The TRUTH About ZONE 3
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- čas přidán 12. 03. 2024
- In this video, I discuss the ever-controversial Zone 3, or the dreaded "grey zone." Should you be avoiding this zone? Are you wasting your time? Let's talk about it!
A quick point of clarification, I realized when playing back the video upon posting that the way that I phrased the conversation about not burning subcutaneous fat in Zone 2 could be a bit misleading; especially for those interested in nerding out on the biological processes. I wanted to convey that Zone 2 training does not simply use body fat to fuel workouts, as some people will suggest. However, I did not mean to imply that adipose tissue does not have any contribution at all to fat oxidation. In addition to intramuscular triacylglycerides, cholesterol, and dietary fat, there is some lipid contribution from subcutaneous fat for fatty acid oxidation. This doesn't negate the point that I made, but I want to ensure that the science is properly represented.
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It’s fantastic that you’re uploading more regularly again. Your content really resonates with me with it’s well thought out topics and conclusions.Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much!
this is the level of informativeness, pace, depth and scientific legitimacy i needed as an amateur, who is tired of all those overzealous narrow minded sports influencers. thank you!
For the last 2-3 years, I tried training the polarized way. I slightly improved my times/power on 3-4 min segments, but lost A LOT on longer segments. And even on sprints. So, coming back to traditional training : pushing when I feel like it, recover when I need.
Just observationally and logically, I believe that the more experienced you get in training the more critical it is to not settle into one routine. The body adapts to polarized too. Your experiences is not super surprising, how does one practice those long efforts at an appreciable pace without working that zone or capability? Polarized is often (and incorrectly) sold as a methodology that should be followed all year. The only people to whom that really applies are high volume athletes, who just by merit of the need to recover, will default to that ratio even when they are doing more intensity during their in-season.
Ultimately, as amateur athletes, we need to keep the body adapting. We can acclimate to strict polarized just as readily as we can to riding zone 3 all the time. You've likely spent that time building a phenomenal base and are poised to enhance your capacity fort those sustained efforts because you have spent the time on a great foundation. It's always exciting to feel like that "beginner" again when we introduce new stimulus and see the fruits of that labor!
Great video, as always. Editing, design, content. Top notch. The best part is the rationality of the approach. 🎉
Thank you, I appreciate the generous compliment!
Wow! I am new to your channel, and this is one of the most interesting videos I have seen in a long time. I am a 78 male and in generally fit condition. I ride my MTB during the non-winter months, generally 10 to 25 mi daily rides (varying and rugged terrain), and 1 hr indoor rides during the off-season. Indoors - I started focusing on Zone 2 with intervals in 3,4, and 5, but ultimately came to believe that the focus on Z2 did not do enough to improve muscular endurance or lactate management. So I push myself beyond Z2 and focus on what my body feels. This results in more time in Z3 & Z4, and I "feel" like this is more beneficial than simply focusing on Z2. The insight you provide in this video has helped me to see things in a different light. Many thanks... and you have gained a subscriber.
God I wish I could watch your videos on a weekly base. So much wisdom in them. So much appreciated!!! I would LOVE suggestions / reviews on suggested (existing- if present at all) Zwift workouts or perhaps even training plans.
Brilliant job, clear and thorough.
Thank you so much for simplifying the confusion around Z3. You broke it down in a way that for me personally can finally understand the importance of adding to my training regimen. Too much confusion out there on how to train properly, the 80-20 rule etc etc. Everyone is different when it comes to training responses. For me, in the past, I seemed to thrive on tempo training but stopped a few years back from coaches telling me not to do them. I now follow my own training plan with high importance in how my body feels and fatigue levels.Thank you for your great content.
OMG I love the WNY attitude in the beginning. Great vid very informative.
Absolute rock star! Thank you for the breakdown.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Teddy!
0:32. Hahaha!
Fabulous Napoleon Dynamite clip.
So glad you're able to post more often. I really enjoy your videos.
Thank you! 🙏 And teddy says hello!! 😻
Great stuff. Thorough and understandable. Especially liked the b-roll where it looked like Jan was putting in some miles on west Maui. The loop around that end of the island is EPIC!
That year in Kona was wild. The best of the best all came to play. Hoping this year we have another star-studded lineup and Jan commentating!
What a fantastic video. Thank you for this !!
Thank you! Glad it was of value!!
Nobody does it better. Or faster... Thanks Sarah! From time to time I have to change my view of things, which can be a dry pill to swallow, but you make it as painless as can be. I just need to turn up my hearing-speed to keep up.. 😄 Looking forward to the next one.
Oh, and I think I forgot to tell you that reconning the workouts through your videos on the Zwift Academy, made me complete all the long versions. I'm not sure I could have done that without you. Cheers! ❤
Nicely Done. Sharp Perspective & Insight. Also you have a great voice & keeping my attention is difficult - you kept my attention.
Thank you, I appreciate that!
Brilliant vid & explanation Thankyou 🙏
Thank you for checking it out! I am glad it was helpful!
Amazing density of valuable info
Spot on. 80/20 did not work for me when I came to a race. I'm looking at more of a "ballpark" 70/10/20 this year. Your video reinforces my belief.
Thanks for these substantial information! I'm the type of Z3 rider. Love Teddy! 🙂
Thank you, and Teddy says hi!
Another great video!! I have been adding a zone 3 workout into my schedule once/ week for the last year. Usually for 60-90 minutes at zone 3 after a high intensity workout or Zwift race. Train like you race or race like you trained. I definitely have seen benefits of training this zone.
I'm glad you have seen results! Many do!. I think too many people in the amateur ranks try to chase the methods of the pros without understanding that the read across isn't one for one. I think a very large cohort of people would do well to use zone 3 and rotate in higher ratios during their "in-season" and back off a bit and trend more toward polarized in their winter or "off-season."
Thx for this. Good food for thought. I tend to not spend enough time in zone 2. Although I am a purely recreational cyclist, I do like to maximize the benefit of my time on the bike. It’s finally looking like outdoor riding is upon us, and I’ll be hanging up my skis. With that, I’ll look to bump my zone 2 and 3 efforts in preparation for longer outdoor rides (40-60 miles). Appreciate the insights, as always.
Very good summary. It accords with what I’ve researched over the past couple of years and personal experience. I think it can help to separate aerobic training from muscle training. All cycling trains both to some degree. Z2 will likely be optimal for aerobic training if you have unlimited time but be more limited on muscle fatigue resistance as you say. I think there’s a case for training in low Z3 for aerobic training if you are time limited. If you can repeat it in the time you have (eg you have 5 hours a week, 4 sessions) without cumulative fatigue over weeks then I think it would be best. But if you could add more time then riding at low Z3 would be too fatiguing and you’d get more optimal riding in Z2 for aerobic training. (I suspect that is around 6-8 hours or more a week cycling time). You still need to do some top end work for muscle strength and respiratory training (aka VO2 Max limits). Seiler says there is nothing the science says is critical about training just above or below LT1 - it’s about what you can truly recover from and so get stronger.
This is a really well thought and common sense explanation of zone training. I think it too easy for new cyclist especially to get caught up in the hype and avoid zone 3 when it is one of the quicker ways to get up to the intermediate levels where more polarized training makes sense. Thank you for a breath of fresh air!
Thank you! And agreed, too much content farming can really dilute the subject matter and have people's heads spinning!
I like the Kinetic Cycling ‘drift’ workouts, where you do the bulk of your ride in Zone 2, then end with increasing amounts of low Zone 3 - but as you identify here, I end up with some… let’s say “guilt” at going out of Zone 2 on these days, despite the intentioned approach. It’s daft.
I like how you’ve structured this presentation of ideas - nice one!
That was very helpful. I started a Zone 2 group ride yesterday with Levi L. and volunteered to go back and helps a few stragglers off the back. My Kicker Move decided to get stuck with high resistance (never happened before) so I ended up in my small ring trying to get back to the group. Zone 3 accounted for 75% of the ride with a lower cadence than I wanted. Suffice to say my muscles are a little sore today so will do an hour recovery pace ride at a lower Zone 2.
That resistance bug seems to creep up at random but it's so rare I think it's tough to get it solved. But sore legs mean adaptations! 😉💪
Unfortunately it isn’t so rare to see within the last few weeks and for me it is also the Kickr Move. Not really sure if it was the firmware for the Move end of February or one of the last Zwift updates. A friend of mine is telling me the same, think about the benefit of going harder, still prefer doing it intentionally.
Outstanding Ted Talk! Did you take a breath the entire time? 😂
Excellent points regarding scientific studies. 👍
For me, as an old giffer, zone 3 is important as it's generally where I ride at for the longer and steadier climbs (5%-12%) on an endurance event, so I do mix up a fair bit of zone 2 and 3 on my longer indoor training efforts. Happy to see you champion zone 3 a bit. Good video. 🙂
Thank you so much! I think the approach you use works for most amateur riders. Pros and elites follow a different rubric, and many of them recognized their potential by doing a fair amount of Z3! Too many people comparing their 8 hours per week of training to a Pro's 20 hours a week and assume the same model should apply. Creators in this space don't help matters when they parrot those ideas!
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic that's a very good point. On the same topic I heard someone say the other day: the more weekly training time you have, the more polarised your approach should be. For example if you're an enthusiast with only 4-5hrs to spend on riding you might be better off spending them on some sweetspot, some VO2 and a less structured endurance ride.
Personally I ride all my rides to how I feel, you have to push up hill you can get a rest on the other side, you have to push into a head wind, you can get a rest when you turn a corner. You need to ride in what they are calling zones, and all of them, your body won't know how to react to the demand of zone 3 or 4 if you only train in zone 1 or 2.
I do 1 long ride 100km + a week, the others are from 45 minutes to 1.30 hour, made up of a warm up then intervals of different types, this type of training works for me and has done for the last 40+ years of training, I'm 59, 6ft 6 and weigh 85kg.
Finally someone talked about Z3. ❤
Information bomb 💥
Zone 3 is great if you're time pressured and doing limited training hours 😎
Over 8 hours a week you'll naturally spend more time in zone 2.
I probably spend too much time in z3, I'm just coming to realise how "easy" zone two actually is. I definitely will keep doing z3 as part of my endurance training but I need to slow down a little and get more into the real z2 as well.
This resonates with me - for a good while now it's all been zone 2/polarized training directed as the most efficient way to train ' this is how the pros train'. But I'm not a pro, don't race and don't have the available time to do more than 10-12 hours a week training. On long solo rides I started to find that I was pushing along in tempo, yes endurance is fine, but more and more I ended up sitting in tempo, occasional threshold efforts on climbs. Yes lower zone 2 rides have their place but outside irl rides I enjoy sitting at tempo pushing a good pace/wattage, perhaps on a large group ride i may do some extra time in zone '2' but overall if it's a long ride outside it's usually always tempo.
You are right. I am training for a half marathon. To do well I have to train at that pace. It is zone 3. I like to push the top of zone 3 to see where it bumps up to zone 4. Half marathon racing for me is the top of zone 3 breaking into zone 4 at the end. Marathon racing is zone 3 until you lose it and you start doing zone 2 to recovery before trying zone 3 again until you make it to the finishing line.
I have to admit I never use(d) trainings plans. It is now at least 10 years ago when I meticulously wrote down my "data" by using a Sigma Sport 1200 bicyle computer and a heart rate monitor, and when I once had a fabulous weekend, the next week I rode the same routes at the same speed as the week before, but the following weekend was not as good as the previous one, so I learned that the same body reacts to the same training stimulus in a completely different way. Nowadays I just start my riding with always warming up on a stationary bike ( an old MTB on a Tacx Satori Pro T1830) for at least 6-8 minutes, depending on how fast I am getting warm, and there I already get an impression on my daily body condition. If my heart and my muscles repond well, I am going faster, if not, I still go as fast as possible, but on one out of ten rides, my Edge 530 shows it was a "basic" ride. Seven of ten turn out to be a "tempo" ride, one turns out to be a "Threshold" ride (I suppose so; as I am german, it shows "Schwelle"), and one is a "VO max" ride. Due to the fact my heart does not go easily above 170 (I fear it has something to do with my age of now nearly 51), it is not easy to do more "VO max" (or even above) rides. I hope I can help myself by doing some intensive intervals on my stationary bike, and as the weather is predicted to become cold and rainy with the beginning of next weekend I will have the time to do so. Weigtlifting in the gym (especially leg press) turned out not to be targeted for me, due to a one-sided catrilage damage in one knee I simply cannot put on as much weight as a so-called "ectomorph hard gainer" (long tall body built with 137lbs at 5.8 ft) needs to to gain some muscels; for me, an EMS traings device (Compex Sport 4.0) turned out to be more effective.
Wow!! I am super-impressed...scientific info presented scientifically, with a thorough multifaceted approach...rigorous thinking. Damn, that's a rarity indeed out here in YT land! You are a diamond!
On this topic, for now, I offer some thoughts: When it comes to fat burn rate, we ought to be interested more in absolute fat burn rate, not in relative. Yes, at low intensity the majority of energy 80-90% (means it's relatively much higher than from glycogen) is from fat metabolism, but since we're at low intensity, the absolute rate may be lower than it would be at higher intensity where fat burn is a smaller percentage. Rough example: At 100 W (typical Z1-2 for many of us), 80-90 W might be from fat. At 250 W (where fat burn may be ~ 50% of total energy), 125 W may be from fat. So, you burn fat at a higher absolute, though lower relative, rate when at a higher intensity. The problem though is that the fatigue-total stress on the body is so much greater at 300 W, that you cannot train nearly as long at that power, and that's why you need to train the fat-burning metabolism at lower intensity...where you can get a longer "dose", time-integral of fat-burning power.
As to Z3, well, there's such a small difference between it and Z2, in terms of fatigue-total stress, that it really makes sense to use Z3 if you want to get equivalent dosimetry of fat-burning metabolism in a shorter amount of time. Really, it's just a bit silly to even make the distinction and especially to try knowing it (without lactate testing in real time). Also, it could make sense to get a little lactate flowing anyway, as happens in Z3, since lactate clearance might be trained by doing this.
Thank you! It's important to my own value system to remain as objective as I can possibly be (knowing we all have biases) and try to share information in a way that honors the subject matter. I know it will limit my growth in this space, as the average viewer prefers very diluted and scrollable content, but I much prefer the audience that I have been able to cultivate by exploring topics with more nuance and detail.
You make some good points, where I might disagree, which I don't think its a full disagreement, is that Zone 2 and Zone 3 do start diverge more substantially as the athlete's volume increases. Yes, in a 6-8 hour training week, a lot of riders can simply replace their zone 2 with zone 3 and manage the fatigue perfectly fine. Athletes that start working over 10 hours in a single discipline or multi-discipline athletes who could do upwards of 25 hours are going to need to train down to zone 2 because the fatigue will absolutely stack up. I think the same applies (anecdotally) to beginner athletes who haven't yet built a significant base or elemental muscular endurance. Basically the hefty long tails in the training population will likely see their training needs follow something more reminiscent of pure polarized where zone 3 work slots into their intensity days, where the meaty part can likely achieve pretty close to their potential with a healthy amount of zone 3 for aerobic work, their high intensity days, and sneaking in those very long zone 2 lines where they can during a training block.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic You're very welcome, and thanks+kudos again for being one of the very few exceptions to the rule in this arena!
As to your reasoning about Z3 probably being more suited for the time-crunched athletes and not so for those who have the time to put in 25-30 hrs per week, I agree...point well taken indeed. We both know though that there may be some exceptions, some athletes who can do the Z3 instead of Z2 for a large proportion of their workout time, and so it would seem that those lucky ones might just get an extra edge by doing so. They might be able to prioritize Z3 or equalize it with Z2. Seems to me that Z3 actually deserves a lot more attention since it can be a best-of-both-worlds middle ground, and is definitely not a no-man's land.
As always, everyone's a little different and also, as Heraclitus stated, "You never set foot in the same river twice."..an individual who can handle more Z3 this year may not be able to do it the next, right? The one thing I still find tough to do, especially since I'm a sort of anti-gizmo guy, is to be sure when one has left Z2 and is in Z3 but not yet Z4. I think even the gizmo folks are having some challenges with that, if they only have HR or power meters..."calibrating" one's zones is still a rather imprecise science and requires regular periodic attention. I think I've seen some news recently about real-time lactate monitoring becoming more practical, a new gizmo...maybe that'll be the answer for being sure when one enters Z3?
I suppose my bias is clear enough: Not a gizmo guy and limited to about 6-8 hours, partly by choice and partly because I can't really afford the gizmos or the extra time and the extra bike maintenance & food costs for training more than that.
Again, thank you for the great work. I'm now a faithful new subscriber looking forward to more and wishing you all the best!
Yes, talking as a former cyclist. When you have done the long base of easy spinning, and you have constructed your form as a cyclist (from a beginner I guess 1-2 years). There comes a time to apply force to the pedals, like actual muscle force (subjective feeling) but staying well away from getting acid in the legs. Even doing 100 km sustained effort af applying actual muscle force (I know this hand wavy) into the pedals can really develop you to the next level. Eddie Merckx comes to mind, he had this insane strength (muscle endurance) that gave him the ability to just go to the front and out suffer and out cycle the competition. He trained much of this ability with motor pacing, which is exactly this type of training, hard sustained efforts but not time trial effort. I actually feel this type of training is the key to leveling up once a cyclist has become a real serious cyclist after having gone through a long solid aerobic adaption (2-3 years). So, absolutely not for beginners, and should be treated with caution, plan deloads because this kind of training can really take it out of you.
I just had fun on Zwift, beat a PB, just came on to find out if I had completely wasted an 90 minutes 😂 Makes sense, you have to train where you would like to be for longer and longer durations (specivity) , just not every session
Oh my! You dropped a truth bomb here. I've become increasingly aware of the crap advice dispensed on many popular running channels. Yesterday I watched a video from a popular channel that said that when your heart rate drifts up during a long run and "gets out of zone 2" you should slow down or else you'll lose the aerobic benefit of your run AND increase injury risk. The former is dubious, unless you started the run pushing the top end of zone 2 - also considering that few of us know where the zone 2-3 boundary is beyond approximation. The latter is ridiculous, as the cause(s) of heart rate drift, while not entirely settled, have nothing to do with the stresses from too hard running that increase injury risk. But how many people will just uncritically take the advice and think they're improving their training?
It really is frustrating. I try to assume good faith as much as possible, but it is hard sometimes to see people parrot the same tired talking points at the expense of the community. The most charitable interpretation I have is that it's just lazy. Creators pump out content without doing their due diligence and understanding the subject matter. I have seen the rare few do it well, and they often "pick a side" in this debate then explain why. Some coaching groups or individual coaches really focus on a particular type of athlete and will push a more strict polarized model. They explain why this choice is optimal for the volume and the focus of the athletes they serve and generally acknowledge the specificity in the use cases. When a person says that you "lose the aerobic benefit" they don't deserve a voice in this space, sorry...that's not even subject to interpretation. It's simply wrong! I don't even understand the injury comment, it defies logical sense to me. Typically zone 2 running would take up more overall volume than zone 3, simply by nature of a runner's endurance. If anything, high volume athletes doing a lot of zone 2 face a higher vulnerability to injury.
If I had to guess, someone haphazardly said that and then the next person parroted it and so on. It's quite sad. I think that CZcams has been an overall force for good in socializing some of this information, but it also has introduced a lot of misinformation into this space. Some athletes don't want to distill the information and think critically about it, they just want simple instructions that they can follow. As a result, they take snippets like that and operate as if they are true. It's frustrating to say the least!
Well said ... "zone 3 IN THE ABSENCE OF STRUCTURED TRAINING" is the problem but as part of a structured plan it's all good.
That's the long and short of it, lol. Athletes can't help themselves. Following a training plan can be arduous, but it keeps people on the rails!
Hi Sarah, great video. I just have maybe a stupid question but I was always wondering - what are you doing profesionaly in life? Looking at your PC setup its definitely not for making youtube videos, and not for gaming for plesure :) The big screen and second keybord maskes me wonder :)
Thank you. Yes, z3 is what I default too or race in.
Super common. It's fun to ride there, but like all things, balance is important! 🙂
This episode is really informative however I wanna give a little advice that background music became a bit annoying when I was trying to digest the content haha
Thank you! 😉
I once cut all zone 3 for a period because of a running injury (tempo runs) and i plateaued at that time. My training program again includes zone 3 and im seeing improvements so ill keep going until i don't.
I think the more experienced you get, the more vulnerable you are to plateau on a more polarized model. You have to strategically bake in that Zone 3 work throughout the year to force an adaptation.
@0:01 Now that's a Ted talk
(Meewooow)
May I ask what screen / monitor you're using? Need more screen real estate for my work and am really inspired with what you're using.
I've actually had that for about 6 years, I think? I bought an LG 43" Tv in the middle of their range, I think it would be the equivalent of their QNED line today. I would comment on the only real challenge I have, which is partly because the LED technology is older, it's not their higher end model, and just the fact that it is a TV versus a monitor designed for purpose - colors are a little tough to dial in to represent true color. They are really nice and vivid, but when you are trying to edit video or photos, things are going to be more contrasty on the TV than they will show up on mobile devices or in print. I've learned to work around it, but depending on your purpose, it might be important to note. When I replace this TV, likely in the next year, I will probably buy a C series model and be a little more diligent with color calibration. I think my setup would be great for a LOT of use cases and lets people really drill into details and use the real estate effectively, I just have to give the caveat on colors to those for whom it might be a more critical component. Hope this helps 😉
I agree. How can one race, sometimes for several hours, in Zone 3 if you don't spend time training in that special kind of pain?
I do almost no zone 2 in my training. That’s because squeezing in 60-90 mins sessions 3-4 times a week I can’t possibly get enough volume at Z2 to maintain fitness. If I can get out on a 5 hour Z2 Saturday ride, that’s a good bonus, but I can’t bank on that.
I didn't talk about it here, but I have in previous videos: for athletes who train less than 8 hours a week, they often see a better return by using zone 3 instead of zone 2 because they have off the bike recovery baked into their weeks. Like you stated, nothing replaces those long endurance rides, so if you can get those in a couple times a month, that will pay dividends, but people often get too wrapped around the axle about polarized and when they don't have the volume to get the right stimulus on that ratio, progress can be slow!
Hell yeah Buffalo , i miss it so all the snow , well summer now lol
There are really only two months in Buffalo that are horrendous, February and March. Snow usually gives way to cold and mud and you are stuck in this grey zone (no pun intended) when it's dark all the time and we are not really being able to enjoy the outside.
Why are you not offering coaching services?
I'm not good at sticking to a training program. I once tried doing a 120 km ride in zone 2, and ended up spending 20 percent in zone 2,
25 in z1, 25 in z3, 17 in z4, 8 in z5, and the rest above 😔
It can be hard for sure! Sometimes it helps to work in some days that you can be more free form in exchange for being strict for a couple key sessions each week. That way you don't suck all the fun out of training but you still make progress! 😉
So instead of letting the Z3 happens too much is better getting down onto Z2 or up to Z4 depending on our goals?
thank you for the tiktok style video content on the monitor to keep my goldfish level attention span in check while watching
😛
I actually knew that B roll and supporting images would be tough for this one to break up the visuals, so I thought the Kona compillation would help people have something to occupy their eyes 😉
Go Bills!!!
Go Bills! - Mafia
That's the correct answer 😁
Hi. By saying that at zone 2 you are gaining 85% of zone 3 advantages like mitochondria development and all this stuff, but with less fatigue, was it a random number? Are you asserting that all those developments that everybody praises these days in zone 2, are even bigger in zone 3 (in the condition that the training load is sustainable of course)? It would change a lot of things for me so if you have time for a feedback...Thank you very much.
Hello 🙂While the 85% number is not something I would claim to be exact, it's directionally correct. The assumption, however, is that you are making up some of the delta with training time. If you are comparing the exact same number of training hours, that math will be a little different. The benefits will vary by what benefits you are looking at; for instance, you will see 75% or more of the benefit in mitochondrial density, 50% of glycogen storage benefits, 66% of the interconversion of type 2 muscle fibers, etc. The chart I displayed at 5:27 seeks to visualize the scale of benefits (in a somewhat crude way), and you can see a high-level comparison of the differences between those benefits. There are also a number of articles and resources online that talk about this chart in more detail. Here is a take on this concept from TrainingPeaks that uses Coggan's work as an underpinning of their model: www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/power-training-levels/
You can see right at the top of the chart the substantial disparity between training length and the fatigue that will come from that will be substantial. While you might only see 75% of the mitochondrial density benefit in a Z2 ride, you may have the capacity to go twice as long as you could in Z3, ultimately getting a greater benefit. Individual athlete capacity is going to be a very critical component here.
What I didn't discuss too much in the video for the sake of time is the concept of hours to train. I touched on it with my comment about pro athletes, but if an athlete only has up to 8 hours to train, they will likely be better off introducing more zone 3 than zone 2 (assuming their life stress still allows adequate recovery) and then using that stray free weekend day or day off from work to throw in a nice long zone 2 ride. As people start to get up into the 10+ hour category, the issue is a bit more forced, and they need to do more zone 2 to manage fatigue. So they may have a mix of 60-70% zone 2, 10-15% intensity, and 15-30% zone 3, depending on their individual goals. This is why I rail against the generalizations in this space. The real answer to what training distribution is best is that it depends!
I hope this is the type of detail you were looking for 🙂
I thought that Zone 2 is the enemy,
I like zone 3, but of course you can train it 2-3 times per week only.
Hit the like button right after your weather disclaimer…. same here in Chi…
I'm in Chicago as we speak 😂
Today was a decent day, yesterday better…. Enjoy and travel safe!
Extremely well articulated context - a great nuanced narrative to help inform our training plan structure - thanks!
@@mejdrichj yesterday was awesome... Thank you!
I do 45 minutes 5 days a week in zone 3 , i don't do other zones, is this dangerous?
11:20 kinda disagree with that, like half way. Long rides to muscular fatigue at Z2 will demand more and more output from fast twitch fibers as slow twitch fibers fatigue and this in turn increases their ability to work aerobically.
and maybe some athletes need Z3 only as pacing practice for their event. I seem to be one of those: i don't develop in Z3.
And i think muscle-fiber typology plays major part on why Z3 is one of those contested training areas, with no clear agreement on how much is universally needed to make top athlete.
The interconversion of type 2 muscle fibers occurs at zone 2 and zone 3. At Zone 3, you will have a greater capacity to develop type 2A fibers than in Zone 2. The limiter is fatigue. Building the muscular endurance to maintain Z3 for longer will accelerate that benefit profoundly. People assume that improving performance requires an FTP boost or to go faster and if they don't see a shift in metrics, they believe there is no impact. The fatigue resistance and muscular endurance gained in zone 3 far supersede pacing and do apply to all phenotypes. The true question is the effective dose. A crit racer with limited hours to train may not see the ROI in zone 3, at least not often, and that's fine, but it doesn't negate the benefit. Most generalists and endurance specialists, however, will absolutely benefit from the inclusion of tempo work once or more per week (depending on their target execution).
Quesiton: Are there any considerations for the number of hours per week dedicated to training? What I mean is, if I only have 5-7 hours to train on the bike and my goal is to improve my Zwift racing, would I be better served focusing on Zone 3 over Zone 2 prior or during the Zwift Racing League season? Bleh, trying to tailor this to my needs and getting confused! :)
This is an excellent question! Zone 3 can be very powerful and efficient for the time-crunched cyclist. I think for many, doing more Z3 would yield more improvement in FTP and/or aerobic development overall, but it would be more important to throw in a deload week every 4-6 weeks to shed fatigue. That said, there is no replacement for those long endurance rides so if you could sneak a 2+ hour endurance ride in every week or two, it really does make a difference. 5-7 hours can, of course, be spent differently depending on availability. But I am guessing some of your days are an hour or so. If you space properly to facilitate recovery then mixing your high intensity with Z3 with those deload weeks should yield some dividends.
Definitely listen to the signals your body gives you. If you start approaching burnout because life stress is ever present, trade down those zone 3 rides for zone 2.
Best I can suggest is experiment and adjust, but my initial thought is that hour zone 2 rides aren't going to get you nearly as much as z3 🙂
And take a breath 😅
Please, please slow down a bit.
I'm most curious on zone 1. People only talk about it in short durations for active recovery. E.g if you do 4 hours of it is it a waste of time?
what would be your goal with doing 4h ov Z1? If you have that time its clearly more beneficial to do it at Z2
@@bingoberra18 no goal just some club group rides leave me in in zone 1 the whole ride. And it's not that clear as eg zone 2 could be more reliant on glycogen than zone 1 so might be a way to help an over anaerobic rider or something.
I did three months of 20 hour weeks, about 40-50% of the time-in-zone was Zone1, plenty of 3-4 hours on bike. Directly i didn't benefit from it, did few tests at end of that phase and all showed no sign of progress, not my aerobic threshold, FTP or Vo2max. And i did about 1 and a half hard session per week, FTP and sweet spot. So i was at least maintaining my top fitness.
So after that i moved to V02max phase of my training. All training soaked into my body like i've never felt before and i did considerable improvements in few of my key session. Same with following FTP phase.
So i'd say that it did work. But it is work which requires to have faith in what your are doing. What Z1 does is build the invisible basement.
Important metric to me was that i still had to experience muscle fatigue to trust that muscle has to do something to adapt. Feeling fresh after session was not ideal. Initially i had times i couldn't push Z2 without considerable discomfort, Needless to say that my muscles were quite fatigued. It got better overtime, but i never felt that i was at top shape.
It's also good to know that plenty of World Tour Pros ride a lot Z1 during their training. Not all, like UAE apparently, but i've seen stats from DSM to show that they do a lot of Z1 annually.
So people have already shared some good insights here, so I will try to keep my response brief and not repeat those points. I do want to be careful when I say zone 1 is a waste of time. People get a little sensitive about that, and I understand why. If you're enjoying your bike, it's worth it and it won't hurt your training by any means. But, if we are talking about training efficiency and performance, zone 1 should be limited to 30-60 minutes for active recovery with all other "low-intensity" rides in Zone 2. Zone 1 has little to no physiological benefit outside of helping to flush those nasty byproducts from the muscles after your hard work. From a cardiovascular standpoint, it could be some decent maintenance if you are nursing an injury or getting over illness, but we are talking about health versus performance impacts. If you can get up to 55-60% of FTP, you will glean a substantially higher fitness benefit than at 40-50% (assuming your FTP is fairly representative of your true Lactate Threshold). A little bit more goes a LONG way as you get into low zone 2. 🙂
Zone 1 with the coffee please.
Not sure what that means
It was a joke ,that you were talking so fast it was like you had extra energy from a substantial amount of coffee@@EverythingIsPhotogenic
🍎🍎🍎🍎…
I don’t bother with any weak Zone 2 or lighter. Weak Zones typify this soft age of cream puffs.
Sure, but what does backward hat Sarah say?
😂 she would say VO2 Max or GTFO
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic😂
Why does the camera keep moving??? It's making me sick.
Guess you can't watch any movies or tv shows with handheld cameras or motion. Sorry to hear that.
zone 3 is very similar to zone 2 from an adaptation or homeostasis viewpoint. but z3 creates a lot more fatigue which prevents adding more volume or training higher intensities effectively. folk love it because their strava shows a higher av speed. its the vanity zone.
That's not entirely accurate. I believe I discussed that pretty thoroughly in this video.
Did you know that when you race you are tapping on all the zones and majority will be on that “grey zone”? Pretty sure you wouldn’t stay in zone 2 racing stupid 😂
Interesting video but please slow down the speech. Use verbal full stops.
I was about to make the same comment. She's really hard to follow but definitely worth listening to.
You can change the speed of the playback by accessing the setting icon in the top right hand corner of the video..
Good content, but you really need to speak a little slower!
I don’t bother with any weak Zone 2 or lighter. Weak Zones typify this soft age of cream puffs.
Do you ever have anything to say that's not seething with aggression and judgment? Put up or shut up.
Bless, does somebody want a hug sitting alone, feeling angry at everything 😂