Kareem GOAT Debate Gets HEATED!
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Ticket ain’t interrupt one time. This gotta be the meta verse 🤣
He didn't want no smoke
@@JorgeGonzalez-uc1be ticket is the most knowledgeable person among these mooks
Dub is a walking L
@Volume yea the white guy with the hoodie
@@fawazkd caribbean latino or mena no?
@@S1LVAW0LF who knows, he takes Ls tho
@@JT-km6th hes 🇵🇷 im pretty sure. But yeah Ls for days. I love his "what are we doing" doe.
The main issue we should focus on is that Dub said Kareem is a fraud
literally
Exactly
Exactly cause Dude played against part time hoopers. Him and Wilt are frauds.
@@joshsmindset not he didn’t. He played in the 70s and 80s. Calling Wilt and Larry Bird frauds is crazy.
@@isaiahcoley438 defense was nonexistent in wilt era 😂. He looked like me playin against my little brothers 1 v 5. I actually watched the full games they’re on the internet not just highlights…
This entire argument might be the greatest moment in Panel history so far
Fr
boi did fyf have sum for you😭😭😭
Some of these guys on this panel are too young to debate Kareem
Age doesn’t matter, but if you don’t do your research, it does
*COUGH * *COUGH* MARZ!!!
Kareem has a case regardless what anyone says
Facts
So he doesn’t because you’re saying something and it doesn’t matter what anyone says
@@brandonlamb9067 Well he has the MVPs a few fmvp got robbed for one of them. Averaged nearly 25 and 11 for a career.
@@dtg0342 Great! That would be a fair argument if nobody else has career achievements of that calibre. Can you think of anyone else who has all of those?
@@brandonlamb9067 Not many especially bigs
Kareem would also have the NBA blocks title, but they didn't count blocks as a stat the first handful of seasons in his career.
Wilt Chamberlain would hold that record
ye wilt chamberlain or bill russel would hold that for sure tey recorded wilts blocks for like 120 games in a row and he averaged like 8.6 blocks and it was recorded during the games by an official nba stats counter
@smokey_mk2 there's no actual video proof of that
@@joshuae4639 there is just rewatch all of his old games they are probably stashed somewhere far far away
@smokey_mk2 you'll be a rich man if u can find any video proof of that 100 point game...bc there is none that's why ppl say it might have never happened. Only pictures but no actual footage
Kareem was great before Magic. But Magic solidified his legacy and extended his career. He wasn't winning as much before him, the joy of winning help prolonged his career
You could say Kareem helped Magic solidify his legacy too
You can’t be saying that bout Kareem frfr if you know basketball Kareem’s career in general should just speak for it’s self pure greatness before he made it to the league 💯
It speaks volumes you couldn’t get one analyst on ESPN to even entertain the idea of Kareem being a fraud. In any contest, that’s a take no one would defend
The backlash from their peers would be too much to handle
Michael has better Accolades and LeBron has better longevity and they both never played with another top 10 player all time. so I could understand why it's hard to make the argument for Kareem over either of them
That’s why he’s in 3rd place while lebron and Mike are near unanimous 2nd and 1st
What about Bill Russell?
@@syzorst Russell has the rings but not the stats. Jordan, LeBron and Kareem all have a better mix of stats + rings.
@@herbertdaniel4422 Bill Russell has a case due to his success and impact. He may not have scored alot but have you seen his defensive win shares? He's regarded as the best defensive player in NBA history and couple that with his number of championships.
@@syzorst Sure, but again, LeBron, Jordan and Kareem have the better mix. Russell was other-worldly on defense, but his offense was about average. Kareem and LeBron have both scoring titles + All-Defensive teams. Jordan has scoring titles + DPOY. Their ability to affect both ends of the court is why I give them the edge over Bill Russell.
There were a few years when Dr. J was close to Kareem. That's why he led the 76ers to THREE title series BEFORE he won with Moses in 83. And Kareem himself never took the Lakers to a finals without Magic, yet only 2 seasons after Kareem retired, Magic took the Lakers to the Finals in 91.
Dr. J is the greatest to me to do the most with less. He won 3 MVPs in a row in the ABA (1974-1976). And won 2 championships without a top 75 all time player. How many players you know did that?? Dr. J was the ABA as Jordan was the NBA
@@sambeezy007 Not even when Magic was hurt in 1981, they lost in the first round. Safe to assume that team at least in terms of impact, Magic was the teams engine.
@@zdub5125 Yes he was.
Kareem won a title without Magic, Magic never won a title without Kareem.
@@leonsummers6460 No one is denying that, all I said was in terms of impact Magic was that teams engine. Just like Steph is with the Warriors.
Kobe is NOT better all time player than lebron James this dude is out his mind delusional ain’t even the word LO please stop the blasphemy that this ticket dude spews
The players voted for the individual best player that particular year. The media includes that, includes how great the team was, whether there are other great players who 'should' get at least one MVP and whether or how much the media and public appears to like or dislike the player.
Many historians have said players disliking wilt and oscar hurt them in mvp races. Also, if players only voted on who the best player was Cowens and Unseld wouldn't have won.
@@Stephen246666
Cowens surely didn’t deserve his MVP in 73’.
You can argue Unseld didn’t deserve his in 69’ over Reed.
@@Stephen246666When Dave Cowens and Wes Unseld won NBA MVP, it was by vote of the players. No media was involved.
To say “Kareem has no argument” is Wild
He does it's just very hard to agrue him over those two
@@brandonlane4806 tbh he doesnt unless u are mainly valuing accolades and also disregarding competition
Why this dude saying Kobe was challenging lebron as if lebron was making it to the finals to meet Kobe 😂
But they had a lot of head to head matches tho
@@deandrewilliams6776The regular season is the regular season. The Magics and Celtics kept LeBron James from meeting Kobe in the Finals. Kobe beat both of those teams by the way to win 🏆 🙌
Where was Kobe at when Lebron was in the finals in 2011-2015?
@TyQuan Richardson Where was LBJ from 08 to 10? When Kobe went to the NBA finals?
@@Hunchopronto LBJ TOOK 3 L's in 2011, 2014, and 2015!
Media hated Kareem for his views politically so Marz was wrong about the media liking him.
i said kareem would get less mvps if the media voted though?
@@MarzTalksSportsHe didn't get any once the media took control of the Maurice Padoloff Trophy, dipstick.
Whatever, Marz. You've been enormously wrong before and, quite likely, you'll be enormously wrong again.
@@JAWrightonline everyones been wrong so idk what u gained from that.and ur first statement would help my point would it not.Kareem benefitted from player voting
@@MarzTalksSports It's not like he won a popularity contest. Kareem was a very solitary individual. The players were simply recognizing the best player. Julius (Dr. J) Erving was definitely more sociable and popular with the NBA players. How many NBA MVP Awards did he receive through his first four NBA years? Zero. The first year the writers have control, Erving's the league MVP...What a coincidence!
Had the media had control of the Maurice Padoloff Trophy from Day One, Bill Russell would not have won it five times and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar definitely wouldn't have won it six times.
@@JAWrightonline u are agreeing with me so ima just say thanks and keep it pushing
Kareem is the true goat tbh
Kobe never played Lebron in the finals and dub never going to mention Tim Duncan?
He's not saying players can't vote he's saying the media is bias and they give the MVP away to the wrong player
But they don’t they do a better job then these guys and stay their reason lol every year you can give the MVP 2 like 4-6 guys smh 🤦🏿♂️ they typically pick the right guy like every damn time
@@Tonyoung55 explain Nash over Kobe but cp3 with better numbers than Nash losing to jokic who had worst numbers than Kobe and way more help??? Clearly the narrative bias wins in the media
@@countryrahSteve Nash was leading the best offense in the NBA when the year prior the team was damn near a lottery team. He averaged 50-40-90. Believe the first since Bird. Then the next year the leading scorer on the team gets hurt in 3 games and they still are a top 4 team in the nba and have the best offense again. He averages 50-40-90 AGAIN! Obviously he’s getting the mvp over kobe, Shaq, and Lebron. He was doing historic shit just like Jokic did
@@countryrah stop crying
@@Marcus-ge5lw how is that crying stating a fact that's why none used awards in a real goat debate and even personal awards are still based on team success so it's still a team award basically the best should be judged on personal impact and skill don't need to be a yes man or sheep to know what you see yourself
Dub ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS has the worst takes. All generations benefited from the way the game was played, viewed, voted upon.
Nah this really feels like a meeting of the minds
This the greatest segment in this show
Old school be teaching these boys
In the 70s 80s and Early 90’s there was a Different Brand of Basketball Played, It was Call Team Ball! And the Emphasis was On Having a Dominating Center and theyPlayed Inside Out! There were more Great & Dominating Centers Back then! There was Better Fundamental Basketball back then, that also Incorporated Role Players that Complimented Team Play! It was a Better Brand of Basketball! With Better Players!
Hell no! The players nowadays are WAYYYY better. please stop it!
Hakeem faced the best era of big men and best them all, the 70s were the worst era for the nba ratings and talent wise, the 2000s had better bigs as well, more skilled on offense , bigger and better on defence
@@jonnstewart2023
Best era for big men with more spacing on the court to operate in isolation
Dub blatantly lying on MJ. MJ in his prime only faced Magic and a Young Shaq in his 8 year tour of the 90s. He didn't face Hakeem or Bird. The only top 15 players Lebron has faced are Steph Curry and Tim Duncan.
This is also revisionist history. You'd have to go back and see who was in the top 10 all-time while Kareem played to say who was the comp he was playing. He couldn't beat Steph If he played 50 years before him, that shouldn't hurt Kareemo cases for MVP or Goat
I agree but it's kinda ridiculous to say lebron just had to play duncan and steph. He had to play 2 of the greatest teams of all time
@@Ohandori he's talking players
@@Ohandori in the top 15 I think
Wrong. In 1975 Kareem missed many games that year and his second best play was out a bunch of games also. This dude in the middle was lying
Kobe is literally my favorite player, the first i ever idolized and had the most impact on me as a young sports fan along with tom brady. But even i cannot say that Kobe was a greater player than Lebron
Thank you for being real, I'm a huge Dirk fan but i don't try to shoe horn him into conversations he shouldn't be in.
How was Bill Russell a challenge for Wilt though, I have Russell over Wilt All time but 1v1 Wilt dominated him it was basically The 60’s Celtics challenged Wilt
Bron would definitely have more than 4 MVPs if players voted and Kobe would for sure have more.
Y’all aren’t talking about who’s the “best” player ever though…YALL ARE TALKING ABOUT WHO’S THE “GREATEST” so to say you don’t look at accomplishments like MVPs is crazy cause your accolades plays a a huge factor is a players greatness. Dub has some of the worst takes I’ve ever heard about basketball
Exactly those guys can’t do the difference.
And most don’t actually do the difference
@@yvans.
Can the best player ever be a center?
Because based off of general consensus, you need to have skills resembling of a wing or guard.
Me personally, I don’t agree with that.
@@tyjohnson3111 Yeah, I think the best player in the league can be a Center
@@yvans.
So why do people disregard Kareem out of the “best” player conversation 🤔
Then Bill Russell is the goat, simple as, 11 rings
Kareem is the most unappreciated grossely NBA player ever smh
If kareem abdul jabbar is the most underapprieciated then kobe is definitely the most disrespected hands down
Its amazing that Kareem is never in the convo. Its like saying 1+1 does not = 2
He’s not in the conversation because he was half a foot bigger than his competitors during his time. Everyone knows he wouldn’t be nearly as effective if he played his prime in the 90s. That shot was unstoppable because players were short.
@@reese5545Thanks for confirming prime Kareem would absolutely DESTROY prime Little Mikey's sorry ass.
I need the full live 😂😂
This is why I don’t rank players who I haven’t seen.
A rather calm ticket 👏🏾
LeBron was battling Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwan, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird, the guy with the hoodie said. What? How can anyone take him seriously after that? Every one of those four players retired before LeBron entered the league. All four of them played against Kareem, but not one of them ever played against LeBron. Hoodie guy shows his ignorance when he says LeBron faced tougher competition than Kareem faced. Kareem battled the likes of Wilt Chamberlain, Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore, Robert Parrish, and Bill Walton. They weren't tough competition?
MJ and kareen never played the spurs or gsw.
@@coreythomas3633 Sorry for being so abrupt and straightforward, but you are wrong. Michael Jordan and Kareem both played against the Spurs and the Warriors. What would make you think they didn't?
Wilt was already old when Kareem came into the league and an old Wilt DOMINATED prime Kareem in the playoffs that’s embarrassing. The equivalent of Lebron today dominating Giannis in the playoffs
@@ubereats3047 No one will ever hear me diss Wilt; he and Kareem are--in my opinion--the two greatest centers of all time (followed closely by Hakeem). I'd have a hard time choosing one over the other. But, as to Wilt dominating prime Kareem... Wrong. In the 1972 season, for example, Kareem outscored Wilt 201-70 in their five regular season games. In the six 1972 playoff games, Kareem outscored Wilt 202-67. Wilt was a better defender, even at that age, but to say Wilt dominated Kareem is more than a stretch.
@@jerrygramckow3584 Wilt was blocking Kareem’s skyhook in multiple possessions in their 1972 playoff matchup with Wilt having a 20/20 game in the close out game as a 35 year old
The point about the ABA is somewhat valid because if how many HOFs played in the ABA but on the flip side, I dont recall many of the best ABA players being centers. The only one that truly comes to mind is Moses Malone. Gilmore was good but i don't think he was top 5 in the ABA. He might not have been top 10
@Ocean Lives 2 things, 1) what does MJ have to do with the topic in question? This is about Kareem, the ABA, & (per the video) how the ABA related to how many MVPs Kareem won. MJ want even at UNC yet when the ABA folded so how is he relevant? 2) since you want to talk MJ fine. Yes the NBA expanded during his "reign" but his 1st MVP came before that. The league expanded in 88-89 and he won his 1st in 87-88. While the league did expanded its not like those teams were trash. All of the 1st four had made the playoffs multiple times before he retired in 98, 3 had won 50+ games by then & 2 had won 60. One of them even beat MJ (albeit a diminished version) in the playoffs. Beyond that, even if you want to say the league was "watered down" (id disagree but that's not the point) those guys were still in the NBA & thereby eligible for MVP consideration while in Kareems case the ABA guys were not for the first 7 years (& 4 MVPs) of his career. That's not to say any of those guys were better than Kareem, they werent, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have won any of those awards. LeBron was damn near unanimously the best player in the NBA from 2009-2016. That's 8 years, but he didnt win MVP every year.
@Ocean Lives which again begs the question.... where did MJ come from cuz i certainly didn't mention him. Furthermore I already acknowledged that Kareem was better than Dr.J & Moses. Id argue he was still better than them when they won some of their MVPs so what's to say they wouldnt have won a few more if they were in the NBA. But saying they would, but it's possible. It sounds like you're arguing for Kareem to be the GOAT, & if that's your opinion is s perfectly valid one to have. Im simply saying that that's not the issue in question. Im specifically talking about MVPs & how the ABAs existence skewed the situation. Arguably 2 if the worlds top 5, certainly 3 of its top 10 players (at varying points werent in the league so that's going to skew things. Did Kareem DESERVE his MVPs, yes. Does the most deserving player always win said award, no.
@@SportsSpeak73Be more complete. The four MVPs Kareem earned during the ABA's time, who was the ABA MVP in those years.
This convo is cap. Kareem was 7’2 with very advanced offensive skills and averaged over 3 blocks a game and 15 rebounds at times in his career. Kareem would dominate in todays nba. You cant take away from by talking about the level of competition. You can make that case against any player who is a specimen of talent ie: lebron, Giannis, MJ, shaq, dirk, Kd.
When have we ever talked about highschool and college careers being included in NBA career rankings?
Kareem 1970-1976 is the weakest time in NBA history that he won 4 of his 6 mvps.
30ppg 15rpg 4bpg before the merger.
1977-1986 the rest of his prime
23ppg 9rpg 2bpg
Big O retired after 1974 , Magic began the 1980 season.
The 5 years in between is the worst 5year span for any top 10 player in the middle of their prime .
1975 38-44
1976 40-42
1977 swept 2nd round Bill Walton
1978 lost in the 1st round
1979 1-4 2nd round
1981 with Magic injured
Lost first round , Moses Malone out played him.
And the 5th and 6th rings Kareem got he was not an all-nba player anymore and the 3rd to 4th best Laker.
The 6ring 6mvp stat is overrated.
Lakers success was more because of Magic.
I think Kareems case is solidified by accolades but that is not his only case. From a pure basketball stand point, he is the undoubtedly the most unstoppable, unguardable, and if we are honest the most dominant player ever.
He's a 7'3 (7'4 with shoes on) 225 lbs center who can run the floor, shoot with the left or right, back to the basket and face up game, with a reliable mid range jumper. He doesn't turn the ball over while still giving you 5 assist a night. He's the most consistent and unstoppable player in the history of the game. To prove it in 1986 Kareem avg 28 5 6 in a playoff series against Hakeem, while shooting 60%. He was 38 years old, while Akeem was 24.
Defensively he didn't have a high motor, or the versatility of Hakeem or KG, but he was still a top 10 talent on that side of the ball. He's third all time in blocks despite blocks not being counted his first 4 years in the league.
And there is a theme with the Lakers wasting Prime years of top ten players. Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, and LeBron(still good enough to win titles) all had Prime years wasted playing for the Lakers. The Lakers team he played on was shitty, they had the worst roster in the league and would've been a lot worse if Kareem didn't play.
Kareem played with *25 All Stars & atleast 9 HOFs (Chappell 1x, DANDRIDGE 4x, McGlockin 1x, Robinson 1x, RODGERS 4x, OSCAR 12x, Boozer 1x, Block 1x, Rule 1x, Price 1x, GOODRICH 5x, Russell 1x, Washington 1x, DANTLEY 6x, Hudson 6x, Nixon 2x, Scott 5x, Wilkes 3x, HAYWOOD 5x, MAGIC 12x, MCADOO 5x, Mix 1x, WORTHY 7x, Green 1x, Lucas 5x)*
Kareem’s Bucks (1970-75):
Big O was an All Star from 1961-1972
Dandridge was an All Star in 1973 & 1975
Robinson was an All Star in 1970
Price was an All Star in 1975
Kareem’s Lakers (1976-1989):
Nixon was an All Star in 1982
Wilkes was an All Star in 1981 & 1983
Magic was an All Star in 1980 & 1982-91
Worthy was an All Star from 1986-92
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
KAREEM- (‘71-74, ‘76 & 77, ‘80 & 81, ‘84 & ‘86 1st Team; ‘70, ‘78 & 79, ‘83, ‘85 2nd Team)
Oscar- (‘71 2nd Team)
Bob- N/A
Robinson- NONE
Price- NONE
Nixon- NONE
Wilkes- NONE
Magic- (‘82 2nd Team; ‘83-89 1st)
Worthy- N/A
Number of All-NBA teammates per season:
0, 1*, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0*, 0, 1*, 1, 1, 1*, 1, 1*,1*
I don’t see 1 All-NBA teammate he had from 75’-79’.
In 75’ he gets hurt and the Bucks are abysmal without him. In 76’ his team should have gotten into the playoffs but two worse teams did. In 77’, that “2nd round” you’re referring to is the Conference Finals, since the league had just merged which added a 6th seed to each conference for playoff implications. And he outplayed Walton easily.
78’ Hurt again. 79’ wasn’t 1-4 because the 1st Round wasn’t contested in Best-Of-7.
81’ Magic injured and cost them Game 3 with a shit performance.
Averaged 20+ in the 87’ Finals, his first year not being All NBA.
Notice how you conflate 77’ into 86’, but no mention of the 3 being added to the game. I wonder why.
Norm was a rookie in 78’.
All Star in 82’.
Never considered All NBA caliber.
Wilkes was an All Star alongside Barry & Phil Smith in 76’, then didn’t get back to that level until 81’.
Never considered All NBA caliber.
None of those guys were ever All Stars while Kareem was there from 76’-79’.
Meaning Kareem played 74’, 76’, 77’, 78’, & 79’ without an All Star teammate.
That’s half of the decade.
Goodrich, Wilkes, Dantley, Norm, Cooper, Hudson, Cazzie, etc.
None were adequate help for the specific seasons they were on the roster. None were All Stars alongside Kareem.
You gonna blame him for that?
Compare those guys to the help the champions had from 77’-79’; then from 70’-76’.
Start with Bill Walton gaining Mo Lucas from the ABA dispersal draft.
Who did the Lakers get?
Let’s see if you know what you’re talking about.
=================================
Dr.J 73’-76’ RS➡️29/11/5/2/2 on 56% TS
11/23 FG (51%) + 6/8 FT (79%)
In 40 MPG & 323 GP
28% USG, 19/13 AST%/TOV%, 62 WS
Dr.J 73’-76’ PS➡️30/11/5/2/2 on 58% TS
12/23 FG (52%) + 7/9 FT (78%)
In 42 MPG & 37 GP
28% USG, 18/11 AST%/TOV%, 8 WS
Lakers 1981⤵️
With Magic in the lineup, they were 26-11.
Without him in 45 Games; 28-17.
In those 45 Games, Kareem was
28/11/3 with 3 BPG on 62% TS (+9)
(11/20 FG + 6/8 FT per game).
Magic came back averaging 22/9/9 on 58% TS (+5) in the last 17 games, after starting the first 20 games with 21/8/9/3/1 on 58% TS (+5).
⏺️Should be noted in the 2 games Kareem missed in 1981 RS, Magic was 2-0 averaging 22/9/11/6/1 on 44% TS (17/42 FGM + 10/18 FTM)
Kareem gave Moses 27/17/4/1/3 on 52% TS (30/65 FGM & 20/28 FTM),
in the same series Moses gave him 31/18/3/0/2 on 55% TS
(38/74 FGM & 18/25 FTM).
The 3 Game First Round series was separated by 12 points (HOU +2).
Magic was the reason why they LOST that series, not Kareem.
Look at the game log and rewatch again.
I don’t hear you mentioning Magic going 2/14 from the field & 6/11 from the line in that Game 3 in 81’…🤔
Did that triple double cover up for it?
◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️
1981 WC1stRd⤵️
Moses⬇️
31/18/3/0/2 on 55% TS (+3) in 47 MPG
13/25 FG (51%) + 6/8 FT (72%)
38/23/4/1/2▶️50% TS%, 15/34 FG & 8/10 FT
33/15/2/0/2▶️73% TS%, 15/19 FG & 3/8 FT
23/15/3/0/1▶️48% TS%, 8/21 FG & 7/7 FT
________________________________
KAJ⬇️
27/17/4/1/3 on 52% TS (+0) in 39 MPG
10/22 FG (46%) + 7/9 FT (71%)
20/4/3/0/3▶️49% TS%, 9/19 FG & 3/6 FT
23/4/3/1/3▶️49% TS%, 10/23 FG & 7/10 FT
23/15/3/1/2▶️57% TS%, 11/23 FG & 10/12 FT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MP: Moses (+8, 142)
FGM: Moses (+8, 38)
FGA: Moses (+9, 74)
FTM: KAJ (+2, 20)
FTA: KAJ (+3, 28)
TREB: Moses (+3, 53)
AST: KAJ (+3, 12)
STL: KAJ (+2, 3)
BLK: KAJ (+3, 8)
TOV: KAJ (+2, 11)
PF: KAJ (+3, 14)
PTS: Moses (+14, 94)
Seems closer to me in terms of the individual matchup than you’re giving it credit for.
============================
Firstly, what you’re saying is not completely true.
Kareem missed the first 17 games of the 75’ season (Bucks went 3-14 in his absence).
That’s a 28 Win Pace.
Tell me how Bobby D fared as a No.1 option compared to when he had Kareem with him.
With Kareem in the lineup, they played at a 49 Win Pace (35-30 in 65 GP).
That’s “winning impact” for you 🤷🏾♂️
The Bucks in 76’ were the only team in their division who’s record did not negatively change from 75’.
That’s the only reason why they won their division the following season in 76’.
Dandridge along with Brian Winters “kept the ship afloat” as the main two All Stars.
You also haven’t mentioned nor factored in the trade MIL & LA made regarding Kareem.
When Lebron left, the Cavs didn’t do a sign & trade with MIA for him.
How could they have replaced his value in the same fashion MIL did?
You’re comparing apples to oranges now 🤔
____________________
In the 1975 season (38-44), the Bucks were 9th in offense, 8th in defense, 8th in net rating, 13th in points scored per game & 5th in points allowed per game.
Kareem only played the last 65 of 82 games where they were 35-30 with him & 3-14 without him in the first 17 games of the season.
They finished 4th in the Midwest Division & tied for 6th in the conference. It should be noted that the DET Pistons in their division @40-42 & NYK in the Atlantic Division in the East @40-42 both made the playoffs as the final seed (5th).
Kareem averaged 30/14/4/1/3 in 42 MPG on
51% FG (13/24 per game) & 76% FT (5/7 per game) coming in 5th in MVP
Kareem was 3rd in PPG, 5th in RPG, 1st in BPG, T-18th in APG, T-16th in SPG, 3rd in BLK%, 9th in TREB%, 4th in DREB%, 4th in EFG%, T-11th in TS%, 2nd in MPG, 2nd in WS (6th in OWS-8th in DWS), & T-5th in Defensive Rating that season. 🤷🏾♂️
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the 1976 season (40-42), the Lakers were 7th of 18 in offense & 13th of 18 in defense; scoring the 3rd most PPG while giving up the 17th most.
However, this team had a better record than 2 West teams in the Midwest Division-38-44 Bucks & 36-46 Pistons who made the playoffs as they were the top 2 in that division. The Suns in comparison were 42-40; 3rd in the Pacific Division and the 3rd seed in the West.
Kareem also averaged 28/17/5/2/4 in 41 MPG on 53% FG (11/21 per game) & 70% FT (6/8 per game) with no All Star help that season 🤫
Taking home the MVP that year
Kareem was ranked 2nd in PPG, *1st in RPG* , 11th in APG, T-11th in SPG, *1st in BPG* , 2nd in BLK%, 3rd in TREB%, 2nd in DREB%, 5th in EFG%, 8th in TS%, *1st in MPG* , *1st in OWS & DWS* , & T-2nd in Defensive Rating.
********************************
Firstly there was 18 teams-not 16 which is the reason why the 1st seeds in each conference had a bye to the ECSF & WCSF respectively to face the winner of the 4/5 matchup.
5 teams each make the playoffs in each conference-so 10/18 teams make the playoffs.
10 of 18 teams in 1976 were under .500, ranging from 40-42 LA Lakers & *Eastern Conference* HOU Rockets to Western Conference Chicago Bulls @ 24-58.
At the time both conferences were separated by 2 divisions.
In the West, all the 4 Midwest Division teams had a worst record than the Lakers.
The Lakers *(4th in Pacific, 4th in West)*
had a better record than 2 West teams in the Midwest Division-
38-44 Bucks *(1st in Midwest, 5th in West)* &
36-46 Pistons *(2nd in Midwest, 7th in West)* who made the playoffs as they were the top 2 in that division--but were the 4th & 5th seeds in the West First Round Playoff facing against each other 🤔
The Suns in comparison were 42-40 *(3rd in Pacific, 3rd in West)*
Prior to 2005, NBA division champions were seeded higher than the other teams in their conference, regardless of their record.
Prior to 2004, when the NBA was aligned into two conferences with two divisions each, the division champions were guaranteed the top two seeds.
This meant that top two teams in a conference (by record) would be seeded either first and second (if they were in opposite divisions) or first and third (if they were in the same division).
Because of the NBA playoffs' preset matchups in the second round, this meant that the top two teams in a conference could never meet until the conference finals, assuming they both made it to that round.
********************************
First off the NBA went to 4 divisions across 2 conferences for the first time in 1971 with an increased number of teams.
In 1970, there was 14 teams separated by 2 conferences *(East & West)*
In 1971, there was 17 teams separated by 4 divisions into 2 conferences
*(East: Atlantic & Central, West: Midwest & Pacific)*
Eight teams still qualified, four from each conference. Hence, the division semifinals and division finals came to be known as conference semifinals and conference finals, respectively.
The top two teams in each division qualified as the Eastern Conference, comprising the Atlantic and Central divisions, while the Western Conference consisted of the Midwest and Pacific divisions.
The first place team from one division would face the second place team of the other division within their conference.
In the conference playoffs, a division winner always held home-court advantage over a second place team regardless of record.
*71’ BOS (44-38): 3rd in Atlantic; 3rd in EAST*
*71’ PHO (48-34): 3rd in Midwest; T-3rd in WEST*
*71’ DET (45-37): 4th in Midwest; 4th in WEST*
All due to an outdated rule missing out on playoff basketball.
Instead in the East,
You had a
*42-40 Bullets team (1971 Eastern Conference Champs; 1st in Central & 4th in East)* make it *(Central Div. Weakest That Season)*
alongside a
*36-46 Hawks team (2nd in Central, 5th in East)*
____________________
In the West, you had a
*48-34 Lakers team (1st in Pacific, T-3rd in West)* and a
*41-41 Warriors team (2nd in Pacific, 6th in West)*
*The only two years where this “problem occurs” since the expanding into 4 divisions separated by 2 conferences is 1971 & 1976-the year before the merger that added a 6th seed 🤔*
Kareem is the GOAT
Kareem has the GOAT career, that’s not even a debate…
As a career, his career was better than everyones….
Now as a player that’s what we are debating (he’s easily Top3 in that also)
He does not have the greatest nba career
@@jonnstewart2023
L take
MJ
Kareem
Bill
Magic
Lebron
Top 5 all time
Shit list
LeBron is top 2-3
@@deetheoriginal3117
Nah, you want to make the case for bill that’s cool. But he didn’t pass Kareem and definitely didn’t pass magic
Lebron isn't in my top 10.
Dr. J, Wilt, Jordan, Kobe, Kareem, Russell, The Dream, Duncan, Magic, and Bird (make your own order but these are my 10).
If Jordan is most people's "goat" it's only logical to have the original Jordan there and the closest to Jordan. If you do true core research on Dr. J and Wilt then you'll understand why they're in my top 10
If we want to be real, him winning that bubble ring just put him over bird. He just made top 5 because of that championship!!! But for lebron to be the 2nd greatest player of all time
Is Ludicrous!!!
Kareem may not win the GOAT debate, but he's pretty solidified in the top 3 behind LeBron and Mike. 11 All-Defensive teams, 15 All-NBAs, scoring titles, block titles, he's won damn near everything you can win in the NBA at some point.
Solidified in the 3 spot behind wilt and Russell
Smh Kareem top 3 regardless of what anybody says
lebron top 6
I think that dub point was Kareem never got an opposing talent that people will say belongs in the top 10 of all time .like for example Jordan had to face with shaq,Hakeem,Larry bird,magic,and Kobe then lebron had to face against Kobe,Tim Duncan,Shaq,curry even Kd. Kobe same thing Kareem was a player with no one there to measure him against so people like dub see it and say that's probably inflated types of achievements
He outplayed Wilt during his title run in Mileaukee
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the G.O.A.T. and it's disrespectful that a lot of people don't put them in that G.O.A.T. conversation.
The reason why a lot of people don't put him in that conversation it's because they always say he was a loof and hard to deal with and wasn't very friendly to the media or anyone in general that he didn't keep in his close circle.
If he had the attitude of Shaquille O'Neal he would have been known as the greatest of all time without question hands down by everybody but since his attitude was such a problem people want to nitpick of why he's not in that conversation which is ridiculous.
This man has won the same amount of championships as Jordan has won more season MVPs than Jordan and has won on all different levels from high school, college and the NBA not just once but on multiple times in each stage.
And how also we forget has the most unstoppable shot in NBA history.
Anybody that tries to argue that Kareem shouldn't be in the goat conversation need to not talk about basketball anymore.
He doesn't have an argument now cope
Mj > Kobe > lebron > Kareem
L
@@tyjohnson3111 W
@@zaiah1215
You got three extremely ball dominant player, over the best scorer & 2-way player of the four.
1st, 3rd, 5th, & 130th in RS Career USG%
They rank 73rd, 176th, 42nd & 66th
in Career TS%.
Also 1st, 8th, 5th, & 50th in PS Career USG%
Atleast I know Kareem has proven to fit in any offense 🤷🏾♂️ can’t say the same for the rest.
L.
In no universe is Kobe better than Lebron and I absolutely hate him with a passion
I think his point about player voting is that he thinks players are less susceptible to voter fatigue
A couple of these guys especially the guy in the middle have no clue about the 70s you can tell
I love how Dub and LOW bring up pace and era in their argument because it shows a lack of understanding regarding sports. If what Kareem did was due to the pace and rules in his era how come the rest of the big men era was not doing the same. They are the same type of idiots that say Giannis can't be the best payer in the league because he is not skilled. They say all he does is run and dunk but when you ask how come to the rest of the big men in the league currently doing the same. The answer is the same in both eras' silence. This entire argument proves that despite eras or rules or even pace all-time great players will find a way to be successful like Bron, MJ, Kobe, Steph, Kareem, etc.
LOW has Giannis as the best in the world. I don't know about Dub. But they have a point. Pace and era are a real thing. They are a reason why rebounds in the 50s and 60s are so crazy... When it's adjusted for 100 possessions, they are still phenomenal but not as crazy as it might have initially seemed...
Giannis and the super elite modern guys like KD, Bron and Steph have the same impact because they are in a sense microwave scorers. 30 ppg in 30mpg... That's how they stay impressive.
Case in point, Wilt averaged 50ppg on 40 shots per game... Giannis could do the same thing if he took 40 shots per game...
Wilt's per 100 in his 50ppg season was 40p per 100.
Steph in his unanimous mvp season was 42.5 ppg per 100...
Giannis has a peak per 100 of 44.2 (in 20220)
Basically same pace. So pace and era explain why the 50ppg season happened.
So, the point isn't to dispute Wilt or Kareem's greatness, instead it's to argue that Wilt's 50ppg in the 50s is not necessarily better than Sreph or Giannis 30ppg in the 2020s because they are matching and exceeding the pace of these legendary greats...
Kareem was great but part of that gaudy numbers are a function of pace and era... Kareem in this era would be all time great,...top 3 or 5 all time easy but many won't see it because he doesn't have the pace to prop up his numbers....
Edit: Steph has a peak per 100 of 44.0 in 2021...
@@aidene.nguyen You have a solid argument but it seems that you're confusing the greatest players of all time and the best player of all time. Most people do due to nostalgia or fanboyism. When discussing the greatest players of all time we are talking about how each respective player played in their era and how many accolades and impact they had on their teams to win. When discussing the best player ever we discuss all of it and especially skill, impact, and efficiency. Those players are playing today. This without a doubt the best era of basketball.
@@terriblechristiangamer9128 who's Your Top 3 Shooting Guards of all time
@@deetheoriginal3117 Steph is number 1, Jordan number 2, and Kobe number 3. I have Steph Curry ranked as both the best point guard and shooting guard of all time. Steph Curry is the perfect blend between the two and he revolutionized what a guard is. I do have Jordan and Kobe ranked higher in greatest players due to resumes but that has nothing to do with position. Steph will never reach Jordan in greatness. Kobe on the other hand is not arguably. If Steph wins another ring and FMVP I have him over, Kobe.
@@terriblechristiangamer9128 bro just log off 😂
Why is Kobe Bryant always in conversations he shouldn't be in. Kobe would not have more MVPs if players voted, that's BS. LBJ would have more, Shaq would have more, Tim Duncan would have more but Kobe might not have any. There isn't a single year were Kobe was the clear cut best player in the NBA. He had a nice 10-12 year run but so have a lot of players. And player voting can end up being nothing more than a popularity contest, admittedly i don't think that is a great idea.
For context if players voted Steve Nash probably doesn't get any MVPs. Which would be a tragedy because he definitely deserved the first one but the second is arguable.
Horrible comment 😂
@@atribecalledlen3567 Explain, don’t be scared.
The 3 guys dub named that MJ battles against he didn’t guard nor did they guard him😂
Honestly it's not hard to make a case against Kareem as not being the best nba player of all time. The fact that of all the all time greats he has way too many occasions of being outplayed by his direct matchup (moses MULTIPLE TIMES, hakeem, bill walton, etc). Magic himself talked about how the lakers basically allowed kareem to not play defense or rebound and just focus on scoring which increased his longevity. Missing the playoffs in his prime. To me kareem is somewhat of an underachiever when you look at his sheer ability, talent, and skillset. Considering the fact that he is widely regarded as having the most unstoppable shot of all time why doesn't he have ANY 60pt games and very few 50pt games. He is the TRUE center version of KD in the sense that he is more consistent and efficient than he is explosive and dominant.
Outplayed by Walton?
You sure about that one? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Moses & Hakeem got to Kareem when he wasn’t in his prime…or are you not going to mention that?
Kareem played defense and rebounded 🤦🏾♂️ he just didn’t have to do everything for the Lakers like he was from 76’-79’.
More talent means less work load individually.
Missed in 75’ due to injury and missing 17 games. Missed in 76’ due to an outdated playoff format that put more weight in divisions than the conference as a whole.
Kareem’s volume never got to a point where he would be aiming for 50 & 60 point nights.
I mean his season highs in FGA in 9/20 over his career were over 30 and his seasons highs in FTA in 5/20 over his career were over 20.
He wasn’t getting up shots like how MJ, Wilt, and Kobe were.
Definitely wasn’t as ball dominant.
This might be the worse analysis I’ve seen to dateZ zero credible sources, a bunch of subjectivity, lack of context, and outdated opinions that have been exposed time and time again.
@@tyjohnson3111 someone who actually knows what they’re talking about. Thank you
@@TheIcemanthomas
Likewise 💯
@@TheIcemanthomas Credible sources like series logs from basketball reference from playoff series where he was outplayed by Moses and hakeem? Nick Wright who is the biggest jordan hater of all time speaks about how jordan didnt have multiple playoff series where he underperformed like kareem or bron. During the nearly hour long Kareem video he talks about how kareem was outplayed and outshined by his contemporaries are his biggest case at not being the goat.
Dude in the middle is very hypocritical of what he says, and that's a terrible trait to not see in yourself. He says one, then instantly reneges on it, then thinks he doesn't and attempts to clarify how he's not. Just doesn't make sense.
Mercury retrograde got us all geekin
The guy on the right has the knowledge top right
That guy in the middle left column was annoying me the entire video. He misunderstood every point that was being made.
I think Kareem the goat bc he got 6 rings 6 mvps he has the most points in the nba for the last 35 yrs 4time block leader 19 time all star he has 2 scoring titles need I say more and we can't speak on competition bc I feel it's more competition in today's game then it was in the 90s
What do I have to do to get on this show?? Lol
Bro I respect Dub even tho what he said was foolish but you gotta respect him for respectfully calling Kareem a fraud 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dub said Kareem played against nobody in his prime in 70s.....smh...he played against 12 other HOF centers!!!! Dub is clueless 😂😂😂
For Bron fans losing doesn’t count because Kerr Rodman Harper Horry Havlicek even Derek Fisher has more championships than him so they have to go individual stats this is why Kareem MJ Kobe Magic Duncan are better winning 5 or more championships on the same team
But none of them were the main factors are u sum? Kareem Kobe magic and Duncan don’t have the finals mvps to match chips only Bron and mj do
Duncan has 3 finals MVPs Kareem has 6 regular season MVPs with 2 finals 6-4 5-1 will always be better than 4-6 Duncan never missing the playoffs never got swept and won all his championships on one team Bron in year 20 can’t make the play in tournament still trading half his team
Bron is top 3.
Why is Kobe even in this conversation!? Guy has one MVP and 2 FMVPs (should only be one, Gasol was robbed in 2010), he shouldn't be in this convo!
That's my list Mike Kareem kobe
Kareem has the greatest basketball career from high school to college to the NBA a pure winner
2:15 he snappin
U really can’t go wrong with Kareem either. My only knock to him is being outplayed by a post prime wilt while he was in his prime but other than that, he dominated in what I see as the best era ever in the 70s and his impact is just insane Man’s had an unstoppable hook, deadly fade n turnaround, could put the ball on the floor and run the break, crossovers, can hit long range, great rebounder and defender and one of the best playmakers at his position as well Insane 10 year stretch of prime greatness
To say no one has Kareem as the goat is beyond bugged out but that’s just another reason why it’s a good thing opinions don’t change a players attributes and capabilities
Tbf I think big men are much better ceiling raisers than floor raisers and that's part of the reason why he couldn't drag a bad team to the playoffs
Guy dominated on every level of basketball. Yup, lets penalize him for it.
Kareem is without question top 3 of all time. I have him #3 behind MJ and Lebron but the more I think about the argument the more I want to bump him above Lebron.
This why we need a old head in the debate
Kobe being top 3 makes no sense 🤷🏾♂️
If you use Shaq to slight Kobe you have to use the that same dumb ass logic to slight Kareem with magic
The hate for this man is ridiculous man y'all need to really check yourselves boy hating is a disease I feel all you guys weakness too
This panel smelled what the "The Rock was Cooking"
what
All due respect most guys in there didn't see Kareem they going off Google stats and highlights FR
I always believed Kareem was the most accomplished player in basketball history. when I look at his basketball career at every level multi Championships and MVP's at every level he is the greatest college basketball player of all time and he's is in the GOAT conversation.
Kareem top 2 player of all time
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Bill Russell
MJvs Kareem debatable
You mean they was battling Kobe lol
AI
Mac
Vince
B. Roy
Melo
Bron
Duncan
Nash
Sacramento Queens
Pacers
Wade
Rose
Dwight
Pierce
Ray
KG
Dirk
J Kidd
KD
Etc.........
Dub took an L
Looking past Kareem’s resume with literally any context at all and you’ll quickly realize he has no goat case.
Kareem is the only one who’s goat case solely depends on his resume
But there were players that couldn’t stand Kareem lmao
Kareem wasn't a Fraud he was a BEAST
But Hakeem is the GOAT CENTER.
Beat MAGIC and Kareem in his second year when he had a squad. Hakeem on the Lakers or (bulls with Mike, the equivalent of Kareem with magic) probably wins 8-10 rings.
Also
DR J IS EXTREMELY UNDERRATED
And an argument can be made that PRIME dr j was better.
If players voted for MJ he'd have 12 MVPS lol
Prime Dr.J wasn’t better than Kareem.
That’s asinine.
Players wouldn’t have voted MJ MVP 12 times. If they didn’t for Bill, Wilt, or Kareem. They wouldn’t for MJ.
8-10 rings is some real fanboy shit.
@@tyjohnson3111 If YOU think the GOAT defender (Hakeem) in his prime plus magic or Michael ain't pulling a bill Russell you WILD.
✌
@@IknowMoreThanYou he’s not, Kareem was very old and pretty much leaving his prime. I’m pretty sure yea if Kareem had gotten magic in 75 or 76 he stocks on more rings, but he didn’t, he got magic late. I mean while it’s not magic, having both Drexler and Barkley is help in an era where most teams have one to two really good players, and to not have a berth in the finals in pretty much the same stage that Kareem got magic. Yes Barkley and Drexler deteriorated while Magic got better, but Hakeem also deteriorated much more rapidly then Kareem ever did and had the scenarios been swapped, Hakeem would never have an 85 finals mvp at 38 and would never be a focal point to the offense.
@@MrSlashblade It's not comparable at all. Barkley and clyde were washed as well as dream. The only way for your comparison to work is if Dream had the equivalent of an early PRIME MAGIC or Early PRIME Michael at that same stage of his career lol I'm pretty sure having magic from Age 32 on played a BIG part in Kareems longevity, so we can't say Dream deteriorates given the same. I love Kareem and he has a claim to GOAT but im not taking him over Dream. Y'all get caught up in brand names and the mythmaking machine and then downplay obvious greatness of something never seen before like Hakeem. Same reason the American myth making machine been trying to hold on to KD over Giannis for years, even going as far as to say that a 7 footer who's the primary ballhandler and creater of offense for himself and others is somehow not skilled😂😂😂.
Once people get hold of those narratives it's hard to let go.
We get it
High school he was dominant
College He was dominant
NBA he dominated against a washed wilt and had no competition in his class for nearly a decade and then GOT magic and completed the resume.
Gimme Dream
@@IknowMoreThanYou
No, you’re delusional.
You have no solid premise to actually even determine that type of hypothetical. 🤡
Kareem played with Magic in his 30s, just like Oscar played with Kareem in his 30s.
Hakeem played with Sampson who was 2/3 years apart in age, which is the same as MJ playing with Pippen.
You give Kareem as a rookie Oscar in his 20s or Magic in his 20s and he actually could challenge for Bill’s 11.
You give a rookie Oscar Kareem and he gets to the Finals multiple seasons in the 60s.
You give Magic a rookie Kareem in the 80s and they’ll be All-NBA caliber together for 15-17 years minimum.
I agree staying away from accolades. Its a media award. Whoever is loved by the media wins it. Kobe should have atleast 4 mvps. Nash should have 0. Bron shouldve had the year rose won it. Cp3 the year kobe won it. Like its bs. Shaq got mvp of the finals 3 years but played subpar centers from the east while kobe destroyed the west which back then was the real championship. The finals was just a formality. Its circumstances and context wothin winning these things. I cant argue with his 3 list. I have kobe 2nd and magic 3rd, kareem 4th. But accolades since melo got snubbed for mvp jas just been a nba push. Bs
I got Kareem at 4
Kareem isn’t in the goat debate. He couldn’t win without the greatest point guard ever, when he was on his own he missed the playoffs in his prime, and about 2 of his rings came as 2-3rd options. For me he’s in the magic, Duncan, Kobe argument for 3rd
Yawn trolll
Og arguing with young boys over something they gotta look up is sad. Wet behind the ears is what most of them are. An to use no accolades then Bill Russell would be the best? Because using how they play on the court it's people we don't talk about that had amazing games just not All-stars /superstars
If we talking stats kareem have 7k more rebounds & 2k more blocks , 5 more defensive players 1 more chip 1 more MVP than Bron acourse he's top 3
Kareem deserved 6 MVP's, LeBron maybe e deserves 1 or 2 more, Jordan probably deserved about 3 more
Kareem has a case, but it's hurt with him not winning 5 of his 6 championships until Magic came around.
Kareem pre Magic
28.6ppg
14.8rpg
4.5apg
1.3 spg
3.5bpg
5 MVP'S
1 Finals' MVP
Kareem with Magic
20.6ppg
7.6rpg
2.8apg
0.7spg
2.0bpg
1 MVP
1 Finals' MVP
Magic with Kareem
19.5ppg
7.4apg
11.2apg
2.0spg
0.4bpg
3 Finals' MVP
2 MVP'S
Kareem played with *25 All Stars & atleast 9 HOFs (Chappell 1x, DANDRIDGE 4x, McGlockin 1x, Robinson 1x, RODGERS 4x, OSCAR 12x, Boozer 1x, Block 1x, Rule 1x, Price 1x, GOODRICH 5x, Russell 1x, Washington 1x, DANTLEY 6x, Hudson 6x, Nixon 2x, Scott 5x, Wilkes 3x, HAYWOOD 5x, MAGIC 12x, MCADOO 5x, Mix 1x, WORTHY 7x, Green 1x, Lucas 5x)*
Kareem’s Bucks (1970-75):
Big O was an All Star from 1961-1972
Dandridge was an All Star in 1973 & 1975
Robinson was an All Star in 1970
Price was an All Star in 1975
Kareem’s Lakers (1976-1989):
Nixon was an All Star in 1982
Wilkes was an All Star in 1981 & 1983
Magic was an All Star in 1980 & 1982-91
Worthy was an All Star from 1986-92
-------------------------
KAREEM- (‘71-74, ‘76 & 77, ‘80 & 81, ‘84 & ‘86 1st Team; ‘70, ‘78 & 79, ‘83, ‘85 2nd Team)
Oscar- (‘71 2nd Team)
Bob- N/A
Robinson- NONE
Price- NONE
Nixon- NONE
Wilkes- NONE
Magic- (‘82 2nd Team; ‘83-89 1st)
Worthy- N/A
Number of All-NBA teammates per season:
0, 1*, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0*, 0, 1*, 1, 1, 1*, 1, 1*,1*
Correction
No kareem didnt deserve all of his mvps
Kareem wasnt even in playoffs and had worse stats than Bob Mcadoo when he stole one of his MVPs
In the 1976 season (40-42), the Lakers were 7th of 18 in offense & 13th of 18 in defense; scoring the 3rd most PPG while giving up the 17th most.
However, this team had a better record than 2 West teams in the Midwest Division-38-44 Bucks & 36-46 Pistons who made the playoffs as they were the top 2 in that division. The Suns in comparison were 42-40; 3rd in the Pacific Division and the 3rd seed in the West.
Kareem also averaged 28/17/5/2/4 in 41 MPG on 53% FG (11/21 per game) & 70% FT (6/8 per game) with no All Star help that season 🤫
Taking home the MVP that year
*Gail 1972-1975* ⤵️
25/3/5 on 52% TS (10/21 FG & 5/6 FT per g)
*GAIL 1976* ⤵️
20/3/6 on 50% TS (8/18 FG & 4/6 FT per g)
Lower FTr & lower TREB%
Kareem was ranked 2nd in PPG, *1st in RPG* , 11th in APG, T-11th in SPG, *1st in BPG* , 2nd in BLK%, 3rd in TREB%, 2nd in DREB%, 5th in EFG%, 8th in TS%, *1st in MPG* , *1st in OWS & DWS* , & T-2nd in Defensive Rating.
********************************
Firstly there was 18 teams-not 16 which is the reason why the 1st seeds in each conference had a bye to the ECSF & WCSF respectively to face the winner of the 4/5 matchup.
5 teams each make the playoffs in each conference-so 10/18 teams make the playoffs.
10 of 18 teams in 1976 were under .500, ranging from 40-42 LA Lakers & *Eastern Conference* HOU Rockets to Western Conference Chicago Bulls @ 24-58.
At the time both conferences were separated by 2 divisions.
In the West, all the 4 Midwest Division teams had a worst record than the Lakers.
The Lakers *(4th in Pacific, 4th in West)*
had a better record than 2 West teams in the Midwest Division-
38-44 Bucks *(1st in Midwest, 5th in West)* &
36-46 Pistons *(2nd in Midwest, 7th in West)* who made the playoffs as they were the top 2 in that division--but were the 4th & 5th seeds in the West First Round Playoff facing against each other 🤔
The Suns in comparison were 42-40 *(3rd in Pacific, 3rd in West)*
Prior to 2005, NBA division champions were seeded higher than the other teams in their conference, regardless of their record.
Prior to 2004, when the NBA was aligned into two conferences with two divisions each, the division champions were guaranteed the top two seeds.
This meant that top two teams in a conference (by record) would be seeded either first and second (if they were in opposite divisions) or first and third (if they were in the same division).
Because of the NBA playoffs' preset matchups in the second round, this meant that the top two teams in a conference could never meet until the conference finals, assuming they both made it to that round.
********************************
First off the NBA went to 4 divisions across 2 conferences for the first time in 1971 with an increased number of teams.
In 1970, there was 14 teams separated by 2 conferences *(East & West)*
In 1971, there was 17 teams separated by 4 divisions into 2 conferences
*(East: Atlantic & Central, West: Midwest & Pacific)*
Eight teams still qualified, four from each conference. Hence, the division semifinals and division finals came to be known as conference semifinals and conference finals, respectively.
The top two teams in each division qualified as the Eastern Conference, comprising the Atlantic and Central divisions, while the Western Conference consisted of the Midwest and Pacific divisions.
The first place team from one division would face the second place team of the other division within their conference.
In the conference playoffs, a division winner always held home-court advantage over a second place team regardless of record.
*71’ BOS (44-38): 3rd in Atlantic; 3rd in EAST*
*71’ PHO (48-34): 3rd in Midwest; T-3rd in WEST*
*71’ DET (45-37): 4th in Midwest; 4th in WEST*
All due to an outdated rule missing out on playoff basketball.
Instead in the East,
You had a
*42-40 Bullets team (1971 Eastern Conference Champs; 1st in Central & 4th in East)* make it *(Central Div. Weakest That Season)*
alongside a
*36-46 Hawks team (2nd in Central, 5th in East)*
____________________
In the West, you had a
*48-34 Lakers team (1st in Pacific, T-3rd in West)* and a
*41-41 Warriors team (2nd in Pacific, 6th in West)*
*The only two years where this “problem occurs” since the expanding into 4 divisions separated by 2 conferences is 1971 & 1976-the year before the merger that added a 6th seed 🤔*
Bob had an All-NBA teammate; who did Kareem have?
Kareem has a case when you look at accomplishments. But tbh he doesn’t have a real argument, Dub said it best, during Kareem’s prime years he had no comp, nobody to challenge him, he has benefited from the phenomenal guards he played with, Big O and Magic with that fully loaded lakers teams. Kareem was always the best player. Did have variety in his game really. Had tons of help. While guys like MJ, Lebron, Kobe had to STRUGGLE and play with bad teams until they got someone or someone else deemed them ready.
@Ocean Lives Nobody was high and Kareem didn’t have someone who you could say oh this guy is a big problem in terms of matchups and centers. You named non centers and that’s not what I’m talking about. In todays game ppl say things like “it’s Lebron vs Embiid” when bron is a small forward and embiid is a center so they wouldn’t matchup. I’m talking matchup, and Kareem did have a big matchup that was a serious issue. And as I said he benefitted from not having to face teams without the big O and Magic. Jordan and the bulls beat magic and Kareem, old or not if he was good enough to contribute to a finals bound team he was good enough to play in that series. He loss and it’s that simple.
@Ocean Lives the problem with basketball debates is that y’all use someone being old as a cop out to avoid saying the person loss. If Kareem made was so old he wouldn’t have made the finals again, if he would’ve won nobody would be saying he so old but cause he LOST it’s a ohhh he was old. When bron finally beat the Celtics with the heat nobody brought up pierce and Garnett were in there LATE 30’s and ray allen were a few years from retirement. Cut it out
@@IconicUniverse4L MVP Artis-7’2, 240
(6x All Star, 1x All-Defense)
MVP Wilt-7’1, 275
(10x All-NBA, 13x All-Star, 2x All-Defense)
Lanier-6’11, 250
(8x All Star)
Sikma-6’11, 230
(7x All Star, 1x All-Defense)
Thurmond-6’11, 225
(7x All Star, 5x All-Defense)
MVP/6MOTY Walton-6’11, 210
(2x All-NBA, 2x All Star, 2x All-Defense)
MVP Willis Reed-6’10, 235
(5x All-NBA, 7x All Star, 1x All-Defense)
MVP Moses-6’10, 215
(8x All-NBA, 10x All Star, 2x All-Defense)
Elvin Hayes-6’9, 235
(6x All-NBA, 12x All Star, 2x All-Defense)
MVP Cowens-6’9, 230
(3x All-NBA, 8x All Star, 3x All-Defense)
Jerry Lucas-6’9, 215
(5x All-NBA, 7x All Star)
MVP McAdoo-6’9, 210
(2x All-NBA, 5x All Star)
MVP Haywood-6’8, 225
(4x All-NBA, 5x All Star)
MVP Unseld-6’7, 245
(1x All-NBA, 5x All Star)
1970’s All-NBA:
=========================
Kareem (9x)
Cowens (3x)
Walton (2x)
McAdoo (2x)
Reed (2x)
Moses (1x)
Wilt (1x)
=========================
Hondo (7x)
Elvin (6x)
Barry (4x)
Haywood (4x)
Cunningham (3x)
Gus Johnson (2x)
Dr. J (2x)
Walter Davis (2x)
Love (2x)
McGinnis (2x)
Hawkins (1x)
David Thompson (1x)
Dandridge (1x)
Marques Johnson (1x)
Mo Lucas (1x)
Truck (1x)
=========================
Frazier (6x)
Tiny (4x)
West (4x)
Pistol (4x)
Gervin (3x)
Westphal (3x)
Bing (2x)
JoJo White (2x)
Big O (2x)
Chenier (1x)
Ford (1x)
Phil Smith (1x)
Clark (1x)
David Thompson (1x)
Goodrich (1x)
Van Lier (1x)
Randy Smith (1x)
World B. Free (1x)
Hudson (1x)
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Kareem (9x)
Hondo (7x)
Elvin & Frazier (6x)
Barry, Haywood, Tiny, West & Pistol (4x)
Cowens, Cunningham, Gervin, Westphal (3x)
Walton, McAdoo, Reed, Gus Johnson, Dr. J,
Walter Davis, Love, McGinnis, Bing, JoJo,
Big O, David Thompson (2x)
Moses, Wilt, Hawkins, Dandridge, Marques,
Mo Lucas, Truck, Chenier, Ford, Phil Smith, Clark, Goodrich, Van Lier, Randy Smith, Hudson & World B. Free (1x)
@@IconicUniverse4L Oscar wasn’t even in his prime when they did win in 71’. He fell out of stardom by 73’.
Bobby D couldn’t reach an All NBA level until he left MIL later in the 70s to team up with Unseld & Hayes.
Look at the championship teams in the 70s.
Kareem had an All NBA teammate for one season in that decade and he was able to win a championship.
The Celtics & Knicks were the only teams to win multiple championships in the 70s and both teams clearly had more talent than what Kareem had to play alongside with.
You keep saying “he should have/he was supposed to dominate the 70s”; but in the same breath you refuse to acknowledge who Kareem had to play with when comparing it to others in separate decades.
It makes no sense to me.
That’s as “binary” of a statement as you can make.
In 1970’s ECF, Rookie Kareem had 1x All Star Flynn Robinson as arguably his best teammate that season.
In 1974’s Finals, Kareem didn’t even have THAT luxury of an All Star Teammate.
Yet, you will tell me that he should have essentially single handedly beat teams with 2/3 All Stars consistently in the playoffs.
Yeah; the only two years (75’ & 78’) Kareem missed significant time-when there was only 1 All Star on the championship team.
The irony.
Those other players clearly had more help than Kareem did, and you’re not willing to admit that for some reason.
You give Kareem *ONE* All Star or *ONE* All NBA player in those seven seasons, and he guarantees you a championship.
Simply put.
Kareem didn’t play with 1 All-NBA caliber player from 73’-79’.
*NBA 1973-79’⤵️*
All-NBA Players Combined on Chip Teams➡️6
All-Def. Players Combined on Chip Teams➡️9
All Star Players Combined on Chip Teams➡️15
The only “All Stars” he played with were Jim Price & Bobby D in 75’; when he was hurt.
I wonder how the team did in his absence vs. when he came back 🤔.
They were weak selections.
The Celtics weren’t “stacked” in the mid-70s pre-merger? 🤔
Cowens & Hondo were All-NBA caliber, being flanked by an All Star in JoJo White-and guys like Silas/Chaney, who were All-Def. caliber in their own right.
Seems pretty stacked to me 🤷🏾♂️
Even more stacked that those Knicks 🤔
There was plenty of teams with multiple All NBA & All Star talent in the 70s…
I’d say 3+ All Stars/2+ All-NBAs is what constitutes a “superteam” 🤔
Therefore, by that “definition” the⤵️
70’s Knicks, 71’ Bucks, 72’ Lakers,
73’ Knicks, 74’ Celtics, & 76’ Celtics-are considered “superteams”; and their records would hold suit to that.
Kareem had in that span between 73’-79’
2 All Star teammates, who I told you had weak All Star campaigns in 75’ when Kareem was hurt.
Aside from that, who else did he have in any particular season that was of the caliber that could make that team a “super team” or “stacked”?
In those 7 seasons, the championship teams averaged nearly a combined of 1 All-NBA talent, 1 All-Def. talent, and just over 2 All-NBA talents.
You can’t name one player that was All-NBA, All-Def., or an All Star on Kareem’s teams from 76’-79’ during the Pre-Magic era.
And you can’t name one player that was All-NBA, All-Def., or an All Star on Kareem’s teams from 73’-75’ (aside from Jim Price & Bobby D).
Magic and him share a 1 Win Share difference between 80’-86’ and 8 Win Share difference between 80’-87’.
Clearly they were affecting the Lakers’ success on a similar level for a majority of their run together in different ways.
With what you’ve said, it seems like you’re asking a 40 year old to preform at an All-NBA level--which had never been done before in history (especially by MJ)…especially alongside a player in their prime who plays at an All-NBA & MVP caliber.
@@IconicUniverse4L
Kareem wasn’t in the Finals in 91’. Lol
When you are so far ahead of the competition whys that there was no competition why you always compare great with great but when they’re just that much better than the then competition you bias???
Kareem is the real goat. He has stats and achievements to beat MJ and the longevity of a Lebron.
This dude don’t understand when Kareem miss the playoffs he miss a lot of games Lmao. Dub sound crazy staying he was dominating solo. Really makes himself sound like he don’t know the history of the game. He literally said players don’t vote good then said no I didn’t I’m saying other players will have more you don’t have any proof of that shit. Did Kareem get all 6 MVP FROM
PLAYER VOTE OR 4. James might have less then 4 if players voted lmao
In 1975, Oscar contentiously retired and Jabbar broke his hand punching a basket stanchion to start the year.
Dandridge regressed and the Bucks played at a 49-win pace (2.6 SRS) when healthy.
They also lost Curtis Perry to the expansion draft (New Orleans Jazz), and traded Lucius Allen for Jim Price-who would only play 41 games.
As a scorer who drew constant defensive attention, the offensive drop-off (of approximately 7 efficiency points) without Jabbar is understandable.
Dandridge barely fell off without Kareem in that 17 game span because he could create his own offense
*21/8/3 on 51% TS, 9/19 FGM & 3/4 FTM per game*,
but a finisher like Jon McGlocklin - a deadly outside shooter at the time - was reliant on an offensive vortex like Jabbar to draw his man away and create easy looks.
Bob only missed two games after Kareem came back
*(Cap went for 37/14/8 with 4 BLK on 62% TS--Win & 50/15/11/1/3 on 68% TS--Win)*
In those games without Kareem, Milwaukee stumbled along at a 28-win pace (-4.5 SRS).
With Kareem in the lineup, they played at a 49 Win Pace (35-30 in 65 GP).
49 Wins puts them where again in the West?
1st…after Golden State (48-34) and the Chicago Bulls (47-35), as well as tied with the Buffalo Braves for the 2nd best overall record.
He left a solid footprint on defense too, which jibes with the box score and his positive tendencies on tape.
In addition to the 6 point drop in opponent shooting efficiency from his missed games in ’75, his man defense was a plus as well.
By ’75, Kareem was said to be brooding, no longer wanting to play in Milwaukee for off-court reasons.
*He was deeply effected at that point by the 1973 Hanafi Muslim massacre.*
________________________
____________________
In the 1975 season (38-44), the Bucks were 9th in offense, 8th in defense, 8th in net rating, 13th in points scored per game & 5th in points allowed per game.
Kareem only played the last 65 of 82 games where they were 35-30 with him & 3-14 without him in the first 17 games of the season.
They finished 4th in the Midwest Division & tied for 6th in the conference. It should be noted that the DET Pistons in their division @40-42 & NYK in the Atlantic Division in the East @40-42 both made the playoffs as the final seed (5th).
Kareem averaged 30/14/4/1/3 in 42 MPG on
51% FG (13/24 per game) & 76% FT (5/7 per game) coming in 5th in MVP
Kareem was 3rd in PPG, 5th in RPG, 1st in BPG, T-18th in APG, T-16th in SPG, 3rd in BLK%, 9th in TREB%, 4th in DREB%, 4th in EFG%, T-11th in TS%, 2nd in MPG, 2nd in WS (6th in OWS-8th in DWS), & T-5th in Defensive Rating that season. 🤷🏾♂️
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the 1976 season (40-42), the Lakers were 7th of 18 in offense & 13th of 18 in defense; scoring the 3rd most PPG while giving up the 17th most.
However, this team had a better record than 2 West teams in the Midwest Division-38-44 Bucks & 36-46 Pistons who made the playoffs as they were the top 2 in that division. The Suns in comparison were 42-40; 3rd in the Pacific Division and the 3rd seed in the West.
Kareem also averaged 28/17/5/2/4 in 41 MPG on 53% FG (11/21 per game) & 70% FT (6/8 per game) with no All Star help that season 🤫
Taking home the MVP that year
*Gail 1972-1975* ⤵️
25/3/5 on 52% TS (10/21 FG & 5/6 FT per g)
*GAIL 1976* ⤵️
20/3/6 on 50% TS (8/18 FG & 4/6 FT per g)
Lower FTr & lower TREB%
Kareem was ranked 2nd in PPG, *1st in RPG* , 11th in APG, T-11th in SPG, *1st in BPG* , 2nd in BLK%, 3rd in TREB%, 2nd in DREB%, 5th in EFG%, 8th in TS%, *1st in MPG* , *1st in OWS & DWS* , & T-2nd in Defensive Rating.
********************************
Firstly there was 18 teams-not 16 which is the reason why the 1st seeds in each conference had a bye to the ECSF & WCSF respectively to face the winner of the 4/5 matchup.
5 teams each make the playoffs in each conference-so 10/18 teams make the playoffs.
10 of 18 teams in 1976 were under .500, ranging from 40-42 LA Lakers & *Eastern Conference* HOU Rockets to Western Conference Chicago Bulls @ 24-58.
At the time both conferences were separated by 2 divisions.
In the West, all the 4 Midwest Division teams had a worst record than the Lakers.
The Lakers *(4th in Pacific, 4th in West)*
had a better record than 2 West teams in the Midwest Division-
38-44 Bucks *(1st in Midwest, 5th in West)* &
36-46 Pistons *(2nd in Midwest, 7th in West)* who made the playoffs as they were the top 2 in that division--but were the 4th & 5th seeds in the West First Round Playoff facing against each other 🤔
The Suns in comparison were 42-40 *(3rd in Pacific, 3rd in West)*
Prior to 2005, NBA division champions were seeded higher than the other teams in their conference, regardless of their record.
Prior to 2004, when the NBA was aligned into two conferences with two divisions each, the division champions were guaranteed the top two seeds.
This meant that top two teams in a conference (by record) would be seeded either first and second (if they were in opposite divisions) or first and third (if they were in the same division).
Because of the NBA playoffs' preset matchups in the second round, this meant that the top two teams in a conference could never meet until the conference finals, assuming they both made it to that round.
********************************
First off the NBA went to 4 divisions across 2 conferences for the first time in 1971 with an increased number of teams.
In 1970, there was 14 teams separated by 2 conferences *(East & West)*
In 1971, there was 17 teams separated by 4 divisions into 2 conferences
*(East: Atlantic & Central, West: Midwest & Pacific)*
Eight teams still qualified, four from each conference. Hence, the division semifinals and division finals came to be known as conference semifinals and conference finals, respectively.
The top two teams in each division qualified as the Eastern Conference, comprising the Atlantic and Central divisions, while the Western Conference consisted of the Midwest and Pacific divisions.
The first place team from one division would face the second place team of the other division within their conference.
In the conference playoffs, a division winner always held home-court advantage over a second place team regardless of record.
*71’ BOS (44-38): 3rd in Atlantic; 3rd in EAST*
*71’ PHO (48-34): 3rd in Midwest; T-3rd in WEST*
*71’ DET (45-37): 4th in Midwest; 4th in WEST*
All due to an outdated rule missing out on playoff basketball.
Instead in the East,
You had a
*42-40 Bullets team (1971 Eastern Conference Champs; 1st in Central & 4th in East)* make it *(Central Div. Weakest That Season)*
alongside a
*36-46 Hawks team (2nd in Central, 5th in East)*
____________________
In the West, you had a
*48-34 Lakers team (1st in Pacific, T-3rd in West)* and a
*41-41 Warriors team (2nd in Pacific, 6th in West)*
*The only two years where this “problem occurs” since the expanding into 4 divisions separated by 2 conferences is 1971 & 1976-the year before the merger that added a 6th seed 🤔*
Dr J would have at least 1 of Kareem's first 4 MVP awards if the merger happened sooner
MJ has the same accolades as Kareem in 7 fewer eligible seasons
Kareem is 2nd all time for me behind MJ
???
No ??? needed man I know Kareem’s your guy, we’ve done our dance already, you had some good takes most were bad though
Peace
I don’t see the how he can definitively say that Abdul-Jabbar is better than Dr. J. I think if Dr. J was in the NBA he would most definitely affected the amount of MVPs that Abdul-Jabbar get.
You know Dr. J was drafted by the Bucks right?
The thing all these talking heads avoid, is coming up with a criteria for GOAT. They fear it because their guy won’t measure up. That’s right,even Jordan.
So here it is. Criteria for the GOAT;
MUST be in the conversation of greatest high school player ever
MUST be in the conversation of greatest college player ever
MUST be in the conversation of greatest professional player ever
MUST have won titles on all three levels
MUST be stellar on both sides of the
MUST have garnered at least FIVE league MVP awards
This equates to only one player…KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR!
I think Steph will have more mvp then lebron if we go off player voting everyone n da league respect curry lebron get the fan votes
Russell?