Thirisadai (DLC unique unit quicktake)
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- Quick overview of the Dravidian's new naval unit - the Thirisadai.
0:10 Dravidian's naval bonuses and tech tree
1:15 Stats vs other ships
1:52 How its attack works
3:00 Equal resources against other ships
5:15 Final thoughts
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
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Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
If the turtle ship is the war elephant of the sea, this must be the battle elephant
Yeah that makes sense
and longboats are the elephant archers
@@TomasMiles longboats would be more like cav archers, no?
@@jramseier lol I've just noticed this reply out of nowhere, seems my son is posting comments while logged in on my account xD
@@TomasMiles Cute xD
i'd argue the turtle ship is number one there. i love how you can kinda see the individual scales break off.
Yep that was the deciding factor for me. The Thirisadai does have it's sails collapse into themselves with all sorts of nice material folding, but it just doesn't compare to that slow-crumbling-turning-into-total-catastrophe that the turtle ship has going for it.
Also to remember with its weaknesses is that it's part of a civ with *everything* available at the docks, so even if you're facing one counter you can usually get something else to counter the counter, for a counter counter reach around
What surprises me is,.. it's actually balanced? like, being a unique unit you'd expect it to be underperforming or overperforming, either it's better to stick to the normal units or it's better to spam the new unit, either way you are going to expect it to be buffed or nerfed in a future patch,.. but this one? it's actually pretty good as it is!
To me, it's as good as if it was part of the base game's all civ units like the Galleon/Fireship, Champion/Halberdier, Arbalester/Skirmisher, Hussar/Paladin.
Well, it's pop efficient and doesn't need upgrades.
@@satyakisil9711 but its in imperial so it compensates the lack of élite upgrade (like the condottiero).
@@satyakisil9711 i think this is the main takeaway. it isnt overpowering wrt to resource cost, but also it isnt too slow to move or produce and does reasonably well in most case without taking the niche of specialized warships like the korean or the viking unique unit. plus no need for extra upgrades like the condotierro. overall good design and balance so far though not particularly exciting either
@@zachariastsampasidis8880 it will be strong if used in a map like Baltic to blockade the coast, allowing more vils to make better army to push on land. So I see it having its own perks. Also, good against rams.
It's almost as if the Dev's consulted with Spirit of the Law (and the larger community) ahead of this DLC release. Oh wait..
You can also use the size of the sails to hide anything from a smaller boat to a castle from view.
I just played with the Dravidians yesterday and Thirisadai seems like a versatile ship, capable of countering not just galleons, but other ships as well.
How are they against buildings?
almost like it op, right?
@@Alvaro89Rus definitely not. Watch the video it explains why and what counters them
@@rustyknight1572 +9 bonus damage against buildings on the top of 8+4 attack, neat!
@@varunmanjunath9123 thank you most kindly for answering. Interesting!
best water unit because it looks cool
like seriously
look at that thing
that's fucking cool
10/10
Its a chonker for sure! THICC WITH 2 c’s
Reminds me of one of the ships in AoE3 that's a literal building on a ship, the Tekkousen. XD
@@OsakaLover War Canoe is a better comparison. Just a giant War Canoe.
@@OsakaLover looks more like the xebec.
@@OsakaLover more like that Big Battleship from the British you only can get via a card.
But yes, the Chinese sure has the weirdest looking one In AOE 3
The last comment about population efficiency is an interesting one. It would be interesting to see how changing the numbers affects the result or how putting them in a choke affects the result. Would not be surprised if fires and demos become a lot less efficient against well-used Thirisadai.
Fires maybe, but since demo's make way by blowing up, I feel they will still be cost-effective. Them having less range and being slow just works perfectly for demo's.
@@longbow857 if you get a few cheap fires in front I think it's fine... as in, just spread them out. Although the reduced range of Thiris is a bit annoying there I'd think.
After playing AOE2 for 15+ years, I just learned Dry Dock effects ship's movement speed not only +10 transport capacity. Wow
I believe that might have been added in one of the latest patches sir, so your deduction skills are not at fault.
@Fabian MEDINA MEDINA oh so trade cogs got buffed?
@@ivanstrydom8417 No, Dry Dock has always increased ship speed.
The Thirisidai remimds me of the turtle ship.
Just more straight forward in its stats and costs to be 2 galleons in 1 ship. While the turtle ship is rather unique.
Thing is that in imperial, resources are not that big of a bottleneck. Because they are so population efficient, one player just can't muster enough firepower to defeat it.
I think heavy demolition ships are actually quite helpful in this regard. They trade nearly one-to-one* in bulk, and quickly free up population space. A fire and demolition ship army will likly be able to keep it at bay and drain the Dravidian's of their resources. Very powerful, but not necessarily overwhelming.
(*In the video, you see 10 Thirisadai fall to just 11 demos.)
I'd youre in imp prolly enemy is in imp too and ff ships punk these things very comfortably and with each loss you loose more resource.
I'm not convinced on this unit. Especially 1v1
@@abhishekparmar6702 1v1 rarely reach post imperial. First of all good luck at defending your shores from powerful bonuses dravidians get in feudal age
@@abhishekparmar6702 I have never had a 1v1 make it past early Imperial, and even that's usually a result of an Imperial rush. Elite Unique units and Trebuchets/Bombards are about it.
It's interesting to see how one of you talks in such definite terms (super feudal pressure etc) like we have few 100k matches' data to fall back on. And second one (and to some extent first commenter) talks about not reaching imp. Well if game never reaches imp, this ship never gets used 1v1, and hence would it matter if it sucks or is it great?
Apparently, the Thirisadai has both the Ship and Turtle Ship armor classes.
It has +8 against anti-ship attacks, which why Caravels and Galleons do miserably against them. However, it has 0 Turtle Ship armor, which is why the +3 anti-turtle-ship attack Fire Ships do tear straight through them.
The fact that you don't need to upgrade means you can play it like Condottiero. Fast imperial and straight to bombard enemies shore..
Just remember that bombarding the shore is harder with less range.
@@Salnax of course, bombarding the shores is better with cannon galleon. But what I'm talking about is to secure the shore lines so that enemies couldn't build more dock.
@@Salnax that's the neat thing about fast imperial: it also gives you relatively easy access to cannon galleons. And Thirisadai do SO well against castle age ships, it's almost a war crime 11
I've loved this quick take series! Good work SotL
Besides the UU ship their bonuses all are feudal - castle targeted, but you have to keep in mind that is the main phase why e.g. Italians are a good water civ, because that is the time when you need to establish water control and not let the opponent come back into the game, so I wouldn't underrate the bonuses for the Dravidians
I'm surprised there are not more unique naval units to spice things up. But also curious because by the Imperial Age irl, the Portuguese for instance were completely curb stomping other navies out of the water half a world away.
The thing is, Thirisadai does not really exist, it is based on a Wikipedia section which has been confirmed to be fake.
The choosing of the model is not good either, it is modelled after the Javanese Borobudur ship, which is not a particularly big ship. Outrigger ship like that loses the efficiency of its outrigger above the length of 10 m. The 2 reconstructions of Borobudur ship are only 19-20 m in length.
I agree, the Portuguese Caravel, Viking longboat, Korean Turtleship and Dravidian Thirisadai definitely add some fun to the water battles! Cna't wait for more!
@@cicak2404 The specifics of the "Thirisadai" might not be credible as it is described by a poet on a voyage to Sumatra, but I guess we can let it pass as the Tra-vidian thalassocracy did have the world's most feared navy in their times.
Same way Polish Obuchs are historically inaccurate, since their unique weapons had a totally different usage...
The way it’s projectiles fire is really satisfying, especially when they are destroying galleons
This unit has some SHAKEY historical accuracy (a really well formed reddit post about it exists). But the unit from all accounts seems very balanced, and looks very usable.
I did see that reddit. I also read the comment and it's said that this name came from a Dravidian female poet of the same name who first wrote about this ship when they were going to the expedition towards SE Asia. Yes the reddit post made some really good points but thing is we don't know their way of ship building
So basically, the Thirisadai is a Naval Battle Elephant as a way to have population efficiency while slowly pushing the water line forward.
Fun fact: The Thirisidai is a completely made up ship class based on a badly sourced Wikipedia page.
Are you for real because that’s freaking hilarious
Also kinda scary to think how easy it really is to “change” ancient history
Yeah, seems like it was just made up in 2008. There is a great debunk of the Wikipedia article on Reddit.
Quick! Someone make up some mesoamerican style units before the next expansion comes out!
Mind sending me a link lol?
I find it interesting that SoTL talked about the history of Wootz steel for a few minutes, including giving an anonymous quote that was clearly full of shit, but here we get nothing.
One nice point with this thing is how easy it is to mass. Not in number of units but strength of units. A dock can make them almost as fast as Galleons, without the need for upgrades, but they're >2x stronger. They are the elephants of the sea.
I want Longships to transport foot units as well as attack!!! And for the Beserks to generate gold when attacking buildings. Lose arbs and make Vikings a proper infantry + naval civ!
I agree, in essence the longboat should be downgraded to a lighty armed transport ship but with every additional unit inside it gets more arrows (like how a caste works) and move faster (like how the ram works), that would make the longboat a great raiding unit.
And the berserker creating gold during raids against buildings would be like the tartar kipcheck (forgot how to write it) creates gold when attacking units
@@Kakariki73 exactly.
I think it would be cool if it could garrison berserkers, and berserkers could repair longships.
@@yahm0n smels a bit like Age of Mythology where the Nordic soldiers are the ones that build and repair 😉
The only channel where I always click the like button before I click play.
Feels a bit like the Condottiero, in the perspective that you can reach Imperial Age and have some strong option to create and throw in the water as soon as possible, even if you ignored the dock upgrades for ships, doesn't it?
5:06 this kind of analysis is why I subscribe
Giving up water in castle age for a strong boom into early imp and then back to water with those bad boys (without needing to invest in upgrades) sounds scary.
Turtleship has the coolest destruction animation imo.
Did not expect the long boat to win. Seems like the devs really understand the balance
With equal resources. They get bodied late game by being squishy. Team games are where this civ and ship thrive.
As always, excellent thorough analysis from the master!
Love that they're adding another ship.
I come on to YT to find a video about this exact unit and BOOM! SOTL does not disappoint
Honestly I love the fact that it just looks pretty cool. I always love naval unique units just because they look cool and refreshing
Tripping over just how BIG they are since they're supposed to be _dingies._
I think the death animation needs some work, the collapse of the boat itself is fine, but when it sinks it doesn't look like it's sinking it looks as if it's falling, just slowing down the animation right around the moment it starts to descend would probably be a smart move, but that's my opinion.
its size compared to other warships is giving it an almost comedic look
Id love to see a vid on the camel scout!
Always split caravels and position at least one group perpendicular to the enemy line of battle. If you are not able nor willing to do this, you should probably stick with galleons.
It bugs me beyond belief that with every further patch, the Portuguese, widely considered a "only-good-on-water" civ, gravitate further and further below the "not even top3/5/10" at this stage.
I dunno, It seems mostly ok on mixed maps. I've seen it used multiple times in the recent Wandering Warriors Cup Tournament. So it seems to do ok on nomad type maps.
In their defense, there's probably balance changes coming
@@dojelnotmyrealname4018 Don't give me that hope, it's been years now. Just let them have Shipwright or fast fire ships for water, or finally the hussar/paladin line complete for land. Something. Anything. Nerf the gold discount to match if that's what it takes
Absolute UNIT!
tl;dr: a fat galleon that counters galleon, most important factor being that u spare pop space compared to galleons
Good looking ship, cool destruction animation. I'm glad they added another naval civ.
Oh may I mention that a Reddit article pretends that the ship is not historical and that the said naval power is based on fraudulent sources...
Greed from game devs might doom the historical side of the game for the sake of diversity.
Forgot to test their performance against their true counter: Samurai with their anti-UU bonus
the thirisadai has the coolest destruction due to it's sails
well, they look cool, so I'm sold
Interesting. Superficially it looks OP but is actually quite balanced.
Dravidians came to be the 3rd nation beside Spanish and Byzantines to have full water tech tree. All other nations miss either one tech or some elite ship. And, btw, everyone is speculating about Bengalis being next OP water civ since regen
its objectivly the turtle ship with the best sinking animation:)
That thir is a dai i'd like to have on my team
I play casually and for the pretty visuals so when I saw this in game, it blew my mind.
I would have liked to see Spanish Elite Cannon Galleons separately since the extra attack speed and accuracy from ballistics changes them so much.
words cant express how much of an underrated channel you are
its just so sad that the game youre making videos about isnt currently trending and popular, you deserve at the very very least a mil subs for the effort you put in your videos, hope you reach your goals man
bruh, how can you call one of the most popular aoe2 youtube channel underated
@@Ainsley_the_meat_rubber im not talking about how popular he is in the aoe2 community, im talking about generally in the youtube community, he's criminally underrated for the effort he puts in his videos and still making them super entertaining with subtle yet super effective humor
he deserves more
@@greatesterrboi408 im am talking about how popular he is in the aoe2 community because thats all he does.
@@Ainsley_the_meat_rubber ok but as a content creator he is underrated
Turtle ship destruction animation is the best
Just played an Islands 1v1 game this afternoon and this unit performed very well vs Viks Longboats although I mixed some fast fires between. However, I won water battle when built some of them 💪
Viking longboats replaces fire ships for that civ, so it makes sense that they win.
2:33 I think I haven't seen that red bell icon next to the current age on the top bar before. Correct me if I'm wrong...
This is a unit addition done right. It's strong enough to be interesting and useful but it doesn't overpower most of the old units.
It’s nice to see the population efficiency offsets their large size. Otherwise, I imagine it would get _very_ crowded while trying to micro them.
I can see it as a decent unit to get back onto water if you’ve been pushed onto land in castle age. Especially as the opponent has likely gone galley line winning water.
Thanks!
Here's a video idea, why does age of empires 2 handle multiple projectiles in this way with one primary arrow and the rest doing 1 damage?
I don't think I've seen this in any other game nor does it make logical sense. Unless it was specifically meant to work that way where the primary arrow represents a ballista and the other arrows represent archers on a multi weapon unit. But this is not the case because it isn't explained anywhere how these multi shots work outside of SotL videos and most players would assume that either every arrow in the volley does the listed damage or the listed damage is divided equally between all of the arrows. Never would I have assumed that this would have been the way it is.
Visually I do not know why they went for it, but mechanically it is to counter heavy armoured opponents. Just like how chi-co-nu are decent against rams.
Looks cool to me
But how microable are they? They are slower than galleons, does that mean that you can't kite fire or demos?
Against a micronerd galleons can hit and run them. So I feel you always need some Fireships with them.
One yes, multiple incomings, no.
Thirisadai have the coolest sinking animation by far, and the Turtle Ship, with its iron plates bobbing up and down, just looks silly.
I'm not sure if the not balancing different resources and not including shipwright was sarcasm but I was very confused for a second there.
"It is a great tool, in the *belt* of an already-strong *navel* civilization."
Good morning sirs!
Would have been nice to see a 60-70 ship battle (adjusted for value) on an actual generated map to show the benefit of population efficient units.
I don't really like any of the ship destruction animations. They all look like the ships just collapse like they're not held together with anything.
I've always been a fan of Viking being broken
its like a weird mix of korean Turtle Ships and viking Longboats
I like it
Please make a video in which you don't make soldiers so you can only attack with villagers. Age of empires 2 definitive edition
he was made to RULE THE WAVES ACROSS THE SEVEN SEEEAAAAAS!
Please bring back your opening song I miss it so much
The best destruction animation is thirisadai for sure! Easily the best!
I wonder whether sth will ever pop up and take the turtle ship down from the number 1 ship hunter in the game
I would have liked to see how focus firing affected the matchup against fire ships
My summary: its a stronger galeon that is easier to counter with fireships and demo ships (because it is slower).
I've played through all the campaigns now on hard and i must say the biggest winners from this patch in my opinion are the Chakram throwers and these bad boys. If you can mass these there is nothing that can stand up against them. 30 of these can easily take down a couple hundred galleons and fast fires over the course of a couple of minutes.
If the Galleon is the "archer" naval unit, this is the "elephant archer". Good counter to other archers, but getting swarmed by melee units is still a problem. I've had a lot of success mixing them into a more standard navy composition. Fire ships, Thirisadai, and Galleons combined gives a lot of value on attack-move, as they all have different ranges and end up attacking all at once, and the most fragile unit naturally ends up in the back.
Wouldn't replacing the fire ships with demo ships be better as far as counters go? Since your team comp has no good counter to fire ships asside from fireship v fireship fights.
@@dojelnotmyrealname4018 Each of those ships I included has a different range. That's how they end up countering fire ships. You can have maybe one line of fire ships attacking my navy at once, but I have a line of fire ships, another line of Thirisidai, and yet another of Galleons, all shooting at once. They win simply with the sheer volume of damage coming out compared to the enemy. My units aren't stumbling over each other to get into range, but your fire ships are. My fire ships are really just there to soak damage.
it says sieve, not civ in the subtitles around 0:25 and later as well.
Ngl , listen . You gotta just trust me on this. This ship. YES this ship, reminds me of that elven Ship from Warcraft 2. If you played warcraft 2, you know what I mean. Kinda looks like thaat xD I dunno , maybe my memory is fuzzy, but legit that kinda reminds me of it. This ship makes me feel nostalgic.
Wasn't the Elven Destroyer more of a trimaran than a big honking warship?
Unless you're referring to the Battleship but that thing has a big metal plate on the front
I really like your videos, but on this one I'm kinda confused as to why you did not put more emphasis on not having an upgrade cost like all the elite ships have. Not only does it give you a quick resource boost compared to Longboats or Turtle ships, but you can also skip the Galleon upgrade. If you switch to the Thirisadai you always have that advantage over any other civ.
So a pop-space bonus hidden in the unit instead of a bonus basically.
Maybe the damn Turtle Ship wouldn't be so slow if it had a sail like it's supposed to.
Not needing to upgrade it is probably going to be its greatest strength
ive never understood naval stuff in this game, cold you do a guide
love it. looks like a usable but not OP ship!
Actually they might never be used as why go for them if you have galleon fully upgraded and is cheaper
@@atari8603 because theyre more cost effective than galleons
Turtle ships are the number 1 in my eyes, despite how I get kited
Turtle ship has coolest death
I wonder why they didn't add death animations to normal warships and fireships
The last mission againts sirvijaya shows the potential, but the are really weak vs firebots.
I Said that you forgot the best naval civ in the game for the Clash, the Byzantines
Hey SOTL, with maps like Land Nomad or MegaRandom sometimes pitting army units against navy, I would love to see you dive into the relationship between land and sea units fighting. Like I heard T90 say pikes get bonus damage vs ships?
also, it apparently never actually existed, or at least there's no evidence whatsoever for it existing. it was all based off of a section of a wikipedia article that was fabricated wholesale.
Too bad most water battles are already decided by Castle Age. No such thing as a comeback mechanic in Imperial Age on water unless you're Portuguese and you can create a stalemate. Feitoria OP in ultra-long games.
One thing that I think needs to be done is to make some kind of "Onager ship" that's available to most civilizations. This would basically be a ship that attacks like a Mangonel or Onager, dealing loads of splash damage at range to enemy War Galleys or Galleons. Of course, it'd have to be very slow, have minimum range, and have a high cost and long build time. Something like this would definitely help de-stagnate water battles, IMO.
Clearly the thirisadai wins in the destruction animation. only i wish the debris would stay on water a lil longer like the caravels
Turtle ship best animation
Great video as always but I miss the old intro
So... If this ship somehow gets massed on a mostly water map you end up bulldozing almost any other navy. After that they can smash docks and coastal buildings with what range they do have.
Turtle ship death animation #1