Short vs. long lines // SA Masterclass
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- What line length should you be riding? I can't tell you, but I can explain the advantages and disadvantages of different line lengths for kiteboarding.
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uncommon subject well covered + answers to all comments with questions = SUBSCRIBED
Awesome to hear that man! Thanks 🙌
Great breakdown Steven, I was using stock 25m lines for ages on my ozone bars, then 24m last season. The goal this year is to go 22m for quicker loops. Thanks.
Sounds like a good plan! I'm sure you'll have a blast trying the 22m lines. Especially for those loops.
Information package damn good!
Happy you like it!
For me, a huge advantage of shorter lines is that you don't need so much space to lay them out for rigging and launching, just like you mention in the end. On my two main spots I can just barely launch with 20m. 15m makes things so much easier even before I get on the water. 25-28m would never work.
It can be a huge advantage! Are you foiling on a lake?
@@stevenakkersdijk No, I kite (foil, twin and directionals) in the swedish archipelago. Lots of rocks, cliffs and small islands. Also trees along the shoreline pretty much everywhere. Just smaller openings for launching here and there. I use 20m as my main set, 15 as a shorter option and 10m for the really tight spots.
Nice man! That's the perfect way to make it work
I've been riding for 15+ years on snow, land and water... been mostly ridding foils lately... people often ask me about short lines ( i prefer long lines most of the time, I love light winds) ... I must say that your views on line length are exactly like mine... I will recommend your video to anyone who wants to know the pros and cons of short lines versus long lines.... Good job... P.S. I once rode 90m lines (snow kiting on a lake), and rode for many years(winter on snow) kites that have only 2m lines( Flex kites)...
Awesome! I've seen the Flex kites for the first time in Canada when I was visiting my girlfriend for the winter season.
Thanks a lot for your comment, super happy you enjoy the video and will even recommend it! Means a lot to me.
Would love to try 90m lines, could even open up some butter flat water spots with ridiculous flight time ;-)
Lessons on 10 and now 22 feels so slow and disconnected, so I’m going to 18 in the hope of some middle ground. Thx for the vid, very well delivered. 🤙
It's super funny what an effect the lines have to the feeling. I also found that riding 22m lines feels so indirect and distant.
18m lines are super fun, you'll just find that jumping high becomes a lot harder and there will be a lot more pull in the loops.
15m and 17 line with my Flysurfer SOUL on twintip. 12m line with VMG and Race Foil setup. I love short line!
Nice! The short lines are for sure a blast. Your race foil setup sounds like fun 🤗
Thanks for sharing some insight on this , great video , I wanna go 10 too 🙈 , I am usually on 20 m and 18 sometimes , hate 22m 🤷🏽♂️ but use them when in need to catch more wind up there 😄
It's my pleasure. 10m lines are fun to ride for the experience, but to be fair it's really really hard and it's only good for loops.
20m lines is my favorite 🔥🔥
Hello Steven what great explonation of the line length variation...
I‘m riding the gts5 and xr6 on 22m lines by really strong winds even I‘m going down to 20m cause I love the explosive turns and jumps... the benefit of the Sensor2S pro bar is a great one to play w/ the line lengths...
What I discovered is also to combine the length with the knots at the kite this is amazing...
That's awesome man! It's exactly why CORE provides the different line lenghts. It's good to hear to people are really playing around with it.
7m neo and 9m dice for bigair, loops = 19m lines
11m+13m dice for freestyle = 22m lines
and i will shorten another 19m bar to 15m +2m+1m for foiling and low loops ;)
That sounds like a mad nice setup! How do you enjoy the 7m Neo for loops and bigair? I know it's made for waves but I have to say that I love my 10m Nexus (similar position in lineup to NEO) for bigair and loops.
Yes I really love the neo/or other wave kites cause it's so easy to get very big and the loops are easy to cause it catches you so fast. So it's also a very good Kite for learning big loops 😜
Mooi werk Steven! Inspirerend. Nu nog met 23m om aantal trucjes te nailen. Maar ga zeker zo nu en dan terug- (of eerder op)schakelen naar 20m om met loops te oefenen. Keep it up!
Klinkt als een top plan man! En voor de loops kan er in mijn mening niet heel veel op tegen 20m lijnen. Voor het begin is 22m echter wel even een stuk makkelijker.
Veel plezier op het water en bedankt voor je bericht! Super motiverend om dit te horen
Good layout man. Been riding mostly 24m since starting for extra boost in the summer but winter is 20m for sure
Yeah man! Thanks. Irish winters are made for the 20m lines 🚀
Gracias por tu vídeo, muy buena explicación. A mi me gusta navegar con líneas de 23m en condiciones de viento flojo para hidrofoil y me encantan las líneas de 20m con viento de 20-25 nudos. Para surfskate las líneas de 15m son una pasada!!!.
Nice man! Seems like you've been playing around with line lenghts for a while now!
Thank you for this video and the information. Your channel and your explanations are really good and understandable. I hope to see you kiting in Workum again sometime.
Thumbs up for your channel !
Thanks Chriss, it's my pleasure. I'll try and come to Workum somewhere this month, but not sure when yet 🙈
I always ride 22m lines, just love that so much for jumping and I'm tuned in to that kitefeeling. Might try 18m lines for some kiteloops soon tho, looks fun
I actually think that for most people 22m lines are golden, it's a good mix between everything. If you try different lengths you'll for sure need to re tune your timing, but it's a fun experiment and experience.
Nice Breakdown Steven, I should experiment way more with my line length. I was on 19 Meters for years and loved it, after changing kites now I am on 20 and 24 but I miss my shorter lines on bigger kites. Maybe I should go back to 19 and something smaller just for fun. If I only had the money to have a lot of different bars xD Keep doing these awesome videos and good luck for KOTA, I really enjoy your style!
Thanks for your comment! For sure planning to keep these videos coming.
If multiple bars are a problem you could always keep your bar at a standard 19m or 20m and then get yourself 2 sets of pigtails. Like that it would be very easy to extend your lines. (won't look that pretty though)
Keep on shredding and enjoy the show at King of the Air !
Awesome Steven thanks!
Any time!
Useful tips and explanations, thanks. Saw you riding at Le Morne with 14m lines few months back, sure looks fun. Used to ride with 20m, now on 22m, but I do miss the directness when using the 10sqm. Will try get some 18 or 20m back for looping with the 8sqm.
Yeah I love to foil there on the high tide.
Do you often ride in Mauritius or were you on a holiday? I'll be going back in april, maybe see you there 😉
@@stevenakkersdijk didn't notice the reply. Just got my 18m lines today, can't wait to try them and see the difference in the loops. I'm based here, yeah. General context is crap, but we're not complaining about a nearly empty Le Morne ;-)
I've looped the old 30m Naish C Kite on 30m lines, but I much prefer my 7m on 15m - especially on strapless
Can only imagine how slow that naish kite must have been 😅 And a mission to pump it up as well probably.
Dice 7 and 9 on 20 and 22m but it seems like i should get myself a bar ready with 16m lines for my los aspect hydrofoil sessions :) Thanks for the video !
Nice so you're already playing around quite a bit!
I really love the short lines on the foil. Especially if you love riding with speed and go for quick tacks and gybes.
For foiling in the waves I would switch back to longer lines again, something like 18m or 20m.
So If you go for the 16m lines on a foil you're winning
super dope! I love 22m lines 😍
Oh yes. Really enjoyed your setup at Donkey bay actually ;-)
Thank you. Detailed and useful info
My pleasure! Happy that you like it.
Always 20m 🤙
I like that!
Very instructive video, thanks for the explanation.
I ride always gts5 9m on 24m lines, i get higher loops as u mentionned. Impossible to get under the kite after recovery.
I am still afraid to get on 22m or 20m lines.
It's my pleasure!
I can really suggest trying out those 22m. It's not as if it will shoot you away like a rocket all the sudden, but on the smaller kites like the 9m it will ride a whole lot better.
Anything under 11 I would always ride on 22m lines.
Give it a try and let me know what you think 👍
I'll definitely try out my 7m extension on my 20m lines, next time I'll have to get out my 14m² kite. Never tried more than 20m lines 🤔
That will be immense long lines. You'll probably find the kite really slow on the 27m lines. But give it a try, you'll know 😉
@@stevenakkersdijk I will report
Great video, you have covered it all i reckon concerning lengths, and got me experimenting from being on 24,s all the time.
I recently when from 24,s to 22,s whilst going for big air woo scores mostly, i couldn't believe the difference in the control from a sent jump on the downloop on 22,s loved it timing much better for softer landing, however the session did result in a lower woo scores than i would have had with 24,s.
I am now very curious what 23m lines on the core bar would be like, ive got a niggling feeling it will give me the height difference back for the woo scores and keep some of that new direct downloop kite feel i got on 22,s, i dont see why this shouldn't be my sweet spot for me. its only a meter in line length but will tick all my boxes, fingers crossed.
Nice that you've been experimenting so much with the line lenghts. Joshua Emanuel was riding 23 meter lines for a season, but now he switched back to 22m lines.
I guess 23 can do the trick, curious to your findings when you have them.
I have 25m lines. And can add extension of 3 or 4 m for light wind days.
I need to get bar with shorter lines.
25m lines are quite long. But in light wind locations it makes a lot of sense. If the wind picks up above 20 knots it starts to become interesting to take out shorter lines like 22m
I am currently riding 24,5m Standart Lines but I want to try or take my 3m extension off to get my kite loops lower.
You'll probably enjoy the shorter lines. My favorite is 22m lines at the moment!
33m lines for absolute lowend power at Zanzibar 🤙🏽
Oh yes. That must be a Low end powerhouse!! What kite do you combine this with?
@@stevenakkersdijk 2020 GA ONE in 17m, the absolute low end machine, no other kites in the air then around us except Flysurfer.
Manager Zkp even after 12 weeks in covid lockdown I would rather wait for a windy day than go out in wind that low
please come to Squamish again!!!!
I would love to man! Really hope I can manage again this year
Hey Steven thanks so much for the content you put out, I learn a lot from you.. My quesiton is, for wind conditions that go from 19 to 26 knots, would you recommend 22 or 24 m for an 8 and 10 m XR7 ? Do you think 22 may be underpowered for this wind range? I'm 76kg
My pleasure, Give both of them a try and see what you prefer. The 22m lines will be slightly more direct which gives a very different feel. Power wise they're not that much different unless you're riding super underpowered and have to steer the kite up and down a lot. Even there the difference is marginal though.
@@stevenakkersdijk thank you so much for taking the time to reply! :)
Great explanation, I’m fairly new to kitesurfing but have been wondering what the pros and cons were,
Please make a video explaining about board your board choice, if you would use the same for boosting and king of the air or chose different boards for different things,
Thanks so much man. Always good to hear that people enjoy the video.
Do you mean the pros and cons of riding a long vs a wide twintip?
I can start talking about that for sure. I'll put it on the list.
Steven Akkersdijk I know obviously that a big board get you up early and is easier to learn on, I was thinking when you want to get into boosting (just for height) or if mega loops what you are looking for in a board,
Personally I’m thinking to go from cabrinha to core, I would go for xr kites, but not sure if going for a core board or carved also not sure what size to go for, I’m around 95kg will keep my cabrinha ace 141 for the xr 13.5m but was thinking about getting a smaller board for riding overpowered on 10m and 8m,
@@vikingh3008 personally I really love sticking to one board. But for lighter winds a bigger one does often make a bit more sense.
I do think size wise you're riding on a good board. I'm 85kg and ride a 139 (previously a 142 as I enjoy landings better on a bigger board)
Might have a look at making a video about it
Steven Akkersdijk thanks for the reply, one board would make sense as I travel a lot,
look forward to your videos and best of luck with Kota
Steven Akkersdijk if buying a 3 kite quiver of xr6 which 3 sizes would you recommend ?
Thanks Steven, I've always ridden long lines (23-25m) but want to start playing with shorter ones. But don't really want to buy a new bar (let alone multiple bars)..... What's your thoughts/advice on line extensions? I could cut my 23m lines, let's say at 16m point and splice pigs tails connectors into them, giving me 7m extensions to add or subtract as I wanted 🤔
Hey Riki, totattly understand buying a new bar is not really what you want.
Most people prefer 21 or 22m lines including me. So you could cut them there and still have the extension after that. 16m is quite short and probably you won't use it a lot.
As alwasy, great video. Would you recommed 24m or 22m for my first powered loops on a 8m XR7? I do sent loops on 22m or 24m often on 20-40ft jumps, just have not had the balls to pull the trigger to a powered loop on the way up. Just sent and down loops as of now.
I think you're better off trying this with 22m lines as the recovery of the kite will be slightly faster. The 8m XR should easily recover on a jump of 15ft and above. So have fun trying 🤙
Hey Steven, really handy vid. I'm wondering how much shorter lines might help for snowkiting. It's generally gustier, and it's harder to hold your edge than in water. Will shorter lines help the kite fly closer to the wind window while tacking so I don't have to burn out my quads so much if I'm traveling a long distance upwind? Maybe quicker recovery from gusts while tacking? Also, do you have any idea if those sensor bar bearings freeze up in snow (especially the old stainless version)? Thanks for taking time to answer people's questions here!
I'm glad you like it!
I don't have to much experience with snowkiting myself, but I do think it could help. With riding upwind a bit faster and having the kite more on the edge of the wind window. If you have to go up hills or mountains you might not like the short lines so much as it will be a lot of work to get power out of the kite (loads of steering)
When I snowkited my bad had the ceramic bearings, so I can't help you out with that question unfortunately. But I can really recommend getting the Sensor 2S + or later as they're super comfy with a ceramic bearing and different line lenths. (18,20,22 and 24)
Hope this helps.
Thank you
You're welcome!
I have the impression that short lines the efficiency of the kite improves, I know it has less force, but maybe when you sail across the wind it seems to be more efficient, generating more speed when sailing, what do you think? it is possible to sail faster with lines 16 m crossing the wind
Less lines = Less drag
A lot of the foil racers ride with short lines for multiple reasons. You can change direction faster and I also imagine that you can reach higher crosswind speeds.
So I would say you can ride faster on a crosswind course with 16m lines than 24m lines. In reality this won't be a very big difference for twintip riders, it should be more noticable for the foil racers.
Hi@@stevenakkersdijk thanks for the reply, 🤙🤙👊👊
In general for jumping with strong wind, would you go 12m shorter lines or a 9m long lines?
Depends a little bit on what you want. If it's strong wind you'll be beter off on your 9m as you'll jump higher. With the 12m you'll have long floating jumps, but they go far and not really high.
@@stevenakkersdijk Thanks for the reply
Thanks for the video Steven, I tried looping on 20m lines and it just feels awesome!
Would you recommend using the same setting for wave-riding?
Awesome!!
Personally I use the the 20m line setup for everything including wave riding.
Tried the 22m lines in the waves as well not to long ago and also enjoyed that.
Think it really comes down to personal preference. (I'll stick with 20 for a bit)
is there a tool that helps you to get the extensions off the lines more easily? It^s Always fingernail Breaking and almost impossible with cold fingers...
Tool is called "pearly whites"
I often use my teeth and saliva to soften up the knot. Just make sure you dont have sharp teeth and start cutting up the yarn.
If you're afraid to damage your lines I guess you can also soak them in water for a bit. Should make it slightly easier
I normally ride 24m lines, I purchased some 22 m lines,, but I noticed the 22 m lines to not pull very hard compared to the 24m lines,, I am using a 12m kite in 15-17 knot conditions.
On the bigger kites the line lenght in the pull will make much less of a difference than with the smaller kites. Give it a try on the smaller kite and im sure you'll notice a bigger difference.
@@stevenakkersdijk thanks, would you classify kite size , anything 12 or more big. 9-11 normal and 8 and lower small or do you judge by wind speed
Yes, thats more or less how I would classify it as well. As soon as you ride anything 10m or smaller the line difference will become more noticeable with the pull in loops.
Great video Steven thanks!
What setting would you recommend as a good idea to try my first (ever) kiteloops?
I ride GTS 7 and 9 with pro bar
Thanks a lot man!
I would recommend riding the 9m GTS with 22m lines. That should do the trick for your first loops.
Just be sure to pull hard on your loop ;-)
Hi Steven, thanks you for this video ! What's is exactly "low end" ? You spoke about high and better low end, but I don't get this "low end" concept. Thanks man !
Hey Robin.
Low and high end indicate the wind range of a kite. When I talk about low end, I mean the least amount of wind you can ride that kite with. If the low end improves you can ride with less wind, If the high end improves you can ride it with wayy stronger winds.
Hope this helps.
@@stevenakkersdijk I got it man, thank you ! I am about to buy some new kitesurf equipement. What do you think of the CrazyFly brand ? I ride mainly in Oesterdam (Holland).
@@robinvandermeulen5101 i used to ride one of their boards and really enjoyed it, cant speak for their kites though as I haven't ridden them at all.
I used 14 m line and 17 m2 inflatable kite for Race Kitefoiling in Light Wind (6 to 10 knots), but sometimes it lacked power and performance in low wind. it's good to have control over the steering, to help on maneuvers (jibes and tackles in low wind), but difficult to de-power in downwind. Overall, I think performance is worse than in longer lines for Light Wind. Does my feeling makes sense for you?
If you want light wind performance you need longer lines. But it all depends how light wind we're talking.
What you say above here makes total sense. You really need a bigger wind window with light winds to be able to steer your kite around and generate power.
Steven Akkersdijk thanks, but with longer lines it will be harder to tack and jibe, as I lose speed steer control. I don’t know the balance result Long x Short. What I know is that people with Kitefoils and hydrofoil (regata) use short lines such as 12-14 meters long
how do you set your bar pressure settings in the tip of the kite when you ride an 18 meter lines? is it on the "medium", "easy" or "super easy"?
I always leave it on the same setting to have the same feel across my quiver.
I leave it on the factory settings which is super easy if I'm correct.
@@stevenakkersdijk alright, thank you! Keep up with the videos, they are great!!
how short would it be prudent to ride a strapless wave board? think most of the guys ride 22 m strapless in the waves
I think it depends a lot on the type of waves and wave direction that you have.
Majority would be riding 22m lines, even though I'm always on 20m lines. Downside on the shorter 20m lines is the jank that the kite generates when you pull a loop (to get around a section for instance). Upside is that you can be a bit more agile and change direction of your riding quicker.
thanx, this pretty much sums it up!
I really wish to shorten my lines, so I bought another bar (north quad) for that reason.
I'm just afraid to change the angle of inner lines between where they split to the kite.
Any tips or video of "how to"?
What else should I take card of?
Thanks!!!
I'm not to familiar with the line splitting on the North bars, so can't really help you out that much there.
In general a kite will steer slower if you put the Y split down. You'll get a bit more steering pressure and the kite will turn from the tip.
If you move the Y split up the kite turns easier and more from the middle of the kite.
Hope this helps.
Check this out czcams.com/video/JCB9X7HLZG4/video.html
bru, thanks for the video! can you tell more about **ngeling effect for hight jump on long lines? it is not clear in video.
Which effect do you mean?
Pendulum effect?
Steven Akkersdijk yes!
Steven Akkersdijk how much does it affect hight of a jump?
I can't tell you precisely as it depends a lot on the way that you jump. But I do know it has an effect. But i guess every meter of lines you take off will also let you jump a meter less high (more or less)
Steven, I have Eleveight FS 9 and bar with line 22 ... is this not dangerous for the first loops? I jump only 3-4 meters with a loop .. just afraid higher))) what will if 5-7 meter? thanks!
Hey Роман
It's really hard to tell what is good and bad for someone just reading their words. I would need to see the way you jump and then I'll be able to judge if it's a good or bad plan to give loops a try. Could you send me a video on instagram or facebook?
Generally a loop where you jump higher is safer, as there is more space for the kite to catch you again. This only works if you perform a good and flawless loop though.
The Eleveight FS should be fine for loops, especially on 22m lines. Just make sure to steer hard ;-)
Steven Akkersdijk someday I’ll shoot a video and show you! thanks)
I mainly ride on 22m on both my 8m GTS5 and 10M nexus. Love the explosiveness of the GTS5, but after going back to the 10m nexus, it takes me a while to adjust my timing. I will def try 20m on the nexus on my next session. Cant wait to see what the new Core Bar will look like....any spoilers? 🤫
Nice! Curious to hear how you enjoy the 20m lines.
I know that the switching between the kites isn't always the easiest.
Talking about the bar.... maybe just have a look here: corekites.com/us/bars/sensor-3
It has launched last week. We just don't advertise it as this doesn't feel like the right time with everything going on.
Does Core provide 15m lines? I have a 2S+ bar with 18-24m lines
There is one bar that comes with 16m lines and that's the 2S Pro foil bar.
If you want shorter you could maybe mail service@corekites.com and they could sort you out
@@stevenakkersdijk tnx
sooooo ... if you only go for boosting high you on 22 m ? ( 10-7 m kites )? looping on 20 m ?
when you use 24 m lines ?
Thats a very good option.
This is all based on personal preferences of course. But this is what I would suggest for most people:
22m lines in general (can switch to 24m lines on the big kites with lower wind)
Anything smaller than 11m I would ride on 22m or shorter.
If you really want a sporty feel in the kite and more pull and acceleration in the loops, I can really recommend attaching 20m lines. But you need to have your loops pretty dialed for that.
Hope this helps!
Hey Steven, what linelenght u recommend on my 11m nexus? (Im a beginner kitelooper) I have a sensor3+ bar so i have some options.. thx in advance 🤙
Hey Nils
I would go for the 22m lines on the Nexus kite. Can recommend this setup in general as you can't really go wrong with it.
@@stevenakkersdijk thx for the recommendation! Any idea how to easily losen those knots? 😅
I have an 13m Ozone Chrono V2 for foiling, 24m lines, would 14m lines be okay for riding really powered and use the 24m lines for light wind ?
The shorter lines should give you more high end in the riding and help with your tacking.
So that should be a good option 👌
21 like to be different😉😋
Nice! I like that option. Could even be something I would be riding.