"Child of Rage" and Fake Therapists for Reactive Attachment Disorder | Beth Thomas Case Analysis
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2023
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze case of Beth Thomas and discuss Reactive Attachment Disorder?
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I was diagnosed with RAD as a child when my adoptive mother got me at 4. I received therapy and my mom took many steps to help me feel secure and socialize me. Every year I got better and I’m lucky I had her, I came from a home full of drug addicts who would do really horrible things.
So glad to hear your Mom took the proper steps to support you and give you the help, comfort and services you deserve!
I know that there is always the ability to change! I am so happy for you! Children are a product of their environment.
Thank goodness you found your adopted mother and family, who loves you and gives you the support you need. ❤
So sorry you had to experience that but so glad you were blessed to have a mom to get you the proper care! Thank you for the happy ending story. So often don't hear those with RAD kids
So glad you had her love and support! ❤
I was horrified after watching the Beth Thomas documentary, She seemed to fall into the category of becoming a future serial killer. But it appears she has made a success in her adult life..Thanks Dr Grande.
I love for shirt Dr.G
You must not have watched all of it.
@@polarbearsrus6980 I did. I mean prior to any intervention she was pretty horrendous.
There's a CZcams video of her grown up which would be nice if it weren't for her weird psychological practices.
@@mclovin6039Who are you to judge what's "weird"?
“RAD should be the focus of treatment, not the focus of moral judgement .” Your calm, educated understanding of these disorders is why we come here.
Thanks, Doc.
1. When does Dr. Grande sleep?
2. How much coffee does he drink?
3. Does he need therapy from all the horrible movies and CZcams videos he’s watched for making these?
🤣🤣🤣
And what about the cacti?
Lol 😂
Minimal sleep, no coffee just water, nope.
My thoughts entirely!
My youngest daughter is adopted from China. She is now an adult and has autism and ADD, but early on we had one doctor who insisted on RAD and various “therapies” he prescribed/ offered. International adoption he immediately went with RAD. My best advise is not to take the word of one doctor, especially when you aren’t comfortable with what they are saying and it’s obvious they don’t know your child. She is doing well and never displayed any aggressive or dangerous symptoms.
I think Dr. Grande has errored in claiming that RAD can be accompanied with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. RAD has no aggressive or violent features.
Always get a wide varieties of opinions and diagnoses if possible, that's what I take away from that. Doctors aren't always perfect people who always know what's best. I hope your daughter is happy and thriving today, especially because women and girls are too often mistreated and undervalued in her birth country
As a foster child myself, one home I lived in around 1990 my foster brother was subject repeatedly to RAT at the local clinic. Many times I would sit in the waiting room and the ensuing chaos spilled into the hallways with kids kicking and screaming and crying for hours on end, literally after walking in behaving just fine. And he never really acted badly at home or school either, it was as if the foster mother, who had adopted him, was looking for reasons to give him psychotherapy when in reality it was her bad behavior and false perceptions that were the cause of all of it. The more that I think of it, that "Child of Rage" documentary likely did a lot more damage to foster children in general, by applying a label that these children are a sort of damaged merchandise and should be avoided when looking to adopt. A perception that is actually quite widespread to this day.
A lot of these mothers are narcissistic. I had a foster mother who ended up in a mental institution for munchhausen by proxy and NPD as far as I know. I was living somewhere else already when she was admitted. She got attention for "saving" me from a childrenshome and then for how terrible I am. She told people how terrible my parents were, which were lies. My parents died and I couldn't be adopted in the family due to part of my family being sick and the other part living in a different country... I was never mistreated.
She hurt me, hit me, s3xually abus3d me and when I showed antagonistic behaviour tried to pass me off as a sociopathic and severly damaged child. But she was the cause of this behaviour which changed when I moved away from her.
Fast forward I went into a childrenshome again and was diagnosed with ptsd, depression and anxiety. I had brainscans, mri and eeg at 17 and both came back normal. My brain shows zero signs of sociopathy/psychopathy. I still have ptsd from my foster mother. And she still runs around "saving" animals 🤦♀️
Unfortunately you will find people with high NPD traits as foster parents often.
@@danika9411im so sorry this happened to you 😢 I wish you much health and happiness! God bless your soul dear I hope you are doing great today and are safe 🙏
Over decades of counselling I have known many mothers who deliberately cultivate personality problems in their children, most often in their boys. And my fellow therapists who are nearly all female fail to see what is going on, and for the few who do see what is going on they do not do anything about it. They certainly do not tell the mother that they can see what she is up to.
@@danika9411 Agreed. Ive seen similar in my family and so have many, many others I knew in the foster system. Its as if the mother is trying to transfer her mental illness to her children and the narcissism is the primary mechanism for this. Other people whom I know who have held jobs at the local child and adolescent behavioral hospital have observed this as well.
It is like an emotional death or our soul dying, to be forced on medication, & accused of being dangerous. But some need the paycheck, & can be justified in their own mind.
Unbelievable damage done to humans of all ages by severe childhood trauma.
And arrogant doctors
Cheesey bum fluff.
Cheesey bum fluff.
@@sparklemotion8377I would also say 'abusive'.
That's absolutely terrifying! One doctor told us that our now 40 year old son had RSD. After looking into treatment, we thought it was barbaric and walked away from that diagnosis. We then discovered that he has ASD. He's doing well now.
Oh my gosh, that's scary. Good for you guys !
I wonder how many children with asd got misdiagnosed....
@@danika9411 the thought horrifies me.
Kinda terrifying how subjective psych diagnoses are, innit? Glad he's doing well.
What is ASD?
I’ve been a day treatment teacher with traumatized kids resulting in severe Behaviour and emotional issues for many years. The standard protocol is to be unfailing kind, consistent and supportive. Most of these children dealt with horrific abuse and trauma. Our tx was successful the majority of the time. It was frustrating when kids would make progress and it would all be undone once they were returned to their parents. Emotional dysregulation caused by horrible situations is the underlying issue, not evil!
I work with traumatized adults. Kind, consistent and supportive is the basis of my practice too. One guy nailed it when we were finishing our work together - you see me as a person, not a problem.
many people should not be parenting
The generational trauma aspect is so real too. Because the parents are usually also experiencing emotional dysregulation caused by their own horrible experiences 😭
My husband had an extremely difficult time with parenting originally, because he would almost constantly be stuck in this cycle of dissociation punctuated by explosive overreactions to mundane things like a spilled drink. And seeing someone he loves in some type of distress was completely unbearable for him emotionally. So he would react to something like a skinned knee in ways that were, from a child's perspective, callous and terrifying.
He was intentionally putting his kids through a lot of the stuff that he went through. He finally had some type of come to Jesus moment a few years ago, and got really into emotional regulation therapy and childhood trauma recovery.
The impact of his improvement (among other things) on the kids has been *substantial* , which has been amazing to witness. My (now) 15yo stepson was an extreme people pleaser when I met him at age 11yo. This kid was a ball of perfectionistic anxiety living in a constant state of fawning. But he's steadily grown to be secure, assertive, and very emotionally intelligent.
When he was 13, he assertively told his father "When you say things like that to me, it makes me feel like you think I'm stupid. And I am *not* stupid." It was _flawless_ ! I still get chills when I think about it.
When dad started intervening on his near constant survival mode, everyone else was able to start shifting out of their own near constant survival mode and life got so much better.
Parent/caregiver intervention is _crucial_ for kids who are dealing with all kinds of internal strife (that often manifests as "behavioral issues"). Unfortunately, not every parent/caregiver is capable of enough insight to recognize that they need to work on their own behavior for the sake of their children, let alone figuring out exactly what their own problem behaviors are 😔
I suspect that your program attempts to work with the parents/caregivers too, but it's probably really difficult to get through to a lot of them. Which really, really sucks 😔
That said, it _is_ really important to resist the urge to dehumanize the parents and just see them as evil (even when their behavior is undeniably evil). Because trying to be compassionate and to see the small glimmers of potential in them yields the best odds of getting through to them.
Unfortunately, that's far easier said than done. Especially when you're building bonds with these innocent kids who are subjected to heartbreakingly awful treatment.
Very happy to hear Beth did so well in life! Dr. Grande’s stories so rarely end with a positive outcome.
I wouldn't call Beth a success story, because she is one of handful, out of thousands of survivors of Attachment Therapy, who has anything good to say about it. And as an adult she has promoted this potentially harmful practice.
@@lindarosa7707her whole life is tragic. While she’s improved I’m not surprised if she’s leaned toward more radical and controversial practices but she definitely is better.
I had no idea she had such an unexpectedly good outcome. I hope she's living a happy life. She worked hard for it and deserves it.
I worked at a therapeutic boarding school for teens and a number of the students there had been diagnosed with RAD. All of them were adopted and all of them had trauma from a very young age. Even now, there are at least two people in my life who were diagnosed with the disorder, and they were also adopted and experienced trauma. These kids need security and safety. Not to be broken-they’re already traumatized enough. Be a safe person for them, help them understand healthy attachments. I’m sad that these “therapist” insist these children are monsters. I had one student who had both a RAD and pre-BPD diagnosis. She needed stability and a safety net. Not for her spirit and will to be broken. I pray every day that the therapy she received helped her establish healthy relationship and helped guide her to a healthy and successful life.
The Beth Thomas case is such a horrific case. But her outcome in life is truly remarkable. Thanks Dr.Grande.
And her outcome in life is remarkable only because other people helped her, if they hadnt she was going to end up like her father which makes you wonder if her father was a child just like beth but unlucky enough to not receive help.
@@nl-ho4wm😢
@@nl-ho4wmWhoa. That's sobering and sad.
You clearly don’t know know much , you can’t recover from such thing ever
@alewolf7 well she seems to living a normal life now.
My good friend adopted a special needs child from Ukraine years ago. She had RAD, but she had the kind where the child will go to anyone because she was used to having so many different caregivers at the orphanage. She'd break away from my friend while in the mall & run up to hug literally anyone she saw. Since she didn't have the chance to form a bond with her birth mother or any ONE human, she sought comfort from literally any person near her. When my friend and her husband would have guests over, their daughter would go sit on the laps of anyone and everyone. Clearly, this is not ideal. Thankfully, through lots of work with my friend and her hubby, as well as years of therapy, she's a reasonably careful and discerning teen now. As she does have other comorbidities, she's still developmentally delayed (reads at about a grade 4 level), but she now knows to be cautious of strangers, which is a huge relief.
Keep with the supportive love and therapy. My nephew, also a Ukrainian adopted as a young child had several physical and mental delays. He is now a graduate from HS, working steadily, and incredibly physically fit. Best wishes.
People don’t understand how many people in corrections have horrific childhoods like Beth.
I totally agree, and I wonder why there is a massive gap of research, public information and documentaries on this very subject. Even investigative journalists won’t go anywhere on this subject. Very sad and it seems people lock this away in a “can of worms” mentality. Meaning they are happy with putting criminals in prison then leaving it at that. Understandable from the point of view of getting justice for victims. I also understand that the prison system is all about money and profit, in which investors would want to protect their bottom line.
The vast majority of people who suffer trauma never commit horrible crimes.
Bu the vast majority of people who commit horrible crimes have suffered trauma@@videoettaceo8900
Don't make excuses for people
Some people have misplaced empathy and make excuses for any prisoners and never for those who overcome it and never hurt anyone.
"You don't suffer if you don't hurt someone" kinda flawed emotional rationalisation.
I don't see the comment I had posted so forgive me if it's buried. I raised a severe RAD child. Many years of good counseling gave him the tools to live a normal life. I wouldn't go through it again though. It was horrific. These children cannot put into words the pain they feel because they are small children.
Same. No one gets it. No one. Unless you have adopted a child like this. I did. I was Blessed beyond comprehension to have had help for our kiddo from someone who knows Beth very well. Changed our lives 1000% for the better. Forever grateful.
I was very lucky to have been adopted by my mother, she did everything to help me as a child with RAD. I love her so much.
@@MonolithicCyanTsunami Beautiful comment from someone who knows. Thank you.
@@5dorkycastillosWe have an adopted son that has RAD. He is not doing well at all. He changed drastically when he hit 6th grade. He now is at a residential facility and comes home in 2 weeks. We are beginning to feel hopeless. What treatment worked for your child?
@@dierlamfamily My adopted daughter has RAD. She was removed from a bio home where she and her sister were subjected to many forms of abuse. She eventually began abusing her siblings and we felt the right thing to do was to remove her from our home. We found a school in Jamaica called YOVA, which stands for Youth Of Vision Academy. They are a Christian rehabilitation/therapy school for young ones with RAD. It is not cheap, around $3,500 p/month. She is seeing improvement now, showing brain scans that are visually improved, treating others with more respect and kindness. It has taken her over 2 years of intense restructuring and counseling to get to where she is now. RAD is something most people cannot fathom, so trust that you know better and the rest of the world's opinion doesn't really matter. They likely aren't living anything close to it. I'll pray for you and your family, I wish you well.
Hi Dr. Grande,
I'm currently finalizing my dissertation to graduate my Ph.D. program and I just wanted to thank you for videos covering criminal psychology. I must also thank you for the videos you made earlier about how to use research software. They helped me write my methodology section!
Hope you have a pleasant rest of your week.
Best regards
@maureensmith9923 Thank you!
Congratulations! You are so close to being a Doctor. Very cool
@@PamelaH_HappyVibes Thank you Ms. Pamela!
Congrats you🎉
Congratulations!!
Beth was dealt a hand to fold, yet she went all in and won the jackpot that is a stable life
I saw the documentary years ago, and it scared me to death. One segment that really stuck with me was the mother saying that she heard Beth’s little brother screaming in the basement, and ran downstairs, only to find Beth repeatedly hitting Jonathan’s head onto the concrete floor. She was able to stop Beth before Jonathan before he was too badly harmed. I often wonder what kind of life Jonathan has had as an adult. 😢
Why were such young children unsupervised in the basement?
@@BrendawallingbearI don’t agree with them being alone, but kids sneak
Off and get into things. I as a parent, wouldn’t not access to young ones to a basement
@@J_WheelerDoll30 I got the impression that they didn't go to the basement by their own choice.
Children with trauma who dont act like a timid mouse are deemed evil by society.
👍
We empathise with them (rightly so) if they are killed as a result of abuse but condemn them if they survive and become dysfunctional and criminal later on.
True. I feel bad for her brother but it is nice to see her doing much better.
@@Catlady07yeah i am aware of that, i have seen many people, who had trauma but they go to be good people in their lives, they don't take their anger out on anyone, just try to be a great person
@jesurenbnb You can be a good person and still not act like a timid creature, it's called fight, flight, or freeze and sometimes fighting is all we know.
Breaking the resistance sounds like breaking the spirit of the child. That's a heartbreaking concept.
yeah it's the same thing some (christian) books on child punishment teach. I forgot what it's called but there's a famous one that tells you to essentially beat your kid until they obey you or stop making noises
a lot of people still practice this too
@@SputterbugzQuiverfull and the authors are Michael and Debi Pearl. I was raised in this movement and I was taught all of this. That I had to be cheerful to cheer up my caregiver--even after being beaten to break my will. I think they based it all on this because it's very similar.
Yeah and there are reasons they develop these defenses
You hit the nail on the head, I have a brother who has R.A.D. He was adopted from Kazakhstan at age seven and when through 2 other adoptions before he came to our family. He was dangerous for several years from 7 to 12ish he was well behaved at school but predatory at home however through therapy, patience, prayers a year stent in a mental hospital and he began to develop into a normal young teenager. Today he is a paratrooper and is married.
Although her case is horrible, does anybody know what happened to her brother? There’s almost no information about him.
Yeah 😢 I feel like he went through so much as well and surely must have also needed a lot of help but nobody ever says anything about him
It would be so interesting to find out how he did as an adult, is he doing fine, does he have mental health issues or did he end up in trouble and crime.
I read he went to jail for child abuse.
I sincerely hope he did not sustain any brain damage from all the physical abuse his sister put him through, including repeatedly banging his little head onto a concrete floor.😢 He definitely went through a lot.
It says that he prefers to stay out of the spotlight and that he required lots of intensive therapy like his sister because not only did he also get abused by his father too but also by his sister.
Thanks for the upload, Dr. Grande! I need a break from this three-hour documentary on Chris Chan. We appreciate your hard work and most of us appreciate your deadpan morbid humor!
That’s nothing. Try the 40+ hour documentary on Chris Chan 😏
@@TimeTravelingAsshole There's a WHAT?!
Geno Samuel’s channel is up to 70 something one-hour each chapters on Chris Chan, and it’s not even up to 2020 yet.
I'm pretty sure Dr. Grande has a video on Chris Chan if you wanted to see that.
@@emmonsterd Oh my God. That's crazy! Thanks a lot!
So outrageous to know that this kind of nonsense therapy was permitted for such a long time; Hope this is not so any more
Good for Beth overcoming her difficult start. I have nothing but respect and admiration for people who can work their way through their own mental wilderness and find new clarity and purpose on the other side. What a triumph.
Didnt she get therapy/stable loving home later on as a child? Thats probably why she turned out okay
We suffer for your praise
I hope you are comfortable with her as your nurse.
@@burtreynolds3143 I am.
@@burtreynolds3143as a csa survivor, I would be more comfortable with her then the ppl who adopted her.
My daughter was adopted from China and she was diagnosed with RAD. From what I have learned, she had a very mild case, but she was still difficult. Thankfully we worked with a kind, patient therapist who actually trained us how to change our parenting style. Parenting her was completely different from our two older, biological children. She is now 17 and doing great. She has a ton of friends and she is loving and affectionate with her family.
I remember when this happened and also the 10 year old who died while going through a “rebirthing”. To be fair, there are children who act out when adopted. I knew two couples who adopted children that had terrible rage. One was a little boy, a toddler, who was adopted from a Romanian orphanage. Those orphanages in Romania were horrible. The second couple adopted a young boy out of the foster care system. He ultimately had to be placed into residential, therapeutic care after the parents woke one night and found him standing by their bed with a butcher knife. He also made threats about harming their other children. They did stand by the boy and considered him their son. I don’t know what ultimately happened with either child.
The whole RAD controversy reminds me of the “ repressed memories” therapy that was being pushed around the same time.
I had friends who adopted 2 children. Family history of ALS, so they chose not to have bio children. I thought the mom seemed a little detached...no idea if she would have acted differently with a biological child. Their son was a domestic adoption...he was 2 and had a rough life. He had behavior problems as he got older. Rather severe. He got sent to a wilderness camp as a teen. The daughter was also around 2, I think, from Romania. She was later diagnosed with shaken baby syndrome. I can't even imagine how awful the orphanage was. To my friend's credit, she did stick with the kids. I still see the daughter out and about with a caretaker sometimes. The dad ended up dying from ALS, so she did have her hands full.
Thank you for sharing this story. Children just don't have blueprint what one can handle destroys next. At least Love is Love in some Adoptions, despite illness that might propel more appropriate care, housing, like any other Family, they are Still Family. 🫂🤲🇺🇲
A good phase to think about when dealing with children with Attachment Disorders, “I know you don’t believe me when I say this but, you are safe, I am safe, and I am always here if you need me”.
It sounds like the social workers and the adoptive parents had hoped that Beth was young enough not to be greatly impacted, and when they realized how bad the trauma was they were completely overwhelmed. In that situation a desperate parent will latch onto anyone who seems like they have answers and could help. I've seen the same thing with "treatments" for autism peddled to parents who are struggling to cope.
Spot on!
I was a child when I saw the video of Beth’s parents holding her down when the Dr was trying to ‘treat’ her. Beth was screaming and honestly, I felt that was only harming her worse. I’m so happy to hear she has grown up to be a nurse. ❤
You never heard of the mean girl to nurse pipeline?
@@donotreply8979Preach! My karate instructor is unfortunately, also a licensed mental health counselor (and has been for over a decade)
He's also a psychopathic narcissist and a sadist. Listening to Dr. Grande's analysis was a perfect description of our therapy. Blame the victim for the very problems that they _sought out help/therapy_ to address.
Early on, he'd abused clients physically and verbally (as 'staff' at a few behavioral wilderness programs in Utah) Once he graduated with his master's degree in mental health counseling, he had the training (and credibility) to mentally, emotionally, and psychologically abuse, exploit, and gaslight clients into compliance and submission.
As a karate instructor, he taught me everything I know about how to defend myself in a life-threatening situation. The psychopathic insights and mindset he reinforced throughout our training has been my biggest asset throughout my "whistleblowing" process. On the other hand, the *psychological harm* he's inflicted on myself and multiple of my classmates/therapy clients is immeasurable.
It genuinely is a "trail of destruction" just as Dr. Grande says in his narcissistic & psychopathic emotional manipulation video (starting at roughly the 9 min mark)
I would be interested to know what field of nursing she went into. A psych nurse? ER nurse? ICU? Hospice? Pediatrics? Urology? (yikes)
Sorry for the random ramble but yeah, I agree. Just because Beth grew up and earned a nursing degree and license, doesn't mean she became an ethical, empathetic, adult.
she still has that one crazy eye tho'@@TherapyAbuse
@@TherapyAbuse I agree. I’ve met some nurses because of my chronic pain that shouldn’t be nurses because they honestly don’t care about their patients. I hope in her case since she’s a nurse that she isn’t like those types. I hope she is a better person. But I agree with you that just because someone has a profession where they are supposed to care for people, doesn’t mean they do.
This was one of the first "case studies" I did in college. Then a few years later, I worked with a little boy that reminded me very much of this case.
There have been many times I wished you could react and "not diagnose anyone" to some of the people I've worked with.
Thank you, Dr. Grande!
When I saw what this episode was about, I decided to watch some documentary videos about Beth Thomas first. I didn't see anyone blaming the "evil child". I saw they were observing and documenting her behavior; not blaming her. I have no reason to believe that narcissists and psychopaths are not made in horrible abusive environments where betrayal is the rule, not the exception. There's no other explanation that makes sense of it; since we have no free will.
@@troy3456789 Can you explain what you mean by having no free will?
There are so many philosophers who would furiously disagree.
As children we are limited in free will, but still can choose how we behave.
If we're damaged by a toxic upbringing, that limits our resources (mental/emotional, physical, and financial) but we still have the ability to make choices in how we behave in any given situation.
Is this the kind of thing you're talking about?
@@joanthompson5606That Troy guy is posting the same reply to every comment here. Just a troll I think.
My adopted sister was diagnosed w RAD/ ODD. It is heartbreaking to watch them go through life. Just walk away from people like they mean nothing to them.
I'd never heard of the diagnosis "Reactive Attachment Disorder" before watching this, but I remember the discussions revolving around the movie "The Bad Seed." At the time it came out (1956; a remake was made in 2018), the "nature vs. nurture" concept provoked a lot of heated discussion. Very interesting topic, Dr. Grande; thank you so much for giving us such thought-provoking content.
I loved the original The Bad Seed, I saw it as a kid even though it came out before my dad was even born. I loved it! But clearly a horror movie, not an educational tool.
I was actually cast in the original version...the stage play! I played the mother of the child that Rhoda murdered. I disagree with the comment below about it being a "horror movie, not an educational tool". This may be true in that whenever Hollywood sinks its teeth into a well-written stage drama, things often are changed; ergo, the intention of the original playwright is lost. If you understand stage plays and know how to read them, you can find the educational value hidden in the text. As an actor, having this understanding and knowledge is imperative to accurate character development, which will assist in telling the story correctly.
I can't wait to hear this. I watched that documentary and found it very disturbing.
My adoptive brother (7 years older than me) was adopted at 4 years of age from an orphanage in Erlangen, Germany when my parents and older sister (also 7 years older than me. Their birthdays were 10 days apart) were living in Naples, Italy. My parents moved back to the United States in 1969 and I was then adopted as a newborn.
I am pretty sure that my brother has attachment disorder. He never bonded with my parents or sister. He was obsessive with me. Frighteningly so. He sexually abused both my sister and me. He abused (killed) animals. Set our local grade school on fire. Broke into the neighbors house and stole their gun (if I recall correctly the neighbor was a police officer) and proceeded to hold my mom and I at gun point until the police arrived. He was 12 years old at the time. He was sent to juvenile detention for that stunt and I didn’t see him again until he was a junior in high school.
I had flashbacks of that incident and the SA for years until I got treatment. I am just sharing a portion of what he did. He ended up harassing me for a short time when I was in my early twenties. Showing up at my home unannounced when I hadn’t spoken with him in years. He smashed the windows out on my car and the flood lights on my townhome. The police were called again.
Ultimately he was arrested for the sexual assault of an underage person at the hospital he worked at as a medical assistant. I have no idea how he was able to pass a background check, or drug test for that matter.
When I got married at age 30, we didn’t do the usual wedding announcement in the newspaper. My entire family had cut him off years prior but I didn’t want to risk him knowing my married name. When we had a daughter we became even more cautious. Not paranoid. We just made sure we had a security system. 😉 I haven’t seen him in years. My dad keeps tabs on him through a private investigator friend but I haven’t asked him for any information. I don’t care as long as he isn’t near my daughter or me.
I do believe that whatever happened in that orphanage in Germany contributed to him being the way he is. Whether it was lack of physical contact as a newborn / toddler or if he was abused himself. He was never able to make friends or have relationships with anyone. He was always abusive to everyone he came across. Emotionally or physically. Would he have had a fighting chance if my parents had adopted him as a newborn? I’ve always wondered that. I will never know.
I just know that I had to let my anger and resentment towards him go before it took me down.
Spiritually, send your brother LOVE and let it go. I do not know what you (or he) are to gain from having had this experience- but I DO know that it is up to you to merely emanate the love you have.❤
This video was eye opening. It’s unbelievable that these attachment therapists you described essentially get away with blame if a child for their problems and abusing them to correct it. Thanks for covering this Dr. Grande.
this girl said some of the creepiest stuff ever caught on video
Yes
You can see the delight in her eyes when describing how she tortured her brother and pets. Just because she's an attractive nurse today doesn't mean she's so-called "cured." Dr. G's understandable disdain for quacks has little to do with her story, IMHO.
@@sunnycatc6491 YES!
@@sunnycatc6491 i would hit it tho.. with a long stick
@@sunnycatc6491 she is not cured
She is self aware and not a harm to society anymore
This reminds me of a documentary called about a boy. The grandmother insisted that he was psychotic and his mother wasn’t fit to take care of him. Turns out there was absolutely nothing wrong with him. She either set up a situation where he would act out or make things up. Even his school teachers were certain that he was completely normal.
These "attachment therapists" should be prosecuted for child abuse, as well as for enabling child abuse by parents.
I love all of your videos, but this was uniquely insightful. My mother was adopted and was teased at school growing up by kids they thought she couldn’t be normal. She was the kindest person I have ever known. Thank you for this detailed and fascinating analysis.
Kind of relieving to know she's now a happy looking grown up woman probably working in a hospital or something i'm not sure
Are you eating a hand in ur pic?
I remember this case, an incredible outcome, so happy for her. Good analysis, thanks Dr. G. for the update. ❤
My younger brother was diagnosed by a doctor with this disorder when we were in foster care. You’re absolutely right about it being co-diagnosed with ODD and ADHD as he was diagnosed with both. He has been through so many different forms of therapy and medications but nothing has worked enough to allow him to safely live on his own.
😢
Thank you for covering this. When I was younger I went to a pastoral counselor with an MFT. She was giving me all of these projection tests and told me after one session that I had experienced se* abuse as a child and had blocked it. Now I know how unethical this was. She also prayed during my sessions even though I was not comfortable with that. These people are wreckless.
I'm a Christian and had a mentor who seemed to good to be true. I did learn a lot from her. She told me what spiritual abuse was and encouraged me to break away from a rigid upbringing. That part was good. But, she told me she loved me more than my mother did. She hated my dad and insisted that something happened that I couldn't remember. Turns out she was the spiritually abusive one. I'm grateful to be free of a rigid belief system, but guess who was still there for me when things went badly south with my mentor? My "unloving" parents. I made peace with any issues I had with my dad before he died. He WASN'T abusive...I never did recover any real memories and I have clear detailed memories of the time period something supposedly happened. My mom is still alive. She wishes I shared her rigid beliefs, but she still loves me unconditionally and we are close.
Spiritual abuse is no joke. 😢
My younger child was a "difficult " child born during this same time. She was a challenge to raise and frequently defiant but I never thought she was evil or lacked a conscience. I'm also glad I ignored most social media of the time. Too busy working and raising children.
Yeah but Beth was killing animals and attacking family with knives. My child was difficult too but if he did this I would get him help
That interview of Beth and the doctor are astonishing, she really came a long way since her childhood. Thanks for sharing.
Dr Grande mentioned a ten year old girl was murdered during a “rebirthing” therapy. Her name was Candace Newmaker. That would make for a great separate video.
Doctor I might have had this disorder. My family of origin is so dysfunctional when I went to girl scout camp the first time I wrote to my parents like all the other little girls did. I told my parents I wanted to live there.😂 And when my parents came to get me when camp was over, I ran off and told them I didn't want to live with them any more in front of everybody. All the other little girls were running to their parents. I was only in third or fourth grade. My parents were so embarrassed.
I didn't want to leave camp, either! I was so angry when I went home that my Mom had a talk with me about it.
You are lucky you got to go to summer camp as a child. I'm an only child. My parents where so overprotective of me. I wasn't allowed to go to summer camp or school field trips, ever. My parents thought that something bad will happen to me. My mom told me if she had 5 kids I would be allowed to go. My dad picked friends for me to be friends with all the way through high school. As adult I'm picky and have hard time opening up to people.
@rimmalikover9724 I don't know which is worse. My parents did have 5 kids And they were "go play on the highway we're too busy for you" kind of parents Usually, the only way I got any kind of attention from my parents was with bad behavior
@@rimmalikover9724 Did you just try to one-up op's childhood trauma?😒
Thank you for covering this case. I recall watching part of the documentary and being so disturbed at how Beth was being "treated" that i couldn't watch the entire thing. Im happy to know she grew up and throved despite her "treatment" and "parents".
I’ve only ever seen the documentary: Beth has only ever been a tragic and frightening child. Of course she must have grown up, but we rarely hear about that. I’m glad she’s found success.
EDIT: Please please please please please never take your child to a clinician that claims they need to be ‘broken’ like a fucking horse
It's horse abuse too....
Not all horse breakers are created equal, you have to seek a reputable rural one like my foster parents did. I never got used to the ketamine suppository that the veterinary surgeon with the chubby digits administered to me on the morning of my 6 weekly appointment with the blacksmith to get a new set of shoes put on, but the farrier said he refused to work on me if I wasn't sedated after I started kicking & squealing when he'd pick my feet up. ( I cottoned on to them sprinkling ketamine powder into my feedbag of teff hay the morning of the farrier arriving & I'd refuse to eat it.) I was stubborn back then.
It’s scary to think how much damage these attachment “therapists” are doing. Children should be protected. Each state should pass a law to prevent unlicensed and untrained people from doing this type of work. Thanks for another interesting and important video, Dr. Grande! More people need to be aware of this.
Great job Doc!! I will be 45 next month, and I remember seeing this film. I thought it was called "Beth", but I'm mistaken. It scared the daylights out of me at the time, but as an adult who has been working in healthcare for over 20 years, you hit the nail on the head in every aspect of your amazing analysis. Now, the fact that there are "attachment therapists" scares the daylights out of me!
Beth Thomas is amazing for what shes been through and overcome.
Not only is she absolutely gorgeous, shes smart, self aware, and willing to share what she feels and what she went through.
She is a success story of proper rehabilitation, after trauma.
I am greatful to God she was able to heal
This made my heart hurt. I followed a You Tube channel where a Korean couple with two small sons, adopted a young boy from a Korean orphanage, where he was cared for by an older couple, who had fostered him. He never bonded with the mother who had expected him to behave perfectly, not accepting how hard he was grieving, and that all would be well in less than a year. I had to quit watching because it upset me so much to see her lack of affection for this child, and how she spent a huge amount of time trying to get a following of people to agree with her harshness and putting a time limit on his grief. She even counted the amount of diapers he used in a day, and was very irritated by it.😊
I'd be really interesting if you could analyse the pychology of the murderer Ben Field. His case has got a lot of attention in the UK recently as the BBC have made an acclaimed drama about it called "The Sixth Commandment". Ben Field was a university student who manipulated and murdered an elderly professor who had taught him at the university, by convincing him they were in a relarionship. He drugged him many times over several years and convinced him and others that he was seriously ill. He then tried to do the same with an elderly woman on the same street. All of this while telling several others he was in a relationship with them, with many other online hook ups. In both victim's cases, they were deeply religious and Ben Field used his position in the church to manipulate them. He wanted their money and convinced them to change their wills
Wow that is extremely disturbing to slowly destroy another person to steal their money, he must have a very bad case of psychopathy. To just murder someone feels less cruel.
@@teijaflink2226 absolutely. It's a very interesting case. The criminologist, professor David Wilson, has also written an excellent book about it called "A plot to kill". He looks into the killer and the world in which he operated. Really interesting stuff. He felt Ben Field was a psychopath, with extreme malignant narcissism, and that he was known as a "process" killer. A murderer from whom the process of killing someone was more gratifying than simply murdering them. He felt that he would have gone on killing and killing if he hadn't been caught. With the elderly woman he was targeting, he was writing messages on the mirrors in the house telling her to leave her money to him, and then telling her the messages had come from God. Grandiose narcissist that he was, Field left huge amounts of video and written evidence, including a video he'd taken of the elderly lady performing a sex act on him, which he was going to use to blackmail her. He also had recorded a video of him verbally abusing another elderly person in a care home he worked in. His written notes also betrayed his gross Narcissism.
There's always a "psycho-therapy" grift going on. Hard to pull people away from all of them. This one is really abusive and especially sad because it was toward children.
Dr. Grande, Thank you so much for doing this story. It is terrifying that something like this exists, and people should know about it! Thank you for sticking up for such vulnerable children who have no voice!!
I remember watching the movie that the Beth Thomas “documentary” was based off of. It’s been awhile but it was disturbing enough to make a lasting impression. I’m so glad that Beth is doing well now. Thanks for the information. It’s important that individuals who work with children be held to high standards and be fully informed before enacting techniques
I can honestly say at the young age of 5 or 6 I was that manipulative child. And I do not blame my parents at all because there was really nothing there. I had a normal childhood at that point. There is something to children being born with strong personality traits that are unexplainable. Maybe even disorders that just show them selves early.
Its like he forgets that nature & nurture influence behaviours. Ive met wonderful parents with 1 of several children having serious behavioural issues. Ive also met horrible parents with empathetic children.
How are you doing now?
You are right on.
But no one is born disordered though, except for people with psychopathy, which is genetic. Disorders come from some type of abuse or neglect. Strong personality traits are something some are born with, but not disorders.
@@dreamscape405 what kind of personality traits are you talking about, like being egocentric or vain, etc?
Where was Beth during the alleged "accidental" plane crash of the doctor? 🤔
We had to watch her documentary as part of my training when I was a CPS investigator it was shocking I had never heard of reactive attachment disorder at that time
This comment is old but how long ago is that? God I hope they're not still showing this documentary as an example.
@@neurofunkie 16 years ago
I was 16 when I saw that on HBO about Beth and it was the first time I actually thought a child should be put away from the rest of the world and I had oftentimes wondered if she had ever managed to kill her baby brother or her parents.
I felt so sorry for the baby boy because they told of what horrible shape he was in when they rescued him.
I’m going to say that it was a very one sided documentary because I thought that Beth was a lost cause destined to spread misery on everyone she would ever know.
I’m glad to hear she is better now and none of those things were true. She had been a victim also but they really limited that view and seriously upped the horrible side.
That documentary has always stuck with me. To hear a child say the most sinister and horrific things without any emotion lends credence to how much environment really shapes us as adults.
I remember this, glad to hear Beth has done good with her life, and doing well.
There are far more dangerous therapists on the loose than patients.
Dan Hughes has written a book called Building the Bonds of Attachment that has some great insights in this area
I remember seeing clips from this years ago on CZcams. Thank you for your followup in this instance. It's honestly priceless. I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone else talk about her success.
I'm so glad to see this documentary re-examined I totally remember how extreme it felt when I watched it.
Very informative and very thought provoking Dr Grande. This reminds me of my biological son. I am single mom, my son was planned, my roommate is his father. There was no romantic partnership but in his mind there was. He is very psychologically disturbed. That being said I HAD to give him visitation every other weekend. When my son 1st began 1st grade, he was 6 years old, he began demonstrating a very disturbing and unsettling anger/rage/temper that was reported to me 2 times. Once is something to be aware of twice is we are doing something about this NOW!!! With days my son had therapy after school 1 time a week, during school 1 time a week and we had family therapy with a young woman every other week which was Mostly geared toward him. This went on for at least 1 year or so until we moved. #1 that issue has never manifested again. #2 he has no anger issues either latent or overt #3 when he was 8 he asked to stop the visitation because he didn't want to see his father (I was so thrilled) #4 as it turns out his father was abusing him which is where the anger was coming from. Telling this story breaks my heart because my son was in harms way and there was nothing I could do about it. My son is 20 years old now, 6'8" and built like Adonnis. 😊 Every once in awhile he will talk about his therapist Brian and tell me how great that whole experience was and how he learned how to handle his rage. It truly is like music to my ears. I still have a deep seeded rage for his father for abusing my baby. I'm not sure that's ever going to end. I take solice in the fact that that man has been out of our lives since my son was 8 and we are very happy with that.
My point for telling you all this is that when YOUR child demonstrates odd behavior, get on it right away. If you don't see improvement, find a different doctor. Or send the child to 2 like I did. Whatever it takes. You've got to fix it.
I’m glad you did an analysis on this. I never knew the clinical side of this story (the backstory), and it’s interesting to hear more beyond what was in the documentary. I’m so glad that Beth is living her best life. She definitely did not deserve to be the unhappy and hurt little girl in the documentary. At least one great thing came out of it and that is Beth doing so well today.
Thank you for covering this Dr Grande. I never forgot this horrific story. Hearing your take on this was excellent. It can't have been easy. ❤ From Australia 🐨
As an adoptive mom for 25 years I’ve seen a lot of trends come and go. Beth Thomas was eventually adopted by Nancy Thomas, who raised her with the connection and understanding she needed to become the lovely adult she is today. The types of therapists/therapies Dr Grande is referring to were common in the early 2000’s. Nancy Thomas, Dr Karen Purvis and others brought a more connecting approach to raising children that experienced early childhood trauma. I experienced first hand many of the behaviors Dr Grande seems dismissive of here. It’s heartbreaking to love a child so much yet be constantly rejected by the child that seems to love every stranger that looks their way. Through the research of Dr Karyn Purvis at Texas Christian University on connecting with children from hard places we were able to learn strategies for connecting with our kids through understanding, playful interactions and loving but firm boundaries. Our kids are resilient and connected adults. There’s just so much that we’ve learned from since the early 2000’s it would be a shame not to share how much we’ve learned.
I'm also an adoptive mother, was wondering if this was nancy's daughter. that 's probably why she ended up doing so well in life! I have a couple kids with RAD and it isn't an easy road at all.
@@amymarie8999
Not easy but very much worth it if you can tough it out❤️
Oh Dr. Grande…as a provider who works with traumatized children and adolescents trying to build knowledge as well as wisdom within the”art” of psychiatry, your views align with my cautiousness toward therapeutic frameworks based in pop psychology and other poorly scrutinized methods that “up and coming” or “new to the scene”. If Dr.Phil or Oprah are promoting these methodologies, that’s my sign to run the other direction. So many in our fast food society do not understand that good science is not fast and easy and it need to withstand the test of time and repeated scrutiny over and over…and over again. Also similar to your field, professional medicine/nursing is also known to attract their fair share of individuals lacking self-awareness and the ability to question their own personal drives/needs. Again, keep up the good work!
Dr G I remember the child that was killed by the 'rebirthing' treatment. Absolutely horrific :(
Good afternoon Dr. Grande, excellent analysis. What a case Beth was. Glad to see she is a successful nurse.
As always I learn something new from your videos.
Have a great Friday.
kind of scary what folks are doing out there. I work w/attachment and kiddos as a therapist. My protocol is simple..to build trust w/the parent by the parent actually spending one on one time with the child. Speak positively (positive therapy), treat the action not the behavior...if that makes sense. A lot of one on one time, not dictated by the parent, but collaboratively deciding what they would like to do together. I also have adopted children, the sooner the better. yes, it can be more complicated, but this is the gest...none of the other stuff that would only traumatize the child. geeze.
Something about this video was incredible thank you so much for the insight.
Hello dr. Grade🥰 I'm super excited about this one! I'm always really excited when you upload. But with this case in particular has always been one that is extremely Riveting! Thank you as always & much love❣️
Brilliant and compassionate video for children with Reactive Attachment Disorder, thank you. I've also been fascinated and horrified by the Dissociative Identity Disorder trend online, I'd appreciate more videos on this.
I really appreciate your analysis on this case. Touched on a lot of points in a clear and concise way that aren’t readily talked about on a consistent basis to form these very accurate (if I must say so myself at least) conclusions on attachment and the too often overlooked narcissistic manipulation of therapists (& Parents!!). Hopefully more people who suffer with these issues (including myself) can start to gain recognition and lose the blame that those ignorant and self absorbed so easily place upon them.. muchas gracias Grande❤
Another great video. Your assessments and opinions about reactive detachment disorder and the therapist that propone them were compelling.
This is brilliantly conveyed! I really enjoyed this and think the discussion on this has been needed for a very long time thanks.
I don’t know anything about the case you discussed in this video , Dr Grande. I do know about a child my Aunt & Uncle adopted. They adopted 2 sisters when the girls were 1 and 3 years old. The older girl began to display mental and emotional problems right away. My Aunt thought she could love her and give her time. It only got worse and worse. The entire time she was growing up my Aunt & Uncle took her for mental health help. They tried talking to a therapist and then as she began to become more violent she tried medication. Nothing ever helped. Finally when the girl was 15 she tried to kill my Aunt. Then she went for inpatient therapy and supervision. She was released after she turned 18. I’m not sure what her exact diagnosis were but it was a sad and horrifying situation for everyone involved.
Thank you for the update on Beth's life. I always wondered what happened to her. So glad she was able to turn things around for herself and live successfully. It is great news!
Wow! I remember the story of this child and am so delighted that she survived and is thriving.❤ and I SO very much appreciate your analysis of the pseudo science quacks that you have exposed. I am an Elder. Much has changed in my lifetime. It is heartwarming and validating to have your explanations that mostly children are “messed up” due to what they have experienced……. Very sad and very true. Thank you again ✌️❤
I'm so glad you mentioned fake therapists because I've see at least three in my past. I couldn't articulate why I felt that way but now I know my instincts were right. They were self serving. I met a forensic therapist who understood what I couldn't and she was so kind that I was able to question her without feeling ridiculous. Thank you Dr. Grande for pointing all this out.
This case study was so personal due to being a child welfare worker. My investigations, home studies, placing children in foster care, terminating and consummation adoptions. As well as reaching out to the community for special services the families and children needed. I remember watching Walter Cronkite and when he spoke of Nam he brought it right into your living room. You speak the same way. AWESOME.
I remember seeing this very scary video years ago. Great to hear that this girl grew into a healthy, accomplished woman.
There are far more dangerous therapists on the loose than patients.
I really really enjoyed this video. I started to watch you back in the days when you were mostly talking about psychology and different diagnoses and as much as I enjoy your new stuff I like the psych topic much more, so this video was a treat. Thank you Dr Grande ❤❤
I don't really have anything to add to this conversation except to say this is one of the best comment sections I've seen in recent memory, and that I really appreciate people's thoughtfulness and insight in helping me understand this subject👍❤️
Love your channel and your dry wit. It's always a joy to see you. I watched the documentary on Beth, neutrally, and somehow came to a different conclusion about the methodology of the therapy. The takeaway for me was that children with RAD cannot attach because they cannot trust--and for good reason, so I understand. It seemed to me that developing trust was the entire thrust of the therapy. To do this, the therapists had to wipe the slate clean, so to speak, and start at ground zero. They took away all conveniences, comforts, aesthetics, privileges, and personal autonomy. It was bleak, to be sure. When over time Beth's needs were consistently met on request, Beth was able to learn, finally, how to trust, and that she could indeed trust. From there, attachment, affection, and even love could follow, and it did follow. The Beth we saw a year later was completely transformed, seemed open and even happy, seemed human finally, hopeful towards the future, and looking forward to returning to the family.
Fascinating subject, I say a video about this young lady and it seemed strange. The story was incomplete. Thank you for All the great information Dr. Grande!
I really like this one Dr. Grande! Thanks so much.
got halfway through a pod episode about beth thomas before i had to stop because of how heinous her treatment was as a baby. thank you for covering all of these cases with the class, professionalism and knowledge that you possess. please never stop making videos. you’re one of my go-to sources for true crime content and updates.
also, shot in the dark, but would you ever do collaborations with other professionals and creators in any of the related fields you’re in? i’d love to see you and candice delong of the killer psyche podcast work on something together ❤
Wow those therapist conducting treatment sounds very cruel and torture
This was a masterclass on reactive attachment disorder. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us, Dr. Grande.❤
Loved your final thoughts on this (I'm a trauma therapist and I've only recently found your channel but I love it).
I liked this video before I even watched it because I knew it was gonna be good. I love your channel, Dr Grande
Thanks for the clear, uncompromising and highly illuminating analysis of certain psychotherapists. Very helpful clarification!
There are far more dangerous therapists on the loose than patients.