Creating the Spoilboard Surfacing Toolpath
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Creating the Spoilboard Surfacing Toolpath
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The website article that accompanies this video can be found here:
marklindsaycnc.com/index.php/2...
In this video, I’ll show you the steps I went through to create a spoilboard surfacing toolpath in Vcarve Pro.
It looks and sounds intimidating to some, but it’s actually quite easy, as long as you remember a couple of things.
As usual, if you have any comments or questions, please put ‘em in the comment section below.
Thanks for watching!
Links to products and supplies used or discussed in this video:
Freud 1-1/4" Diameter Mortising Bit (16-106): amzn.to/2QySKNh
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This video is for informational and entertainment purposes only. - Jak na to + styl
your videos are a godsend for cnc beginners such as myself! building a partially 3d printed cnc (rs-cnc32) with my buddy and your vids have been extremely helpful, thanks!
You are one of the best ive seen at clearly explaining what you mean and how to accomplish a job!! You are someone to admire!!
Thank you so much for this! Been researching and trying to learn how to flatten slabs for a day or two now and no one went basic enough for me who is completely new to CNC. this was a LIFESAVER! Awesome stuff and great step by step. Thank you for putting in the time and effort to put this up!! Cheers.
Mark, this is another awesome video. I am a fanboy because you keep the time start to finish in a manageable amount for me!
I just upgraded to a new machine. had the old one for 3 years, time for a new one. Follow all of your videos. I went back and reviewed your videos on "Tramming " and "Creating the Spoilboard Surfacing Toolpath". Picked up lots of usefu,l new information, and things I had forgotten from both videos. It is also good to go back and review. Keep the videos coming.
Thanks
Bob
I’ve watched several of your videos and must say they are a pleasure to watch! You get straight to the subject at hand in a precise manner that doesn’t include a lot of extraneous crap that has no bearing.
Great job!!
Thank you very much! That's the magic of editing. If I could learn how to do that in real life, I'd be all set...
More than 3 years later that you uploaded this video, now I am seeing your detailed step by step to get as new my Spoil board Surfacing. Is spectacular for me. Thanks a lot for your kind help to us. Greetings from argentina.
By far the best tutorial video hands down, you made this process look so easy. I just finished surfacing my spoilboard using your technique and it’s absolutely perfect. Thank you so much!
I bought a Legacy 3X5 machine and their videos and customer support files are a joke compared to how you lay things out Mark. Your info has really saved me on lots of headaches. You are going to heaven!
I'm a newbie, I got my machine Dec 2017. Your video clearly shows how to surface a spoil board. Learned a lot from this video. Thank You.
Thank you very much for watching.
Thank you for the video Mark. It addressed my concerns with switching the surfacing direction by 90 degrees and when to outline.
Thanks - your tutorials are like finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! I am not new to CNC having had my first commercial one in 1987 but sold the cabinet making business in 1997. The commercial ones still had to be programmed but were in a lot of ways simpler (and less capable) than the current desktop ones. I have an X50 Journeyman on order and will be using VCarve Pro so am watching all of your videos. The learning curve is significants so I hope I haven't left my run too late (i'me 77)!
Old video I know Mark but I followed your tramming and surfacing process and got zero shingling. I have a much smaller CNC with a 12 x 24 work surface but yeah, it came out great.
Should have done this a while ago. Thanks
Thanks for all your help.
Great tutorial, thanks so much for taking the time to make it.
Thank you! I hope it helps!
Never even thought about limit switches and such to do the surfacing, glad I know now, thank you.
Nice done and very informative Mar! Thankyou for your time and effort with this.
Being new to all of this I will being watching your other videos.
Thanks very much! Glad it helped you out!
man you are the best at this! i learned everything from you!
Thanks Mark Great Job. I learned many good things about V-carve Pro.
Thank you, Mike!
Great information Mark. Thanks for making this video.
Thanks for watching, Paul!
Well done sir. Will continue watching.
Thank you!
Awesome Video Mark Thanks.
Mark, you are awesome. I’m a CNC newbie. Yesterday I tried a couple time to run a surfacing toolpath but kept ending up with missed areas on the perimeter. So this morning I sat down and searched for a demo on surfacing. Took the time to watch your lesson and now I know what I did wrong and how to do it right. You are a great instructor, I wish you gave CNC and vCarve lessons in my local area! Guess I’ll have to settle for watching your channel.
Thank you, Adam! I'm glad you found it useful!
Another great lesson, thank you.
Great teaching and presentation! Thanks!!
Great video. Thanks Mark.
Mark, I find yor videos the best I have found. I have started on "part 1 for beginners" and working myself through each one. I am a Mac user and watch your videos on the Mac.
Side by side I have a PC running VCarve Pro. I have been creating your video samples on the PC as I watch the video. I put your video on pause and go to the PC and create what you just demonstrated. If my testing on the PC does not work out the same as your video, I go back to the Mac , backup the video and compare to see what I have done wrong and correct it that then continue on. I am a newbie and expect to recieve my Onefinity the first part of January. You videos are a TREASURE. Thank you very much. You have helped me eliminate a lot of the "fear" of trying to learn things by myself. THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
Thank you very much for this comment. YOU are exactly the type of person I do this for. YOU are the reason this channel exists. YOU are the reason I keep making videos and holding Live Q&A sessions. Keep at it, and remember that this isn't a race. You WILL get there if you keep working with the software, learning from your mistakes, (and you WILL make mistakes,) and enjoying your successes. There's no replacement for experience, and the only way to get that experience is to do it. Keep going, and good luck!
Excellent presentation. Very helpful. and appreciate your excellent diction. (Some have a way with words and some ... not have way ;)
I just learned about 30 things about v-carve watching this video!!! Thank you Mark!!!
Thanks for watching, Jake! I'm still using VCarve Pro version 8.5, so some of the screens may be a bit different from the latest release, but the majority of them should be the same. I'll be upgrading to version 9 after the holidays, and I can't wait.
Mark Lindsay CNC I haven’t upgraded either.. I guess I should.. lol
This is perfect, just the information I needed. I'm using Carvco but I'm assuming a similar process. This is actually going to be the first job I run on my new Proverxl 6050 others than some testing I have already done. You have a new sub with me ! Wish me luck...Cheers from Utah !
Thanks Mark... Well done. Much appreciated.
Thank you for checking it out! I hope it helps!
Awesome video mark
Thanks!
Another Great Video Mark!
Thank you very much! I hope it helps you out!
Great explanation thanks
Great video Mark thanks allot
You saved the day... thanks.
Hope it helps you out!
Great job your the best
just what i was looking for.Thanks
Hope it helps you out.
sure does thanks , and i enjoy all the vids from you dave and javi its been a great help. I don't own a gatton or garage works but will get a garage works soon, i have by luck a 3020, 3040, an intellicarve 1013, a 6040 cnc. received all but the intellicarve from people who gave up on the chinese cnc they crap but i replaced motors and mx3660 leadshines in all of them they work great now. i also built a hobby cnc 12x24 its not bad either. done all of this within the last year. now i need something bigger i will end up with a garage works in the future.
Great video again Mark. You mention something called tinkering (?) in the video. Where can I learn more about that? Thanks again.
I am loving your stuff as I am a rookie here. So setting up my spoilboard cut file you have the option of 2D view control....I have no such option...so I am stumped and good thing I saved my initial file and offset......I am stumped
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're asking me. Could you explain a bit further please?
Great video. I have VCarve Pro. Would you explain how to change the feed speed while cutting.
Thank you in advance.
Great tutorials, Thank You!
I’m having a problem with my perimeter cut. I cut my mine last after the raster cut. With the raster cut, it is perfectly trammed. You cant feel any ridges between passes in either direction. However, my perimeter cut always cuts lower on the right side of the table and tapers up to the left side. I end up with a spoil that is perfectly flat and a strip, roughly 0.020 deep down the right side. (Only the width of one pass). The top and bottom edges fade from this groove up to full height on the left. Anyone have any ideas? I don't know what I'm missing?
Mark I can’t thank you enough for what you do with all your videos. I’ve gone to CNC classes and paid lots of money and they didn’t even scratch the surface. I stumbled across yours by mistake somehow I don’t know and I can’t seem to get enough of your lessons. I have one question in reference to your surface board bit. I’m trying to follow step-by-step in your tutorials. I would like to use the same bit that you use. Could you please put a link on your surfacing bit that you use. Thank you again for all your work that you share
Thank you for the kind words, Joseph. I really do appreciate it. I thought i had put a link to the bit I used to surface the spoilboard in the description of this video, but I hadn't. (It turns out, I had linked it in the video prior to this one.) I've fixed that, and you'll now find a link to the bit I used in the description. You can use any surfacing bit you choose, as long as the shank will fit your collet - you don't specifically have to use the bit I used. I used this Freud bit because I already had it, and it worked very well for me.
Mark, thanks for your excellent explanation.
I'm mystified why had you used a Y offset of -.1115 and an X offset of -.174 when you first created the square. Despite having stated you had set it to anchor on the centre, that wasn't the case; it was offset. Regardless, you corrected it before moving on, by using the Alignment Tool feature.
Again, thanks for the great video.
Anchoring the rectangle by the center does just that; it anchors the center of the rectangle. It doesn't anchor the center of the rectangle to the center of the material. That's why I went back and aligned it.
Another great video. On my machine x is long axis, y shorter. T tracks are parallel to y. So I should raster along y axis? Using 1/2 inch mdf between t tracks now, but thinking of going to 3/4 inch. (easier to get out in the county).
In the case of surfacing your spoilboard, you can raster in any direction you'd like. I machined in the direction I did for my convenience - it really doesn't matter all that much. What matters is that your dust collection hoses, water-cooling hoses, or electrical cords/cables are free to follow the router/spindle, and won't get caught on anything overhead or pull tight, as surfacing the spoilboard will take the router/spindle into places it usually won't go under normal operation.
Great
Hi Mark, I would like to know if the size of my workpiece has any effect on cnc bit speed & feed rates. I have an NWA Shark II that has a usable XYZ of 13x25x7, I am not trying to cut anything bigger than this and most of what I do now are Vcarve signs and 3D stuff. I use VCarve desktop.
Thanks for any knowledge you can help me with.
The short answer is no, the size of the project doesn't have anything to do with feed rates or router/spindle speeds. The material type, depth of cut, and bit used will dictate that.
I know this video is old but it's a great video. I just completed surfacing my new spoil board using your method. Being a woodworker, I know that wood swells, twists and warps due to stresses in the wood, humidity and a bunch of other reasons. How do you make sure the stock piece you're using for a carve is flat as well? Do you run a surfacing gcode file for the wood piece you're using or rely on a planer or a drum sander or some other method before securing it to your CNC bed? Thanks!
Thank you, Rob. I check over the piece with a straightedge first to see if it even needs surfacing. If it does, I use several methods, including using my planer, a friend's drum sander, and occasionally running a surfacing pass on the CNC. It just depends on the piece and the project. On some projects, there's so much of the surface being machined away, I don't bother with even checking it out. I just mount it and start cutting.
@@MarkLindsayCNC Thanks Mark!
Yet another awesome video Mark! BTW my machine doesn't go yin yin but it goes yan yan? Should i still adjust my speeds??? LOL
Could be the left side deltonator isn't meshing with the thermo-mogrifier when it syncs up with the arndulation damper. I'd tear it all down and start over, Lyle. But that's just me...
Thanks for watching! :D
Ok Thanks... Done... oops looks like i'm buying Christmas presents this year :( LOL
Getting ready to surface my spoilboard for the first time. I'm so nervous!
Just double-check your measurements, make sure you have the X Y zero location correct, and go for it! You got this!
Great video. I am having a bit of an issue. When I create the tool path it creates 2 not just one? Also, when I run the tool path in the preview I made the tool path blue but nothing happens?? Any ideas?
Thank you, Richard! If you can, please shoot me a message through the Contact Us link at my website. That's the best way to get into this. marklindsaycnc.com/
Good video, but I was a little confused. You show T-tracks on your surface, so I don't know if you surfaced the board before you installed the T-tracks or after? Do you have a video on how you installed the T-tracks? Thanks
I surfaced the spoilboard long after I installed the t-tracks. That video is the one just before this one. Here's a link: czcams.com/video/ddyGvHG6cwo/video.html
mark, what is a good speed and ramp length for a 1" surfacing bit as well as stepover to surface spoilboard of mdf
If the surfacing bit doesn't have a cutting edge all the way across the bottom, ramp in at least the bit's diameter. I prefer to ramp in 1.5 times the diameter, but I'm just very cautious. I run a 45% stepover on my surfacing toolpath. It takes a little bit longer, but I get a better finish, and that's what this is all about. Likewise, I use a slower than normal feed rate - somewhere around 40 ipm. Your machine will determine that - there are a lot of variables.
First!!!!!!! Hahaha well done Mark you said limit switch 128 times. Lol.
Ken
Yes, but how many times did I say it correctly?
Thanks for watching, Ken!
Mark I am watching your this video and a this point you just created the cut rectangle. You set X to add .25 and then you set the Y to add .5 could you tell me why you used 2 different numbers. Jeff
I needed to make sure the bit cut well off the spoilboard, so it didn't leave the corners uncut. I couldn't go more than .25 off the edge in X without getting too close to the metal rail. I went .5 off the front and rear edge to make up for that. It was all just to make sure I got the corners of the spoilboard cut.
Hey Ya'll, Is the bit going along "centered" on the first outside toolpath, therefore (using your example #s) actually cutting 3/8" into board? (1.25" bit/2 minus 1/4" relief in toolpath from board) I have to ask since I don't know if Vectric is applying your 40% stepover on first cut, and it determines my needs for a 2" surfacing bit. Thanks Mark!
Yes, the software is applying the 40% stepover to every cut - including the first, outside toolpath.
Hey Mark, do you need to surface your sacrificial board ? Thank you !
Yes sir! That's what this video is all about. The spoilboard I surfaced in this video is my sacrificial spoilboard.
new to this . just built a Bobs E-4, my surfacing bit does not reach the spoilboard, and extensions dont have good reviews. How do I get over this?
I would join the official Bobs CNC Facebook group and ask over there. I have o experience at all with a Bobs CNC, so I would only be guessing. Here's a link! facebook.com/groups/441214202884765/
Mark, can you explain the "Pass Depth" setting in your tool database. Is there a recommended setting for this depending on what tool you're using? You have it set to .4 I don't understand how this number is determined.
A conservative rule of thumb is to set the Pass Depth at 1/2 of the bit's cutting diameter on MOST bits. Not all of them work out that way. The bit I used for this video was new to me when I made it a few years back, and I hadn't learned its capabilities at the time. I have since changed the Pass Depth of that bit to .1 inches to make it a bit easier on the router and the bit's shank. For purposes of this video, I wasn't machining off anywhere near .1 inches of material, so the Pass Depth was never really relevant.
@@MarkLindsayCNC Thank you for explaining!
Hi Mark, great video and very informative. I followed it religiously step by step, but you didn't show or mention how to modify the cutting file if there WAS material left at the corners. I assume that it is easy to change but being a newbie I had to start over. Please note that this is meant as constructive criticism.
No worries, Barry. I thought I had mentioned it in the video. If you have material left in the corners in the preview, make the rectangle slightly longer or wider (or both) to remove the material, then recalculate the toolpath. Start by increasing the length and width of the rectangle by the diameter of the bit, recalculate, then preview. Keep doing that until the material is machined away, then save the g-code. I hope that helps.
Thank you for watching!
@@MarkLindsayCNC Hi Mark,
Thank you so much for your response. You DO state in the tutorial that it is necessary to amend the size of the rectangle, but you don't show HOW to do it. Being around 75% through the process do I have to start over from scratch to amend the size or do I jump to a previous screen? I know this will be obvious in a couple of months but right now I'm on a steep learning curve.
Okay, no problem. Just go back to the 2D view, go back to the Drawing tab, select the rectangle, click the Set Selected Object Size icon and change the size of the rectangle there. Make sure to anchor the rectangle in the center, then change the width or length of the rectangle as needed. If you need to change both, uncheck the link X Y box, then make the changes. Click APPLY, then close. Then go over to the Toolpaths tab and click the Recalculate All Toolpaths icon, and preview the toolpath. Repeat if you need to.
@@MarkLindsayCNC Hi Mark,
That description is just what I needed. Thank you very much for your time - it is much appreciated. As soon as I have my spoil board sorted I'll proceed through your other videos as I find your style very informative and easy to follow. Many thanks again for all your input on this fascinating subject.
You're welcome, Barry. If I may, I'd like to suggest that you check out my series on the Vectric titles for the Absolute Beginner. I go over all of the questions you've asked within that series a few times as I introduce tools, techniques, and methods. I try to gear the videos to the person who has never done anything like this before, but even experienced users have told me that they pick up tips and tricks in most of the videos. Go to my main channel page by clicking my name, then click the Playlist tab. You'll find a play list titled CNC for the Absolute Beginner - it contains all of the videos in the series. Good luck!
Could you explain what the pass depth is and why the pass depth is 0.40 inches? Is seems that the cut depth of 0.020 inches is in Z, so this doesn't make sense to me.
The Pass Depth and the Cut Depth both have to do with the Z axis, but they are 2 different things. The Cut Depth is how deep I want the bit to cut into the material in this specific toolpath. The Pass Depth is the maximum depth the bit is allowed to ever cut in 1 single pass. In this example, if I wanted to machine away .75 inches of material, the bit would have to make a minimum of 2 passes, because the Pass Depth is limited to .4 inches. The Pass depth varies with each bit, but the standard rule of thumb is that it should be no more than 1/2 of the bit's cutting diameter. For example, I have my Pass Depth set to .125 inches on all of my .25 inch end mills. I'll talk about this further in this coming Sunday's Live Q&A, at Noon Pacific Time, 3pm Eastern Time. See you there! czcams.com/video/5GUSp_mA_0Q/video.html
Why is it that you chose climb cutting for this, as opposed to conventional?
No particular reason, other than climb cutting is the preferred way to carve just about anything.
can you surface your spoiler board with a 1/4 endmill (downcut) or a 1/2 straight cut, as i do not have a surfacing bit. I know it will take more time, but I am living in Ireland and they do not seem to have any surfacing bits here and need to get something done on my cnc yesterday. thanks.
Yes, you certainly can. As you said, it'll just take more time as the stepover should be set to about 40%-45% of your bit's cutting diameter. If you decide to use the straight bit, remember to ramp in the plunge move over a distance of twice the bit's cutting diameter. I wouldn't use the downcut bit as it'll leave a rougher surface. An upcut or straight bit would be preferred.
I will use the 1/2” straight bit. So, under toolpaths, check the ramp plunge moves, and insert something like 1.01, which is just over twice the cutting diameter. Thank you for your great you channel, but also the speed of which you responded to my message😊
Your comment popped up just as I happened to sit down at the computer. I'm usually not that quick - ask anyone - lol. A 1 inch ramp will be fine. Good luck!
Hey mark! why you start on the center of your material and not at the corner as usual?
Thanks
For this project I was still testing my machine. I had just finished building it, this was the first real toolpath I ran on it, and I was still getting things settled in. I was a bit concerned that I had gotten the size of the toolpath correct, so I thought that I had better take a more cautious approach. By starting from the center, I figured I'd at least get the majority of my spoilboard surfaced before I crashed it - lol.
@@MarkLindsayCNC I see ahah thanks! Cause ill need to surface my spoil board for the first time, but i would like to start the job on the very down corner, but I concern about the fact that on aspire if i set the precise sizes, the machine will leave the corners as you mentioned on the video above. But in other hand if I set, on aspire, a oversized material,, then when probing the machine it will not reach 100% the full spoilboard. I´m a bit confused actually lool
Set your toolpath to do the Profile Pass Last, then you'll get the whole spoilboard surfaced. If it doesn't get all of the corners, you can go back and make the pocket a little bit larger, then change the Profile Pass to FIRST. Then when you run the toolpath, it will cut the outline of the spoilboard first. When it finishes cutting that outline, stop the toolpath and see if it got those corners. If not, repeat the process, making sure you keep the Profile Pass set to First.
Hi Mark, I could have sworn you did a spoilboard grid marking video, but bugger me if I cant find it!... please help
I'm sorry to say, Gary, that it wasn't me. There are quite a few videos out there about marking out a grid on your spoilboard, but I've never done one. Thanks for checking out the videos!
@@MarkLindsayCNC cheers for the reply and thank you very much for making your videos… they are brilliant!!
I notice that you are using a router for a spindle. My new machine came with a 400 watt spindle along with the mount for a router. Would you change out for the router. I got a lot out your video, keep it up. Jon
I would follow your CNC manufacturer's instructions/recommendations. If it came with a router mount, see if you can determine what diameter of router body it was made for, then look for a router that size. 400 watts translates to a little more than 1/2 hp, so you might be able to swap the spindle out for a 1 hp trim router. Do keep an eye on the weight of the router, however. The CNC gantry may or may not be rigid enough to handle it. Also know that routers have a more limited speed range than a spindle typically does. Again, check the manufacturer's recommendations.
@@MarkLindsayCNC I have a Makita router which is 64 to 65 mm. The extra mount provided is for the Makita router and per their instructions the mount is designed to handle it or a larger spindle size. As you probably guessed I’m new to this and so far only have made small things as well as leveling the spoil board.
Then you should be fine. Do know that after you mount the router, you'll need to adjust tram and level your spoilboard again. Here's how I did mine: czcams.com/video/NvT3qj4B5DA/video.html
Does the wasteboard need to be MDF or can I use other particle board?
The spoilboard (waste board) can be anything you'd like. Most folks go for MDF because it's fairly cheap, easy to cut, and will hold threaded inserts and other fasteners (like screws) much better than particle board will.
@@MarkLindsayCNC OK thank you.
Mark i have followed this utube for 3 times step by step it was great BUT when i loaded the file in gsender the only thing that happens is the bit will go down but just sits there and the screen shows the bit spinning with nothing else. i have a longmill 30x30 and have no idea what it going on. this the first file i have written and not having a fun time with my new macnine could you please contact me and give a little to this old man (80 years oid and a long time woodworker) starting a new business for my grandson and need a lot of help.. Thanks
I'm sorry, Steve, but I don't know anything about the Longmill or the GSender software. I would suggest you go to the Sienci Labs website (sienci.com/) and click the Community link. There you'll find a link to their support forum and a link to their Facebook group. I would ask your questions over there. Those are the people who know your machine and software best, because they use them. I would only be guessing, and I'd hate to send you down the wrong road in an attempt to help.
Thanks Mark. Does this mean that any file I use that you Wright will have the same results. I sure hope not. Thanks ahain
Once you get the issue figured out, you shouldn't have any other problems with that same issue.
Seems like a lot of steps. I just surfaced my 5'x10' cnc with a 1" end mill. Here's how: Create a rectangle, size to 1.75 x 119" and locate to x0/y0. Array vertical 37 times @ 1.6". Path to the inside. I run my spindle around the table while it's running and lower by .010" until it's cutting all the time (to get rid of over deep cuts). I ran it @200ipm and it took about 45 min to complete.
There are always going to be more than one way to accomplish the same goal. Please keep in mind that my videos are geared toward the person who has never done anything like this before, so the methods I tend to choose are chosen so I can explain the "why" as well as the "how." Your method is a perfectly valid way of getting it done. No doubt others have found more efficient ways of doing it that you and I haven't explored yet. My goal is to show folks who are new to this how to take a task like this and break it down to the basic operations needed. If they get that "lightbulb moment" and figure out another way to do it that's more efficient for them like you did , then that's a bonus.
Hard to follow. Can't see your screen for machine entries.
Which machine entries are you looking for? The g-code saved in VCarve is all you need to run the toolpath.
Why do you say 20 thousandths instead of 2 hundredths? Just curious.
Hi Mark - Can I assume that Im safe to use this same process when wanting to surface a piece of job material.
Set up the job material in the centre of the spoil board bed. Enter the dimensions in Aspire New File as 3/8" larger than the actual job material size. Use the Datum centre and then follow the rest of your Tool Path steps?
Thanks John ( if you could reply to my Instagram page then I'm sure to see it) @creationsenbois83
You certainly can. I plan on doing a video on this subject in the future, but you have the gist of it. Measure the length and width of the piece you want to surface, create a vector based on those dimensions that will cover the entire surface you want to cut (I used 3/8 of an inch in the video, but you can use whatever measurement you need to use to ensure you get the corners,) then calculate the toolpaths for the job.
As a side note, I don't use Instagram any more. It just didn't work for me.
spoil allert