đŁBig Bore Time! Winchester Big Bore .357 Magnum VS .44 Magnum
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 27. 04. 2023
- Testing the Winchester Big Bore ammunition in a 10% Clear Ballistics test from 4" revolvers. The .357 Magnum is a 158 gr SJHP rated at 1,460 FPS and the .44 Magnum is a 240 gr SJHP rated at 1,485 FPS. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
- Sport
These ammo companies are putting out junk and charging more and more money for it đ.
Major ammo makers are selling garbage like this and many customers don't know it unless they have a chrono or watch testing like what you're doing. It's at the point that they should be forced by law to either meet a minimum performance or state something like reduced recoil or light load. Those 357s might as well be FMJ and called 38+P+. Thank you for showing the public what's going on with this stuff.
Ehh . Notwithstanding advertising velocity from 8 inch bbls , these are closely in line with Normal Standard Mainstream factory ammo for their bullet weights .
Measured from 4 inch vented test bbls , industry standard calls for 158 .357 @ 1235 fps , and .44 240 @ 1180 fps , and that's close enough to Sam's readings .
Not garbage , just regular old standard , instead of boutique .
With the Henry and Marlin lever rifles in handgun calibers being somewhat popular, it would be interesting to see the ammo rifle performance being tested in the same video as the revolver performance.
Agreed
Agreed.
I bet these perform great in carbines... I ordered a couple boxes last week and I'm going to test them out of my Henry Big Boy Steel 20" & 16"
â@@Drumdude44
I'm saying the. 357 will perform best out of the 16" bbl.
Hi gun Sam. I have both the 357 and 44. Both are 7" Ruger super Blackhawk. And the 44 is the hunter. They are both awsome. I use both for hunting. . I also have a brass big boy 44 Henry. It's brass. It really steps up the load. It's handload a 240 grn Montana bullet works gas checked hard cast. At max load of imr 4227. I shot a doe in Pennsylvania. At around 65 yards. It went in her right shoulder and came out her left rear leg. She went nowhere. And the bullet didn't expand as far as I could tell. And the wound was very bloodshot. I really like both rounds.
Great test, it's annoying when manufacturers test velocity out of an unrealistic barrel length just to advertise unrealistic velocity. They might as well publish carbine velocities. Both rounds were okay. I'm sure out of a carbine they'd perform better. It's nice to see 357 and 44 tests.
Pretty sure my redhawk .44 is 7.5 inches. So that's close to the test barrel. I wonder if that's enough for expansion?
Realistically , these are Hunting rounds , not self defense . In that context , 6 to 7.5 inch bbls are typical for Revolvers
It's annoying when the customer doesn't read the base line ballistic data that's given to them !
Well, realistically speaking, the longer the barrel, the better the powder charge contained in the case burns, then various factors must also be taken into account, such as the rifling of the barrel, the pitch and the conditions it is in, the internal diameter of the muzzle influences Also.
If you canât find a traditional soft point these both seem like decent loads for hunting medium size game, but I wouldnât use either for concealed carry if I had other options
Check out Fiocchi. I know they have them in 44 Mag because I bought them for my brother and I. I love the soft point for woods walking. Jacked soft point, that's what I'm talking about.
@@joeltowle2737 Whats so good about jacked soft points over the other types?
@@jtoker9758 hollow points don't always open up on dangerous things!
These would have to be tested from a carbine next to soft point ammo to see if there is any difference in performance. Other than that, you'd need to use the Joker's revolver for the test.
If i had to guess, the lead is probably cast harder than orher SJHP loads. Probably why there is a bear on the box. The 357 should have been doing 1250 fps or so, and the 44 about the same. They do look like good bear defense loads (8 shot Redhawk 357, anyone?). No doubt they would be interesting from a rifle
The 180g Buffalo Bore you tested had more velocity with a heavier bullet but less penetration. Maybe 158gr is even the better for bear protection.
Nice bear ammo... Would love to see how the Remington .41 Mgnum with the 210 grain Soft Point would compare...
That's ridiculous, over 200 fps less than what's on the box. I just picked up some Big Bore .357 myself, hoping it would perform like .357 used to before it got detuned in the 90s. Now I don't want to chrono it because I'm going to be so disappointed.
Only way to get that old performance is boutique or reloading. Load up with hodgdon lil gun with max book loads and itâs just like the old school stuff
Do it on a hot day.
Yes, its disappointing. Not the video. The marketing hype. Its OK to produce reduced recoil practice or defense loads with appropriate bullets that expand at moderate velocities. Just put the truth on the box.
@@jacobackley502 I think the Remington/UMC 125gn SemiJacketed HP still delivers if it can be found. But yeah, seems only a few boutique loaders have any interest in loading 357 mag to potential. Even Underwood seems to load 357 for reduced recoil, and then market like its full power.
Did you here the part that Sam said they used a 8.5 inch barrel and his barrel was 4 inch barrel.
The disappointment comes grom shooter's that can't pay attrntion yo ALL details instead of just what they want. I hear the same complaint about every caliber. Buy some see what iy will do out of your gun. I know that taked a lot of effort on your part. Or you could whine about it on here. Learn how to reload thrn uou can make them as hot as you want
I think that offers real possibilities as lever gun hunting ammo.
Buffalo Bore forever:).
Buffalo por vida homes
I still remember one .44 Mag I chronographed and it was at 1,100 ft lbs energy from a 4" barrel.
â@@GunSam so in your own opinion is Buffalo bore worth it that's the only exotic ammo want
Pretty much all of the Buffalo Bore Iâve tried is great. I also love their âlow recoilâ loads in my snubbie. All of their rounds are loaded hot (even the low recoil) but you can bet that their hollowpoints will expand.
â@@357SWAGNUM_MAGA_X Orale Vato! SĂmon!!!! That's What I Carry In My Ruger GP100 4" In Northern California When Fishing, Hunting, Or Hiking.
I agree, I just picked up a couple boxes to sight in my Henry .44 Big Boy Steel Carbine. Can't wait. Thanks for this video.
Just bought some of these in .44 mag. Thanks for the test!
Great video. 2 of my favorite calibers!
Wow you did it, pal. Nice job.
The way some of these companies advertise velocities is kinda like when a girl asks how long the barrel of your gun is, and you just add an extra inch or two.
great video Sam
Thanks, another good and interesting video. Always fun to see the heavier rounds hit the steel. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thank you, take care.
...I'm impressed with your DA shooting...
I agree, the bear on the box is a clue and I would not use this for personal protection, but might carry it in the field. Good test.
I need to try this .357 Magnum round from my Rossi Model 92 carbine.
Thanks for the video
Yeah another awesome video
Enjoy watching your videos here in Mill Hall Pennsylvania 30 miles from Penn state university
Is that what we get for today? đ I'm just giving you a little grief about your closing summation - great video as always!
Wait there's more. Call today and I will double your order.
Love the Paul Kersey hoodie
Oh!! I hadn't seen these yet!! I think I might have to get some for the Henry rifles. They might be a force to be reckoned with out of a rifle barrel
This video is over a year old so im behind everyone else's comments here, but i just tried this ammo in 357 Mag and was please with the recoil and accuracy out of my 4.5 bbl single action revolver. I dont understand why everyone is so upset about the velocity difference it clearly states on the box tested thru a 8.5 inch bbl revolver. Four inches in a revolver makes a big difference. Either get a bigger pistol or use a rifle, thats the only way your going to get close the listed velocity. All im concerned with is accuracy and bullet performance thank you for doing very complete test and review
Thanks for testing these! The 357 looks pretty weak, Remington seems to be one of the best factory loaders for 357. With 158gr I got 1380+ fps out of 6â 686 and 1750+ out of a Henry X. The 125gr do over 1550 and 2000 fps.
Not Buffalo Bore territory, bit very solid.
Those look like good woods loads. I agree they are for lever guns or similar.
Paul Kersey Shooting Club. I love It! đ
Love to see the 357 load tested in a 20 lever gun
The hollow point cavities are not large enough for defensive ammo. Animal round.
Great info.
Thanks. I almost bought a box of those in .357!
Thanks for reviewing the ammo, now I won't be buying it. That hoodie is hilarious by the way! đ đ€Ł
Os canos das armas tinham que ser do mesmo tamanho,sĂł falta isso, canal perfeito!
I tested the 44 mag on Easter weekend through my 6 inch S&W model 29-3 and I averaged low to mid 1300âs fps the packaging looks cool, but I was expecting a little more out of my 6 inch barrel, but after seeing they used a barrel two inches longer I see why.
That's still pretty decent. Good info to know as around 150 FPS more indicates very slow powder and not so much velocity inflation.
@@GunSam yeah it is an improvement, speaking of revolver rounds being loaded hotter my father had an old box of Winchester 158 grain jsp full power 357 magnums from the early 90's they had some good recoil to them, they felt way more powerful than what is currently available, if only I still had them to get a velocity reading, ha ha. Have you ever tested Remington UMC 44 mag 180 grain jsp? The box I have has a rated velocity of 1610 fps, do you think I'll see 1600+ fps out of my 6 inch barrel?
I've been noticing norma with thermomelitical points really exaggerating the Velocities
That was supposed to say the monolithic hollow points
Super great video and bear or not super great cartridgesâŠ
Thank you
Thanks for the review I'll stick with my wide flat nose hard casts for my 357 and 10mm for woods defense. I would be curious if a longer barrel like my 8 3/8 460s&w pushes them fast enough to expand or if you have to go rifle/carbine length
They shouldnât call those hollowpoints. If they were marketed as lead soft points Iâd say those were pretty great rounds.
Good info, perfect for my sp101, Sam idea for show, point shooting or shooting from the draw, in a defensive action, no time to aim.....I think it would be a winner..Your my fav gun chan, take care, stay safe & God bless....
Every time I shoot from when I state 12 yards, I already do this. I am not aiming but rather just using muscle memory.
@@GunSam OK.
Juts bought this ammo.
Will test it.
I have a Ruger GP100 5 inch barrel which should bring that velocity closer to what they claim as they use 6 inch revolver to test not 4.
Recently, I was looking a various 44 mag ammo that would have a tough bullet for lever action rifle velocities. On Winchester's website they only list the 240gr Super X under "rifle ammo" and show ballistics of 1760 fps for a muzzle velocity, versus the 1180 fps velocity for the same round from the handgun section, where they have 5 other 44 mag offerings. I don't know where they come up with the 1485 fps for the Big Bore round tested here, on face value that would be quite a hot round from a handgun and would certainly fly from a 20" barrel carbine, but at the time I was suspicious of the bullet integrity at rifle velocities. I thought perhaps the figures quoted were a typo from another round, given the performance in this test, but the energy figures for bullet weight and velocity at least match up. Based on the figures recorded here, it seems to be pretty much the normal 1180 fps 240 gr loading, like their White Box and Super X products.
Will you also be testing the Winchester Big Bore 10mm Auto and .45 Colt ammunition?
Humdrum velocities for 4" revolvers and poor expansion. I agree that they must be intended for rifles. Lever actions in revolver calibers make a great choice in jurisdictions where AR's are banned. Great brush guns for deer.
357 out of raging Hunter 6,3/4 barrel, thumps pretty hard, accurate too, out to 50 yrds
Big Ohio Whitetails no problem,Best~regards
In small letters on the box is says the numbers are from a 8.75 inch barrel . So yea basically hand cannons and lever guns .
I stand corrected, maybe good for the woods walk pistol.
Ruger security six!
That 357 load might be good for the lcrx 357 3 inch.
Id like to know the energy difference between the two .. that 44 seems to be hitting like a truck
Well, that was my question how would they do out of my lever gun? I think this test shows they would do great.
Thatâs a good point. You would probably see significantly more expansion out of a 16 inch or higher barrel.
They would probably work through my Henry rifle.
Minute 6 i notice 357 mag shot at tree truck and 44 magnum shot way past tree truck are you adjusting camera angles or shooting from closer distances?
Were those hard-cast lead bullets?
Its interesting because the original. 357 158 grain was over 1500fps, and they found over time a need to reduce the commercial use due to small frame revolver usage and damage it was causing to them. So now we have lower velocity/Pressure loads to make up for the weak link in the consumer chain.
Yes but the original barrel length was 8 and 3/8". When you figure in a 4" barrel that's about 1,250 FPS 158 gr. The standard 158 gr at 1,250 FPS would be 1,500 FPS in an 8 and 3/8" barrel. Buffalo Bore does make a 158 gr load that does 1,500 FPS in my 4" barrel but it's super hot.
@GunSam Yep, i bought some Underwood 180 grain Flat nose Black cherry, On news years day, they had a one day promotional offer of 30% off. I bought 4 boxes. dont even feel guilty about it. Using those in my Rossi carbine, 20" ss.
Great video! Have you tested the Superx .357 158gr? Apologies if i missed it. Its one of the only .357 158gr loads on the shelf here for a whopping $70 for 50.
I don't think I have. I may have to at some point, I have seen them. They aren't too bad of a price for 50 now days considering 20 rounds of .357 Mag is often $35 at generic stores like Dunham's
@@GunSam if you can't grab a box local just let me know and I can send them.
đđđŻ đ€ the price would be the factor on weather I would buy it.
A pair of Henrys a 357 and a 44 with case hardened receiver. đđ
...I can hear you staging the trigger - I practice that daily...
Ok, so they clearly tested this ammo with a barrel length that of the revolver the Joker shot Batman's plane down with đ
less moving parts with single action = more accurate shooting SIGs I have tried all double action vs all single action , I can get close , but single action is always tighter & faster , same gun same ammo ... SIGs have great double action triggets . With a common revolver trigger ... single action is just more accurate .
It's not more accurate for me. Double action makes me have forced extra grip which prevents fliers.
340 pd 125 gr full power sjhp when?
They probably used slower burning powder. My problem is the price. I baught a box of the .44 magnum at Cabelas. $46 for 20 rounds. That is exlensive. If anything it convinced me I need to reload .44 magnum. Most rounds I see at the store are an anemic 1200 fps and they are usually around $30-35 for a box of fifty. This much more money for a bit more powder, and the bullet is nothing special is sort of a waste of money. I can see it as a bear defense load though. But there is better stuff out there in this price range.
Appreciate the test & demonstration. Not very impressed. Not a complete failure.
Thanks for watching!
Maybe a good carbine load.
That is really disappointing in performance. Over penetration and no expansion with lower velocity than specified. I agree maybe bear medicine but no larger than Black Bear.
Hard cast nose deformation bullets do not penetrate well.
Hey Sam off subject. But what are your thoughts on lcr/lcrx.. firing/cam system? Is it just as good. Do you see any possible long-term problems. Is user friendly with repairs? Thanks
The LCR trigger is great, better than S&W in a lot of regards. I don't know a ton about the LCR system, but if it's anything like the GP100 and SP101 which I have taken apart (I have had the LCR apart to know it's similar) than it is very user friendly as everything just sits in the trigger group. For instance, if you needed a transfer bar replaced, it's generally one screw and detaching the lower frame, popping it out and replacing etc. Don't know much about long term use, but I can't imagine any long term issues other than transfer bar wear.
@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ thanks for the reply. Didn't know if they changed a lot for that trigger pull. But ill have to rent one out
I have one centerfire and one rimfire LCR. The centerfire is a great trigger, the rimfire is pretty bad. I think the cam system has it's limitations once it gets to a heavy rimfire hammer spring. So the LCR in the 2" centerfire snubs is way smoother than a S&W, but a S&W rimfire would be a tad smoother than the LCR.
Thank you for making these video's your ammo testing saves us money, glad i didnt buy this bullđ© in 357magnum, started too , but changed my mind and got some 155 grain 40SW silvertips
Ballistics by the Inch has Federal 158 gr .357 averaging 1246fps from a 4" 686, and Federal 240 gr .44 magnum at 1094 from a 4" S&W 629. So, this ammo is a pinch slower in .357 but a touch faster in .44 magnum (and we all know the caveat about different chronographs in different elevations and weather conditions). I had higher hopes for this ammo, but, alas, looks like maybe good field or hunting ammo but not something to use at a bad guy in town, maybe. That's a hard bill to fill anyway in .44 magnum, but there are so many better .357 self-defense loads out there.
I'm curious - I have a LOT of osteo arthritis in my hands, especially in the base of my shooting hand thumb (several subluxations). Do you have any hints for shooting hard-kicking guns with the least suffering for the (admittedly aging) shooter? I really enjoy my 3" .44 629 but she is an almost unbearable beast these days.
My issue is rheumatoid arthritis and I'm only 43, so our issues are a bit different. But, the main real hints are a couple things I can think of; don't fight the recoil during the times you really don't have to, only squeeze the grip at the moment of firing, and most important - that grip on my .44 is an X-frame Hogue tamer meant for the .460 & .500 Magnum, but they fit K, L, N and Z (Governor) frames just fine albeit single action hammer cocking sometimes takes more force as the grip protrudes up a hair - get that grip, it's much better than stock grips.
@@GunSam Thanks, man!
Those look like hks speed loaders. I have some of those, but I like the safariland ones a lot better because they are a lot quicker. You don't have to turn the knob and you basically just push the rounds in. Any reason you like the hks ones better?
I don't understand your comment as you assumed I like HKS better. I like Safariland better, I use a comp 3 usually with my 686. I used an HKS here because the only one I have for the .44 is an HKS so I wanted to keep both revolver setups as fair as possible for the video.
@@GunSam oh ok. That makes sense.
The hollows are shallow because itâs supposed to be more for bear country. Better chance busting through a skull
Thanks for testing these rounds. You're right theyre are bear đ» rounds. Maybe an angry elk who wont move out of the way in your path. â ïžđ©đ±đŻđșđČđđșđŠđ±đ»đŒđ”ïžđźđșđčđș
Good bear country loads!
My guess is that these may be more suited for a rifle.
8 inch Colt Python 125gr, 158gr, and 180gr full power sjhp when?
When you buy him one LOL
@@357SWAGNUM_MAGA_X
Let's get a raffle going!!!
They would make good hunting rounds but not carry rounds
Single action is absolutely more accurateâŠâŠfor all the folks who donât practice shooting double action. đ
Shooting double action really good is a learned skill. Love me some double action as well.đ
why does vented barrel have any relevance to the velocity coming out the muzzle
Loses pressure faster
Remember the hotter the rounds the more likely it can damage the weapon. The venting it or porting of the barrel helps in recoil management, but slows the velocity of the slug. Again it's a give and take situation. In the end shot placement via practice is key. Gimmick rounds are just that a gimmick via marketing.
The term vented, is in reference to a factory generic test barrel, that has a cylinder gap cut in the barrel to simulate an actual revolver. Most calibers lose about 5% or their velocity potential out of a cylinder gap, so for reference if my .44 Mag test here was using a single shot pistol with identical bullet travel, I may have gotten 1,252 FPS instead of 1,191 FPS (5% loss)
Im old school and vented barrel is like a pyrhon barrel with slots in a raised rib not the same as ported or compensated barrel@@ratagris21
@@Skeetah-fl4px same idea
FYI - quit making those 75yd shots look easy. I have shot full size silhouette targets with 6â 686 at 100yds, and it is tough with iron sights offhand. Hit maybe 1 out of 5 double action, it improved with single action to around 3 out of 5.
It would be interesting to see both these tested through a 16 inch carbine.
A 180 gr. .44 may be a good comparison
But I was being brand and model specific. Winchester Big Bore only comes in 158 gr and 240 gr in these calibers.
Heres a âwhat ifâ question. If you saw a brown bear running towards you, which one of these guns would you grab first?
Well, to be fair I would be using ammo that I find suitable, not this ammo - and I am from Michigan so I have no brown bear experience. But, if I could choose one of these guns with whatever ammo I choose, I would probably go with the 686 .357 Magnum because the Buffalo Bore 180 gr hard cast moves at something like 1,350 FPS and well over 700 ft lbs from this 686. That round also penetrates more than most .44 Mag loads. So I would have 6 shots of rounds that are pretty easy to control, VS 5 rounds of .44 Mag that no matter the ammo - seem to recoil harder even with 180 gr .44 Mag. Plus the sectional density of a 180 .357 Mag beats a 180 .44 Mag so the .357 Mag in my opinion would be a better choice. Now the other end of the spectrum - lets say all I had was generic Remington, Federal or Winchester .357 Mag 158 gr soft point VS generic (same brands) .44 Mag 240 gr soft points, I will opt for the .44 Mag because it will on average have 250-350 more ft lbs energy and work better.
With the recent test of underwood ammo, this would be a good idea...
357 magnum 158gr ammo from underwood, remington, winchester, and hornady. Compare same weight class for perspective.
Same for 44 mag as a separate video, 240gr weight class.
Both using the same test gun, it would be a more direct comparison of factory ammo instead of between two different guns in two different calibers.
Underwood makes decent Magnum ammo, it's no Buffalo Bore but it's general like 1,470 FPS 600 ft lbs in .357 Mag for about the cost of generic Remington ammo, but it's as hot as generic .357 Magnum used to be years ago. In my experience, Underwood .44 Mag is about the same energy as other brands so I am not sure I would see different results.
@@GunSam yes, that was the point I was going for.
1. Bullets of same weight class
2. Bullets of same type (hollow point vs hollow point, soft points only, Hardcast ect...)
3. Out of the same handgun.
This removes several variables and makes the focus on apples to apples terminal performance (not energy figures). Wound channel, bullet integrity/upset, penetration, and consistency are all far more important than energy figures. Energy numbers are useful in comparing different cartridges, but for the same cartridge other factors are more important and better for measuring real world performance.
"We can get 1,550,327 FPS with our awesome load" *test barrel 6 miles long, with a slit for cylinder gap.
I think it's a waste of money. It has slower burning powder, and nothing special about the bullet. At $46 for 20 rounds. All it did was convince me I need to reload for my .44 magnum.
I would use this on deer out of a revolver no problem.
Well that was underwhelming. Fer bars n the like you'd be better off with hardcast solids.
Cheaper too. Underwood hard cast is like, always less than 30 bucks a box and more powerful. These were like $40 a box or so. I could have hand loaded junk like these with non magnum pistol powder for a cost of about 6 bucks.
Just take out 2 bad guys with each shot. Out of a 7.5 hunting gun performance would be better.
Your revolvers at point blank are pretty similar to a rifle's velocity at 100yds so I'll go ahead and skip these for hunting
I think a 240 gr jhp at full power has more power at 100 yds than an 8 " revolver , I think they are = @ 120 yds . Lucky Gunner has a chart that shows that with common ammo .
@@danoneill2846 Depends enormously on the load and the bullet - 100yds is a good rule of thumb.
I don't think that's quite right lol. I don't have the calculators and whatnot in front of me, but like what Dan says I recall knowing like .357 Mag from a 2" barrel is as powerful as a 6" from 100 yards, so 4" to 8" would be like 100 yards with an 8" barrel is like 4" point blank with .44 Mag.
@@GunSam If you're gonna do math on us you need to show your work.
31"??? damn I guess that great if you are hunting rhinos or sumting... not much else.
For deer or carry a Large HP that is like the Rem 180 gr JHP or the Sierra 240 gr JHP would be far better than this ammo or soft points . They work great ! This is bear ammo !! The 180 gr works at low vel for carry .
I have never hit a deer with a handgun round, but I shot 3 deer of similar size with .270 Weatherby Mag, .444 Marlin and 12 gauge slug all from around 40 yards. Even though the .270 and .444 had about the same energy, the .270 did vastly better.
@@GunSam It's all bullet construction , if you shot a 240 gr JHP Sierra out of a 444 .. I think it would do fine for deer . I think many people with that round have loaded that bullet .
@@GunSam My Sierra book has data for the 180 & 240 Gr JHP Sierra handgun bullets , they are 2,400 FPS & 2,100+/- that is very fast . They are very accurate out of a revolver or 44 mag rifle .
Those arenât sissy loads đ
Those are rifle rounds, not handgun rounds. Winchester should clarify that.
Winchester is all over the place with this. They even have it listed as 157 gr (yes, they say 157 gr not 158 gr) soft point on their website (not hollow point), while my box says 158 gr SJHP. They have one video and they don't say anything except it was made for hunting or defending against bears. Their written info simply says stuff like it's made for hunting and personal defense needs.
Terrible expansion
Good huntin' cartridges. I would love to see how those results compared to being tested out of lever actions per their respective calibers. I have .357mag and .44mag revolvers, yet no rifles for those yet. Am a poorđ€Łđ„Č
That's my thing. If I drop a grand on something, I better love it and plan a myriad of tests with it to be worth it. I am not really a big lever gun or rifle guy anymore, so it would be a lot of money for not much testing. Maybe if I can find one of those H&R single shot rifles in those calibers.
@@GunSam Understandable, especially in this economy...