[Brutal + Demon King] I think Spiders might need to be nerfed - Ep.1
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2023
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Age of Wonders 4 is a new magic based 4x game that has some elements of civilization as well as Master of Magic.
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Press 👍 if spiders scare you
i wnat to like the video but spiders dont scare me, what do i do :(
have pet spiders so no but weirdly enough I hate spider webs
Once there was a spider in my toilet, its not my toilet any longer...
i hate spiders
i disliked this comment because spuders are cool
Im surprised you didnt you the official arachnophobia mod that turns all spiders into potatoes. Rising the broken potatoes to victory lol
Spiders currently do double damage with their webs due to a bug, there is a mod on the workshop that fixes it until the devs get to it (they know about the bug)
Spiders consuming bugs to function. Just like real life.
Webs should catch bugs, that is the purpose. So I think they should just keep the bug in the web.
I don't understand why the webs do damage at all. A 1-AP ability to immobilize in a 1-hex radius is already really good on its own. And it doesn't make logical sense either.
@@ekulio It's 3 AP not 1
Honestly web being 1 ap and not doing damage seems like a pretty good ability on it's own. Cause right now it is mostly used for guaranteed aoe damage multiplied by crits and buffs. Will feel bad if it doesn't work though so i guess that was the intention. Maybe make immobilised guaranteed or higher chance so it fills different niche?
I am so glad that Potato is still making AoW4 videos
Keep it up, they’ve all been great
Here is this fire giant. He’s pretty good
*”but is he a spider?”*
1:20 Overwhelm tactics is bugged and only gives 10% crit chance just so you know
No, it's not a bug. This is a rebalance and it should give 10%. The information on the race creation screen is incorrect because the old data remained there before rebalancing.
Overwhelm Tactics is so weak, Elusive for most cultures/Ferocious Industrial is where its at, tbh.
@@PilvenugaFr,ferocious is great for industrious
Dude Potato you're singlehandedly responsible for so many of your audience getting into this game, they should give you a prize or something. I've been having so much fun with this game lately
shame he is abusing a well known bug without letting people know he's doing it... its very dishonest and likely only done for content... kinda scummy of him
@@ninvusoogoar6098 What do you even think you're talking about? I have context on the bug from the comment, but making such a snide, motive-attributing comment is just..stupid.
You don't know him, you don't know what he's thinking and doing, and why; don't say things about why people do things that you don't know, it makes you look stupid, and like you don't care about engaging with other people on a real level.
@@ninvusoogoar6098he announces at the beginning that it is a big, there’s plenty of fun to be had in the game outside of this and his other videos have shown that.
Don’t be disingenuous.
Yes, he is, and he's acknowledged by Paradox, and mentioned in the game itself for being a prized influencer and a business partner.
What you described is literally his job, I'm not sure why people think video game influencers are our buddies, they're literally outsourced video game salesmen working for major companies, but in today's landscape everything is fuzzy, and so because they're not directly on anyone's payroll, they sometimes have to mix and match and earn their survival through their own hard effort, which makes contemporary capitalism highly effective in how it maximizes efficiency.
And nobody actually notices or considers it's the capitalism they're seeing, people think we're all just good buddies, we play games, and everything is lovely. Yes GODDAMNIT, he is responsible for so many of his audience getting into this game, THIS IS WHY HE GOT IT FOR FREE, and they give him a prize in form of getting him enrolled in their partnership program, getting access to everything, and quite possibly by giving him discounted keys. I don't know if they pay him anything, I don't think they do, because the reasoning is that they get him the means to get traction and some sweet love from the Algorithm. If I was to ask him cover my game, he would charge me, but not if I'm Paradox.
Man, capitalism is truly rotten. Grow up.
@@milanstevic8424 What's the purpose of telling us things we mostly already know, just to provide another complaint against Capitalism, which we already hate?
Potato's not our buddy, but it's not like he's much more of a stooge of Capitalism than the rest of us. Honestly, I feel like there has to be some personal reasons in your life to make you express your frustrations with the world as a critique of Capitalism on a PotatoMcWhiskey comment section. Hope you feel better soon.
Broken combos like this is often what make the game fun. In this case it’s bugged and not working as intended. But I hope they don’t balance the game too much to ruin fun and somewhat OP builds.
Very much agreed
With how the game is designed, there will always be OP builds. Any culture can dip into any tome, which has an exponential number of synergies.
48:48 I know it's just a scout but it actually pays off to fight impossible battles manually, only to immediately retreat the units, so it's really quick. They frequently survive and teleport back to the city after just a few turns. And the worst case is what you already get by doing autocombat. I wish there was an autobutton for this called "Attempt to Flee".
On a side note, Barbarian Scouts can build Outposts.
Even in the late game, this is very handy - you can sneak a scout behind the enemy capital, find the outpost, build a teleporter there, and have your Gul'dan's own Dark Portal invasion. ;)
I just did a game with a very similar build. Only difference was I took shadow walkers because I originally wanted to see if you could win just with spider riding scouts, but they don't benefit from most unit enchantments or from fabled hunters. I was still able to kill suprisingly tough stacks just with massed spider scouts, but furies definitely work better. I think even if web gets it's damage fixed this will still be a really fun and strong strategy.
an archer with fast movement and immobilize is already like, hello?
doing damage is just the cherry on top
Can't recall the channel, but someone just did a video about this setup, and was crushing it.
So cool to see you trying out the challenging world scenarios!
I need to play this ASAP. I hate when things get nerfed before I've had my fun with them...
I love that you decided to do this run. Spiders were always my favorite units in AoW3 because it felt so satisfying to get a tier 3 out of a tier 1 unit.
Little tip I've discovered: Selling hero items you don't think you'll use to other rulers is a great source of early game money, don't leave it on the table!
I heard this before, but I don't seem to find the button. I know how to sell them just from inventory, and I also know how to iniitiate trade deals with cities, but I never found an option to sell an item to a ruler.
@@stefanb6539 In the diplomacy screen with a ruler, click the "negotiate" button, there will be options to trade all sorts of things including items, magic materials etc.
also you can buy a lot of high tier items from the other rulers
suggested this spider build in your first brutal playthrough, glad to see it in action, nice job.
Furies are kind of expensive. The strat is to only build spider scouts and get all race transformations. Nothing can stop them.
I have been waiting for more age of wonders videos. Thank you for the amazing video!
DAMN, I think this is my fav build I've seen so far! Absolutely amazing :D
Insane Fights Dude! Nice Work
I just did this playthrough it's so op with high crit modifiers, I even took the tome of revels just for the hero skill that gives all your units 20% crit. Barbarians are so good though being able to make outposts with scouts is very strong. Surprised you didn't take mana addicts considering it's so broken and the life steal applies to the webs.
Seriously applies to webs? Nice
probably trying to not take mana addicts every single game
If he wants to experience imo arguably the most broken build in the game. Sneaky High culture with tome of the horde + whatever(+arrow damage or enchantment tome is best for the +range imo). Then go into tome of artifice and tome of amplification. Then just stack either weapon or arrow enchants. Enjoy your tier 1 Dawn Defenders, or Dusk Hunters that hit as hard as tier 3 units (and scale harder because they get more damage from tome of the horde). Watch as your Dusk Hunters can bomb out tier 5 mythics in a single volley from 7 tiles away (if you take seeker arrows for the +1 range).
Mana addicts is a noobtrap though, the opportunity cost is too high for something you can get through Dark culture or Undeath anyway. In the early game, casting every turn is going to bankrupt you on mana, so you cant get your wizard tower up as fast. In the midgame you feel the crunch of not going Adept Settlers. And in the lategame you feel the fact you didnt go Runesmiths.
But you're gonna have a good time going full mana casters until you have to attack a domain with sanctuary+spelljammer or face a Magebane.
Really, the downsides are too much, its fun to play as a gimmick but its not strong.
Runesmith and Silvertongues has been pretty damn good overall for my playstyles
If playing this game would be as enetertaing as your video, I would not stop playing it. Literally.
"I'm going to give them a whispering stone for now but we will be killing them." What a glorious eastern Canadian accent. Loving these vids brother.
Nice! Thanks for this gameplay, love it, waiting for the next one! I already told u i dont understand how coooooool its this game, sooo cooooool
Potato I just did this crazy game where I did a similar build but went late-game Order tome to grab Sanctuary to give the tier 2 spiders all Keeper's Mark and then Exaltation for "Ascended Warriors".
That spell is INSANE with spiders. It ranks each one up each cast, so up to 6 at a time, and you can turn an army that you pumped out in 1-2 turns into Matriarchs for no cost but the mana.
I won a crazy game on Hard mode with stacks of Matriarchs running around.
Mana unchained is a pretty nutty hero ability on an archer build btw. Worth trying if you haven't yet.
Awesoome, can't wait for next episode
You can do this with Feudal Scouts. Stand together + cheaper upkeep...
Hot take: Seeing as most people seem to play single player; and if they do venture into multiplayer it's usually with friends where you can set house rules, I think keeping fun & busted stuff in the game is fine. Let the player use and abuse goof if they want to; besides, in a game like this I get the feeling there's always SOMETHING that's going to be super strong, and going around and stomping all of it is just going to make it dull.
less nerfing more buffing, give every tome type a crazy bugged unit haha
There's a difference between "fun and strong", and "literally deal double the damage it's supposed to deal, in an aoe, while also giving a chance to immobilize, and can be spammed on 60 gold units". Not to mention facing Megafauna 4 spider stacks is a pain with this bug.
Why bother balancing the game at all?
@@forwenein2669 then don’t use the web or don’t use spiders. It isn’t the only choice.
@@Tubalcain422 would be cool to have my roleplay goblin spider riders not be blatantly overpowered so much that they breeze through everything. Otherwise, I might aswell download "make your hero 100x more powerful" cheat mods
What's the fun in having no challenge whatsoever?
Bought this game Friday I’m full blown addicted having a blast
- I have a different type of spider build. I go spider mounts + underground adapt (mainly for chosen destroyer). I go feudal for stand together (20% more damage when adjent to a friend). I go chosen destroyer (permanent income with razing cities) + Perfectionist Artisans (great pair for chosen destroyers because chosen destroyer only have 1 city. plus gives tier 3 unit). I go wizard king always brainless for me.
- Military strategy: till turn 30ish I only recruit scouts because they are cheap, great pillagers, web makes them op, u should have 4 - 5 full stack at this point. After that you build wildlife sanct and recruit hunter spiders which can evolve to tier 4 spider unit. After turn 60 u can recruit cavs, cavs are quick so great at reinforcing ur stacks but at this point u should camfortably say this campaign is over if you raze a lot of city. I don't value crit chance early cus in the late game with astral blood and some of the late game nature books u should have flat 40 % crit and in battle after casting 1 spell max 50 % crit chance. I go melee lord to frontline and always upgrade support skills to boost my units to another dimension LITERALLY. First special skill should be shadow one for affinity cus first shadow empire development gives you 50 RESEARCH PER HERO LEVEL U KILLED this makes u research monster in harder difficulties.
- Expansion strategy: You think there is no expansion with chosen destroyers because they cannot build city. Which is true but the strategy is clear ancient wonder and annex them with outpost + u should always have outpost close to your next target because of teleportation.
- Books: I go 2 tier 1 nature books they are OP. For tier 2 books I go amplification for astral blood (10% crit chance every time you cast spell in battle STACKS) and Revelery for chaos affinity and revelery triump hero support skill (gives 20 % crit chance for non-hero units in the army). For tier 3 books I go Vigor which is must have for empowered beast and supergrowt AND Devastation tome for flammable weapons and devastator spheres. For Tier 4 I go Paradise for gaia's chosen and natures wrath for awaken the forrest and Natures avenger hero sup skill (In battle u can cast this for 0 action points gives 2 hexes of area all animal and plant units 5 strengtened [50% damage] ). LAST Tome Goddes of nature for mass rej which makes ur units unkillable in battle and force of nature for 20% crit chance to all ur units.
IDK who is gonna make it this far to read it but enjoy the most op build (for me) that I found
Such an epic win on the last battle!
RIP Sharna the Shining (2023-2023). She died to save the Empire from the Demon Horde. Never forget
Man those map modifiers seem intense! Looking forward to trying that map!!
Awesome game going on. I hope you do some more of these!
I just made a spider build myself. But im going full hunter spiders and a wildcaller to further decrease upkeep. Nature and order are my 2 favourite secondaries but together they are really good for Farm builds.
This is a fantastic game. Age of Wonders 3 is also worth playing, and I'm glad to see such a strong sequel.
The final order empire development perk will also grant the Furies +50% evasion once they reach legend rank.
it's cool to have when you have 4 stacks or so with legends :)
Did just play game with spider riding overhelm barbarian goblins, next one will be wolf riding overhelm feudal orcs to get nice melee cavarly buffs, overhelm one combined to wolf mounts pack tactics, howl and feudal's stand together one.
For whatever reason this is one of the view videos i could watch all the way through. Most of them I get bored half way through.
I honestly think i learned more about the game from this than the overexplained videos. Watching you play by the seat of your pants really showed how to prioritize what.
Love the series. impressive gameplay.
A challenge for you, PotatoMcWhiskey.
Play a brutal game with only summoned units. Not necessarily only units that you summon yourself, but only units that are all mana upkeep.
I'm enjoying this a lot
before I even watch the video let me just say this, demon king just kicked my ass on hard since he has tier IV warbreeds from the get go.. stay out of a war with him for as long as possible he obliterates tier 1 and 2 units. also the leader '' demon prince is a killing machine with a axe
OMG, you used my build! I am totally taking credit for this with no evidence or the fact I was using Wolves! :D
Just trying it out a month later, Now barbs get the base warrior as a mountable unit. They really expanded the amount of units who can get mounts and it's nuts with prolific swarmers that helps curb many of the issues you have with no real front line, high gold costs and well, -10% food needed is always going to be nice.
The "More Cavalry" mod makes the Tier 1 Warriors into Cavalry, and I am having an absolute blast. 😂
Honestly I don't even know why Webs do any damage at all, even if it's due to a bug.
My take on mounted tactics was Industrial Wolf Bastions. Went materium and nature, stacking most physical/cavalry buffs I could. Early game was hard because wolf scouts dont do much damage so I went pretty much normal industrial early but as soon as the first bastions got made I was steamrolling and losing nothing.
Unfortunately the hero skill that gives mental control imunity to animals and cavalry does not work on self inflicted debuffs and my guys still berserked after Awaken Instincts but it was still so much fun
it's also worth noting the 80% psyche damage bonus against opponents with arachnophobia.
I’m playing this exact build currently and it is so overpowered. No battle is impossible with immobilizing and the total damage of web. Once you get your tier two archer, the game is on easy mode.
Already saw the spider cheese on a smaller channel. :3 He cleared pretty much any enemy army on brutal. Even with t4 units in it. Only with scouts and his hero.
Did a scout only run. Only recruited scouts, as well as a couple heroes to lead the armies. Thought it’d be a really hard challenge but it ended up being a piece of cake cause I gave them spider mounts.
It turns out an army of spiders is pretty strong, even if they have wimpy scouts riding them.
Also, primal mark is for MELEE attacks, not ranged (I wished it did)
thanks for the video!
Going to be interesting to see what they do about the spiders and the spider mounts.
If they increase the amount of polearm units the AI brings out, it will balance itself out. Going with a mounted race incurs the +40% damage you take from polearm units, so a Industrial with ferocious that went with tome of warding and mirrors just has to spam polearms to win. That includes Gold golems. Oh God.
"I don't really care what he looks like"
As someone who spends over an hour in character designers no matter what, I'm offended
Good video. However i whold love to see you playing this with the yogs
Thanks for your videos and for your guide, are u planning to play Dark in brutal difficulty ? i'm pretty curious to see how are u build that faction in brutal. I mean ,i guess u couldnt rush like ur did in ur guide right ?
The unlucky start will only make it more satisfying at the end. wondering what the spider late game will look like.
Quick question, Potato, what's your favorite affinity combo in this game?? I'm just curious and recently started AoW4 myself
37:03 Potato recuits a giant spider
Definitely trying this before its fixed
Were you peaking in my windows again Tater? I literally just finished a Spider Cavalry Demon game before I saw the notification for this video. Granted, I don't play on Brutal, and I used a much more forgiving world, but I'm curious to see how you go about it.
PS: Don't you dare suggest nerfing my beautiful spiders, I love those guys.
Potato: What kind of AoW4 content are you interested in? Leave comments!
Also Potato: Here's more Chaos archer spam!
lololol
But also, super impressed how efficient your gameplay is. I'm still faffing about on Normal, these Brutal games are terrifying.
I was told by devs, that spides do incorrectly double damage and it will be fixed (nerved) soon, basically right now you could build brutal game with just spider scout, nothing else needed.
As much as I enjoy this playthrough, I would love to see an Industrialist one more
For it being a broken ability choice, you sure have to min max a lot of stuff. Take these abilities, take this culture, take this tome, sell these units, build this exact city order, take these hero skills, make sure you have lots of gold so that the 12 gold per turn for the unit is affordable, hope you don’t face your race in war as a free city... How about Industrious spider riders with ocean dwelling and take the evocation tome. You might not think it is as overpowered as you think.
czcams.com/video/C5v4GK6UESA/video.html
You also just saw 2 stacks of tier II units beat 2 stacks of tier 4 units + more at turn 30.
So like, it's definitely OP
@@krityaan i have seen that in other builds as well. The issue with manual combat vs AI.
The fire giant is clearly hanging out in a tree in a very spider like way
Siege optimization:
Cragwell had 30 points
Default siege deals 10 per turn.
You ain't gettin 20 for the one turn siege.
So you only need 5 more.
Sabotage support is beautiful, plus literally any of the 3s sitting on the list.
Tadaaaaah.
Something I noticed about all the "pre-made" realms is that their names are randomized every time you open the menu
Love your videos, Do you really talk that fast, or is it sped up?
Lmao when you said appeal instead of stability (civ player be like...)
First time even hearing of age of wonder
"Potato Spiders" is a example mod.
You missed the shot to have your spiders, and eat your Potatoes too!
37:27 rule of cool prevails as it should
little goblin laugh at 28:23
Warhammer spiders and giants are in the orcs and goblins lineup, so the giant is fine
I was thinking of a underground, spider-mount elvish build. Any way to get cool synergies with that?
You'd be surprised to know that there is a mount which is even more overpowered than the spider mounts.
The Wolf mount is essentially the T4 "White Wolf" unit as a mount, one tier higher than the wolf you get from the nature empire development perk. It gives all cavalry a stacking 20% damage buff per adjacent other cavalry with the same perk, while also giving them an AoE magic attack which applies weakened, allowing Dark units to gain another 20% damage buff. Dark Knights have an ability which deals 18 damage in a 2 hex cone, which doubles if the enemies have any debuffs. Shock units are also able to benefit from most enchantments, allowing you to rush a T3 city and have immediate access to units which will allow you to steamroll for the rest of the game, as the Dark Knights essentially quadruple in combat-effectiveness in the hands of a player, all by picking a single racial trait.
how do you decide what build you are going, all these in the first 4-5 minutes of the game could you do a more detailed version on how theorycrafting works for aow4?
Are you uploading sped up versions of your recordings with a lot of cuts or am I imagining things? This seriously messes with my anxiety.
Had this idea a while ago but I was kinda worried about ai spamming aoes with this build which happens when you get 3 heros with the bilzzard wand.
yeah, well, spiders are full of bugs and exploits. With spider mounts, you can also prospect not even moutains, but also forests... and any unit on spider can prospect (not only scout, but also hero for example).
Oh and they crap gold and cure cancer.
I‘m gonna fight the demon king!
Game: Let‘s see how well you can snowball in hell.
What build would you suggest if I want to run animal based race
The first time I played I accidentally used them. But I never abused the spider web mechanic and it was fair otherwise. They just have to fix the bug, that's it
The attack of the spider furries, sorry I mean furies.
Honestly I thin that spider web should not do any damage, just immobilize and it will be still fine mount to have.
46:15 Adding merchandise to the queue is meaningless, it's already in there by default when you have nothing else going on. Previously in AoW Shadow Magic there were a couple more options for the baseline conversion: gold, mana, and maybe something else, can't remember. But now it's just conversion to gold, and it's always there by default.
My furies wouldn't mount 😢 it showed the spider in the menu but in game no spiders. Which really sucks as Goblin Spider Riders sounded so good to me they were my first playthrough and by the time that bug gets fixed they will fix the bugged dmg as well.
you know what I miss? dwarven cultures having rifles or as it was called in the commonwealth on AOW 3, boomsticks. the crossbows are fine I guess but I want gunpowder units
Coming in the 2nd or 3rd dlc I think? They adding the steam punk culture then.
@@mercb3ast oh yes thank you that was my favorites xD
Spooders so OP they spoopy. ...Or is it so spoopy they OP?
I want more spidersssss 😊
Im addicted to this game, at least watching this game hahaha
There are 3 builds that need nerfing. Spiderscouts, Houndmasters and tier 1 summoning builds.
you can potentially add tier 1 high archer full enchant spam.
overall there is a LOT of build that would need a nerf
@@kalzhae enchant spam takes a couple turns. The 3 I mentioned, don't. Well, maybe Houndmasters take a couple of turns. By then you have houndmasters with good tier 2 or even tier 3 tomes/entchants.
@@HolgerLovesMusic sure it tooks a couple of turn compared to those, but it's still a T1 spam build that can melt full stack of T5 or even full buffed not mythic T4 as if they were made of butter.
Spider scouts are really good, but like potato said, it falls off. It's basically a rush strat that hurts you later if you put a bunch of resources into scouts.
@@HolgerLovesMusic Tier 1 high is the MP meta from what I've heard. The stuff you just listed, isn't really anywhere near as broken as tier 1 high archers.
The enchant spam is just what pushes the build from being brutally OP on turn 4 or so when you cast Spawnkin, to being brutal OP on turn 50 when your archers can one shot tier 5 mythic units.
Here is why High tome of the horde is busted. Turn 1, your awakened tier 1 units do 14 damage and the archers have +1 range and +20% accuracy making them more comfy to use at max range. On turn whenever you cast Spawnkin, your tier 1 archers and sword and board boys go from 14 damage, to 19.6 damage. That is equivalent to tier 2 and tier 3 damage. From a tier 1 unit. And this is out of the box as soon as you get spawnkin. These stacks need a hero that has taken the tome of the horde battle seeker training perk to achieve the +40% damage from tome of the horde. That's pretty doable. These archers will one shot houndmasters from beyond their range. One shot spider scouts from beyond their range.
It's stupidly synergistic because of the +4 damage from being awakened, and then +40% damage on top of that from the two damage buffs from tome of the horde. Spawnkin +20% and Battle Seeker Training +20% for tier 1 units only.
I think this is more of an Arachnophilia build
am i the only one who had to check if i had this video on 2x speed? (in the start of the video)
It feels like he speeds it up so the videos arent as long. I had to put it at .75% speed to watch it.
yes spiders supposedly does twice as much damage as stated...