Israel/Palestine: An Honest Conversation
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- 💥Join us on our Journey to 1 Million Subscribers💥 Journalist Melanie Phillips recounts the history of Israel, and explores the origins of the Israel/Palestine conflict.
Released Dec 8th 2018
Watch the full episode here 👇🏼
• Melanie Phillips: "The...
Melanie Phillips is a Journalist, Broadcaster and Author.
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Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.
Released Dec 8th 2018
Watch the full episode here👇🏼
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She is a useless guest. Suits your show.
How long until Graham Hancock becomes a regular? You fucking pricks.
When only one person is speaking, it's not a conversation, it's a monologue. This is one of those subjects that people tread carefully around, lest they get cancelled. By his own admission, Konstantin didn't know much about the topic, so he couldn't disagree even if he wanted to. A more appropriate title would be: "One person's perspective."
@@josephmassaro She's full of it. Downvoted this video.
@@josephmassaro It is a conversation, while on this extract Melanie Philipps is the one mainly speaking. Francis and Konstantin let her speak, but if you had watched the whole episode, you'll have seen that it's not the case all along the hour of podcast. She is making them learned the truth about the history of Israêl!
There’s a reason people don’t get this whole situation. It’s because it’s shrouded in lies and deception
And Melanie is one of the most established perpetrators of it.
@@paulsmith7579 Just like that eh?
@@ThePiratemachine Yes
So true!!!!!!
100%
The UK and US did not model themselves after ancient Israel, but rather Ancient Greece. From their governmental systems, to their architecture, and many things in between, Ancient Greece was a major inspiration and influence.
The Jews themselves were slaves/workers in Egypt, and then did a runner. Hardly the first nation.
She's full of the proverbial
Yes it was a major influence too, but the western civilisation owes a lot to its christain judean hertitage...
Our legal framework is broadly drawn from The Ten Commandments.
Primarily from Rome. Rome had the senate, a republic, separate executive branch (the consuls), etc. Rome had elections of tribunes and the like (a bicameral legislature, in effect).
Nothing she said should be considered controversial. It’s bizarre to live in a world where facts sound radical.
Controversy isn't the issue here. It's phrasing historical events to favour your point of view9which I'm about to do), especially the decision to start with "well Jews were the first and rightful owners of the land" .. oh really? Well the Canaanites were the original people of the land
According to the Hebrew Bible, the Jewish patriarch Abraham is said to have migrated to Canaan, and his descendants, including the famous figures of Isaac and Jacob, became associated with the land.
Facts? Ok here you go: Israel has occupied Palestinian land in contravention of international law; they have blockaded Palestinian territory in contravention of international law; they have built and enlarged settlements in contravention of international law; enforced an apartheid system that strips Palestinians of the most basic Civic and human rights, and they have also targeted and killed and injured civilians on a mass scale for decades.
And the response of the western world at this time is what? Israel has a right to defend itself. Well what exactly does that mean? That they can cut off food? That they can cut off the power? That they can cut off water?
(In violation of the Geneva Convention); That they can force the displacement of over a million citizens in what has been described by Non Governmental Organizations and United Nations representatives on the ground
as an open-air prison."
Palestinians were invented in mid 1960. Just Ukrainians were invented in the 19th century by the Austro-Hungarian empire to divide the Russian people and then Ukraine was invented by Lenin. Former Ukraine is Russia 🇷🇺
Some things have scant detail. A bit tired of this. 7-hour blackout on the security, hangliders and not rockets, please, no drones in the Israeli army?
@@urstube6901 Archaeological evidence shows that the Jews live there long before Biblical times.
I love your show and this was one of the most important interviews! Thanks to the amazing Melanie Phillips it's clear that if you don't know your history a false narrative can rise and convince the entire world of a complete lie.
This whole situation is impossible, I can't see how there will ever be a peaceful resolution. My heart breaks for the innocent children.
We can hope and pray.
@@geniexmay562So literally nothing then
@stellar7089 No, he said we can hope and pray. That is not nothing, even if you believe to be ineffective, as I tend to do since I am an agnostic atheist.
Yeah, "impossible", because the Nazi Israeli government can't stop being greedy inhumane cunts.
parking lots and forests, that's how you fix all that mess
All this proves is that intelligent people can be blinded by their bias the same as anyone else.
They even smarter in rationalization what happen
I'm assuming you include yourself here?
It is insane how she can just say ‘there is no such thing as Palestinians’. Russians also say there is no such thing as Ukrainians. In all these mess, I only feel bad for the innocent lives lost and suffering, while these ‘smarty pants’ keep spewing nonsense. Such rhetoric won’t bring a resolution.
@@stevenwortrich6014
I do. Do you?
it's *their* land, it says so right there in the book they wrote.
I went to school in the 70 in Spain, Catalonia and I always learnt that they had connection with the land, what is happening now or with the people went school after me is just crazy, in which moment the history told in schools changed or is not told anymore.
Briliiant. Clear and understandable. I learned more in 10 minutes listening to her than years of 'bits and pieces' and half-facts. Sharing this with friends. Thanks.
I don't know who's right in this conflict, but I do think that "we were here first so it's ours to go back to" seems like a crap justification unless you're going to apply that to literally every people who had their land taken/conquered.
But the left insist that our former colonies belong to the people who were there first, so which one is it?
White people have never taken land & conquered people.
She literally said that wasn't the case, and they had always been there.
Which other people are you comparing it to though? Which other nation/religion, particularly of biblical age and proportion, is stranded and dispersed without a land to go to?
100%.
There isn't a single sliver of land on this earth that hasn't been taken from previous owners by someone else leveraging an advantage. Before man took ownership they were fighting back animals for territory.
We seem to be tragically stuck in a perpetual loop from the actions of long dead people combined with texts written thousands of years ago that purport to offer the believers a better way of life. Yet here we still are with the innocents of the world dying and grieving wishing they could just go about their lives and be kind to one another and be left in peace. We can but dream.
You are right, humans and their existence have always overlapped the previous, in some way. About a hundred or so thousand years ago there were around 5 different varieties of hominoids, including homo sapiens, then the others disappeared, or were probably eliminated, in my view. Homo sapiens have proven to be ruthless, brutal and often violent, being the last one left to dominate the planet today. Nature and life will always seek to occupy space where opportunity exists, humans are no different. Kindness would be nice, but history tells another story.
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.
Exactly.... her entire argument is nothing but the special pleading fallacy and an appeal to emotion.
@@naejimba essentially 'my ancestors once lived in this land therefore I get to kick you out today to "reclaim" it as mine'
And before agriculture, people were more nomadic and not so bound to a plot of land for a majority of our species' time. Now we fight for every bit.
I love Melanie Philips. She is a woman of integrity and speaks the truth. I always learn something from her. She is absolutely right about the Jewish presence in Palestine long for the creation of Islam or Muslims rose to power in the M.E.
That has nothing to do with anything. So what about 2000 plus years ago. You talk about religion, what about ethnicity? The Lebanese have proven to be the closest to the Canaanites so do they have a claim? People move over time, religious conversations, pro-creation with other ethnicities and so on. You do not then have a claim 2000 years later. The land had inhabitants who had been there centuries, that is the fact. Those inhabitants were massacred and driven into refugee status by invading europeans, that is a fact. Those inhabitants are still oppressed to this day.
@@KX-12345 Those 'inhabitants' massacred the Jews repeatedly, starting in 1834, culminating in widespread ethnic cleansing of the Jewish population in August 1929.
Yeah this is a whitewashing of the brutal colonialism that created Israel.
So you mention Lebanon, so tell me what happened to all the Lebanese Christians once Lebanon was invaded by the Muslims?
You must be smoking Crack just like Melanie.
Perhaps an obvious Zionist is not the best candidate to lead a balanced, honest conversation
She just ignores logic and says whatever crap suits the situation.
I can't wrap my head around this - I've seen historians from both sides giving rather precise, convincing yet opposite accounts of this matter. I'm no historian, no scholar, thus I am just ignorant on the Palestine/ Israel issue.. I can only pray for the innocent civilians on both sides, and that's about it.
according to my Hebrew/Jewish calendar its the year 5784. We Jews have been in Israel a looooooong time.
Lying by omission is still lying.
You need to learn that a lie can actually be 100% true.
It is called a lie of omission.
A historian can still be a liar, even if they never sated a single false thing and is being 100% accurate.
The lie is formed by what they left out.
@@joangordoneieioJudaism is a religion. Anyone can convert to it. Doesnt change your ancestors.
Yeah it is complicated and messy.
That's all I got to say.
you know in your heart that's not true my love, you know for a fact palestines have been mercilessly abused by the isrealis for decades, you're just to scared to admit it to yourself or you would have to care about them
Scrolling through CZcams, looking for an honest, balanced discussion of the situation. Still looking.
here's one for you - send everyone that claims to either be "palestinian" or "israeli" back to their precious land and let them all sort their own shit out. Not our problem. btw, you can be of Palesitinian or Arab origin, or Jewish ancestry and still live in our country - just don't try claiming all that previous bullshit. You left that behind when you moved here. Much the same as I have Italian ancestry - I'm not walking around wearing an Italian flag and going "Hey, watsamattayou?"
Spot on. This woman is asinine.
@@BeautifulGirl735everything she is said is documented history.
@@mannedhandlethe talmud/torah is not history
The Torah is not history, huh? You are ignorant. Is the Qur'an history? @@SPDRM
Imagine an Indian Tribe in north America...that was kicked off its land several centuries ago.
They start returning to their "homeland" and start buying large blocks of real estate...to be annexed into the closest reservation as approved by the Federal government.
Those locally initiate an attack on the Indians and the Indians fight back and win. Some locals are displaced.
Is this analogous?
yes, that's pretty much what went down. That was land owned by the British, not by the Arabs, let alone the "palestinians" who didn't even exist in 1948. At last somebody who can use a brain.
@@toniomiklo2406 Land was governed by the Brit’s, not owned. Small farmers actually lived on parcels of farm land for years.
The latter passages of the Quran state that the Jews are to be eradicated. Those passages take precedence over earlier passages
I feel like there's no part of her that wants to remotely understand the other side. Its thinking like this that makes peace impossible. Konstantin makes a great point, it doesn't matter what your heritage is - when its generations removed. You can't force people out of their homes because you have a historical tie to the land... its a tinder box of an ideology and not a way forward. Everyone has ties to everywhere in the remote past.
correct. it's a similar thinking that demands reparations from me to a historically oppressed population for sins committed by people with a similar skin pigmentation to mine.
What about the people of different pigmentation, who carried out the same acts of slavery.
Barbarians begot the enslavement of "lesser" people.
Nothing to do with race. It happened for thousands of years.
America is the Greatest country in the world, bcuz of the idea, idea(l)'s, enshrined into our bill of rights/ rights given to oppose an overreaching guuebment based on a model set forth by the constitution.
An individual is "free" to govern their lives, they're not subjugated to the whims of the elite class.
The problem is subversion and comfort.
If we want to stay "free" we need to educate ourselves to the games played against us.
Would this woman subscribe to the notion that Britain for instance would have the right to expel everyone that could not trace their lineage back to say 10BC.
Indeed. Tell that to the "Yes" voters here in Australia.
@@jmcham1000 it’s the ancestral homeland of the Jews. You think the M East all of it should be Islamic? Why? Muhamad and Islam doesn’t date back to more than 1400 years ago, founded in Arabia! The Arabs conquered by terror, most of the M East, which were previously Christian countries. And the Arabs are not Iranians, or Turks, or Iraqis. The Jews never left their homelands, there was always Jews since the time of King David, in Jerusalem. It belongs to the Hebrews!
It's crazy how people can be totally ignorant of their own biases. There's no chance of a peace when both parties think this way.
Perhaps there is no solution other than to fight it out.
@@MrHellweasel
Might as well.
There was a chance up until Iran told hamas to start this war.
Saudi Arabia was very close to signing the abramaic accords which would have normalized the relationsip between Israel and them. Where Saudi go the arab world follow.
@@DanielWijk You are 100% correct. I remember a few years ago there was very nearly a two state solution and a solid road map for peace on the table. Things were looking great for the first time in decades. Sadly Yasaaraft buckled to the pressure of those war mongering mad and insane ayatollahs in Iran. Iran is ipulling all the strings in the ME.
Melanie P is ignorant of her own biases
Melanie Phillips is totally right. There is antisemitism on the left. I decided to get involved in the anti-war (Iraq) cause during the Bush/Blair invasion and was shocked by some of the remarks I came across and the double standards involved in this. She's also right that if you're arguing purely from historicity, the Jewish people have a superior claim. I was surprised by how many people in Ireland, where the vast majority had a religious-based education when I was growing up, couldn't acknowledge this, as it's inherent in Judeo-Christian tradition. That said, I do have massive sympathy for the Palestinians, caught in the middle between Hamas and Israel, just trying to go about their lives. Conditions in Gaza are unacceptable. But it's possible to recognize this without engaging in anti-semitic rhetoric that distorts history.
Semitic people or Semites is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group associated with people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians..
Zionists have utilized propaganda and manipulation to lump all Jewish people together in their zionist group, which any Jews with ethics/morals reject outright. Generally anyone considered "antisemetic" or claims it today, actually means they are against zionism..
Israeli government puts Jewish people all over the world at risk. If there were a Christian apartheid state that had been settling illegally into a country they were literally controlling the water supply too etc, and having boasted about it basically being a concentration camp, while funding the radical terrorists since 2005... I wonder.. pretty sure if they tried lumping in Christians in with them and their ideology it would not fly, and people would recognize the truth of the situation much clearer.
I feel sorry for the innocent people on both sides. There are no winners in this.
Anti-war is the only stance for rational and truly intelligent beings.
Sensible comment
You're wrong. The West is the winner.
You are correct. The video of the 4yr old boy kidnapped and getting poked with sticks and pushing his head is beyond heartbreaking
There are no innocent people in this conflict.
Innocent people would have resolved their differences!
I know so very little about the subject but everytime I try to dig into it's I find it impossible to find an unbiased viewpoint.
Want to know why? Because it's just a tribal land dispute. That's it. There are **ONLY** biased takes. And it boils down to which tribe you identify with.
@itssteve6018 a fake group taking the name "Palestinians" seeking to occupy the ancestral homeland of the Jews seems pretty simple
If Christians took over Israel, the Muslims would attack Israel.@@itssteve6018
@@itssteve6018 I 'identify' with the 'tribe' that is democratic, progressive, enlightened, and is a major global power in science, research, medicine, tech, and education! And a 'tribe' that doesn't endorse 10-year old girls marrying 30-year old men, and throwing gay people off of buildings!
Why must a viewpoint be unbiased. What does unbiased even mean. Any opinion is automatically biased. U want to look at facts and pick your side.
Thank you Melanie Phillips for telling the truth.
Kostya, it was a bit simplistic question when you compared yourself trying to resettle back to Moscow and you would need to kick out current occupants living in that flat. Jews in Israel came and built their own housing. Some Arabs fled their homes but it was their decision. Yes, there was some forceful removal of Arabs but it was not a majority of cases. It was a war afterwards. Thanks for everything you are doing
I don't understand the argument that Group A owned this land and they are the only rightful owners of it regardless of Group B, C, D, and F having logically equal claim to it. All while the entire argument seems to ignore that Group A claimed that land from someone at some time prior to the creation of any Jewish kingdom so doesn't whoever that was have an even more logical claim using the original argument?
We essentially don't tolerate this logic anywhere else so why is it tolerated here or should the United States give itself over to the descendents of indigenous population?
You are using too much logic there Sir
Is there in your view any other group MORE entitled to this land than the Israelis? Don´t forget how many times they have offered to abstain from large territories for a Palestinian state.
@@jaspalgahunia4726they have a magic fairy tale book that says so = win
@@oller7113 it doesn't really matter if I identify any particular group. That is entirely besides the point as far as the logic is concerned.
A better question is can you determine any logically consistent reason why the occupants of the geographic area prior to the Jewish Kingdoms do not have more claim to the area?
Isrrael is an aparttheid regime.
The guest becomes immediately suspect when they declare that the US and Britian are modelled after the Kingdoms of Israel.
In UK, the Kingdom of Israel only applies to the Coronation.
Everything else, is modelled today on the Roman Republic, where before Cromwell, it was modelled on the Roman Empire.
I also find her comments on how the British responded to her, and the parallels with Maori in both the UK, and NZ. In the past, they said the exact same comments that she mentioned here.
Just switch the term Jew for Maori, and you have the idea. With NZ entering an election in few days, it is worrying to see the right pedalling the same here in NZ in the open that was said to her in a conversation.
"They were a people in a particular area of land, which they governed according to laws they made... and they defended."
She claims that, for this reason, the British and American systems are modelled on Israel. It describes practically every country throughout history. It's so vague as to be utterly meaningless.
Both the US and UK are heavily influenced by Christianity and Christianity has its roots in the Kingdom of Israel. So that’s probably what she means.
I think you might want to consider Christianity’s roots in Judaism before dismissing that comment. The notion of an anointed king second only to the abrahamic god was first a Jewish concept. Fundamental principles of English common law (transplanted to the colonies) flow from that, and other aspects of abrahamic law.
Uk is a christian nation , christianity is an offshoot of Judaism and holds many of the same tenets so the comment is made on the christian ideology, and in that frame she is correct, you misunderstand her.
Melanie Phillips needs to explain the explosions of Palestinians in 1948 and how the Israeli government prevented those who temporarily fled the violence of the war (like the Deir Yassin Massacre) from returning to their homes. These Palestinians were never financially compensated for their lost/stolen property and were forced to live in refugee camps. Regardless of how strongly any of these people identified as Palestinian before 1948, exiling them and seizing their property was wrong and their anger at the state of Israel for this is legitimate. To make matters worse, many of these Palestinian refugees were living in refugee camps in Gaza and the West Bank, which were occupied by Israel after the 1967 War. Many continue to be forced off their land in the West Bank as Israeli settlers move in. The Israeli settlers have Israeli citizenship and the Israelis control most of the West Bank, making it effectively annexed territory. The problem is that Palestinians living in the West Bank don't have Israeli citizenship, making the West Bank effectively an Apartheid State. Israel can solve this either by pulling all settlers and military forces out of the West Bank and allowing it to be an independent country or by offering the Palestinians living there Israeli citizenship and all the rights that come with it, but the Israeli government does not want to do either of these. Right-wing Israelis, many of whom are in the current government, instead hope to coerce/force Palestinians to leave the West Bank so they can claim the territory as part of Israel. The irony of the whole situation is that Jews have historically experienced exile and disenfranchisement similar to what the Israeli government does to Palestinians today.
850,000+ Jews evicted from Arab countries where they’d lived for up to 2500 years were not compensated; they were lucky to get out alive (as many others were not).
@@patriciakimball8150 Two wrongs don't make a right. Both expulsions were horrible.
The Arabs started a war on the Jews after multiple massacres going all the way to 1948 and made their intentions very clear. Mind you there were many refugees at the time, post world war 2. Only the Arabs leaving Israel were given special treatment, as a testament to both Muslim and Majority of western world animosity toward Jews.
Thank you so much for this deeply enlightening interview. Its filled in a lot of holes in my very limited grasp of the situation.
So what about Palestinian Christians ? They existed and still exist.
😂She dose not a knowledge them,, I mean if Palestinian are budeion /Gypsy,,, do you think she care about the Christians
Elias Chaccour wrote in Blood Brothers that villages were seized by the IDF early on after the foundation of Israel.
These days there are many good things in Israel but through the settlements Israel is taking more and more territory.
The Hamas attack makes things massively worse and of course Israel will fight back hard.
Whataboutism is not an argument. The original Christians were Jewish.
ahahah what an absurd comment, the original inhabitants of that land even before judaism was created were Semitic and Arab tribes, so the proto palestinians of today were already in the land from the beginning.
@@truth-uncensored2426 Careful. Even the Arabs claim Arabs began their existence after the arrival of Abraham.
On the other hand, the coastal areas (Phonecia, Philistia) were populated by "The Sea Peoples" whose origins were outside of the area.
So should we all leave America and give the native Americans back their land as well?
Exactly!
I was just thinking that
The world would've been a lot more peaceful in the last 70 years if you'd never got there in the first place. So yes please.
@MrPotatoMind false but nice bigotry on display
The entire world improved because of the American idea. The first country to put the liberty of the individual as the most fundamental aspect. Without it, you'd have no freedom to speak what you just said. There would be no free trade around the world because the US made the seas safe. For centuries the people of the world have recognized this and made the US the #1 destination for immigration.
There is no singular "the native Americans", they were all fighting each other constantly and committed some of the most abominable and gruesome acts against each other before Europeans arrived. A peaceful utopian coexistence it was not. Which of the other 200+ nations carved out nations inside their own borders for those they displaced? Which other nation had creeks and rivers run red with the blood of white soldiers who sacrificed themselves to end slavery? The UK abolished slavery very shortly before the US, so we weren't the first but they didn't have much to abolish by comparison.
Everything above is a fact. The world is in decline because the US is in decline and orders of elite hyper-weathy wish for our destruction so they can take all the power, control and resources. "You'll own nothing and be happy" they say and deluded, misguided and ignorant people go along with it.
The term "Palestine" first appeared in the 5th century BCE when the ancient Greek historian Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê"
Really, what is the reference, apart from Herodotus wrote? The first mention I have found is 100 bc from the Romans.
@@bro3545presumably that's why the Romans called it Palestine, to insult the Jews by giving it a name in reference to one of the rulers of one of the Hebrews' historical enemies and subjugators.
@@bro3545 What is the reference? He wrote only one book didn't he? Search it online or check your copy of it.
Nope, the romans invented it!
Not the same place. Philistines were not Jews.
Who else tried to clean off the white dot and then realised it is not something stuck to your screen 😅
"The Jews were the original nation upon which America and Britain modeled themselves."
Okay... I think that tells you everything you need to know about this person.
And the fact she has spoken in a germanic language and written in a roman alphabet proves its palpable nonsense!
Look up Judeo-Christian values.
Yeah, like she is delusional.
@hH-lc1to, She’s right though, certainly in regards to Britain (or more specifically the English). As recently as the Edwardian Era, it was believed in England that being English wasn’t a nationality but a nationhood. People in England accepted as given, without irony or doubt, that there was an ‘English race’ with divinely conferred rights. That idea was inspired by the history of the Jews.
Show me DNA of all 10 million Israelis. 😂I want to see what % of their DNA comes from Judea tribe, which btw was only 1/12 of Israel. King David was a convert. There was no such concept as a jewish "nation". Hebrew language wasn't even official language but holy language used to teach religion. They mostly spoke Aramaic, just as Christ did.😂What you're seeing in Palestine has nothing to do with the so called Biblical kingdom of IsraelITES.
As if history was so clean and clear that it would ascribe a piece of land to one religious group.
Genesis was an estate agent.
And the kicker being that the father of political Zionism, who pushed for a Jewish "ethno" state, European Theodor Herzl, was an ATHEIST who had contempt for religious Jews. So a God he didnt even believe in, "promissed" him and his other white supremacist friends, that land. 🙄
That's why they split it between the 2 people's that lived there. Jordan - Muslim administered, Israel - Jewish administered.
20% of Israel's population is Muslim. They serve in Israel's government. Name 1 Muslim country in the region with a large Jewish population or Jews in their government.
No of course not, but Israel is uniquely evil.
57 Moslem nations.
The history is very clear.
The mentality of both sides is ‘we deserve it more’ rather than ‘how can we help each other’, which is why it cannot be resolved, and always ends in violence. The Palestinians seem less interested in nation building and more interested in nation destroying, however. Very tragic situation and I feel terrible for the poor little children of both sides
The difference is that Arabs are allowed to live in Israel as free and equal citizens, and Jews are not allowed to live in Palestine. So yes, Jews who can live side by side with Arabs absolutely deserve it more than Arabs who want to kill all the Jews. There are more than 2 million Palestinians living in Israel with more rights, freedom, including healthcare and education than they have in any Arab country.
加薩居民是自 1948 年和 1967 年以來被以色列趕出家園的巴勒斯坦人。您知道嗎？
That’s a fact!!
If I were to follow this logic, then Belgium (I am just taking an example now, being Belgian) urgently needs to adjust its borders. The entire north of present-day France and the south of the Netherlands belonged to the people of the original Belgians in Gaul. Later, from 20 B.C. to the 5th century, Gallia Belgica ("Belgian Gaul") was a province of the Roman Empire in the northeastern part of Roman Gaul, in what today is mostly northern France, Belgium and Luxembourg, along with parts of the Netherlands and Germany. Should we reclaim that territory?
Yes, Belgium deserves its place in the sun!
Go for it!!
you can under the condition that you introduce better quality fries, bread, and patisserie
A lot of the original Belgians moved to England... expect about 15 million Belgians to return and claim a piece of Flanders.
You can have limburg
Get Norman Finkelstein on now, show your balance.
I’d like a debate between the two.
Balance is not allowed.
You will be labelled an anti-semiite for even suggesting this.
@@total_leftieit will never happen because they know he would win the debate.
Same reason why Peter Hotez won't debate Peter McCullough et al ..
@@You_Tube000 You are kidding, right? He's all over You Tube.
I live in Denmark, and using this woman argument, I want Sweden, Iceland, and Norway back under the crown of Denmark. We also need a Large part of northern Germany, parts of Poland and some of the baltic countries. England was also under Danish rule, and we want it back, It is a similar story for Normandy in France. North America was also discovered by Danes not by "what was his name" from some obscure southern European country - We want North America back! Swedish Vikings, who at the time were under Danish sovereign, also founded Keiv, So Russia should get out of Ukraine it is clearly part of Denmark! ...
Yes! I think I remember reading this recently, that, historically, Ottomans controlled the southern third of Ukraine, Poles did another third and the Kingdom of Denmark controlled the northern third. But since Denmark controlled parts of Poland, I'd also say that the Polish part should be given to Denmark, too. And then, since there are a lot of Danish pastries being sold in the United States, I think the US should become a part of Denmark. At least if Denmark rules us, we'll start having better airplane food here in the States :)
But your points are really spot on. My heritage is both Serbian and Croatian, and I recall all the arguments about Kosovo while growing up in Belgrade, as Serbs considered it their historic land where they battled the Ottomans in 1389, and the Kosovar Albanians considered themselves Illyrian people who predated the Slavs in the region by centuries, so they thought the land was naturally theirs. None of this fighting and arguing really helped anyone in the end, and I think going back to the Israel government's retaliation and bombing raids on Gaza following the Hamas terror attack on Israel's innocent civilians, it's not anti-semitic to call out Israel's militant zionist government (Netanyahu in particular and his trigger-happy generals) on their desire to deliver a collective punishment to entire Gaza population, even though so many citizens of Gaza have nothing to do with Hamas and don't want them. It's wrong to deny an entire population water and electricity. Violence in response to violence is never the answer.
This.
Although she might argue that there was always Jews there, at least in small numbers.
This woman is senile . She needs help. Get her medication.
There have always been Greeks in Istanbul and large parts of Turkey, should we give that back to them? The reasoning that created Israel is honestly insane and completely untenable. @@LukeFlegg
Thank you.. so if the historic kingdom of Israel extended between Nile and Euphrates, then Syria and Egypt should be ready to give it back😅
I watched it to the end - it is all about her. One thing she is correct about is "everything is a matter of opinion" - and she obviously has her opinion on this subject !
Is that the same for all of us, including you?
Israel has occupied Palestinian land in contravention of international law; they have blockaded Palestinian territory in contravention of international law; they have built and enlarged settlements in contravention of international law; enforced an apartheid system that strips Palestinians of the most basic Civic and human rights, and they have also targeted and killed and injured civilians on a mass scale for decades.
And the response of the western world at this time is what? Israel has a right to defend itself. Well what exactly does that mean? That they can cut off food? That they can cut off the power? That they can cut off water?
(In violation of the Geneva Convention); That they can force the displacement of over a million citizens in what has been described by Non Governmental Organizations and United Nations representatives on the ground
as an open-air prison."
And this is a very apparently that you are an idiot could not hear a single word for what you say except me or her
amazing woman and reporter , speaks so clear , and explain the truth
I don't think the UK and US modelled themselves on Ancient Israel? Alfred the Great - modelled on a fusion of Roman and Christian values I'd guess? Then Magna Carta, which was not modelled on Israel (or perhaps anything else), but in and of itself formed the rough template of the rule of Law for the medieval age and influenced the genuis of the US constitution (US based on UK and Rome)
It’s a half truth.
It came out of what is known as British Israeliism.
Where wealthy upper class types in Britain who were obsessed with biblical stories tried to link biblical events geographically to Britain and suggest that Britain actually was Israel.
This then led somewhat indirectly to the push for the foundation of a Jewish homeland and the popularity of the Zionist movement.
The whole of Western culture is based on Judeo Christian ethics.
Christianity is rooted in judaism and the west is founded in Christian values. judeo christian much?
Your pretty much there, you just missed the part where christianity is an offshoot of Judaism and holds many of the same tenets!
Well, the notion of an anointed king second only to the Abrahamic god was first a Jewish concept. That same concept is at the root of (historical) English common law, and manifests itself through several doctrines (e.g. royal prerogative; “the king can do no wrong” etc.). There are obviously many many differences between the English model and the ancient Jewish kingdom of antiquity. But I think that’s what she is talking about.
US and UK modeling themselves on ancient Jews kingdoms...?? 😅 Been snorting too much of that dead sea salt, hasn't she?
Your ignorance is showing. It's called Christian Judeo ethics. It's fundamental to western civilization.
Judeo-Christian values and ethics is most likely whats she referring too, and is likely correct about.
In the sense that land is ethnically owned, yes. Many groups of people don't "own" the land they live on (like the North American Indians); they would say where they were from and where they hunt, but did not create settlements attached to a static piece of land.
Europeans own land, ring-fence it and say it is theirs, just for them.
The Bedouin tribes in Israel do not.
In this sense, the UK and all its former colonies have adopted a geographical ownership system first pioneered by the oldest functional city in the world (Jericho, now annexed to West Bank).
@@angrytedtalks lmao these people will rationalise anything to justify the "we're allowed to be a genocidal ethno-state, but nobody else is" mythology they've built
The Caliphates had non-Muslims as less than second class citizens, and current Arab countries prioritise Arab Muslims.
The whole of the Middle East was pretty nomadic, so does that mean none of it was populated?
That is certainly the logic that colonialists have used for centuries.
Like the “terra nullis” in Australia.
My God!
Talk about twist the truth.
Funny how she conveniently failed to mention, the 1918 letter from Lord Balfour?
And a lot more besides.
What a tale she says!
So her argument is ‘we were here first’ LOL. Really? Let’s apply that logic everywhere then, see how we get on…
But we know the Jews were the only people in Israel... Because their holy book describes how they genocided the rest of the tribes lmao
I think if one were to delve a bit deeper she would say that her people were given the land by God. I have often heard in the past from friends of her persuasion that it is the other religions that are extreme. The creation of Israel and the reasoning behind it paints a different picture.
@@airstrip1836 The funny thing about that assertion is that many Jews, like Theodor Herzl, are in fact atheists, so what God promissed them that land? Israel is colonisation of Arab land by Europeans, pure and simple.
@@airstrip1836 This is the root of things that seems to be omitted from a lot of commentary. There exists this fundamental belief that the land inherently belongs to them because according to scripture God granted it to them, and the intent is to somehow restore it, and anyone outside of the tribe is effectively a disposable obstacle to that happening.
@@TheLearnedFool
Yes in an effort to rid humanity of practices such as child and human sacrifice; the Jews (according to the Torah in any case) were instructed to eliminate from existance groups engaging in behavior such as cannibalism and human and child sacrifice that are anathema to human survival and flourishing. The idea being these practices present such a danger to humanity that a surviving member of such a community can not be permitted to rediscover the practice and therefore none from such a group can be permitted to live.
Now, take those stories as historical fact or religious narrative they do present a very interesting moral dilemma; one that only can be ordained by the Devine and can never be instigated by man.
Though, I am not sure if a theological discussion was something you were looking to pursue with your comment.......we shall see.
"Phillips expressed opposition to Irish independence, declaring on 7 March 2017 in her column in The Times, that the "most troublesome bits" of the UK are "showing signs of disuniting". For her, Scottish nationalism and Irish republicanism are cultural phenomena "rooted in romanticism and myth", while Englishness "came to stand proxy for all the communities of the British Isles". In particular, she wrote "Ireland itself has a tenuous claim to nationhood" because the Irish Free State was only established in 1922. She denounced "attempts at secession by tribes" in Northern Ireland". Now what is this other than hypocrisy?
It IS hypocrisy. Great point
Of course it's hypocrisy. Look around. Walls and and ethno state for me but not for thee.
That very hypocrisy is the heart of the reason why they’re not well viewed around the world. And this nonsense she states about India and China being pro-Jewish is laughable. They’re about as pro-Jewish as Putin.
I think you can draw clear parallels to an independent United Ireland and Palestine in that they have never existed in History ie. romanticism and myth. They have also both used violence and propaganda to garner support from uninformed people from around the world and have somehow managed to diminish the fact that the IRA and Hama's are brutal murderers who have killed women and children indiscriminately. There are many other parallels - too many to go into on here.
@@user-xs1xw3nx2dyou know there are lots of Arabs that consider them selves Isreali. Isreali isn't really an ethno state.
I wish people would make it a habit to state their sources when they make major claims. Otherwise must we take your word for it?
…..I mean this is pretty obviously but if you’d like you can literally reference the Balfour Declaration
Who were the original occupants of the American and the Australasian continents?
Any chance that these areas should be handed back to the original inhabitants?
Forget it!
How she describes the Bedouin etc people of Palestine- "having no nation, not being a collective identity" - is exactly describing the Aboriginal people of Australia pre colonisation. Be careful the arguments you make - justification for one group is condemnation for another.
But the aboriginals didn't have a nation...
They were barely functional tribes.
Thank you
In America the Cherokee did have a "Nation", and created a written language. When President Jackson wanted to move them out of Georgia, the Cherokee Nation took their case to the Supreme Court and won. Jackson moved them out anyway.
The point is Bedouins didn't even consider themselves "Palestinian". It's an invented term to culturally appropriate the ancestral homeland of the Jews.
Palestinians didn't demand a state until after 1967.
Before the resistance was to get back land for Jordan. The area was Greater Syria under British. And yes many people were semi nomadic and fully nomadic. Incl the borders of Saudi Arabia and Iraq too. If you visit the region the bedouins explain how they moved between large regions in very recent history.
Its not inaccurate
She is a historian now 🤔 “what you said was wrong”. “they were basically kicked out” a long long long time ago so “long story short” “um basically “ your right Is she for real?
there once was history, now we have herstory and if its up to her we will have jewstory
@@Rem_NL she’s an algorithm
No, she’s just happen to tell the truth which is not hard to learn.
She says nobody wanted them but India or china, but I’m pretty sure they weren’t persecuted too badly in the various Muslim caliphates that’s ruled Arabia and North Africa. In reality it was just Europe that they weren’t welcome, everywhere else was equally fine
This was NOTHING CLOSE TO AN HONEST CONVERSATION..Why isn't McMahon-Hussein Correspondence mentioned in this conservation which actually predates the Belfour. Do we just ignored the British double dealing? So, who was the majority enthic group at the end of WW1?... These questions werent asked in this clip
I just learned about the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence recently and it is such an important and overlooked detail preceding the Balfour Declaration
It is always interesting to hear different peoples perspectives - in this clip, Melanie was not challenged nearly enough on her perspective though - from the comments, it would seem that on the whole clip that might be less true?
Melanie : Israel had a kingdom here once - nobody else was really living there, so we were given it and rightly so, because we always had a place there.
Possible points to push back on (based on my quick investigation, I am no historian either) :
There have been settlements in the area of Jerusalem since circa 3000 BCE.
By 1700 BCE there was a permanent settlement with walls etc.
By 1500 BCE it was a vassal to Egypt.
Egypts power waned, and in 1200 BCE Jerusalem was populated by Canaanites
Circa 1000 BCE David (Jews) sacked Jerusalem and took it for their own (renamed to City of David) in the United Kingdom of Israel
Maybe 70 years later, 930 BCE, the Kingdom of Judah split from the United Kingdom of Israel - Jerusalem lies within the Kingdom of Judahs borders.
600 BCE and the Babylonians took control of the area.
500 BCE and now Persia controls the area
Then Greece, then Seleucid, then Hasmonean, then Romans, then Byzantines
640 AD Muslims conquered the area.
It remained so for circa 500 years, and then the Crusades arrived, bring their own interesting piece of history to the area.
And yes, throughout that , from time to time there was a Jewish presence there. But, also Christian and Muslim - and if you had to put money on it, you would have to say the Muslims spent far more time there, with larger populations and more control. (Note, it seems Palestine is a term used in Arabic to describe the area since the early Islamic period).
Along comes WWI, and the British fighting the Ottoman empire. Jerusalem at this time has a minority Jewish population. However there are zionist figures in British politics and in 1917, the Balfour Declaration is announced. The wording of which is : "The establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine". So, my understanding is that the League of Nations gave Britain a mandate to rule the Palestinian (and Transjordan and Iraq) territories. However it was the Balfour Declaration (purely British - written and influence by some zionists in positions of influence within the British government at the time) that mentioned the Jewish people and the national home.
Note the language. It was carefully worded (and it has been confirmed later by the British Government) that the idea was not to give Palestine in its entirety over to the Jewish people as a state, but instead to find them a place to call home within Palestine. The same Declaration indicated the importance of safeguarding the religious and civil rights of the majority Palestinian Arabs.
At the time, 1% of the global Jewish population was part of a zionist group. Over the next 25 years however, the population of Jerusalem grew from 50k to 165k, and the Jews went from a minority, to a 2/3rds majority in the City of Jerusalem. This rapid expansion and change in society caused problems, with riots and through the 1930's this violence on the ground got worse, into the 1940s where a zionist group launched a terrorist attacks on local British forces. This constant escalation led to the formal plan (through the United Nations) to create a 2 state solution, with a Jewish state some distance away from Jerusalem (which would be internationally run) with just a highway to connect the two. (Much like Berlin post WWII).
Lots of nasty things happened since then, but this is effectively the birth of modern Israel with some history regarding who has a "claim" on the land. A shorter version would have been to say that if you look at the religious types in order, the group who settled the area for the longest time would be :
#1 Non-Abrahamic
#2 Muslim
#3 Christian
#4 Jews
I realise I have done a crazy wall of text and it doesn't read very well - Ah well, I got carried away.
The long and the short of it? Sometimes someone can be charismatic, be articulate, sound intelligent, have lots of facts to hand and yet still present them in a biased way which ignores some (or in this case, nearly all) of the larger underlying truths. For me, this is what has happened here - I would just recommend if you are interested, to dig for yourself
Also, for the 4 people who will read the whole thing - if I am factually inaccurate here, please do correct as needed :)
you analysis makes zero sense. Jews never completely left. The whole country is full of Jewish archaelogical sights. Then Christians. Muslims have no religious claim there. They are not abrahamic. Mekka is their holy city. Their stories about their claim aren't real. The only connection Islam has with Jerusalem is a dream of Mohammed that he went there on a buraq (a flying weird looking creature). Obviously false.
In my opinion, of the Jews had actually fought for the land and taken it, like the Muslims and Christians prior, then I wouldn't begrudge them it. It's that they bought it with money and let the goy do the fighting for them. It's indicative of their behaviour over the last 2000 years.
From what I have read the Jewish people have had a continous presence in the area since around 1200 BC. The Babylonian deportation of Jews targeted the educated and wealthy class of Jews, but the lower class largely remained. The same is true for every forced deportation following. That being the case I cannot understand your assertion that they have not been settled in the area the longest. You can even trace their lineage to the Caananites, which would then take them farther back than historical mentions of Israel around 1200 BC.
Thanks for this well researched but if summary - I assume both Hamas and Israeli government deny this reading?
Thanks for sharing these facts! 👏
Melanie Phillips writes for the Guardian, I congratulate you for being opened minded to interview her. She seems to be very biased.
Yeah, not feeling a lot of balance in her assessment.
Her views on Israel seem to contradict the broad Guardian consensus though.
God forbid should a fellow jew defend us from nazi arabs and their nazi supporters
@@Sneakyboson It's the eternal "Zionist Jewish Left" vs "Communist pro-Arab left" factional fight. She gets to be the token zionist on the Guardian staff.
No, she doesn't and hasn't for years.
What got left out of the conversation is that the Jews *_bought_* land when they returned to the land of Israel. When you buy land, that isn’t “kicking” someone out of their home. The creation of a country, and people’s individual homes, are two different things. Thats why millions of Arabs live in Israel. Their individual homes are Palestinian land in a Jewish country. Just like the home of a Palestinian Brit is Palestinian land in a British country. Many Palestinians however fled Israel to get out of the way of the Arab countries that invaded Israel in 1948. That isn’t Israel kicking anyone out of anything.
An "honest conversation" between three non-experts on the issue, including a guest who's "expertise" in quite frankly anything at all is most generously described as questionable.
You're only saying that because you're incapable of disputing a single point that she made.
Prove me wrong. Choose one point that she made and show why it's wrong.
Oh, you can't.
@@MrJREllmanShe’s never said anything entirely wrong, but she has made claims that ridiculous. Jews did have a presence there, but there were even Muslims and Christians with a presence there. Having a presence means jack shit. If you aren’t living there, it was never your home.
Although “Palestinian” didn’t exist as a term, there were definitely people lived there with governance under the Ottoman empire before its defeat in WW1.
It’s next to a massive body of fresh water. There were definitely people living there surrounded by plenty of civilizations. They just weren’t called “Palestinians”. They were Ottomans before 1917. But there were still people living there.
@@MrJREllmanAs other comments here have pointed out, she originally claimed Konstantin was wrong about everything he said, then later mentioned that Jews always had a presence there, then later mentioned that Jews started “coming back”.
That all seems awfully contradictory. If they already had a presence there, who was coming back? And isn’t that exactly what Konstantin pointed out in the beginning?
She kept objecting to everything Konstantin said about what happened, but she blatantly lied here somewhere. Konstantin essentially pointed out that they were living there 2000 years ago so they believe it’s their right. Which she says he was wrong about but clearly essentially believed. Nothing she said contradicted the idea that she believed Israel is essentially a bunch of people who had ancestors living there 2000 years ago and are now starting to take it back. In fact, the fact that she called it their “homeland” suggests she clearly believes… exactly what Konstantin had said: that since their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago, that they have a right to the land.
@@virgodem I think she was making the point that there have always been Jews living there. Not just 2000 years ago but since. As she said they were called Palestinians since the Roman empire renamed the region.
@@virgodemYou just sprayed a dozen half criticisms without making a single point.
If you can just choose one point that you disagree with, it will look less like you're just desperate to find something, anything that you can to disagree with.
But I'll pick on the one thing that is nearly a point in your comments: the statement that because Jews always had a presence in the land, they couldn't have come back. Most Jews were ethnically sent into exile by the Romans but a small number remained. The land was considered holy and a homeland by the Jews for 2,000 years; both those Jews that remained and those that didn't. Those that didn't remain, finally returned after the holocaust.
Where is the contradiction in that?
"The jews never left, they always came back" is a strange statement 😖
Yah what they came back for vacation? So they don’t live there anymore. Wtf does that even mean lmao
@@AtracBreezy yeah I don't know how you come back to somewhere you never left.🤷
Lol, like you couldn't say the same about Arabs. Gee, it's almost like her entire argument is nothing but the special pleading fallacy and an appeal to emotion. XD
Mass delusions are not known for their logical consistency. "Next year in Jerusalem" is proof that we always intended to return to the land we never left.
@@peterblanch2603They were taken away as slaves.
Once u commit violence, u can only expect retaliation.
What a mess.
Very good. What words come out of our mouth and what we put down on paper can also be hard to take back in the future. Think hard before proceeding!
vis pacem para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war
@@joshm7279A man of culture I see.. Hannibal Vs Scipio😉
very true for both sides, and that is exactly why this mess is happening in Israel right now.
Free Palestine and give it back to Greater Syria 🇵🇸🇸🇾✨✊
Great conversation.
Melanie is absolutely awesome, and i use that word in the genuine sense, she speaks with great eloquence and truth.
Moreover, Melanie, it is important to add that they maintained a continuous presence since the Romans exiled them.
With the hospitality of the Muslims.
@@fredhall6525If you consider progroms and being considered a “dhimi” “hospitality”
@@privateprivate4315pogroms. And it was not the Muslims’ house in which to be hospitable. They’re from the Arabian peninsula.
Again, that means nothing and isn't a good argument. So did the Caananites after the Israelis tried to gncde them. According to genetic research most Palestinians are descended from Caananites and other indigenous peoples. "There were Jewish people on the land" does not mean "this land is thus only for Jews." even in the torah and bible, Jews are not native to modern day Israel or Palestine. Moreover, "we wusz here furst" is not a good argument to begin with, because that would mean 99% of modern nation states are invalid or have the right to conquer or take large parts of other nations.
@@privateprivate4315 I consider it a whole lot better than the inquisition. It was the Ottomans who send their own navy to pick up the Jews fleeing from Spain. It was the Germans that comitted the Holocaust. It was the Russians that persecuted the Jews relentlessly. Muslims by enlarge have been far better hosts to jews than Christians.
Think of the world if every group who lived somewhere 2,000 years ago showed up with guns and reclaimed that land?....
That would be awful; good thing it's not at all what happened.😆
Think if all the native Indians from US and Canada where to do this. We don’t have to go back 2000 years only a-few hundred for gods sakes. Bla bla bla this doesn’t give the right for the Zionist to commit the mistreatment that had been bestowed onto them. Sickening the power, money and corruption that backs this endless unrest.
@@KathyPrendergast-cu5ciThe Nakba, the 1948 catastrophe???!!!
Which other groups can you think of that have cultural and social continuity from 2000 years ago that don't already assert those rights in the way you say?
@@rashidsalis619 It was a catastrophe only for the side that lost, but losing’s like that. No doubt the Axis powers felt it was a catastrophe when they lost WWII. But they’ve picked themselves up and moved on.
Correction: Israel was not “given in compensation for the Holocaust”; during and immediately following the Holocaust the British (colluding with certain types of Arabs) denied Jews entry. A Jewish homeland was declared by the Balfour Declaration in recognition of Jewish contributions during WWI. Also, israel was conquered by the Assyrian, Babylonian, Hellenic, Roman, Islamic and Ottoman Empires, but none was a nation or state in the land of Israel. Even the one Muslim ruler, salahadin, was a Kurd, not an Arab.
What she says is 100% true!
Even in India, they want to occupy every land possible
You two need to start a news channel. Far more trust in you than BBC
It has been confirmed that Benjamin Netanyahu let this happen on purpose as a pretext to eliminate Gaza from the map.
This will solidify his leadership position for a long time which is what he really wanted.
BBC is the UK Pravda like the NY Times
This lady is full of boo boo.
UK & US based on Israel? 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
The Jews were in Israel until AD 70, when the Romans kicked them out during the Jewish Revolt.
R
You need to look into them abit more.
I felt she became highly defensive when Kisin challenged her after the mid way mark. I also disagree with her statement that 'the Jews were there first so it should belong to them'.
Read some European history lady, most of Europe had different 'owners' as it were throughout history.
Here in Canada, according to her reasoning, we should return ALL land to the Indigenous, if they ask / demand it...? . It came across to me that I think she is biased. (big time).
And, according to her logic, she should be kicked out her house in the UK to make way for the descendants of the ancient Britons - the Welsh, Corniche, etc.
And indigenous Native Americans should rise up and take back their land to kick out the white msn who stole their land and placed them on reservations. Her logic
I wonder if she stands by her statement that 'the Arabs didn't want a country of their own', the levels of self delusion are off the scale.
Didn't the Jewish people kick out the Canaanites from that area originally? What about Canaanite rights?
Yes, did she forget the Canaanites?
"They never left", "they always came back" arent you suppose to leave in order to come back?
Jews were ethnically cleansed, the Arabs left. But Jewish presence always remained in the land
Kicked out and came back
I'd just like to bring up the fact that the closest genetic match to the DNA recovered from the Bronze age people in this region is from the modern population of people identifying as "Palestinians". Ashkenazi Jews do have close genetic ties to the local Bronze age population, but with a higher admixture of European DNA which is understandable.
So Modern Palestinians and Modern Israelis are descended from roughly the same population of people that lived in the area during the Bronze Age. With the Palestinians having less outside admixtures in their DNA. Same people, just that their religious identity diverged over the centuries.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say - this dispute will be solved via might-makes-right.
😀 I’m going to go out on a limb and say my money is on my curly sideburn friends.
Agreed. It's ultimately what both sides believe in.
Ultimately, that’s the backup strategy for most disputes.
Oh, I love might makes right!😊. Why don’t people adopt that thinking? Go ahead, and wear the villain hat, I say. You’ll get things done in a jiffy
"God is on the side not of the heavy battalions but of the best shots." - Voltaire And the best shots in the ME are and always have been the IDF.
How can a people who went across the world, mixed with others, and many don't even practice the common religion, claim a land that theh hadn't ruled in 2000 years?
Because they feel entitled, and should be given whatever they want because of the holocaust
Palestinian ruled to there for 2000 years?
Until 1967 it was Jordan and Egyptian land.
Where's the cutoff for when you're no longer entitled to your homeland?
@@user-qn9tm8yp5b agreed, as a white european male forced out of africa millenia ago, i will claim back what is rightfully mine
@@user-qn9tm8yp5b Exactly.
She says Palestine wants Israel gone but it seems Israel has nearly got rid of Palestine.
That's incredibly stupid. Desire to do something is not the same as one's ability to see it through. Just because the Palestinian Arabs haven't been able to wipe out all of the Jews does not mean they have no desire to do so. They've repeatedly made that sentiment clear, and their recent actions (and plenty others before that) very thoroughly demonstrate their intentions. Israel is certainly far from innocent of wrongdoing, and I don't like many of the ways they've treated their neighbors, but they actually have the power to completely wipe them off the map and have thus far refrained from doing so, and unlike the Palestinian Arabs (or at least Hamas, whose rise I will point out was partially backed and funded by Israel to beat tue PLO whom they considered a greater threat, ironically enough), Israel actually attempts to warn civilians of impending attack to minimize civilian cashalties. Regardless of how you look at this, this is not a bad guys versus good guys scenario. Like most wars, it's bad guys versus worse guys (I'll leave you to decide for yourself who is which) with good and bad reasons for grievance and the countless piles of innocent dead bodies from both sides in the wake of the endless violence and chaos.
The only reason a single Palestinian remains in Palestine is because of pressure on Israel not to exterminate them. Israel has taken a very long approach and eventually there will be no Palestinians in Palestine at all.@@Tyler_W
@@nathanmagnuson2589 Bollocks!
The Jews suffered under nazis not too long ago and now are sadly the perpetrators. The victim has become the perpetrator. The cycle continues and The Almighty is watching
Learning history is not your strong suit.
@triggerpod
Great job with the interview!
Glad you pressed her as hard as you did with Neil Degrasse Tyson. I mean, usually mouthpieces for the Israeli government have to pay you for your inquiries. Plus all of that research you did must've made your head hurt.
What could be more Triggering than bringing on Mohammed Hijab, Hamza Tzorsis, Mehdi Hassan, or other pro- palestinian voices?
8:50 Hang on, hang on... How can they "come back" if they "never left the land" ?
I feel like I'm getting half a story....
most were kicked out, but there were a minority still in place... basicly think london current day vs 30 years ago...
One minute she says "Palestine" was invented by the Romans @3:40, then she says there was no Palestine until it was invented in the 1960s @11:15. Maybe I'm not drunk enough to understand this.
100% spot on
Palestine was renamed by the romans but there were no peoples called Palestinians. Ottoman Turks ruled for the majority post millennium, bar the 7th century (I think), and after World War One the League of Nations gave Britain the land.
She's a well known rightwinger who is lying.
@@garygranato9164the land was dubbed “Palestine” by the romans as an insult to the Jews. The name comes from Philistines, the ancient enemy of the Jewish kingdom from antiquity. It would be like naming Seoul “Tokyo”, which would be extremely offensive to a Korean.
In contrast, the Palestinian “nation” is a vert recent invention.
It’s the difference between the piece of land, called Palestine for centuries, and the grouping of people called Palestinians. Those are not the same, and did not arise at the same moment.
I hope this clarifies what she was saying.
Check a map. There is no Palestine.
I don't know the names of these guys, but the one asking why should the Jews have claim to the land when they haven't owned it for so long, but then you'll have people who probably have the same opinion also say that Aboriginal peoples of a land, for example, in Australia, should be given back ownership of their land. If it is true that the land was stolen from the Jewish people, then maybe the land does belong to them.
Anyway, one thing I do know is that most people who are not Jewish or Palestinian have no real clue as to what's gone on and what's going on, yet everyone thinks they know so much compared to everyone else. It's crazy seeing people point the finger at those who have a different opinion to them, claiming that they know nothing when the finger pointer also probably knows nothing. All I know is that innocent people are being killed and it shouldn't matter which country they are in or what their nationality is.
Maybe you could also interview Professor Norman Finkelstein too.
Yes. I seen him speak in Belfast. Genuinely unbiased discussion.
She is referring to the Israelites, sons of Jacob and not a land of Israel.Also forgetting that being of a religion does not always mean you have historical connections and rights to land.
If you are white and live outside of Europe, you should go back to Europe.
You really should pick up a Bible and read it.
Plenty of non Jewish records that establish their continous presence there from ancient times. Incl records of explusions and attempts to take it back and return in late antiquity.
The jews have more rights to Israel the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many other countries that butchered the locals and took over the land and called it their country. Why don't millions of these people go back to their original land and give it back yo the indigenous people? The turkes used to inhabit the land as well, it does make it their either.
Also the fact that jews in the west are highly mixed ethnically. "I am 12% jews, so I have the right to a land neither I nor 3 generations back have ever been to".
So, what other peoples have an unalienable right to claim a piece of land as theirs, for all eternity? How far back do they have to go to prove their ownership? And more interestingly, who will arm and finance them in their claim?
Hamas claims an "unalienable" right to kill Jews as they are the enemy of G_d. Very different.
We already accept that the indigenous people of every land colonized by Europeans have an inalienable right to it. Don't we? The Jewish people are the indigenous people - or at the very least, certainly ONE of the indigenous people - of the land formerly called Palestine. They pre-dated the first Arabs in the region by at least 1000 years. Over 75% of that territory, Jordan, is now occupied and governed by Arabs. No Jews are even allowed to live there. So why is the Jewish people's right to the tiny remainder so contested?
@@KathyPrendergast-cu5ci not necessarily. If an actual country was there then more so yes. Nomadic tribes have no claim to any land. Native American tribes hated each other and constantly took over and lost territory. Look up what the comanches did to peaceful tribes who did settle and grow crops. It’s all a mess with no easy answers but violence like we just saw should always be condemned.
@@KathyPrendergast-cu5ci It is simpler than that: If you had to live in the ME - where would you choose? There is literally only one place. I'd prefer that option to no places.
Ultimately, all of it is, in a way, irrelevant now, because we're in 2023 now and people live where people live.
We can't go back to 500 BCE just like we can't go back to the 1920s.
What we currently have is a functioning Israeli state that is a country with people in it whose neighbors have officially committed to wiping off of the face of the earth and killing every man, woman, and child. Even if Israel wanted to make peace, that hatred is not going anywhere because it's largely based on religion and history.
So their options are to leave or defend themselves.
Does anyone know the best written historical text that lays out the timeline & facts (names, dates, events, etc.) she gives in this wonderful outline?
The problem is, that in the Middle East, like in Africa there was no concept of "nations". It's all tribal. Colonialism is what invented the concept of "states" and "nations". In the Middle East, France and Great Britain drew the maps and assigned countries and basically gave it to the most dominant tribe or "family" at the time. Palestine was no different, it was run by "Hamoolas" (An Arab term for big families or tribes) National identity did not exist, that's what Ms. Phillips refers to as "There wasn't a Palestinian people"...
"They alone had ruled it"
After saying countles groups ruled it
"occupied" "invaded" ... etc, pretty basic english
Isrrael is an aparttheid regime.
Sue contradicts herself repeatedly. On one occasion she says they never left, and later she says they returned. How can someone return without first leaving? She is illogical in her argument.
@@Shankar-Bhaskar like basic english there is basic history
as a nation Israel was the only nation that ruled it. Others ruled the land as a part of a greater empire, such as the Ottoman Turks, The Roman Empire, ect.
She gave herself away by misrepresnting his argument as soon as she spoke it literally took seconds. She added the whole "had no connection to". Nobody said that. Better to argue against that than the whole balfour declaration bit eh.
Not only that, her assertion that the Jewish nation back then were the same people as today's Jews is asinine. Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews from Europe have a small portion of their ancient Levantine heritage from that region. They are heavily admixed with European and Turkic ancestry. It would be like the very mixed Hispanics of Latin America claiming rights to Spain while ignoring their native American and even African heritage.
@@danielstockley5631Great Analogy and makes logical sense. Impressive!!!
Exactly. We want to know what legal claim do these people have to go in and take people out their homes today. She knows she has no argument
My thoughts exactly
I agree with you all.
Melanie Phillips is in the great tradition of public intellectuals who has the guts and piercing intelligence to speak the truth on any number of issues, always ahead of time he times. Orwell wsd the same🎉
Two things I come back to is that, forget the Jews having ancestral land rights, Jew were living in this area (we could call Palestine) prior to the formation of Israel. Sure, many Jews did immigrate but its not like there were none there. Second, no one is bitching about how much of "Palestine" was given to Jordan. Why aren't we looking to free Palestine from Jordan rule?
That was an excellent explanation from the Jewish point of view. Would it be possible to have a guest with a point of view from the Palestinian side, just for fairness.
I bet not. Her take is extremely biased & they ate it up.
They gave the Palestinian view at the beginning.
@@ruthhorowitz7625and then didn't attempt to defend it at all.
Pretty biased I'd say.
This is where it began .. islam attacking Jews and Christians, continues today and until Islam dominates the world
كتاب الجهاد والسير32 The Book of Jihad and Expeditions
(21)Chapter: Expulsion of Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula(21) باب إِخْرَاجِ الْيَهُودِ وَالنَّصَارَى مِنْ جَزِيرَةِ الْعَرَبِ
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say:
I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
وَحَدَّثَنِي زُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، حَدَّثَنَا الضَّحَّاكُ بْنُ مَخْلَدٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ جُرَيْجٍ، ح وَحَدَّثَنِي مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ رَافِعٍ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُ - حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ جُرَيْجٍ، أَخْبَرَنِي أَبُو الزُّبَيْرِ، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ جَابِرَ بْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، يَقُولُ أَخْبَرَنِي عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ " لأُخْرِجَنَّ الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَى مِنْ جَزِيرَةِ الْعَرَبِ حَتَّى لاَ أَدَعَ إِلاَّ مُسْلِمًا " .
Just read their scripture and you'll see the other point of view. It's not very nuanced.
so based on what she said, native Americans have a "HISTORIC RIGHT" to the the the continent known as America and must take it all back I guess?
she makes ZERO sense
Many ppl agree with that tho and say we’re on stolen land. The difference is wars and battles were fought and the Americans and Jews won. The historic right is more of a response to the ppl who say Jews have no connection to the land. But at the end of the day whoever conquers wins.
Instead they support the occupiers
Read the oldest complete history of a group of people who left Egypt and kicked out the occupying peoples and settled in the eastern end of the Mediterranean, it’s all in a book called the Holy Bible.
I don’t see a way out of this. It’s such an awful situation.
It can't be an honest conversation if one has a bias
You could honestly tell you has bias, and conversation go on.
That's a rubbish statement. That's like saying you can't have a valid argument about the Nazis unless one side supports the Nazis equally, and disregarding the facts.
I think it can, if one is honest about one's bias. But the logical conclusion of a discussion between people with an opposing bias is that they end up agreeing to disagree. How to resolve the problem from there? Both sides have to accept compromise - then it can become a good faith negotiation. IN THEORY
@@ashbrown1212 In that case, value is in public discussion. You see biases, and can judge both sides.
Mr Hitchens said it best .. "Religion has a veto on these lands." There can't be a compromise when God or Allah has told you, "You have a divine right to these lands.
gosh thank you, where is the Hitchens of the day that hasn’t lost their mind?
I worship the sun God and he owns the earth so I own this planet.
Zionist are secularists. Their claim cites the Bible. Palestinians are not only Muslims. Their claim is not a religious one. Their claim is that they have been cleansed from their homes. Whether you call them Palestinians or nothing at all, they lived there.😊
There's more to the Jewish people's right to that land than religion.
@@dalethomasdewitt- Yeah me too.
@11:20 Thing is is could be argued Arabs didnt want Jews to suddenly establish the land they both lived on as belonging to Jews because of what we see happening now where Palestinians have been pushed out.
I think ‘Palestinians’ have pushed themselves out? It was only ever a safe place for ‘Jews’, evident by the fact an Arab Muslim could be President. It was effective a name change and a safe haven in a largely empty wasteland, why kick off against that unless you’re prejudice by nature?
There are over a million Israeli Arabs that are full citizens.
What you are saying is simply not true.
Ask the question, if Hamas had layed down tbker weapons before the attack on Israel,.what would have happened? If the Israelis had laid down thier weapons before the attack happened, what would the result be?
"Honest" is a stretch on this one, guys.
I hope there will be another interview with someone of Palestinian decent and points of view
Yes, exactly.
I doubt that.
I wish they will bring in someone from Palestinian this was what came into my mind because is good to hear from both side
What would be the point of that ! It sounds to me you have made up your mind giving your ton 🤔
@@rgs6236Because it's fair to hear both sides. Don't you think?
Love this conversation when you here it first hand from.
That's absurd!!!! If anyone considering your urgument, then there must be some other people before Jews in the land! If they also recalled it back! And again do you agree if Italian (Roman empire), Turkey (ottoman empire) or many others empire reclaim their own territory, it's really absurd term the "Jewish homeland" it's a racist Idea and ...
She got real fidgetty when she got a glimpse of her own lies.
what were her lies? and how do you know they were lies?
Everything she said is accurate and true.
@@directorscompany379 She made light of the 700k non-Jew inhabitants in the area in the early 1900s (that had ancestor that had been there for centuries) making the viewer think that it was no big deal to move them off their homes and land.
Except she left a whole lot out. Omissions are lies.
A decent overview but just a couple of points. When the Mandate was established under The League of Nations, the British renamed the area Palestine as a homage to the Romans who had changed Judea to 'Syria Palaestina' as a slight to the Jews when Hadrian crushed their uprising, expelling a large part of the population to ensure it could never happen again. Under the Ottomans, the area was known as South Syria and encompassed modern day Israel and Jordan. Arabs were granted tracts of land by the Ottoman Caliphate to create homesteads, after 3 years they had to pay tribute to the Caliph or lose that land which they never actually owned - They were moved in to the area from neighbouring Arab lands in small numbers, the census of 1882 showed just over 220,000 Arabs across the whole of modern day Israel and Jordan. As Melanie rightly points out, far bigger Arab migration to the area came in the 20th Century when the Jews were rebuilding their soon to be independent state which offered job opportunities which were far better than in the other Arab lands. Furthermore, when Israel was recreated, the constitution of the country stated equality for all citizens irrespective of background which continues to this day - 20% of Israeli citizens are of Arab background and serve at all levels of society, from the Health Service to government, judiciary and even the IDF. Those 'Palestinians' (A Term created in the 60's by PLO leader, Yasser Arafat) who scream about oppression have rejected Israeli citizenship and live under their own rule, in Gaza under Hamas and in Judea & Samaria (Known as 'The West Bank' after renaming by The Jordanians during their 1949-67 occupation) under the PA. Both were given autonomy under the terms of The Oslo Accords in the 90's, an agreement that the Arabs reneged on less than 48 hours after they signed it whilst Israel still honours the terms
That may be the most precise historical explanation I’ve heard! Thank you
Thank you for these insights. Far too many indoctrinated, opinionated know-nothings airing their non-views on this topic.
Can you tell me when the Palestinian leadership rejected Israeli citizenship? After the 1967 war Israeli citizenship was only granted to a few people in the conquered territories (mainly E. Jerusalem and the Golan). The people of the West Bank and Gaza were not (and never were since IIRC).
That is the big sticking point for the Israelis. They don't want Jews to be a minority in the country, hence the populations of Gaza and the West Bank being perpetually "occupied" rather than incorporated into the Israeli republic.
Omg civilisation is lost, and pity the Palestinians that have to suffer the consequences of these narratives 😢😢😢 We are so lost
"Israel still honors the terms"... Hilarious. What is there for Israel not to honor? Did it set a boundary between 2 countries? No. Did it have to hand over the external security to Palestinian authorities? No. They only had to give up the civil administration of a portion of what they occupied, in return of recognition from PLO and int community. Reverse the same deal to Palestinians and they'd happy to 'honor' it as well.
I have literally never heard anyone say that the Jews had "no connection" to the land of Israel/Judea. Not once. That is really not the issue that people see with the expansion of Israel and its relationship to Palestine.
literally not true. i hear it said by Palestinians all the time.
Are you serious??? 🤣🤣🤣🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤡🤡🤡
Modern Jews have almost no connection to the land. Read Shlomo Sand- the invention of Jewish people.
Unfortunately quite common if you dig deeper than the surface - specifically one has to ask Palestinians or those close to the area rather than Western leftists, because they are at the end of the day completely irrelevant to this conflict.
The "occupation of 48" or similar terms are not uncommon, just not publicly said in English because they don't sound good to the Western ear.
Palestinians are allowed to live in Israel as free and equal citizens. So what is the problem with Israel expanding? Arabs are more free in Israel than they are in any Arab country.