New beekeepers watch this video treatment free or not beekeeping basics
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Please read entire description before making a judgment call. Remember folks mites is basically a bug, not a virus, not bacteria. So saying bees can resist mites is like saying an animal is resistant to a flee or tick. A mite is a parasite just like a fleet or tick. And I'm assuming people that are completely apposed to treatment in anyway also won't treat for head lice for people, fleas and ticks for animals, and any kind of bug that invades your home like cockroaches. Its how and what you treat them with that matters.And healthy bees are happy bees, watch my videos, notice I don't wear a bee suit. It's because bees are healthy and happy. It's just common sense. Treatment doesn't =BAD.
Please visit JustBeecuz youtube channel.
This video is made mostly for the new beekeeper whether or not to treat hives for mites usually natural methods or not treating at all. If people are telling you not to treat your bees at all you will risk losing your bees and it will be very expensive to replace your bees. Natural treatments with oxalic acid or mineral oil blend using a fogger or alcohol blend with thymol and oxalic acid. Will not harm the bees in any way. And your bees will be healthy. I know this by experience.please remember, if you say you treated your hives, and they still die, please consider something else might have killed your hive.
Remember folks moisture in a hive is a killer. Starvation is a killer, bad nosema can weaken a hive, we feed our bees essential oils that contains tee tree oil, wintergreen, spearmint, and lemongrass oil. So please remember this. Mites are not the only killer. Here is a link to me fogging. Just because it's called a treatment doesn't make it bad. Don't let people put a label on it.
• Treating For Mites Wit...
I’m new to bee keeping, and I’m listening 100%. Your doing a great job explaining.
thank you .i am a new bee keeper and i am so glad you are putting this info out here . im reading and aplying . i am glad there are peoplelike you that will tell us what will help .
You're doing a great job David. I am a new beekeeper and have learned so much from you. Thanks for all you do; otherwise, it would be more of a challenge for us to learn.
In my fourth year in small time beekeeping and have yet to treat. Have about 80% overwinter survival rate. My only treatment is screened bottom boards with freeman trays. I've had zero success with solid bottom boards. Love your channel and thanks for sharing all your knowledge. Didn't know if you have tried small percentage of hives w/o treatment and selected those to breed. I plan on raising queens and doing mini nuc's, and hope to use survival stock in different bee yards to keep up diversity.
In Norway, we don't use pesticides nor any chemicals except for oxalic acid, formic acid and lactic acid. These acids (and essential oils) aren't entirely harmless to bees though. Natural or not, they're still strong chemicals for the little bee. Acids that are meant to kill a small parasite can also weaken the host. But if applied correctly, and only when required, they can be relatively harmless. With an emphasis on "only when required".
I've been taught to monitor the varroa level of my hives in order to know when and if to treat. If you apply a treatment too often, you are only going to select for mites that can survive the treatment, all the while weakening your bees. You want it to be the other way around, and it's a balancing act to get it right. Monitoring is the key to limiting treatment to only when necessary.
I do like oxalic acid vaporizers, like the one you show in the video. They're much less harmful to bees than dribbling, and seem to be more efficient too (as long as it's applied when there's no brood of course). While it's still treatment, it may just be the least harmful treatment against varroa that we have.
I'm not going to get into the whole treatment vs treatment free debate, but I'll mention that we do have some beekeepers who pretty much don't have a varroa problem. It's a complicated picture without any clear answers, but it's worth noting that the beekeepers that I know of who don't have a varroa problem use small cell size (4.9), monitor varroa levels and only treat with acids if necessary. Breeding is another factor. One beekeeper I know of doesn't even monitor anymore, as his bees are now completely resistant to varroa.
I do believe that bees can become resistant to varroa, in the sense that they can co-exist with the mite. Observations from some of the mentioned beekeepers indicate that bees have the ability to teach each other to fight off varroa, to keep it in check. There's some serious research being done on this, so hopefully we'll get a clearer picture soon.
ximono well said
My question is, is there a way to bring out the bees natural cleanliness tendencies? I know a sugar shake but that doesn't always work well.
@@reneebrown5598 there is an old timer who lives near me that only uses powder sugar as a treatment, every other bee keeper I know says it doesn't work though
I can vouch for the truthfulness of what you've said in this video. I have tried the "treatment free" method, and it has been very hard to keep my hives. I've seen the bees with deformed wings crawling across my yard. It's like you said, "if you don't work your hives, you will lose them." Total truth.
are wild bees tougher?
i would think they would be as they are never treated
David - what you're saying is 100% correct. I also treat with oxalic acid and I find it to be very effective. For the folks trying to do it the natural way will spend lots of money replacing the bees every year. You are correct it is time-consuming however I look at it as an insurance policy, time well spent. PS: I manufacture evaporators if you are interested.
Great video David... Well put regarding treating the bees. Thanks for the plug as well.
I just bought one of those foggers today. I am hoping to try it out soon. It takes hours to treat my hives with the wand.
Thats where i first seen it. I try to sub all the bee keeper channels. Just takes a while to find them.
I've found 250 so far... the only one besides beekeeps on mine is a tow company in Missouri, and I now follow 255, last I saw, That's a LOT of videos
I started beekeeping with some others and they went treatment free and I treat., My uncle has been beekeeping many years also and said the same thing you do. YOU HAVE TO TREAT> I am now running 50 hives and they are running none., Thank you for all the information and keep up the great videos.
I have been treatment free for 2 years and it works fine for me. I live in in cold climates (-30 C in the winter time)
What about the varroa resistant/tolerant bees that are now available for purchase? The only way to contend with mites long term is with genetics.
The resistant bees I’ve felt with were not fun to own and I would never put them in my home yard or in any city residential area.
And they still need treated.
You've come along way since this video was published! Weird seeing the yard so empty!
Hey David, new bee keeper here, Love your videos, It,s great that guys like you post these, as new keepers we (i) learn a lot from you guys,------My ? for you, I don't see any mites, can I treat just as a precaution, and can I over treat, I had four hives going into winter, lost one, (thinking from absconding due to unlevel hive body, puddled water inside on bottom board)I,m in north carolina so cold has not been an issue, I did the viroa strips back in the fall, for three weeks, did sugar sift thru hive, didn,t see any mites, I don,t want to take a chance on them being in there, ordered a vaporizer, Can i do this with weather down in the 30/40 degree days,------THANKS AGAIN for posting these videos, you guys really help the new keepers.
I agree. I don't have hives yet but I do have Saltwater tanks with fish and coral I raise and sell frags from. And I started out wanting a natural reef without chemicals assistance. But soon found out that once I started I changed the life of everything in the tanks. So I still use the least amount of chemicals to keep the tanks health but nature wasn't meant to live in a box or that would have been where it was put. I have beautiful healthy corals. And hopefully one day soon I'll have a few bees also. Thanks for your help and time.
My bee supplier treated the package of bees before I bought them and before I installed them this spring.
So far after 2 month there are no mites as of last week.
So yes, I will treat them in the late summer or fall again if needed.
Great explanation, I have also wasted my breathe trying to make some "treatment-free" folks understand just what you said so well. *treatment = BAD, but it's okay to put the bees in a box & take all their honey.* I finally got tired of it & even though it sickens me, I just hafta let them go on dealing the bees a slow death. Now, I can only shake my head when their bees are dead every spring & they will not take responsibility for their NEGLECT.
I have 8 hives. Came out of winter with 2 hives lost. One hive was due to poor hive treatments. The other was queen lose.
Would have been nice to watch treatment with one or both methods mentioned.
I run 35-50 colonies and have been at it for eight years or so. Near treated and never plan on doing so. If you run with stock that manages varroa with aids and are dependent on treatments for survival than that’s what you’ll have, dependent bees. If you increase from your best that aren’t dependent then that’s what you’ll get. It your choice, healthier bees that are more productive and less work or more dependent and more work, the choice is yours. Jeff at NK apiaries on Facebook
Bee keeping is a very hard work, what I have seen. Thanks for sharing your video.bi liked your video and SUBSCRIBED to your Channel.
can you do a video of how exactly to use the vaporizer. For us new beekeepers
Great vid! I was curious what your treatment schedule is? Do you treat more in the winter and less in the summer? and when you treat do you have to do it many times every week to break the mites life cycle? thanks David!
Hi David new beekeeper here, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and time for all of us out here. I don't have too many people who I can ask so CZcams has been my mother. You are a gentle calm man and easy to so see why your bees are gentle towards you, they know too.
I would like to ask, as I treat with the vaporiser, but do I need to fog alternately as well?
Yes I had already checked it out, but I am always cautious of trying new things out on bees, especially only having a few hives. How long has he been using the fogger with oxalic in it? Is ether alcohol safe to use on bees? I can see those that have many hives to treat that it is the way to go. I haven't seen the fat bee man use this method, isn't he the 'God Bee' of knowledge?
So many bees. What are they eating? I am starting bees this year and have been working on an organic, bio-diverse food forest in my yard. I'm continually trying to plant things that are great food sources for pollinators. We are what we eat...so are bees. I see so many bee keepers relying on sugar water/ processed bee "food". I firmly believe providing them with what they would eat in a natural environment, strengthens their immunity and creates stronger colonies. Also wondering what you use for a water source for that many bees? I'm considering a small pond for one hive alone. If all goes well, I plan on expanding, but don't want them rushing to the neighbor's pools. Thanks:)
My winter oxalic sublimation got a drop of 300 mites on the first go!
thank you David very helpful
I treat with oxalyc treatment but it's also a good idea to incorporate IPM systems as well (in my opinion). The oxalyc treatment (I've been told) helps with trachial mites. Those who don't treat only re-infect other people's hives that may have been treated earlier creating a bigger issue. If that person doesn't treat more than once a year and untreated foragers enter his hive and re-infect the hive he may lose his over a winter at no cause if his own.
Treatment free doesn't mean hands off. And it doesn't mean not take care of them. To me treatment free means that I don't want to put poison in my hive. Now I'm only working 2 hives and I've just got them this spring. But I'm going for the all natural type of beekeeping. Now if everything I try does not work I will use chemicals but I would rather not.
had 55 hives go into winter in Indiana never lost a hive last year ,I dont do any treatments ,all my bees are feral stock and they do excellent , back when i had bought bees from companys they always died , since i got into feral bees seems nothing can stop a hive some are black bees with babey grey bees some are more Gold like italians ,but they all do good without treatments ,so far this winter theyre doing good
Most people with a natural methodology are OK with survival of the fittest as they think those surviving are the best of breed. Personally for me oxalic sublimation x 3 times during brood breaks or winter/spring when there's no flow makes sense and should keeps mites controlled. The bees alone can't 😔
Also, does any remaining honey need to be dumped after treating the hive with the oxalic acid? Thanks again for all of your informative videos. They are a true gift.
Yes
You only treat when there's no honey flow and or during a brood break.
Love the "as soon as they put in a box it's unnatural" comment. You are dead on.
For what it is worth, I will be a new beekeeper in 3 weeks and I do appreciate these videos ! Thank you, will try wintergreen and will purchase oxalic fogger and acid in advance, knowing I will need to have it. Should I spray my package of bees before I place them in the hive?
Nice. I am interested too
So I have been watching a lot of your videos, and although there are things I disagree with, for the most part I find your videos entertaining and educational. However this video dismays me. Give treatment free a try, and losing lots of bees is not giving treatment free a real try. It takes three years minimum for nature to select out the bees that should not contribute their genes to the next generations. 1st year, you lose a lot, 2nd year you lose less, 3rd even less and 4th year generally speaking you see no more or less losses than those who treat their bees. You don't keep buying new bees, you use increase methodology to continue increase from the hives that successfully over-winter. Those hives produce drones and queens to breed with. Breed them liberally from your survivors. Eventually you equalize and you stop losing any more bees than usual. I have been keeping bees since 1985. I didn't treat back then because I was just a kid, couldn't afford those expensive medicines, but I wasn't losing colonies left and right. I wasn't treatment free by purpose, just by fact. The ONLY time I had to buy new bees was because I moved across the country and couldn't or didn't want to take the bees with me. You my friend have NOT yet given treatment free a try, at least not as of this video.
Just out of curiosity, in how many years from now you going to have mite resistant bees at your new place? I'd be glad to buy a couple of families of mite resistant honey bees from you. As of righ now I just bought three families in the beginning of the fall and by now have already lost two of them because of the mites and hope that I'll be successful treatment free. I'm aleady in $500 loss...
I wish I would watch this video way earlier
That cat is adorable
Some of the critics didn't listen to what Dave said at the beginning. He said that if there was never treatment maybe there would not be a problem. But there was treatment and now there is a problem. There seems to be a lot of different opinions about use of oxylic acid. Take supers off, treat only once a year, treat in winter only, etcetera. It appears there is some overlap cautions from the spray, and drip method into the vaporize method. It would be nice to see a learned account from someone that addresses just vaporizer method. I was told by a supplier who had previously not endorsed using oxylic that it wouldn't hurt to do several treatments if necessary.
Would it ever be safe to harvest the honey for human use if you had ever used oxylic vapors? I have read it neutralizes in about 4 days? Good info Dave, wonder if those critics get a flu shot?
Love This Vid Boy You got it right on this on .Keep it up. Don't Bee a lazy Beekeeper. Lol .
While oxalic acid is naturally occurring, almost all oxalic acid is manufactured in huge industrial chemical plants. I use it, but let's be real. It may be "naturally occurring" but it is still a chemical by definition.
Hi David, Enjoy your videos and really appreciate your advice to all of us new beekeepers. When should I start fogging my hives and how often should I fog them?
Thanks David, I'm in Southern Indiana and we are still having some cold temps. We have had a few warm days and my bees (3 Hives) were doing some cleansing flights and some were bringing in white pollen, don't know where they are getting it. I checked my candy boards yesterday and they still have plenty to eat and I believe they are mostly still clustered. I think maybe I will wait a couple more weeks to start treating for mites, the weather should be getting warmer by then. Thanks again.
I watch you guys on the chats all the time,Joe is about 200 miles north of me. I am in Newburgh, IN. I contacted Joe in regards to getting plans to build nucs, he told me to check online. I am not blessed with many power tools so I am kind of limited to what I can build.
Hope to real soon.
It is October in central Washington state. I have treated in the summer - just treated drip method for mites using oxilic acid. The amount of mites I found on the white bottom board is huge. Should I treat again? I want to use the fogger method because it is getting cold here, I'm anxious to get my quilt box on but do not know what to do? This is my first year and I'm trying but it's awfully confusing. I would appreciate any info you can give me. Thank you, Betty
I'm with you man, Honeybees arent even native to the states so anyone stating they will become resistant to mites that could be true but that would require us to import the bees from Europe, but even those bees die off from mites.
One thing you didn't mention is its not the mites that do most the killing but the viruses they transfer from their bites... but again good video, i've been debating on posting one my self about this whole treatment free beekeeping trip.
My first 2 years I was treatment free with success, then the third year I lost all 9 hives.
Hi can I use mustard oil for fogging instead mineral oil. And one can I fog during mansoon season
New beekeepers take note!
This video isn't really correct. Oxalic acid is dangerous and can cause serious respiratory problems in humans if inhaled. It is toxic to brood as well. Acid is acid regardless of the source. Oxalic acid does exist as one of the more effective ways to treat mites, but I'd still caustic. The comment about doing nothing doesn't make sense. We were doing nothing when they first arrived and here are. If that logic were your we wouldn't need to treat today.
Rich Booth - So vinegar is toxic, as it's acidic too? I guess we shouldn't eat or smell lemons either, because there acidic. It's the level of acidity that matters, and how it interacts with the specific organism. Even to much vitamin A can have toxic affects, but in the right amount it's quite the opposite of harmful. Personal protective equipment like a respirator rated for those types of vapor is common sense, as even everyday dust can be harmful given certain exposer levels. Oxalic acid becomes more effective when there's no brood and as a result in cooler temperatures because it doesn't permeate the capped cells, leaving the large percentage of verroa mites in the cells, up to 80%, unaffected from the treatment, which is why the gentleman in the video recommends multiple successive 7 day treatments to insure the untreated verroa are out of the capped cells for exposure to the treatment, before the new cells they're hiding in become capped. People who don't treat, even if their bees survive, are just spreading verroa, and making everyone bees suffer more. I'm sure your dog could live covered with ticks, and scabies mange, but we know that would be inhuman and spread contagious disease to other animals. Think about what your saying, and how it effects everything else, because it sounds crule, and inconsiderate.
Could you show me a research paper or link to it that shows that it is toxic to brood?
Some say that it will kill brood.
But so far I did not see any documentation yet that it will harm brood.
Fumigation may not be as toxic as the liquid form as it is claimed.
Treat your bees as needed and your neighbor may be thankful for not inheriting all the diseases your hive has.
I’ve been reading through the comments and I’m perplexed at the level of resistance to treatments. I see a lot of “ well I know this guy who is treatment free and he does fine”, but I don’t see a lot of “I am treatment free and I don’t have problems”. Here’s how I see it: 1. Mites make bees miserable and kill colonies via the spread of viruses etc. 2. OA is not harmful to bees, ESPECIALLY at recommended doses. 3. OA kills mites. Seems self explanatory to me, but then again, I’m just a non PHD-holding, bee keeping red neck. What do I know?
I've respected your videos for a long time. This is sad you say those not treated will die. WRONG. I'm not recommending you now to all my beekeeping friends as I have in the past. I've not lost any more bees than anyone else around here. I read the state reports every year. Those who treated with all those things you mention lost 50 -75% last 2 years. Strange how this happens as queens die and bees die or abscond after treatments. There are alot who chose to live a natural life after dealing with health issues. I use powder sugar dusting and brood breaks. My losses aren't any higher than any others around. I just came in from my bee yard. Not I don't do commercial but do make money with my bees and queens. Who go onto a treatment free hive as they've learned how.
Vaporized oxalic acid only kills the mites that are not in the capped brood. Heat treatment is the only near 100% kill.
Treatment-free beekeeping is situational, just like everything else. You can't be treatment free with 10 hives. You can't be treatment free if you get mitebombed by neighbors. And you can't be treatment free if you get your bees from "Moms&Pops Packages'n'Queens" who have not heard words "mite" and "resistant" used in same sentence.
It is all numbers game, really. If you start with 10k hives, you'll be lucky to get 10-20 hives that exhibit consistent low or no mite infestation. If you start with 100 hives - good luck, you'll need it.
So, what do you do? You buy VSH/TF queen. Then you make some splits, all is great. By 4th or 5th generation, your queens' will be too diluted by local gene pool to exhibit any VSH/TF traits.
Again, what do you do? You spend a small fortune re-queening 100 hives with VSH/TF stock every year. That gets pretty old pretty quick.
The answer? You saturate your yard with YOUR drones and begin a comprehensive queen breeding program. That requires knowledge, experience, tools, proper workflow and very accurate records. If you are a beginner - again, good luck, you'll need it.
And even if you do succeed in running your own self-sustaining treatment free operation, it will all go down to shit the moment commercial beekeeper stages couple thousand of mitebombs a mile away.
So, is treatment free doable? Yes. Is it situational? Yes. Do you need to have ton of hives and know what the hell you are doing? Yes.
And no, it is not something that new beekeeper should undertake and have any hopes of success. But don't write it off for everybody else just because in your situation it did not work out very well.
What do you hook the vaporizer to? A car battery?. Surely I don't have to walk around my hives with a car battery.
Im looking on getting starting...
Hi, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. I have gained so much from you! Knowing mites are the biggest problem for bees, I need to know when is the earliest I can treat with oxalic acid. We are in central NC zone 7b and bought 2 NUC's this spring that were not treated for mites due to the sellers failing health. Did sugar shake & do have high mite counts. My research has indicated I can treat in fall. Why do I have to wait until fall? Fall begins September 22. Should I wait until fall? Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
sorry but there are people running feral bees that dont treat snd havent for yrs. there are feral bees all over around here. they have adapted.
Don't apologize, those of us using survivor lines are not sorry in the least and are happy to work with bees that demonstrate real varroa and beetle resistance, using survivor stock that is varroa resistant and hygienic is really the only responsible thing to be doing. Find bees that make it and work with them. Videos like this just send the wrong message.
Are you keeping hives? How many? If you don't treat then your hive is a carrier and is infecting other hives and breeding more mites that are killing off the bees. Mites are indeed the number 1 cause of the so called CCD. Its irresponsible to not treat, at least until hygenic bees become more available and the full results of the studies are in. Check with your universities and bee clubs across the county.
Blake Hoffman, YOU are what's wrong with beekeeping with your arrogant response to the Hive and Honey Bee and Greg Waskom. Treat your bees all you want, but please don't be as ignorant as your response makes you look here. There are ongoing studies with survivor varroa resistant lines of bees that are absolutely not "carriers that are infecting other hives" the only infection is your ignorance and position on that issue. Please become one of the learning and advancing keepers and stop shutting down those who are rearing lines of bees that will continue without treatment and low or no mite counts. Seriously, how stupid are you?!!! I can see that you have no respect for science.
I just got back and found your comment. Seems a bit angry. All I was saying is that the current evidence does not support leaving the bees untreated WHEN their mite counts are high enough, the maximum threshold is said to be 6/100 but 3% is indicative of an real need to watch your hive more closely and probably start treatment. Are you just saying we should stop treating all of our hives now, just like that? Seriously? I'm sure there is evidence showing improvements or complete arrest of the mites in some hives. Thats excellent. I'm saying that we have an inertia as it were to over come. You can't stop a steamship in a mile. Please go see the data at beeinformed.org/aphis/ and data here bip2.beeinformed.org/mitecheck which is sponsored by the U of Maryland and Michigan. I understand your position and hope that these hygenic bees can eventually overcome the trends. All of us do.
Organic Dip Shits don't understand Science...until they are selling Global Warming
David good work. This video was the first one of yours that I watched and subscribed after watching the follow up.Your title on this one caught my attention because I am new. Have watched most of Dons the fat bee man. I will be going through your list. As Grand Ma taught us if you can't say something good KEEP QUIET.
Hey David. I'm very much enjoying you CZcams vids. Please keep them coming! Very helpful!
I've been studying beekeeping for about 5 years. I lost my first hive 2 years ago and just started a new colony this year. I have a question. I went into my new hive late this morning. The new hive is 14 days old. It is a captured swarm. They have built out comb on all but two frames and three of those frames are full with capped brood. Another frame is about 1/3 drones and the rest of that frame is brood. The others are being draw out. I noticed on two frames, one frame has a capped queen cell and on one other frame there were the starts of 6 more what looks like queen cells. I removed those but left the capped queen cell. Thing is my existing queen is laying beautifully. There is even an abundant of fresh eggs and larvae uncapped in one frame. The patterns of all the capped cells are right on Q. They are also making lots of brood box honey. My question is, why are my bees making queens, and why so many queen cells are being built. This confuses me. Can you help?
Thanks in advance!
I have no bees, yet. I do know, by watching your videos that proper beekeeping does consist of proper management. They do need to be taken care of. They need hepl. Have you heard of the Bee Gym? No chemicals. The bees seem to adapt to it well and groom themselves when they arrive at the entrance and the mites fall off and onto the grease board. It looked pretty interesting, not sure how effective it is.
Scientific beekeeping is saying the OA with the fogger isn’t working, only the sublimation method. What do you think?
I have 8 hives, 5 of them already have supers on them with caped and uncapped honey, Will this harm the Honey. I have been lucky for the last 6 years and have not had mites but something changed this year and now i have them. I have been checking every year and i have only had problems with hive beetles.
Hi David. You have a sizeable field there. How Ho you keep the grass trimmed? I don't suppose you have grazing animals there since there is no protection for your bees. I imagine it's quit a job to mow.
How do hives survive in the wild? Without anyone keeping the mites, beetles, improper ventilation or what ever
I want to get started for just my small household for honey. I'm overwhelmed since it seems most are commercial beekeepers. Do you have a video on how to start and maintain bees on a small scale? Thank you!
Like your videos. Do you still use these two products to rid the bees of mites?
Is there a reason they use alcohol instead of distilled water for the mixture? Unless oxalic acid will not dissolve in water, seems it would be even less toxic? I don't know yet, I plan on testing when I get a chance...
if they would have adapted, then why didn't the bees where the mites come from do it, and how did they get here if they adapted in some other country?
The problem with varroa mites is they have to have other hosts than the honey bee and bumble bee but what are they?
Are you still using the fogger for varroa mites?
How u mix the mineral oil and alcohol am
I will treat but I will not use chemicals unless I absolutely have to. Before I will try more natural methods.
Hello from Greece
I'm new beekeeper (2 years) and i don't want to use chemicals in my hives. Now i have 30 of them.
I'm watching the videos of "Don The Fat Big Man" but my english are not so good.
I'm interested to buy a fooger and use it with 100ml alcohol and 25-30 gr oxalic acid as i saw in videos, but i don't understand how long and how many times i have to do the therament, if the external temp have limits and what season of the year i can do this.
for example: every 7 days for three weeks and the temp between 10-30 Celsius
Here in Greece the new bio therament is tapes with oxalic acid, water and glycerine but we don't know yet if the result is over 90%
Thank you for your time and sorry for my English
Hi, found my answer in your post to Phillip. Looks like I can treat with oxalic acid anytime. I guess most information said treat in fall because less brood?
Are your nucs painted black? I rarely see black hives. I char my hives and apply rosin and wax. I keep them in the shade to deal with the summer heat, so the black finish isn't an issue. Do have issues with sun/black finish?
Thanks Dave, really appreciate your videos! I have a question about treatment. I’ve watched a few of these videos using the oxcilic acid, can you use it with the Honey supers on? Also I’ve seen used with and without a mask on. Also there is one called Apiguard that is placed in the hive, but that one cant be when supers are on. Which do you believe works the best, just getting started with a few hives. Thanks for any assistance.
Barnyard Bees Thanks for the quick response.
I have mighty mite strips. Are they ok? I am new and not sure because everyone is an expert. They all tell you what to do but don't explain. Thanks for all the info I really appreciate it.
Cool thanks.
Thank you
Just wondering what is the mix when you use the propane burner style
I want to know your counts before and after the mineral oil. Nobody who uses mineral oil ever give the numbers
good job David. I agree with you totaly
Do you have any experience with thymol-based treatments other than the fogging mixture? I'm thinking about trying Apiguard.
David can we add oxalic acid to mineral oil instead of grain alcohol
Oxalic acid, thymol, etc. are just as much chemicals as the other treatments typically referred to as 'chemicals'. The concentrations used for treatment are orders of magnitudes higher than can occur in any natural exposure; and therefore it is wrong to conclude that these substances would not be harmful in those concentrations, simply because low concentrations also occur naturally. The only way to draw valid conclusions is to look at actual scientific studies of the impact of specific substances on honey bees and their effectiveness against mites. If you actually do that, and make an informed decision; youll find that even though oxallic acid might be an OK choice, but only if used in brood-less periods, there are far better alternatives among the so called 'chemicals', most notably amitraz, which if used in controlled doses and in a slow-release formula (f.e. apivar), comes out on top both in terms of limited impact on the bees AND effectiveness against the mites. Thymol is a rather bad choice; oil-evaporation i have not read any studies on yet. In addition, even though im not an advocate of treatment-free beekeeping myself (hard to manage the risk), i have seen evidence to believe its not a myth at all. A queen-breeder near me claims he has been going treatment-free for decades and has less than 1% losses a year (an overwintered nuc i bought from him last year also was doing really really well despite a large mite-infestation). A local French honey-producer I spoke with, says he rarely treats for mites, only if there is a notable problem; and claimed that would be the common approach in France. With 100s of hives, if you control your own breeding stock, it might effectively be a better long-term plan to not treat, even though the losses might be high the first few years.
Do you by any chance ship Nucs?in these 5 frame nuc boxes I mean (sorry new to bees, I know some people do mail bees but in different screened packages) I saw a different video of yours talking about your friendly stock of bees(but you are not anywhere near me,lol)
Most of the TF people I talk to refuse to do mite counts because they do not want to know the truth. That their hives are not doing good. They are not making stronger bees, they are making stronger mites..
Exactly right. Well said...
Asian, African and Primorsky bees have evolved with mites and are highly resistant to Varroa, the Italian variety has no resistance to Varroa mites. So its down to more intelligent beekeeping and genetic breeding practices by commercial Bee keepers to improve bee genetics. Bees have been bred for honey production rather than survival so hence the reason why mites and bee diseases have become so destructive and need chemical treatments. Its the same with bee bacteria called American foul brood, alot of countries allow beekeepers to use antibiotics, but this is a very stupid idea because AFB develops immunity.
Studies have found that the more aggressive the bees the cleaner they are and less affected by Varroa and other bee diseases, letting bees swarm also helps because it creates stronger bees, cross breeding with Asian or African (AHB) is the only answer to Varroa mites. However some commercial bee keepers prefer toxic chemicals because its easier and also it keeps their honey yeilds high even though their product is contaminated with insecticides.
Research has found keeping bees warmer also helps inhibit the mite breeding cycle, above 35 degees, polystyrene hives will help here.
Varroa is a massive issue except in Australia because they don't have them yet, however we need to see more intelligent breeding solutions from the bee experts.
Wrong, Asian Honey Bees (Apis cerana) have their own sub species of Varroa. They have just recently found that these 2 different Varroa mites can in fact use either or (European or Asian Bees) Some african bees are immune, but here is the deal, those bes tend to spend a LOT of time grooming each other and very little time gathering pollen and honey. I have a degree in Entomology and have been a Master Bek for quite a while. I currently run 3200 hives.
TheMontanaDave So what does the expert do to combat the Varroa mites, associated Parasitic Mite diseases and bee loses.
TheMontanaDave, where did you get your Entomology Degree? Would love to look you up, would also love to read your research papers. Thanks, please link here for all of us to share and see.
Maurice Upton, I completely agree with you! :)
Do you grow bees to make nucs to resale or are you growing them then tranfering them to bigger hive?
Glycerin is a way better carrier for the oxalic acid.
Does honey bees make honey out of cauliflower that will help destroy mites at least that is a hypothesis I thought of I'm wondering if anyone would know
When do you start to treat and how often?
Did you have any problems with queens or their production of eggs/larvae etc etc when using oxallic acid treatment ?
Thank you for answering and the for the video.
First and foremost, i watch and love your videos..but your wrong with this one...I watched your video, and you make some great points...That being said..as with any other animal or creature man has manipulated, there are benifits for sure, but it comes at a cost...example is the variety of pets(each breed having its own medical condition that troubles it) So I say, to each his own..
You run a large scale operation, you cant afford to not use something to kill mites...and i understand that...but for you to say if you dont use something to treat your bees, your bee will die...i say hogwash...The bees themselves have proved you wrong...
I dont buy my bees...I catch swarms or i do cutouts...some may have come from a keeper, but most i can assure you, are wild..and some will die off, or not make it. Wild bees are learning and adjusting to them...which means Genitics are the most important factor in their survival(same concept you use to have gentle bees)
Natural selection can and has been used successfully to manage bees...Bees that show a resistance and dont die out, are used to make early splits, and so forth..and you can still get honey of them..or use for whatever purpose you have..so on a small scale, proof is out there that you can...
For someone who purchase packages or nucs...from an operation such as yours, your are probably correct...you will need to treat..because of genetics
Keep the videos coming..i love them.
David, who are you buying your acid from I see florida on the label. tks John
So........ are you going to pet that cat or what?!?!?!?!?! love the video! ps....treat your bees people!
Do you know anyone who has used heat treatment for this? Seen a couple of vids showing as much, electric and solar based
I'm not sure how you're saying that you don't use any chemicals, but then you say you use oxalic acid. This is a chemical. It's used in rust prevention, bleaching wood and metal cleaners. Yeah, its in some vegetables, but very very low doses. It's in rhubarb leaves, yes, and is nephrotoxic and corrosive.
Every hive has mites .... period.
Is the OV treatment the same for a NUC vs a ten frame?
ok I've been buying it at dadant, but gets expensive for small amounts. tks
well said
your wasting your breath. the new beekeepers wont change thier mind. thats why i sell them nucs every year.
Oh, no.. I don't want to start off in the wrong foot. I saw this person taking his time to explain - which means he cares and is shows by his yielding.. I will 100% do this. I want success for both the bees and myself. I have listen to his advise and will be one of the few.
raptor - Now, with that comment, I take offense, I'm new (not even a full year yet), I learn, this past season, I FAILED only did sugar shake, to let the girls groom the B$%^&*^%^&I out and thought I had pretty good results, didn't happen, I lost my original 2 hives, luckily I got a swarm last August that is hanging on. I do understand drift is probably what did the 2nd one in, because, not only did they get the sugar shake in October, they requeened in July creating a brood break.. my calm hive had been nearly clear in Sept shake, but winter and varroa took them down.. I honestly don't think that most WINTER losses are from moisture. Both those hives were well ventilated, had top entrances, with sugar on top to absorb moisture, along with feeder boxes filled with pine shavings above the sugar... all those precautions didn't do it... when I cleaned the hive, the amount of varroa on the tacky board under the screened bottom board nearly made me cry.. THAT HIVE SHOULD NOT HAVE DIED, except that the varroa got the majority, and the last handful may have gotten moist, since when I cleared the hive, that last group was moldy.. Planning on sending them in for testing to verify.
My OAV is on it's way, expected delivery tomorrow, Planning on brood break starting EOM, and treating with OA on the 21st of May... not going to let this happen again, without doing all I can to stop it... Even planning to drill holes in foundation so they can leave communication holes/passages at the center of the hives to ease frame transition in the cold... I don't want to loose another hive... I LEARNED and I'm a NEWBEE, and I hope I never get to smart to LEARN
I’m a new beek. I am gonna treat this year.
Treat, Treat and Treat.
And fed them if needed.
Last year I bought bees from my supplier and he told me that those bees are treated for mites already and I believed it.
I believed him and did not treat my bees and my bees died.
This year I treated already and I will continue. I do not want to inherit my neighbors bee/hive problem because he does not believe in treatments but with it becomes a mite breeding center.
First year beekeeper here. I’ve lost 6 of my hives. I’m 95% sure it was mites. I have three left and I just bought the fogger and acid. Hopefully, I won’t have any more losses.
You talk about 100% kill from oxalic acid but unless I missed it, no where in the video or the discussion do you mention that oxalic acid only kills phoretic mites and does nothing to mites in capped brood. To be effective treatments need to be repeated several weeks.