Thats what thinking inside the box does to you lol. The box that keeps on giving. I wonder if the shared earth via the din rail connectors and poor filtering in the EVSE is playing a part in those neutral currents as well. Which would be even worse than induced voltages/currents tbh. If they are allowing currents into the earth path it would explain seeing them on both Neutrals. Good find and great video as always.
Thanks for the video Mike, Would have thought it would have been easier to have used the three phase to a local DB. Then done the circuits from there. Without sounding horrible to the trades out there. Possibly done by domestic installers. Again NOT disrespting anyone at all.
@@residualelectricalcould have installed 3 or 6 charging stations if they used 3 phase (unsure how many is running each phase here already) so much a mess on that install when your earth's are a bit hot like that (was the voltage high as well only seen amps here)
Many thanks for the video Mike, Looking at the regs and can't seem to find the part where it says the following is not permitted-" ** my thoughts are SWA cable with two individual circuits inside - ** so long as the grouping factors are taken into account Amoured cable used for earthing ** so long as ZS values and thermal constraints are meet What would be the difference if the charges had been wired in a single metal trunking used as the CPC, and single insulated conduit cables. 2 x Separate CPC installed along with the armoured cable **. Earth leakage will always find an alternative path if you removed the two conductors wouldn't the current just find another path. I agree the work could be completed to a better standard Please keep the videos coming, enjoy the content.
It’s certainly permitted, but selection and erection needs to be justified and they haven’t made a good argument for their method. Thanks for the support on the videos, I wish I had more time on this one to see what’s really going on, I guess if you removed the earths it would leak down the earth of the DB, either that or it’s coming from the chargers, needs a deeper look 👍🏼
Great content Mike. Really enjoyed it. Hope you get the job for the Cat A fit out. Would be good to see that site progress with partial rip out and new fit out.
Rough as guts mate, harder to have installed it that badly than doing it right ! They should be TT’d especially back in 2015. Wouldn’t want the PME Exported to them
So 3.9 amps in the neutral, 3.4 amps in the 2 g/y cables running to the adaptable box, and 0.5 amps in the main earth. Adds up rather well. That could be some sort of inductive coupling, or something more involved. This needs proper investigation.
Interesting about earthing to the earth lug first presumably to protect the cable passing through the distribution board first before it gets terminated in the main earth bar?
Surely the earths to the car chargers being the preferred leakage path for the entire board, points to a high resistance main earth or high resistance sub Db earth.? Bad Ze ? But that is still a pretty high amount of constant earth leakage.
Usually I'm quite sceptical of other electrician's who criticises other electrician's work. But holy fuck mate, you are absolutely right. Whoever did this install had no fucking clue about any of the safety standards. Probably never did an electrical apprenticeship or is licensed.
Yeah I’m not usually one to criticise beyond banter unless it’s dangerous, it’s not great to be honest, I only had 15 minutes to mess around on this circuit but the more time I spent the worse it got!
Maybe should have separated the two phases on the run and TT it to earth, to grounded metal work, around 4 to 10 ohms and put an upfront type S 100ma RCD. Agree with you though about the installation earth fault current seems a bit high! Think this might be to do with aging equipment or old lighting ect.
EV install issues : Surveys poorly completed Being asked to complete EIC , Ohme paperwork ect, and configuring install all for one job! Being expected to knock 3 installs out a day!!!( too much) Customer has no idea about level of work required. Installer feels pressured in their roll to complete the task( very dangerous for fire risk and shock risk if all steps above aren’t completed properly!
Additional problem is I prefer to use a DNO box if there’s space but some DNOs don’t like this. But I also feel various ip68 outside fuse boxes carry risks if the get damaged which doesn’t happen to a DNO protected box
Mad that home made board surely it would cost mor money and time to make that then use like a rotary isolator or something on the lines of that. Unless it was a I've got this on the van job hehe. Good video enjoyed it very much
Considering that is a dual cable I wouldn't be surprised if they got the neutral swapped from the respective phase hot conductor as well. So blue 1 with brown 2 and blue 2 with brown 1. That is pretty sketchy could be worse not much.
I love watching your videos, as an American it gets a little confusing with the way your installs look especially because im not used to looking at iec breakers contractors and such but other that its great content
No split phase here single phase, generally residential is 60A (old) 80A or 100 amps is plenty when using 240v or 3 phase (100A per phase and each phase can be a single 240v circuit, balancing is required)
Hi Mike . That is a rough one . Could have tested the voltage between the disconnected cpcs and earth bar . Could be induced voltage with all the cables sharing the trunking with the energised fuseboard adjacent. Could be an earth rod down there somewhere. Concrete will conduct especially when wet and rebar in it . Resistances are in parallel with each other and will share the voltage/current in proportion to the resistance of the path .
@@residualelectrical the fault running down that redirected TNCS earth fault has to have a better path than the existing Earth so I would look for any bonding to structural steel work or if they’ve used a supplementary earth rod somewhere. All very hazardous ⚠ ( you also need to be sure your neutral csa is suitable and where it’s feed from )
Personally, it does not look like a bad install.I mean its not super duper neat but to be honest it looks allot better than allot of work you'll find here. Plus it does look like he put in quite allot of care in what he did and there is allot of detail that people would not even care about here. Like the box might not be 100% IP rated but hes got his grommets in and stuff. I would instead have taken it in from the bottom tho. But you did give me a few things to think about . And I personally think with a bit of guidance whoever did that job will do well.
I had similar thoughts. I would not call this cowboy on the scale of things. the install is quite neat for an improvised setup, although it's all irrelevant when it is also dangerous. it's easy to become complacent when you've convinced yourself you know what you're doing. He should check out some of the crazy old installs you'll find here in the us..
The current trend for EV Chargers installation has led to a massive increase in Cowboy and Cowgirl jobs leaving everyone at risk
Thats what thinking inside the box does to you lol. The box that keeps on giving. I wonder if the shared earth via the din rail connectors and poor filtering in the EVSE is playing a part in those neutral currents as well. Which would be even worse than induced voltages/currents tbh. If they are allowing currents into the earth path it would explain seeing them on both Neutrals. Good find and great video as always.
Hahah it sure is, great point mark, hopefully I get back there again to mess around!
Thanks for the video Mike, Would have thought it would have been easier to have used the three phase to a local DB. Then done the circuits from there. Without sounding horrible to the trades out there. Possibly done by domestic installers. Again NOT disrespting anyone at all.
I think they wasn’t fully competent for sure! And yes that’s exactly what I would do, 3 phase sub main 👍🏼
@@residualelectricalcould have installed 3 or 6 charging stations if they used 3 phase (unsure how many is running each phase here already) so much a mess on that install when your earth's are a bit hot like that (was the voltage high as well only seen amps here)
Many thanks for the video Mike, Looking at the regs and can't seem to find the part where it says the following is not permitted-" ** my thoughts are
SWA cable with two individual circuits inside - ** so long as the grouping factors are taken into account
Amoured cable used for earthing ** so long as ZS values and thermal constraints are meet
What would be the difference if the charges had been wired in a single metal trunking used as the CPC, and single insulated conduit cables.
2 x Separate CPC installed along with the armoured cable **. Earth leakage will always find an alternative path
if you removed the two conductors wouldn't the
current just find another path.
I agree the work could be completed to a better standard
Please keep the videos coming, enjoy the content.
It’s certainly permitted, but selection and erection needs to be justified and they haven’t made a good argument for their method.
Thanks for the support on the videos, I wish I had more time on this one to see what’s really going on, I guess if you removed the earths it would leak down the earth of the DB, either that or it’s coming from the chargers, needs a deeper look 👍🏼
@@residualelectrical I think the hazards created by this shoddy install doesnt need BS7671 to tell you it could kill someone! 🥶⚡
Great content Mike. Really enjoyed it. Hope you get the job for the Cat A fit out. Would be good to see that site progress with partial rip out and new fit out.
Yeah hopefully we win it!
Rough as guts mate, harder to have installed it that badly than doing it right ! They should be TT’d especially back in 2015. Wouldn’t want the PME Exported to them
Would love to hear feedback from the customer and you get the job to rectify it
Yeah same, we’ll have to wait and see!
So 3.9 amps in the neutral, 3.4 amps in the 2 g/y cables running to the adaptable box, and 0.5 amps in the main earth.
Adds up rather well.
That could be some sort of inductive coupling, or something more involved. This needs proper investigation.
Interesting about earthing to the earth lug first presumably to protect the cable passing through the distribution board first before it gets terminated in the main earth bar?
Surely the earths to the car chargers being the preferred leakage path for the entire board, points to a high resistance main earth or high resistance sub Db earth.? Bad Ze ? But that is still a pretty high amount of constant earth leakage.
Usually I'm quite sceptical of other electrician's who criticises other electrician's work.
But holy fuck mate, you are absolutely right. Whoever did this install had no fucking clue about any of the safety standards.
Probably never did an electrical apprenticeship or is licensed.
He definitely has experience. He just needs guidance.
Yeah I’m not usually one to criticise beyond banter unless it’s dangerous, it’s not great to be honest, I only had 15 minutes to mess around on this circuit but the more time I spent the worse it got!
It's amazing that they haven't had any problems with the EV board considering how old it is👍
Yeah I’m surprised aswell to be honest!
Maybe should have separated the two phases on the run and TT it to earth, to grounded metal work, around 4 to 10 ohms and put an upfront type S 100ma RCD.
Agree with you though about the installation earth fault current seems a bit high! Think this might be to do with aging equipment or old lighting ect.
Obviously with type A RCD protection as a minimum
EV install issues :
Surveys poorly completed
Being asked to complete EIC , Ohme paperwork ect, and configuring install all for one job!
Being expected to knock 3 installs out a day!!!( too much)
Customer has no idea about level of work required.
Installer feels pressured in their roll to complete the task( very dangerous for fire risk and shock risk if all steps above aren’t completed properly!
Additional problem is I prefer to use a DNO box if there’s space but some DNOs don’t like this. But I also feel various ip68 outside fuse boxes carry risks if the get damaged which doesn’t happen to a DNO protected box
Recognise that underground car park and office interior, pretty sure I would have used that charger back when we was based there.... Hatfield right :)
Mad that home made board surely it would cost mor money and time to make that then use like a rotary isolator or something on the lines of that. Unless it was a I've got this on the van job hehe. Good video enjoyed it very much
Definitely mate, they should of just supplied a three phase DB in an outdoor encoslure, must of been done for buttons or they aren’t competent
Considering that is a dual cable I wouldn't be surprised if they got the neutral swapped from the respective phase hot conductor as well. So blue 1 with brown 2 and blue 2 with brown 1. That is pretty sketchy could be worse not much.
I love watching your videos, as an American it gets a little confusing with the way your installs look especially because im not used to looking at iec breakers contractors and such but other that its great content
And y’all’s wire phasing is way different then how we do it over here
No split phase here single phase, generally residential is 60A (old) 80A or 100 amps is plenty when using 240v or 3 phase (100A per phase and each phase can be a single 240v circuit, balancing is required)
Would you do an updated tool bag tour if you’ve changed anything what still works etc?
Got one coming, a lot is the same, a lot has changed!
That’s a Del Roy type job
The horrors that lurk, how could anyone come away from that install thinking "I'm happy with that" ? 🤔
Someone who knows no better!
EV charging in an underground car park could have a really bad outcome with a pi$$ poor installation. Luton airport on steroids.
Yeah it’s not great 🤦🏼♂️
Interesting that the neutral and cpc currents were so similar. 🧐
Indeed, needed more time to look into it but it’s definitely leakage
Some stuff amazes me, it surely would have been a lot easier to just do it all properly 😂😂😂
The amount of effort put into this fuckery amazes me 😂
@@residualelectrical 😂😂😂
Crazy enough nothing in BS7671 has issue with this!
That’s because the big book is for guidance only, utilised by those who now what they’re doing!
love how they put mcbs in and they do absolutely nothing
Literally 😂
Top video as always Mike.. very informative
Out of interest what app were you using to document the issues?
Thanks mate!
It’s called sit audit pro, it’s about £15 but it’s really good and the PDF’s it automatically produces are wicked, not sponsored 👍🏼
@residualcurrent cheers mate I’ll have a look. Does look a really good app
charge master says it all really
Seems like the Lone Ranger passed through 😆😆😆
Yup 🤠😂
Very interesting, thanks.
Did they fit a place to part their horses when they fitted the EV chargers😂
Think they are electric horses mate 😂
Ouch!!
Hi Mike . That is a rough one . Could have tested the voltage between the disconnected cpcs and earth bar .
Could be induced voltage with all the cables sharing the trunking with the energised fuseboard adjacent.
Could be an earth rod down there somewhere.
Concrete will conduct especially when wet and rebar in it .
Resistances are in parallel with each other and will share the voltage/current in proportion to the resistance of the path .
Great points mate, wish I had more time too see the direction of current flow etc, maybe I’ll be able to dig deeper! 👍🏼
@@residualelectrical the fault running down that redirected TNCS earth fault has to have a better path than the existing Earth so I would look for any bonding to structural steel work or if they’ve used a supplementary earth rod somewhere. All very hazardous ⚠ ( you also need to be sure your neutral csa is suitable and where it’s feed from )
Personally, it does not look like a bad install.I mean its not super duper neat but to be honest it looks allot better than allot of work you'll find here. Plus it does look like he put in quite allot of care in what he did and there is allot of detail that people would not even care about here. Like the box might not be 100% IP rated but hes got his grommets in and stuff. I would instead have taken it in from the bottom tho. But you did give me a few things to think about . And I personally think with a bit of guidance whoever did that job will do well.
I had similar thoughts. I would not call this cowboy on the scale of things. the install is quite neat for an improvised setup, although it's all irrelevant when it is also dangerous. it's easy to become complacent when you've convinced yourself you know what you're doing.
He should check out some of the crazy old installs you'll find here in the us..
Interesting issue.
What the app you use to record your assessment and errors?
Site audit pro 👍🏼
@@residualelectrical thank you
I don't do EV but even I can see that's a quality install Mike 😱😂
Very good video.
Thanks!
4 amps is lethal? Wow
Currents between 100-200mA have been proven to be lethal in the right conditions. That's the reason RCD protection is normally rated at 30mA
Anything above 30milli amp can be lethal 300 milli amps is 10x that!
What "were" they thinking ...
Updated it for your Andy 😘
Does anyone know anywhere stocking Boddingtons at a reasonable price only place I can find are charging £80 for 5 drivers
Halfords Advanced EV 1000V Insulated 6 Piece Screwdriver Set. £43 apparently boddingtons but branded Halfords
Yeah I’ve seen only gripe is they’re ph and not pz and don’t have the 4.5 slotted but it might just had to do with
@@scrannefrank6006 only plus point for the Halfords is it's the advanced lifetime guarantee
😮
Promo SM ☝️