How Each Akatsuki Member Does in Orochimaru's Position in Konoha Crush
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- This is the newest video in my what if vs battle hybrid series. For videos like this I usually take a battle and swap out one opponent with many others to gauge how will they would do in the original fighter’s circumstances. For example I’ve done a video where instead of pain and konan attacking the leaf, I discussed how the other akatsuki duos could have done in their position. This video is similar in that it’s about how Akatsuki members do in Orochimaru’s position when he attacked the leaf. DeathReaper commented a similar idea for this video, so I’ll give him some credit for this video. If you have any ideas for more videos like this comment them down below,. Each akatsuki member will have the sound and sand forces aiding them along with the one tails. The problem is that we know based off the original timeline that all of their support will be handily defeated after an hour. Each akatsuki member will first have to defeat hiruzen in the sound 4’s barrier and if they do it’s likely they do it before all their support is wiped anyway. Hiruzen’s and Orochimaru’s fight was absurdly long, so if they beat Hiruzen early enough they can try to turn the tide afterwards. Orochimaru wanted to primarily kill hiruzen and secondly destroy the leaf. Those are the two win conditions and retreating is an option since orochimaru chose to.
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#naruto #sasuke #akatsuki
God imagine having to fight Hiruzen and THEN a three man lineup of Jirayia, Kakashi, and Guy. Sheesh.
That's def a crazy battle.
I would be more scared of guy because of the fact he probably has the seventh and eight gate
Madara would have a fun
@@seanchristian7677 Hell yeah.
@@gameuniverse5973 I'd be scared of Kakashi. You'd die slowly in the Kamui Dimension
Hiruzen's mental nerf against Orochimaru specifically has you downplaying Hiruzen's stats in a few of these match ups. Despite his stamina problem Hiruzen is still implied to be greater than or relative to the current five kages in speed, strength, AP, and durability.
Orochimaru also was mentally nerfed so it evens out
Retcon
@@SRVaris orochimaru was not mentally buffed.
@@Xanny7777 He was mentally nerfed(he was literally crying) not buffed
He also fought Orochimaru while mortality wounded for an hour
I don’t think that deidera can beat hiruzen in a confined space without killing himself, Also like u said hiruzen knows all of the chakra nature so I feel like he would be able to counter the explosive clay easily
If he figures out it’s earth style he would most likely win. But that’s if he figures it out. I also agree that a confined space is not in Deidera’s best interest
@@angrydaniel2905 well Hiruzen is supposed to be pretty smart and in the naruto universe certain hands signs are almost universally used to help mold chakra to certain chakra natures, so you can usually tell the nature of a jutsu by its hand signs if it isn’t already evident based on the look of the jutsu itself. for example the tiger hand seal is typically for fire, snake for earth, bird for wind and dog for water, a jutsu of a specific nature will usually end or start with the corresponding hand seal I think Hiruzen KNOWN AS THE PROFESSOR MASTER OF ALL FIVE BASIC NATURE TRANSFORMATIONS will know this, thus knowing to use lightning.
Bro, Deidara isn't beating Hiruzen period.
Deidara needs too get on his bird or dragon too stand a chance you can't convince me he can beat hiruzen if he on the ground
@@dylanbarrett508 although Deidara has C-4 even when sasuke had lightning style he couldn't stop the nano bombs with it, he had he do so with his sharingan and Hiruzen doesen't have one plus, in a confined space the nano bombs would get to Hiruzen alot faster unlike when Sasuke fought Deidara in a open forest.
Dont forget hiruzen at no point actually fought seriously against Orochimaru until the very end when he took his arms. Near death he was able to overpower him, which is why you see Orochimarus entire face change when he does so. Hiruzen alone was able to push bac the gedo statue....hes a beast but he was old and holding back greatly because ultimately he cares too much about everyone...like danzo and Orochimaru, and hesitates to deal with those he cares about...
Yes but the feeling is mutual with Orochimaru. He wasn’t trying most of the battle either. In an unlikely scenario where both characters have blood lust, Orochimaru is still stronger, he just wouldn’t leave the battle without heavily sustained injury
Edo hiruzen has unlimited chakra reserve
@@pettyoffndebe163 Yes he was, thats specifically why he waited so long to attack. He wasnt taking ANY chances against Hiruzen, and waited until he was old and frail to fight him. Plus wanted to use 3 edo's against him instead of just the 2 he summoned.
@@pettyoffndebe163 Orochimaru WAS trying pretty hard against Hiruzen.
Orochimaru knew he'd be outmatched even against an old Hiruzen, so he brought three Edo tensei of the other Hokage to ensure he'd be able to crush his master, and even with two Edo Tensei he wasn't able to do it without losing his arms and almost being sealed himself (it's possible that if Hiruzen hadn't been stabbed by Orochimaru's sword he would've had enough strength to finish the sealing)
@@narufan987 The reason Hiruzen pulled out the Reaper Death Seal is because he had nothing left to use against Orochimaru, as nothing else would work. Start of the match, I could say they’re evenly matched or hirzuen even slightly edges out. But his stamina got the better of him to the point where even the reaper death seal, a seal where one could overpower their opponent even if they’re equal or lesser strength to them, was only capable of taking Orochimarus arms. And even without the sword stab, it was a constant struggle where Orochimaru didn’t even know about it until it was already in the process of taking his soul. One example. Minato hands down DOES NOT brute strength the nine tails without Bijuu Sage Mode. But, he was able to seal the nine tails with a nail impaled through his torso and still split the soul in half and seal it into two entities, being himself and his son. Yet same scenario hiruzen struggles to seal two arms. No way that Hiruzen “wasn’t trying” and Orochimaru was trying his hardest. The real reason he pulled the Edo tensei on Hiruzen is because he still had subconscious feelings towards his old master, and didn’t have enough bloodlust to actually take him out on his own.
Bruh you come in clutch, I love these video topics
It would be different because hiruzen wouldn’t have a attachment to the akatsuki
"Lastly there's Pain"
Me: What... You're not gonna include Obito giga one tapping Hiruzen then proceeding to solo the village?
*sad Kamui noises*
Bro, Obito fought the damn Yondaime at 14, extracted Kurama from his wife and tanked a Rasengan from Hokage Minato. He really doesn't need to be here since it's just overkill
Does he even count anyways I was about to Say TimeTravel Kabuto or Sasuke but...
If Kabuto went his Sage Mode + Edo Tensei just kinda 1 Taps the Village he legit would have the Dead Akatsuki could get Kakazu a few hearts fusion attacks + his own Inorganic Reanimation would body.
Now how Taka would do I wonder...
How would Obito counter Reaper death seal?
@@TheBigExclusive well for starters Obito is superior in all stats and would end the fight seconds after it starting. Even if Hiruzen manages to break Obito's genjutsu (which I doubt he could) he'd just get kamui'd.
Obito outclasses Hiruzen in all stats. Hiruzen wouldn't be able to grab Obito or really do anything at all. He just loses.
@@TheBigExclusive Kamui.
Very interesting topic but I believe Hiruzen is being underestimated. Against Deidara, Hiruzen has lighting style and he should be able to damage the susuno with a similar attack he did in the fight with the 9 tails
You can't actually believe that hiruzen lighting style is even close to Sasuke. Hiruzen it's 100% not proficient enough to beat deidara. He would literally small bombs everywhere and murder hiruzen.
PS: I have a duck video, a chicken video, a video where i am begging for money on Twitter... Also a patreon
Hiruzen does not have hebi sasuke level lightning style or even kakashi lmfao
itachis sheild would block the monkey stick
I agree, i think itachi's susano is comparable to that of MS sasuke and if danzo was able to damage it heavly with his wind style, then hiruzen's five styles combo that he used against zetsu would harm itachi, unless he uses the yata miror, i think itachi also suffers alot against gai, the speed difference between 7th gate gai and itachi will be huge, even if itachi someway could get pass gai he would be to exausted to fight jiraya and kakashi, i think itachi caught orochimaru off guard and put him under a genjutsu, if everyone knows not to look him in the eyes jiraya would be a big problem for itachi especialy if he has his sage mode in part one.
@@iwanttobeabillionaire1703 why would Hebi Sasuke be stronger than Hiruzen? Sasuke himself stated that he was weaker than full power Orochimaru (and only beat him because his body was decaying and couldn't really use jutsu), and Hiruzen has HIGH level in the 5 chakra releases, his lightning style is most definitely top tier.
That being said, Hiruzen would have to defeat Deidara quickly before he uses his C4
Great vid but I’ll just point out a few things you forgot:
Enma was strong enough to push the 9 tails out of the village with ease so it should be able to pin Kakuzu who isn’t stronger than the full 9 tails.
Deidara and Kakuzu both have an extreme weakness to lightning and Hiruzen can read signs mid weave so he’d figure them both out quickly Deidara’s explosives will almost be useless once he figures this out especially with Shadow Clones and same with Kakuzu’s masks and even in his defensive mode he’s still weak to lightning. Also based on the fact he was revived as an old man and countered a Nature Release attack that was about to wipe out 90% of the allied forces and Kakuzu’s masks were barely harming Kakashi alone he should far out class him.
As far as Sasori he has that Giant Shuriken he used on Obito and then cloned using Shadow Shuriken. which forced a ten tails Jin to use his truth seeking orbs as defense that combined with Enma being able to strike from any distance should be able to counter Sasori pretty sufficiently. Especially since he’s a master of Shuriken Jutsu. Also 1 or 2 Wind Jutsu like he used in the war might just break his core and his puppets.
Lastly you aren’t accounting for the fact that Hiruzen’s Combat IQ should far surpass anybody on this list except Itachi and maybe Nagato Even if the others are geniuses he’s likely been in 20x the battles. Also Kisame might end up forcing him to use Genjutsu since he’s also a master of every type of battle and if push comes to shove Enma is much more physically imposing than Samehada and smarter. So it is possible that he could disarm Kisame and Enma can keep samehada away bc I think you forgot Enma can act remotely as well lol. But great video!!
Kakuzu fought hashirama and is even older and has most likely been in more fights than even hiruzen based on age as far as combat iq is concerned
The thing is that this Hiruzen is older than the one who did that an pinning down Kakazu isn't gonna help if he's using his Masks from the side or playing defensive and Hiruzen would have to be fighting in full condition to replicate something like that maybe because it isn't Orochimaru he will fight more seriously but if the lore demands it we either won't fight as seriously because he won't be mentally amped or he will fight to an equal level for most of the whole fight in which he will only slowly deteriorate...
I know they have lightning Weakness although it's unknown what Lighting Hiruzen would use maybe he could do something like Kakashi but he might not be able to get rid of the problem even if he knows the Chidori he might not have it be a Lighting Blade like Kakashi...
The Giant Shuriken I don't know what to say about that.
Kisame it's weird but I think the problem is that this Hiruzen is older and it's likely even if he thinks of something it will be too late as he would already have to figure it out takes Chakra then it can heal him if he got it off him once then it can act independently and will go back to him much easier and even then Kisame still has the Water Dome and fusing with Samehada as possible increase conditions...
@@bcb5696 That is a good point as far as experience goes but Hiruzen is still much smarter than him. He got destroyed by Hashirama tho.
@@shikadaithe6thkazekage120 yeah I don’t think kakuzu would beat young hiruzen but I think he’s close in terms of knowledge and experience
You can't use generic metal weapon attacks against the Magnet Release of the 3rd Kazekage though.
Sasori will just redirect those shuriken at best, or turn them back on Hiruzen at worst.
And for Wind (or other elemental attacks) that's what the Iron Sand is for, a literal iron defense.
This is assessing Hiruzen in a very flawed approach imo. Hiruzen comes off weak due to Part 1 being when he died. Hiruzen has busted levels of combat IQ, quickly deducting the nature of attacks in seconds of witnessing it. He has all 5 Chakra natures. He knows effectively every Konoha jutsu, and his summon is a monster in and of itself. He fought Orochimaru and the nerfed 1st + 2nd Hokage for an hour. That's an insane statement to his ability as all 3 were kage level.
Lore wise, Hiruzen is stated to be the superior to all living kage at that point in time as well. Most of the Akatsuki are getting washed. Pain and Obito are the only 2 I can see winning without too much ofna problem. Hiruzen knows of Susano and of the Mangekyou Sharingan. He'd never get caught in Tsukyoumi. Only chance Itachi has is with Amaterasu as Itachi himself has stamina issues and spaming MS will blind him and nearly kill him.
Kisame would have a shot if he starts off with his strongest jutsu otherwise he has a chance to get countered. Kakuzu and Sasori would be fodderized as the Chakra natures for Kakuzu are easily countered and Sasori's puppets can be destroyed with Shuriken kage bushin stacked with wind Chakra. Deidara wins if he decides killing himself is worth it.
Deidara suicide bomb win? I don't think so if Hiruzen is one of the strongest kage and just think even early shippuden Sasuke was able to avoid that blast what makes you think that Hiruzen who should be faster than Sasuke cannot just quickly escape the blast range. I think a better outcome of the fight would be if Deidara uses his tiny bombs the nano sized bombs because Hiruzen can't see them only reason Sasuke got out is because of his sharingan to see them and his lightning release.
But Hiruzen knows reverse summoning so even then he loses (although he'd just blow up the village)
@@Naglfar94 But even then he gets countered. Chakra can be seen sure but also sensed and can be attributed to the 5 senses (Karin can "feel" chakra and give it expressions like warmth, cold, dark. Kiba can smell presence and scent which we know chakra can leave "residue" since Kabuto when he was shedding Itachi noticed pieces of his chakra all around). Hiruzen deduces jutsu in a glance. While I don't necessarily like him as a Hokage leader, he's a battle prodigy and given his experience and wisdom he's a monster.
Let's put it this way. Onoki is WASHING Deidara if they were to ever get serious (of course particle style), but Hiruzen is just stated to be stronger and can in one glance understand how more sophisticated and powerful truth seeker orbs with yin-yang release in them are compared to particle style
@@emssasukeisunderrated7946 You think Deidara still gets countered eh? I dunno man most of the ninja you mentioned all have some kind of sensory ability and Karin is a senor type so of course she can feel the chakra. Kiba just has a strong nose and Kabuto can be attributed to him just being so damn strong in sage mode that and remember Itachi also had sharingan active sharingan can see chakra all the time similar to how byakugan can see chakra Itachi keeps his eyes on 24/7. Hiruzen is a battle genius yes but I do not think he would be able to get away fast enough even after figuring out the jutsu to survive he would have already breathe them in as he wouldn't even see them.it took sasuke needing sharingan to get out and even then he still needed to use lightning style on himself to save himself.
the only thing I can see Hiruzen doing since he has every chakra nature is using lightning release to save himself and he should have by the time Deidara uses that attack know to counter his explosive with lightning style. as for sensory type I am not sure how good of a sensor Hiruzen was can't remember if there were any moments in the manga where he displayed high sensory. I am not saying Hirzuen is weak or anything I know he is a strong asf kage and know he is by far one of the strongest period among the 5 kage at the time but it is just hard for me to imagine anyone escaping Deidara mini bombs without either sharingan, byakugan or even a rinnegan to see the bombs. so I am sorry I just don't see Hiruzen pulling a win if he gets caught in that unless he spams lightning chakra nature to defuse them.
@@Naglfar94 I can understand your point to a degree but similar to what was said in the video, you need to factor in not just one's abilities but the statements, lore and feats of a character. Seeing how a character pulling the win is completely different from them just blatantly scaling and lore wise being able to win. Styles can make a fight mainly if stats equalize but that's the thing, stats ARE NOT equalized here nor are skill and strength relative between the two combatants
Hiruzen is just scoffing at Deidara. Also, Hiruzen is a sensor too and I brought up abilities referring to how chakra can be seen or felt cause it's not just exclusive directly to certain characters. Sure actually seeing chakra as color is only for the dojutsu mainly but chakra being sensed and felt can be done by any great sensor.
Regardless, I doubt someone at Deidara's level is gonna be able to out ninjutsu a complete shinobi like Hiruzen even if he has a kekkei genkai ninjutsu. Especially if we know someone with a kekkei tota ninjutsu couldn't even at any point in time while both are from the same generation (this kekkei tota guy is far stronger than Deidara too). We know those with high level skill in ninjutsu can replicate kekkei genkai by mixing multiple natures at once too and Hiruzen being one of the few to naturally obtain all nature types (with Hashirama, Tobirama and Mu) without aid of sharingan, rinnegan or six paths power I would say is no doubt capable of doing this
Deidera really has become the most overrated member of the Akatsuki which sucks cuz I love his character. As soon as someone recognizes his explosives are earth style they are really easy to counter if that person has lightning style. Hiruzen would obviously recognize this immediately and counter using his arsenal of lightning attacks. Hiruzen has answers for all of Deidera's attacks and Deidera doesn't for Hiruzen's. Deidera is also a cocky and careless fighter. I see Hiruzen's experience playing a big factor here. I don't see how Deidera wins. At best I see him pulling out a tie by blowing them both up.
Kakazu I think is disadvantaged against Hiruzen. Hiruzen can counter all his attacks and due to each heart just using 1 style he would know which style to use and would have shadow clones to use. All the hearts can be one shotted if you use the correct chakra nature against them. Endurance no longer matters because of this. The 3rd is very tactical. We see what Shikamaru did to kakazu with just a water scroll. Now imagine what someone with all 5 chakra natures could do. It's also worth pointing out that Kakashi was able to sneak up on Kakazu and destroy a heart very easily. Emna is also a power house.
Itachi would beat Hiruzen for sure, but the rest of the leaf? Using any of the MS abilities uses a lot of chakra and damages the eye. Itachi was forced to retreat each time he used these abilities in part 1. Also I don't think Itachi is taking 8 gates Guy who would likely emerge once things seemed hopeless. I'm pretty sure he could shatter the susanoo as Tsunade was able to crack Madara's perfect susanoo.
Disagree wit the kakazu part one hiruzen would have to figure out which mask has which style then he’s not faster or stronger than kakazu so kakazu is pressing his wit taijutsu wit his hardened skin and on top of that his durability is insane tanking tailed beast bombs n strikes from a mentally amp 2 tails
@@idkwhodatbe8416 I mean how’s hard is it to figure out what nature the masks are “oh 1 mask shot a fire ball at me and oh one shot a wing stream at me and one shot a lightning bolt at me I wonder what natures they are”
Kakuzu took damage from the water scroll only because his mask made a mistake. Also keep in mind kakuzu was fighting off 2 other people at the same time so was kind of distracted when that happened.
@@idkwhodatbe8416 Kakashi immediately figured out the weakness to his hardened skin. Why couldn't hiruzen?
@@olivemoon2545 Yes Kakazu's mask made a mistake. Shikamaru used the water scroll knowing it would. I'm Obviously saying Hiruzen could do the same. And Hiruzen is most likely using shadow clones in this fight. Would also be a distraction
I think your underrating hiruzen a bit here. But love these videos keep ‘em coming!
Also. You should do the reverse video. Every akatsuki member vs orochimaru and 2 reanimated hokage
While I agree with many of your points, there's a few things I'd like to mention:
-Considering Hiruzen can use all 5 chakra natures, including lightning, he should have no trouble getting around Kakuzu's defensive ability, given the fact it's an earth-style jutsu. That's why I think Kakuzu loses.
-While I think Deidara deserves credit for having the fire-power necessary to not only beat Hiruzen but also destroy the Leaf with his C3 bombs, I don't think Deidara could use the explosives necessary to kill Hiruzen without killing himself. Like you said, the barrier really is a double-edged sword for Deidara since he can't fly away anymore, which he always does to avoid getting damaged by his own explosives. Therefore, I think Deidara should be in a tier lower since he can definitely kill Hiruzen, but he can't destroy the Leaf after since he'd probably be dead.
Anyone below Kisame in the Akatsuki would fail and anyone above him, meaning: Itachi, Pain and Obito would definitly succeed. The question is if Kisame would succeed, not could because he definitly could but that's really different then would, Deidara technically could because he has the firepower but even in these imaginary scenarios where he does he can only do so by killing himself and let's all be real, in no realistic or whatever adjective you want to use, in no way he actually would, even killing himself wouldn't work because Hiruzen would have ended him long before he succeed on doing that. Sasori is in the same place as Deidara, that he technically could but in no way in hell would actually be able to do It, he's even stronger then Deidara and maybe has a better chance against Hiruzen because of his Poison, but that's all you can say, a better chance then Deidara is still Very little chance, and you could make a argument for Deidara being better placed to fight Hiruzen then Sasori. I Hope at this point i don't have to explain why Kakuzu wouldn't win against Hiruzen either.
Deidara can use the Nano-Bombs without hurting himself while also spamming tiny bombs, would murder Hiruzen>Stamina diff.
Thing is why are we assuming that Deidara will have the same type of barrier as orochimaru? If he planned the konoha crush he'd probably make it more like a huge wall instead of a box
I left after you stated Kakuzu could beat Hiruzen. That’s laughable and absurd considering Hiruzen was still the strongest Kage in his old age and shattered the god tree with a freaking stick.
Honestly just came for the comments because i already know what akatsuki he can and cant take in a 1v1. And after i read yours I definitely don’t need to watch💀💀🤣🤣
I’m convinced he is just trolling to bait engagement
Kakuzu destroys hiruzen.
Yea this dude must be like super biased or something. I’m sorry but Hiruzen is literally only losing to Itachi,obito and pain and even for them it won’t be low diff. He just has way to many jutsu some we might not have even seen and technically he can beat them all if he chooses to use reaper death seal and tbh he probably would in this situation. I feel like we’ve never seen him fight a fair one on one battle at full strength with out nerfs.
@@OlaneaSpirit please explain how kakazu would beat someone who has every chakra nature and has masted every single jutsu he attempted. His monkey summon is amongst the strongest of summons if not the strongest(not counting tailed beasts). Only 1 of 3 people to be referred to as a “god”. Would kakazu beat the 4th raikage?
I know why you didn't include them because it would have been over before it started but I can't believe you didn't put Konan in.
"I didn't expect for the Akatsuki to do this well considering that Orochimaru didn't"
To be fair, the other Akatsuki members have a big advantage simply because they were introduced in Shippuden.
The power levels in Part 1 simply didn't have anything exotic. Being able to having a bit of lightning in your fist was still the coolest thing ever.
Imagine if Orochimaru could use his White Snake body or 8 Branches technique. Imagine if he could summon thousands of snakes at once.
Orochimaru didn't have super poison, or super bombs, or super Mangekyou, or super magic sword, or super Rinnegan powers.
Imagine if Samehada could only grow and change shape like the Kusanagi sword or the Adamantine Staff.
Imagine if Hiruzen was still throwing out Ninjutsu like Kakuzu was, instead of messing around with Root Tile shuriken, lmao.
They were limited to what was really impressive at the time, meanwhile, Orochimaru was still mostly focused on having fun / tormenting Hiruzen.
Like, after he summoned the Edo Hokage what did Orochimaru do? He just ... kind of stood there. Watching.
He didn't step in to help fight until Hiruzen summoned Monkey King Enma, and then Hiruzen almost immediately lost because he couldn't attack Orochimaru *and* defend against the two Edo Hokage at the same time. It was only after that Hirzen resolved himself to use the Reaper Death Seal, and poofed out two Shadow Clones because he was dying anyway. And even then, he was only able to grab Orochimaru *because* he had accepted he was dying. Remember, Orochimaru had stabbed him through with the Kusanagi Blade and if Hiruzen wasn't committed to dying anyway then he'd have been forced to dodge and probably never would have landed any other kind of winning strike on Orochimaru.
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Also IMO Sasori does a bit better than presented. I don't think Hiruzen makes it past the Iron Sand. Which means Sasori still has his 100 + his own body to fight the Leaf.
Not that Sasori is going to suddenly destroy the Leaf, but he does an awful lot better when he can add himself and his 100 to the offensive force.
Maybe Jiraiya / Kakashi / Guy can still shut him down before he gets too many kills, but 100 flying enemies that all win with a single scratch is pretty deadly.
Chiyo and Sakura only did so well because Chiyo gave them the means to dodge Sasori's puppets *and* safely fight Sasori's puppets (with her own puppets).
Somebody like Hiruzen doesn't have that same advantage. So even though he's *generally* stronger, he's forced to use more defensive/offense ninjutsu or risk getting scractched.
He's old, he's not going to know the puppet patterns. He's not going to risk dancing through the senbon when he can just throw up a Mud Wall or blow them away with Wind Release.
But those things are going to slow him down and draw on his stamina that he can't afford to lose. He's going to have to summon Enma or use a big jutsu just to get through Hiruko.
Then he has to do the same thing for the 3rd puppet, can't get close or he'll get overwhelmed by dozens of arms, or poison gas, or other random trick weapons.
His Adamantine Cage isn't going to defend him very well against Iron Sand bullets or the Iron Sand spears or the Iron Sand World Order.
All of those things are going to force him to use a lot more chakra defending himself. If he even can (Sakura and Chiyo couldn't).
You also have to consider how the 3rd Kazekage was defeated: Sakura pretend to be poisoned so Sasori lowered his guard. Hiruzen can't do that.
Maybe he could destroy it with a big ninjutsu or by extending Enma suddenly but... is Sasori really going to let that happen? The fight is totally different.
Against Sakura & Chiyo - Sasori was safe to spam a few light attacks to completely shut down Chiyo's puppets.
Against Sakura & Chiyo - They had the means to repeatedly fight against the Gathering Assault, Chiyo could puppet Sakura, Sakura could punch them away.
Hiruzen can do that for a little bit, but at what point is Sasori going to give Hiruzen the opening to actually destroy the puppet? I don't see it happening.
Not without a single scratch.
But a single scratch is instant victory for Sasori.
Alright...
Yeah I guess that's true with the part 1 part 2 stuff where things didn't have to show the difference they could just be like that although even then I guess Hidan still exists.
You say Sasori does so much better but I think that with how the Barrier ends up being a double Edged Sword and Hiruzen's fatigue or his will to fight it could end up being a bit of a long battle.
Regardless Hiruzen can't avoid forever and Sasori won't be going all out until he get's out of that Shell which Hiruzen likely will use Enma or some combination Jutsu to take out.
In the end it's likely he still goes down I don't want to use Filler but I think it's fine here since I can have an argument that still works in the favor of both sides assuming Sasori get's this far.
In that one Filler Naruto was able to take out a massive amount of Puppets that might have been creater even if we say it's 100 or half he probably made 200 clones the reason this should be mentioned is because Naruto after the waves doesn't 1K which seems to imply he needs a mental amp or to be seriously fighting to make such an amount I think him creating Near 100 Rasengan's is comparable to making 1K Clones knowing that he needs to make himself then each copy have a clone then they all need to have enough Chakra to make a Rasengan and then still use it it might be comparable in Chakra and if not it's at least comparable or surpasses the Control.
Now those Puppet's might have been weaker after looking at the fight either you say they are weaker or this AU where I think Minato is alive is just stacked regardless Naruto with a Mental Amp could be damn near Kage Level depending on how you define such tiers especially in a point like this.
Chiyo and Sakura were quite able to deal with the Puppets of 100 or more when it was the 10 grand ones and Sakura vs them and the Vortex took care of most of that.
The best thing I think I can give Sasori is the Weakest where the puppets power compares to High-Jonin or a Kage or that every Puppet Is Kage Level or Mid Kage and it's depedent on how he controls them after seeing they each have different weapons the true best Scenario would be that each Weapon can Poison or do heavy Damage with how he controls them but even for him I think it's kinda implied on how when he losses his forces the remaining puppets become stronger that himself and the puppets would be able to fight far better when he uses less of them.
Personally in my opinion that Filler not only could be broken but that Sasori might be weaker and was still in the Shell I think so it made it harder likely this Sasori wouldn't be although the statement of how his puppets and just the idea that the less he has the more control he will use over the others kinda makes sense just think of Pain's Paths how the Deva is clearly the strongest but when the others are down it can get stronger they have like Chakra blades I think so you could just imply now he's using more Chakra in the puppets that are left.
I think the problem would be how easily some of the early puppets get taken down by these High Level Jonin and others and just the idea that well he might cause mass havoc I think Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Guy if he really pulls out a HiruDora would be able to do something.
Jiraiya's summoings might be able to counter but if he faces Jiraiya and the Toad Alone it's likely that he will eventually wear down Gamabunta although this comes with it's troubles as well as the others might pick off his Puppets or prepare to while this goes down.
Kakashi has his dogs which I doubt would be useful so mainly it would just focus on his ability to take them out he has 1000 Jutsu he probably can find a few elemental ones that might work and use his Sharingan although I feel like if he was fighting alone he eventually would become Overwhelmed.
Guy has the Gates a HiruDora would be bad if it hit the Puppets as if Sasori has any left after that while it might be helpful he losses the pressure he gains but then maybe he can take out Guy although if he get's back up by the others late then it doesn't help.
In these 3 Situations I've tried to break down how good they can do with Kakashi arguably doing the worst because he might not have mass destruction or overly great defensive Jutsu's we know about.
Without Kamui it's quite hard for him to do much.
Although the fact that it's likely the situations would be fused and he might face all 3 it just wouldn't be worth it esepcially if more came into I think him fleeing is the best situation but if he get's the best scenario where all his Puppets have Poison or something and they all like Kage Level or he can control them to fight at such levels and he doesn't get offguarded on most of them then maybe he can take down the village a whole lot although it still wouldn't be as easy for him to take out what's left and what might fight him back knowing that I don't know how this What-if would completely go but regardless if he had the Summoings on his side or not he might have to face some toads and Jiraiya's summoings and this would be after fighting Hiruzen which could be quick or long I think it's best just to say that he likely causes a lot of damage to the leaf but see's it as not worth to waste anymore of his puppets or forces and they retreat.
Sigh... That took a long time to think and write about but luckily and unluckily this fast speed helps.
The Flying part is really what makes those Puppets massively Dangerous and Onoki, Six Paths Naruto, Susanoo's with Wings, and only a select Few + Otsotsuki's seem to know how to do that also Garra on his Nimbus.
Guy just ones shots all the puppets with hirudora that thing covered a big radius
Mans wrote a whole essay on Christmas break, in the CZcams comments
I didn’t read all that but yeah, power scaling is dumb for that reason and many others.
@@fabledogify Wait who are you talking too me or them?
Hiruzen won't have heavy mental nerfs here, except against itachi probably. Even while mental nerfed he was going even with or overpowering orochimaru for a lot of the fight while orochimaru had 2 high tier hokage reanimations, (even though they're much weaker than the alive versions, they were somewhat relative to hiruzen and orochimaru). Also enma is much more than a stick, he was giving the reanimations hands by himself. Pretty sure enma is washing hidan, kakuzu and deidara even without hiruzen's help. Even if sasori could use his puppet army in that amount of space, enma staff, fire style or shuriken shadow clone jutsu could take them out. Kisame should win if he does the water dome, otherwise he should get beat up by taijutsu from hiruzen and enma, there's almost no chance hiruzen doesn't know what samehada does so staff mode wouldn't make sense. Itachi can probably gg with tsukuyomi and beat whichever one is left of the duo with susanoo. After that though he's kinda fucked cuz he used mangekyo twice and guy is a Savage. Pain should clap up hiruzen and enma with almighty push, but then he has to fight guy and jiraiya, and I don't see that working out for him given that jiraiya can take out a couple pains and guy should be about as strong as 8 tails with 7th gate so he should be able to over power almighty push which is probably the biggest threat to him.
@Justin Arzola hiruzen would get clapped by tsukuyomi, yes. if you're talking about guy though he'd never look at itachi's eyes. maybe he could get guy with efemeral but other ninja could snap him out of it. with genjutsu off the table like that, guy is working an exhausted(maybe partially blind at that point, hard to say) itachi all day.
Anyone below Kisame in the Akatsuki would fail and anyone above him, meaning: Itachi, Pain and Obito would definitly succeed. The question is if Kisame would succeed, not could because he definitly could but that's really different then would, Deidara technically could because he has the firepower but even in these imaginary scenarios where he does he can only do so by killing himself and let's all be real, in no realistic or whatever adjective you want to use, in no way he actually would, even killing himself wouldn't work because Hiruzen would have ended him long before he succeed on doing that. Sasori is in the same place as Deidara, that he technically could but in no way in hell would actually be able to do It, he's even stronger then Deidara and maybe has a better chance against Hiruzen because of his Poison, but that's all you can say, a better chance then Deidara is still Very little chance, and you could make a argument for Deidara being better placed to fight Hiruzen then Sasori. I Hope at this point i don't have to explain why Kakuzu wouldn't win against Hiruzen either.
I think you are sleeping on Sasori, he was both heavily holding back and recklessly underestimating in his fight and Chiyo is really impressive as well. He easily defeated the strongest Kazekage and then basically had a kage-level amp by adding him to his collection. He is literally a rival to Orochimaru in the story as well with both spying on each other. Prime Chiyo rivalled Kakashi's dad who was supposedly superior to the Sannin and Edo Chiyo fought a KCM1 clone similar to the one that beat the 3rd Raikage for hours, reacting to it's attacks.
Sasori is on Sannin level, possibly above, Hiruzen might still win due to no mental nerfs, but it's gonna be a hard fight.
No, Enma and Hiruzen lose to Deidara. Kisame is not losing a match against Hiruzen, even in Taijutsu, considering this is a what if I don't see why Itachi couldnt spam mangekyo sharingan techniques if he needed to, you're also forgetting he has the entire one tail jinchuriki on his side as well as Kabuto who kinda shit on Kakashi and Tsunade, as well as the Sound 4, If you're saying Pain loses to the Leaf Village, with the 1 tail, sound 4 and almost entire sound army you're smoking some shit.
Saying Kisame gets beat up be taijutsu seems a bit too much considering his performance against Bee
Healthy itachi, my favorite non canon character
Legit just have it be a bit over Edo doesn't Change the fact that Itachi is just way too strong Healthy Itachi might compare to Obito Orange Mask Full Power or be a bit weaker then the Level of White Mask.
Rinnegan Itachi is weird as the battles in Naruto are weird but it's likely that he beats Orange Mask and probably could beat the 5 Kage in the summit but would struggle.
Healthy Rinnegan Itachi who knows how to use his ability and cured his Sickness likely is above One Rinnegan Obito.
Oh I forgot to mention this is Itachi's Rinnegan from that one Video Idea his Rinnegan ability is Amenotetjikara.
One Eye without Six Paths switches himself with objects or people and the other swiches others the only difference is if it's others he can't actually teleport himself although I don't think that makes a difference if he has one or 2 Eyes since he still has the 6 Paths abilities and if a Paricle Style tried to hit him either he would absorb it or switch his own place or the Place of Onoki into something Itachi is very perceptive and will likely take out all of them.
IT only becomes Overkill when he has 2 Rinnegan's and is Healthy I can assume he has Bijuu Level's of Chakra at this point as even Kakashi in Part 1 might be Bijuu Level and well getting MS made Sasuke's Chakra to such a high level that someone with Bijuu's Level of Chakra (Ay) thought the Base Sharingan wasn't enough but once it was Mangekyo it was questionable regardless of the amount the Rinnegan has power in it whether you argue Madara's or just the thing itself it's still at least an increase and likely could act as another Mangekyo buff which we can see as 10X then 10X so Itachi just got a Second Release form.
By this point he probably still beats White Mask a bit easier but still falls Short of most versions of Madara that actually Try.
Now Six Paths Itachi where he doesn't need to Switch is more comparable to Juubi Madara and likely Slaps every JuubiMadara and Below that doesn't have 2 Rinnegan's or 3 Eyes.
Now Boruto Six Paths Itachi well Likely is a bit stronger than Naruto but still probably doesn't compare to Baryon.
So I can't completely narrow it down as I'm trying to take the idea of Edo or Sick Itachi and give it benefits but I think the idea is healthy Itachi would be quite Comfy above Edo in power and ability and be able to use such abilites for longer but even then they have a limit.
Any buffs after that place them in a level from beyond Kage to nearing Six Paths but always seeming to fall a bit short.
Nah my favorite non canon char is dms Obito and karma sage mode Naruto
@@gameuniverse5973 WAit a minute DMS Obito is Canon.
Also Karma Sage Mode against Pain?
@@zelz3011 dms Obito when he not half dead and karma sage mode Naruto on what if Naruto went and killed Kaguya with the rashuriken barrage which means he would gain a karma from Kaguya
@@gameuniverse5973 I don't think Kaguya has a Karma and that didn't really kill her it just kinda messed her Bijuu energy up.
Well I guess she said that one thing about being Immortal but in my head I don' think that means she revives I think Black Zetsu's is her walmart Karma and that's all she has because she's a sacrificial member of the clan.
I thought it was the Urashiki bs and then Naruto has Kurama and Karma the entire series and against Pain.
Yeah Obito when he isn't half dead but what does that DMS Obito do?
Been waiting for a vid😌😌
I believe that Kisame completes this task with ease. He counters people who rely on ninjutsu which is what Hiruzen does. Also, kenjutsu wise Hiruzen is outclassed here Kisame having Samehada and being one of the seven ninja swordsmen gives him the advantage there. We don't even need to talk about cardio and chakra. So he definitely gets past Hiruzen and I think it's pretty quick. If he runs into Jiraya I think he beats and he's probably not tired since he would've taken a good amount of chakra from Hiruzen. Last but not least 7th gate Guy beat him without Samehada which is most of Kisame's strength. It's not like Kisame's weak without Samehada but he can't use his transformation and his strongest jutsu without it. But I do believe that if it's a 2v1 scenario like Guy and Kakashi or Jiraya and one of them he probably losses.
Guy solos
Guy literally solos. Samehada would not provide him with enough in order to beat guy. Like what? He steals chakra and moves and hits faster??? Not enough. Guy literally hold his power against him and literally did a one punch man moment.
PS: I have a duck video, a chicken video, a video where i am begging for money on Twitter... Also a patreon
Anyone below Kisame in the Akatsuki would fail and anyone above him, meaning: Itachi, Pain and Obito would definitly succeed. The question is if Kisame would succeed, not could because he definitly could but that's really different then would, Deidara technically could because he has the firepower but even in these imaginary scenarios where he does he can only do so by killing himself and let's all be real, in no realistic or whatever adjective you want to use, in no way he actually would, even killing himself wouldn't work because Hiruzen would have ended him long before he succeed on doing that. Sasori is in the same place as Deidara, that he technically could but in no way in hell would actually be able to do It, he's even stronger then Deidara and maybe has a better chance against Hiruzen because of his Poison, but that's all you can say, a better chance then Deidara is still Very little chance, and you could make a argument for Deidara being better placed to fight Hiruzen then Sasori. I Hope at this point i don't have to explain why Kakuzu wouldn't win against Hiruzen either.
@@iwanttobeabillionaire1703 not really, guy barely beat kisames 30% clone and he had to use the 7th gate to beat it, also kisame didnt have his samihada, kisame stomps guy unless guy goes 8th gates which is a draw cause he would die from using it.
@@marko90 Wtf are you talking about. Guy beat 30% kisame in 6th. Guy one punched him in 7th which gives around a 10x boost difference. Your math doesn't add up. Kisame with samehada it's not 10x stronger than without it. Guy in 7th literally destroys him
PS: I have a duck video, a chicken video, a video where i am begging for money on Twitter... Also a patreon
Best videos on CZcams of all time
The Might Guy argument against Kisame could easily apply to all enemies. It is not an appropriate argument only against Kisame.
I actually think guy solos pain in 7th gate.
PS: I have a duck video, a chicken video, a video where i am begging for money on Twitter... Also a patreon
I agree, gai beats everyone including itachi, i think hirudora beats pain just like it did to kisame pain will try to absorb it but it will instead kill most of the paths.
@@iwanttobeabillionaire1703 disagree one chibaku tensei/chaotic shinra tensei and hes dead
@@salihalraziqi4963 itachi yata mirror is tanking hirudora and pain can 1 shot guy
Honestly think sasori beats way more people than he normally would if he was in orochimaru's situation, simply because he could let off his poison gas cloud inside of the barrier and most opponents won't be able to do anything
Add the fact that he begins the battle disguised as the Kazekage meaning it would be very likely that he has 2 Kazekage puppets, Gold and Iron, sand plus poisons, 100 puppets, and himself inside a barrier jutsu... The old man would go down quick. Also Sasori being a former member of Suna and having participated in the 3rd Shinobi World War would have experience fighting against Konoha.
@Justin Arzola I disagree tbh, it would be kind of unreasonable to say that he could blitz sasori and destroy all of his puppets without the poison being released, also Hiruzen doesn't have medical ninjutsu feats. Even if we assume he "knows every jutsu in the leaf village" that doesn't mean he has medical capabilities close to tsunade. The only reason sasoris poison was neutralized was because tsunade was the ultimate medic ninja
@Justin Arzola No medical jutsu can heal people from poison immediatly. Sakura did well against Sasori because she created an antidote way before the battle
Keep in mind Hiruzen was holding back against orrochimaru he states this a few times and Genma even asked him what's wrong with him.
Enma * genmas the one leaf bodyguard lol
You should have included sage mode Kabuto. He is basically Orochimaru on steroids and even though he never wore an Akatsuki robe he was still technically a member of Akatsuki when he allied with Obito in the war. You should also have included Obito, at least orange mask one.
Both destroy everyone no difficulty. Sage Kabuto was beating Edo Itachi and EMS sasuke easily at the same time, and only lost to a BS plot contrivance. His genjutsu was only broken by Itachi and sasuke using mangekyo sharingan genjutsu on each other simultaneously. Obito is literally untouchable and insanely fast and strong and can use wood style and fire style… and his base sharingan genjutsu was somehow strong enough to control a perfect jinchuriki (who was also a kage).
My Boi Sage Kabuto not only stomps but if this is some Time Travel stuff then he helps his own Kabuto allie likely increasing the Range of the Genjutsu and having legit yourself to watch your back and help strategize would make this completely Broken.
I like to think of it like how in certain Pirate Warriors Missions I have 2 of the same character and combining the Combo Kizuna or whatever stuff is just honestly Broken because you fighting the same style but just greater well it would be a weaker Kabuto they might trip up a few or multiple Shinobi with Advanced Genjutsu and just have the Village bodied Jiraiya likely can't beat him as he has a Manda Summon that's greater and would compare then he's like stronger Orochimaru Kakashi couldn't win if he get's Negged and well... Guy might not be able to do enough damage he also might have the Sound 4 and then the abilities of the sound 4 as well which really just ends up in being a slaughter you have to give the Leaf so much for them to do anything...
He wasn't "technically" a member of the Akatsuki. Kabuto had different motives and was simply working with him because it aided them both.
Kabuto was never true Akatsuki member , just because he was Obitos ally doesn't make him a member, they both just used each other. Also ofc Sage Kabuto wrecks part 1 Naruto characters. Back then the techniques weren't exotic at all and where still basic fire balls, water dragons and earth walls
@@yourtrappedinmygenjutsu If you go to a certain thing 3 forms of the Akatsuki exist.
"Pain's" Akatsuki
Which is the one most know with the dead members and all..
"Taka/TObito's" Which is pretty obvious.
Then Obito's which would I guess include Sage Kabuto and the Edo's maybe Madara can count since he made this whole plan but that's depending on who you ask.
U the Goat Fr . Love listening to the videos when I eat or doing something
Hiruzen was famous for having mastered many jutsus, he was even stated to have mastered all of Konoha's jutsu except for Flying Raijin and Clan specific ones. (although in reality there are probably other exceptions) Against people like Hidan that are significantly weaker than Orochimaru he can just use an ordinary sealing jutsu, since he would not give up Enma during a battle.
Realistically speaking though, if all of these happened in the series during the Konoha Crush Arc, no Akatuski member would be successful in destroying the leaf just because of Jiraiya and Guy's close proximity there. There's a reason why Kishomoto made it that Jiraiya is dead, and Guy is not in the village when Pain attacked the Leaf. Jiraiya was able to activate Sage Mode with Ma and Pa while fighting one Path and three summonings, he can do it with an army of leaf shinobis and ANBU Black Ops to serve as a buffer. Guy can activate the Seventh or even the Eighth Gate whenever he can if he knows that he must. Lol. Not to mention all the Nara, Yamanaka, Akamichi, and Hyuga Clan being there.
Do we fail to realize kisame was weak without his sword and made guy go 7th a fused kisame not going out that way
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I honestly think sasori definitively wins here.
If i recall correctly, the 3rd kazekage is considered noticeably stronger than the 4th kazekage. Orochimaru needed kabuto and a healthy kimimaro’s help to defeat the 4th kazekage without serious injury, and was able to defeat hiruzen without their help, albeit while taking a serious injury.
Sasori was able to defeat the 3rd kazekage without losing any noteworthy puppets and without having access to his strongest puppet other than himself (that being the 3rd kazekage puppet)
Mental game isn’t even a major argument here, as while hiruzen was holding back in his fight with orochimaru, the only reason sasori lost to chiyo and sakura is because he let himself get fatally injured so he could hug his parent-shaped puppets one last time, in addition to the two of them having antidotes for his poison prepared ahead of time.
If hiruzen gets scratched once, he’s as good as dead, as tsunade isn’t in the village, chiyo’s poison knowledge isn’t accessible here, and sakura hasn’t been taught by tsunade yet.
Given the paralytics in his poison, this also means that he can basically save the performance of 100 puppets for destroying the village once hiruzen is dealt with.
Even if he loses every puppet he has in this fight, he’s going to deal critical, probably irreparable damage to the leaf village, will kill hiruzen, will survive the encounter, and will walk out a couple kage-level puppets stronger for it in exchange.
Sakumo Hatacke the White Fang, Kakashi's dad was also considered more impressive than the Sannin (presumably when they were in prime) and Chiyo rivalled him, even thinking that she could kill him, that was why she almost attacked Kakashi, mistaking him for Sakumo. In the war Edo Chiyo also fought a KCM1 clone similar to the one that fought the 3rd Raikage and even dodged a thrown Rasenshuriken.
Chiyo is super-impressive even if she is not in her prime and she could not have even defeated the Hiruko puppet without Sakura's strength. Sakura and Chiyo together would have died if they had not prepared a antidote and if Sasori had not suicided.
Rasa got jumped by orochimaru.
Possible video idea:
What if wicked eyes had become hokage instead of the yellow flash
Dope video! Glad my suggestion made it again. Here are a couple points of contention.
Kakuzu:
Kakuzu was shown pretty much relative to Kakashi in early Shippuden and also got reacted to and beaten by a base naruto. Wihle I don't think wither of these characters are beating kakuzu in a true SBA fight, it kind of shows you the level Kakuzu is on compared to someone like hiruzen who has direct scaling to Orochimaru with arms and two edo Hokage helping him. Hiruzen also has mastery of all natures so his masks would be relatively un useful here. I think between Enma and Hiruzen they could take out the masks fairly easily and then use lightning release on Kakuzu's diamond armour to seal the W. Hiruzen just seems to scale fairly well above Kakuzu while having someone capable of engaging the edo hokage in CQC (enma) helping him AND all of Kakuzu's HAX get countered by Hiruzen's chakra nature versatility.
Deidara:
Similar story with Deidara here. Deidara states that BASE HEBI Sasuke is too fast for him which is why Deidara goes onto his C2 dragon. Of course in this fight with the barrier Deidara will not rlly have a range advantage and Hiruzen being a genius will quickly deduce that lightning style will give him an advantage in the battle. Deidara could do a lot of damage to Enma tho, but Hiruzen would just keep just keep Enma in stick form. Remember Oro with arms should be above hebi sasuke via the Suigetsu statement plus Sasuke waiting until Oro was sick to strike, so again Hiruzen scales way over Deidara and most likely js claps him becus of chakra nature counters and Deidara's lack of range. You could argue Deidara wins with C4 but I don't even think it will get to that point.
Sasori:
Again very similar, Sasori got reacted to by Sakura (but she was blitzed by hebi sasuke who's < healthy Oro) and an ageing Chiyo and Oro WITHOUT arms was also confident in beating Sasori with Kabuto's help (btw Kabuto shouldn't be much of a help at all considering he didn't rlly do anything when Oro was fighting 4 tails naruto). Hiruzen scales to an Oro with arms + edo hokage help. Fire style spam will neg 100 puppets and likely everything except Iron sand. If you argue iron sand scales above Sasori's own movement it could strengthen Sasori's argument but he still has to react with his fingers to move the sand. Hiruzen with Enma could just split up Kakuzu and the 3rd kazekage and should both have the speed to dodge any poison. I don't see Sasori having any chance at all here at all. Enma could die to poison but srsly what does Sasori do against Earth and Fire style.
Kisame:
I actually think the opposite of you, because of the barrier I see Kisame going into water dome immediately which instantly Negs Hiruzen and Enma. Even if you say that's head canony the fight would progress similarly to what you said with Kisame coming out on top. Where my main contention is, is with the aftermath of the Hiruzen fight. Itachi basically tells Kisame in p1 not to overdo it against Kakashi and Kisame was very confident against Kakashi. Not to mention p1 Kakashi really scales nowhere of relevance. Base Jiriaya and Base Guy should also be pretty useless as Base guy is just relative to Kakashi and base jiriya got sent flying by a kick from base guy. If you are using P1 Kisame only then things are different because he also got sent flying by a kick from guy (offguarded)BUT since you brought up ultimate water shark bomb jutsu + waterdome I'm assuming this is using Shippuden knowledge and forms and Kisame at the waterfall when not offguarded easily dismisses a dynamic entry from guy not to mention a 30% clone with Samehada easily puts guy on the backfoot. Apart from that Kisame should also be able to flood the village and do similar damage to what you said Deidara would do if not more. He will have to retreat when 7th gate Guy comes out most likely but by then he will have destroyed pretty much all of the village which I think would be enough for a double clear by your criteria.
Itachi:
Itachi probably beats Hiruzen yes but not likely without some form of MS jutsu since any base sharingan genjutsu would just get countered by rule of 2 (enma would snap him out). At that point its like, how long can he really keep MS + Susaano active against the whole village without any significant AOE jutsu to note. Considering he fleed against Jiriya and had to used life prolonging meds just to sustain a couple MS jutsu's against hebi sasuke, I think he retreats after taking out like Kakashi and Jiriya. He also wouldn't beat Guy before he transforms into Gates since Guy has a special way of combatting sharingan users and Itachi hasn't been shown to be able to use Tsukoyomi with his finger (again any base sharingan genjutsu would be useless because someone would just snap guy out of it). Oh and ofc once guy goes 7 + gates is over real quick.
TLDR: Underrating Hiruzen heavily, overrating Itachi and slightly underrating Kisame
To refute some of your points, mainly your TLDR:
I do agree Hiruzen is underrated heavily. I think you're downplaying part 1 Kakashi relative to Kisame and while you downplay Base Guy you overrate him in the gates. We have no idea if he can even open the 7th Gate at this time and we clearly know that Guy (like Kakashi) gets stronger over the series and through the war and I'm even talking in base too. 7th Gate Guy goes from washing Kisame very easily (good feat no doubt) to then pushing Edo Madara inside a susano'o back to then actually pushing back Six Paths Madara. There's a clear power progression especially in the last two.
You're heavily underrating base or part 1 Jiraiya who is just verbatim an equal to Orochimaru. Granted, Sannin in general are all relative for the most part even in their evolved/"beyond" Sannin forms (meaning their amps so Strength of 100 Seal, Sage Mode, 8-headed Hydra form which all are stated to go beyond their title as a Sannin). Me personally, I don't believe Kisame has even reached that Sannin level and is just below that tier. Even is water dome kinda gets negged by summonings pretty easily. Hell, All Bee needed to do to break out of the dome has transform into Gyuki, which Gyuki even implies.
All in all, I do agree that Pain & Obito would most likely win. I think you're downplaying Itachi although in character I could just see Hiruzen letting Itachi win and entrusting Itachi like he had done but Kisame falls short given the fact that Hiruzen & Orochimaru were fairly equal and after Orochimaru's mental nerf wore off and Hiruzen's was wavering the entire battle. Hiruzen I agree is a monster and easy scaling means he bodies most of the Akatsuki. Even if we go by the premise (which is not only plausible but like actually implied) that the Kage kept growing in power after his death, it is clear even in a weakened body (although without the stamina issues so it kinda equals out) Hiruzen is a cut above the 5 Kage in particular Ay & Onoki who we know were Kage's in part 1 as Gaara became the Kazekage after the time-skip and Mei became Mizukage somewhere around their too
@@emssasukeisunderrated7946
Some counter arguments:
First some ground rules. As I stated before, I am assuming P2 Forms for the Akatsuki because NH uses P2 feats and scaling in this video. However, to indulge you I will try to provide my reasoning for p1 forms aswell.
P1 Kakashi really shouldn't be a threat to Kisame at all. In Shippuden, a 30% Kisame clone puts Guy on the back foot and forces him to open the 6th gate (when Guy's base is relative to Kakashi). Even using P1 Knowledge only, Kakashi shouldn't be much of a threat considering Base kisame while arguably holding back (Itachi tells him not to overdo things at the start) puts Asuma on the backfoot with just the tip of his sword and blitzes him with a Samehada strike. Considering Asuma's databook statements and their performance in Konoha Crush, Kakashi shouldn't be far off from Asuma in strength. Kisame is also confident in taking down Guy, Asuma and Kurenai at once as he states they are lucky he has to leave and Itachi also seems to agree calling the situation tempting for Kisame. Even if you assume he and Kakashi are relative in speed, their strength difference, stamina and ninjutsu are on different planes. Ontop of that, a few sword clashes and Kakashi would be drained to like 0 chakra. Considering base early shippuden Naruto has 4x chakra than Shippuden Kakashi and Samehada drained enough chakra in seconds from WA bee to drop him to his knees at the waterfall, Kisame should just neg Kakashi if he takes things remotely seriously.
With Jiriya things get messy if you use p1 knowledge only as Kisame did flee from Jiriya in P1 but he could just be downplaying himself or in fear of Jiriya's reputation. Its also worth noting Kisame is confident in threatening Itachi's life when he first joined the Akatsuki and then Itachi went on to neg Orochimaru who is also a Sannin. For some further supporting evidence, consider that Kisame in base has chakra on the levels of a bijuu and Jiriya got mortally wounded by 3 tails naruto. Yes he was offguarded but being off-guard doesn't lower your physical durability unless you use chakra defences like the Raikage. This would also be a good time to add that P1 Kakashi gets fear haxed by Oro at the chunin exams which should kind of tell you he's nowhere near Sannin level in p1 and thus not a threat to Kisame. Now, if you use P2 Knowledge its just overkill. Base Kisame is able to react effortlessly to V1 Killer Bee and his jutsu is as fast as a 7th gate Guy hirudora. Base Bee then goes on to fight on par with KCM Naruto in the early war who is stated "a lot stronger" than SMN who is stated to have surpassed Jiriya. There's other ways to scale P2 Kisame above Jiriya aswell like how Base Bee is relative to V1 Ay who naruto states can keep up with KCM in CQC. SO TLDR: no P1 Kakashi and Guy without gates shouldn't be a problem for Kisame and neither should Jiriya, unless you use p1 knowledge only, which even then Kisame has some solid arguments in his favour.
Also, why would waterdome get negged by summoning? Gyuki thinks a bijuu bomb would destroy the area initially but then we find out the dome absorbs chakra and once Gyuki is actually in the dome he thinks the best strategy is to retreat using the smoke jutsu.
In terms of itachi downplay I disagree. I think Hiruzen letting itachi win isn't necessarily out of the question but is pretty headcanony and if he knew itachi was going to start actually trying to incapacitate kakashi, Jiriya, Guy etc then he obviously wouldn't let itachi win. And as far as the fight itself itachi just has 0 stamina. He definitely has a chance of winning and can neg Enma but Hiruzen has the firepower to definitely force MS out of itachi considering Itachi used it against Jiriya and Kakashi. So if/once itachi wins against Hiruzen its as I said he has to go through a bunch of high tier shinobi with waning stamina.
I also definitely don't think old hiruzen was over the 5 kage from the summit/war at all. His strongest Kage statement was in reference to the P1 time period and its stated that Ay trains aswell as the fact that Gaara also develops exponentially from start of shippuden to 5KS, so that statement doesn't really apply.
Lastly with the guy stuff yeah he definitely gets stronger form early P1 to the war but I would argue that simple gate scaling gets him to competitive levels with Itachi and really anyone else in the Akatsuki pretty quickly even in P1. First consider in base he's relative to Kakashi and that the gates are exponential increases in power. Now consider the jump in the war from Base to 7th gate which takes Guy from early WA Kakashi level to being able to somewhat briefly keep up with one eyed Juubidara, that's a huge huuuge jump. Assuming a similar relative multiplier for P1, IMO an exponential increase above Base Kakashi basically puts him above everyone in the Akatsuki except maybe Obito. Also, its unclear how much more of an increase 8th gate is over 7th but might Dai goes from fodder genin level to Seven swordsman level using the 8th gate and I would wager p1 adult BASE guy is exponentially stronger than base might dai which may make up for the lack of extra gate in terms of multipliers (or in simpler terms the gap between Base Dai and Base Guy is equal to or greater than the difference between 7th Gate Guy and One eye Juubidara). Basically, the gates are broken and Itachi has no answer for Hirudora.
Awesome to see your views and growth is going way up your videos are fire you deserve the numbers fr
Man, my boy Hidan always suffering in these match ups. 🤣
Well hidan honestly does not get good scaling and is also not help on the fact he was in Shippuden early on
You’re always overestimating itachi knowing itachi he’s gonna lose chakra quickly
Didint He Mentions That In This What If It Was Healthy Itachi?
@@ezequielinsaurralde5058 healthy Itachi still can’t use His Mangekyou ability back to back and spam Sussano abilities
Wow fresh naruto theories, sunbed
This is the biggest hiruzen low ball I’ve ever heard
What do you mean “lastly there’s pain”? What about Konan, Zetsu and Tobi?
An underrated stamina feat for Hiruzen is being able to maintain the reaper death seal on Orochimaru, while on the verge of death and mortally wounded, for over an hour
Hmm new review person 🤔 interesting concept can he deliver 🤔 😉 👀
Suggestion: The Previous Five Kage w. Sasuke and Boruto as back-up vs Momoshiki and Kinshiki
this probably doesn't change much but i think that you overlooking the fact that hiruzen can use every jutsu in the leaf at the time (except keki genkai). we saw him use the inuzuka clan's hidden technique when tobirama put him under the bringer of darkness genjutsu so he should have access to jutsu like partial expansion and shadow paralysis even if its to limited capacity
I feel you're seriously underestimating both Hiruzen and Jiraiya.
Obito aside, I think the only Akatsuki that could clear this mission is Pain thanks to the low intel on him.
Deidara has absolutely no chance on clearing everything. I don't think he has a real chance against Hiruzen, but even if he somehow manages to beat Hiruzen, he's not beating Jiraiya. I don't think he has a chance against Jiraiya at 100%, but I'm quite confident he can't beat Jiraiya after fighting Hiruzen. And lets not even get into Guy and the gates.
Itachi might be the most interesting case, but I think Hiruzen would prove to be incredibly tough for him. Hiruzen knows about Itachi's abilities more than pretty much anyone that's alive at that point, and I'm pretty sure he has some nice experience fighting genjutsu and even especifically sharingan. Now, Itachi is a monster and Hiruzen is old, so he might clear Hiruzen. But that's a tough thing to do in its own, and now you have a pretty much fresh Jiraiya waiting, who also seems to be pretty good against genjutsu guys. There's a reason Akatsuki was trying to avoid Jiraiya and the safest place for Naruto was near Jiraiya. Jiraiya vs Itachi might be an interesting debate in its own, but I think Jiraiya most definitely wins against an Itachi who just fought Hiruzen.
Can you talk about earlier Naruto and Sasuke and when they surpass Hiruzen? Obviously Perfect Sage Naruto is the first form that clearly surpasses Hiruzen (most likely, depending on how strong you think prime Hiruzen was), but what about slightly earlier? And which V2 cloak transformation? Obviously 6 is too much, but could Hiruzen take out the 5-tailed transformation? Also Hebi Sasuke vs Hiruzen is interesting… how would he do against CM2 Sasuke? I know he narrowly beat Deidara by avoiding his C0, and you claim here that Deidara would defeat Hiruzen, but obviously you can’t just use the transitive property in many Naruto fights. Also what about 5-kage summit sasuke? Hiruzen is clearly superior to Danzo both narratively and by fears and statements; he wouldn’t get beaten as easily. He was also in theory stated to be the strongest living Kage even in his old age (although you could say this was retconned; the Edo Tensei feats arguably mean it wasn’t retconned). Sasuke was heavily struggling and arguably outright completely losing against the Raikage (as in A would have straight up killed him with his Guillotine Drop if Gaara hadn’t stopped it, albeit at the cost of one of his legs getting burned as well). His Susanoo was getting melted by mei, and he would’ve been straight up one-shot atomized by Ohnoki’s particle style. Sasuke would have died many times without help from team Taka and Obito. Would prime Hiruzen put up a good fight or even win against full stamina full power five kage summit sasuke?
Wait what do you mean Retconned?
Video suggestion. Pain vs kumogakure.
Actually can each ninja village other than the leaf survive a pain style invasion?
I subbed 😁 good video
Wow… Biggest takeaway is that for each Akatsuki member, it boils down to can they defeat multiple gates Might Guy!
I personally feel you downplay Hiruzen’s IQ and battle IQ, Hiruzen was known as the Professor he was proficient in each chakra nature, he has literal decades of experience(Kakuzu does too, however Kakashi and shikamaru were able to figure his abilities out pretty easy) King Enma his summon isn’t just a staff he’s capable of independent thought and actions. During the fight with Orochimaru, Hiruzen wasn’t actively trying to kill Orochimaru he didn’t wanna fight his favorite student his head wasn’t in the game Enma was literally like “Hiruzen what the fuck are you doing bro this mans is a menace and wants you dead”on top of that while impaled with a sword he stood his ground trying to seal Orochimaru’s soul. His hesitation to harm Orochimaru prevented him from winning. As the strongest kage in part 1 I stand by my opinion that Hiruzen wins against most of the Akatsuki except for Pain and Itachi given the circumstances of the fight being within the barrier.
I think you missed the fact that hiruzen has mastered all 5 Chakra nature's, so he should be able to use lightning style to counter deidaras explosives. Other than that seems good
This dude literally downplayed Hiruzen, no counters or mind game from Hiruzen like bruh he's considered one of the smartest characters in the show
The down play is crazy he clearly out performed both the edo kage and could of sealed orochimaru completely if he didnt have the ability to move the sword with his tongue so he smokes everyone up to itachi obito pain
Yeah but orochimaru isn't a 1 shot kill type... Most of the akatsuki are one shots, they can end the battle quicker, plus the kage were so weak, I think kisame could 1v1 that version of 2nd hokage, plus the seal is a suicide move
The Edo Kage were at 30% at best. Not a great feat. Old Hiruzen is equal to Pain Arc Kakashi at best.
@@jms7265 30 % are u dumb orochimaru woudnt summon them so weak it is imperfect but 30% is wrong theres no proof to ur claim especially because heruzen knew tobirama skills and never pointed out he was 30 % of his strength
@@josephclements6693 Why didn't Tobirama use FTG or Tandem Paper Bombs why didn't Hashirama use Sage mode or True Several Thousand Hands because they were severely Nerfed I think 30% is to much I would say 10%
@@SRVaris 😂😂😂😂ppl like u are y the debate community is clowned on
I’ve never seen someone underestimate hiruzen so much.
Great video bro
how u gonna say hiruzen is superior to kakashi and sakura in shippuden.. sakura got hit once cause tsunade specifically trained her not to get tagged along w chiyo knowing his moves.
And Hiruzen trained that same Tsunade. Plus Tsunade got tagged multiple times By Orochimaru without arms.
No way you're trying to say Sakura is above Hiruzen here
@@OK-yy6qz tf are on about. sakura claps hiruzens old ass. sakura is literally far more impressive than tsunade and was her equal throughout shippuden and was stronger than her during the war arc…. ur whole hiruzen trained tsunade means literally nothing?
@@OK-yy6qz and that was a mentally nerfed tsunade who hadn’t fought in like a decade what 😭 and s
Hiruzens staff tore through the god tree but not kakuzu?
Little pieces of the god tree it did it a tree not like he did real damage to a big portion of it and kakuzu slams low diff
Omg this was so informative and fun
Can’t wait to see how you deliver your opinion
*All Akatsuki Members except Hidan and Zetsu would have no issue taking on Old Hiruzen. Old Hiruzen was implied weaker than all Part 1 Sannin. Old Hiruzen would get Crushed by the Gaara who saved his Village from Deidara. When they tell you Hiruzen gotten weka in Age ,they aren't Kidding. Konan gives Hiruzen a 50/50 fight that could go either way. Every other members not named Hidam and Zetsu Defeat Hiruzen no problem.*
Hiruzen is down played in this video. Nobody is beating him except Kisime, itachi, and pain.
What about tobi
Hidan just kinda loses to everybody. If only he had the ability to actually draw blood on any of the heavy hitters he might actually stand a semblance of a chance once his immortality is figured out but even then it's likely he gets wrecked
Six Paths God of Death Hidan tho kinda just bodies.
@@zelz3011 I think it speaks more of jashin than hidan himself. Since that's what gives him his immortality in the first place.
@@booleah6357 Well Hidan has that Immortality he just kinda sucks Jashin probably has a way better healing factor or might deadass just be immortal and need to be sealed or he just heals so much he's seen as immortal and even if you kill him might have some Karma if you know what I mean Isshiki might still run their fade but still they probably quite dangerous...
@@zelz3011 I remember hearing a theory somewhere though I don't remember where that jashin was an otsutsuki. If that held any water I'd guess he'd be up there with kaguya round about
Hidan can probably take most of the village except for guy and hiruzen unless he gets team up then he just dies
A part of me hates how monotone you are but at the same time I like it like I can’t decide 😂
Buy overall great video
I would point out that hiruzen is extremely smart and has dealt directly with war against the village that deidera is from likely knows or could deduce the lightning style weakness that deidera has. Seeing as hiruzen has mastered all of the chakra releases, he would likely be able to nullify deidera and won the fight.
This is nice
All im finna say is…. Orochimaru’s the most versatile person in the series. So not many would do as well as he did
So in terms of situation and styles, I think your assessment of this is fairly accurate. But given the fact we know of mental nerfs and amps, series lore and power scaling, I don't agree with many of the win conditions given the fact Hiruzen is regarded as the strongest of the 5 Kage no matter if it was his prime or at old age. Sure, the battle seen in early Naruto while it wasn't as grandiose as we see close to the war arc, we know that Hiruzen is at a level stronger than the Kage. The fact that Orochimaru himself is around there level too (as well as the other Sannin says as much).
With that being said, no one in the Akatsuki weaker than Orochimaru loses to Hiruzen in a 1v1. It's just blatant as they are relative in power during part 1 with both having different type of nerfs but Hiruzen clearly having the bigger mental nerf as well as physical (to be blunt, it's only STAMINA in terms of prolonging a fight. We know this cause Monkey King Enma even asks why Hiruzen is stalling).
So in terms of the 1v1's, Hiruzen is washing Hidan, Konan (well she can even have prep time), Deidara, Sasori, Kakazu with relative ease. Kisame, having a much more clear scaling to the Sannin (but still below them) would put up a legit fight but would lose also. We already know about Orochimaru then it leaves Pain/Nagato, Obito and Itachi. Now with all 3, although he most likely loses it's not a total beatdown and considering Hiruzen's battle prodigious talent, able to deduce yin-yang release in the truth seeker orb after seeing it once or knowing the hand seals from the reaper death seal after only seeing it once, he'd know the counter to their abilities and would be mental amped except against Itachi
I think in character against Itachi he may even concede to losing assuming him and Itachi are on the same wavelength as he knows Itachi is always doing everything for the sake of Konoha and thinks like a Hokage also. The only thing I can concede is that assuming someone like Jiraiya doesn't get there in time during the Konoha crush arc, Deidara probably destroying the whole village and would even go low to do that to create a diversion while losing his fight against Hiruzen.
All in all, only 2 get both win conditions in Pain/Nagato and Obito although if Jiraiya is there in time for either and is able to summon Ma & Pa, then saving the village (say against Obito) or defeating the opponent (in Pain) could change it but most likely both clear. Itachi would clear too but it's more in my opinion in character for Hiruzen to allow it and trust Itachi like he had been doing. Everyone else CANNOT BEAT HIRUZEN IN A 1V1. And only Deidara is possibly destroying the village (Sasori potentially could but I doubt it)
Did you just say Kisame SCALES TO FUCKING SANIN??? AND ARE BENEATH THEM!??? ROFLLLLLLLLLL YOURE TROLLING, Also Obito having orbs doesnt make sense, but he gets no diffed by Obito in any form, You're lowballing Kisame, extremely, I also think Deidara *can* easily win.
Disliking because he completely forgot Konan lol
Also Tobi And Zetsu/BlackZetsu , But It Dosent Really Matters
Why do I feel like hidan vs hiruzen would end up being one of those moments where the villain would get lucky and still win even though he shouldn't have
@Justin Arzola I know logically hidan would not win but I was referring to one of those moments when the villain should not win but somehow wins anyway because of luck on their side some heroes also have moments like that
Maybe a dumb question but what about Konan?
Thank You!!!!!!
Hiruzen had to fight the 1st and 2nd Hokage while they were Edo, then Orochimaru after when he didn't really even want to fight him. Hashirama at the time was the strongest Character in Naruto and Tobirama was definitely up there, them being under Edo makes them even more dangerous and Hiruzen handling them even more of a statement, I understand they weren't at full power but Hashirama still had Wood Release and Tobirama could still create massive bodies of water, this alone gives Hiruzen more odds to win against more Akatsuki members imo, idk if he could beat them all, but he definitely has higher odds imo
Can you do a what if Sakura left with Sasuke?
CM2 Sakura.
She would be significantly weaker and less helpful without her healing. Gara’s bother would die without her healing him. Her not knowing any medical would snowball until eventually prematurely ending the show.
@@seanbaby1060 Kabuto exists...
Oh I guess the show might end early although maybe maybe not...
@@zelz3011 if you want I can break down each arc and talk about what logically would happen
@@seanbaby1060 That could be interesting but we factoring in Kabuto?
So do you just forget about Guy and his inner gates? His 7th gate could defeat Kisame and his 8th gate could push 6 paths madara to death. Youre video truly isn't valid
Hiruzen literally fought the first and second hokage while also hesitating on beating his student
So Everyone above kisame wins and Deidara c0 basically completed both wins conditions
Itachi is gonna lose his Chakra very quickly so he definitely isn't clearing.
Itachi is one shotting
Wow konan erasure much :o
why no konan?
How do you make these bro ?
wym?
@@New_Horizons how do you make the vids
very interesting. before watching the video id say the ones who beat that hiruzen is
itachi, pain, kisame, kakuzu, and depending on how techincal sasori. he couldnt beat 100 puppets in the barriers limits but in the open hiruzen could prob win. similar situation with diedara. hiruzen prob loses in the barrier on a roof but wins in the open
Good
Good | Always | Vid | As
By newest.
Always | As | Vid | Good
Oh I'm supposed to read it in reverse to get the.
Good | Vid | As | Always
How many gates does war arc guy need to beat each Akatsuki member? (This might not work well with Obito's abilities, if guy opens enough gates Obito can just disappear)
Konan: Am I a joke to you?
Itachi Crush Plan to MF Sasuke...
Damn I kinda want that Monkey Stick...
Damn of course it's that one to do it.
Watch the clap although in the end they would escape so no way do they fail all the stuff...
Both Guy and Kisame might be weaker in part 1 although all the back up still leads to a similar conclusion likely...
Dang they doing really well but it depends on the situation I guess I think well they might have more stamina they won't be able to do it forever but yeah medics and just the fact that it doesn't overly matter they play it strategic and the amount of destruction caused from the fodder that can't be dealt with by the big guns end up creating a really bad situation for the leaf.
Nice...
I notice you don't take into account strength gains during the series. Part 1 Gai in the 7th gate is weaker than his war arc self in base even Kakashi Post Pain arc is stronger than his part 1 self.
Also Deideria will kill himself against Hurizen also the 3rd has lighting relase aswell.
Than make the same argument for every character. Not only guy. Sasori, pain, Kisame...
PS: I have a duck video, a chicken video, a video where i am begging for money on Twitter... Also a patreon
@@iwanttobeabillionaire1703 yes but they don't grow in strength only weaken.
Pain was fatigued when fighting Naruto and was slowly dying after his fight with Jiraiya.
Sasori wanted to die that day
Kisame without his sword only operates at 50 to 60% percent efficiency. So bassicly with Sameahada he wouldn't have lost to Guy on that island.
@@kingced741 You think that making Kisame twice as strong it's enough to beat 7th gate guy. LMFAO anything short than 10 times stronger it's annihilated by 7. Stop with your bullshit. So everything that you said it's just random bs out of your a...
PS: I have a duck video, a chicken video, a video where i am begging for money on Twitter... Also a patreon
@@iwanttobeabillionaire1703 bro Guy was struggling during that fight. So add Kisame with his sword that Gives regen,Stamina buffs and more raw power his Tailess tailed beast mode and a movable lake it's over.
still a high difficulty fight for him don't get me wrong but Guy can't hold his produce enough Asakujakus to get rid of the chakra enhanced water.
@@kingced741 In 7th gate literally one punched. He was struggling in 6th and in 7 guy is 87.5x stronger than base compared to 6 75. If samehada doesn't give a x10 don't even talk to me.
PS: I have a duck video, a chicken video, a video where i am begging for money on Twitter... Also a patreon
Only akatsuki members i think win are pain/nagato,obito,itachi and possibly kisame if you assume he is as strong as he was in the bee fight in part one
Controversial opinion time: I think Kakuzu does stand a chance against Hiruzen but people will get anal about that instantly
When someone is sealed (like by the totsuka blade), do their soul/consciousness release or also are sealed inside like a soul gem in Elder Scrolls?
I really like the concept here. Personally, I feel putting them all in the barrier isn't really true to how each member would behave in a konoha crush situation. Like deidara and sasori, I feel, would definitely try to use their aoe attacks to punish the leaf village and I haven't gotten to the pain part of the video but he definitely wouldn't need to resort to that either. I think it'd be interesting to hear you think of what each of their strategies would have been
Also did you exclude Konan and zetsu intentionally?
yes
Hiruzen was mentally nerfed for having to face his student. I like to think we didn't get to see Hiruzen at full strength cause of that
Kisame can’t absorb the monkey staff chakra because summoning animals don’t have chakra
yes they have, how do you think he transformed into staff?
Always
I think Sasori might do a bit better considering his poison gas, and that a single scratch from one of his 100 puppets and kage puppets, he might be able to beat the leaf after filling the cube with poison gas
Itachi doesn’t have the attrition or stamina to use the Mangekyou twice and den spam Sussano attacks💀
he used the mangekyo almost 10 times against sasuke the spammed susanoo while fatigued from fighting kisame, fully blind, and dying of a terminal illness. part 1 itachi couldve used dozens of ms jutsu and held the susanoo up longer
How each hokage would do during konaha crush
Hiruzen can push kakzu into the barrier with the money stick a couple times
Good ol' Hiruzen
here’s an interesting fight: the trio that fought edo nagato vs the 5 kage, it might sound one sided initially but edo itachi is a massive issue for the kage, gaara is the only person who can actually stop him from just spamming genjutsu and amaterasu
Trio stomp no diff
Lightning style completely shuts down deidra