remove them from main L R, my output for the group is low. I have to push that group fader way up. Do you know what is going on here? Am I not hitting it hard enough on the way in from my daw or not turning up the individual channel faders enough? When I solo the group it is loud enough... trying to figure out what I am missing. BTW you were right a few vids back when I asked about combining plugin eq with console eq. I shape it with the board and if I need a cut or something specific, something like fab filter or other precision eq gets me what I need. I adjust what i need from the plug that then feeds the board and board eq. This truly hybrid approach is fantastic rather than spending thousands on outboard hardware. ( which I don't have) lately when I have had money. It goes towards hardware compressors. I still feel compression and summing is best done with hardware.
Do you have anything connected to the subgroup inserts on 1 and 2? If so, you may need to adjust the output level or makeup gain. If you are purely using the subgroups to groups things for control in the mix, then it could be the channel fader level or level coming into the console inputs that is too low. I will often use the DAW faders to push the console inputs a little harder. Let me know what results that gives you.
@@TwinCreekAudio hoping to try it out later and report back. As far as I can tell I am driving the (kick anyway) into the orange on the meter. It just doesn't make sense to me that a submix would be lower volume if I A/B the group to the main LR. I do notice when I push the line level up on the incoming signal from my DAW, it does go up in the subgroup 1/2 group. So I am guessing that I either get it up in the DAW or I push the line input gain up so that I consistently get all signals into high green/orange on my meter. I am guessing this would also allow the board to do what consoles do best. Oh, and nothing connected to sub group yet. I am going to be sending 1/2 out to a stereo comp for parallel compression once i get this figured out and then back in on two spare channels. The Ramsa doesn't have inserts on the groups unfortunately. Have to get creative on how i group and send channels to the 20 channels on the board. 8 groups at least. It can be challenging but fun to find solutions in hybrid while committing.
thank you for this video, you have a great way of explaining things! I‘m starting to plan my move towards mixing outside the box but I‘m struggling to find audio interfaces with enough IO that would allow a 24 channel console. The only setup I was able to come up with so far would be to use a rme digiface usb and then connect a ferrofish pulse 16 and another interface to it with some more ins and outs. But 1. that‘s too expensive for me atm, 2. I do like the controls, ins and outs etc my current interface (arturia audiofuse studio) gives me. Do you have any gear recommendations, tips etc. to solve my issue and come up with a affordable good solution to connect the desk to the computer? Cheers from Switzerland, Sam
The RME Digiface and Ferrofish was exactly the setup I've been thinking of upgrading to. I cant afford to do that right now either so I'm still using 2 Echo Audiofire 12s. They sound good and the control panel allows them to work like a tape machine when tracking. The input passes to the output and back to the console with no latency which is great for tracking bands. These are older FireWire interfaces so I will definitely need to replace them before the drivers are no longer supported. The other option would be the MOTU 16a and then an additional optical interface which could be something as inexpensive as the Behringer ADA8200. I'm still considering options like these and I'll definitely make a video when I eventually upgrade things here. Thanks so much for your comment!
@@TwinCreekAudio Thank you for your quick and helpful response! I didn't know the MOTU 16a, looks good but also a bit on the expensive side;) Looking forward to your video!
What do you think about the Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK for mixing outside the box? It seems very popular, and disregarding my love for vintage gear, newer devices also have their pros. Do you know if there is a difference to the sound if you pass it through single ins and outs of an interface or, like it would be the case in the soundcraft signature, if you have all channels come through a USB cable into the mixer and then take the stereo out of the mixer back into your DAW? I mean it shouldn't make a difference, right? All the channels have to go through a USB cable anyways to reach your interface.
I do like the idea of a vintage console but my first priority is to have a nice analogue sound and if I can achieve that through cheaper means with the signature 22 mtk that could be a great option. What do you think? Do you think it's still worth it to go for vintage consoles?
@@samuelbrunner I have not tried the MTK 22 myself but I hear good things about them. They have the Ghost preamps and the Sapphyre EQ. I can confirm the Sapphyre EQ is very very good. I used to own a Ghost as well and really liked it. I'd say the MTK 22 is about the best choice on the market today for the price.
@@TwinCreekAudio awesome, thank you for your help!
Do you ever use balanced Y leads? Is there any benefit to using those. where you have a TRS 1/4 inch on all three jacks rather than one TRS and two TS?
That's a great question. The Topaz TRS inserts are unbalanced with sleeve ground and tip of TRS for send and ring for receive(a lot of console are the opposite of this with ring being the send and tip the return. There would be no benefit since the consoles inserts are unbalanced. The Soundcraft Sapphyre has balanced inserts but these have a separate send and return connection and both are balanced TRS on TT/bantam connections. Many mixing console use these unbalanced TRS connectors for inserts and it really isn't a problem unless the cables connecting them to other equipment are really long. I think a balanced insert on one jack would have to be TRRS in order to be able to use balanced connections as you need 3 connections for each balanced connections. Standard TRS inserts have a ground and a send and receive on 3 connections where the send and receive share the audio ground. Most of my rack gear is balanced but works well with either balanced or unbalanced connections with no problems. If the console has separate connections for insert send and receive, it may have balanced inserts though many older mixers that have separate send and receive are still unbalanced inserts with 2 connections instead if a single TRS insert. Best way to know for sure if to check the manual and specs of the console to make sure. Thank you so much for your comment. I hope my answer helps.
@@TwinCreekAudio Thanks for the response. THe manual is actually what created the question for me. I am just getting started with an analog mixer and maybe I shouldn't be reading the manual late at night. I just found it odd that in some cases it called for normal unbalanced insert cables and in other cases it calls for the balanced cables for example on the Aux outputs. Great videos, I am enjoying the analog content.
Quick quech: difference between tracking and mixing?? 🧐
There's another video with information on how to track with an analog console I made that probably answers that question better than I can in a comment.
czcams.com/video/qEjg7h9iOqE/video.html
Hopefully that will help and let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!
@@TwinCreekAudio Ty Kind Sir!
@@vanexel9687 you're welcome. Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.
Hey again. So I just got my hands on a Carvin mx 1688 mixer/console. I’m having trouble with connecting my monitors to it. Also on the console, should I connect the outputs of the master section to the inputs on my interface, in order to be able to hear playback?
The Carvin MX1688 should have monitor outputs that you would connect to a set of powered monitors or an amp. I had a MX2488 and it had the control room levels on faders which is super cool! Then you'd connect the output of your audio interface to the 8 tape inputs or however many you need for your audio interface. These are in a separate section above the subgroups and have their own faders, pan etc. They also route to the first 8 main channels automatically when you switch them to line mode IIRC. If you have more than 8 outputs you want to connect, you would connect those to the line inputs. Then you need to assign the channels to go somewhere like the main LR or subgroups. I can't remember how the monitor section works other than those 8 inputs route to the main channels when switched to line with nothing else plugged into them. You might see if you can locate a manual as they might provide more information. It has been years since I owned the Carvin MX2488. Long before I started the CZcams channel. I hope that helps and good luck!
@@TwinCreekAudio gotcha. So my board does have control room inputs along with the faders, would I plug in my monitors to that? Then from there how would I get that signal into the daw?
@@jackmmarsden you need to have outputs from the console to plug into inputs on your interface. This video mostly covers mixing but I made another one that show how to setup for recording. Your should plug your monitors into the consoles monitor outputs. That is if they are powers monitors that have amps, otherwise the monitor outlets from the console would plug into the inputs of an amp and the amp would connect to speakers or monitors. Here is the link the other video:
czcams.com/video/qEjg7h9iOqE/video.html
The idea is that you have main channels for tracking things through to tape in the past and now audio interface inputs to DAW. Then a recording console will have additional tape inputs and either a separate monitor mix section for the tape inputs(aka split console) or integrated into the main channels(inline console like a Mackie 8 bus or Ghost). This was for independence so your levels to the recording device don't change if you change the monitor mix the musicians or engineer are hearing. It's a whole world of signal flow with analog equipment you need to do know to do this properly. I have a lot of videos about this with different consoles if you search the channel videos.
@@TwinCreekAudio thank you so much. Sorry for so many questions! You’re awesome though.
@@jackmmarsden Thank you and good luck! Hopefully some of the videos will help. I'm pretty sure Carvin has the manual for your console and it might include some setup diagrams. Just substitute your audio interface for the tape machine in the diagrams.
cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0476/5297/files/MX2488.pdf?1775