DO NOT pull the scapula back and down!
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2018
- A common cue is that patients or clients should pull their scapula back and down. However, is this reasonable - or just a massive fallacy?
By pulling the scapula back and down, you risk jamming the brachial plexus and subclavian vessels into the first rib. BONES will be compressing these structures, potentially causing costoclavicular space syndrome and thoracic outlet syndrome! This can cause tremendous problems which you may read more about in my TOS article, linked below. Further, scapula "back and down" will put the scapula in retraction and downward rotation, GREATLY increasing the risk of both subacromial and coracoid impingement syndromes, with subsequent pain, muscle injury and late-night cries for help.
DO NOT PULL THE SCAPULA BACK AND DOWN! Learn to maintain proper scapular height during glenohumeral articulation. It is harder, but your body will thank you! Studies show that these patients have DEPRESSED scapulae, not elevated!
* treningogrehab.no/how-truly-t...
* treningogrehab.no/permanently...
Never had trouble with my shoulders until I started following "back & down" advice from CZcams experts.
@OVERCOME72 Retype that
Same
Same
Same
Reddelta project?
Just stumbled across your website and I haven't seen anything this comprehensive about neck anatomy, physiology etc. Hidden gem thank you!
I watched 5 videos and you have gone 5/5 with accurately describing and fixing my problems. I think you were sent from god.
I could say the same, seriosuly.
Sent from God, eh. I'll take it.
@@MSKNeurology haha
What was the fix for this? I didn't see it. Watching as I work I'll have to watch it again
I think i have seen you on Twitter.
You are a GENIUS. Thank you for sharing all this awesome info and explaining it!
I actually applauded when I got to the end of this video. Great message!
I was messing up my body so badly until now... You saved me!
Your videos have helped me on the glute medius. Piriformis. Psoas. And now this. It seems you're the only one on CZcams with the right idea about what muscles do! Spent months doing the back and down and just made my neck pain worse. Seems I have a downward rotated shoulder and this was just feeding it. Keep it up!
Thanks a lot! Happy to hear that!
Which video does he talk about glute medius in?
@@MSKNeurology i’m with the guy above me, wish video about glute med?
@@cjtam7091 czcams.com/video/oMuVSlg1CGs/video.html. Sorry about the very long delay, you probably found the video by now, i only just saw this reply by chance when revisiting this video years later!
@@thepurelegend thank you man very much apreciated
Thank you for doing the research and putting your insights online here for free. You’re helping so many scapulas out there, mine included. I’m a dancer and the “advice” we get sometimes about posture is pure bs
MSK biz is a joke
Makes so much sense. I hurt my shoulder now listening to wrong people keeps making it worse!
I’m recovering from whiplash injury and overlapping SLAP tears and multiple RTC tears that later resulted in thoracic outlet syndrome. After 3 awful and expensive experiences with therapists with poor understanding I only started getting better when I started rehabbing on my own. Thanks for the great videos.
You should do a bench press demonstration video man. I think it would help a lot of people who need help with the scapular positioning element of the lift.
Andrew P. Tonelli I agree but I think this guy's totally right and he's the only guy telling it the way it is I got a slight rotator cuff tear and I think it's due to keep in my scapular back on bench press you're stretching stuff that hooks between the scapula and your shoulder and God didn't make our bodies to do that like he says stop it all that scapular back and down is just broscience with no description of it like he does with that simulated shoulder this guy is a shoulder saver the only exercise it might be okay to do that on is maybe curls because your upper arm is in a stationary elbow at your side position maybe some other exercises where you don't move your upper arms
It's funny because patients and clients are taught shit technique, they get hurt, get sent to physio or similar which enforces the shitty pattern and only treats the symptoms; repeat cycle
czcams.com/video/BZ4zkH888T4/video.html Dave Tate explain really well how to bench properly
@@sagi_tech_n_stuff Could you elaborate? I'm genuinely curious and have an open mind.
@Chris Brown I think my arguments speak for themselves. If you want to create dorsal stability by crushing the plexus then you're doing it wrong. Take no offense, you're not alone. This bullshit has taken the world by storm and must be stopped. Watch my rowing video for approximate scap positioning during horisontal movements.
10000% great advice. I've been improperly repositioning my scapula back and down after PT advice and experience brachial plexus compression tingling numbness because of it.
Which exercise did they give you to do that
@@GoodByeSkyHarborLive it wasn't necessarily an exercise but the stress on that postural cue.
Oh wow, this explains so much and why the exercises my physiotherapists gave me made me worse! Thanks a lot for the video!
Great video. Try to demonstrate how involvement of acromion is related to the process, and in this relation how collarbone pushes etc. I will love to see such video and bet other would too, even if they do not know it. It may be complicated to explain, but it should be possible to make interested people dig this, as it is highly relevant.
thankyou brother. i learned the hard way from shoulders back and down.......tightness.... small fall.... snapped collar bone........... all bad
I am not an expert but this video makes sense. I always had doubts on putting the shoulder blades together and down. I think the natural way is simply the row exercise movement.
He is 100 percent right.I tried this movement and it never worked on made my fingertips get cold easy and numb.
Thank you. My shoulder feels much more natural when I treat it like a ball joint rotating around in conjunction with the scapula instead of on an "L" shaped track.
Thank you for your videos. You explain everything very well which is very helpful when doing exercises. 👍
Great, thank you.
This deserves more views. It's confusing why a lot of people on this platform create videos that tell us to retract and depress the scapula. I had a lot of shoulder pain from doing that till now
same bro!!!!
Unreal. Been retracting my scapula this way for ages. Multiple physiotherapists could not tell me what was wrong. Fixed this simple issue in the gym and started strengthening upper traps as a result of becoming weakened. Rotator cuffs overcompensated and its resulted in pain for the last 2 years. As someone else has commented below; I had 0 shoulder pain until I started following the ''back and down'' advice from youtubers.
@@aaronbutterfield4002hey bro do you mind helping me I was a heavy lifter for years , retracting depressing squeezing blades and arching back as hard as I can. Now I have a messed up rotator cuff bad range of motion pain and my upper traps cramp when I squeeze them. What exercises Helped you thx
@@Yazan.Jayusi go see a physio bro. Find out if its shoulder impingement, a SLAP tear, rotator cuff tear etc.
@@aaronbutterfield4002 all these physical therapists keep giving me random exercises that did nothing to me. If anything it have me new problems
This makes complete sense. But please can u throw some light on the rounded shoulder syndrome and thoracic kyphosis and the alternatives to addressing those without scapula adjustment? thanks
thank you very much, very well explained. This "qew" never made sense to me
This content is so good, I’ve been a victim of oversimplified scapula cues for years!
Was retracting and depressing on side raises and felt a shooting pain on me left shoulder slash upper pec, makes sense now but crazy I’ve been doing it for years that way and it was a warm up set too, rehabbing(feels like I triggered some scapular winging I rehabbed a while ago) but this is good to know
Wow that opened my eyes! My Physio and a Cantienica therapist always force me to do the back and down movement. I do it habitually now and I recently developed tos on the left side and the mild tos I had for years on the right side (just learned it’s tos) is so much worse! Don’t wanna go for surgery
Huge mistake. Don't go back to these people.
Thank you for posting this eye-opening lecture. I have a question. Did you also post a lecture on what we are to do with our scapula when we are exercising? You touch upon this topic toward the end. But I am clearer on the what not to do versus the what to do. You are an excellent teacher and I am hoping you did.
You get your answer yet? I'm growing skeptical of this guy.
Great video, thank you so much
Thank you so much sir. I was initially diagnosed with trapezitis.. prescribed exercises. Then I realised I am having neural symptoms. Then I was told there is some cervical radiculopathy along with trapezitis. However I had symptoms along medial 2 fingers and sometimes all over. The cervical nerve root values did not correspond to mri which showed bulge at c5 c6.
Brachial plexus compression explains everything!
I am a doctor myself. So I wasn't convinced with several other diagnoses which I was offered
Thank you so much for your videos. May a times exercises are advised without much consideration to the anatomy..
Fantastic explanation and advice. Thank you!
Do a video on the bench please. Actually when you train the chest. Most people including me don’t understand the terms being used
czcams.com/video/VCbD67b-Mo8/video.html
great explanation with the models, thank you
You're making a lot of sense you disagree with most bench pressers but I think you're right thanks for the info Common Sense tells you your scapula and stuff should follow what your arm does
Yes a slightly elevated "latspreaded" position is optimal, similar to when a boxer punches
Wow this is too relevant. I have rheumatoid arthritis and I have body pain generally. I have been working on my posture (up and back) and I have temendous nerve pain primary behind my left shoulder blade and "snapping scapula'". What exercises would you suggest for this? I've been an avid weight lifter for a decade and this pain is really slowing me down. Nothing seems to fix it. I also watched your psoas series and it was remarkably relevant to me, my hip flexors and psoas are extremely tight and I have wondered if it's a muscular imbalance. I would love any tips you can give me. There is sharp pain behind one or both of my scapulas. I had been working on diaphragmatic breathing to the point I almost.donit exclusively and I never had this pain when I was you get and breathed into my thorax.
Thanks for the sharing and a video on demonstrating how to proper bench press would help a lot of people
This Q alone caused me months after months of shoulder pain, doing physical therapy was just making things worse.
Stopping this Q fixed main issues with my shoulder within 2 weeks.
Massive thank you.
Well done buddy
The last 15 seconds of this video are the best 🤣💀💀
Thank you! Right on. :)
How should we bench than ? Great info btw.
Thanks for this video
This was helpful
I’m amazed how many physios have given me no only no effective treatment but actual advice that is detrimental to my recovery.. where can I find a guy like this in the uk
You won't.
Super helpful reply
I hope you do a bench press video because there is a lot of people claim that scapular retraction is the secret weapon of having a nicely safe bench press, & I don't know how to bench press until this moment! :(
Instead of pulling them down and back, pull them back and 2-3 cm up.
@@szyszak9424 Go away
@@szyszak9424 Off with you little clown
I would appreciate if you could film a bench-press-setup-video for us, cheers.
czcams.com/video/VCbD67b-Mo8/video.html
Wow, I'd never heard this concept before. Every PT says down and back but my issues persist. Going to try this. Thanks for the vid.
Stop paying them, it is making you worse.
@@MSKNeurology so what’s the fix then?????
@@rachkate76 how about watching the video?
@Westward Thinking I found a better one 2 wks ago where I was forced to preface the appointment by starting off saying ‘if you don’t listen to what I have to say as well as listen to what my experiences have been with 3 other physio clinics about this condition who have done the same thing again and again and are setting me up to fail then asking me to pay them, I’m going to get up and leave and you’re not getting paid.’
Then pause.
It disarms them pretty quick.
I’ve had 3 appointments with this guy and he’s agreed with everything I said so far about where the problem is, that’s it’s been looked at from the wrong angle, he’s given me different exercises along the lines of what I actually need and I am improving a bit already.
I still have a shoulder specialist appt on Monday that he works closely with but so far haven’t had to fight him on anything while talking throughout consults.
He’s expensive but so far worth it.
I wanted to cry after watching this! I’ve been suffering from severe shoulder and neck dysfunction and pain for about 8 years, and going on the advice from therapist at the time of my injury, I’ve been pulling shoulders back and down the whole time thinking that is what’s needed 😢
Get em up
Mine have become anterior tilted.
I swear these people don’t have a damn clue- they just keep selling us false hope and making us worse.
I went from a couple of injuries to now several and getting nowhere with any of them.
I’m at wits end trying to get a physio to listen. 😡
@@rachkate76 It's not that they're not listening, it is that hey're trying to hide the fact that they do not know how to treat this problem
Good morning Sir🙂
Absolutely makes sense. Following this "back & down", I have been hurting myself for years!!!
So, what's the RIGHT way to develop the rotor cuff and back muscles?
Thank you so much
Proper posture. See my recent video for scapular and neck postures and my previous videos for cuff training. Good luck!
Really interesting and helpful.... Thank you..... Can u pls suggest any cues which will help maintain proper scapular position while retraction exercises or abduction exercises...
You gotta hold them up! No quick fixes!
That how we we're taught all these years, back and down. I swear I don't know anymore and just gonna do my own :(
I think the key word is snug. Down but not all the way down, just snug.
I have not been able to bench press for about a year because of left shoulder pain. for the past year i've been doing everything I've read to be able to live without this shoulder popping and fix my shoulder discomfort and flat benching pain. Quick backstory: I am left handed, and have had shit posture since early high school, I am 25 now, after high school and until now I have worked in a blue collar industry, carrying heavy objects with my left hand, slowly I developed constant impingement, and popping even without exercising. for the last year, with the advice of physical therapists and coaches on the internet I have improved my thoracic spine mobility, chest flexibility, lat flebibility, I can almost reach my arms perfectly overhead. I have been frustrated thinking I am doing everything I should, and while I enjoy being able to live generally pain free in my left shoulder, and overhead press with much better form and mobility, it frustrates me every week that I am not able to flat bench press or do any types of weighted pushups. last night I was thinking of an Aaron Horshig instagram post in bed, I start messing around imitating a bench press as always. I am constantly paying attention to my dirrect shoulder region but I pay attention to how my right scapula moves organically while my left one just feels off and unnatural, and just from imitating my right scapula after many, many tries in bed I was able to extend my shoulder 90 degrees without my shoulder internally rotating at the top of the bench press movement and making a mean pop noise. I've been completely excited since last night, it's like I have this final piece of the puzzle after realizing how messed up my scapulohumeral rythm. You are the first educator I have seen that talked about this issue with the bench press in all these frustrating weeks. I am exited to get my shoulders to their greatest potential, thank you.
Did you fix your shoulder issues??
Bro we need a update I have the same exact issue 😭
look into doing dead hangs for your shoulder issue.
You are totally correct this caused me pinched nerve in neck
Listen to this man, suffered from scapular dyskinesis for years. MRI's done on my shoulder(all clear), years of physiotherapy ("Oh you just have tight upper traps") and countless specialists (orthopedic surgeons, sports doctors etc) referrals only to be told that my shoulder joint is healthy and professionals doubting the pain I suffered. Reference, I am a mid 20 male, athletic and in "perfect health" according to health professionals.
Two months ago I discovered his techniques regarding scapular function. Pain gone, stiffness gone, clunky shoulder, gone. Can finally preform push-ups / bench presses without my scapular muscles aching the next day, shoulder press without that catching feeling near my armpit. Best part of all, my shoulder socket has never felt more stable in my life. All these years and all someone had to tell me was that my Scapula was anteriorly rotated and depressed. Posterior tilt is your friend. Learn this mans cues for anyone who is a non-professional weightlifter, they will save you years of muscle strain and doctors visits. Wish I was supporting your clinic instead of all those $000s spent on local physiotherapists.
@Westward Thinking same thing happened to me, idk why they call "specialists". They are garbage and make people feel worse
I am more confused than ever....
me too...........
@@luyjluyj Your scapula should follow the movement of your arm, just like the axles of your car follow the movement of your steering wheel. Imagine if a mechanic told you the axles of your car should be fixed in one position, but simultaneously have the ability to turn your wheels in every other direction. You'd say he's an idiot. Same goes for shoulder movement.
Your arm can move independently of the scapula only to a certain point. After that, you need the appropriate scapular movement if you want any normal range of motion.
Mohamed Mansour my concern is I got rotator cuff tear and I'm wondering if I got it from keeping my scapula back and down while doing bench press like mostly everybody tells you to do when you do that maybe you're over stressing tendons or ligaments because your scapula is not following your arm what's your take?
David Clark
Also straight up and down bar path while maintaining cross shape arms/body(that’s the best I can describe it, too bad CZcams doesn’t support pics in the comment section,) is a big contributing factor. That stretches your shoulders, bicep tie-in, and chest out in a bad way. So yeah, I’d check out videos on bar path by people/channels you trust, and check out your bar path!
May the Schwartz be with you!
Bench press, rows, shoulder exercises...........how should we do them.
so what should we do instead? should we just pull back , without going down? or should we do shoulder shrugs?
Hi ! Thanks for the info. Could you do a video that explains how then, if you have rounded shoulders and lifter scapula at rest, you roll them back to neutral position and you train your body to keep it that way
How will i drag things behind me? Like a sled, wagon, or a branch for firewood, or some carcass I may have found or hunted ? I could drag it it walking backwards but then I cant see where Im going...
Can you give a bit more info on better cues? This was informative but I am now feeling a bit lost on what to do properly. Thanks!
Book a session
I have torn labrums in both of my shoulders as well as two disc herniations in my lower back from sports related injuries. My trainer used the back and down cue with me and every ounce of pain has been relieved from my injuries and I am able to wrestle and part-take in body building with no problems. Not to mention my posture is now textbook. If you learn how to use scapular retraction the right way by initiating movement with your trapeziums, rhomboids, and lattisimus Dorsi muscles, you are going to be safe using the back and down method. All it takes is a little muscle awareness. It is the proper joint placement that our body was made for. This cue also minimizes your chances of having back and shoulder injuries as well as giving you CRAZY progress in the gym when used correctly. I have been using this technique for three years and have never experienced any kind of “muscle weakness” or “nerve damage”. My trainer is a professional body builder and he has lived by this cue for 10+ years. You obviously lack the experience. This is by far the LEAST bullshit cue out there. Get your facts straight and stop throwing this kind of garbage on the internet.
U lyin
The shoulder is the most mobile joint in the body i dont think you should have your scapula fixed at all times this could be used as a compensation technique but will not address the reason you are feeling pain and it doesnt teach you proper movement in all patterns if you have two torn labrums you need a lot more than down and back for your shoulders lol
@@jesus97640 what does he need then? I wanna know because i will stop using the cue
@@sillyme2598 regain control and stability of the glenohumeral rhythm through all ranges of motion
He is not saying that it’s always bad ,you can use it as an exercise but ofc not as an All day posture Que
Hi,
And what if we only retract back our shoulder ("squeezing together" the scapulas in other words), without the "down" motion, could it help to cure Thoracic outlet syndrome, in addition with strenghtening the upper traps ?
Cordially
It's not optimal but not detrimental either
Just wondering... what if you are doing yoga or dance or ballet or any high mobility performance. If the muscles are strong enough - in this case the scalenes and traps, the extra streches cand be done without compression? Thnx!
Do you know the work of doctor Evan Osar ? Only a few people understand the proper structure of the body, particularily scapular kinematics. Thank you for promoting this idea ;)
Yea, he follows Osar's work. It's a shame not many people understand how scapular mechanics work. If you say this to a powerlifting, bodybuilding, weightlifting, or rehab community, you'll be crucified like crazy.
So how would you bench press ?
Let te protraction hapen, pectoralis is interal rotator..with internal rotation comes protraction and supination which can be done with dumbells.
@@OMAR-vk9pi why not
Interesting-I think I may have injured my rotator by doing too much “down and back” which often felt like I was jamming my humerus back into the shoulder socket, especially if I did any benching wider than shoulder grip. It is also hard to fully contract your pecs if you can’t move your shoulder forward during the movement. Perhaps a more natural, intuitive approach would be better? Thx.
This back and down has fucked my back so hard
this would very much explain the odd pain I had in my general upper chest area when performing machine shrugs, the handles were out to the side a bit more than usual and whenever i lowered my shoulders and stuck my chest out the pain would be there, especially with the weight in my hands. I understand that loading the arms while they're behind you could cause impingement and can crush the nerves, but would completing a Lat Pulldown with the chest out forward and elbows far back and down (full scapular retraction) cause the same nerve crushing? after all you are puling the weight from the opposite direction
retracting your scapulae does not crush your brachial plexus.
Depressing does
Been benching scap back and down since the early 90’s. Pre 90’s I could not bench more that 3 plates. Since 90’s till now benching 4 and a half plates. I’m now 60 and still benching heavy with no shoulder issues. If I did bench flat my shoulders would have been mush by now. The secret is use the larger muscles to lift not the smaller ones inside the shoulder. Take advice from a lifetime strong natty bencher in his 6th octet.
So, high row or lower trap pulldown are dangerous exercises on the long haul ? Besides these, what do you think of "basic" rowing exercises (with arms close to body) ? Are they bad for shoulder's health ?
Thank you for your thoughts
That's what I was wondering too.
No, they're not dangerous. Just pull the shoulders to neutral or slight retraction with some upward rotation involved. Otherwise you'll just promote scapular anterior tilt and excessive humeral extension.
I wish I could get to Norway to come see you!
I knew it, that's why when I stretched my scapular I started to have breathing difficulties and started to have heart problems. I thought it was acid reflux, but it wasn't it was just me who stretched wrong. When I life my shoulders up I feel soo much better. However, at first my heart did start beating weird but after a while it is gone.
Yes
@@MSKNeurology I am truly grateful for this information. Just a question when I lift my shoulders up do I need to lift it up and than pull it back? Or just lift it up? I did the thing where you had a rubber band and strength trained the shoulders, but I wasn't 100% sure on if I was doing it correctly. Like if I just do it in a motion where y shoulders are lifted up and than pulled back or pulled back and than lifted up or just lifted up?
This is competently opposite to what I've heard thousand of times....interesting. Can you please record a video on how push up and bench press should be performed without retraction and depression of scapula?
I have a military press video. I'll try to make a bench video asap. people been whining for one for two years now
@@MSKNeurology Can't wait :)
Are you doing these videos because you want to educate and help people or because we are whining about wanting them?
Is the video coming ?
So the correct method is scapuls Not back and down ? Just scapula back ?
think posterior tipping over retraction.
am sure this is the cue for dips and pullups. If not to be done, how to do these two exercises?
Horrible cue
@@MSKNeurology can to tell us what to change?
So should i pull the scapula during pull-ups?
Would be intresting if you should discuss this with andrew lock, one of the very best (strenght) sport fysiotherapist. You have totally completly opinions about this while both having all the knowledge in the world to discuss it. But fact is that Sebastian Orebs, the best strenght coach in the world, is a huge fan of this technique and while he gets the best results in the world all of hes students never have any injury
I think the points made here speak for themselves. That said, I don't really care if people choose to follow my advice or not. It's free, you take it or you leave it.
Yeah. Omitting the backward pull, pulling the scapula down would only be productive if you were upside down. Standing on your two feet, gravity is already pulling your scapula down. However if the movement is there it must have a purpose, for example in a pull up the scapula is pulled down. Our arms have evolved to be extremely mobile compared to the stability our legs have evovled
I have bad posture and when I fix my posture with a wall my scapula moves in the way you are showing. How can I have good posture without moving my scapula like that? I think I have a little of hyperkyphosis 🤔
this probably applies to the push up too, but does it apply to the deadlift/pull up/chin up/etc?
It does.
A tiny bit of depression of the shoulders can be good though it seems, but not much at all.
From my understanding with the deadlift, it's also just a very subtle depression of the shoulder when bent over, and the rest is just hanging arms.
Some interesting videos are on Eugene Teo's channel, one is the bench press one if you search for that (there's only 1, he doesn't like barbells so yea), and the other is "I learn how to deadlift".
I have cervical stenosis, that down and back shit kills my neck. I've been pulling from neutral a lot less aggravating to my stenosis. Any advice with working out with cervical stenosis?
OK so this is going to sound like weirdness but it's a serious question: how then to wipe the backside after going to the bathroom? I would always reach around the back to wipe because it's safer for women in keeping germs away from our front parts. But lately I have a neck and shoulder situation of pulling pain and nerve pain (which I am working on correcting with a proper pillow etc. I probably need to see a therapist but I'm scared to) and it feels awful to wipe that way now. I'm just going from the front, leaning forward and being careful. Should I continue to avoid reaching around the back altogether in the future? Because I noticed you mentioned that type of movement and said, how often do we do that? I thought oh no, I was doing that every day in the bathroom for years.
Wiping your ass would be a legitimate exception to the rule. That said, if you sidebend along with the arm, that'll help. It is also not a very long-lasting nor vigorous activity and thus, chances are that you're gonna be just fine.
Your point, that the physiotherapists are simplifiyng scapular movements is very interesting. However I have a Problem when doing push ups, which is my left shoulder blade collapsing when pushing up from the ground. I was told to depress and retract my scapula with a raised arm to train the shoulder blade attachment. Whats would be your solution to this. The right scapula instead is doing great job. And what about doing rowing exercises? Should I only depress or retract scapula, but not doing both?
Read my scapular dyskinesis article
when i squat near the end of my set i'll start feeling my hand/pinky start tingling. is this a symptom of everything being crushed together like he said?
Yes
@Westward Thinking so how should you place your shoulders during a squat?
@Westward Thinking so almost try to shrug the weight up?
I'm having a bit of problem of understanding how the scapula should naturally move. In particular with bodyweight excercises. I'm cracking this and trying to understand it for 1 weak but I guess I need a bit of help.
So, if I got it right, the general idea in locking scapulas in a certain position is that it should be locked ONLY in one plane, and be able to move in a perpendicular plane? E.g., if you depress your scapulas, the forward/backward movement must be allowed; if you retract your scapulas, the up/down movement should be allowed. But never lock in both of the planes, right?
Not to mention back and down will compressed the back ribcage and overextend the thoracic spine. This restricts expansion of the ribcage when breathing which inhibits the diaphragm, causing rib flare and anterior pelvic tilt, core muscle imbalances and excess intraabdominal pressure. Pelvic floor issues in women are a common result too.
I don't agree with this
All that was great about telling us what Naoat to do. But you didn’t tell us WHAT to do. Everyone can point out problems. But the best point out problems AND present solutions
See my other videos or read my articles
incredible... i have a compression injury on one shoulder and pinch in the coracoid.. yes injury induced...HOWEVER i do get a slight pinch on the other uninjured shoulder.. now i know why, since i have been doing my shrugs rolling back.... NO MORE
See my impingement videos
I injured my spine for weeks listening to the same thing, just so i can even out my pecs. I thought something was wrong with me but my spine was just hurting from the "scapula retraction ".
What is the proper cue boss?
But if you don't pack your shoulders how do we do bench presses or other exercises without injuring our shoulders?
Tbh why even bench? I feel like the overhead press is a much better exercise in all departmens, for aesthetics, for atheletics, core work and more kinetic chain.. I substitute bench press with tons of pushups and dips where my capula can move more freely, feels like more natural pushing exercises
i kind of agree because most movements of the body is natural and needs no cues, so should we need a cue for scapula. maybe we should just be natural
How do you pull up then?
If im on a diet of pullups, dips and push ups should i follow ur technique or i can back and down my scapula on push pull movement without getting and injury ?
Srs
Could this potentially mean that foam rolling the upper back would also compress the nerves in this way?
Nah
Does this apply to pull ups ?
i find that i deadlift much more weight with much less pain when I lock my scapula down to my backpocket. When your scapula is closer to your hip it is a much safer lift with much more leverage. I also much more power benching when i bring my shoulders down and back. Correct benching involves the bar being nipple height when bar hits chest. How do you expect to be at nipple height when you have scapula slightly elevated?
Good luck with that
@@MSKNeurology this is a serious question how do you expect someone to actively keep there shoulders slightly up and back? Is that not an unnatural position? Aren't you supposed to just keep your shoulders on the "shelf"
In the deadlift the shoulders should come up and forward. In squat back and up (HARD), in bench, it's more like a lat spread. It really depends on what you are doing. I will make a video on this eventually. In general, NEVER pull back and down. This is a stress test for costoclavicular compression.
Natural position depends on movement of the humerus and the notion that "back and down" is natural is an extreme fallacy with no grounds in sensible anatomical nor biomechanical understanding.
Scapular movement is complicated! Don't buy into the "simple fix" bullshit that you are being told.
I am not going back and forth on this. Wait for the video if this answer did not satisfy you.
It would have been better if you had clarified for your viewers. The scapular retraction cue is intended for and appropriate for those who need postural correction of a protracted and downwardly rotated scapular, which is most of our shld impingement patients. Your blanket statements will mislead some of your viewers.
So if I have forward head and rounded shoulders, should I just stretch and it gets better on its own?
When did I ever say that?
I dont understand.. how do I do if Im doing a ring row on my gymnastic rings?
Also I have Ankylotis Spondylatis or atleast some symptoms. My spine is sticking out alot when im bending forward , it also shows alot on my upper back and neck. These vertebrae or What they are called.
Is it normal to feel your shoulders are forward in this posture even though they are not with a mirror check.
Yes
ty for the video! i'm not able to download the articles, showing an error. is there another way we can access them? ty in advance
Nonsense
@@MSKNeurology oh it's up! i think i just had bad internet connection lol
What about doing bench press exercises? Cable cross press?
I'm so confused😭🙏🏼 ,
I'm trying to fix my impingement and get back to pressing exercises again in a safer way.
You should probably isolate your external rotators
When I do handstands and push-ups, I get terrible pain in trapezius muscles and the sub occipital muscles...why is that? I want to keep doing my work outs.
Film yourself and check your scapula position