John Julius Norwich - The less than pleasant Evelyn Waugh (133/136)
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- čas přidán 2. 10. 2018
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John Julius Norwich (1929-2018) was an English popular historian, travel writer and television personality. He is the author of histories of Norman Sicily, the Republic of Venice, the Byzantine Empire and 'The Popes: A History'. [Listener: Christopher Sykes]
TRANSCRIPT: Evelyn Waugh was always part of our lives. He used to come down from Bognor when I was about five, I suppose, and we used to call him Bo in those days. And my mother was very fond of him, but she was always a little bit frightened of him too, I think. He fell in love with her, again, no conceivable sex. Apart from anything else, he was far too religious. He wouldn’t have dreamed of cheating on his wife or anything like that, but he did, he loved my mother as company. Rather more, really, I think, than my mother loved his, because she always, as I said, a little frightened of him. And he did have tremendous rows with my father. My father actually loved having rows, but didn’t have, had very few, because very few people could take it, but he knew that Evelyn could. And I remember, I think Evelyn used, deliberately, to needle him in order to get him really going, into... into a good temper, and, or a bad temper, I should say, and I remember one evening, in the middle of the war at Bognor, and Evelyn said, ‘I'd rather the Germans won this war than we won it on the backs of the Americans.’ That did it to my father. He went absolutely puce in the face. I've never seen him so angry, great veins throbbing, you know. Evelyn loved it too, I think. My father enjoyed it enormously. But he was... he was not a nice man.
My mother... when he died, my mother was asked if she would do a little broadcast of her memories of him and she thought about it for some time and then she said no, she wouldn’t, because everything she could remember about him was to his discredit. She couldn’t remember any nice things, really, about him, and she had one particular story. She'd been acting in, I think it was Glasgow or, no, Manchester, Manchester, and Evelyn had come up to see the play, greatly disapproved of the play on religious grounds to start with, but then after he'd seen it a few times he grew to love it. And he went to see it in Manchester and took my mother out to dinner afterwards and they were walking home to the hotel when they were accosted by, clearly, a very, very panicky little man with two, obviously rather heavy, suitcases, running in the opposite direction, terribly out of breath. ‘Oh please, can you tell me the way to the railway station?’ And Evelyn, without any hesitation said, ‘Yes, just go up to the second lot of traffic lights, there left, first set of traffic lights, right, and you're there.’ The man said thank you so much, and charged off. Evelyn had absolutely no idea where the station was at all. I mean, that's not a nice story and you remember the story which his son Auberon told, when the first bananas arrived in England after the war, and the children were allowed one banana each, the first ration, and there were seven children. Evelyn had them all round and watched while he ate all seven bananas. - Věda a technologie
There's a cottage industry in detailing Waugh's difficult behavior. However, there's almost no recognition for his extraordinary gift for friendship and loyalty to his real friends. There's also no regard for his extraordinary physical courage in wartime, attested to by his commanding officer and fellow soldiers. He showed by that courage, a regard for his fellow countryman, that's well beyond the hurt caused by a caustic tongue and rude personal manner.
I met this man once, briefly. I was in a menial position and I remember his kindness and interest in me.
RIP.
A gentleman
does see your position as 'menial',
but vital for the smooth running of life.
It is just good manners!
.
Fascinating. We have lost so much in terms of our culture and memories with the passing of people like him
Yet what a great writer who could express deep and tender feelings.
He comes across as heartless, but in his unfinished novel (from the late 30s? where he talks about his painter father. I forget the name off the top of my head.) Anyway, its as penetrating and and human as it gets.
Little wonder Diana Cooper had little good to say about Waugh. He was probably the only male visitor to their house who wouldn't sleep with her.
Boo-Boom!!! Nail on head!
A rapier wound bleeds little.
"Everything she could remember about him was to his discredit."
She was no friend.
I’m not surprised. Because he was accepted as something of a genius he could get away with rank rudeness. His books were uncomfortable to real especially A Handful of Dust.
@@stellaboulton9531 Get a grip.
@@andypitchless5515 Code for 'How dare you not agree with ME'.
I have been devoted to Waugh since childhood, and have read just about everything written by and about him - I even spent an afternoon with Harold Acton talking about their friendship. Admittedly he was an extreme case, but people were not expected to be ‘nice’ the way they are today. He would have been horrified if someone called him ‘nice’. Each of his close friendships had its particularities, but I think people were willing to put up with a lot because they realized he was one of the great English writers of the 20th century and they weren’t.
Lovely reflection:) Those days are long gone. It saddens me how irrelevant Literature has become in Britain :(
As someone so knowledgeable about Waugh's work and personality too, have you ever considered to share your views on the matter in writing? After having read (and re-read) most of his books, I am utterly fascinated by Waugh, but watching the few recorded interviews he gave, it's very hard for me to say when he is replying earnestly or being cheeky, I find hard to read into his real thoughts and beliefs behind the façane.
jrdh2012 I published a piece in ‘Modern Age’ some ten years ago. I’ll look up the exact reference. One thing I might say here, since the subject is Waugh’s nastiness. Harold Acton, to whom ‘Decline and Fall’ is dedicated, told me he felt that Waugh never really recovered from his first wife’s desertion of him. (Sir Harold was the best man at the wedding, which seems strange for someone with an older brother. But Alec Waugh always said he never understood his brother and they felt no attachment to each other at all.)
I discovered Waugh living in a Catholic monastery. I think he would have not liked being known as "nice" because he would have seen it as a betrayal of truth. "Nice" is shallow, and for those who just want to be liked. Waugh pushed for the highest level.
I’ve forgotten. In this interview does he tell the story of his father at a dinner party once asking Waugh to leave the house?
I yield to no one in my admiration of Waugh's genius but he was the first to admit he could be quite impossible especially as his generation would have said "having taken drink." I loved his response to a hostess who having watched him cruelly reduce a young fan to tears wanted to know how he could call himself a Christian given his behavior. "Ah, but Madame you have no idea how much much worse I could be if not for that."
John Julius has his mothers china blue eyes. Enjoyed this clip and shall watch more of them - thank you.
Harry Cust's blue eyes... Lol
Waugh = genius
His remark about his wish for the outcomes of the war which was probably made to provoke his friend, is an illustration of his genius!
3.06 If EW & co are likely on Oxford Street heading toward The Midland Hotel (heading back from The Palace Theatre) Evelyn's directions to suitcase man would have been correct-sounds like he's saying to go up Portland Street and turn right. Manchester had three stations then, all of them very easy to find. Anyone would think EW had pushed suitcase man into a ravine.
Nicely put!!!
I sympathise with EW in the story of the Manchester railway station.
Once in London I was with my boss, a rather intimidating and obnoxious foreign lady. A passer by stopped us asking for directions, she pointed to me and said: "Ask Connor, he knows everything about London".
I didn't have a clue, but pressurised, I told the gentleman: "Go straight down Queensgate, turn left, then right by the traffic lights and it's right in front of you".
She beamed widely and said: "I told you, he knows everything!"
Did you confabulate, or did you actually know the directions?
@@threethrushes simply made up a series of directions. The foreign lady was so extremely intimidating, that when she said that I knew everything, letting her down was not an option.
@@connoroleary591 I have so many questions!
@@connoroleary591 it wasn`t the right thing to do to allow the intimidation of the foreign lady accompanying you to give false directions. I can understand why you did it but she needed to be taught a lesson not to be obnoxious. Sometimes doing the right thing means we have to put ourselves in uncomfortable situations.
Haha i laughed out loud at the railway story 🤣
This terrible streak of sadism in so many people, not just Evelyn Waugh. Getting off on other people's discomfort, how perverse.
Waugh was just like Simon Raven. Wrote like an angel. Behaved like a demon
Best writer of 20th century Britain.....PGW is next.....
Your opinion leaves me not fully gruntled - PGW wins on output volume and laughs per page.
His fellow Catholic Tolkein deserves a mention.
Wodehouse was acclaimed as the finest English prose writer of the 20th century, was far funnier than Waugh, had a charming, gently aand kindly character, and while not as far as I know, a religious man, was far more forgiving and Christian than Waugh. The truth is plain to see. Waugh was a bitter, selfish, intolerant and cruel man. Wodehouse was loved by all who knew him, and even forgave and became friends with Wm Connor, the journalist who virulently condemned him for his Berlin broadcasts, which though foolish and misguided, were innocuous. Waugh, on the other hand, never forgave anyone.
But it was to Waugh's credit that he paid Wodehouse one of the most graceful compliments on his work , to quote " He has made a world for us to live in and delight in."
@@michelez715 Fully agree. Would have written similar but it is 3 :15 am & I can't face it.
PGW and EF Benson's Lucia books
Bliss
Even better, PGW read to me, by Jonathan Cecil
"Everything she could remember of him was to his discredit" - That is fucking hilarious, and would have amused the great man himself no end I'm sure. It even sounds like something he would write.
He wasn't a nice man ...yet we had him at our house often.
fancy that, so did jon
His mother not him.
Wow. Peculiar fellow
As regards his mother's opinion of Evelyn , he's obviously not read their published correspondence of 30 years. Which only ceased with his death. 🤔🤔🤔
Doesn't this Generation have such good elocution. Today people are stupid as . . .
Indeed. It's all text shorthand and common vernacular, not to mention the run-on sentences (because they aren't teaching grammar and punctuation in schools anymore; there's "an app for that"...) and indifferent usage of your/you're and their/there/they're.
Modern English speakers tend towards the troglodytic these days.
"He was.... he was not a nice man" :-)
I love the kind of phlegmatic way of talking about E.W. It. John Julius Norwich sounds amusing and credible.
A genius can also be flawed. A literary giant but also a snob and an unpleasant character.
Who did he snob? Yes, unpleasant but fging funny!
@@Globe14 snob not snub
His literature is only funny to people who make a “haw haw haw “ sound when they laugh. Not that funny, not that clever, he’s a “classic” only because the luvvies say so.
The little world of 'letters' be it novels or journalism seems to be inhabited by sour, jealous and rather nasty creatures.
Cecil Beaton was another great man of the XX century who also very much disliked Waugh, and it seems like if Waugh fully corresponded the feeling.
A lie when repeated often enough....after the bones are picked clean, the shape of Mr, Waugh is not what we are shown.
The man was clearly a massive prick.
He was also a true genius, he made me laugh like no other and cry like no other.
It takes a very mean person indeed to eat his children bananas in times of rationing.
Brilliant.
You have to forgive John Julius as his mother was the most beautiful woman
In England Lady Diana Cooper.👀
He should have been christened Evilyn
I'll weigh in on the side of Evelyn Waugh, since the like only comes once in a generation.
Apparently this man enjoys tearing down the reputation of an admired artist. What did he do? Fathered a child with director John Huston's wife. I have no idea how hard Lord Julius worked but he certainly had everything handed to him and as far as I know did not produce the enjoyment Evelyn Waugh did.
Well said indeed. A self-righteous hypocrite.
He didn't write fiction - or at least, I only read his non fiction. I enjoyed that.
The "giving directions" story is almost certainly true. But Waugh also would have thought it wickedly funny. Several of his MANY friends say the thing you have to undrstand about EW was that almost everything he said and did was meant to be funny. There is no doubt he could be snobbish and cruel but he had many friends and his friends adored him. And so did his children. It sounds very much to me that lady Diana Cooper may herself have been trying to be a bit funny. She certainly liked having him around, and so did Ann Fleming when married to Ian. You can find other interpretations of the banana story.
"You can find other interpretations of the banana story."
- So offer some.
Seems to run in the family.
Amazing how often some boozy, drug addled abusive philanderer of a writer or artist gets a free pass as a "tortured genius", but Waugh is constantly hauled up on charges of being, erm... rather rude and petty.
Superb writer though.
He saw the 20's, though.
He seems determined to tell not very nice stories about Evelyn Waugh. Not very nice.
Who is this?
John Julius Norwich (1929-2018) was a popular historian, travel writer, and television personality.
His father was Duff Cooper, whose wife Lady Diana was Waugh’s friend. In his diaries Waugh describes Duff Cooper once telling him to leave the house. Their son seems to play down the fact that his father really despised Waugh and only put up with him for the sake of his wife.
He ate all 7 bananas just to show, it's only a f*ckin banana.
Legend has it my mother (8 when the war ended) was sick on meeting her first banana. Yet she grew to love banana sandwiches immensely.
According to Auberon Waugh in ‘Fathers and Sons’ it was 3 bananas.
Really?
Not the nicest of people, to put it mildly.
If Waugh wasn’t nice, why did they have him round so often? Doesn’t make sense.
MrDavey2010 Because he was one of the greatest novelists of the 20th century?
he made a mean pasty
@@chrish12345 Very mean.
Hardly any meat in it at all.
@@chrish12345 🤣. Touche
They wanted the bragging rights of knowing Waugh, ie, they were every bit the snobs they accuse Waugh of being. Back-biting hypocrites as well.
An argumentative, greedy, cruel man, who frightened Mr. Norwich's mother
who declared himself "Catholic".And if one knows anything about the Catholic system of
faith, one can truly and objectively understand why he was so drawn to it.
Might be because, as I think Hilaire Belloc (another English Catholic literary great, but a pugnacious man) once said: "Catholicism is the religion for sinners" ?
@@andrewg.carvill4596 It is the religion of the pathetic and the hopeless and the pathetic and hopelessly violent.
Only a man of low socio-sexual ranking could speak about another man like this. He's nursing some hurt, and needs to get over it.
YES!!
Who?
John-Julius?
He was a Viscount, AND successfully wrote and had offspring.
He is an old man, WHO WAS THERE, and simply giving his opinion of people who socialised with his parents.
How would you know anything?
EW was just the best….read his diaries and letters…..Norwich is just a talentless nobody.
But he did cheat on his wife…. With his own daughter no less!
the fact he was religious would explain the hatred in his so-called 'soul'
Brilliant and illuminating analysis , thank you so much for sharing your insights .
that, or the other way round
He needed Church. So do you. Guess who the famous novelist is and guess who's writing sad anti Christian jibes on CZcams.
@@aclark903 I never mentioned Christianity - isn't it a shame that some people cannot rein-in their brainwashed fascism and ad hominem attacks to confront, defend and potentially reassess their delusions by means of rational debate?
@@chrish12345 Yes it is Chris, you should do something about that. Read more.