Gil's Arena GETS REAL On Why LeBron Doesn't Have More Rings
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 05. 2024
- Gil's Arena GETS REAL On Why LeBron James Doesn't Have More Rings as Gilbert Arenas, John Salley & The Gil's Arena Crew debate the idea that LeBron James isn't a system player and explain why he needs the structure & coaching of the Triangle Offense if he wants to catch up to Kobe Bryant & Michael Jordan.
Gil’s Arena premieres every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at 11:30am PT / 2:30pm ET.
Sign up for Underdog Fantasy HERE with promo code GIL and get up to $250 in Bonus Cash and A Special Pick: play.underdogfantasy.com/p-gi...
SUBSCRIBE: / @gilsarena
Join the Underdog discord for access to exclusive giveaways and promos!
/ discord - Sport
It was Doug Collins who said "get the ball to Michael and get the hell out of the way", not Phil Jackson.
also that was ONE TIME
that was NOT the complete chicago bulls plan
he literally said that ONCE
@@taireedillardNo he doesn’t lol
@@taireedillard All of Jordan's rings did come in the triangle under Phil. 91/92/93/96/97/98. Collins made that statement in 1988. Phil became coach in 1990 and brought the triangle with him.
@taireedillard which one?
Collins way of coaching is why MJ failed so much and suffered 2 sweeps.
Salley was partially right. Phil Jackson said the triangle was designed to get role players shots, not the stars. He said MJ could get any shot at any time, but the triangle allowed the role players to stay involved in the offense.
So he wasn't on the team huh...he partially right cuz u seen some clip somewhere one day ....u people say anything I swear.
@@BHoodInk fucking thank you. like wtf the dude was literally there. fuck what one clip says. this dude is giving an indepth description, knowing the info can't be used against him in a game.
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
I think he kinda said playing against the triangle forced you to touched the open guy before helping to defend MJ
Gilbert..Phil Jackson was a ‘newbie’ Coach before he won with Michael Jordan
Record sales doesn't mean the music is good. It just means it's popular.
When you say that to an Eminem fan, they storm the Capitol
Prime example is Drake
@@mg19cal Em fans are Pop fans not Hip Hop fans.
Facts
On the flip side...sometimes it means both.
Love that actual players discuss instead of never played talking heads. Great conversation.
Good point
SAS = lavar ball
“Well I’ve been watching the show…You don’t. You don’t not like LeBron”~ John Salley
Comedic timing was clutch 😂 💎
Definitely klutch😄
🤣🤣
😂
Called out the obvious.
Definitely must've got his ass whipped by lebron his whole short career
Lebron should never be compared to MJ and Kobe. Lebron created his own lane and blueprint for success. All of them are the great.
At least LeBron's Cavs played triangle offense. John Salley talks baloney nearly as much as Gil.
It’s about how that’s what yall don’t get but okay not here to argue an I like lebron he dose have his own game his longevity is incredible
The only blueprint he created was how to join up with all stars and buy rings.
@@iwishiwasthomasshelby they all had all stars on their team dumb ass
Lebron has as many rings as Steph Curry. Not the goat, but the 2nd best player ever.
the system don't mean sh*t if you don't have players like MJ, Kobe, Shaq. We saw what happened in NY
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂, 🤷🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️Now why U gotta go an use NEW YORK as a example?? LOL 😂 🤣 😆 😅😅😅🤣🤣😅😅😅😅🤦🏿🤦🏿🤣😅😅😅😅😅😅💯✊🏾🖤
New York never had an elite player next to Melo at or near a prime.
@@marcuskennedy7357 Melo to me is a great scorer, not a 2 way player like MJ or Kobe, not even on D wade or Duucan’s level
@@marcuskennedy7357 They really tried to run the triangle with Noah and Dalembert 😂
@@user-qe2vq3ve1bdoesn’t matter, none of those players won without that specific system. They never proved they could.
40k career points w/o a bag is quite impressive Rashad 😂😂
6'8" 240,280,260 That's pretty hard to stop coming straight at you.
Right
@@libraalibaba how is that lebrons fault lol that’s how he was born why wouldn’t he use that to his advantage
@@TaliiPlays just saying he couldnt do that at 6'3" which imo makes Kyrie better than Lebron. Imagine if Kyrie was that size with same skill set lol
Not impressive if all I have to do is truck my way to the rim for easy points or foul shots. And if they send extra defenders I’ll just throw it to my shooters standing in the corner so they can bail me out.
Compared to , having a killer mentality and having multiple offensive options like ball handling, shooting 3s, post up, step back, finish at rim etc. I have a deeper bag AND I HAVE MORE CHIPS. I think that’s impressive
Jennings got me hot from saying malik monk better than donovan mitchell
Bro was just arguing up and down mike was the goat couple months ago Brandon is starting to learn tv I think😭 because the man will say anything
To this day mans had me heated
40,50,50,70,40,60..make it make sense is all I ask..& they give us right to criticize them when they criticize players whose career double lap theirs..nasty work..talking bout ”Devin Booker can go” what you just say?
True Indeed and slighting Donavan Mitchell
Jennings is a complete airhead! He's afraid to go against Gilbert's takes even when it's complete nonsense!
Mccants will make a great argument poorly
Perfect way to describe him
😂😂😂😂
He be right though and wrong 😭
😂😂😂😂
@sportstalkonly1442 if McCants your lawyer you doing life for a parking ticket and you ain't even got a car.
This was the most introspective and informative discussion I've heard on this topic, really got me thinking.
John Salley schooled them young boys with his basketball knowledge.
Yep he’s a og
Mccants tried to deny the fact he don’t like Lebron & Sally said “ I’ve been watching the show you don’t “ 🤣😭😭
Why should a grown man like another man. It's not personal its facts. Bron has female energy. Men don't like to hang out with woman. Those who do men don't respect. Men like bron needs to be worship.
And Gil tries to deny the fact that’s he’s not biased. He’s biased against 90s basketball
@@ryanmatt5541 everyone is biased, just like you’re biased, I’m biased, no one is objective when it comes to sports. Anyone that says otherwise is lying
@@danielsims916 🎯🎯🎯
He try so hard every time to put Kobe into the MJ and Lebron conversation 😂😂
Am I crazy that I completely understand Mccants this episode?
Edit: Nevermind. This blunt hittin.
lol
Yes 😅🤞🏽
😂😂😂
Steve Kerr said the triangle wasn't for MJ and Pippen, because they were gifted enough to be able to score in any offense.. It was more so for everyone else on the team..
If we gonna use the label analogy then Lebron's 1st two accolades would be like an artist doing a real hot feature on someone's else album. He didn't win until he joined or as people say formed a super team. Miami was D Wade's team. Respectfully
Miami wasnt doing anything as Dwades team but getting bounced from the 1st round until Wade called Lebron who was a free agent yall act like the man demanded a trade out of Cleveland he was there for 7 years and took that team of nobodies to the Finals. Wade had Alonzo Mourning, Shaq and Gary Payton on that 06 squad. Players dont win chips by themselves.
If we use the music analogy for Jordan he would be Eminem…incredible in his own lane and aggressive but most importantly, Part of an incredible engine set up for success. (Dre is Phil) But when you look at everything, you’d see he’s not the most complete artist. People simple prefer the consistent shock value and aggressiveness…he’s highly decorated with awards but fans only see him and Dre but not D-12 and management. (Teammates)
Lebron would be Prince…Multifaceted with consistency and longevity.
One is a rapper in arguably the best system…one is independent and incredibly successful with their own established engine because the labels (teams) jerked him.
Only comparison is…they’re both artists. Different styles, different fans…
One could easily say Prince is more successful and his fans understand that he plays many instruments, writes songs and puts on a great show.
John Salley created this chaos and just sitting back enjoying it 🤣 20:55
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
Lol 🤣🤣🤣
Nice twist having him on the podcast
Exactly lol
Exactly! John just be saying stuff😂
Lebron use to have a system:
Surround him with shooters.
lol... that just Allen Iverson 2001 drive n dish.
@@mrblend FACTS 😂
They couldn't even find him good shooters other than old shooters like Miller, Korver, Allen. Did he get a young Reddick? No
@@JohnnytNatural They got the players he wanted. How do y'all forget. None of the players play their game. They wait til he runs the clock down & hr wants someone to make a shot with no rhythm & he plays no defense.. yikes!
@@mrblend lol thats just the college basket ball system lol
Good healthy convo . I love it 👏
great convo
"I'm just being serious” 😂😂
He sucks just a bench player
And Lebron is nowhere near Mike.
He was a first round pick how would he be coming off the bennnnnch💡🤨😐.......🤔💭........waiiiitt a minute your just a casual aren't you?..... and aren't you a🧌 too???wait your one of those casual🧌's???🤯first time meeting one nowww I get it 😐.........if you don't get the fook outta here with that 🐂-💩🙄😮💨
@@Daniel-lf7umI’ll take the money and the rings along with the extended career to sit on the bench then.
@@Daniel-lf7um you are retarded
15:40 “this is a great analogy, I’m stealing this for a segment”😂😂
He learned to listen😂
did you see how Mccants was looking when John Salley said Gil would make a great coach...27:33
I agree with Sally! I’m not a player. But this show, was the Best that I’ve seen on Gills show. Great Minds; great Minds. You all have helped me understand the histories and individuals, and with the game is today and where it’s going tomorrow. You remain blessed.
McCants has solid opening points, that he just consistently drops the ball with.
I was agreeing with him until he said lebron doesn’t have a bag smh
Because he never had a point. He tried to piggy back off of John Sally point!
@@Mmmkay.. yeah thats one of the weirdest things being said about Bron now lol.
@@harwn999 fair point lol
@@popetaytvespecially considering the fact that his bag has gotten bigger the older he’s become.
Phil was a new coach when began coaching Jordan. Riley was a new coach when he coached Magic, and Kerr was a new coach when he coached Curry. Bron isn’t the only player to win with new coaches. Also, Miami had a system when Bron played there.
What system and what these systems do without LBJ WAS GONE⁉️
@@2123lottoErik Spoelstra still went to two NBA Finals without a superstar as his best player
@@2123lottowell Miami went to the finals twice post lebron
He’s gotten more coaches their first rings than the others though 🤔
@@Bestthingsince93 so we rewarding coaches for going to the finals and losing but insult lebron for going to 10 finals and losing 6. Please make it make sense
This is high level sports conversation!
Reason Bron don’t have more rings is bc he played against some hella stacked teams. Only one he shouldn’t have lost was the Mavs that was on him
Naw mavs swept the 2x champs everyone underestimated 2011 mavs
This was probably one of the best MJ, Kobe, Lebron debate I’ve ever seen. ESPN and other media/podcast will definitely be using the analogies yall used. Shoutout to Gil’s Arena 🙌🏽🙌🏽
💯
It’s not lol Rashad counter should’ve been tht if Jordan and Kobe was to move around and stack the decks how many chips would Jordan or Kobe have
Moving around or even stacking the deck does nothing.... History has shown that too... Only guarantee wins is a great system @@Heemkeem_9
@@Heemkeem_9 they didn’t need to cuz of the team an organization/coach they had. Unless you’re saying MJ could’ve had better players than Rodman, Pippen, Kerr, etc…and Kobe could’ve had better than Shaq, Pau?
@@moah2086 lmaoo dude just named …. STEVE KERR 😂😂🤣🤣😳😳 and YES Jordan could’ve had better players than Scottie and Rodman … do u know what Dwayne was the first two years of the 3 peat ? Easily a top 4-6 player in the league and then u pair that with bosh who was a top 8-12 player in the league , and pau !?! 🤣🤣🤣😂 really really good player but he’s no top 5 player in the world lol go look at tht two peat lakers roster again … went to the finals 3 years in the west when it was as tuff as it’s ever been … imagine what they would’ve did if Kobe got to play with an Amare and a Chris Paul for 4 years . Shaq is shaq and I give u tht but to me Kobe’s career defining years are from 04-2011
Man y’all gotta put Tim Duncan up there…5 chips in 6 tries
Spurs and Duncan never repeated Bro..meaning they never dominated ..lakers three peated and repeated in Spurs prime
Here you go with this chip shit!!did you not listen to wtf they were saying or you just jump str8 in the comments
@@newelldavis1858duncan won 5 during kobe’s prime and 4 during shaqs. they dominated u jus tryna move the goalpost
@@newelldavis1858 you casuals are funny. Duncan never had a top 10 player ever on his team. Tony was never a top 10 player / Manu was never a top 10 player / kawhi was never a top 10 player in SA. Kobe had Shaq not only was Shaq a top 3 player in the league at the time but he’s also A TOP 10 player OF ALL TIME LOL. Give Duncan a top 10 player and see how many championships he wins lol
Yeah Duncan gets overlooked and it’s crazy I’m 29 and I remember how dominant the Spurs were like every year form early 2000’s to early 2010’s that’s insane.
I like when players that played break down basketball it brings us in to the truth of how they think about the x and O's of the game
A lot of facts spoken.... you are constantly going to hear things like this for the next 20 years.
When all else fails, Just talk about LeBron. Dude is always brought up for no reason whatsoever.
🧢
The most hated athlete of all time
@@thomaswatson201130well deserved 💯🤨🤙🏿
You keep clicking on the videos but want to complain. Bro have a secret obsession with LeBron lmao
Um gil talks about bron 24/7 on anybody's show. Just like unk..
McCants be talking in circles bruh, basically tryna find a reason to hate on Bron lol
Made himself dizzy with his talking points!! lol
Haha yeap. Never fails. He fucked up when he said Bron would have been as good as Gil thinks he is if he had a system. He thought that proved his point as to why Bron ain't the GOAT. But Gil exposed it with the record label analogy. Lmao. Anytime he makes a point & then realizes it actually works against him, he'll just change his point 😂
@@boosiesfade Big facts! he on the show to create controversy anyways so i guess he play his role lol
Man that Nicca a fan , he had a whole lebron laker jersey on in one of the recent shows. He a goofy
Yeah he was struggling to justify his hate
What’s crazy to me is PEOPLE MAKE IT SEEM LIKE LEBRON WON THEM RINGS BY HIMSELF!!!! BUT NEVER MENTIONED THE FACT HE HAD SUPER TEAMS WITH EVERY CHAMPION SHIP! That’s the system lebron was in “ the SUPER TEAM SYSTEM!”
At the time the Bulls were a super team as well...
Nobody seems like that, just like mj had help and Kobe, and magic, and bird, and Tim Duncan. People who know basketball know!!!
@@lewismoultrie5548 Dwayne wade the star for heat! , Chris Bosh start for Toronto! Kevin love star for the wolves, kyrie Irving star for Cleveland! Anthony Davis star for pelicans! All these guys are the number one option plus leading scorer on their teams…..Dennis Rodman didn’t lead no damn team in his life, and Pippen only lead the bulls when Mike left…..AGAIN WHAT SUPER TEAM MJ JOINED? Did he join Bird, Magic, Barkley or even Reggie miller? Lol see the difference?
@@lewismoultrie5548 Bulls were never a superteam
Nobody won rings by themselves in a team sport.
Idk, this is probably the best argument I’ve seen them have in a while and they make this argument every other episode lol
Everything Sally said in that podcast clip was on point
He literally makes sense.
🎉
Maybe it’s because he coached three of the top 10 players of all time. I think my grandmother could’ve won a championship with those rosters.
Top 8
guy's arguing without communication skills 😢
Jordan’s skill set had coaches calling him the best basketball player ever before he stepped on an NBA floor.
Bobby knight
Lies he was not the man coming into the NBA. LeBron was.
@@malikdavis1451 Hahahahaha 🤣😂
@@johnp550not sure why you are laughing he is actually right. He never even went first in the draft. That was The Dream. Jordan went 3rd.
He got to develop without any pressure.
@@malikdavis1451that's 🧢... Yes he was.
Brandon Jennings at 6:08 LOL
The guy in the red pants is spot on and well spoken without being bias. Gilbert keeps on making contradictions and making no sense.
And Jordan always did well against Detroit, but having a stronger supporting cast is what helped push Chicago over. John Sally is acting like Detroit owned Jordan. No, Detroit owned Chicago because they didn't have the team yet!
I don’t think he gave that vibe because people forget he played with Jordan and won a chip at the end of he’s career I believe thats why he knows so much about the triangle
That label analogy was on point Gil
No it wasn’t
@@matthewgabbana5021 explain
@@brandonwatson5290 Lebron doesn’t like being coached, he wants to be the coach, even if he had the same coaching staffs as MJ and Kobe . Lebron wants to run everything and call the shots
@@matthewgabbana5021you just described an “independent artist” 😅
@@GirlDad_93 Ok well don’t get upset if he doesn’t have a “good coaching “ system if he doesn’t try too. Even if he had Phil Jackson, bron still wouldn’t be coached
So you telling me lebron didn’t play in a system in Miami? D wade , Bosh , an bron
Defensive one yes. Offensive, not really. Look how golden state moved around, Denver, spurs. Those are offense systems because they dont wear out your best player.
Its called a Super Team system
Thats dwade system my guy not lebron
@@Freshprince186hmmm ray allen dwade and bosh offered him plenty of offensive support. Had lebron not choked in 2011 dwade would have won the fmvp.
@@2cents250you are wrong, but for the right reasons, he had space with bosh and ray the year after, 2012 where bosh was moved as 5, before in 2011 the was no space
Shout out to John Salley and Rashad McCants. Only people who actually having a debate. The way this conversation went before Gil tried to reset the room actually was the most honest anyone has been about the GOAT conversation. Just because a guy brute force his way to success doesn't mean that he had a "harder" or takes away from the others success. Why do good artists borrow and great artists steal, because you understand your faults and short comings and work on it to get better. The fact is, Kobe and Jordan has more success because they learned from history as well as from within, that's why you never heard blame or criticism on anyone else. You are the leader, no one cares about your troops because they are your troops.
THANK YOU ! Gil speaking FACTS
The main issue is LeBron had the option to have a system NUMEROUS times because Bron had heavy influence on coaching choices. And the one time he was in a system (Miami) he decided to leave. You can make the argument he chose this career.
Running in back with a injured miami heat squad that has a system or be the first player in your city’s history to bring a championship home which doesnt have a system but alot more potential than it did in the first stint? Im picking the second one too
I really don’t understand why nobody talks about that.. he literally picks the rookie coaches that coach his teams.. it’s always been his decision. He just doesn’t want a system.. he wants the top players, not the system
He had to go back and win with cleavland to get that monkey or demon of his back...
@@jaun74talking rubbish about things u don't know.
Bingo
We gon ignore how salley said he’s 6’11 and 2 quarters 🤣 10:22
lol like nigga you 6’11 1/2 🤣🤣 talking about 2 quarters
I agree with the magic comparison
I love these sport conversations.
Mccant be having them on ropes but he be falling out the rails in the middle of the conversations 😂🤦🏾♂️
Facts McCants challenge the narrative and incorrect bs because he know some is hating
No he's just wrong. The phones from 20 years ago aren't as good as the phones now. It's the evolution of humans. Jordan was huge and that's cuz we didn't have social media and all that shit. Lebron has been so great during all this social media era and everything. It's so obvious lebron would have been better if you take him at age 26 and put him against Jordan.
BS .... You take LECHOKE at 26 and put him up against MJ he'll QUIT just like Musgy Bouges did. Wht y'all dnt wnt to Accept ADMIT or Deal With is the Simple fact tht the game is easier today, bcse if you take the LECHOKE who got SWEPT by DALLAS with the same Team and put them against the 91 PISTONS who MJ beat they wud be SWEPT AGAIN but if you take tht same 91 MJ and put them against the MAVS, yow the tbl will be Turned EASILY and hey amma play with my same Bulls Squad.
Nah he just be wrong yall trippin
you hate lebron too
Rashad started off so strong but his bias kicked in. Mike & Kobe never won anything outside the triangle. (I'm not knocking them for that either.)
They also didn't jump around team to team either
@@billyenglish7231you sound like a meat rider
@@billyenglish7231they didn’t have to, they had a front office who had brains and actually made good moves. Every team bron played on the front office was brain dead
@@billyenglish7231 if bron had shaq, that bulls squad, hof coaches, and didn't have to go up against better competition he wouldn't have left. situations are different.
@@givenchyoverallMiami front office brain dead ? Wow lmao
Mccants been serving gil up all szn.
John Salley “I’m just being serious “🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Phil Jackson was coaching in Mexico when the Bulls hired him to come and coach an already MVP/DPOY Michael Jordan.
It was the fact that MJ listened and made everyone else fall in line that made it work. If he treated Phil the way LBJ treats ALL his coaches going back to HS, none of us would know who Phil was.
You’re wrong. Phil was in in Chicago when
Mike won DPOY/MVP in 88.
Phil was hired in 87 as an assistant under Doug Collins.
Bro I grew up in Chicago watching Payton and Jordan, and you're wrong
He's not completely wrong, just wrong about when Phil started with the bulls, but that's semantics to what he was saying. The rest of his point is valid, LeBron has never trusted or supported management & at times has actually actively worked against them or took responsibilities off them for himself. Le GM.
@@ajhaynes5721
Don’t muddy up the convo with semantics, Phil was a behind the bench asst that was hired because he was willing to run Tex Winters the triangle offense that Krause wanted to run and Doug Collins didn’t.
Phil was no coaching prodigy. Krause just really liked him.
Jordan and Kobe had to sacrifice numbers in order to win championships.
Mike didnt like the system because he didn’t want to lose games with role players handling the ball too much and taking shots. He was hard on his teammates to step their game up instead of running to replace them. They eventually did and he won 6 chips because of it.
Kobe bucked the system a lot the first 3 chips, but he stuck with it enough to win 5 chips.
@@Flamangatang
I’m muddying the waters but YOU said some incorrect shit?
Got it…. Facts actually matter but I digress.
Carry on
Not a Bron fan but it's crazy to say he doesn't have a bag
He doesn’t
@@OmniscientVirtuositylol the bagless one
He doesn't have many moves
What is his go to move?
When you’re unstoppable down hill train you don’t need much
very, very intelligent conversation between Men!!! great job fellas!!!!!!
I appreciate Rashad McCants' insights and John Salley's strong understanding of the intricacies of the triangle offense. I agree with Rashard. Rashard is becoming a superstar in this space. I can see the level and potential. I hope we get to work together.
1. **Jordan and Kobe's Skill Sets**: Both Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant thrived in the triangle offense due to their ability to play effectively both with and without the ball. Their diverse skill sets allowed them to adapt and excel within this system, making them more versatile and skilled in comparison to other players who might rely more heavily on having the ball in their hands.
2. **LeBron James' Play Style**: LeBron James' game is often centered around his ability to control the ball and facilitate the offense. His style might not align as well with the triangle offense, which requires players to function seamlessly without the ball.
3. **Triangle Offense's Strength**: The triangle offense is praised for its ability to create consistent offensive advantages through coordinated movement and strategic counters. Its complexity and demand for teamwork can make it less appealing to superstars who prefer more ball-dominant roles, contributing to its mixed reputation.
4. **System vs. Individual Performance**: The discussion on how systems like the triangle offense affect individual statistics versus team success is compelling. While playing within such a system might limit individual scoring potential, it often leads to greater team success and championships, as seen with Jordan and Kobe.
McCants said ‘88 MJ vs ‘23 Bron 😂😂😂😂 how tf is that fair?!
I'm surprised they let that slide
right you wanna do that LETS GET 2018 BRON
@@kiggss Jordan was still a better shooter, more skilled, better defender, more creative, better scorer, better dunker, just better. 88-91 Jordan is better than anybody who ever played. Plus he had elite scoring seasons before.
@apeacefulmindx your stupid. Go play 2k. Stopping speaking on basketball. 2023 lebron is like talking about wizards Jordan.
84 to 88 Jordan vs Lebron Entire Career
Wait, Lebron was like Magic. Who was Magic’s coach when he won his championships? Pat Riley. When Lebron was in Miami whose system was he in? Pat Riley. If Lebron wanted to be a part of a winning system, he had one. He left it.
When LeBron joined the Lakers, Magic Johnson was the president of the team. They missed the playoffs, and Magic left his position. If LeBron for once would've taken responsibility of his team, he'd kept playing with Magic, then LeBron would have 10 rings.
@@penkima4923missed the playoffs cause he was hurt?? He was in 4th before he went down lol
He left and won twice since Miami. How many times has Miami won since LeBron left.
Miami made it to the finals and lost to ...... Lebron
@@rjeanes3885 he wasn't hurt don't you remember he activated playoff mode
Pat riley didn't coach the heat when bron was there fuck are you talking about. This is just like phil jackson with the knicks as the president... he didn't coach the players bruh... Jst because phil was a generational coach doesn't mean that system would translate to a newbie coach when he was a president.
Gil funny af man had me dead when he was talkin bout his whole staff gon be the bad boys 🤣💀
The Triangle is Hard to get Right gotta have the right fit of players to fully get the Triangle offense
The triangle didn’t enhance Kobe and Jordan. It enhanced the players around them.
Yes you are right, Jordan was still Jordan, although he got smarter over time the triangle was designed to take the weight off Jordan but with a triangle you gotta have the pieces, Scottie had to evolve, Kobe and Shaq, Kobe was always Kobe he was always gonna work hard so you right it didn’t enhance them cause they were going to work on their game anyway.
If the players around you play better it makes it easier for you to hoop with enhances you … example KD in golden state he was just as good before that but when you put him around lethal shooters now you either gotta leave Steph or klay or let kd go 1v1 and teams tried everything and you couldn’t stop it
@@aaotrey106 yeah that’s cause it was a system, in anything that you in life you have to have a system so you can stay on track it’s the same with the team, if you have a system it makes winning easy but that’s if you have player capable. A lot teams Bron right now isn’t in a system, their system is, shoot the 3 and give it to AD and Bron just fill in I’d say they need a coach that will come and just turn it around
This the most factual comment of the topic. The triangle prevented teams from loading up on mike, shaq and kobe. Period. It gave them space to go one v one
Preach
McCants whole demeanor changed at the end 😂😂😂 Feelings was hurt
couldve sworn he was talkin about ‘Russ’ when he brought up the independent artist analogy
Good barbershop convo. If jordan and kobe had 2 top 10 players on their team and no "system" for the majority of their careers what would they have?
Aye that record label comparison by Gil was a great one never heard it out like that
I'm a pretty firm believer that a set system wouldn't enhance what LeBron does it would lessen it. Bron is the system wherever he goes for better or worse.
No such thing as a player being a system, people heard Harden say that and ran with it
For worse.
Just making excuses for Lebron. I wonder how much money Klutch sports is paying Salley… John said it himself, he is making these statements to stay relevant…
@@ZyouknowwhoitisalreadyKD said it about Kawhi first
LeBron doesn't have amazing fundamentals off ball lol. He loves the way he grew up playing in HS/AAU and is afraid of CHANGE as it makes him uncomfortable.
That's why Spoelstra went to Chip Kelly to learn his Spread Offense & fundamentally change how bigs play for him to succeed.
Not only that, the league literally dumbed down the rules to make it easier for perimeter players to succeed!
Good podcast
You casuals please do NOT give Phil credit for the Triangle. Tex Winter was the mind behind the triangle and was on Phil’s staff pn every team
So Phil Jackson and the creator were BOTH on the bulls roster. Got it.
@@koolaid14100lol fr
Not everyone's fault the story ain't told .... calm down hero
Phil won 11 rings implementing the Triangle. He certainly mastered it.
But you give Jordan credit as if Jordan knew ANYTHING about a triangle before Phil (tex)
This was a hell of a show. Y'all broke this down. Very intellectual
The all are great. Love all their games. Respect all eras.
The problems with this arguments concerning players is that it is often elemental and not the sum of the elements.
Anytime I see John Salley talkin Basketball, I watch.
What did u learn?
Any time I see John Salley talking basketball, he says something he obviously came up with himself and is not true.
-something no real one has ever said😂😂😂😂
Salley ..Pip ..Barkley ..Zeke etc …Jealous in their own way of MJ .and for good reason
You shouldn't be proud to say that. He will say anything to stay relevant.
Ever notice Detroit Pistons players inevitably in the end go against Jordan.
Because they beat Jordan and he’s not invincible in their view. Bird and McHale also speak to LeBron as being greater.
Facts Detroit Had the blueprint they beat La,Bos,and Bulls
Dirty play isn't basketball!@@factsovertheyfeelings5303
@@mobetta2092Bird never ever said LeBron was better!
@@jackers245Bird kind of said it recently “he’s one of the greatest if not the greatest” i don’t remember the interview he said it on but was not too long ago
I forgot what I had to say u guys are to funny. 😭
Lebron has always been *the* system...Once he got to miami teams started to build their rosters with players who complimented his play style i.e. shooters, 3&D guys, a bigman who rolled to the basket or who could play pick n' pop. When Lebron has gone to a team, the entire structure of the team was automatically structured around his strengths. His play style isn't really conducive to a system like the triangle because he's pretty much a point forward who needs the ball in his hands to be most effective.
The Warriors, Bulls and Lakers were a solid system because of the chemistry they had with players that played together for a long period of time along with great coaching.
Their best players were also coachable and took blame and accountability
@@user-lt1fx2he5s let me guess. That’s a shot at LeBron?
@@carllee7122It’s not a shot, it’s just the truth.
There was no pressure to win like LeBron faced. LeBron was never given the luxury of time to build consistency because he was expected to win every year.
@@user-lt1fx2he5skobe coachable
Crazy how the Jordan’s and Kobe’s praise Bron but the lesser talented players hate on him
They don’t praise that dude….Stop it!
Giving props and praise is two different things.
@@delscott958Kobe definitely praised Bron get out your feelings
@@Wisestomatoe Told to get out my feelings by a dude that calls another man by a pet name. That’s what his wife calls him.
How about that? 😂
@@delscott958 nigga wtf are you talking about
Fake news 🤥
Before Jordan had the triangle system, he was scoring 37 ppg, averaged close to a triple double when he played PG. Once he went into the triangle system, he had the ball less and stats suffered. The system got more championships but less stats, with role players. LeBron’s championships needed multiple All-NBA players playing alongside LeBron during their primes. Not only that, but most of LeBron’s competition also didn’t have systems. The teams that had systems gave LeBron problems, like the Spurs, Warriors, and Nuggets.
exactly that's why I can't believe that as smart as these men are here they completely ignore those facts just to say Lebron would be the goat if he played in a system. Lebron's entire goat case is build on hypotheticals and it almost seems like an agenda more than a genuine take
I didn’t notice anyone say that Jordan needed to go play on super teams! Add Jordan or Kobe to in place of LeBron on that Miami team do they lose a Finals series?
I HATE how people leave out the absolute fact that LeBron couldn’t even beat the Spurs with the refs on his side.
No one ever talks about how players win because they have the refs. After MJ got the refs he never lost a finals. Kobe with the refs and Shaq beat the kings. Look at what Luka is doing right now with the refs. When you have the refs you’re SUPPOSED to win! The fact LeBron couldn’t was crazy to me. Steph won 2 rings with the refs against him. Bron is one of the few superstars I’ve seen lose with the refs on his side.
Imagine how many NBA World Championships Kobe Bryant would have won if Shaquille O'Neal didn't leave the Los Angeles Lakers. Imagine how many NBA World Championships wl Michael Jordan would have won without Scottie Pippen? We can on forever with the iffa coulda woulda scenarios all day long. What the panel does not tell you is Lebron James ring chasing from Cleveland Cavaliers to Miami Heat 🔥 then back to the Cleveland Cavaliers then the Los Angeles Lakers to win Championships. In reality Lebron James cheated the game of basketball 🏀.. In NBA history superstars don't jump from team to a contending NBA World Championships team after they lose in Championships. The goal is to eliminate the competition not to play with all the competition.
Warriors had a system and spurs got a culture system
Also it’s the fact they take 3s when they losing in critical moments when they just need a quick 2. that kills me watching them.
The thing is, it seems like they're using two different styles of arguments to defend lebron, and dont do the same for the other two. They're giving the " but you have to add context" argument for the areas where lebron falls short, and the switching to the absolute, raw numbers argument when it benefits lebron. Like you cant say "his 4 rings must be looked at in the context of his teammates and lack of system" and then just say "well he has the most points so end of discussion". Do the same for the other two then. You could easily say "kobe or jordan dont have the most points but context" and then add "and they have more rings, end of discussion". I think thats where Rashad and Gil missed each other. Gil jumps from saying "lebron should get extra points for these circumstances" to "lebron is numerically the best in this category, period"-you cant win a discussion when dude is just gonna change the metric/argument to favor who he has decided should win. If we're looking at it both of these ways, lets do it for all three and stack it up.
bron being the best player to play in the nba isn't up to debate, jordan and kobe system players with 5 and 6. bron the system with 8 straight trips to the finals and 4 chips. nuff said
@@peterkoroma7876 when did bron played in the system and got his 8? bruh you trippin? Bron is the system, we cannot possibly know what happens if he plays with a coach that has a system, unless he does next year. These are hypothetical arguments, that's all there is to it.
@@peterkoroma7876 if you think bron never had a system you don’t watch basketball. Bron is the system. Notice how every team he played on ran the exact same plays. Had the exact same play style. That’s not a coincidence.
@@fructose742 read what I said again
@@TheKayFThree read what I said again buddy
Gil been Lebrons #1 Superfan since he tapped his chest that game 😂😂😂
No it’s been since Klutch has writing his checks
gil is real
On some joker loves batman shit
Everybody is super fan of MJ.. what’s the difference
In addition, Tim Cone, the winningest coach in the PBA uses the same system as well..
The system does not dictate the skill set. Mike did everything without a system except win.
My new favorite is Gil restates macants argument, and then Brandon realizes how right Gil is, then kinda gets all excited but it’s like a chill excited.
Gil is totally wrong. If we wanna compare MJ and Lebron without a system, we should only compare the first few years of MJ and Lebron to balance out the longevity of Lebron.
If LeBron played for Pop or in any elite system he would have 8 rings by now. I have said this for a decade.
Cap. Bron played with stacked superteams and if you named the 5 best coaches in the NBA rn Spo would be 1 and Lue would be 4 or 5
So why wouldn’t he go play for Popivich then since he was a free agent?hell hes a free agent now and probably not going to have a good coach to come in so go play4Pop now
@@IknowMoreThanYou He didn't have that his first 7 years though. To be fair LeBron had some bad luck too, he could be sitting on 6 or 7 rings now if A. His entire team wasn't injured in 2015, and B. KD didn't bandwagon the Warriors success (In an era that had refs discouraging defense) to create an unfair and non-competitive advantage, which was also enabled to happen by that offseason having a cap increase and Steph having a cheap contract at the time. 2017 and 2018 would have been a good competitive rivalry if KD didn't kill it
He would have gotten the coach fired lol
@@IknowMoreThanYou Those are not system coaches.
He had a system pat system in Miami.
The flopping is all i remember when hes gone 😂
Show me where this 6’9 269 pound kid had NO skill set was so gifted as a scorer, defender and not just a passer???? WTH is McCants talking about?
Skills meaning shooting ability, handles, can get to any spot he wants n score. Great free throw shooter, 3pt, mid range, post up etc. bron relies on athleticism & ball dominance. No real skillset but IQ. His rebounds n assists aren’t skillsets. He literally tells his teammates to move when getting a board n he holds the ball n pass last minute to get an assist. This why he shys away from big moments cuz he lacks creating his own with no real skillset. Reason why he needed wade, kyrie, ad to fill in the void.
@thegoatmane2715 in order to have both athleticism AND skills it takes the proper IQ to formulate and use as an asset which he’s done his entire career. And last time I checked bball is a team sport which means ALL legendary superstars needed help in order to win. Russell, Bird, Zeke, Steph, MJ, Kobe and MJ did NOT win titles alone it took a total team effort and special players, Pippen was just as much an asset to Mike as Wade was to James
@@thegoatmane2715I respect that…. But, when you have time, watch his highlights from 2007-2018, then, tell me he don’t have a bag…… not true…. He always had handles, just not kyrie, he worked on his jumper, and, post game…… like I said, I respect your opinion, but, I disagree
@@thegoatmane2715and, he’s proven he’s there for the big moments….. it’s video proof…. We just want him to shoot 50 times a game
@@thegoatmane2715 At this point, there isn't a player in history who has come through in more big moments than Lebron.
You can’t tell me none of these coaches wanted to implement some form of an offense that they can fall back on. It all changes when Bron comes to the team
Facts. Even Michael, as competitive and strong-willed as he is, acquiesced to Phil Jackson in order to win.
I agree 100%. Ain't no way none of these coaches want to win!! Bron is ball-dominant so players just spot up. What more you want them to do?
Right David Blatt tried
Those aren’t comparable to the Triangle
And he still got championships
It's funny how they never mention wade and bosh who were superstars on his teams
Rashad literally KILLS ME LIKE BRO!
Although I agree, you guys glossed over the fact of Lebron being in the eastern conference for most of his career. Put Kobe In the east during his prime with Kyrie/Love or D Wade/Bosh and he would've made just as many final appearances. He had much tougher comp in the west. This isn't a fair hypothetical for Lebron MJ, or Kobe. Let all 3 of them just be great
Kobe shot more than lebron and shot below average for his career, being in the eastern conference doesnt change his poor shooting percentage.
Kobe was never efficient Never lol even when he won finals mvp against the Celtics 2010 they gave it to him because it’s nobody else they could give it too without backlash Kobe won finals MVPs as the worst superstar to ever win with terrible shooting percentage
Kobe isn’t in goat debate. His #s too low compared to mj and lebron. Kobe shot 43 % for his career . Jordan shot 50 %
The same can be said of Prime LBJ in the West with better put together teams. He probably still went to 10 straight and most likely won more.
Kobe also went to a Top 2 franchise too and I think that's glossed over. Easier to recruit and get talent. Is it ironic when he left he went to a destination franchise in Miami? Easier to recruit to Miami LA over Cleveland
Salley dismissing Olajuwon's championship takes away his credibility. Also, no mention of Kareem in a GOAT discussion, further undercuts the discussion.
@sishaq12 I understand most people didn't see Kareem in his prime. But he should always be in the GOAT conversation.
@@jasonjohnson6987
ALWAYS
Salley isn't trying to diminish Hakeem championships because he believes the Bulls would've won those seasons if the GOAT didn't retire. MANY people believe that. Lol
Just want to remind Gil that Phil become great when he worked along side MJ and Tex, It was never that he was already that brilliant coach as he is today when he coached the bulls. MJ is the greatest becausw he knows how to win even without the super team mates LJ had. MJ and Pippen compliment each other because MJ is a great leader and always have the will to win unlike lebron who always need superstars along side him to be abled to win. Lebron is great but NOT the greatest because Micheal Jeffrey Jordan is the GREATEST OF ALL TIME.
It’s astronomical how people still compare a Bron, who left teams, won on multiple teams to Kobe, Mike, Steph Duncan all one team. Period, no more debate. Don’t know how many rings Kobe would have had he left and joined with 2 more superstars. People are delusional
Dude said 88 mike and 2023 lebron. Compared a 25 year old to a 38 year old. You know u lost the debate. 😂
98 Mike is better than any version of lebron
@@IknowMoreThanYouLebron at 22 is smoking 98 Jordan lmao
Man please. Lying to yourself
@@fhfvonamir he couldn’t even out score Parker in the finals at 22 hush it kid
@@kylonp7311Jordan was a rookie at 22, not inda playoffs, what's your point ?
So we gonna forget about Lebron being with Pat Riley / Spoelstra
Purely for content i doubt any of these guys actually believe Leflop is better
And he left because he couldn’t control the team and get rid of spoelstra
False
Pat Riley was never his coach just overseer. Spoelstra is not Phil Jackson or Kerr and they never ran no type of triangle type off offense
Pat wouldn't coach and Eric was a rookie. Mj wouldn't play when Phil left the bulls,and couldn't win with the wizards,he couldn't even make the playoffs, and that wizards team had some great players.
Anthony Jamison
Jerry Stackhouse
Juan Dixon
Christian Latner
Jahade White
Richard Hamilton
Turon Lue
Ect.
I think reshad forgot the original point. He and salley were the original ones to say if lebron had a system he wins more makes the point Gil makes better that lebron is better despite that
Its too early in the morning to be listening to Rashad McCants
Rashad tries to make points to discredit Bron, starts moving his hands and adding more points… eventually he just makes the case for the Bron being the GOAT. He should just start arguing that Bron is his GOAT… it’ll eventually lead to points strengthening Mike and Kobe’s cases.
Rashad might’ve made the best case for LeBron as the GOAT in this segment 😂
@@jeffjohnsonization The initial point was made by John Salley, which means it's not true. LeBron played in a triangle offense at least during his second stint with the Cavs.
Facts😂😂
I like how you guys try to convince yourselves that Lebron is the GOAT with any BS opinion lol.
@@dodgertalk5764mj is definitely number 1. Russell, Kareem, lebron make up the top four in my opinion