'Stayed Gone' Is WORSE Than You THOUGHT [HAZBIN HOTEL]
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Hazbin Hotel brings us 2 new songs every episode, but Vox and Alastor's villain duet leaves a lot to be desired... Join Calxiyn as she dives into why 'Stayed Gone', while catchy is disappointing when compared to other villain songs and the songs within Hazbin Hotel. This Video Essay will break down the instrumentation, lyrics, rhythm and characterization, as well as show examples of how these elements could have been improved!
Thanks to DaveGlasses for the clean instrumental!: / 1749966496455860399
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QUESTIONS COMMENT THREAD: What questions do you have? Reply to this comment so I can see it better! And thanks to all the patrons for their support and all of you for helping me get this channel monetized
This could very well be a stretch, but I feel there can be an argument for why Alastor’s mirrored verse doesn’t completely match Vox’s. Vox set a “status quo” of his own when he began the song, and now Alastor in turn is corrupting it and making it his own; the point being that it being broken is also to piss off Vox even more. This could just be devil’s advocate though.
I think that this would have worked if they had more repetition - I mention this toward the end, but musical theatre songs build up familiarity before changing things up, so if Vox had two verses or two chorus' similar to the opening and Alastor had changed it at the end I'd be like "Ohhhh I see" but because there's only two we don't have enough 'data' so to speak. I think you're on to something in terms of what they were attempting but they didn't "earn" the change since the audience has nothing familiar to compare it to.
I'm not familiar with musical structure at all, but I love poetry, and I'm wondering if the syllable scheme for the singing part might have been fixed by simply moving Al's "And" to the beginning of Vox's first verse there? "And while he hid in radio" would match Al's 8-8-11 for the first verse, and "Here's the sugar in the cream" would match Vox's 7-7-11 for the second verse?
First, love the videos and everything. I've watched all 3 now.
I am curious what your opinion is about when the lyricist purposely lines up the assonance of stressed syllables instead of complete rhyming. There's actually a school of thought that for darker/heavier songs you want to line up the assonance of stressed syllables but not rhyme on purpose so the song sounds more serious and less whimsical/sing-songy/childish.
Like with the "Welcome home" and "Say hello" part, I find the real glaring problem to be that the "o" in "hello" isn't a stressed syllable, and that the meter doesn't line up since "Welcome home" is stressed syllable-unstressed syllable-stressed syllable and "Say hello" is stressed syllable-stressed syllable-unstressed syllable. So I think it really crumbles because they don't have assonance of stressed syllables lined up: they have assonance between a stressed syllable ("home") and an unstressed syllable (the "o" in "hello").
Anyway, just something to think about. Once again, your videos are the best I've seen on this subject apart from the ones from Pat Pattison (of course).
@vagabondangel2753 Yup, you're exactly correct!
I feel like all of Vox's sloppiness makes sense because like, while it seems like "alastor is getting under Vox's skin and his performance progressively degrades because of it" just listening to the song, in the full episode it feels more like "Vox is already panicking and trying to run preemptive damage control, Alastor notices and chooses that exact moment to step in and broadcast himself to peel away his illusion of confidence."
Agreed. It conveys Vox's character of just spitting out whatever he can with cheep entertainment to try to minimize the situation. However Alastor decides to chime in right in the middle of Vox's rant and Vox's performance begins to fall apart as he is not able to keep up with Alastor.
That is literally the obvious point of it lmao
@@Jdudec367once again just because you can read it from subtext doesn’t mean it’s done well in the song lol
@@blossomentrails3398 It was done well though/
@@Jdudec367 It's really more opinion on wether or not it was done well
Not in a way that applauds the lyricists for their mistakes, but the fact that Vox's lines are suuuch a scrambled mess compared to Alistair's is so satisfying to me. I wouldn't wish for this version over a second draft BUT for me the song still does what its meant to to a decent degree
Yeah I know what you mean. I think to illustrate this better they should have done “Vox in private, Vox confident, Vox scrambled” so then we’d know 100% everything was intended. Cause I do like the scrambled but I wish we had some more verses to be familiar before the change!!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I read through some of the comments to make sure I wasn't repeating but seconded. A little more build up probably would have fixed most of the issue- either via lyrics by showing Vox in a 'neutral' state vs 'triggered', or (and this is is the comic artist coming out) by showing Vox doing all those different channels simultaneously, it builds up to him accidentally bringing outfits from one set onto another set and mis-matching to emphasize he's got too many fingers in too many pies and is losing track.
Just two cents, you can take or leave.
the "sugar on the cream" with tea references the English cream tea tradition I think. That has clotted cream which traditionally does not have sugar, so putting sugar on it may be appropriate (though generally jam is spread on top of it.) It makes Alastor seem more aristocratic I think.
I agree that it makes him seem aristocratic, and also that expression has an old-timey vibe even though it's not actually a real expression. Cal is right, I think "sugar IN the cream" makes a lot more sense than "sugar ON the cream", because whipped cream is made with sugar to sweeten it.
Yeah that might be it! I tried to look up the clotted cream thing just now to see some history and all there is is recipes LOL. But I think they should have been more specific in that case since I had no clue what he was talking about 😭
Isn’t “that’s the tea” stand for telling someone a secret
Yes, it is!
I feel if Alastor said the line as "Here's the sugar with the cream", we'd have less issues with the length still being 7 syllables, the saying making sense with cream and sugar, just flipped on its head, and it makes more sense for British Tea.
Personally I have no issues with the song. I love it how it is. But I do respect people's opinions.
I appreciate that!
To each their own, but I felt like Borles vocal performance perfectly captured Vox’s anxiety/insecurity regarding Alastor’s return. As soon as his talk show bit started I picked up that they’re purposely going for scrambled, rushed, and a poorly made “hit piece” on Alastor to attempt to sway public opinion. Then his “who gives a shit” right before Alastor enters the song really sells the premise in case anyone else hadn’t picked up on it yet.
I think what would have assisted this would be a part for Vox where he wasn’t insecure, so we could see him slowly descending into madness lol. Just because this song is soooo short there’s really no reason not to do a little more.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch we do see that in his interaction with Velvette and Val prior though. He has Val wrapped around his finger the entire conversation; leading him on and manipulating him into not wanting to go after Angel anymore. Then during the song we see him frantic and desperate for the public eye
Oh I meant musically. Not character wise!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch regardless, I feel like the necessary context is provided for the song
With Vox's part. I'm thinking about how he is a tv host and his repetitiveness is like trying to create hooks like "clickbait" to pull in the viewers before he gets to his main idea. Alastor literally won that, though. He didn't even defend himself and went HAM on Vox. Left the man yelling desperately.
Though musically, I can see where you are coming from. Nice take!
Ye I feel that. I wish they had sung it though :( I’d love to see someone do that part but sung and see what it would be like!!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch There are already plenty of covers! I'm sure we'll find one.
28:57 "yapping" honestly would have been better. Idk if it's still canon but at one point in development Alastor was reported to hate dogs, so calling him one would be better as a personal dig.
That’s HILARIOUS!
I wonder if they purposefully messed up Vox's rhyming sceme on purpose to make him sound more frantic and less put together? Alastair seems to have better more consistent rhyme patterns, so maybe this was purposeful? Also, "sugar on the cream" is an old-timey English saying that fits Alistair's character alot more than the more modern "that's the tea" line.
Yeah, I was wondering that as well and mention that later on in the video - I think the issue with that is that the instrumentation doesn't really change. Like if we had unhinged instrumental with unhinged lyrics it would do better to convey that, but the song treats them as though they are equals. It's a weird mixed message where Vox's lyrics would tell us he's desperate and not Alastor's equal but the music is telling us they are the same.
Yeah re: the cream thing, I did look it up and I couldn't find ANYTHING. Google has been terrible lately but even "sugar on the cream english saying" doesn't give me anything so thanks for letting me know! I don't know though if in terms of a lyric it's "well known" enough to be used like this since it's not as widely used as "icing on the cake" but I am glad they didn't just invent it LOL.
Edit: I hadn't watched the entire video when you directly address this lol
Lol don't worry, you're fine, it's all engagement XD
@CalxiynCaresTooMuch Yeah, it would kind of be like a surfer dude character saying something is "radical" even though nobody outside of that surfer-dude persona really uses that word. "Sugar on the cream" isn't really used nowadays, but it just makes sense for a character from the 30s or 40s or whenever old-timey time he died.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I don't think Alastor is english. With out his radio filter he's got an American accent. It's a front he puts on. Sugar on the cream could be referring to cream pie. I think there's also a different desert that's literally just cream and sugar.
Alaster died in 1933, hes gonna use obscure, outdated phrases
I mean there’s obscure and there’s nonexistent lol
*alastor
...like podcast?
The cream is referring to coffee cream. People put sugar in their coffee cream on top of already having cream to make it sweater.
The idea is that its sweat, and he's now making it sweater. Then later on he refers to the tea and he's spilling the tea after making the gossip sweater.
The tea should tie more into coffee, rather then tea. So tea is the issue not the cream.
I think "Hell's Greatest Dad" is a better example of a feud between Alastor and Lucifer.
I'm glad you're doing these videos, because so few people have learned lyricism. Hopefully, people see your videos and it opens up a path to people learning a lot. :)
I hope so too! They are really fun for me and a nice change of pace from what I usually do on my other channel so as long as people keep watching them I’ll be here!!
Omg I'm sorry this is a long comment but this video got me thinking about how this song characterizes them (mostly Vox). Combined with some of my opinions and conclusions before and after this..
Vox's talking part kinda feels like it was meant to be flashy and visually heavy to overcompensate for the fact that he's rambling with little rhyme or reason, I just don't know if that was intentional or not. Regardless of what they wanted to achieve, it should've either been structured or executed/conveyed better.
Vox wants to get ahead of Alastor by "roasting" him before Alastor can even make a proper return and show how much better he is than his rival. He's overdoing it with with the visuals, to capture the audience's attention, that much is clear. But like you said, it's hard to tell if his lyrics are supposed to be poor as a way to portray that he's not good at this/his shows aren't intelligent and are just mindless entertainment or if it's the lyricist that did a poor job.
On the other hand, if their intention was for this part to show Vox being all confident and owning Alastor, then his entire opening part failed completely at conveying that.
However, I feel like this is what they were aiming for so, if they wanted to show that Vox is usually smarter but gets sloppy BECAUSE Alastor gets under his skin and makes him nervous, I think they should've done more to make that clear because Vox's nervousness and sense of urgency really only starts to come through in his voice when he gets to the part "Where's he been? Who gives a shit?"
The talking part before that should've either had him more put together, with cleaner lyrics, or with more purposefully sloppy lyrics (Ik you pointed this out too). This way I can't tell if his broadcasts at the start were supposed to be more calm and "business as usual" or if they were supposed to be sloppier because he's worried about Alastor. It's not "bad" enough to feel like it was purposely bad and it's not pointed out by any other character either (Alastor was the perfect opportunity to give more information/context to this while firing back) and it's not witty enough to feel like it was supposed to start out good and then decline.
I think as the songs go on, it gets clearer that they wanted to show that Alastor gets under Vox's skin as it builds to him getting more snappy and just starting to childishly curse at Alastor towards the end because he's no longer thinking about what would be a good comeback, because he's so upset. They do this pretty well, in my opinion. I actually like that Vox just goes "You're looking at the future. He's the shit that comes before that" because it matches the progression of Vox getting more and more upset, and his lyrics getting worse and worse. (They still could've had a better rhyme here than just another "that" tho)
Overall, I get what they were going for, it just could've been more competently done, they should've been a little clearer with some of these points, imo. I hope my rambling was somewhat coherent sdjhajhd
I've also been wondering why this song is just kinda okay to me. Like I listen to it when it comes up on my feed, but it just has a lot of mid points so, this video also helped me understand where these feelings may be coming from. XD
It's definitely crippled the most by the fact they're talking. I feel like most of these issues would've been more forgivable if they at least SANG all the way through. Especially because Alastor has a MUCH better duet with Lucifer three episodes later so, I'm just like... WHY COULDN'T WE HAVE HAD THIS, you can clearly DO IT and NAIL IT. ;w;
Don’t worry about the long comment! I enjoyed reading it - I totally agree like, I feel what they were going for could have been expressed better with more time because if we got verse-verse-chorus for both of them and a bridge we’d get to see that contrast more. We should have had “Vox in private, Vox feels confident, Vox gets desperate, then Alastor feels confident, duet, Alastor in private.”
I can’t wait to talk about Alastor and Lucifer though! Other than the ending I think there’s some really cool stuff going on in there!! Thanks for watching and leaving such a thoughtful comment! 🥰🥰
For the "sugar on the cream," I'd actually go with a set of rhymes that ends in -ee, because it could even fit with "tea" (because "please" and "Vees" doesn't really match "tea" without an S):
The delicious irony,
He once begged to work with me!
I said no, and now he's pissy, that's the tea!
I really like that! Begged is a really nice word to use in there too, good job!
Uh.. no. To “work with me” implies literally the opposite of what “join his team” does. That would mean Vox was agreeing to work *under* Alastor, which is just… fucking no.
I do agree that “begged” is a great word to put in there though. It’s nice and condescending :P
@@Kayta-Linda
"Work with" literally doesn't mean "work under."
I work WITH my coworkers. I work UNDER my manager.
@@IsomerMashups
When you ask someone if you can work with them, it automatically implies the other person has authority and final say on things.
.. especially when you aren't just asking, but *begging.*
Context is important, and that line would paint a *very* specific picture.
@@Kayta-Linda exactly. What better way to humiliate your rival than to say that he begged for the mere chance to be your lapdog?
I'm glad to see someone else talking about how the rhyme patterns are just totally messed up between Vox' and Alastor's verses.
Cause while translating the song into my native language for fun, that was indeed the first thing I did. Settling on a god damn consistent rhyme pattern.
I wonder how it sounds like in the other official languages on Amazon, because I think there is singing in Italian and such. I wonder if they changed it or kept the structure the same to match the EN singers.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch as far as I can tell while going through the individual tracks of all/ most of the languages' soundtracks they're of varying quality, but I'm pretty sure that's because Amazon didn't give the dubbing studios alot of time. So all of them had to decide what songs they priorities in translation and dubbing and which ones kinda have to be sacrificed.
Poison is ironically one of the songs I saw sacrificed alot and I think it's because the song is so fast and music video like in nature that most of the most important meaning is already conveyed in the visuals and the overall vibes of the lyrics. You REALLY would need to go out of your way to NOT give the viewer to intended information.
But coming back to Stayed Gone, the best version I've heard besides English is Russian. I highly recommend it!
My language's version is German and while I do like it, I think it's clearly a case of the studio not having concidered it a priority lyrics wise and your video actually made it clearer to me why that could have been the case.
With the amount of kinda random nonsense Vox is saying, how many times he is repeating himself, and how much of a mess the original lyrics are structure wise, I couldn't blame them for prioritizing songs like "Loser, baby" (German Husk is AMAZING!), "You didn't know" or both Lucifer duets in episode 5.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch The italian one is quite good (to me), but that's mostly cause there was heavy editing and changing of words.
The latinoamerican version (made in my country, chile) is very bad. It barely rhymes at all and sometimes it feels like they get left behind by the instrumental. The spanish one is less bad, rhymes better, but still kinda mediocre to be honest.
Here's a multilanguage of the full song, if you want to hear all the official versions. czcams.com/video/jjJGaztXBQs/video.htmlsi=NPDhF0C00jy26xVy
Goddamn. everything you hate about it, I love about it. It’s actually my favorite song in the series at this point. I guess it’s OK to light things that are structurally unsound. I will take this to my grave.
I actually liked the song the more I listened to it. I actually liked Vox’s interjections and his section because it sounded desperate, insecure and unhinged. He basically pulled an obvious shitty PR move to try to get ahead of the controversy and control the narrative, but he did it so poorly because he is so bothered. If we had a song or verses, that showed how he normally is as opposed to how unhinged he becomes, the point, would’ve been a lot clearer, but as it stands now, I guess I can understand that confusion. I think the show has a lot of problems in general, but I think it comes down to only having eight episodes and not enough time to tell the story so I can understand the “first draft” issues.
I'd love to know what you're top 3 are just out of curiosity! I'm curious if there's a common pattern about the people who have my similar top three vs the opposite. I think a big reason the song is still able to really hook people is because while the melody has structural issues, the composition in the instrumental is still sound/catchy. It's similar to "You Didn't Know" where my friend and I were like "there's some weird stuff happening here but the way the music hits is so punchy that it gets you emotionally first" lol.
When I found out that they wrote all the songs in 8-10 weeks I was really distressed by that sksksksk. Hopefully they get more time next time!
I feel really similarly to this person, I know talk-singing has it's hatred to an extent, however I'm at the complete opposite of the spectrum and generally love it, weird/wonky ryhme schemes, both in rap and in this genre can really characterize/show differences in motivations,choices, and more.
My top three are stayed gone, Happy day in hell, and you didn't know. @@CalxiynCaresTooMuch
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchI’d love to hear your thoughts on “You Didn’t Know”! I do like that song (though “Hell is Forever” and “Respectless” are my personal favorites) but it would be interesting to watch an analysis about it (even if it is not always positive).
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the show’s music! As a casual enjoyer of musical theatre, I find your commentary to be very insightful! :))
Awwww thank you so much!! I do have a Respectless video cooking and I’d love to do every song as long as you all want to hear it!
It's funny, at first I had chalked up my distaste for this song to the fact that I'm one of the two people in the entire fandom who don't care for Alastor at all (I have fundamental problems with his design and characterization but it's mostly just me not finding him particularly charming on a very surface level, which would have saved him in my eyes otherwise lol)
But now I realize that it's just... The clapback didn't feel earned at all. There was never any real struggle between him and Vox. The whole thing is just Vox being insecure and foaming at the mouth from the moment he opens it, and then Alastor being all suave and totally pwning him Le Epic Style™ because he just is that cool and special. I don't know, it just felt like a moderately entertaining nothing burger at the end of the day
Yeah I totally agree. They didn’t sell me on the idea of a feud because there was no struggle. Something like “What Is This Feeling” in Wicked has those contrasting blows and overlapping parts that I feel like this really needed! I’m glad I’m not alone I was really worried about posting this LOL
Omg yes... You've hit the nail on the head. There's nothing currently for me to root for Alastor/to hate on Vox. Like, all I saw was what seemed like a Gary Stu defeating a guy, because that's just what was presented to me. 🤷
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchyes!! It didn't feel like a feud. So as a result, I just felt embarrassed watching it. 🫣
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchYou're so brave for having posted this at all to be honest 😂 the hazbin fandom can definitely be intense at times. But I think your first two videos on the songs from Wish already proved that your criticism is constructive and that you know what you're talking about. I wasn't 100% on board by the title of this video alone but I ended up agreeing completely by the time I was done with it
Yeah I was a little bit worried about posting this, and even in the back-end there's some funky stuff going on that I suspect has to do with Hazbin Hotel fans not liking what I have to say LOL. But Hunter and I (who I mention I do reactions with) have been making content on the show since the pilot came out, so I hope people will understand I'm not hating blindly or anything but just want to be honest!
A lot of people have already been talking about how Vox's rhymes are sloppy because he's not really in his game, but I'd like to point out that Alastor's callback to the opening is also jumbled up a bit on purpose, he's taken over, so at that point he's more taunting Vox, hence prioritizing echoing his words about him "staying gone" over actually rhyming it, and the shift to an internal rhyme for the "status quo" part is almost like he's dismissing it.
i’d love to hear your take on you didn’t know because while it’s a chaotic mess i do enjoy it. especially want to hear your take on lute’s part because it’s my current ear worm and possibly my new favorite simile???
"You Didn't Know" is REALLY... something haha. A trend I'm seeing in the comments is basically like "the instrumental is so catchy but I felt like something was off" and I think that it's the same case. Like the composer is "doing his job" so to speak but the lyricist is like, some of the rhymes are WHACK lol. It's almost like, if you can remember the instrumental better than you can remember the lyrics it's usually not a good sign (though as you mentioned Lute's part that one may actually have the tight lyrics, I need to investigate further haha)
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchher part does have an imperfect rhyme (about/mouth) but i’ve noticed i’m much more forgiving of those than you are (makes sense, i didn’t go to school for this). definitely not the worst in the song though, and she probably has one of the better rhymes as well (already/petty - though i’m curious to see if you disagree with this, to me it works cause i say petty the same way it’s sung more like “peddy”)
all in all i really love your analysis videos and it was such a nice surprise to see you cover hazbin! even if i don’t mind some of the songwriting sins you point out i love the passion in your videos and find you to be a fellow lover of nitpicking the media we enjoy. i know i can’t love anything without tearing it to shreds in one way or another lmaoooo
10:07 someone probably already mentioned this, but you could also read the line as "brand new DON" as in a mafia boss. Vox is the new guy in charge.
Yeah, I feel like they should really update the subtitles to say "don" because that makes so much more sense to me LOL
my hazbin hyperfixation has come back in full force ever since the series came out, and ive been waiting for some analysis of the songs! as much as i love this song, vox's verse DEFINITELY doesnt work, when i first heard the song i didnt even realize he was supposed to be talk-singing, i just thought it was a dialogue interjection and the verse proper is gonna start aaaany minute now, but then i noticed that he's rhyming and i was like OH SHIT THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE VERSE????
and yeah, a bridge where theyre singing together wouldve been amazing - maybe something like nothing left to lose from tangled the series, where theyre singing over each other and then sing the last few lines in unison? wouldve been cool methinks
😅 I had the same thought when I heard it.
I’m glad to hear it’s not just me!! Left to Lose is a great example - they could definitely have had this vibe of Alastor and Vox broadcasting at the same time to different groups of people until Alastor wins!
Weirdly enough, I misheard/misremembered "is Vox strong as he purports, or is it based on his support?"
As "Is Vox as strong as he reports
Or is it based on old retorts?"
Which, to me, makes way more sense stucturally (I relistened to the song for this video). Especially since it follows with "he'd be powerless without the other Vees"
That’s really interesting! I guess the radio distortion may have caused that. They could have even said “his cohorts” to bleed into the idea of the Vees being stronger than him as well!!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch omg you responded 😮 hi!!!!
Yeah, cohorts would be pretty good there. You're work is amazing!
"Is Vox as strong as he reports
Or is he just an on-loop retort?
He'd be powerless without the other Vees!"
That's how I'd figure they'd rewrite it
(Lame retorts? Tame cohort? Idk)
6:08 i like to think that the reason there is not a rhyme for gone in alastors part i because hes going to break vox's current status quo just like how he broke the rhyme
The lines
"Is Vox as song as he purports?
Or is it based on his support?
He'd be powerless without the other Vees."
Are amazing imo, he undermines Vox with just a few simple lines.
Yeah I agree with you. Like despite the criticism I had with “purports” and “support”, it’s really clever. And whereas Vox tells people what he wants them to think, Alastor just lets people question. Which is more powerful because it’s leading someone to their own conclusions.
Honestly its my favorite song because of how odd and goofy it is to be honest i think personally i hear all of these songs that feel like they're maybe even trying to hard or something and this one just feels nice
I will give Vox's va Christian Borle, a lot of respect because he is doing a ton of good frantic character acting to cover the awkwardness of his lines
I didn't notice how bad some of his lines in this song are till you pointed it out, and I think that's due to the very frantic delivery on his part. I'd say that Vox is meant to be portrayed as a bit of an idiot in this song, but you are 100% correct that the lyricism could've done a better job at portraying that. Either that, or I'm giving the Hazbin team too much credit
Yeah, I understand what they were going for but the scene before this has Vox manipulating Valentino. So I think he should be smart at first and only become stupid when Alastor starts taking his audience away lol
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I see where you're coming from, but tbh I'm fine with Vox still being 100% stupid while being able to manipulate his employees because Vox is supposed to be like a tech CEO and they tend to have cults of personality especially around their inner circle while seeming like total idiots from the outside
Little do you know how much i thought about you
I mean i listened to this song and i couldn't find about why something felt wrong but the song is good
I really wished to have some of your knowledge so i can point it out thanks for your great video ❤
English is not my first language so sorry for any mistakes
Thank you so much!!! I’m happy to share my knowledge with all of you!
The talk singing is my favorite part
I could have sworn they both say "Stayed gone" - and also that Alastor says "His supports" (since there ARE two supports?). Guess my brain fixed that on its own XD
“Sugar on the cream” is about how he likes his tea, probably
No, he hates sweets canonically
I get it, there were snippets of stayed gone that I liked..... but together it felt a little.... off in places. I liked it, but its probably my least favorite of the songs so far
Yeah, and I hope this helps to put to words why it feels off in places!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch After finishing the video, yeah, absolutely. And it's a shame, because I feel like they nailed it for "Hells Greatest Dad" so they can clearly do the song battle well.
Either way, great analysis!
Thank you so much! I can't wait to talk about Hell's Greatest Dad, I feel like except for the ending (lol) it's SO fun, and so clearly Aladdin inspired I LOVE IT
10:14 i thought he said 'don' like mob boss, like he's the new boss
The subtitles say “Dawn” on Amazon prime but if it’s “Don” that’s SO much better
I think vox sounding weid and ammateur was the idea, since both lyrics/pieces were written by the same people.
they could have done vox sounds clearer and smarter, but the whole point is that he isn't yet he THINKS he is and that he has a rivalry and can battle with alastor, that he is completely dellusional.
vox vs alastor is not a battle between two boxers (like vox likes to believe) but a school bully trying to fight a fully trained 28yo army soldier, it's a slaughter, and they showed this to us musically.
I want to preface this by saying im not trying to claim what you're saying is wrong or bad in any way, I'm just trying to add my own opinion, maybe spark some discussion.
I think this song is a great example of breaking the rules to make the overall effect better.
An example I'm going to use to try and explain is the "While he hid in radio, we pivoted to video" imo the eight syllable line seems purposely "rushed" as you put it (I'm not trained at all in musical theatre so i really don't know any terms, but I've loved any and all musicals for years), and I think it illustrates really well both a feel of "swinging" from one medium to another, but also how rushed the TV guy's media is compared to Alistair's.
Overall, some amazing points as there always are in your videos! But, as I've seen you mention in some other comments, music and songwriting IS a form of art, which means it's oftentimes more effective if it doesn't adhere to every single rule in the book
I find it funny that Hell’s Greatest Dad is a better feud song than Stayed Gone, a jokey argument song is better than the the main feud between overlords
It was SO good! I can’t wait to talk about it - whereas I don’t know what happened with this 😭😭😭
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch this was… well at least the next episode had better songs (not amazing, but better than this. I do love Loser Baby though)
Ok, this! Something about that song just felt wrong and I couldn’t identify what or why. I thought maybe it was the talking or how boring (?) a lot of Vox’s lines were. I didn’t know how badly I needed this video!
I’m so glad to hear it! I’m glad that this helps!
I listen to alot of heavier metal genres and they rarely rhyme and they kinda have this “telling a story” vibe. As in it sounds more like a conversation rather than extremely well crafted lyrics with rhymes and “structure” or whatever. So im used to all that, i say these songs are all bangers lol
That’s the difference between other music and musical theatre - but at the end of the day that’s what makes musical theatre different :) or rather it should be.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch fair point. If the medium with which the show is trying to be, which is musical theatre, fumbles the ball, then someone like yourself has every right to call them out for it. Im still gonna love it tho 🤪
one thing i'm surprised you didn't mention was Alastor's usage of "that's the tea", because as you mentioned he's suppose to be way more refined and old fashioned, but that is late 2010's slang that his character would otherwise never use. i mean i guess it could be him mocking Vox by using his slang, but that doesn't feel very in character for what we've seen of Alastor and Vox isn't even the one who would use that style of slang- that would be Velvette
So here’s something interesting about that: There’s “Tea” as in, tea time and “T” as in the truth. So you can say “That’s the T” as in that’s the truth, or “No T no Shade” as in “it’s not any snarky T, its not malicious T, it’s like, the real T that you need to hear.” - the internet has turned “T” which was just the letter “T” into Tea.
Gathering for tea and gossiping was something that people definitely did before 2010, so I think it’s actually a nice blend of the old and new meaning. If they had written it as “T” and also didn’t have the cup (??? Lol it’s been so long I can’t remember… he does have a cup right???” I’d think they were trying too hard to be cool but I think it actually does sound old fashioned when Alastor says it. Reminds me of Bridgerton 😂
I can’t think of a good example but by comparison if he said “GOAT” or “Delulu” or “Rizz” I’d be all over it but I think in this case it’s passable lol.
I love stayed gone its one of my favorites but I understand your opinion
Thank you!
And here I was thinking he was saying “Brand new Don” like in mafia boss.
I agree, the talking part should have been something else and better.
*He asked me to join his team, i said no..* was an absolute banger of a finisher line. It was over after that.
Vox lost, everything after that was simply cherry ontop
That was revealed perfectly, I will say!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch Absolutely, just.. stellar!👌💯
Perfection
"The shit that comes before that" i feel is pretty fine
Because the sentence in itself is dumb and first listen i thought yeah vox is getting mad and he's losing the argument
Like
1*insert thing here* 2 The shit that comes before that
Is dumb but and character i feel
But then again when i listen to musicals i never think about the lyricist and just think about the character
For the "Uh-oh, the TV is buffering!" line, I think it fits in the sense that Alastor HATES modern technology (anything newer than radio), and doesn't know what sort of malfunctions a modern device could have. Alastor could have heard the term "buffering" from someone else at the hotel, and thinking it fits with any modern device, sarcastically asks if Vox is buffering.
On the side, I like these critique videos of yours. I love HH, flaws and all, such a guilty pleasure, but seeing the ways it could be improved is fascinating. I don't know a lot about musical theatre outside of Disney lol, so a perspective from a professional is always insightful.
I found the line "Now his medium is getting bloody rare" works for me. You ask if it is "getting" bloody rare what it was before and it's stated that it is medium. Since we are talking about the meat interpretation you mention it's an impossible decline going from more cooked to less cooked but this is what stands out, it's surprising information, meat can't go from being medium to being rare. Surprising information is memorable. Plus the other interpretation being a broadcast medium, in this case radio becoming scarce which adds to its memorability.
hearing you mention the little miss perfect sequel gave me TOTAL whiplash. you truly had to be there
I think you’re the only person who noticed LOL I’ve been WAITING
WAS LOOKING FOR THIS COMMENT
I think Alastor's part being cleaner is intentional because Vox is panicking and cramming as much as he can into his verse, salesman like. He's good at convincing people, but Alastor's presence is a threat to him hence Vox tripping over himself lyrically. It could have absolutely been portrayed better! But, I think it's intentional. Hence why the same song has such different lyrical quality.
Yeah, I also didn't like the song when I listened to it for the first time, but as I listened more and more I stared to appreciate it. Still I agree that Vox's fast paced non-singing fast talking was the most jarring part and I wish it would've been changed for something more melodic with more rhythmical structure.
I have no problem with "his medium is getting bloody rare", I thought it was one of the best and wittiest lines in the song? And why the word "getting" should imply a comparison to something. In my understanding this metaphor works like this: making stakes is and iterational process, you repeat it over and over with different pieces of meat. It used to be medium, but mow the chief went senile and insane so all the meat is cooked to bloody rare.
I guess the best way I can explain it for that second thing is for example: if you said "Cal is getting angry" that would imply that I was previously happy/calm. I didn't think of it that way though, I think that may be too complicated for a single lyric but I do understand what you mean now that you mention it. Like it's less that Alastor is the meat, but that he's the actual chef.
I am a big fan of this song, but your video made me look at it the other way! That's so interesting how you can improve a song so much by changing a couple of rhymes and words! Thank you for another beautiful analysis!
Thank you so much! I’m glad that people who still like the song enjoy the video too 🥰🥰
I enjoy the songs in Hazbin quite a lot so this was a surprising video to see (even with ones like Welcome to Heaven, I only rank them low because I like them, but I like other songs more, which I really like. It says different things about the quality that I'm ranking songs I liked more, higher, rather than ranking ones I didn't like lower). You do make good points about some of the rhyming but I can't help but feel like Vox's messiness was intentional, even if it could've been executed better 😅 I don't think it was a mistake. Really the only issue I had with the song is that I wish 'little' was emphasized more when Vox was glitching, so you can hear it better and Alastor's 'signal' doesn't feel like it's just there. And maybe it could've been nice to have a bump in Alastor's part to show he's not as on top of things as we think but I can understand why they'd want to keep that confined to Vox, since in this particular situation, Alastor absolutely has the upper hand. Other than that, basically nothing else registered as an issue to me.
Yeah... Now that you mention it the song sounds a lot more awkward to me than it did before. When I first heard Stayed Gone I sorta disliked the talk-singing but I thought it had a good enough finish. But now I see just how repetitive it is. This song as well as Carmillias have major problems.
I have a lot of problems with that one, I can't wait to talk about it LOL.
I have a lot of thoughts about Hazbin Hotel's songs, but no way to really voice it in an intelligent way. I dont know much about how musicals are written, but the feeling that there's something off with these songs kept persisting whenever I heard them (I have watched the show).
I can clumsily explain how I feel, but I'd rather listen to your thoughts and learn more to make sense of what I'm thinking! I'm glad you've made videos on these songs and I'm looking forward to watching all of them lol.
Another easy fix for the
"Is Vox as strong as he proports?"
"Or is it based on his support"
Rhyme is to just add an s to the end pf support. Vox is supported by at least two pillars of industry (Velvette and social media, and Valentino and... raunchy content). This is litterally followed up on with the next line "He'd be powerless without the other Vees" so clearly they recall the fact that Vox's company is supported by at least the other two Vees. (Not to mention whatever advertisement and collab deals the Vees get, and the creators they sign onto their platforms).
I also really like the proposed fix to the "Now his Medium is getting Bloody Rare" line. Swapping out getting with giving makes it a.) Seem like a snarky, cheap dig which I can totally see Vox doing personality wise, and b.) Makes him feel more connected to the way Velvette speaks. One of the problems that I have with the Vees is that since their speaking patterns are so distinct, it never really sold me on their connection. And while they could just be forced into a group for profit's sake, the finale song seems to be selling the idea of the Vees either being a found-family situation, or some sort of romantic connection- kind of hard to tell sine they have so little screen time. People who are connected tend to dress and speak similarly- but since each of the Vees has their own "gimmick," I find it quite hard to believe their dynamic when they are thrown in the same room together as anything other than contempt. I think that they're trying to go for the whole "Oh yeah, (name)? They suck and are annoying- but I love them anyways" vibe.
TLDR: Having some sort of lyrical indication of their connection to each other in the episode that's meant to introduce the Vees is important.
For the record, I have had the same issue with the sugar on the cream line! I agree that it's likely to tie into the tea line (even though that comes after). Btw black tea can be (and usually is i believe) served with milk so maybe that's what they mean? It could also have to due with alastor not liking sweet foods (something not mentioned in the Amazon show) so maybe it's a "and here's where it gets worse"?
I dont believe theres a such thing as doing music wrong, like, rules are made to be broken, especially in art
Exactly!
You’re clearly WAY more educated in songwriting than I am, so I’m not gonna talk out of my ass and try and sound like I know more than you, but I personally adore this song. The lyrics don’t have to be *perfect* to be good in my opinion. The lyrics are super catchy to me despite the flaws you called out, and the beginning of Vox’s verse where he talks through it but then switches to normal singing with the backup vocals behind him scratches my brain in the BEST way possible. If you don’t get what I mean I’m talking about those split second moments of "THE DEMON IS A COWARD" or "BUT HE SHOULD’VE STAYED AWAY", super satisfying im my opinion.
I also adore the characterization in this song. With Vox being the fast-talking, commercialistic salesman-esque character constantly trying to shit on Alastor saying his medium is dying and that Radio is out of style. Only for Alastor to come in and wiping the floor with Vox constantly roasting him and pressing his buttons. Not to mention the GODLIKE instrumentals in the background. Your criticisms are valid but in my opinion this song is a banger and my favorite song in the show.
A couple things, from my perspective:
"He's the shit that comes before that" actually worked for me as this idea you talk about, that 'he is lacking/losing the skill to wordsmith.' When I first heard it, I had an expectation for a more eloquent response from Vox that was subverted by this crass and graceless line. It came off to me like Vox was getting too frustrated to speak. Sure, it would work better if his verses in the beginning were cleaner, so your point still stands. Idk i just like that line.
"Chirping" is a term in some sports circles, like hockey, and it basically means making fun of someone. Although if you want to critique THAT interpretation, 'chirping' generally has a positive connotation, as in good-natured ribbing. In that case it doesn't sufficiently describe Alastor's malicious intent.
Interesting breakdown. From most of the lists ive seen this is most people top 3 songs(as of episode 4)
Whats your theory on that? Is it just because people likw alastor?
Thank you! I would say that it's a couple things: no tea no shade but even though Hazbin Hotel has an audience that likes musical theatre, a lot of the audience is probably teenagers/young adults that listen to pop music as a majority of their music and so as long as the hook is catchy some people don't really notice. And The instrumental can do a lot to cover up sins and such. Because the instrumental is catchy it helps to hide some of the uncanny elements.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch i think its less an age thing and more of a no theater/musical backround. For me, with no such backround, "whatever it takes" is one of my favorite but for the love of god i cant pinpoint why exactly it just...spoke to me. Anyway it was a good video and it takes guts to critic something popular so props to you!
Yeah, in terms of "Alastor Vs." Songs, "Hell's Greatest Dad" is definitely a step up.
Except for the ENDING. I cry. I cry
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchIt’s okay, we can cry together 😭
@CalxiynCaresTooMuch Yeah, Mimzy's lines really disrupts the flow.
Right, so before you even got to that segment and you're talking about fast singing I was thinking oh, it's your fault from into the woods the fact that you referenced it and your breakdown of respectless was so fantastic you got to subscriber
also I think the imperfection on Vox portion was intentional to show he's all spamming information and doing a lot without it being particularly good versus alastors more deliberate lyrics
Its funny, I liked the song on the first listen and then the more I listened to it, the worse it sounded. I thought Alastor said "Sugar and the Cream" at first and that made sense given how he brings it to tea and then I listened a second time and noticed it wasn't that, and a third time and it sounded weirder and I realized that none of it meshed but wasn't sure how. This video definitely helped make sense of it.
It would have been interesting if Vox started off using clean rhymes, and then began to lose structure in his lyrics as he becomes more flustered with Alastair's interjections
Im not sure if this was already mentioned and I just missed it, but something I found odd when it comes to characterization is Alastor using phrases like "clout-chasing mediocre video podcast" and "now he's pissy, that's the tea!" when they characterize him as somewhat behind the times and having a dislike towards modern technology and trends. I really feel like he should've used more "outdated" phrases, it would've provided more contrast with Vox who would be more likely to use modern slang.
Alastor has been in hell for a while. It’s very likely he’s picked up more modern phrases despite his retro aesthetic. I mean he literally swears 4 times in the show and that’s (intentionally) out of character for him.
23:23 one could argue that it was more of a dig at Alastor's eating habits. Alastor was seen in one episode eating a rotting deer carcass, so he clearly enjoys rotting meat, so he might take being compared to rotting meat as a compliment; calling his medium "bloody rare" would i guess be insulting him because Alastor might not like fresh meat? If that's the case though it is a really backwards insult that requires a lot of logical leaps
Or Vox is teasing him how much he has fallen from grace, they were friends so they would have eaten the finest steaks in hell when they hung out together but now Alastor is eating road kill or poor people meat from the grocery store lol
I agree with a lot of your criticisms; it doesn't take education to notice there are some quirks to the musical structure.
However, while I don't claim to have the same credentials, I do have criticisms of your criticisms.
- The "Here to Hijack" suggestion just doesn't satisfy me very much; it flows terribly with the instrumental when you actually try to slot it in.
- I'd also say that when it comes to the mirrored line between Vox and Alastor, it makes more sense to make them flow similar but not identically because that's just it; Alastor is hijacking and making a retort, it would be odd for the character to align completely when their relationship is adversarial. He's taking the message and trampling on Vox's toy. Vox's lines seem more clumsy because he is outwitted and outmatched, and not to mention flustered.
- It makes sense for Vox to talk so much and so pointlessly because he is flustered and obsessed; they ARE communicating something about him, but not musically in this case. I also think it's unnecessary to state you're unimpressed by his "fast talking". Rap is an established genre with its own strengths and I wouldn't consider it respectful to refer to it that way in that instance, so I would caution against saying that here. & I still don't think that it should be a firm requirement that every piece of a song from a musical be only singing. Even the "Belle" track from Beauty and the Beast is a great example of a musical song with frequent speaking as part of its flow.
- I think it's a disservice to call it poorly done here when you mention the "pivoted to video" part because he repeats himself; he's the definition of a two-faced talk show host in this song, so it makes sense for him to talk in circles to keep focus on whatever he thinks is a negative point against someone.
- I agree with you on the "chirping" bit; it doesn't fit him at all. However, the "Hold on" bit is when he actually stutters and interrupts/gets talked over, because that's the moment that he realizes what Alastor is about to say (because it seems to have validity)
- The suggestion for "Join his Troupe" doesn't fit Alastor at all and while it does rhyme, it doesn't flow well in execution.
- Coup de grace and "join his (cahh-st)" again does not fit his speaking style.
- Same with the cat and cream thing; why would Alastor specifically choose this wording? Most people do not know the phrase "choke a cat with cream", and it just doesn't flow well enough to excuse the change.
Like I mentioned before, my idea wasn’t that Vox shouldn’t be scattered or unhinged but that it would be better if they had some verses of him being confident so we’d have somewhere for his character to go. If you start your character off being insane / etc that means that they already lost before the song even started so there’s no reason to sing. They don’t have to mirror each other the entire time but what I’d want is:
- Confident Vox (that mirrors Alastor’s ending)
- Alastor’s interjection
- Spiralling Vox
- Duet
- Alastor’s original ending
Or something similar to that. Because the idea is you build up familiarity and then you break it Vs doing nothing familiar at all.
With the hijack thing, I think there’s probably something in the instrumental that would need to be adjusted (which is why most of the time I tend not to bother adding instrumental in my suggestions since you’d need to rewrite some of the things musically).
And this goes for mostly everything else to - it’s not that that’s the ONLY thing you can do but more so an example of how to make both lines rhyme. You could pretty much do anything there as long as “Welcome Home” and “Say Hello” actually rhyme. So with anything it’s “this is why this thing is a little weird, here’s an example”. It’s the tool you need to understand how to fix something but after that it’s pretty much up to you, what you’d do instead.
In terms of Alastor's speaking style, I'd argue that he's from New Orleans, they speak French. So the Coup De Grace thing shouldn't be too weird imo. But yeah that's why I gave a bunch of different suggestions, cause at the end of the day they are just examples of what could be. If we actually rewrote the song, we'd have to pick one obviously ^^
Personally I love “stayed gone” but I see your points
Thank you!
"Don't listen to a word he'd say" is embarrassing because I know why they did it. The correct tense would have put an "s" at the end, but they wanted the rhyme so badly they reworked the tense of the phrase, but not the whole song. I hit that wall a lot in writing, and the best choice is to give up on the rhyme if it doesn't fit the tense...don't do THIS.
Yeah that was personally confusing for me LOL. I’m glad someone else noticed.
It makes sense though? "Don't listen to a word he would say"
@@Claudia_Crimson_585 what OP means is that Vox saying “Don’t listen to a word Alastor WOULD say” is weird.
Because “stop giving him the time of day.” Means they have already heard Alastor speak. Like they’re already giving him the time of day. So it’s not “don’t listen to a word he would say” it’s “don’t listen to what he’s SAYING”
Ik this was posted a while ago, but there are so many comments saying that the mess ups in voxs lyrics are intentional to show his character being outclassed by alastor, but I think thats a bad thing bc we’ve just met vox and hes already being a buffoon. Shouldn’t villians have malice, at least in their opening song??? I get it was to hype up alastor but thats been done already, he’s not cooler bc he beat this idiot we just met
I come from your other video on respectless, and i must say, I am fascinated by your analysis and I’m so curious to listen to your other takes on other hazbin hotel songs
Thank you so much! I hope to be doing more soon
I was so thrown off when i first found out the lyrics are "brand new dawn" i always thought it was don, as in a mob boss. It makes more sense, doesn't it?
IT DOES MAKE MORE SENSE 😭😭😭😭😭😭
IT DOES MAKE MORE SENSE 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Stayed Gone has grown on me since the first time I heard it, but I'm not gonna lie I've always had reservations towards it. And though I don't pay much attention to rhyme scheme unless if it's like, particularly good or particularly bad, there were some things you mentioned that really do pin down why I'm not as in love with the song as everyone else is. Like the sing-talking and how it halts Vox and Alastor really one-upping each other.
I think Hell's Greatest Dad is the greater of the two Alastor rivalry songs since Alastor and Lucifer DO spend the entire song trying to one-up each other to ridiculous extremes, and singing it all the way through.
Oh good. It's not just me. _Everyone_ is praising this song, and my reaction was basically that dude from the trailer who said: "Wow, that was shit!"
THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME and Hunter. And they were coming for us in our reaction comments LMAO
The song was fine lol
@@Claudia_Crimson_585Are you going to argue with EVERYONE who disagrees with you LOL
I was also fairly disappointed in the lyrics. I thought Alastor's lyrics were just fine but man, not a fan of TV Man's lyrics. Which is really a shame because the instrumentation is gorgeous. You put into words what I could not.
I’m glad to hear I was able to do that! I think a lot of people feel “I know this is off on instinct but I don’t know exactly why” because human beings are very good at picking up on oral patterns or inconsistencies, but we may not be able to figure out exactly what they are without counting out syllables and such 🥰
I always assumed that "the sugar on the cream" was just a old timy frase i hadn't heard of before, i nwver realized they made it up.
Yeah, it just doesn't exist lol
Uhm yeah you can mash two sayings together
But you can always burn that bridge when you get to it.
Joke aside - the pod line? As a non-native speaker I did not get that one. I did not, in fact, think of "peas in a pod". I for some reasom thought of tadpoles.
I just want you to know that this made me snort aloud 😂😂😂😂😂
Yeah “peas in a pod” may be a little bit confusing. I didn’t consider that. Idk how common the saying is in other countries!
This is a wonderful breakdown! I remember enjoying the song the first time, but I remember finding some parts clunky and weird
It’s cool to see someone explain it nicely!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
The song still slaps though!
I really appreciate this video because this song felt off to me and I don't have the professional songwriting knowledge to know why without it being explained lol
I appreciate you! I'm so glad to hear this, thank you so much!!
Thanks for this, it was interesting to hear your opinions.
I dont know where these comments saying "sugar on the cream" is an English saying. I'm english and ive never heard anyone say that or heard it in older media. Alistor isnt even British lol. When I first heard the song I had a "wtf" moment when I heard that phrase, and assumed the writers were just trying to make him sound sophisticated and old-timey but it just came across as strange to me.
I’m glad to hear that I’m not alone 😂😂 I mean I’m not British but - I did look it up and nothing came up so I thought that was odd.
35:52-
what about
"Here's something Vox won't tell you/He asked me to join his crew"?
There's no neat terms of phrase other than that I think it could work.
edit: an alternative I just thought of is
"Here's some trivia for you/He asked me to join his crew"
While some of the lyrics were just plain dumb I kinda still love the song. But I also am just a huge fan of Christian Borle and his voice 😭
The vocal performances are fantastic!
Here’s something that I gave them the benefit of the doubt for because I also thought the song was messy on Vox’s side but Alastor’s was surprisingly clean in comparison, it had to be done on purpose. Then I thought about it, and I think this was kinda of a shot at the preformers for the median. Alastor is suppose to be the radio demon for the 30’s/40’s, for that time you had to have real talent, be able to actually sing, actually dance, and put in a lot of work before they let you near it because it was so expensive vs Vox who I think is more for the 2010’s and now which thanks to reality tv and CZcams allows a lot of talentless hacks have the spot light when a lot of them can’t do anything. I mean I know of several individuals off the top of my head who are in fact talentless but still have massive CZcams channels and release cds but can’t sing. Plus I don’t think Vox is a tv screen like people are claiming. I think he’s a computer demon, which would explain why Alastor only makes computer digs at him (except the tv is buffering) but that’s still kinda of a computer dig more than a tv dig. Now I know a counterpoint is going to be “well, it says tv on his shows.” And it does. But that’s Vox’s thing; he could just be lying. I mean there are several shows on the web that claim to be tv shows but have never broadcasted once. “But he says channel.” I mean yeah, but so does CZcams and technically that not true. They just marketed them as channels because it sounded better than landing pages and interiors pages. So I think the point was to show that Vox’s skill level was full of crap vs Alastor who is a real problem. True, they maybe should have done a clearer job if that’s the case.
I think the line 'now his medium is getting bloody rare' works since many of Hells citizens still are from way back. In contrast modern people and technologies coming along in the last few decades. Other than that I see what you're pointing out may not work properly. I'm only a music enthusiast, and english isn't my first language, so I and probably many others are just going on the fun beat and appreciate when something clever is detected.
So.. yeah. Love to watch you picking songs apart, even if we don't always agree it's always fun to learn new stuff. I get that you're highlighting the rhyme placements and why they do or don't work, what's considered a slant-rhyme or a true rhyme and so on... and I guess the numbers are either beats or syllable count? I would like if it got explained somewhere what is what and why it matters as I don't fully understand what's going on sometimes. Thanks!😊
Thank you for leaving a comment!! So my colour highlights are the rhymes. I start with red and go all the way down the rainbow, so I can see visually where the rhymes are. For example, my first rhymes are red “begin/ tune on in”. Then “gone/dawn/on” are orange. The purple highlights are for alliteration, which is when two words start with the same sound. “He hid” is alliteration, because you have the “H” on he and the “H” on hid.
The numbers are indeed syllable count! Syllable count basically is what helps music sound “poetic”. This is an oversimplification but you basically want your lines that are supposed to match each other - lines with the same rhymes at the end to also have the same amount of syllables. You can see this in our example with Poor Unfortunate Souls / Ursula.
Syllable count isn’t always the beats but they’re usually connected in some way. For example, if you sing something like “Re-pen-ted”, that’s always going to be 3 notes, because it’s three syllables. How long those notes are held for by the singer depends on the sheet music. But you’re always gonna need to write three notes down for that word. But sometimes, singers will do a “riff” or sing more notes/beats on a single word. If you’ve seen frozen for example, Elsa goes “I’ll rise at the break of dawn” and on “dawn” she goes up-down-up with her voice. That makes dawn one syllable, but three beats/notes.
Sorry if that doesn’t make a lot of sense, I wanted to try to figure out how to write this in an easy way. The reason why this becomes important is because music is written in a time signature. For example, a lot of music is written in 4/4 time. Where there are four beats per bar, and the quarter note is worth one beat. So four quarter notes will fill an entire bar.
Syllable count becomes important because if you do something like “To a new status quo”, that’s at least 6 notes. Whereas “When I’m done” in Alastor’s verse is 3 notes. That means Alastor’s lyrics in the exact same spot are only in 1 bar of music (3 notes out of 4 beats in a bar). But Vox’s lyrics are 6 notes out of 4 beats in a bar. This is why they sound strange, because they are cramming 6 notes where there’s only “room” for 4.
I don’t know what time signature the song is actually written in, but that’s just in theory to try to explain ^^
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch thanks for taking the time to explain. I know beats and syllables doesn't have to be synonymous in a song. There's a word for it, but I can't remember what it is at the moment. But I get what you're saying, what they're doing is a structure that is hard to follow even when you've listened to it a few times.
Again thank you for this. Also just out of curiosity, do you know any song that break the "rules" and still works? You don't have to answer that, but it would be interesting if you could. ✌️
Honestly, in terms of songs that break the rules, usually people who do this well are in rap music. One of my favourite songs of all time is called "Left for Dead Lullaby" by Calliope Mori, where she does this: czcams.com/video/_s21Yx0zK0I/video.html
Ti-me never heals (5_ she extends time into two syllables)
Your hell is all that's real (6)
The walls__ are fall__ing in on us, and yet (10)
Words like "regret" won't wet my lips (8)
There are moments I'd change if I could (9)
But searching for atonement does not ensure "good" (11)
There is just something about how she sings "and YET, words like reGRET won't WET my lips" that gets me every time. But the reason why I think this works is because of her "flow" in the song. Rap has a different structure compared to musical theatre and so it's not very jarring when she sings this to me. And something like "heals" and "real" to me sounds purposeful, vs being a mistake. In the video I talk about how rhymes get clunky when the word ends with a different stress sound, like "nowadays" and "way". But for me "heals" makes "real" stand out so much more afterwards, because it's the harshness contrasted with the desperation of "real". Same with "walls" and "falling" - she focuses a lot on the WALL and FALL instead of stressing the ing, so she makes it work somehow.
And the syllable count is uneven, but to me it feels like it's going up a set of stairs. Like "There are moments I'd change if I could" is one step, and "But searching for atonement does not ensure good" is like climbing the second step. So the inconsistent syllable count helps to give it a feeling of growth.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch awesome song! Added to my playlist. 😻
I feel like the chirping comment in the song was due to one of the writers possibly being from Canada or the northern states due to chirping being a common phrase in hockey for mocking/heckling someone while they are playing.
I’m Canadian but I’ve never heard that (though I’m not a sporty type person) 😂
That egg on vox's screen was really good.
Hahaha thank you. 😂 I’m glad someone laughed
My observations-
"While he hid in radio" does have "in" between the beats, making it like this:
1 2 3 (4)"in"(1) 2 3 4
That keeps the next line to every beat like this:
We pi-vo-ted to vi-de-o
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
Coup de gras is, I think, how it's spelled and the "s" is silent.
Other than that, I agree with most of what you say.
Coup de grâce is spelt like this so as far as I could tell listening to people pronounce it, it’s the “E” that was silent.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I've never heard it with the "s" sound at the end.
@@NightWorldWorshipper The phonetics for it are: kuː də ˈgrɑːs
I think what they want you to avoid is saying like, Coup De Gracie
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch Learn something new every day.
we actually read the "medium is getting bloody rare" as saying that what he puts out is undercooked; a series of supposedly "medium" dishes coming out rare, rather than an individual dish regressing somehow
I don’t think that helps at all 😭😭😭😭
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch LMAO so it goes
I like the talk show part but they should’ve sang it-
😭😭😭😭 I know like we are in a musical bestie
I like the think that the reason that Vox's lyrics don't quite work could be intentional: he's stepping into a song to slander Alastor, who's entire medium is around the audio, so Vox is essentially stepping into Alastor's wrestling ring and thinking he'll come out on top
Lol at first I disagreed with most points in this video, however I did respect that there were some slight structural issues that could have been improved on, and it's good to learn a bit more about the structure of musical theatre! I've always loved musicals, however generally I mainly pay attention to the compositional elements as my favorite parts of songs are the instrumentals/analysis of what's happening in the background, rather than the singing or lyricism itself.
When trying to arrange this song for both piano and guitar for a friend, I absolutely loved the small little background elements... But after hearing this vide and thinking on it, yeah the lyrics are a little questionable.
This might be a lot but I have thoughts.
- Vox's first verse, and most of the song for that matter, seems to favour assonance over rhyming, the O in hOme has the same vowel sound as hellO, quO and knOWs - wORkING and chIRpING also have similar vowel sounds - so it's not relying on strict rhymes. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but your critique doesn't seem to acknowledge assonance at all.
- In "To a new status quo" the ''To a" happens before the bar starts while "When I'm done" happens on the start of the bar, so while the syllable count is different, they are perfectly matched rhythmically, which fixes that issue.
- I initially would not blame them for forgetting that 'brand-new' can be hyphenated - a surprising number people do - but this is still a very odd turn of phrase either way.
- I'm in two minds about the talking bits. On the one hand they really bloat the song and really, REALLY could do with being sung instead, but on the other hand Vox's rhymes being scattered and incoherent while Alastor's are fairly neat says a lot about their dynamic and feelings in this sequence. Notice that during Vox's talking his rhymes get more structured as he gets his act together, that's pretty good characterisation. Vox's repetition might, MIGHT be a jab at the repetition of real news shows and if that's the case I can forgive that, that's funny.
- The term "his medium is getting bloody rare" is the same as saying "his medium is getting REALLY rare", bloody is used for emphasis here and the meat side of things is solely a gag. It's a visual pun, not a metaphor or comparison. You seriously overthought that one.
- I agree "while he hid in radio" needs an extra syllable, but "Hell's been better since he split" actually needs one more as well. Both those lines start at very late places during their bars which Alastor's don't, so if Vox even had "while ALI hid in radio" that would put the hID sound in the same place as pivotED in the verse (1,2,3,ID) and "Hell's been MUCH better since he split" would put the bettER in the same place as Alastor's sugAR sound. (1,2,3,4,ER)
- Literally nobody says "here's the sugar on the cream". They MIGHT be referencing having both sugar and creamer in a tea or whipped cream in tea, both of which are quite common to have, but I think the actual phrase is 'here's the cream on the tea', so as clever as it's trying to be, it is again a very unusual sentence. The part I have a problem with is why Alastor, who died in the 1930's, is even using 'that's the tea' in this context to begin with! I can buy that he'd know the word buffering and such, but he didn't even know the phrase 'ace in the hole', so why's he using 'that's the tea' here?
That's it, that's my thoughts. ^^
No hate to the creator, but as a theater major, I feel like you should understand the context surrounding a broadway song and the background for why these characters are signing what they are singing. Saying that what Vox sings is erratic and doesn't make sense is dumb because that's the point, he is compeltely insane and alastor's return drives him nuts so the confusing fast-paced talking is good in this context.
I feel like they could have done that better by having him sing less erratic though - because we see Vox manipulate Valentino quite easily moments before this song happens. The issue with the song is just that it’s too short and doesn’t give the impression of stakes - if Vox is already off the handle Alastor has already won. Vox should have been coming out strong at first, and only lost his cool after Alastor started to take his audience away.
Yeah this song fell flat for me, thanks for explaining why!
Thank you for watching!!
I loved Stayed Gone but I get your take as an aspiring poet, can you do More Than Anything next? I have so much beef with their lyrics omg, so far I've noticed lack of flow, horrible stressed syllables, lines that simply don't make sense, awful rhyme scheme (starting "in the end" for Lucifer, AAB; starting "in the end" for Charlie, ABC???)
Wow, you care way too much about rhyming.
It’s not necessarily the rhymes themselves but you need to have a consistent structure. Some Disney songs don’t have a lot of rhymes but the ones they do have are consistent!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch why do you need consistent structure?
I explain this in the video, but:
1. Structure allows our brains to recognize patterns, which is what makes a song catchy. So in this case, the music (as in, the instrumental), is catchy, but the vocal melody and the lyrics are not. So you have this weird clashing where some people may remember the music but not be able to remember the words, or the song itself may just end up being forgotten.
2. Musical theatre songs especially rely on familiarity to suck the audience in, and then when the audience is comfortable subvert their expectations. If you have no structure, you can't lull the audience into that security and so you can't break their expectations in an interesting way. So the audience is less likely to be able to follow along when your structure is a mess, which means you can't build to larger pay off. If the audience can't "snap into" your song, they will either forget it when they leave the show or not get invested in those characters in the moment. So structure doesn't just help with long term investment, but short term investment.
3. There's actually scientific studies about this - a listener's interest is maintained through repetition + new material, not just repetition OR constant new material. If you repeat the same things over and over, people get bored. but if you constantly change things, listeners can't get invested.
It basically comes down to how our brains are wired at all levels, and the fact that because musical theatre songs deliver information, it's more important to use those "memory techniques" and investment techniques to get that information across.
Rare Ya Got Trouble mention 👀
i have 0 skills in lyricism and while i enjoyed the song, something just felt off! im glad im not weird or anything 💀
I’m glad I’m not weird too! I really thought it would just be me!
5:57 well clearly Alastor just doesn't need to rhyme in order to sound cool
😂 musical theatre is about rhyming to sound cool though!!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch nuh uh
What do you think it’s about?
not all songs need to rhyme though,so maybe they wanted it to rhyme and not rhyme at the sametime to mix things up,I don't know,I'm not a song writer XD I don't know what the rules are of song writing is
Super underrated channel. I think you should try to provide a replacement line every time you have a specific complaint or suggestion. Makes certain criticisms seem nebulous when no tangible alternative is given. Overall, this is one of the few channels I think the people working on the show should actually bother to look through. Keep it up, please.
Thank you so much! Yeah I try to think of suggestions as much as possible, so I’ll make sure to keep giving them!!