BUDGET Power? Speedmaster Cylinder Head Review! Are They Worth It?
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- čas přidán 6. 05. 2022
- After many many videos we did on these heads, we are at a point to share our final (hopefully) assessment. These heads are for the 521” big block Ford going in the 1968 Thunderbird for the #nonamenationals
It’s a yes and a no answer.. guess you’ll have to watch to find out! Enjoy !!
#nonamenationals #2hacksgarage #sendit #builtnotbought #speedmaster #cylinderhead #valves #portingpolish #fordthunderbird #ford #projectcars #projectcar #budgetbuild #review #hotrod #fullthrottle #china #supplychain #effort #edelbrock #airflow #intakemanifold #headgasket #budgetbuild #procomp #cheap #diy #howto #loveitorhateit @BareRoseGarage - Zábava
Wow you really went through every thing which is a great service to anyone looking to use these heads and I don't think it's stops at Ford applications I bet their other heads need to be bought bare. And I never get tired of your videos but I'm a motorhead!
Thanks brother!! Just wait to you see my next engine build 😎
It’s not Ford 👀
Great video on the Speedmaster heads. A lot to think about when choosing a head for a project.
100% true. Especially when “budget” oriented
Totally GREAT series from start to finish man & TOTAL hats off to you for doing the majority of the work yourself even though you have access to a racing legend (Jimmy) right there to do it for you! I TOTALLY admit that I have access to 2 here where I live as well (they both asked me to NOT mention them out right because they have too much to do) but when I get my set in, I'm going to drop them off, and say "have at it man".
One thing to mention in that though.... Alden & Bill both said to buy all of them "Bare". They run into this same stuff with Dart, Edelbrock, AFR, etc etc etc. just not to this degree. And like Bill said, if I have to go into them, it's not much different in price.
Both of them said these Speedmaster heads are better than DOVE-C's but NO WHERE NEAR a set of Darts (with the BBC exhaust) when they are done..... you get what you pay for in the end, after you've forked out the money to make any of them work.
And to top off this novel comment, they both told be what Uncle Tony has said for decades.... "Purity of Purpose". If the car you are building is a Saturday Night Cruiser that you take to the strip a couple times a year just to have fun with. Do Not Waist Your Money On Stuff That Is Track Dedicated! If you want to build a race car, build a race car. If you want to build a driver, slap the Speedmaster on it to put the big money to a Race Car.
Again.... totally great series Jeff! This is the stuff that's going to send you to the moon and back brother!
Thanks barerose!!! Honestly you were the inspiration behind going this indepth, really appreciate the feedback and advice!
Great review Jive Hive Jeff sorry you got burned brother on those other valves and springs but you know now what to look for.
Thanks brother!!!! Yep, definitely not ready out of the box as advertised
Great review Jeff.
You elevated the quality of your heads by doing your work to the best of your ability.
And, you're American!
We all can take a step back and look into the future by, Planning, preparation while taking into consideration budget and how to get the most bang for our buck.
I think your heads look very nice.
Light years ahead of what they were.
And you personalized them by putting your own slant on them.
Valves, springs, retainer and locks.
I need to say this, there have been thousands of heads ported and polished that were never on a flow bench.
Heads that won championship races.
Also these heads are light years better than anything Ford ever made back in the day.
As far as performance goes.
You can run a point higher on compression and still run pump gas.
A superior exhaust port, which always hurt the original heads.
So over all I think you have a winner.
I do however would agree they needed a chamber job.
But as you said you can always do that later as you said.
You should be proud of the work you did and the other fella that helped you also.
Great content.
Thank you, Ed.
That’s Ed! I really appreciate the positive feedback!!! Oh yes… these chambers are a mess!!! If I had more time, I’d be doing them, but I do know the off-season will give me all the time I need. Fingers crossed, maybe one day people will see how much we need manufacturing to return to America, all of us in the hot rod game work hard, and every dollar spent should count.
Thanks for sharing.
You are welcome
Thanks for video yea i been thing of heads as i got to build a bi block ford asap 5 or 6 speed fer my 1977 f350 i manual trans is a must that for sure
Sounds like a fun project!
that porting you did looks great
Thank you!!! Many hours. Fingers crossed it pays off!
Great video just ordered a pair
Sweet man!!! Did you order them bare?
thank you for making this video I don;t think these are for me so thanks for saving me some money
Not a problem, glad I could help
Great video brother
Thanks man!
Like the video good content ...I could use the valves to make seat protectors for when I. Doing chamber work I
Right on! Thank you!
Thanks for pouring your soul out to us Big Block Ford guys. You did a great job explaining the good and bad about these heads. I've been tinkering with engines for nearly 50 years and have run a 460 in my jet boat 🚤 for 33 years. As a veteran of racing the SoCal raceways for years , I've seen the good bad and ugly.
From what I've seen on the video, I say you did a hell of a job cleaning the heads up and fixed everything I've heard what's wrong with them. There's much knowledge in the " 460 Forum" . Best of luck to you . That 521 is gonna run!
Thank you!!! This is my first ford build, i have learned a lot and I have gained much appreciation for the ford 385 series engines. Torque monsters!
@@2HacksGarage indeed they are and built to last. The stock crankshaft is good up to 750 horsepower and the stock block is good for 1200-1300 horsepower from what I've seen on dynos.
@@NobilityandLoyalty they definitely overbuilt them! I was trying to find a four bolt super cobra jet block, but that wasn’t in the budget
@@2HacksGarage Yep, they are out of sight to purchase now. They're up there or above the Ford Performance 4 bolt block in some areas. Might as well buy the FP 4 bolt that's new. The factory CJ and SCJ heads are also now a small fortune. The DOVE 🕊 heads have gone up in price as well.
@@2HacksGarage Did you have any clearance issues with the crankshaft?
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I’ll take those valves Jeff
I have an idea!!
Email me, 2HacksGarage at gmail
I’m glad I watched this video imma get them bare instead of assembled
good choice! The castings are good, but it is a good idea to upgrade everything else
@@2HacksGarage what length of valves did you use
Well done sir! The perseverance to completion is the big cost that you can't put a dollar value on. If you could, you would be able to retire!
Thanks brother!!! Man, I’d love to do this stuff for a living!
@@2HacksGarage Well, there are guys who do you know. You have all the talent to make the videos and the personal commitment and drive to see things to their conclusion and (too many and's?) the analytical grasp of the process you're in. Do it damn it!
Confirmed everything I have heard about buying them bare. I feel like someone who is a machinist or with a ton of experience could buy these and make them work. If someone like me buys them and has to pay someone to sort them out, it would end up costing more money than just buying a set of quality heads.
Agreed 1000%!!
I have a set of the Procomps/Speedmaster 210cc aluminum heads from 2010 on my 351-W. I purchased the heads bare and redid the valve job and cleaned them up. Todays casting are far more superior compared to the set that I have. I just had to buy a set of these heads to check them out. I did all the work myself so I don’t have the extra expense of having a machine shop reworking them for me. Take my advice and save your money and purchase Dart, AFR , Trickflow, and Brodix. AFR BBF cylinder heads make insane HP for the money.
Good thing is, my machinist and I work together so I didn’t have to spend that money. Just a lot of time correcting them and the cost for valves, springs, etc… next time I’m going Kaase!
So what are you try to get out of them would they work for a say 400 hp engine that’s not going to be raced ?
@roberthirshfield3571 they would easily support that.
@@roberthirshfield3571 Honestly, today’s Speedmaster heads are really decent for the money. I bought mine back in 2010 and the castings were Pro Comps and pretty crappy. I did a mild port job, mainly focusing on the short turn radius, combustion chamber, and bowls. I gasket matched the heads to the Victor Jr intake. I’m running low 10’s on a 100 shot of nitrous with a mechanical flat tappet camshaft. Car weighs 2900 with me in it. I’m easily making 450-475 hp. Maybe more. I really don’t know! I thought about buying another set of bare Speedmaster 210cc SBF cylinder heads. Also check out Skip White Performance. Their cylinder heads are pretty decent for the money.
I have the speedmaster/procomp iron heads on the 351W in the 68 Fairlane I'm bringing to NNN. Got them bare, exhaust seats were sized for wrong valves, replaced valve guides and did a valve job. Valves, keepers, retainers and springs were added in by us. Same story decent casting but not totally as advertised.
100% true on the advertisement of those heads. How do you like them overall from a performance perspective?
@@2HacksGarage i will let you know once I drive the car. They were advertised with 1.60 exhaust but had a 1.46 exhaust in reality.
@@stephenhotzjustdriveit yep. Everything is way way off on these heads
Greatly appreciate this video. Trying to figure out what budget route I'm going but I'm also pressed for time. Was trying to find dove heads as I have d8 heads (not very common I guess) and bump the compression but almost considering going with D3 heads and run a pop up piston as my lower end needs to be rebuilt and id rather spend the money on a stronger lower.
What kind of lower are you thinking? I went with an Eagle rotating assembly, 521”
@@2HacksGarage didn't expect a quick response. I was looking at a scat rotating assembly pending the condition of my crank. I have considered doing a 514ci as I don't want to go crazy. This is going in my winter daily (78 f150). However I do off-road recovery with it but also tow with it. I'm shooting for above 400hp. More concerned with torque. Don't want to break the truck all the time but it needs more get up than the 400 it had. Considered a 280h comp cam due to the 2k-6k rpm range and I have a weiand stealth intake. MSD ignition and haven't decided if I'm using the shorty l&l headers or if I'm going to buy fenderwell exit long tubes. Just don't want it to be too high rpm. Sorry for the novel. Haha.
@@Theupstateidiots sounds like you have a good plan! Man you will make a ton of torque with a 514, would be a stump puller
@@2HacksGarage im torn with decisions due to budget. But I'm almost hoping it needs to be bored so I can justify the stroker kit. Haha. 😂 Hopefully I can get it going soon. Definitely following as I hope to see your tbird go! After this is fixed I'll either start back up on restoring my 69 mustang or start rebuilding a 5.4 for my 2003 lightning. (uncle Rodney came to visit and opened a window in the block)
@@Theupstateidiots I understand the budget aspect, things add up fast!
Those valvesprings would be good for breaking in a flat tappet cam. Then throw them away.
Yep! That’s about it!
I just wonder what the cost difference would be between getting them complete and buying different springs and retainers vs. Buying them bare, and paying a machinist to do the valve job, plus buying valves, springs, keepers and retainers, plus paying the machinist, or someone to do the porting. If one doesn't do the porting work themselves?
Very good question!! I would prefer to buy bare, so my own work, and get the valves, springs, etc. that fit my build. I’d say the price comparison would be close to the same
Gasket matching is not a good way to get the ports to match. The better way is to attach the intake and make the two match without opening up the port. The gasket makers just have to have a hole big enough to not be in the port.
Explains a lot of the problems that I had with my SM 351w heads I fought the gold rockers that came with sliding off the guides. It wasn’t until I switched to a different brand of guides and PRW rockers that the problem was solved. Thanks, but where was this video a year ago lol?
Well glad you fixed it!!! Ugh, I wish this was a year ago, my car would be done and I would be frying tires!
Hey where did you get the new guides?
@nicnic7803 Howard’s
If I can give you any advice I have seen alot of exhaust bolt holes stripped pretty easy any set I seen or touch I installed helicoil from the start plus it's stronger than any threat cut in any aluminum with a helicoil in it
That’s a very good tip!
I milled my heads down to 80cc chambers , hoping to get over 9:1 compression, I really wish I found a 429 instead or a early 460 ,
How does it run?
@@2HacksGarageI’m still working on hoping to have the truck running buy September
Yessir thank you! Who did you contact for the new springs?
I calle Howard’s cams, that’s the manufacturer of my cam and they hooked me up 🏁
@@2HacksGarage You are the man!! I have more questions but Im just subbing and re watching your video until I have it memorized! Clay Smith cups, gonna look them up too!
@@FootageFactory No problem! I can also be reached at 2HacksGarage at gmail
Would you happen to still have them valves and springs or some 2” valve set laying around
No, these got sent back, they are bad…
What are the flow numbers for these out of the box? That’s really the only thing holding me up from buying a bare set. Can’t seem to find any information on the flow
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 65.5 50.0
.200 107.0 85.0
.300 162.0 122.0
.400 208.0 145.0
.500 245.0 160.0
.600 267.0 167.0
.700 295.0 175.0
Have anyone ever had an issue with valve thickness inconsistency? Say a valve is.040 thicker than the rest . A thicker valve would add compression in that port due to making a tighter combustion chamber. Is this a thing? I know that it would a pretty big difference in thickness to raise or lower compression.
We didn’t, we ended up using Ferrara 5000 valves
How was the core shift in the castings
The castings were great, everything else.. not so much.
Hey Man,. What brand name are those Black Wrenches hanging on your peg board?
those are crescent
@@2HacksGarage ok, thanks for replying,. They look cool, I'm gonna look into them.
Thank you..
Ps. I'm not a subscriber yet,. But looking forward to your channel .
@@hectorortega9131 I have many different brands but for some reason I really like these. Thank you for watching!
lol they never put part 2 in the description but i found it ahh
🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Will speed master heads be acceptable in replacement of original iron heads on a very mild build? Thanks
Yes, but I would but them bare and get hood valves and springs.
Thanks are 175cc intake runners to large for a mild 306 don't remember the cam specs lot alot of the charts say it should be around 160cc on the intake runners will that much really hinder lower rpm performance
Shops gonna check the springs out.
@rossgirdeen3247 which we did and replaced them
He said there good castings the springs and valves need to be replaced he said next time buy them bare.
I just ordered a pair and have a new cam shaft for my 302 I need to call and get valve springs, where do I get keepers? Same place?
I have 1.6 rockers and a girdle from a friend
When you call about your springs, they should offer you a spring kit with keepers and retailers. I went with Howard’s
@@2HacksGarage my cam is a comp I’ll probably be calling them.
@@CharliesMustangShop what heads are you going with
@@2HacksGarage I got a set of speed master 190cc PN 746-PCE435.1022
If you think i could do better I will hold off.. I really wanted AFR but got that speed master kit for 872$ it’s been sitting on a buddies shelf
The castings are great. New springs, retainers, and keepers should be done though. I also ungraded yo clay smith valve spring cups and Ferrara valves.
Here’s my question how much would a shop charge to do the work for me? I’ve got a suburban I want to make max low end torque. It’s a overland truck. I’m debating on should I just get some vortec heads done up for me or go aluminum. Whatever I do it needs to be reliable.
What’s all been done with the engine?
@@2HacksGarage she’s bone stock 200k miles. Believe it or not I think new valve seals and a reseal and chuck won’t use no oil at all between oil changes. At the moment he uses a qt every 3k ish miles. It’s a 90’ TBI. I’ve thought about going Sniper but I’ve also thought about having the TBI ported and regulator turned up some with a better cam and head/compression. I intend to leave the bottom end alone for now. It’s not running bad besides a stumble at idle. It could just be a spark plug who knows. TBI’s tend to have that issue.
@@kylewest100 I think a set of 305 Vortec heads and a cam would do wonders. A good dual plane and sniper would too
@@2HacksGarage I’m wanting more low end torque because it’s getting 37’s and a 6 inch lift this fall.
@@kylewest100 cam, intake, sniper would be great for you
So basically by the time and money you should've just bought the Edelbrock or Trick flo or AFRs
Really depends on your budget. The castings aren’t bad at all. If you have the money, buy better, just make sure the valve springs match your cam specs when it comes to open and closed pressure.
Do they perform good on the street
Yes they do
So after all the time and extra money, should of just bought cnc ported afr or trick flow heads
not necessarily, I learned a lot and that is priceless
Can u get the springs and stuff u don't want
You can buy them bare
For the price of these, I am eyeballing a pair of afr 270s...
Honestly, if I wasn’t on a time crunch, I would have saved for a set of Kaase. I had to put a lot of work into these just go make them work “right”.
Hey man, you want a scrap one someone ported into a water jacket on?
Would love to have one!
@@2HacksGarage let me know where to send it, it’s yours
@@jmetcalf6350 email me at 2HacksGarage at gmail, thank you!
@@2HacksGarage did you get an email?
Lemonade! Use the valves and spring to create a bench top head stand. Instead of a plastic crate! The valves are already bent so no loss right, and the springs will cushion them.
That’s probably doable. God knows I won’t put these in any heads!
Yo I'll take the valves..
Hit me up, 2HacksGarage at g mail
Unfortunately ive came across some of these same issues with high quality high cost American made products. Its just a sign of the times Unfortunately.
I’ve ran across that too recently. Things need to change or this hobby is in trouble
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🤘🏻🤜🤛🤘🏻🇺🇸
Did you actually use the speedmaster exhaust valves? They take more abuse than the intake valves, I wish you luck, but I wouldn't never use any valve train from them. It's all junk.
No. All I used was the castings, which were heavily ported. I used Ferrara valves, Howard’s springs and retainers, clay smith cups and springs, and scorpion rockers
@@2HacksGarage good, I thought I heard you say you used them. Good move getting that junk out of the heads.
My thoughts on imported vs domestic products..... I think it doesn't matter were it comes from, if you buy on the cheap end, u find u get cheaply made stuff. Meaning u knowing bought a cheap/generic product, therefore u got a cheap/generic product. Place of mfg don't matter. I believe you can buy a high end brand name product & it can be made in China. However "American made" sells. But u & I both know you can buy a totally American product with bold eagles screaming all around & find its a cheaply made & poor designed product. But u can find very well made products from here as well. One thing I gota point out as a machinists, all the good operating cnc machines are Japanese. So even our high quality USA made parts are usually machined with foreign made equipment. We all need each other in the end.
so true! thar being said, I'd love to see more stuff made in the states
Typical Speedmaster chinesium quality. I would say they're not even worth buying bare. At least not new. I scored a set of SB mopar 340 heads for $400. They were used and assembled. Tore them down and sent off to the machine shop. New valve guides, 5 angle valve job, deck squared, chamber edges chamfered. Rebuilt the heads with milidon valves, howards springs/retainers/seals. Also port matched the exhaust. For what I have in to them I almost could have bought TrickFlow's. That being said I have a set of TrickFlow's and these built Speedmaster's perform just a tad better. If you can get them for dirt cheap and put the work in to sorting them out they run great. Definitely do not buy them new.
12.45 mins in, you buy a Brodix, Kasse, Trickflow the ports asd cast are always a little smaller than a felpro gasket.. i would not trust chinese speedmaster valves or springs... So Just Buy Bare Heads, buy good valves, spring , retainers etc.. get a proper 5 angle seat job, a little bit of porting, they will be a good street head...
watch my final review, we changed everything on these heads and ported them. Also, at the time, the heads you mentioned were not in my budget. Have to work with what you have and what you can afford.
@@2HacksGarage I wasn't telling to buy other heads. my point was whatever head you get, you will have to port match it to a gasket... so the speedmaster is just like other heads..
What length pushrods did you use?
8.775 and 8.550, Howard’s 3/8”