Watch before you buy a PMA, permanent magnet alternator for wind power, wind turbine, wind mill
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- Watch before you buy a PMA, permanent magnet alternator for wind power, wind turbine, wind mill
Not all wind turbines are created equal, and on this video this is exactly what we talk about. And believe me there is a lot of contention with this very topic. And by no means is this video a comprehensive view on the subject. This video is however an overview of some of the things that many who are looking to purchase and or build using the PMA alternator setup should know. - Jak na to + styl
Very happy too see a man who knows his stuff, and gives real and honest advice concerning the modification for the creation of a pma, we have to create new designs for our future. Very important video.
Thank you
Fantastic explanation
It's an easy problem to solve. I used to solve this problem years ago when I used to work on them on boats. All you do is have a small circuit that applies a small amount of current induces the stator winding creates a motor out of that temporarily speeds the unit up momentarily gets it past that inertia. it always worked everybody was happy.
Your a savior when power crisis.
Would you be able to use a DC-DC step up boost controller?
Totally new to this. What parts are necessarry to building a magnetic motor and alternator to generate power ?
very informative 😃👍to much miss information out there gets confusing
There isn't enough Iron in the stator core to achieve the flux linkage in a Car Alternator for a wind turbine application.
Hi, I like your approach to this subject. Yes, Piggott was the pioneer, I still have one of his original papers, printed on green paper, bought mail order before the Internet was a thing. I follow the rationale behind the car alternators upgrades for wind generation, but I've never understood why the field coil rotor of the car alternators were deleted, it seems a great way to regulate the generation, sure the original controller won't do the job, but regulating the field current to allow the prop to spin up easily in a low wind and then maintain some generation in all conditions seems like an ideal way forward. Maybe it's because my background is in electronics that this way seems to be the most appealing? Maybe someone somewhere has already come up with a microcontroller design to manage this application?
Hi enlightened me to make generator? Email me please the green print behind alternative to generator?
@Mark Dale - The Field Coil can draw, up to ~2 amps from the battery bank. Therefore, it appears to be more efficient to install Permanent Magnets.
@@MrSummitville Not if the PM generator won't turn in light winds. The full field coil current would only be required at maximum output so if the gen is putting out 60 Amps, 2 amps is not that bad. The field current could be controlled to maintain optimum generation in all wind conditions while the efficiency remains greater better than 90% say, and more like 98% in the best case scenario (talking electrical efficiency here, not overall). I want to know if anybody has tried this?
@@MarkDaleADV But an AF PM Wind Turbine DOES turn in light winds! It spins with ZERO Cogging. If you don't have any amps flowing through the Field Coil of your Alternator then it generates 0 Watts! So, if you have low Field Coil amps AND Low wind speed = You get nothing. You need about 2,000 RPM to get 60 amps. I want to see your Wind Turbine make that happen. Also, when the car engine starts the Field Coil is energized and when the car engine is turned off the field coil is de-energized. HOW are you going to know WHEN to turn the Field Coil ON and OFF? Whenever your 12 volt alternator is making less than 24 - 36 WATTS, you will be NET losing energy.
@@MrSummitville You have offended me with your ignorant and presumptuous comments. You clearly think you are the only one who knows anything, and are therefore a master of the galactically obvious. It pains me to explain it to you, how do you think I will know? The microcontroller I program will monitor and regulate the field current to keep the alternator turning at the optimum revs, whatever I decide by experimentation that might be. A small initial field current is all that would be required to produce an output which could then be used to monitor the running state of the machine.The interesting thing about this method is that it creates a smart machine and the possibilities for control are endless, unlike the dumb PM version which just turns, and chucks out power in an uncontrolled way, which then has to be dumped or mechanically limited. I would like to explore this alternative approach because it is elegant. You may not understand that concept, but it makes the effort worthwhile even if the outcome is in all other ways less. Anyway the chances of a stimulating exchange on this thread are clearly very limited.
DC treadmill motor with chain drive five to one from blade hub works well for me ,charging batteries but noisy. Still saving pennies for the aluminium notched pulleys and belt. V belts slip in rain , overtightened causes difficult stating in low wind ..yes pm DC motors do create volts easily by hand spinning but getting many amps soon steadies them up ..just my experience to date
So i am offgrid living on a small island in the Baltic sea (Denmark) and in the 1930 /40/50 on the farms here they used car dynamoes homemade towers and wood blades geared usually with parts from bicycles but they only ran a battery or 2 and used a radio and a lightbulb or 2
That's why I got 4 of them ,
One is for a VAWT ,
It will have a 26 inch bicycle rim running a Serpentine belt and of course Serpentine pulley which gives about
9 to 1 ratio , and it only has 2 foot pounds of Cogging , yes I can spin all 4 of my PMAs with my hand ,
Each one makes 1200 to 1800 watts depending on how fast they spin ,
I tested each one up to 3600rpm for 30 minutes straight making power under load , they each performed great ,
So one is going on a VAWT ,
2nd on a 4 foot or bigger Water Wheel
3rd on a bicycle
And
4th one on a 40cc gas chainsaw engine
Then I have Solar Panels and a Generac Generator .
So I have have
Sun , Wind , Water , Human Power , Gas engine all sending in power ,
All together I have about
12KW but I'm wanting about 15 to 17KW just to be safe
Don't forget to send me update pics. I think what you got going on is great. Feels good to be self sufficient!
@@veggitarianredneck , I'm still buying more inverters and lithium ion batteries ,
I'm buying one to Two pieces at a time as I can afford them ,
It's coming together slowly but everything is paid in full and I don't even have $1000 investment in everything ,
But I'm doing everything myself , I plan to spend another 1 grand on inverters and 2 grand on Batteries ,
So about a 4 to 5 grand total investment after Welding , fabricating and miscellaneous ,
But with other systems in the $25,000 to $35,000 dollar range ,
My system will pay for itself in very little time
@@jimthomas777 Make a video of your wind turbine spinning the alternator at 3,600 RPM. WHY does nobody else do this?
Ask yourself which is more important; speed or torque?
By adding blades to an airfoil design, you increase the surface area in contact with the wind and thereby increase the torque to overcome start-up cogging.
I've found alternators that are built from the direct drive "pancake" motor of washing machines can produce high output at lower rpm.
Using a high-torque, low speed windmill with one of these PMAs, you can run gearing as close as 1:2 and achieve the desired results.
More blades equal more drag. It's not intuitive, I realize. There is plenty of science out there, videos etc. It's not hard to find.
@@veggitarianredneck Which is a problem if your more concerned about making the blades spin fast and your not concerned about torque; turbulence and cavitation take their toll on speed which is why wing types normally have as few blades as possible. They depend on Bernoulli's principal to generate speed and lift.
The old multi-blade windmills work more like a Savonius bucket-style; using the thrust of the wind on an interfering surface.
They are much slower but have an immense amount of torque.
I was lucky enough to find a permanent magnet modified alternator in a scrap pile a few months ago. SCORE! I was fascinated when I opened it up to find that the rotor had 7 magnets! I had never heard of a PM rotor with an odd number of magnets before, and it took some head scratching before I realized that the alternate magnetic fields were coming from the magnets on the opposite side of the rotor! This one is actually pretty easy to turn by hand, so I wonder if there is something to this strange magnet configuration to make that possible. Unfortunately the area where I live just does not get any wind but right now I’m actually more interested in using this alternator as a motor.
I did a quick test with it connect to a standard e-bike controller at 60 volts and was surprised by how well it performed. It runs incredibly smooth and quiet, and the torque it produces is INSANE! Seems to be pretty low RPM for 60v so I suppose that is the trade off. The only potential issue I see so far is that the shaft remains magnetic, which I assume is due to a lack of cancellation in the magnetic feild, possibly partly due to the rotor being mostly hollow between the magnets as they are secured between two plates with space between.
Has anyone encountered a PM alternator or motor of any kind with an odd number of magnets on the rotor? I have found almost no documentation online referencing such a configuration.
Do you live close to Burlington Iowa or somewhere near the Illinois/Iowa border? I was supposed to buy a alternator type wind turbine for $25 From a guy who was remodeling a home in Oquawka IL. He forgot & said he accidentally took it to the scrapyard. What's frustrating is, I could have just took it for free when it was laying in the yard & nobody would have cared. It was mounted to a skinny bent maroon color pole that blew over in a storm. It had several old faded grayish/black plastic or fiberglass blades. I think they were plastic because some blades had bent when it fell over & was laying in the yard but didn't break apart. Does this description match the one you found? I'm kicking myself for not just taking it when it was left abandoned. I think the pole was maroon that it was on. I can't remember exactly, I think cable to it might have been orange. If you found it near IL/Iowa border. I'm sure it's the same one. I can't remember the exact month he threw it out. I believe it was Oct Nov or Dec of 2023. Which matches when you found it.
The three bladed is best for wind farms but for the average person that is not putting it that high studies show more blade like the old days is best .
Anytime you put a magnetic field around copper coils you make electricity ,
And if you add an iron or steel core , this increases the electric current ,
Add a Tesla coil and the voltage increases ,
I have made a 4 inch Arc ,
It was really Cool and Super dangerous ,
About 5000 Volts
Just re watched this. One of the best videos on design considerations for small generators. Anyone thinking of buying one needs to the whole video. Also, am I imagining it or is that music a lot quieter than it was ? 🙂
By the way, I watched your video on wind generator mast design ages ago ( with the cool funky music on time lapse bits ! ) and re engineered my mast along those guidelines. Has withstood several fairly horrible storms. Thank you !
You are very welcome 😀
I would like to build a 6 Kw system wind generators can you please recommend three-phase generators i can use in my build please
Field lines had an excellent 5k build that I copied, and built myself. Not for the faint hearted. It was big and heavy, really large and dangerous magnets. Lots of copper windings. Really fun to build.
I think I saw the exact magnet rotor on ebay that you showed in one of the images
I'll bet you did too
I have a question I am building a gas powered 12 V permanent magnet alternator for a charging 12 V lithium batteries I am using a 12 SI 78a alternator so I can put it 100 foot away from the camper three phase to an external bridge rectifier to a DC to DC charger for my batteries I’ve purchased 10 n 52 magnets 2“ x 1/2 by 1/2 I was going to build the rotor out of aluminum. Is this gonna be a problem or does it have to be metal and how many magnets should I use? I am looking for 13 to 14 V and anywhere from 10 to 30 A
Mine has 14 magnets , Stainless Steel Shaft , and I have had it spin at 3600rpm for 30 minutes with no problem , it's a 12si GM 12 volt alternator and makes 19 volt spinning 3600rpm ,
I showed it NO mercy , but I was testing it , if it passed and it did ,
I figured that anything nature had to throw at it would be small in comparison to this test ,
I got my rotors from Missouri wind and solar in 2016 and all 4 of them run great ,
The worst one made 19 volts at 3600rpm and the best one made 21 volts ,
They of course will not be spinning this fast but again , this was just a test to see if they would survive 3600rpm and for 30 minutes straight none failed ,
And all produced power under load for this 30 minute test .
know which type of wind is the main one and the engine the engine defines everything
❤❤❤❤
like you say you get what you pay for, have you seen james biggar or orlando sanchez , im planning on building an axial i have most the equipment just no time right now. josep castelles made a nice axial, all those guys make good power in low winds at low rpms they done it for years. you need to be in a good clean wind location. i have those car alternator style pmas theyre pretty ordinary.
I built a couple axial flux turbines, and they are wonderfully machines.
I think I have made that Alternator which you can turn with the tip of your fingers. I'm using 16 magnets if I remember correctly 7 kg pull each but still no coging and no stiffness If I knew its a problem which need solving I would have made a video when I was modifying the starter shaft but I will post a video and show you I accidentally without even knowing to manage to make such Alternator
Before I leave I would like to ask you a question what is the difference between 12V and 24V PMA can you please explain what type of system we should choose for either PMA
Thanks
Yes, yes please do send me a video of this and I will showcase your discovery, and promote your channel as well if you want.
As far as the voltage goes it just depends on the system voltage that you choose.
I'll be using a 1/2 HP DC electric motor. When I flip it by hand, it makes 14 volts, when a five foot cord was wrapped around the 3 inch pulley it made 79 volts. It's 90 volts, 5.5 amps, and has brushes. No cogging. Well it's a start. I have to make some kind of hub for the blades. I have a 3 foot aluminum propeller that I may try first. It doesn't take much to turn a DC generator so maybe it will work temporary at least.
Is it a treadmill motor?
The DC motor I have is 5 and 1/2 inches wide, 11 inches long, about 35 pounds. It had a box about a foot square with a variable speed knob. It says NALCO on that box. It is much bigger than a treadmill motor... that's what I tried before. I think the shaft is 9/16 inch. All the lettering is gone from the tag but some numbers are stamped into it. 1/2 HP, 90 volts, 1725 rpm, 5.5 amps, CONT duty, 40 degrees C temp rise, then it says PM and 56. Form factor is 1.26. Cat. No.D275. after that it says TFN. It has ball bearings but no cooling holes anywhere. There is a fan on the back that just blew air over the outside of it. I'll probably take that off. From the looks of it, it was made in 1970...
Don't forget AM radios were ridiculous power hogs back in the 20s. 30-40-50 watts to run an AM radio!
That's because 25 watts went to the tube filaments to keep them hot and operating
@@davidpotter9462 They made efficient ones. Farm Radios, which were popular in the 40s and 50s before everyone in remote areas had electricity. I've seen tube AM battery operated radios running on a watt and a half.
Older tubes had a big filament that glowed, and the tubes were bigger so took more heat to work... batteries were big back then
@@davidpotter9462 The reason the batteries were large is because tubes are high voltage devices and there were no solid state voltage regulators and DC cannot be increased with a transformer without a "vibrator." (which use a lot of power, but generates pulsed DC which can be put through a transformer)
45, 67 and 90 were common AB battery (A is for the filament and B is for B+) B voltages. The A is low voltage, usually 3 or 4.5 requiring only a couple or few internal cells. But a 90v B section needs 60 1.5v cells in series.
A lot of car radios had vibrators to generate the higher voltages (they were 6V systems)
The cheap farm radios generally went through a five dollar battery (A lot of money in the 40s and 50s) in 5 hours.
I remember seeing one of those batteries in 1960, and I asked how much it cost...the answer I got was 75 cents. I saved up and bought one so that I could make a fish shocker with a model T coil.
It mystifies me as to how many dummies prattle on about how fast an alternator has to turn really really fast, or about how Tesla turbines "have no torque. Clearly they have never heard of gears and gear ratios. Power is torque*rpm*(unit conversion factor). A high rpm turbine that needs more torque can have torque increased by gearing down the rpm, and a high torque turbine can obtain the desired rpm by gearing up the rpm at the expense of torque. Most alternators can be rotated by hand, and don't need much torque at the required rpm thresholds.
Just try to spin a car alternator by hand, you dummy.
Great video..but lose the music
Noted thank you
Blade numbers - an interesting interpretation - though not correct. Sorry.
Piggot is pronounced like spigot...i asked him specifically once lol
Lol, that's nice to know, I've literally knew for years now that I've been mispronouncing it.
Very informative and honest, but I'm still waiting for the hot blonde...
🤣
Not cheap electric anymore
In order for a wind generator to work on you must have wind ..been 5 weeks ..no wind no sun .😡
That sucks