Don't Starve Together | Ancient Mural Interpretation Rant
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Here's a quick video about my most prominent ideas after viewing the murals! It's mostly just be ranting about possibilities, but if you haven't watched the previous lore video I highly recommend it. I would also suggest you complete the Metheus puzzle if you haven't done that either.
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![Don't Starve Together: Tree's a Crowd [Woodie Animated Short]](/img/n.gif)
8:41 aww it looks like the queen defended the king with her torch even after he seemed to put her aside for more power at 6:13, protecting him from the shadows leaving herself exposed to danger, and it appears she did lose her life as her mask lay on the ground in the next slides broken while the king cried on the throne seeing what the power of the nightmare fuel had cost him. I swear if they made a cinematic for this downfall and really spent some time on it it’d be fantastic
I thought so, too i swear
Ever notice the king looks like he was crying on the throne?
That's what I was thinking too.
Yeah, me too
Me too
This Was Nightmare Throne ANd The King First Person Siting On It
Yea
I've always considered that Maxwell uses quotes to refer to the moon because it is fake. There's not anything else backing up this though, however.
The moon(or even the sun) might be pretty much the source of both the White lights in the murals. Meaning the ancients are channeling the power of the moon in order to use the Gateway.
Thulecite might be for the Sun what Moon Rock is for the moon, hence the importance of representing the sun with the Thulecite symbol.
Exactly what I was thinking, the world of Don't Starve probably isn't on Earth so their moon isn't Luna.
You have a good point. However, at the end of Klei's Forge Event video, you can see Charlie receiving a sort of white light from the gateway. Could this be the same substance depicted in the murals? Maybe the white light isn't channeling into the gateway, but rather emitting from it.
Also I would like to point out that in order to get the shadow atrium, which reanimates the Ancient Fuelweaver, you have to kill the shadow pieces. These pieces can only be fought during the new moon. I'm not sure how this ties into everything, but I think it's interesting how all this ancient civilization-shadow-magicky stuff is connected to the "moon".
Maybe the surface isnt the surface. we dont see the sky maybe we are underground and getting light from something that resambles thulicite.
To support we being underground the water on the edge of the world flows to a pitch black space not something like in shipwrecked in that it was fog
no es tan descabellado despues de la ultima actualizacion return of them la luna no es una simple luna es una identidad antigua o lo que sea pero esta ahi oculto durante todo este tiempo
Every new release they make, the more this game looks like to the books of H.P. Lovecraft.
Even more so with the new return of them beta
Yup
My lorehead is having a loregasm
14:17 look on bottom left there is like an ancient man giving a flower to a...... beast?
Amar Esam its an ancient giving offerings to the worms that come for you in the caves like how hounds come to you on the surface, perhaps the ancients found a way to tame the worms?
1:44 HOLY CRAP! The 2nd and 5th things have the ancient herald's crown/head on it!
9:24 the thing the torch weilder is fighting looks like a shadow hand reaching for the torch but getting stopped. Sorta like how the shadow hands reach for your fire but you stop them by stepping on them
You missed something the cane wielder was actually crying maybe because his city got ruined,he probaly is the fuel weaver due to some of his quotes such my city my world. While the torch welider is methus due to he saying forgive me methus i was wrong. The torch wielder turned into a nightmare creature whom needed a body which is charlies's body
My guess is that the fuel-weaver is the Cane-user monster, mainly for his quotes about his "world", his city, his empire, and how he says he was wrong and asks forgiveness to "Metheus", which could easily be his partner that protected him with his (or her, but I am guessing he is a guy because Metheus sounds a lot like Matthews xD) torch, against the original Grue (yeah, the one that possessed Charlie), but ultimately failed and became the Grue himself until Charlie came, and this is why the puzzle is called "Metheus' puzzle", because Metheus, as Charlie, gave the test to us.
Of course, this could be the other way around: Metheus is the creature with the cane, because we get the cane (and treasure chest) skin from this puzzle, while we battle the other guy: Cyclum (the fuel-weaver), since we get the tragic torch skin from the "Cyclum puzzle".
ContraFuerza It's confirmed by Klei that Metheus is female, and the Ancient Fuelweaver is male.
Ya'll are missing something very important: *the nightmare cycle*
The ancient covering his eyes is making the same gesture as the characters when are insane! This may mean the civilization went to shit when the cycle hit the 3rd fase, it's the most dangerous and incontrollable after all.
Very interesting interpretation. I love it!
OK, so The Ancients were bugs? So is Hollow Knight a prequel to Don't Starve Together?
Void = Nightmare Fuel
@@archdruidbookwalter951 hol up that'd actually make sense
👀
So dst in an unofficial abyss expansion
Game Theory! hire this man right now!
1) You've earned a sub,
2) Amazing Theory holy crap
3) Bro, you're so smart like I couldn't gather this shit from looking at it I just died, so great job bro
4) Also, I know that you've probably said this, but I think the reason the Fuel weaver protects the weird portal thing, is cuz the last time they activated it, their entire empire was taken over, Killed everyone (if not converting them to statues of horror, kinda like a medusa). And so he destroys it on the player's death, or if you beat him, you open the portal leading to shadow realm
Sorry for stating the obvious but I fought I'd pitch my idea, (although it's probably been said 100 times:3)
Keep up the fantastic work bro :D
What if the symbol above the king's head isnt a closed eye (the opened eye has 4 points while the closed eye has 3), but actually a W. All the people who sat on the throne have their name starting with a W (Including Maxwell/William)
The Ancients used to live above ground until they ran out of
resources that they thought were good enough for them aka the
different colored gems such as yellow and green. so they retreated
into the caves in hope of finding a new source of "power" so they
went into the cave and found the ancient gateway, but at this point
it was not ancient as in "new" 2 leaders took to power 1 holding the
torch and the other holding the cane. to activate the gateway in
doing so the power turned unbalanced the 1 with the cane went to the
nightmare fuel route while the other leader attempted to stay a more
traditional route seeing that this was not a good thing to do. The
1 with the cane used nightmare fuel for "good" creating defenses with
clockworks, growing crops with it, more gems and even revival of ancient
beings. But what were these beings before "the ancients" came to power?
skeletons of the last civilization to take power? Anyways, It is
showing that they start to use nightmare fuel to run everything they do
but that takes a turn for the worst. in the 3rd side it shows the torch
wielder attempting to defend his friend from the nightmares that he
caused but is he now only realizing that of which he's done. Their
fellow ancient people turning into nightmares. tainting the land around
it is to late to do anything. In the final side of
the obelisk it shows the ruler of which had the cane and the nightmares
taking over everything a dead skull of his friend who which attempted
to save him leaves him in tears and that is why his eyes are covered
but as you look a the nightmare throne you see white light perhaps
his friend is still trying to protect him from the grave. the tragic torch
burns with white flames, but when we get it is is burning with nightmares
the 2 become 1 within an item. (I couldn't link the pictures I wanted but oh well.
This is a spot on interpretation and pretty much exactly what I concluded. A couple things to note though, were you implying that these "beings" on the mural and the "ancients" in power were two separate entities or that the being became the ancient civilization? I'm also curious why you're referring to the power emanating from the portal as nightmare fuel. Finally the on the last page you referred to the color white as a protector to the thrown and an essence in the flame however I don't see that beyond being a color that could've been anything else. I'm curious what happened to the king/queen on the thrown and how Charlie correlates to the big picture. Obviously it's very possible she's the dark power that came from the portal but why did she attack, where did she come from and why is she harassing the present day survivors.
For the first I don't know exactly what the last civilization was were they bug people? were they animals? I don't know. But if they are reviving things that means something came before them. Second I use nightmare fuel for the "running everything" part as in the game you use nightmare fuel in alot of the magic based tools and refueling them. Third I assume since if you were coloring this on a tablet or something they had to color it white for a reason since the background is tan and I just associate white with a "purity" or "protector" kind of feel. I do not know the exact lore for this is just a meir theory, if I put more time into thinking I might just get a clearer idea but I had a lot of stuff going on a month ago since I was failing most of my classes. Aka I just put something together for what I though I saw in the mural.
i think the white means the power from the gems
as the gems are all colorful and white is a mixture of all the collor
(sorry for bad english its not my first lenguage)
Hmm, interesting but I see two mistakes.First: Maxwell created that clockwork things, not the acient ones. Second: Carlie can't be the shadow, the Shadows bring Charlie there with Maxwell so she can't be there. I em sorry for mine English.
What if the torch wielder is Metheus? Maybe that is why when the fuelweaver dies, he says “Metheus lend me your power one more time.” And this is assuming the fuelweaver is the cane holder.
I also enjoyed the lore part in this puzzle. The art was fun to dig into as well. Overall, the whole lore and art was far more worthwhile than the actual prizes hehe.
Yeah! I've always seen the skins as a bonus.
"Thus... winter is coming."
That conclusion cracked me up for real xD
If you compare the "ancient throne" to the "nightmare throne," there are some striking similarities.
So, basically they were preparing for underground chrismas party but it gone wrong and they basically got extinct
Basicly.
A thing above the staff wielder's head? Looks to me like the stress symbol in Darkest Dungeon
Staff wielder's resolve is tested...Stalwart!
The first time we see the staff encircled by the shadows is in the part where the torch wielder is below the staff wielder. Also when the torch wielder is using the torch to get rid of the shadows the shadows are going away from the staff like Zeklo noted. Also when playing DST when night times comes you have to get out your torch or you will get killed. My guess is that the Ancient with the staff wanted to use the shadows for their own benefits whilst the ancient with the torch didn’t like the shadows and wanted them gone. This eventually led to the ancient with the torch sacrificing themselves to save the staff ancient from the evil power of the shadows. Then we see what looks like is the staff ancient crying probably regretting their decisions.
Eventually the shadows consume the staff ancient turning them into the fuel weaver and using them to spread across the land. Sometimes the fuel weavers regains control and tries to stop them from spreading shadows.
Zella I just realized something so after the fuel weaver fight those throne things pull the fuel weaver down and the fuel weaver was made to harvest the nightmare fuel from the portal but the old guys kinda did a lot of stuff with it think of it as something like Mercury it poison but they dident know it so after using it to much they started changing but the guy with the torch stepped up and stopped it when they were trying to remove it it was to late it started killing them 1 by 1 so to make sure that it never happens to anything else they made the fuel weaver protect the gate from whatever is inside of it but the player weakens it Charlie then kills it and will then open the gate and get whatever is inside it and unleash the power
Got damn auto correct
In another video of yours, when examining the statues, Wickerbottom says " This seems to be an interesting, ectoplasmic residue -bearing variety of ziosite." The "ziosite" might be the yellow color of the statues, rather than the thulicite. The thulicite is technically a variety of ziosite, so maybe that's why the statues drop thulicite when mined.
Also if you look at the video ("Ancients to fuelweaver lore speculation"), there are is a lot that can be connected with this video, I'd recommend watching the video, if you haven't already, and see what other connections you might make.
I believe that the moon used to fuel the ancient civilization, and when the shadows came from the gateway, they started to replace the lunar energy, and obviously caused some changes over time, such as the ancients transforming, and even nightmare fissures.
The particle effect from the shadow thurible is identical to the particle effect from the tragic torch. This strongly enforces the connection between the torch wielder and the fuelweaver as that particle effect is nowhere else in the game.
Thinking about it further, it might confirm that the Staff Wielder is the Fuelweaver, and that maybe that familiar glow is what makes the Reanimated Skeleton follow it so religiously
I used to think that it was totally dumb when everyone said fuel weaver was the queen, but I just realized... Metheus was the king, because he held the staff and when you do the metheus puzzle, you get the ancient staff, which the king had. So if the fuel weaver was the queen, it would kinda make sense, but also not really.
11:07 I believe to see Chester up in the top right. Also there's a bone and you've talked about eyes a lot. Maybe Chester is (a part of) an ancient?
Love this content, great job!
Great video! I think the staffweilder covering his eyes meant to represent an emotion, sorrow. Him getting stuck on the throne and meeting Maxwell is also possible. Thus explaining how he knows so much. You can also say it's because of the Codex Umbra, but there were no proof of that codex containing any information on the ancients. Also what's been bugging me is: In the story, where is the ancient guardian? Maxwell says: "My, my the fuel change you." meaning he had an earlier form. Also he's under the influence of a curse as stated by Woodie and Wendy. I wonder if we would be able to find out who is the guardian, since he holds and guards the gateway's key. What do you think of him? Any ideas how he fits into the picture?
Edit: Thus seeing the staff-weilder showing sorrow on the last page and him beeing the only one surviving leds me to believe he is the fuelweaver. It makes sence, seeing how he can manipulate fuel in many ways on the second page. And through the years he learned how to transfer his consience with nightmare fuel. That's my idea anyways.
This is the first time I've seen these murals. So interesting. Love this game.
8:40 And we know now from the most recent short that the light from the torch is identical to that which the Gestalts are made of
I like to think that the ancient on the throne stood off and turned to dust so then to make sure the person on the throne doesn't get off again they attach them to the throne like they did to maxwell
16 minutes hmm. Well into the rabbit hole
The original rant amounted to 30 minutes xD I cut it down as much as I could manage.
Zeklo haha don't worry, I love these lore videos and you're one of the best!
Thanks! Glad to have you ^^
I love your lore videos, The Fuelweaver one absolutely amazed me.
what if the rock lobsters are decents of the ancients
just an average jo what if rock lobsters are actually stone crabs
Crab people XD
That a _descent_ theory.
Death to butter sauce
Mabey... After all the lobsters ARE lazy and the dude on the left at 4:35 looks like he just woke up
I think that the murals are a prophecy of what was to happen.
The queen could resemble Charlie because of her white energy/white torch. Charlie pulls an unnamed white energy out of the activated Gateway after Wickerbottom activates the Gateway with the Ancient Key.
The king could resemble Wilson after he replaces Maxwell on the Nightmare Throne. When the queen protects the king with her white energy and the king is curled up in the corner in the mural, that could resemble Charlie both protecting Wilson from a fate worse than death, and banishing him back into the Don’t Starve world and taking the throne for herself.
winter is coming
I think the that the murals tell a story of a power struggle between the king and queen of the ancients and the use of nightmare fuel. In the first mural the ancients are depicted carrying out hard manual labor to gather resources. Carrying them from the surface world to the caves by carts. Also notice how the ancients use crude tools such as a pic ax and use what seem to be campfires for warmth suggested by the image in top right corner of the first mural. Simply put their way of life was hard. This changed once they discovered the ancient gateway. Suggesting that the gateway was not created by the ancients but by "them" possibly. On the left side you can see the ancients digging downward and possibly uncovering the gateway. Notice the balance of white (moon energy possibly) and black (shadow energy) in the gateway. What the caves at the bottom of the mural represents is putting the old life ( hunting and gathering) beneath them and this new energy source is the solution to all their problems. However in the next mural you notice the king and queen (I believe the 2 figures centered in the mural are such or at least some sort of leaders) are no longer equal. The king (the figure with the scepter) seems to be using shadow energy to solve all the people problems. There are no crude tools being used in the mural. The remaining miners are show discarding their tools in the top corners of the mural and the king is shown using his scepter to create resources. He summons the ancient fuel weaver for protection possibly. He is able to animate clockwork and gather resources using his scepter. No longer to the ancients have to scour the surface to find resources (the portal is also changed quite a bit. Possibly to increase shadow energy production and decease white energy or moon energy production). And the people ravel the king for this but shun the queen for not contributing the same power. But this leads to their down fall. A imbalance of power between the 2 energy's. The white and black energy. Its shown in game as well shadow energy has the power to create armor and summon workers to do all manual labor where moon energy or whatever it may be in not nearly as powerful. And so the people consume the shadow energy to a excess and don't balance their city with the yang of shadow energy. The people worshiping the king are shown with black circles in their chest showing the shadows have started to consume them and their life. The 3rd mural shown us the start of the apocalypse for the ancients. As no more white energy is produced the shadows consume all. Those who used it the most were turned into statues and shadow monsters. Those who did not use shadow energy were killed by the shadow monsters. In the last fleeting moments the queen pushes back at the shadows to save her husband resulting in her death and saving him. You can see white energy shooting through the tendril the connects with her. This may be the way the portal is left broken as you can see the portal staring to crack as the energy shoot into the gateway and the ruins fall quiet. The king heartbroken and left with nothing he sits alone on his throne covering his eyes to show his sorrow. The followers that once worshiped him lay dead before him and shadows are all that remain. This is how the nightmare throne was created. The shadows consumed him and forced him to be their leader and their slave. He was left in the throne for a 1000 lifetimes to carve the murals as he sat. Who else could carve them after the apocalypse? None of the ancients remain. Please look at this btw I wrote a novel for all you.
I know I'm late to this video but fairly new to the game. Thank you. You wrote everything beautifully and since English is not my first language i appreciate the simple explanation. Thank you so much. Sending you love.
@@ghazaleslamkhah8528 This is also really late but appreciate the response. Glad I could help you out
This interpretation is extremely plausible and correlates with a lot I've thought about myself. Thanks for sharing your interpretation!
When the cane-wielder is on the throne, looks like he's covering his eyes. A symbol of denial or mourning, realising what they have done, and now it's too late to change anything, they cannot face the wicked world they have woven
In the mural where the Staff Wielder is over the Torch Wielder, we can see the Torch Wielder's eyelids being a reddish color. In the mural where the Torch Wielder is protecting the Staff Wielder, the Staff Wielder's eyes are pitch black. This implies that both of them were corrupted by the Nightmare Fuel, with the Staff Wielder covering their eyes with a mix of embarrassment and sorrow in the next mural. That's how I interpret it, at least.
The king on throne just cries realising he killed his civilisation consumed by shadows
Bit late to the party but good video man. Really interesting stuff. Looking forward to seeing more content from you
what if the fuel weaver is the cane wielder and he was dying but tranzfered his soul into the bones turning himself into the fuel weaver and the torch wielder protected him but didnt know he was going to do that and thats why the torch wielder is sad on the throne and protecting people from chaos but then maxwell comes and then he realeses the torch wielder and gets on the chair. then he was trapped there for a long time and so he called other guys so hell be released. so chaos came and the cane wielder aka the fuel weaver tries to stop them but couldnt. he knew chaos came and tried to stop them and when he died he knew he couldnt save the other people from charlie
I also believe in the possibility that the Fuel Weaver is the Cane Wielder. Though one thing to note is the Cane Wielder is the one on the throne at the end, not the torch wielder. They would've had to have passed on later.
I know this comment is a little late, but there are blue birds in the game--in winter, the redbirds are replaced by blue snowbirds, and with the recent seafaring updates, we have the (very blue) malbatross.
1:39 its the nightmare cycle! the spikes are terrorbeak mouths
Now i know where the sea horrors come from
Zek, was that Winter is coming Maxwell?
Asparagus You know it ;)
I wish they make a dlc revolving around this
12:10
Maybe he survived as Max
And maybe he will become a new character?
i have a huge mind blowing theory
What is it
@@merchant3899 i dont remember. I used to be the friends with the channel owner and i talked to him in voice chat.
In the last images of the hieroglyphs or whatever there is some sort of shell with spikes next to the torch wielder, Im not quite sure what this is but id think it would be something to look into as it appears twice, first on the third page next to the torch wielder and once on the fourth page beside the portal near some shadows.
And perhaps the name Metheus is the name of the cane wielder? Though when looking up Metheus I could only find things about Prometheus but I did find something that spoke of Metheus being the process of creating man before adding the skin, so maybe Metheus is summoning the Fuelweaver as its a skeleton? Not sure but I think that Metheus is the name of the "king" of the ancients and I saw a theory talking about the fuelweaver and Metheus being connected as master and beast so that connection could match up as the Fuelweaver says Metheus which would originally lead us to this puzzle.
And I agree with the whole charlie thing towards the end, maybe there is another throne and the last image depicts Charlie's new reign over the torch wielder.
New content confirmed for June 1rst? =D
maybe the cane had the power to controll the shadow to make life easier and he lost control for misuse of the fuel. also on third mural it seem the torch wielder protected the the staff wielder and gave his life. also maybe the ancients hated the sunlight and thats why they used the shadows in the 2nd mural to havest for them and etc.
The shell like creatures could possibly be slurtles, as they are the only creature I can think of that has a shell. This is just a theory.
What if the torchbearer made all of the murals? I don't know :P. They seem to appear a lot, and they always seem to be fighting off the shadows, and the final mural is his broken mask, symbolizing his failure to fend himself from the shadows. The weird things surrounding it look like arms, so maybe since hes somewhat of an insect he's holding it with his 6 hands, looking down in the first person?
maybe the world is so strange not because of interdimensontsinal weirdness, but because of the darkness?
My theory: Maxwell doesn't believe the moon exists, that's why he uses quotes.
ASMR? :c
Freddo Films Huh?
lol
o-o
Wait a minute you see the spikes on there back and if your sanity goes down enough one shadow creature has those spikes in that shape and if you think,when they died
Most of them probably didn't become ghost and became the shadow creatures
you should have a glass of water while recording.
if shadow's are coming from the staff then it would make sence that the ancient cane emits shadows when held
5:50 oh! Would that be the eye of the storm or whatever from the new trailers from Klei?
Good catch-since we know they worshipped the Moon previously it's possible the Lunar Storms ended up happening and they were drove into the underground. Very possible!
look at the mask at the end it has round eyes not half eyes so the one sitting in the throne is torch wielder
Ok, ok, hear me out: When he shows the unknown cycle, there is a symbol found above the white/yellow circle off to the left side. This same symbol is in the minecraft enchantment table. This means that the gateway is an end portal. Ender dragon update confirmed EZ GAME Kappa
also, many of maxwells quotes (im pretty sure its maxwell) refers to a substance as the fuel. I think the staff unlocked the fuel, and began to gain power
please stop.
.:JaKes:. No, I will be correct trust me
no you wont, i hate minecraft and i hate you
Dungeoner23 Just...no. Thats the most cringiest thing ive seen today. Please just no.
The 'light' or 'white fire' looks like to fire that enters the meat effigy when first built in don't starve together
Pig_nuggets o-o woah. I need to check that out.
Zeklo And one more thing, maxwell in adventure he changes look and at he end he looks like the odd skeleton or at least he has a similar skeleton to the odd skeleton maybe because of the throne changing him
I think Don't Starve next game should be Bye Bye Sanity or Hello Insanity
The ancient used to not have drugs as illegal... So they wete drawing a lot of whst they saw in other dimensions.
WAIT!! What if you combined the panels!
Waitwaitwaitwaitait, maybe there are acient's decendense, rock lobsters!!!!
theres also a dead centapedle (time) 9:37
12:12 Bruuuuuuh, you didn't say "A game theory", ok im out..........
its like hollow knight lore, but different.
you didnt translate the runes...
# thexus Most of the runes here are gibberish.
Zeklo but there's one big picture which has only translatable runes, maybe 30-40, you should make a video about it, and there're patches of runes in the other pictures
# thexus I'll look into it.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IQ8pFhdRU1EQaisSea_-ckvhYq1ryI_ZJ2hcsxyX6DA/edit#gid=0 this will help
So I am late as fuck but who cares? After watching this video and founding out I had a tragic torch skin to get a realized something on the cartoon puzzle we have to go trough, on the last panels where the old portal that Maxwell and Wilson build is being destroyed theres something to be noticed, on the old portal we see shadows lixe Maxwell kinda manipulate and plays with, but the shadow thats destroying the portal has THORNS on it and then the floral portal has the shadows with thorns isntead of the usual. Also many many runes that can be seen in this can probably be translated with the information given on metheus puzzle to get the ancient cane and ancient king chest! Things are getting closer to and end, maybe the white we see is for the moon stuff
Oh dang, good catch with the thorns! Better late than never with a detail like that.
you see the video clicking on the portal?
Indeed!
maybe Charlie is on the game but we can't found she yet
And when you kill the Fuelweaver he drop a rose and on video the charlie pick her flower, maybe when the ruins is breaking down she appear, like a easter egg
Mr. Late Bloomer? Is that you?
Spaartan dat guy on Steam That's my title on the forums. Yeppers.
Okay, just making sure you noticed that I like this theory. I think that if the ancient on the "throne" was before Maxwell, there must have been one more king before Maxwell, some time for the dust to settle. Or, Maxwell met him, freed him, and watched him survive the old world and right the wrongs he has committed, eventually getting to the key, and keeping it safe from use, for so long until he becomes "changed" by the fuel and into Ancient Guardian. TORCHY IS DEAD PEOPLE that is why its a "Tragic" Torch and by the description it makes you sad when you look at it for a while, for the owner died a sad way too.
Yeah the idea that the Staff Wielder may have become the Ancient Guardian is what sparked the idea for that particular theory.
Regarding the Fuelweaver, I believe one of the two to be it. In mind not body. So for this particular theory that could result in the Torch Wielder being them.
Now, there are certain lines that support and don't support it. With the Shadow Atrium being described as sorrowful this could fit the Staff Wielder, but with it being described as having been betrayed this could fit the Torch Wielder. The Fuelweaver also states "I was wrong," which seems to lean towards the Staff Wielder who initiated the use of nightmare fuel.
The puzzle page being named Metheus, and the last ancient we see alive being the Staff Wielder. It almost seems to suggest that they are Metheus. Meaning when the Fuelweaver says their name that would most likely mean they are the Torch Wielder.
Honestly I can see it going either way, but for the sake of this particular theory I have to go with the Ancient Guardian being the Staff Wielder changed from nightmare fuel, and the Ancient Fuelweaver being the Torch Wielder's mind in a different body.
Zeklo it makes sense for the torch wielder to be the fuelweaver. The tragic torch's smoke sometimes releases the shapes of night hands, terrorbeaks, and crawling horrors, and if you look at the shadow thurible, which I believe the fuelweaver to be trapped in after he's defeated (almost like a genie in a bottle), the thurible also releases the shape of various nightmares before fading away. The ancient cane's material also looks similar to the material of the ancient key, which is dropped by the guardian. However, one major flaw in this theory is that Maxwell seems to have known the guardian before he was changed into a Minotaur, and even regards him as a friend. If all the ancients were dead when Maxwell arrived, then there's no way he could have known the guardian before the transformation. This almost seems like a plot hole of sorts, and maybe the fuelweaver is both the torch holder and cane holder, but split in mind and body. Idk just some connections I made from watching this.
Ah, but that's where this other theory comes in! If the Staff Wielder does become the Ancient Guardian, and was the first to be on the throne, potentially the one Maxwell took the throne from. That would mean Maxwell could have met them! As far as the quote, perhaps the very reason it was changed was due to the fact that Maxwell *did* encounter one. Who knows!
Thulecite = ancient flesh according to new information?
Random Guy *Carapace
bones=fulewever
Those are protoss
_You must construct additional [nightmare] pylons._
Lobsters
İ think its ruins cycle Like nightmare cycle
Crupted
R f g
first