Men in Black | When Escapist Movies still had Good Writing
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Men in Black is a remnant of a better era of the summer blockbuster, in particular the writing represents a sort of lost art that few modern blockbusters can rival. Thoughtful intention on the page, with great dialogue and scenes of humor that do far more than just make us laugh.
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Well I didn't expect some of these comments to become focused on such a semantic angle, but for those confused about the usage of the term B-movies: That term doesn't mean what it used to. There are no A and B films anymore, that system faded from use throughout the 70's and 80's. Partially because the whole Double Feature showing became less popular, partly because films on average became more expensive as a whole, and because the schlock entertainment normally used in the B-movie content ended up making even more money than the A-films, so the system just kind of died out, and in many ways gave birth to the modern blockbuster. Just like "indie music" can be expensive, it's more of a term for genre or style than anything else these days. I briefly discuss this at the start of the video, and maybe should have discussed it in further detail, but this is a video that was meant to discuss Men in Black's screenwriting and not the entire thorough history of Hollywood's production over the last century and change, so hopefully that clears that up.
Okay but B-Movies don't HAVE any connecting stylistic tissue from movie to movie, there are reasons why people always refer to b-movies as (genre) b-movies. A horror b-movie isn't even in the same zip code as an action b-movie which isn't at all close to a scifi b-movie. They are wholly determined by budget, their only connecting tissue being that b-movies are at their most enjoyable when they are an examination of an autore (or deranged lunatics) ability to execute their creative visions under financial constraints. It does NOT mean the movie a little quirky with it tho. Also, quit burying the fuckin lede, b-movies STILL exist, just because you can't see anything aside from shadows on a cave wall doesn't mean that they don't still, in all ways but literal name, exist. AND MEN IN BLACK IS NOT ONE OF THEM IT HAS A BUDGET OF ALMOST 100 MILLION DOLLARS AND STARS SOME OF THE MOST FAMOUS ACTORS IN MODERN CINEMA'S HISTORY IN THE HEIGHT OF THEIR CAREERS. B-movie doesn't mean "a movie with style". There *IS* no examination of execution under constraints with this movie because the movie doesn't have fucking constraints.
this is false. B movie is a well known term that everyone agrees on the meaning of, you just messed up and are covering. MIB was never a B movie in any sense of the term. i came here specifically from a screenshot on tumblr to tell you that you are wrong. do better!
@@unlimitedshrimp this entire comment is 100% correct
I've explained this from every angle I can possibly think to, but the ignorance in these comments is unbelievable. As I've mentioned before, if you're struggling to understand this concept, simply reading one singular wikipedia page(and not even the full thing) will clear everything up. But apparently there's just a brigade of you coming from a tumblr post who can't read one single article before commenting their own personal anecdotes as if they are facts. B movies don't exist anymore because the whole A/B production system no longer exists, that's not just some opinion of mine that I'm planting in a video because I feel like it, that's what the reality is. I've posted this before but clearly more people need to see this, but from wikipedia:
"In its current usage, the term has somewhat contradictory connotations: it may signal an opinion that a certain movie is (a) a "genre film" with minimal artistic ambitions or (b) a lively, energetic film uninhibited by the constraints imposed on more expensive projects and unburdened by the conventions of putatively serious independent film. The term is also now used loosely to refer to some higher-budget, mainstream films with exploitation-style content, usually in genres traditionally associated with the B movie."
This is why research is important, like I did to write this video, because facts are your friends in these situations. But rather than want to actually do any research, you just want to be angry online because someone used a phrase that you don't fully understand.
Just gonna keep posting this for those still struggling(from Wikipedia):
"In its current usage, the term has somewhat contradictory connotations: it may signal an opinion that a certain movie is (a) a "genre film" with minimal artistic ambitions or (b) a lively, energetic film uninhibited by the constraints imposed on more expensive projects and unburdened by the conventions of putatively serious independent film. The term is also now used loosely to refer to some higher-budget, mainstream films with exploitation-style content, usually in genres traditionally associated with the B movie."
I'm genuinely curious what this tumblr post is, because there seem to be an awful lot of you coming from the same place, and curiously you all have the same blindspot with this phrase. Maybe instead of taking the time to comment your ignorance on a video that you clearly haven't even watched, maybe do a little reading first and get some actual information, do better!
I watch Men In Black every few years and it always holds up. So many quotable lines, fun set pieces and relatable characters. Such a pity Linda Fiorentino was done dirty by Hollywood, she was so great in this.
And Dogma too! She deserved better for sure
at least l was kept around in the mib cartoon
I don't think nowadays you'd see anyone be allowed to give such an amazingly bizarre villain performance as that of Vincent D'Onofrio's.
Right? He was phenomenal, that performance lives rent free in my head at all times
There is a saying "you have to be really smart to do 'stupid' right" (probably butchered that)
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more, on both of the main points of this video. I miss B-movies that had some depth and actually substance to them. Even when it wasn't immediately apparent, such as with MIB. This for me is exactly what the problem is with all of these remakes/reboots etc. They only focus on the surface level elements of what the original films were about and miss out the nuance that made them great in the first place.
MIB is not a "b movie" lol
Love your work as always, you're the best doing these types of videos imo. Interesting new takes on movies that dont get talked about enough these days. I agree with everything 100 percent, i wish movies looked like movies again too 😢
I truly appreciate that! I just miss when everything wasn't like a video game cutscene lol
Loved this video. The OG film is great. I know that it was probably more because of budget limitations than ambition, but I think it's a real less is more film. The first is mostly filmed on real locations and the whole point is trying not to reveal too much of the alien stuff so it's more subtle and only shows you what it needs to and lets your imagination fill in some of the gaps. The sequels got bigger budgets and tried to do too much or follow cinematic trends incorporating wire-fu (Tommy Lee Jones at one point jumps about 7 feet in the air in 2) and CGI on characters that could've worked without it.
as soon as i hear that theme i start dancing, even after all these years
7:00 The cartoon retcon aside, I think this scene is even more subtle. I'm pretty sure the correct choice is to never shoot, since little Tiffany isn't doing anything overtly hostile. Walking While Smart isn't a crime. J correctly recognizes context and doesn't automatically shoot the "monsters," which is good, but still felt compelled to shoot *something* - hence the worried reaction from Zed.
Plus, I kind of love the implication that the MIBs were knowingly wasting all the military guys' time, since they would never ever be picked. They were basically just there to be NPCs in a game made for J. That's cold.
(Also Ford's "WE - ARE GOING - TO DIE-EE 😡" is one of my all-time favorite line reads in anything ever.)
I absolutely love your vision for these videos Daniel. I know it's hard, but I hope to see more of your takes in the future.
You most certainly will! There are plenty of videos on the way 😊
Ah, the good old days. It's funny that the formula for a popcorn movie hasn't changed in decades, but the the execution has been diluted to piss water. Nice job, this was a fun video.
MIB had a budget of 90 mil in 1997 and involved the top tiers of staff, production, and talent. it was never and is not now anywhere near the category of "B movies". do you also think Ghostbusters is a B movie? Back to the Future? the Neverending Story?
Pretty sure he meant with the plot and story that give b movie shlock with its premise
Great video and excellent insight into what makes a great B-movie. Thanks for continuing to make great posts.
MIB is such a complete movie for me. It's one of those movies that's just pure entertainment from start to finish
Couldn't agree more.
the $90mil budget "b-movie" with Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones! Words have MEANING
This is definitely not a B-movie lol. It had a 90 million dollar budget in 1997. Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith were two of the most famous actors in the world at that time.
Excellent. I saw it in-theaters as a kid and enjoyed it as fun escapism, but over the years I've been surprised at how much it's stuck with me - not just a funny line or a cool action sequence, but its premise, scenarios, characters, gadgets, etc.. Its world: realized, its characters: fleshed-out, its humor: clever. Much hidden depth in MiB.
thankyou Daniel, I agree with you. I recently watched Reality and was awestruck.
Another character moment I like that gets unnoticed is the car birth scene.
There whilst J is "helping" the mom give birth for comedic effect, K is talking to the alien driver. Despite the fact that the alien is fleeing illegally, K treats them with respect and empathy. He isn't rude or aggressive or forceful because he understands that this alien is a good one just trying to live a peaceful life with his family. Instead of arresting him he congratulated them on their child and wished him well. Then with J wondered "what would scare this guy so much he'd be willing to flee Earth with a newborn?"
That scene displayed a lot of K's humanity whilst providing a comedic relief moment with J.
Well done!
MiB 3 was amazing, you hush. But for real, well thought out and enjoyable video. Thanks for sharing.
I like all 3, but the first will always be my favorite. Thanks for watching!
Great dissection
This was great
Omg! A MIB nerd! Thanks for a lovely review. ❤
dog... mib is NOT a b movie, you literally call it a blockbuster in the description.
I discuss this at the very start of the video, but I'm more referring to the B-movie style that's been adopted by most modern blockbusters, rather than the actual studio definition that doesn't even exist anymore.
@@daniel_netzel it's not in the style of B movies either. Im not sure youve actually seen any B movies
@@daniel_netzel oh yeah let's just use words and make up meanings for them. Anyone who disagrees is just a hater right guys?
Well Done!! 👌👏👍
Nice
Men in Black is not a B Movie tho?? What????
A24 Studio Films. Are we a joke to you?
Watched this because of a tumblr post mocking your use of B-movie in the title and I've gotta say, the surface level social media hot take is wrong. This video is great and highlights an issue with modern blockbuster film making that isn't often addressed. You can have comedy without it falling into the awful chasm of bathos. I hope the MCU is taking notes
yeah man good video, ignore the haters and keep making more like this
thanks my dude
@@daniel_netzel honestly might be good getting loads of engagement hahaha
😎🙏💯
Not gonna watch this because I'm done with clickbaity self important film video essays, but please tell me that his man didnt just call a 90 million $ budget movie a b movie
Lmao self important? Just having fun talking about movies. Also I clarify early in the video that a B-movie is a term for the old studio system, where B-movies were cheaper than the A films, but that led to a lot of style and genre work that became mainstream through people like Spielberg and George Lucas. But by all means go off without watching anything beforehand lol 👍
Lol. He basically just explains what a very unsubtle scene is explicitly about like it’s some sort of subtext.
I mean...it is subtext though? Not the most subtle or delicate, but by definition of that word, that's exactly what it is, something that's happening under the surface of what's actually being said. It's not like you have to be a genius to figure this stuff out, but honestly if even paid Hollywood writers don't always understand this stuff, I thought it was fair to assume at least a few people on YT don't yet either, and if nothing else sometimes it's just fun to talk about what makes something good, even in a movie that isn't exactly difficult to understand
came here to say the same thing lol
I can smell your fedora from here, relax.
In an infinite ocean of content that is CZcams, you choose to click on a video that you don't intend to watch, then proceed to insult someone's efforts with statements that are proven to be ignorant in the very video that you didn't watch...that's a brain cell massacre right there. Also, the irony of you calling this video self-important when you feel everyone else needs to hear that you won't be watching, lol, I'll alert CNN.
Bump king
And yet today cinematic creators seem like they prove in the USA that there is too much lead in the drinking water.
Bro do you know what the phrase B-movie means????? Get off the internet.
Do YOU know what the phrase B-movie means? Do yourself a favor and at least skim the wikipedia before leaving a rude comment. The true "B-movie" hasn't existed since the 1970's, when films were still showed as double features and there were a lot of low-budget production houses. Over time, movies got more expensive and people started realizing that the campy escapist schlock that was normally reserved for the b-side of the double feature turned out to be super profitable, so the system has been mostly abandoned since then, but the B-movie lives on in many of the biggest movies we see today, budget having nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Like, this is Men in Black, this is the epitome of a fun midnight movie from the B movie era; a bug walking around in a rotting human suit trying to steal a galaxy that's on a cat's collar. Genuine slapstick humor with some grossout gags, and a bunch of funky aliens, it's got it all.
But damn if I knew half of the comments would be semantic arguments I'd have just used the word blockbuster in the video lol
@@daniel_netzel ok but you're literally saying yourself that MIB isn't a B movie in any sense of the word except perhaps in the same way that human beings are prokaryotes, which is to say not at all, so it sounds like receiving all these negative comments is a You problem. Why wouldn't you just make the title something like 'the legacy of the b movie' instead of completely misrepresenting both your own video and Men In Black?
I am saying that the term doesn't mean what it used to, but that it has survived in spirit, and is still used to describe certain types of movies. Again, a simple search through wikipedia would clarify all of this, but basically the B-movies of yore became the modern blockbuster through people like Spielberg and Lucas, and the eventual decline of the split-tier studio system. So it's not a misrepresentation at all, it's just not a complete history of what the term B-movie means, because that was never meant to be the point of the video, it was just meant to be the jumping off point to discuss what makes Men in Black better than a lot of its modern peers.
I didn't ever think that using the term B-movie would be this contentious, otherwise I wouldn't have written the script this way, but that's why I'm trying to clarify things here in the comments. I'm used to negativity, it doesn't bother me, I'm in my 30's and have been doing this for almost a decade now, I've had far worse. What I don't respond well to is being accused of any kind of misinformation or misrepresentation of my videos, because I actually work quite hard to do neither of those things.
@@daniel_netzelOkay but it seems like what you're trying to do is use the term B movie to imply something about the *content* of the movie, which has filtered down from the b movies of the 70s and affected the content of movies as recently as the 00s, but in actuality most people still know the phrase to mean a cheaply made or low budget movie, which MIB categorically is not. In fact, I suspect if you go and look the phrase up in any dictionary it will agree with what we're trying to tell you.
Perhaps it's not purposeful misrepresentation, but the fact that you refuse to listen to what multiple people are telling you about the definition of the phrase B movie and the way you've used it here suggests that you're not interested in fact, just being right.
I'm interested in not having a glaring mistake in a video that I put on the internet, because that would be embarrassing, but just because a few people share the same opinion, doesn't make it factual? If I knew that some would have taken such issue with such an innocuous thing, I would have written the video differently, but the notion that I'm not interested in facts when I've asked you multiple times to check the source for yourself, is quite amusing.
From the wikipedia:
"In its current usage, the term has somewhat contradictory connotations: it may signal an opinion that a certain movie is (a) a "genre film" with minimal artistic ambitions or (b) a lively, energetic film uninhibited by the constraints imposed on more expensive projects and unburdened by the conventions of putatively serious independent film. The term is also now used loosely to refer to some higher-budget, mainstream films with exploitation-style content, usually in genres traditionally associated with the B movie."
I don't know about you, but I'd rather get my facts from a thoroughly sourced article, than the personal opinion of a few random CZcams commenters.
Nothing against this guy making the video but almost everyday I hear about how these virtual affect artists aren't getting paid enough. I never hear anyone talk about how much they actually make and i could probably think of literally about 1,000 jobs in America that deserve to make more money. Why is everyone feeling so much sympathy for virtual effects artists? I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm genuinely asking.
You're preaching to the choir there, I think most of us are underpaid lol But the reason I talk about the VFX issue here is because I believe it's relevant to the subject, but the same issues apply all over the entertainment industry, especially in video game development lately, with people working under ridiculous conditions without a fraction of the compensation they deserve. VFX artists in particular just have it really rough if you ask me, especially with how much they're relied on for so much of the biggest TV and movies, only to be worked to the bone with constant last minute revisions only for everyone online to criticize the artists for their shabby work when it isn't even their fault.
I love men in black but its hard to watch it after what will smith did in the oscar thanks will you ruined one of my favorite movies
Idk, I didn't view the slap as this unforgivable act, it was undeniably shitty but it hasn't ruined his movies for me like someone like Kevin Spacey
@@daniel_netzel im glad it didnt ruined the film for you its just hard for me to watch his films after what he did
And I think that's fair enough, people often get all worked up about "cancel culture", but people are entitled to feel how they feel about someone, and it's fair for an opinion to change when someone does something shitty.
@@daniel_netzel That slap didn't really have anything to do with Chris Rock, or Will Smith for that matter. It was Jada flexing her manipulative control over Will.
when he defended his wife from a nasty comment with a completely judicious level of force? you mean that incredibly cool thing he did at the oscars that was mocked and punished because hollywood is terrified of Black people expressing appropriate anger?