Single Action Troubleshooting
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Discussion of the parts in the Single Action style guns as to which ones wear, break, and what issues are caused. Relates to the more traditional Single Actions of the colt design; i.e. the Percussion and Single Action Army. Only telling what can be problems can occur when some parts fail - not how to repair the guns.
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This was an extremely informative video. The presentation was also excellent - time efficient without rambling, irrelevant tangents, or glossing over relevant things.
Thank you.
Thanks Michael, always appreciate hearing that the information was well received. Speaking to basically only the camera isn’t easy for me, but I try to “stay on target “. O.R.
You are very sharp I can completely take down and trouble shoot any rifle or shotgun. Especially military rifles. I served thirty years in the United States Army twelve in the Ranger Regiment. So it was my business to know. I have a good deal of milsurp rifles all in good to very good condition. I purchased in the early to mid eighties. My point is you have mastered this type of firearm. It's a pleasure to watch videos.
Thanks so much coming from someone that has served. I have a lot yet to learn from folks such as yourself and also the school of hard knocks. I'll bet you are glad you got the weapons then. Enjoy them as no doubt others are envious. O.R.
I have an Uberti SSA that I bought in 1973 and subsequently had a broken hand spring. It was near impossible to get repair parts in the 70s and they wanted me to return the gun to have a new hand fitted so I made a replacement spring from a piece of seatbelt retract spring and it is still working some 50 years later. Also it has a slightly modified Colt bolt/trigger spring.
Yes, if it were to be replaced with the new part there’s a chance that the part would be needed to be fitted. Replacing just the spring as you did solved the problem. 👍😁. O.R.
Absolute gold , thanks for sharing , these are great easy to follow videos , cheers big ears from down under
Good thanks I need simple brake down on parts. This help me a lot saving this video 👍🏼
Very informative,thanks for uploading OR.
Thank you for the video. Great information. I have my cap and ball revolvers out inspecting them as you went thru it. I do have one that the bolt is coming up early and sure enough, the hand has wear.
Glad you found the video interesting. Don’t remembered saying much about what the results are with wear on the hand, but you nailed one for sure. It’s interesting that as parts wear, the timing gets messed with, but they continue to work (usually) until some spring gives up the ghost. O.R.
A very erudite explanation of the working of the single action Colt, I have found that the major problem with modern reproduction percussion guns is that the main spring is way too soft, an original Colt 1860 I have has a hammer draw weight of 12 lbs, whereas a repro is usually circa 4 lbs, this causes the hammer to blow back on ignition and drop the spent cap into the action. The other thing that can cause problems in the original design is the hand spring, this can easily break causing problems, Uberti have completely overcome this in there SAA by having a coil spring and plunger system which pushes the hand forward, it is unlikely that this will fail as frequently as the small leaf spring, although that, if properly hardened and tempered should last 100 years! Many thanks for posting this! Chris B.
Thanks Chris. I have seen this on the SAA Uberti and maybe some others. Excellent for the gun, but one would think if in the Percussion, the small spring and plunger would rust up or possibly get lost during a good cleaning. Seems I have had less problems with this hand spring then in the past, maybe things are improving in the metal treatment. Thanks for the view. O.R.
Yes, the originals are very stiff. Too stiff maybe. It does wear out the trigger and hammer full cock ledge faster. But it does prevent blowby. However proper nipples with smaller flash holes definitely improve the blowback situation.
I have used carberator return spring in multiple type single action repairs trigger return, cyl stop with out fall.
Great idea and information. O.R.
This is a great vid. Thanks!
very good tutoriol. Thanks!!!
Really enjoy the content. keep up the good work - Dave.
Thanks Dave. O.R.
I needed this information 30 years ago when I owned Armi San Marco’s…
Great video
Nice video! Thanks.
Thank you very much.
👍
Good show
Have you had any exp. with 1870 open top, Uberti, mine is in for repair? Action is weird.
No experience with the open top. I believe the action should be identical to the 1860, so it should function the same. Again, this is my guess. O.R.
the hammer notches are in a different place, half cock is forward a full cock is farther back.
This is just what I needed to learn. I just bought an 1893 Colt 45 that sat in a desk for 100 years. It's not working properly and I need to learn how to fix it. Thank you for teaching me. Can I buy the spring kit?
Thanks for the comment and congrats on your find. No replacement spring kits that I know of for those first generation colts. Issue is that the springs are attached to other parts like the bolt or the hand. Even the simplest one does two jobs, trigger and bolt tension. Original parts that contain the springs are expensive and may or may not be “drop in” because the part they are attached to effects timing. The spring on the hand can usually be replaced. The bolt has an arm that is sort of a spring because it has to be kept against the hammer so the hammer cam can activate the bolt to release and engage the bolt in the cylinder notches. I’m curious about the gun’s symptoms. Good luck with the project 👍. O.R.
You didn't go over wedges? Do you have a video on fitting wedges?
No. This vid only tried to cover the internal workings. None on fitting wedges, but I believe some others do. I'll make a note that a short video on what I know could be useful to some folks. Thanks. O.R.
Nice
as far as the hand spring breaking. there is another option. it involves drilling a hole from the back into the hand channel in the exact points the spring would engage the hand. then you drop in a pin with a spring and wha-bam, back in business :D
Have seen that done on some of the SAA's, and that fix should work on the percussion guns.
Way to go
Thanks for this video. A friend has a 1996 colt saa and its quite stiff to pull back the hammer. The previous owner said its due to only being shot 10 times. Any ideas?
I wouldn’t take much stock in the “only shot ten times” (which is probably true) as the reason. That could be the case if the cylinder turns hard when loading due to a very tight fit on the arbor (pin going through the cylinder). The main spring that drives the hammer is notorious for being overly strong. If loosening the screw that secures it to the trigger guard (use a screwdriver that fits because they are usually tight) lightens the pull, then this is probably the reason. Some folks put leather between the guard and spring. Others grind the spring on the sides, keeping the taper the same shape. A good option is google SAA spring kit. Wolf gun springs probably a good choice. Just my thoughts from what you have described. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thanks Old Ranger. Which screw is it that I should loosen? Is it one of the 3 on the side?
@@markim9728 Not those. The back of the grip by the hammer are two. They are recessed slightly into the blackstrap. There is also one at the bottom of the grip. With those three removed the strap (and grip if one piece wood). If the grip(s) are two pieces then the first thing is to remove screw that holds them. And then the other three. With the back strap removed there’s a screw towards the bottom of the trigger guard that holds the mainspring. That’s the target. Checking internet for parts diagrams could help. O.R.
Quick question on my 1873 Saa revolver the problem I am having is when I slow cock the hammer it does just fine into the 1st notch and 2nd half cock notch of hammer, but when I get closer to the full notch the hammer binds and does not fully lock out into the full cock notch position into the hammer. Also when I cock the hammer hard and fast then everything works just fine and everything locks into position with no problems. Any troubleshooting ideas would be greatly appreciated? I'm thinking it is either the pawl or the sear not fully engaging into the full cock hammer notch when I pull the hammer slowly down. If I don't here from you soon then I do have the Colt Saa gun manual to refer to the troubleshooting pages in order to figure it out. Hope to hear from you soon and GOD Bless and great video by the way.
Once the bolt gets out of its home in a cylinder notch, (which is working), the hand’s job is to rotate the cylinder by engaging the whatever we’ll call the he things on the cylinder end. During a fast cocking, the initial cylinder momentum can keep ahead of what the hand needs to do,during a slow cock where the full job relies on the hand and the notches (some wear here makes it it job harder I would assume). These single actions will of course wear out parts, but by far the springs are major weak points. That spring on the hand is necessary to keep the hand pushing in the right place. A busted one will not usually allow any cylinder rotation, a weak or slightly broken one “could” cause something like you are describing. Of course I could and probably are dead wrong, but at least part of my brain came up with something that sounds good on “paper” (boy have things changed in my lifetime). O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you oldranger3044 for your great info and will put this information into use and eventually figure it out. Thank you sir and GOD Bless. 🙋
Finally figured out the problem a few weeks ago and took the 1873 colt saa fully apart and come to find out on the section of the base of hammer where the roller bearing is located that glides back and forth on the hammer main spring. The pin that holds in that bearing was barely sticking out about .02" thousands. So I took it to the bench vise with leather in place and knocked the pin in flush. Lapped it with 1,000 grit emery cloth, polished it with rubber tip and felt bob tip with green polishing compound. Then hit it with some oil and wiped it down real clean and reinstalled. From there now it works like a charm. It pays to check every nick and cranny of gun to see where the problem is at. 😁 Now the action has no more binding problems and the action is sweet and smooth as honey. 😃
Meant .02" thousandths of an inch.
@@fuzzie567 Thats great, thanks for the update. Possibly it was catching on something not allowing full motion during slow cocking, wouldn’t have guessed that. Anyway, satisfaction is figuring out what is wrong, and being able to fix it. O.R.
I have a Great Western that needs some attention
Hoping you can stir me in right direction. I have an Uberti 1873 cattlemen that was made in 1973. Uberti went through a retooling in the early 2000's. The bolt they now sell is smaller and shorter arms on it. The bolt i currently have is wornout. The one arm is paper thin and no longer rides the cam o. The trigger. I have tried Numric and VTI. Do you know anyone that still has or can even make or modify a bolt that will fit this pistol. Thank You. Gabe.
Boy, that’s an interesting one. I have a Uberti that was made in the 60’s, so I’m going to have a look inside too compare bolts with the current production. If this happens to slip my mind, hit me with another comment. Dixie Gun Works has been in business for more years than I care to think about, might try them. I’m planning to check my Uberti. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 can send you pictures of the one the pistol currently has and Uberti new style next to each other even caliber measurements just cant figure out on here how to send. If you do want to see send me an Email i can send to. Thanks for you interest and help.
@@garygabrielle1056 Right, I don’t know how to exchange pics either. I’m going to check out mine. It surprises me that Uberti changed that.
@@garygabrielle1056 I took a couple of my Uberti’s apart and found little difference. Then, I re-read your post and realized I was”digging “ in the wrong place. You have SAA’s, and when I see Uberti, my mind jumps to black powder stuff. I was starting to think something didn’t make sense, and now I get it. So, I don’t have an older Uberti SAA, but checked the bolt in a newer one and compared to a colt SAA it has shorter arms by about 50 thousand. The colt .010 narrower and.040 longer ( .020 each direction). The colt and the black powder Uberti are very close. The hole on them is a little small for the screw pin. I think there might be a good chance that either could be made to work. Getting the hole right might be a challenge, but so is life. Hope this gives you some info. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 thank you.
I have a new 1858 new army revolver, my cylinder is over rotating cause chamber misalignment, will shorting the hand fix that?
If you have a Uberti, then replacement parts are more expensive than Pietta in the event that the wrong part is modified and messed up. Just something to be aware of. A normal hand length should rotate the cylinder slightly past the point where the bolt locks the cylinder. If it becomes too short then only the momentum of the rotating cylinder will move the cylinder far enough for the bolt to lock it. I am suspicious that the bolt is not being released quick enough by the arm of the bolt that rides the cam of the hammer. Shortening that would cause the bolt to come up quicker and lock the cylinder. Too short and the bolt will not unlock the cylinder when cocking for the next shot. Try rotating slow and listen to see when the bolt snaps up to lock the cylinder. Also, if the bolt is a little thick (wide) it might not be able to fit deep enough into the cylinder notches. If I was betting, I would say shortening the hand would not solve it because it is the bolt going into the cylinder that stops the cylinder from over rotation, not because the hand can’t push it further. Hopefully this helps and that you get it operating. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I apologize I put that the wrong way, the timing of the gun is spot on, however when the cylinder is locked up the chamber is misaligned with the barrel in the over rotation direction with the bolt fully engaged.
The alignment of the chamber is off by a very concerning amount, I have always shot colts and this is my first Remington but I have never had a mid alignment this bad on a colt.
If it will help I could post a video to my channel showing how far off the alignment is. I took the gun apart and only installed the bolt and the cylinder and with me hand locking it up it’s still way off, I think the cylinder might be badly cut from the factory
@@funkmonkeyfun Thanks for the update. That’s interesting. I just checked 4 of mine, and two had similar issues only they were locked a bit short from what I could tell. I just checked with a 3/8 dowel that had a sharp cut off, and it would hang up when riding the barrel side when it arrived at the cylinder. How much misalignment is difficult to say. Even with the forcing cone it can’t help accuracy. I have an older 51 Pietta (36) that has the same issue. I put in another cylinder and it didn’t change. I believe the slot in the frame is off. Now I’m curious about shooting my 58’s that have the issue and comparing with the ones that don’t (it’s an accuracy thing). Be interested to know what you find out. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 as much as mine is misaligned I’m definitely concerned I’m gonna crack the frame, I have a dowel rod I used to check my 44s and it won’t enter the cylinder at all so I believe I threw $329 in the trash because I don’t wana start dumping tons of money into cylinders and possibly a new frame.
This is the first Pietta I have ever had a problem with so I guess I’m lucky in that regard, I shot Pietta a email with pictures but I doubt I will ever hear back from them.
I may shoot it just to see what happens but I do believe it’s gonna be trash.
@@funkmonkeyfun Well that’s bad news. I’m pretty sure that a 2-3 thousand under bore size won’t go down mine either. I’ve no idea how much they can tolerate, but my 51 has survived so far. I took the cylinder out of the gun that seems to be aligned and when in my non aligned gun, it was still not in line making me think it is where the slot is cut in the frame, so a new cylinder wouldn’t fix mine.
Now what you COULD do is average your loss. 😀. You buy another one and if you’re lucky you now have an average loss of $164.50 per gun, verses your current $329. 😎. O.R.
My colt Bisley hammer won’t lock back unless I’m pointing it up. Any help?
I’m sorry unless I’m pointing it down
Never mind I need a sear and bolt spring. Appreciate it
I’m thinking there is a broken or cracked spring. That would be called a bolt spring, but it actually is two springs in one. One side puts pressure on the bolt and usually if it’s bolt side breaks the cylinder will not stay locked. If the other side fails, it will not push the sear (end of the trigger) into the full cock notch in the hammer. When the gun points down, the weight of the trigger can rotate its sear against the hammer, acting like the spring does, and engage the notch. Just a uneducated guess. O.R.
🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠
Hello OR