What's the Fastest Hub? (DT Swiss VS. Chris King VS…)
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2024
- Creative Carbon Wheels: creativecarbonwheels.com/
Aaron Dobbs: www.bs16bicyclesolutions.com.au/
Channel Subscription: bit.ly/2NViYKI
In this video we will ve comparing four big name hubs - Chris King, DT Swiss, Extralite, White Industries - on the exact same 45mm carbon wheel from Creative Carbon wheels. We'll be getting a mechanics point of view, testing the hubs up a climb and a descent, finishing off with my general thoughts on each hub after riding on them for six months.
Speed tests: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
#Carbon #wheel #hub
HUBS discussed:
White Ind: www.whiteind.com/product/cld-...
DT Swiss: www.dtswiss.com/en/components...
Chris King: chrisking.com/collections/hub...
Extralite: extralite.com/Products/CyberR... - Sport
An impressive amount of work. Nice job 👍🏻.
Awesome video! I’d love to see an ONYX hub in your comparison. Zero noise, zero drag, w/ instant engagement… Bing, Bang, BOOOM!!!
gotta love the enthusiasm😁👍
Nicely done mat. DT is one of those 'Less boutique" seeming hubs that is so class and good because of simple design and immaculate engineering. CK have always been a dream hub, until you own them and have to drop them in a shop for some love, whereas the others are far more user friendly.
I can only imagine the effort you put into making these videos. Really nice content!
DT Swiss has always been my favorite. Easy to maintain.
Nice work Cam! DT Swiss simplicity and reliability all the way 👍🏻
What an effort. Gonna subs for this
Subscribed after so many wathing your videos. What a dedicated people to make one videos. Keep up the good works
Thanks for your hard work!
It might be a bit of work, but since you have the wheels built up - it’d be mad to send them to Bicycle Rolling Resistance to put through his test rig to remove any difference from wind/etc!
Chris King all day, every day. A work of art and sustainable as they support them forever. Not the lightest but best craftsmanship by far.
Forever? I have 2 hubsets, from around 2009-2010. A lot of the parts of I need for those hubs are no longer in production (ISO Singlespeed axles and conversions, Campy Freehubs for the R45). That was the reason I bought CK in the first place. Next hubset will be WI for me, not CK.
@@thomaslowry7813single speed automatically disqualifies you from meaningful discussion 😅
@@petersouthernboy6327 owning a Chris King singlespeed mtb hub disqualifies me from having an opinion on CK?
they dont make parts for very long, from experience its 2-3 years after the upgraded part comes out. I have 2 sets of hubs (iso gen 1) from 2008-2010 and they dont have parts and wont make any, i have 3 headsets 1-1/8 straight steerer. So now all my CK parts are good for the shelf or landfill because of the ever changing bike standards and CK's lack of support with parts. a lot of us could still use the old iso hubs for road and gravel if we can get axle conversions...
I'm using HED Ardennes SL wheels on my Pinarello. Both bike and wheels are about 12 years old.The wheels perform as new. The Hubs are marked HED. Incidentally, I bought my first serious road frame from Steve Hed when he was first starting.
Thanks for the hard work pulling this together! Perhaps a standard cup and cone hub like a dura ace as a benchmark. Be interesting to see the difference besides weight. The racers I rode with switched out to oil lubrication on race day, and the difference was pretty dramatic. We recently cleaned out the bearings on my sons skateboard and lubed with Prolink. The difference was dramatic. Think Hambini talked about the lub as being a big factor as well. Might be an interesting topic, same wheel and test with various lubs to see the difference. Thanks again!
the dura ace would likely win .....one small problem there
@gen-X-trader lol..I think so!
If only I didn't sell those campy high flange tipo hubs!
Also a "cheap" DT 370...
I guess you could only see a difference in controlled lab conditions.
Of course grease vs oil should make a difference!
Brilliant vid cam!
A hub I have ridden for 5 years (rim brake) is the Tune. I have 240s and Chris King as well.
The Tune really sit in between these two from my experience. They are actually my favorite
Buddy of mine sadly just had his MiG Skyline hub disintegrate on a decent in the alps: one of the rings the spokes are laced onto was no longer held in place and made all the spokes form one side shift around uncontrollably
I've been killing 2 sets of CLD hubs, bad weather, etc, and they are solid hubs. And, since I have 2 sets of them built up to different rims, when I swap from bike to bike, I have to do zero touching of the calipers, the rotors do not touch or rub, so they are consistent. That's a huge plus in this day and age of road disc.
I added DT to my Newmen stock hubs, and first there was some 0.2 0.3 mm offset with the Shimano rotors. So I ordered shims to compensate, but the time they were delivered, the offset was gone - without any change to the torque/tightening of the lock ring or anything... only 2-3 changes of wheels and rides!
I love my extralite hubs. I put the MTB version on my road bike b/c more engagement & 6 bolt rotor interface.
Being in the States and requiring parts would disqualify me with Extralite
hi cam! awesome video, which one do you think best value in money but good in performance ?? thank you!!!
Hey Aaron, where can I get that vice-mounted wheel fixture that you're using?
TIA, Sparks in Daytona
I wasn't expecting there to be a difference in the speed tests. A well maintained hub is all you need to be quick.
I wonder what the pros use? Mountain biking, road racing (TT Vs climbers)?
Should have added cheaper hubs eg 370 to see if any difference. Probably not much.
Wow, so much work went into this video. I do hope all the brands helped out with products, as this was just a fantastically informative video!
sweet and simple, great that you included data ut didn't linger on it. creative wheels new one for me.
I'm with you. Just give me long life bearings, ease of maintenance, standard parts, and some decent engagement.
Nice job !!!!
I came to love DT Swiss more and more... If they'd had colour options I would never think which hubs are right for me... Not that I'd think long about it... Especially since for me the bombproof budget friendly versions (350 currently going strong) are sufficient
Timing is everything- if you are a cyclist that just bring your bike to lbs for maintenance then you can pick any hubs you like. But if you are a cyclist who is a diy guy then you pick the DT Swiss, excellent product and so easy to service.
Even the cheapest but still quality hubs (Think low end cup and cone Shimano) are fast enough that you will not be able to measure a difference between them and the best of the best, that's how good a bearing system can be.
You can keep your ratchet drive, they are essentially one pawl hubs that rely one a linear sliding mechanism. Yes, 52 teeth but if one misses because of lack of frequent servicing, dirt ingress or the like, all the teeth miss the engagement and pain will ensue. I've seen two mates break collarbones over the years due to this. ( poor weather mountain biking)
It takes minutes to clean and grease the drive rings. And if you need more robust engagement use a 36T drive ring.
Its still a single pawl system with more maintanence and no benefit. Just avoid them is probably best @@gweflj
I built a new commuter bike and wanted some nice wheels, and ended up with a carbon wheel with DT Swiss 240 EXP hubs. But then my sweet long distance endurance bike was left with boring alu rims, so I bought a set of carbon wheels for that as well, with chris king R45 hubs. Expensive, but I'm going to be using this every day so why not.
Thanks cam awesome 👍
Thank You 🙏✌
Scott Spark has standard Syncros wheels, havent looked but guessing freehub has 2 paws as it is a pig to pick up the pedals
strangely missing are the ones i think would win the resistance test. dura ace or XTR depending on your setup. those bearings are amazing. even better would be to ride all the hubs 6 months then do the test. king hubs are made close to where i live in portland oregon. quality is above their competitors and the bearings are even made in house. however, it comes with a cost.....literally, along with being the heaviest of what is normally considered. shimano's cone and cup design in the xtr or dura ace variant specifically uses a highly polished cup and hardened bearings along with great seals those bearings are also larger what's found in a cartridge beading hub. i think the lower tier shimano hubs turn some riders off due to their so-so quality and service life but the tier1 shimano is cut from a different cloth. personally i would take xtr over any available hub on the market and i have tried many.
Strawhat cowboy dude wearing flannel character: "ah you had to slave making a whole video on this ay, had you? You couldn't have just told us you're a DTSwiss fanboy, ay? Don't appreciate fine American craftsmanship, ay, do you?" Jokes aside, great video as always and yeah, DTSwiss are simple and they work.
Any way to measure free wheeling distance? I can free wheel much longer and more often on my zipp 354’s it seems than others not on those particular wheels
That kills it for me. i and others i know alway remove rotors before packing the bike an wheels prior to flying. In my case about 5 times per year to and from events (ie 10 flights)
I’m a real fan of hope hubs
White Ind builds the hubs for Rolf. I've got 10 years on the wheels. Flawless performance.
I really like the Extralite ratchet design on their Hyberboost 3 mountain hubs. That two pawl design looks a bit silly but I would be ok with 32 poe on a road bike. Whatever is the lowest drag, i.e., not DT 54.
DT Swiss is so good, sensibly priced, qualiyty, and durable plus simple to service.
I was expecting to see the lovely 180 pull way way, ahead. Great effort and content, thank you!!
Awesome Cam - that was super! Good on you for producing such a balanced and clear vid! Keep it up
I run White Industries over CKs for several reasons, 1. Cost and 2. They sound different to CKs which are so common for high end bikes in Singapore or anywhere that i wanted mine to stand out.
Hard to imagine any advantage of 54t ratchet on road or gravel. Disdavantages are increased friction when coasting and reduced durabilty due to less surface area engaged - plus increased cost of the 'upgrade'. Noisy as heck also. My ultegra hubs are 18 and durace ace are 24 and work well. 36T should be more than adequate unless you're hucking your bike up rocky ledges.
Great video keep up the good work!
Great video, seems like a lot of bike component brand choice just doesn't matter. Next question, budget hub V's expensive?
Yes, it would have been good to throw a cheaper hub in there for sure! I thought that as soon as the tests were complete.
inb4 dry novatech hibs out performs all of these lol
@@BodieMotolol
Agreed. Would love to see the standard hub CC offer against these exxy hubs
Nice video, any thoughts on the comparison of stiffness of the hubs in a sprint? Some wheels roll amazingly well but are noodles out of the saddle.
Try putting your tubes back in
It's also dependent on the wheel-building quality and the type of spokes used.
Great work, great content thank you!
kudos to you for making such an effort to control the environment and to not half ass it like most youtube comparisons. but the difference in hub performance is so minimal I don't think any outdoor test will show it i think
I agree with this. If you actually wanted to measure the difference between hubs you're going to have to build a test jig and measure the drag on a loaded hub with a force gauge.
No one else are going this extra two miles 4 sets of wheels disassemble each hub the mechanics time alone cost on top on cost Thanks Cam and RCA your a one off Mate loved the video.
Amazing work and video
White Industries sound awesome 😎
Lots of important things not covered in reviews like that - e.g. how are these going to fair when the bicycle is outside in the rain and the snow for 8-10h on a daily basis, how difficult and/or expensive will it be to repair, are they serviceable at home... you know... real life stuff for people who don't just use a bicycle for 1-2h rides in nice weather on flat smooth roads.
Always wanted to know how hubs were constructed. Super interesting video much appreciated.
awesome effort! Cheers!
This is some ASMR shit. Surely a short of all the hub checks in a row for that one guy that will get off on it (maybe me)
DT Swiss are great for the UK.
3:51 “Larry MF Lactate” 😂
Super nice vid! Interestingly my own Extralite hub is almost silent, or very quiet compared to the other hubs I have
nice work!
😢DT for the win, ease of service is key. I ride my bikes, they get serviced annually. As far as removing my rotors, I fly a lot with my bikes, I like to remove the rotor to prevent them getting bent by accident.
High engagement is for mountain bikes.. more drag.
This is why I have a soft spot for White Industries.
Think the hub on my no name Chinese wheels is as good?
The fastest would only generally apply to the freewheeling drag. When actually pedaling it doesn't matter if it's a fixie or a 72 tooth engagement hub. The sound of a freehub sh1** me to tears. My own hub I would have no idea what brand it is but I have to say that I don't hear it and that's the way I like it.
The "fastest" test really should be roll down test of the hubs when freewheeling. The sound of the freewheel is produced by energy loss and a good hub should spin longer. It's probably only part of a watt but that part of a watt is coming out of your sweat. To test the drag in a hub do a comparison of time that they will spin for with chain on versus chain off. Comparing a chain on rear wheel with a front wheel will show the drag quite clearly.
Nice work, what about this,.. hook up a speed sensor to a trueing stand and time how long it takes for a wheel to spin down from 45kmhr to a stop, or different wheels for spoke drag, or rim brake wheel with fewer spokes vs disc with more spokes,..
That wouldn't mean much. Bearings act very differently under load than free spinning.
DT Swiss for life. Easy as regular maintenance. Spend more time riding.
I have both DT Swiss and Chris King hubs on two wheelsets. There’s something to be said for quality and engineering that endures.
Monster effort!
No big surprise high quality bearings should all have almost 0 friction so n that shouldn't make much of a difference. Same thing with there engage mechanism, it should be 0 friction when pedaling or you have a big problem. So the real difference is going to be maintenance. And the easier the actual maintenance the more likely that it will actually happen. Now i think i need to go grease my hubs 😅
The mighty Hubometer 🙌💥 I had a good laugh at 1:03 😂
Tubeless tires with tubes?
TBL would be a nasty mess for a test...
In fact it's a mess even for normal use.
Do some tests with Campagnolo..
While not many hubs come even close in terms of smooth rolling, machining and reliability, Campagnolo unfortunately has chosen the path of system wheels without too many options to build a wheel with a Campa hub and a 3rd party rim: their only hubs you can buy are with the lowest spoke count of 32, and the hubs in e.g. their top end wheels are all designed for 3G spoking. Their pawl system is not quickly engaging due to the low number of ratchets, but I wonderi f more ratchets would affect durability... If only they would make standard 24-spoke hubs...
@l.d.t.6327
Then just test a complete campagnolo wheel..
@@alwaysmorecowbellthat won't work in this test with same rims and spokes, no?
I like the DT Swiss 240. Just wish it came in colors.. Even plain black. My bike is Teal and Lime, and Red Hubs would look like ass on them.
Problem is looking at tire data each set can weight different and give different watt readings which would put your data all wrong.
Are Creative just yoeleo hoops built up into complete wheels as a private brand?
thanks for all the effort with this - interesting that the differentiator is not performance
I used to own a set of DT wheels and the quality is exactly what you'd expect of a Swiss product really good, tho I sold them cause they where too heavy for what I wanted other than that brilliant quality and a really good Q/R too
DT Swiss 180 for me mate!
i've owned 3 of those 4 hubs. from bling factor i'd choose the King's but for bomb proof reliability and ease of service it's my DT Swiss 240's all day.
You can buy aftermarket ratchet kits for the DT hubs. I bought 60t for under $30.
Hi how's the performance of those after market ones?
I'll stick to DT Swiss' own Star Ratchets.
Apparently the less ratchets, the more durability, so if you are not into climbing, or addicted to maintenance, maybe it's NOT an upgrade!
I just understand the loud hub sound. I would never want that my shimano is silent even my budget gravel bike posiden. Has generic hubs. I like the silent wheels. Onyx laced with berds and some cool aluminum wheels is my dream build for where I ride.
It's so hard to beat DT Swiss, especially when the star ratchets have been upgraded to 54t. Living with them long term is just so easy.
I find that higher engagement hubs are super useful not only on a mountain bike, but also in crit races, when you need to jump on the pedals quickly out of corners.
I’ve been watching this build like a set of waves and I am ready to rip in and get absolutely dumped. Lesss gooooo.
Would be nice to see how they did against cheaper hubs.
Agreed
So DT is best. Got it.
yeah DTswiss for me
Would have been cool to see all these wheels spinning on an indoor rig, spun up to an identical RPM then the spin time measured.
A load similar to what a cyclist would put on it would be needed too
Great video and analysis thanks Cam (& Aaron). For me, it’s the ARC 1100 DT SWISS 180’s 😉🚵♂️🚴♂️
Tooling needed makes me think I would need hub specific tools. Reality is standard tools, no big deal
💥💯AWESOME REVIEW 💯💥
for ebike : spank hex j bend Electric plus 👍
nothing beats the sound of dt swiss
Have seen Cam's videos for a while, brilliant production and neutrality to every brand, but those useless comparison is driving me crazy. Please don't do those experiments anymore, where with some ability in calculation and knowledge in basic engineering you can tell that the experimental error and environmental variation easily outweigh the difference between different brand. You are better at giving subjective riding experience or other stuff like difference in maintenance etc. Just don't want your time to be wasted in those comparison otherwise you can do some other useful experiment. Advices on meaningful topics: don't focus on different brands, but different product categories, like different rim depth; tubeless/tubes; Aeroframe/Climber frame; bottles behind saddle/ on the downtube; aerohelmet etc.
Dt Swiss every day....cheap, light , durable and easy to service...
Love my DT240's, but theyre just too noisy. Stealth freehubs ftw.
Aaron took a little grease out of the 180s and I was very surprised how much more noise came out of them!
Put a bit more more grease in them, they will become very quiet.
I run the dt swiss 360s and absolutely love the sound😂
My DT240 freehub is virtually silent which is what I like about it. God knows what you are doing (or not doing) if you think they are noisy. Maybe you should try the Chris King if you really want to know what an annoying hub is.
@@ashleyhouse9690 If its virtually silent its either an old version, or worn out. Know a few people with 240's and theyre noisy af.
Hub shoot out. Come in spinner
y no carbon ti hub
maybe I've missed the point of this video.
I cant see this beeing an honest attept to answer the question in the title.
He didn't say fastest rolling, it could be fastest to max out your credit card
More impressive is DT Swiss availability of parts and spares and ease of use around the world. And for that... No one else can even compare to DT Swiss. Not even a close second...
They really are pretty easy to service.
Oh boy with this hub sound thing. Okay so I'm a motorcyclist for about 2 decades and a returning cyclist for a few years now. The first thing I learned was cycling hurts my butt (hadn't ridden for years). The second thing I learned was how much damn noise there is in the world. You don't hear it with a helmet and earplugs, that's for sure. I hope at least bicycles can have the nerve to stay quiet
Agreed! So lets all just keep peddling...please
I know two hubs manufacturers with noise-free freehub mechanisms:
Onyx Racing: Dual sprag clutch
FOSS (Taiwan): Zero-Drag freehub mechanism (disengages when you backpedal slightly, leaving only two friction points left: the hub bearings and tires on the road)