Speaker Placement Basics For Small Concerts, DJ's, and Portable Churches
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
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00:00 - Intro
01:25 - What makes clear, consistent sound at your event?, 4 Main Variables
05:30 - My ethos and mantra for sound system design decisions
06:20 - Show Scope, Speaker Selection
09:50 - Speaker Placement Principles
11:21 - Using Forward Aspect Ratio (FAR) To Match Mains Speakers To Audience Size
13:48 - What If I Can’t Place Speakers Optimally?
14:38 - Vertical Speaker Placement, What Speaker Stands To Buy
16:30 - Adding A Front Fill Speaker
17:30 - Subwoofer Placement For DJ, Portable Church, And Small Concert Sound
18:04 - Why I Prefer Center Sub Arrays
19:16 - Managing Levels And Keeping Tonality Even
21:27 - Recap, Big Wins - Hudba
That subwoofer power alley/valley visual was a game-changer.
So glad to hear that! I've got a video coming out within the next 6 weeks that will dive more in depth there.
For everyone else: THIS DUDE, Cameron
Magee, is who showed me the flashlight analogy for the first time so long ago. Huge props to Cam, who has taught me so much in my audio journey.
Yes, most enlightening. I've always set up two groups of 4 18s, each side of the stage. Double 18s on top of them and then the mids and tops. That way, you dont need to put your mids and tops on a stand. I shall have to try the subs in the centre, but.12 of them?
@@kevinfreestone9822curious how this went with that many subs if you've tried it yet? I've also heard by coupling them in the center you actually gain some extra db's as well. I'm getting a second 18" next week so I'll have to play around with it. I could probably benefit from that a little more than you haha
I hope speaker manufacturers STOP putting pole sockets on the top of there subs and therefore encouraging users with limited acoustics knowledge to use the crappy L/R placement of subs.
As a systems engineer I appreciate giving some of thse basic ideas to people. Not everyone can afford to have a dedicated person to figuring out speaker set up. Almost everything is a compromise but a basic understanding of speakers and how they perform is important. I always teach people starting out the main goal is keep the sound on the people and off the walls so your maximizing the clarity and not wasting the power. subs is one of thoose things most people strugle with because it isn't always intuitive and the way low frequencies can either cancel or reinforce depending on placement. I've see damage to many systems becasue of that. Equadistant from the audience can be another goal, although just like he said the people that like it a little quiter gravitate to the off axis areas.
I'm passionate about good sound for all situations and apreciate the effort to train people through your videos.
it helped me to understand why one year at gigantour i couldnt hear any bass, and i complained the sound was shit, but all my mates said it was great lol, 15 years later i learn why and understand that it was probably just my seat position and got unlucky lol, the sound system was probably super hard to set up for good sound inside festival hall in melbourne australia (i think they stopped using it for live music now unfortunatly, some of my best memories in that place)
I’m watching all of your videos and am so impressed and grateful for them. The more you give, the more you get. I hope you reap tenfold all the work, knowledge and energy you put into these videos.
Thank you so much! I'm glad they've been helpful for you in your audio journey. I've learned so much in making them by really clarifying what I think. Teaching is the best way to make sure you know somehting!
Beautiful. My band at 9 V Saturday just had a gig last night and it was in a pretty tiny bar and I am 34 years old. I have been around live music and playing live music since I was 1213 years old you just taught me the most important thing that I could have ever learned about live sound. I play bass Bass and I believe that I am going to be a headache for the rest of my band members and start implementing these values to our set up when we gig out
So glad that this is helpful for you! I'm a bass player, too : ). Keep the bottom.
Separating the subs to evenly distribute the sound and avoid power alleys has really been an eye opener for me. Thank you!
You're very welcome!
YO! This has been super helpful! New years eve, I did my first gig with much taller tripods for the mains, and an inline gradient for the subs. It was FANTASTIC to not be bombarded with bass all night and having excellent response for the people in a big wide-open gymnasium!
So glad to hear that, Mark!
Finally, someone who explains it clearly rather than those who like to wow us with the tech language! Thanks. The aha moment were the kids in the background and you not stopping to edit. Blessings! Thanks.
Glad my approach was helpful to you! And yes, sometimes you just gotta keep the tape rolling even if your four year old has your two year old in a headlock : ). Thank you for the kind words.
The aha moment for me...the flashlight analogy. I've always thought the tweeter should be at ear level, but this makes sense. I was concerned about going too high with our mains because the ceiling in the room we meet in has large 4 foot indented chandelier sections in the ceiling that I thought would really cause some problems. I am going to measure our room this weekend and do some FAR calculations! Our stage is really close to our audience with our portable church, so coverage has been difficult. I ended up adding two side fills in addition to our mains... but I am now wondering if I can drop those and move the mains inward. Keep up the good work Michael!
It was a dear friend of mine and audio mentor who showed me the flashlight analogy a LONG time ago and it was a literal lightbulb moment, so I'm glad it's translating and helping you as well!
Having a super close stage always puts speaker placement in a tough spot. I wouldn't be afraid to put the speakers just a hair upstage if they've got pretty good pattern control in the top end.
As far as tweeters at ear height goes, that’s a great guideline for a pair of studio monitors in a studio setup, but doesn’t apply to live.
Let me know how your changes go!
Thanks for this, it goes directly against what most people would think. Having now tested the stick setup, and I can tell very clearly the comb filtering effect. Will try the sub in the center, and also the 1.27 meter spacing with delay and inverted later.
Give it a shot and let me know how it goes!
The visuals of the sound wave was very helpful. Also the use of the center fill sub with a monitor.
Michael - What an excellent video you've put together! I love how you've come up with a nice "mix" between the science and the realities of most projects for smaller events. I also enjoyed seeing you use the software tools. I can envision what that "next level" approach looks like when you have the tools and a paying gig. I do some teaching myself and I am definitely going to refer my students to your resources. Thanks!
Thank you for the kind words! Yes, my hope is to make this seemingly black box of voodoo a bit more approachable to your everyday engineer.
Very good video! The front fill changed everything. I didn't know how to properly distribute the sound to the front of the stage.
LOTS of excellent information in this, but my AHA moment was the center sub placement, specifically the "power alley" bit re side-placed subs. Cracking video!
Thank you so much! Glad it was helpful to you.
Thank you for sharing, always learning something new, very helpful tips
You’re very welcome!
So Im researching speakers now, I need a new setup and been looking at sub/top combos all day, and then I come across your vid,,, learned how I have those silent alleys with that setup, even tho I love how it looks, lol ,,,and now looking for a banging center sub, thanks for the knowledge!!! 🙌
Great job teaching about coverage. Thank you.
You got it!
great presentation, very technical.
Been through a lot of your videos the last 2 1/2 hrs. Good schooling my friend. Love my K12’s…all 7 of them that serve as mains and wedges. Now moving on to RCF hdl 6a for mains. 2 per side…..for now lol. FYI family background noise comes thru on AirPods 😂 All good cuz getting this info is priceless. Thank you!
This is great information. I have the Bose f1 system and it has an adjustable array and I have a couple Bose s1pros that I pair up with the Bose Sub1s and 2s depending on the situation. I done a school tailgate party with S1pros and Sub1s and they couldn't believe it produced enough for that parking lot. The dispersion on those S1 Pros and when you have the crossover through the sub it is amazing at what those little things can do
I'll have to check those out!
Awesome video Michael …thank you for the tips
You're very welcome!
I knew that higher speakers could more evenly cover a wider area but the flashlight thing is really easy to visualize. I'm definitely going to use that next time somebody asks me about speaker height.
I'm glad that analogy helped! It makes me want to throw all super short speaker stands in a wood chipper : )
Love the prayer ref! 🎉
thank you so much for teaching a clear sounds setup 😍😍😍😍😍😁😀
Super great video, thanks for sharing!
Definitely utilising the angle mount & high stands from now on- have been stupidly keeping my tops at table height and redlining to fill the room 🤦♂️🤣 many thanks for these general principles to follow you’ve saved many front row eardrums lol
You're very welcome!
Thank you for this video. Just pieced together a PA setup for our youth retreat and wanted to know the best configuration based on room and amount of people!
Glad it's helpful to you!
I liked when you said to aim the tweeters at the back row
This is some really good stuff! Thanks for sharing.
You're very welcome! Glad it was helpful.
Thank you for this data. Our Messianic synagogue just purchased two Alto TS410 speakers and a used 32 channel Mackie, and everything you said confirmed my thoughts for speaker location and angle. We are installing it all this Sunday, and I'm very optimistic and eager to hear how much better things are going to sound in comparison to what we've been using.
You’re very welcome! Let me know how it goes.
thanks for explaining the coverage angle
You got it.
Late to the game, but wanted to thank you for an excellent video! Really helpful - the diagram with dual subs was really eye-opening for me. One thing I’d love to see in a follow-up video is the question of reflections and trying to manage them. It seems like in the model where you have both speakers pointed directly at the back wall you’d get a lot of reflection canceling vs. an angled setup, but that’s based on a naive mental model of the space. :) Would love to hear some tips and tricks for handling those both when you can move the speakers and when you can’t. Thanks again for such a terrific resource!
This is great! Thank you so much!
You're very welcome!
Great vid, good info!
that was the science of sound...nice info!
Thank you so much!
Great video. Helped me out.
You're very welcome!
Good stuff ! Love your videos
Thank you so much!
I loved the sound of QSC and used them for years. Beware of the newer models. I had issues with latest firmware randomly shutting off. Well documented online and on Sweetwater user reviews. I had to switch to EV which is working great.
Thanks so well explained 😊 God bless 🙏🕊️💕🔥
Thanks!
Always helpful to get a handle on the theory, but also to remember _why_ you're doing things that way, and when to break the rules.
I was at an event a couple weekends ago where somebody had the subs right in the middle .... but, because of a runway, they were about 30 feet in front of the mains, right up in the audience area. It was OK if you were off to a side, but nothing but bass if you were in the middle. In that case, I think I would've just accepted the peaks and nulls, and had them set up next to the mains. It was in a sports arena anyway, so there was PLENTY of reflection to sand down the edges a bit. ;-)
Even better, though, they were apparently using a 3-way crossover, with the LF going to the subs, the MF going to the left speaker, and the HF going to the right. 😜 siiigh... I guess we all have those days. :-)
Awesome vid!
Thank you!
I would just add that for me, I want to concentrate the highest sound pressure levels on the dance floor itself and minimize that sound throughout the rest of the room. Without a center speaker for fill, I would angle the side speakers to point toward the center point of the dance floor, keeping the subs in an array at center stage.
Hi Curtis. Could you make a video about what could be problematic when speakers are too close to the side walls in a narrow concert hall. Especially wide angle line array speakers. Because people usually wish to use whole area between left and right walls to construct the stage if the room is narrow. To avoid masking the stage, their best option is usually placing speakers up and as close to side walls as possible.
Thank you 🙏
You're welcome!
Thanks a whole lot this is what I being looking for the FHR have answer my prayers
Happy to help : )
Will this work with column turbo sound ip3000 ev50 speakers that are ground based
@@gemk007 Yup! I looked at their specs and they go "up to" 120° horizontal coverage. So, they're a pretty wide speaker, but will definitely do the job.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio let’s say I’m setting up more than two of them in a live band setting I do live sound how. Far apart should they be to stop cone filtering a total of 4 , 2per side
Thank you🙏🙏
You got it.
The power Alley is something interesting. Although I've always intuitively kind of angle the speakers and I don't know why and now I have a reason why.
Great info Michael and thank you! I have 4 of the JBL PRX 818 and 815s and I recently added the SRX Dual 18 sub for the center. I wish I could figure out a good config for when I use all of this outside any suggestions would be appreciated.
Hey, Kevin! I'm not sure if you've seen the video that published today, but it covers 7 different setups and their underlying fundamentals. Watch that and let me know if you have any further questions.
czcams.com/video/Q4ny703u-ks/video.html
Very helpful
You're very welcome!
If I'm not mistaken, I think you get some coupling from putting the subs together as well. Could be wrong though, great video! I was always hesitant to point the mains toward the center at all, now I can be much more confident in my aiming
Yes, putting the subs together gets you maximum coupling and is the most efficient use of your low end. Glad you found the video helpful!
Hills and valley effect. Didnt know about that thanks
You're welcome!
Hey new viewer here, love the content so far. Really appreciate the simple explanations and visuals. We're currently looking into a church remodel and I've been asked to think about speakers bring the "sound guy". I have a decent base of knowledge from home theater background but this is different for sure. Currently running 2 old flyers which will be getting retired. Awful dispersion and frequency response. We have two QSC K10s plus matching 1kw sub. I was thinking about adding two more k10.2s. But I'm not sure how to lay out 4 speakers. Room is rectangle so I was thinking each corner but I know our ears appreciate sound from the front vs coming from behind. How would you tackle a 4 speaker layout in the same scenario as the video above? Lots of height to fly in the front of house, in the back it tapers to 12ft.
Thanks so much for all of your videos! I'm an engineer by day and DJ by night, so I definitely appreciate the "nerd" approach to this. Im doing pool parties every weekend this summer and have to cover a big area (pool, lounge area, volleyball - 50'x150' ~in total ) and I only have 4 speakers and an 18" sub (2 CP8s and 2 CP12s). I'm going to space them out to attempt to get the best coverage I can with the gear I have..but I'd like to time align the tops. Is there a mixer or some sort of device you'd recommend I can use to accomplish this (the CP series doesn't have ability to set delays...).
Great stuff. Would have liked to see some mention of comb filtering via overlapping speakers - or is that never really a concern? Oh, also, when you're doing subdivide and conquer, are you running in mono?
Thank you so much!
In this type of setup comb filtering is inevitable since I'm unable to steer lows and low mids with such a small box. It's not until I am able to increase line length with a line array that I am able to "steer" low mids. So, yes, there is comb filtering in the low mids, but I would rather have even high frequency coverage by positioning my mains to subdivide and conquer.
Yes, I run the rig in mono if there's no overlap between the mains.
Thanks for the video and great explanation. I would be interested in learning about the Mapp3d software and how to use it correctly.
You're very welcome! Yes, I'll be working on a MAPP 3D video.
Thank you. Can you do a video with bluetooth speakers and theit placement.
Great example and illustrations!
Q- I am buying 2-10” (400 watts) powered speakers for a room that’s 60x80, rectangular.
Buddhist monk will only do lecture and chant front of stage that’s 2’ high. Members are about 6’ away from front.
As alternative to front placements-- can I place speakers on side walls-7’ mounted?
Great video, and it's reassuring that my methods aren't completely mad. I use the 2.4M Gravity stands (I have the sub poles too) and on top I place a tilt adaptor so I can toe my speakers down a little if I need to. With a pair of ELX-200-12 passive tops and a pair of the ELX-200-18S subs, I'm getting great results by getting the tops up high and putting small angles on them. They're great speakers for the price too; planning to get another system this summer...if the supply doesn't run out. :D
Getting your speakers high makes all the difference! Glad you're getting good results.
what kind of adapters did you use? and was it a 5 degree or a 15 degree?
@@ayoanil Gravity make adjustable tilt adaptors. I vary the tilt and toe depending on the height/coverage needed. If I can find it, I'll get you the gravity part number...
Subscribed! Learnt so much thanks
You're very welcome!
thank you so much, this is really informative. Regarding that front fill speaker, I wonder if there will be comb filtering ?
You got it! Yes, there will inevitably be SOME comb filtering, but by intentionally placing and aiming the front fill to only cover where the mains are not, then time aligning the front fill to where it and the mains are equal and level, you'll only be hearing comb filtering at the seams of those zones.
Hi Michael, Thank you for sharing all your knowledge in these videos. All of them are really very helpful for us to learn about audio tuning. One more help, i could not download the audio math spreadsheet. Can you help with that..Thanks!!
You're very welcome! Try this link - docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0-8tm-QoZ9mOeXTH_JI1gcmox7zuwUsZN6_8v2N8ko/edit#gid=0
Very interesting! Obvious question though is *why* does the side sub placement give the alleys/valleys??
Fantastic vid and very relatable. All of this makes sense and I'm relieved that the graphics are basically revealing the picture I've been making in my head all these years. Similar to the first time I used a parametric EQ on an iPad vs just twisting the knobs all those years previous! Apparently my instincts were solid, phew!
Now, you mentioned a wedding reception more than once and a DJ scenario. How about the fact that for half the night, the dancefloor is EMPTY and many rooms are much wider than deep. Half the audience is seated at tables on either side. All of your demonstrations illustrate perfectly how to arrange things for when the dancefloor is full, which is certainly the point of the party, eventually. Is it as simple as rotating the top speakers outward for speeches and low volume background music listening for the first half of the event and then back toward center for the dancefloor? In my experience, this can work well enough as well as provide some much needed reprieve for the folks that prefer to socialize away from the fray of the dance party. I'm just curious if you're software and data points can confer this better.
Great channel, I've subscribed, and I appreciate your down to basics approach with the support of visual data.
Thanks for the question, Jared! To answer your question in the simplest way, point your speakers where the people are : ). If for the first part of your gig folks are spread out, do your best to choose speakers, place and aim them to cover that setup. If the gig changes and now your "primary audience" is the dance floor, then point your speakers towards them.
I think I'd love to be able to put subs in the middle, based on your viewable setups, but I get a lot of friction from various factions. Without some version of a cardioid setup, the singers are annoyed by that much bass backfire. Short distance to the edge of the dancefloor severely limits cardiod options to begin with. Besides that, the planners, tend to prefer the clean look of a center stage area and expect all speakers to be on the sides. Occasionally I tilt the subs inward some, but never really sure if that actually makes much difference. Would your software make this subtle change visible? I try to Xover below 100, so the subs are surely just that, subs.
@@jaredstreeter5911 Tilting in the subs will make little difference. But I wouldn't wory too much about the LR setup indoors, the wall reflections will help fill in the gaps.
Yes, your ‘center/target’ is different for dinner/speeches than it is for dancing.
Hi Michael, what a fantastic video, thank you! What sort of speaker would you recommend for front fill in a scenario like the example in this vid? Would you typically just use another K12 (or similar)? Also, as well as height, what sort of vertical angle should you be aiming for? Thank you again!
Thanks, Cameron! Another K12 or similar speaker would work great.
And as far as vertical aiming, I usually end up aiming my point source speakers at the back row.
Great Vid, awesome info! Can you make a similar video, this time how/where to set up your Speakers and Subs when you're at an event/venue where you're not perfectly centered? This is the "ideal" scenario, the DJ booth/stage right in the middle of the dance floor. Many times this is not the case, as you have to be in a corner due to sharing the space with another vendor and/or band. Or the venue simply decided to place the stage in the corner when they could have easily placed it in the middle of the dance floor.
Great thought! Here's the quick answer: Prioritize where your speakers are based off your relative position to the audience. Even if YOU are in a corner, you still need to have your speakers cover where the AUDIENCE. Still shoot your mains speakers through the middle of the middle and try to place them as close to the middle of those zones. Same with your subs (if LR). If center, try to move them so they're centered up on the audience. Hope that helps!
@@MichaelCurtisAudio I appreciate your feedback/reply!
@@djmigueladrian You're welcome!
I use a pair of high power column arrays with a large sub in the center most of the time (I have 7 subs, 10 speakers available to shape the sound)
Very helpful. Am a Dj and event organizer......Setting up a quality sound for my event is always my optimum goal
You're very welcome! Let me know if this helps out at your next gig.
Great tutorial info indeed that has enlightened some of the grey areas.
Just a question here...How would I have to go with FOH speakers that are atop sticks that use subs as floor-based stands? Would I have to separate the subs and speakers and rearrange their individual placements?
Thank you! If I'm understanding you correctly, yes you would have to separate them.
I would really appreciate your thoughts on one of the column arrays like the EV30M (120 degrees of horizontal) or the Bose L1 Pro 8 (180 degrees horizontal) vs a 2 speaker system like the Yamaha 400BT vs the Everse 8 that is 100 x 100 degrees dispersion. I'm a singer/songwriter and do solo acoustic performances.
Great videos! Learning so much, thank you. I have 4 yamaha powered subs that crossover at 100hz. Should I butt them all up together in the center or maybe space them apart a bit? If so, how to decide on the distance. And would I lose the coupling effect?
Great question. Take a look at this video of mine and let me know if you have any followup questions - czcams.com/video/Q4ny703u-ks/video.html
Great infos here! Do you have a quick tip for a non-centered stage in an asymmetrical room? I suppose it gets really complicated there, but maybe there are some quick and dirty rules-of-thumb one can navigate along
The same principles still apply, but yes an awkwardly placed stage definitely throws a kink in things. At the end of day, when working with point sources, you're prioritizing having the most amount of folks getting HF coverage. So, no matter where you put your speakers, make sure that's happening.
What do you recomend for small outdoor Techno/Rave partys, for around 3-500 peoples ?
To be honest i looking for 2 tops and 2 subs. Right now i looking at Mackie DRM active 15" speakers and Mackie DRM active 18" subs.
Finally...someone who knows what they're talking about. Combine the middle sub concept with a QU PAC et. sim, and 100% of DJ's would be able to have optimized sound. Most do neither...spread their subs out and don't use an external mixer
Thanks for the kind words!
What are the general recommendations for low ceiling applications? My church ceiling is 9ft high.
Hey, thanks for all the knowledge you share, could you advise for someone that only has one sub and can't really place it on the centre? Thank you.
You're welcome!
I'd try and place it to where it would be as "even" coverage for the most amount of people. Totally get that there's limitations.
You are the man!! I’ve been looking for this type of info to setup my churchs system properly!! I am studio head so coming from that why wouldn’t you setup the mix position in the center of the room? Thanks so much!
Welcome to the live music world : ). I, too, started in studio world.
The reason why I wouldn't mix in the center is that a very, very small portion of your audience as actually in the "sweet spot". The minute you take a few steps left or right the precedence effect draws your ear's "attention" to the speaker that's louder and closer. Mixing on-axis (directly in the center of one of your speaker's coverage) gives you the clearest idea of what's happening in the middle of your zones, then you can assume HF will taper off from there.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Mann oh man!! That makes so much sense!! Love it man!! I will definitely watch all the videos in your channel!! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!! 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
@@RaymanuelMuzik You're so very welcome!
This video goes more in depth on the "stereo" debate - czcams.com/video/DHlbu9qupOo/video.html
@@MichaelCurtisAudio will check it out!! 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
@@MichaelCurtisAudio this is the first time I've learned something from a CZcams comment that totally changed how I mix shows. Michael you're incredible
Should the mains be parallel to the woofer or can they be further forward or back behind the mains? Thanks in advance
I would love to know if a phase change in the two sub set up (So sup's left and right insted of center) could potenzialy illimenate the "quiet" spots in the audience ?
The sub's I use can phase shift 0° or 180°. Would that work that I set one too 0° and the other one too 180° ?
Hi Michael! Thanks for an informative video. At the church we have a sitting audience. To save space I plan on making use of the ceiling to suspend the speakers. We have a tall ceiling (above 12 feet). What is a good height for the speaker in this scenario, and with the tilt where do I aim it? Should I aim it to the half part of the hall or to the back row?
Hey, Azareal. It depends on how deep your room is, but most of the time you'll end up pointing your speaker at the back row. The trim heigh will depend on how wide of a vertical coverage you have on your speaker. You want to make sure that in pointing your speaker at the back row the first row can still get plenty of the high frequencies.
This is a great video. I wish someone like you would do a video about how to get the most out of the simple portable PAs that are incredibly common out here in fly-over country. I suppose there's no way to get the great sound that you can get from a real system, but I'm sure most of us amateurs could do a better job and give our audiences a better experience if we had a little guidance from a good technician. In my experience in bars and small venues I see, (and hear), a lot more portable units with around 1000 watts 4 to 10 channels and basic controls than I do big boards with sophisticated equalizers, sub-woofers, and monitors.
I'm glad this was helpful to you, Joshua. Just to be clear, are you talking about getting good results in a bar/club setting with a simple 8ch analog mixer and a couple of speakers on sticks?
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Yeah.... That's pretty much what I'm talking about.
In my experience as a very amateur musician, that sort of system is extremely common and they're usually set up by the performer. It's also extremely common for the sound to be pretty terrible. I rather expect you to tell me that there isn't much that can be done to make such a system perform well, but I'm hoping I'm wrong and there might be techniques/skills that can be used to at least make such a system sound less bad. If anyone is addressing this on the internet I haven't found it.
I wonder about things like running instruments through the board? (again, in my experience, a lot of musicians set up and only use the PA for vocals). Is it a good idea to use some kind of sub with a crossover in small setting? Even if you don't need more volume, particularly bass? If all you have to work with are the simple EQ controls that are usually on a portable PA how do you get the best sound? Using monitors when you can't create a separate monitor mix? I'm sure there are many other aspects that I know nothing about. But, if someone - you perhaps - knows how to get the most out of a simple set up, it would be a great benefit to us who are trying to make good music in small venues and even more of a benefit to our audiences. There's a lot of us out here.
@@joshuacunningham1015 Very helpful. Will definitely keep this all in mind for future videos!
can I buy one 15" and on 12" plus a sub so I can get better coverage with the 12 and better mid range and take the advantage of the power and reach
of the 15" for a room of about 40 square meters?
These videos are making me want to learn more and do more! I do however have a question, what about center clusters? I have a local church that is struggling to get a good mix through a center cluster that was permanently installed several years ago. They are willing to replace the speakers or just whatever it takes to get a good sound. Should i offer leaving a center cluster or sell them on moving to a LR setup? I will be going soon to measure the room and see what’s actually going on!
Hey, Ben. I've spec'd center clusters on several projects if they get the coverage of the space most uniform. A great mix will still translate on a center mono setup. If LR can help cover the audience better in a specific use case, then great.
Michael do you have a video on setting up delay fills for outdoor venues? I've been prepping for some shows this summer and am all set with my matrices configured (not unlike a cry room send). I'm concerned about placement though so having a video or comment or some resources on that would help greatly!
I don't currently have one out in the wild, but I've got an outline made for a future video. I'll see if I can bump it on my content timeline and get it out there!
@@MichaelCurtisAudio thanks so much Michael! I really appreciate it :) have a great day, I can't wait to see that when it comes out!
What's about the stereo or mono setup? For Indoor setup when you place 2 speakers on the side of the dj boot what's the best setting? I mean mono (L+R) on both speakers or it sound better setting Left to a speaker and Right signal to the other speaker?
If you set stereo who is on a side of the room will ear one channel more than the other
I agree with the below commenter that, while SPL coverage diagrams alone are certainly helpful for predicting success at outdoor events, your analysis, as far as I can tell, completely ignores the affect of room reverberation, which is one of the most important factors preventing “clean and clear” sound at an indoor event. In order to get the clearest sound, you want the ratio of direct ( sound coming directly from the PA speaker) to reverberant (sound reflecting from room boundary surfaces one or mor times) sound to be as high as possible. In order to achieve this, it is important to steer the speakers such that their radiation pattern misses the walls (and to a lesser degree floor and ceiling). In order to maximize direct to reverberant sound ratio, it’s best to cover as much of the audience as possible with direct sound from BOTH speakers (i.e. overlap the coverage patterns such that the each cover as much of the audience as possible while missing the walls).
Another factor not being taken into consideration is the desire for the sound to appear to be coming from the same location as the performer (your brain determines direction by comparing first arrival time of direct sound at left and right ear). If you move the speakers too far from the stage and you split the coverage of the audience between speakers, the listeners attention will be drawn to the position of the speaker on his/her side of the stage, not the performer. This is another reason for wanting as much of the audience as possible to be receiving direct sound from speakers on both sides of the stage.
Great points here, Jeremy. I agree with you that direct to reverberant ratio is very important and keeping as much energy from the speakers steered towards the audience vs the walls very much helps in that regard.
However, IMHO, steering the speakers inwards will possibly help keep less upper HF energy off the side walls, but most arrays or point sources, especially, in the horizontal plane, have a wide enough pattern in the TMid frequencies and below that any rotation won't make much as difference as you'd think in overall clarity. Having generous overlap between two speaker zones with correlated content simply guarantees comb filtering rather than possibly inheriting it from a later reflection. High frequencies are also the easiest and simplest to treat with more affordable absorption materials, so optimizing the speaker system for coverage and tonal uniformity is priority one, then use sound damping to take care of what's left.
Like you mentioned, SPL isn't everything. Just because I can get +-3dB front to back with a 16 box line array hang in an arena doesn't mean the rear seats won't have a different perception than the front. Much more reverb in the back. Some impulse responses of the space as well as looking at measurement coherence will help signal if additional acoustic measures are needed.
I also think my own bias is that in the vast majority of the live events I do I have zero control over the acoustics and can't get any IRs ahead of time, so optimizing the PA for tonal and level uniformity is all that I can do.
As far as imaging goes, that's a tradeoff to consider on a per-gig-basis. You're right, I should have talked about that more in the video.
Thanks again for the great points and conversation.
Great video and thanks for sharing info
Question for u: what if bride and groom are on that center stage u mentioned and u have been given a stage in one corner on right
How to cover all areas and set up speakers? Pl advise
Same concepts apply - subdivide the room into as many zones as speakers you have, then point your speakers down the middle of the middle of those zones.
Hey there! I have a couple of questions on portable column arrays.
1. I want to run in stereo. How do you typically run stereo with portable line arrays.
2. I need to be able to control the bottom end from a mixer. How is this done?
I'm assuming you would have just one sub in a stereo setup?
I don't want to have to control the sub from the actual back of the sub. I want to do it
from the mixer feeding the arrays. Possible?
Cheers!
Hi Michael! Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I'm just wonder what your thoughts are on the K.2 series vs the original K series. I've heard people say that the K.2 series are unreliable, unlike the original K series.
I've personally never had a K12 or a K12.2 go out on me. But I've heard the same rumors you have.
I have a question regarding subwoofers. The little church that I work with had installed a subwoofer on the back end of the stage and it's not a very big stage but it's where the base amp and drum kit reside. I thought 'why do we have a subwoofer right next to the base amp?' So I moved the sub to a tiny room off the side of the stage. I wanted to get it far enough away. Generally speaking do you think this was a good choice on my part? Thanks!
what about my setup, a guitar amp and a single PA thing with subwoofer and speaker?
What do you think using a placement for small venues where your audience is wider than deeper and you have only 2 speakers? I did a "crossed eye" type and saved the centered audience and somehow it got a decent signal to the sides. By decent I mean IT WAS able to keep audience attention/presence. That was wild! THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEOS!!!
Hey, Cesar. I would probably cheat my speakers in a little bit closer to the stage and angle them out towards the sides. Super wide rooms are pretty tough!
@@MichaelCurtisAudio That's right. That way I avoid comb filtering. It was DJ setup
One question. If the speakers in the hall are aimed exactly at the back wall, and not in the center of the hall, then where should the sound engineer be located?
And the second question. If the sound engineer is in the middle of the room near the back wall, where should the speakers be directed?
We have two speakers and two subwoofers. And the third question. how to install subwoofers? Should I put them together next to each other or move them apart?
Thank you. Greetings from Lithuania!
Any thoughts on how I can make my centered cardioid subwoofers visually appealing for weddings? I SO want to setup this way, but split subs is logistically so convenient, LOL! I've got two KS118's and two K10.2's. The casters are a problem when they're aimed in opposite directions because they stick out pretty far. I've thought about a piece of plywood to go on top that goes just past the casters on both sides and then covering that with a cloth, then the cloth will drape evenly. There's got to be some really creative, clever, and beautiful solution. Maybe I could invite bridesmaids to dance on top of them, right in front of my booth? Would a TV be rattled to pieces if it were on top of the subs?
I think you're on to something with the TV and table idea. You could get some acoustic isolation pads that are used for studio speakers and place the TV stand on top of those?
I have an event coming up and I have 2 iQ15 ans 2 IQ12 (turbosound speaker brand). My event has similar width and depth as portrayed in this video also has smilar stage placement. How would you place these speakers if you were in my shoes?
great video. what would be a great sub to pair with the QSC K12?
Either a KW181 or a KS118.
Thank you for the amazing insight!
On a side note, is there any kind of formula or distance ratio in order to predict the occurrence of null spots when LR subs is the only option you've got, so that we don't accidentally land-up in that spot while mixing?
You're very welcome!
Short answer is yes, but you would have to calculate it for every frequency in the sub range : ) You'll have a different amount of power alleys and valleys at 31Hz vs 63Hz vs 125Hz, for example. What you CAN count on for every LR sub setup is that there will be a power alley right in the middle AT ALL SUB FREQUENCIES. So, I'd stand in the very middle to start, get a feel for what "a little too much bass" feels like, then walk around.
You're going to notice the dips and peaks much more in an outdoor setting vs an indoor setting since the room reflections inside help "mask" some of the variances. Hope this helps!
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Thanks again!
I generally tend to run a sine wave at both the xvr and center frequency of the subs to identify the nulls and peaks, but some venues have peculiar structures to accommodate seating and catering simultaneously, leading to formations of wild room modes and resonance.
Hope to see more great content!
Have a great day.
@@alexjonathan5398 Yes, odd room shapes definitely make it very hard to "predict" what your low end will feel like all across your audience.
Making sure you align your mains to your subs at the right point in the room also helps here, too. I've got a video in the pipeline on that in the next month or two.
Thanks for the question!
@@MichaelCurtisAudio That's great to hear!
Looking forward to it..
Hi bro, Thank you for the great video. Just in case you have a wide hall for about 1000 capacity and you want to combine speakers, like I have 4QSC Array and Two 3ways JBL. Kindly advice on this please.
I'm assuming you mean the KLA12 QSC boxes and a point source 3 way for JBL?
Thanks man!
Question, if you did not have the option of monitors for the band, would you just move those k12s back a little bit so the musicians can get it too?
You might have some feedback issues doing it that way, but with no wedges that'd be the only way to for the band to hear themselves, yes.
Hi Michael ! Thank you for your amazing work, I am kind of a newbie in system tuning. I have a question about relative simple L/R setup such as the KSC bundle (2 K12 and subs). With EQ, presets, delay integrated into the DSP, is it useful to tune the system ?
I am using this kind of setup for mobile DJ. I don't know if there is a real advantage to tune this kind is system ?
Thank you for your opinion ;)
Keep the great job
Greetings from France
Thank you for the kind words! Glad this video was helpful to you.
In my opinion, if a show is worth sounding good, it's worth tuning : ). It's a bit harder to tune rigs where you have to adjust the DSP on each speaker (as opposed to controlling it all from a computer), but it's very possible.
If it's just two subs and two tops you'll mainly be concerned with making sure your tops are on the right crossover preset for those subs, setting the levels of your subs compared to your mains, then some broad strokes EQ on the mains to get the tonality you'd like.
What is the minimum distance I can place two mains top speakers apart from each other and still have good sound? (no comb filtering, etc.?)
Mixing 18inch turbo sound subs with makie 3way speakers that have 15 inch subs.
Hey dude, love the youtube channel wondering if you can give some advice on if using these speakers together would sound good or bad and where I should place them all if i did use them together. For a DJ setup with mic.
It all depends on the phase response of each of the speaker you're mixing together. You would have to measure each of those speakers yourself and find out if the manufacturer doesn't give you that data.