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Is China Much Richer Than We Thought?
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- čas přidán 18. 08. 2024
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Yes, We Chinese are very poor. Most people are starving. Transportation is awful. The roads are broken and dirty. Most people drive old bicycles. We don't even have subways. We wear worn-out clothes. The cities look so poor. If these make western media happy, yes ,they are.
Don't forget, only the Western MSMs know what is happening.
That may not be the case for you and your family, but The sad reality is that for approximately 90% of your countrymen, that’s exactly the case
@bigmedge 😂😂😂😂well u joking right?
@@gideongiggie5017 cope with reality bro
@@bigmedge what reality boy?? Don't try selling me non without facts lmao
This guy can never dare to mention the PPP stats from the IMF. This is very telling already.
In one of my first year university classes it taught us about how factual statistics can be used to peddle any narrative you want through careful selection. Sort of like taking a factual quote without showing its context.
😅Sometimes I feel that a simple trip to China can make you figure out what's right and what's wrong, it's not that hard as you might think
I went to China 3 times. It is as what I expected. Not in a good way.
@@johnmcgill3603 I believe in you
@@johnmcgill3603你上次去是什么时候？
There are some rich areas and some poor. It's not black and white. The government has a lot of money though to spend on infrastructure
travel to china would make u feel time travel to next several decades
I feel western people focus too much on bringing china down than focusing on improving themselves and be more competitive 🤷♂️
Not really, they are just telling people what china themselves should tell
Paparazzi style
If not for "western people", entire China will still be living in poverty. You think those factories and technology came out of thin air?
Chinese people also not trusting their own, goverment sponsored news media. Fair trade
@@pranavingale6850more like westerner want to lecture the world to do as they command, EU and US rejected democracy and human right pled on UN against the rest of the world, not really a place to tell what others should tell in according to their self-fish interest.
As a Chinese I'm still quite satisfied. Because in general, prices are not high. I usually buy clothes within $20~$100, and shoes too. For food, there is a huge price difference from shop to shop. But if you don't go to the expensive shops, it's totally acceptable. Vegetables are usually like 2 USD/kg, pork is 4 USD/kg, chicken breast is almost 3 USD/kg, prawns are 7 USD/kg. There's a huge price difference in rice, but I usually just buy the $1.50/kg, which isn't particularly good, but it tastes ok. For travelling, the high speed train from Beijing to Shanghai, 1200km, 4 hours, is almost US$70. City trains used to be $0.3 USD for any length, but now the price has gone up to almost $1 USD / 6 hours or less. Taxis are slightly more expensive, but I usually ride my bike. For bike sharing, it's about US$1 for 30km (I hardly ever use it, I use my own bike, so I might not remember the price very well).
Electricity and running water are cheap, so cheap that I can barely remember the prices, I'll check. It turned out to be less than $0.1/kWh, and $0.3/cubic metre.
The most expensive thing in China is houses, and by that I mean big cities, where prices are really too high. Even in the more remote areas of Beijing, a house of about 100 square metres costs about US$1 million. But if it's not a big city, it's ok. If it's a county or rural area, it's very cheap (one of my family's houses in a small county, with over 700 square metres of living space, reaps just over US$1000 a year in rent ......)
If you don't buy imported goods, but only domestic ones, they are all so-called "cabbage prices", and the domestic factories, with all the white-hot competition, can be said to have good prices. Chinese people's greatest happiness should be cheap things, especially industrial goods. I often watch some vloggers talking about local prices in foreign countries, such as cars, refrigerators, mobile phones, etc., dumbfounded: this is too expensive!
I hardly ever drink Coca-Cola, but have noticed the prices are odd. It seems that the 2.5L jumbo bottle is about $1.50, but the 350ml small bottle seems to be $0.50, which is a very unreasonable unit price per litre.
KFC and the like, occasionally travelling can only eat, although it is junk food, but not always eat also no problem. A burger + a few chicken wings, almost $7 or so.
Cigarettes, the cheapest about 1.5 US dollars a carton, expensive is too expensive, the average person can not afford to buy.
Spirits are usually very expensive, industrial beer is very cheap, the cheapest, usually $0.5/600ml.
School fees and medical care, if public schools and public hospitals, are not expensive. But private schools and hospitals are very expensive, but the very strange thing is that China's public schools and hospitals are not bad, and even the public schools are better than the private ones, it's just that the competition is extremely fierce. So those children who fail to compete in public schools, if their parents are richer, will have to spend huge amounts of money and send their children to private schools.
I know nothing about economics, but have never believe the so-called GDP. For example, some years ago, the Chinese Communist Party said that it would make Beijing a bicycle-friendly city, and I was very concerned about it because I like cycling.
The fact that hundreds of kilometres of greenways for bicycles only have been built in the past few years, and that there is now a greenway along the river right in front of my house, has given me a great sense of well-being, and I've been going to the river for a few tens of kilometres when I'm not doing anything, but lately it's been so cold that I've switched to running instead, and there are three plastic running tracks being built nearby. (I used to criticize the CCP daily on the internet for having a national sports system and hosting the Olympics without allocating funds to build sports venues for the public. However, I no longer criticize them because many free sports facilities have indeed been constructed. It doesn't matter to me which Olympics, Winter Olympics, or Asian Games they organize. What's important to me is having my own place to exercise.)
I mean, all this infrastructure (also including 40,000km of high-speed rail, and the crazy highways being built all over the place, water facilities, etc., etc., etc.) may be a very large GDP investment by Western standards, but it's not that expensive in China, so if you calculate it by the so-called GDP, it doesn't really reflect the real economic situation, right? After all, it's the people who enjoy these facilities for whom the experience is real.
I know absolutely nothing about economics, so I may be wrong. But it does seem to be the case.
I think it would be better to cite some numbers that are only meaningful to the average person. in 2022, China's life expectancy is 78.2 years per capita, and the US is 77.5 years, but per capita healthcare GDP, the US is dozens of times that of China. I don't think that kind of GDP would make much sense.
Meat per capita can be consumed at 102kg per year, close to the EU level. Vegetable consumption per capita, no doubt the world's first, with an annual output of 800 million tonnes. 2022, the national per capita fruit possession is 221.68 kg.
I studied science and engineering and trust numbers more. When residents of Taiwan province previously mocked mainland residents for not being able to afford eggs, it was obvious that they believed the media propaganda. In fact, the mainland's annual per capita consumption of 300 eggs is the second highest in the world (the first being Hong Kong SAR of China), and eggs are a cheap food in the mainland, almost 15 eggs /$.
Consumption in producing countries is pretty sturdy. I buy an electronic accessory, order it online, it might be as little as $0.50, free postage, delivered to my home thousands of kilometres away, in about 3 days. (The so-called almighty Taobao, only you can't think of anything you can't buy). It's a combination of industry, materials industry and infrastructure.
Keep in mind thst while the cost of living in china can seem wuite low you can't really trust the "value" you're getting per $
Food with tons of pestocides heavy metals industrial contaminents etc... DYE literally painted and fake foods are also a big issue (as well as spoiled snd poorly refrigirated food and etc)
Electricity sure... cheap (and much more so for companies rather then households... extremly subsidized...)
But said electricity is often produced with coal...
Air quality is a massive issue
There are also other issues such as consturction quality (aka literally crumbling inferstractures) google it... tofu dreg construction
Heslthcare.... sure on paper "free" except you need to basiclly bribe the dr
And even so standards not only are pretty bad with tcm and all sorts of crap pushed eveywhere it's pretty poor value per $
Etc etc etc... so yeah while cost of living in china may be incredibly cheap i'd suggest you stay withing a somwhat normal of a third world/middle income country... (like south smerica or easten europe) where things can be as cheap but with some quality standards.... no buckets of cancerous chemical in the food for example
(Edit: forgot to say...)
Remeber cheap ≠ good value...
There's an ancient good old say (idk if chinese) "buy cheap ,buy twice" (or another vsrients is "the cheap man pays twice/buys twice")
(Anyway yeah idk don't think it's originslly chinese/translates well but a good old accurate say)
@@donotlike4anonymus594 yo hong kong price does not equal mainland price, example:In mainland water per bottle cost 2RMB, but in HongKong water cost 10$
(1$ almost = 1RMB)
I am Vietnamese, a neighboring country to China. I think China will develop very quickly because they have smart and hardworking people. A big country and will be a developed country in the future
Wut
@@johnestoce1503 Wut? What do you mean?
They're done developing. You guys are developing rapidly and so are the rest of Southeast Asia.
@@patrickt49 Bruh they're still growing at around 5%. That's far from being 'done developing'.
Let’s not make the West jealous. They tend to invent reasons to invade people when that happens.
Just to save everyone's time, here is his conclusion:
He cited research papers to try and answer the question:
4 papers saying Official GDP is overstated
1 paper saying the GDP is undervalued
4 GDP saying the GDP is correct
In the end he does not seem to draw his own opinions about the matter.
Welcome!
Should have scrolled down the comments section before wasting my time on this useless presentation.
@@phillipchan6044 It's not useless. That was the whole point of the video - to show how many different alternate measures and studies there have been, with wildly differing results and flaws. YT is now inundated in videos hyping up one of those papers or the other, but in this vid we can see that there's a whole range of them and so we really can't be sure of any of their conclusions.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn what he said was what I already know, so isn't it a waste of time
@@ArawnOfAnnwn US GDP grow 3 TIMES since 1997... do average American actually feel 3 times richer ? -
@@johnsmith-cw3wokeyword is "feel", lol
If compared to China and the United States, China's electricity generation, manufacturing output, and agricultural output are all twice that of the United States. However, the actual GDP of the United States is larger than that of China. I was surprised to see who was overestimated.
Other than cheap basic consumer goods , none of the sectors you listed have anywhere near as high an output in China as they do in the US
That's why my question about China's acutal GDP is still not answered after watching the video.
The index is missing far too many further parameters and only displays the industrial prodcuction of a country. We know that advanced economies all have a dominant service sector so the US is probably still far ahead economically.
@@bigmedgesure USA has those overprice toilet and cup in the military, corruption are legalised in the state and that contribute to GDP as well.
Nope, China's GDP is $33 trillion whilst the usa is at $26 trillion. @@NineDiamont
Guys, you should believe professional economists on this professional topic, instead of this random channel with so apparent bias.
The yearly PPP data from the IMF is the most authoritative source about your puzzle.
I have traveled to over 30 countries and I would say that China´s GDP is much lower than claimed. Nearly every city in China are looking better, having better technologies and the public transportation are much better than the US or other countries. Also in Europe not a single city can beat cities like Shanghai, Hangzhou, Chongqing, Shenzhen, Beijing or Guangzhou, also 2nd Tier cities in China are looking very good. Maybe London come close. Only Tokyo or Singapore are worth to mention.
That's why this Visual something guy will never go to China.
@@bin.s.s. he won't go out of his computer room
Is that a typo? I think you meant Chinese GDP is higher than claimed, not lower.
@@xye-NYC oh sorry you are right, my mistake :)
Accidental irony in the first sentence you got there lmao I'm impressed.
china auto sale 27 million. India auto sale 5 million. China :India ratio: 5:1.
China GDP 18 trillion USD. India GDP 3 trillion USD. China : India ratio: 6:1.
unless both China and India both manipulate their GDP, otherwise , China GDP and India GDP are really accurate, because both countries can cross reference each other for their data.
on the otherhand.
US auto sale 15 million. China auto sale 27 million. USA :China ratio: 0.7:1
USA GDP 27 billion, china 18 billion. USA: China ration: 1.5:1
this shows USA GDP is over rated .
Hahah, you sound like just saying random stuff, so funny. Totally worth the 0.50 yuan they pay you for this, hahahahaha
The numbers doesn't actually matters. The thing is Chinese get to live in their own house without paying property tax. Their options and quality of food is much better than the US. The health care system is so affordable that people go to the ER just for a common cold. And now Chinese also have the best cars available with a toyota price. I lived in both countries, so I know the difference very well and decided to stay in China.
😂😂😂😂
My chinese friends told a different story. Some of their relative recently died because of expensive hospital bill.
@@notme943 There is a lot of anti-China propaganda in the air, but the numbers don't lie. The Chinese life expectancy have already surpassed the US and still growing.
@@notme943 It's would be credible if you said "friend" not "friendS" recently told you that.
@@vocvoc9895 its up to you. I wont try to convince you otherwise.
But as an individual in China many of my transactions done through WeChat was not counted as GDP yet
Transactions done on WeChat should not be counted as GDP. GDP does not come from transactions.
还有我😂
The answer is : Every country including advanced countries is guilty of "manipulating" their data, not just the authoritarian regimes. At the end of the day, VisualEconomik still hasn't given me a conclusive verdict, just hypotheses.
The research that tries to correlate data between GDP and light levels at night is very telling, especially regarding the level of data manipulation between democratic countries and authoritarian countries.
Yer. Visual politick has gone down hill in a few of their videos
He is just a typical Western propagandist trying to sound factual and knowledgeable.
Just look at the wages of Chinese citizens and the cost of living in China. You can’t trust the GDP numbers.
ikr
China be like: Act strong when you are weak, act weak when ou are strong. Confused the crap out of your opponent, and you automatically win.
More like: Push face above everything. Even if its expensive, dangerous or simply stupid - so long as it makes you look good aboard that is all that matters. We're talking about a government that prioritised covering up a bridge with panels (to prevent camera's from seeing the bridge adjacent to that one collapsing), rather than saving the people still in their cars that were on an instable structure.
Its also why the CCP's reported Covid fatalities were so low, despite the fact that crematoriums in China were working 24/7 for months on end during the pandemic.
@@ShadowPhoenixMaximus China was getting rid of a lot of elderly people. Only old people in China were dying. That was why they had all the lockdowns, etc. They didn't want people to know what they were up to. Almost all hospital videos were filled up with elderly people. There's evidence to suggest that China did in fact kill a lot of elderly people.
@@ShadowPhoenixMaximus Ccp can't go wrong when facing an opponent which creates aircraft carrier money pits and sink billions of unrecoverable dollars in wars like ukraine, palestine, afghanistan and iraq and vietnam. Basically an opponent that keeps shooting itself in the foot. It actually can afford to overspend and make mistakes bcos most succesful business men tell u that's the only way to learn and if your opponent is making worse mistakes, you're blesses.
If that is the case why China is no longer "We will surpass the USA in no time and beat the cr*p out of the democratic world" and instead facing huge economic then ask for a better relationship with the USA instead? Don't you dare say because China is peaceful loving country, as an Asian that is not the case at all.
I think the West just comes up with delusions about China because the West doesn't really know anything about CHina so in reality the West just confuses itself
Argentina's GDP figure doesn't represent its actual GDP, since it uses the official exchange rate for US Dollars, while in reality, the Peso is significantly less valuable and depreciating fast, so its actual dollar-denominated GDP is also significantly lower
Arguably, no one's GDP figures represent their actual GDP, and every country is distorted in its own way (see: Ireland and offshoring)
@@hieronymusbutts7349 That's cos GDP has always been an estimate. When these videos argue over whether China's GDP is bigger or smaller, they're always treating the figure in general as a lot more precise than it ever is. The line about the margin for error being wide enough to afford a fair lot of wiggle room is in the very nature of all GDP figures.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn agreed, though questions about how wide that margin of error is is the real crux of the problem, not that there is one. I don't know what to think, so I assume that China's numbers are generally accurate, likely inclined to slight inflation. The alternative - seeing it unlikely China would underrepresent its strength - is that China is massively overstating its value, the ramifications of which on the global economy are so complex it's well beyond mine or anyone's ability to understand. Assuming "generally accurate, maybe a little high" still provides a meaningful way to estimate future developments - if the Chinese economy is actually half of what it's stated, then all bets are off when it comes to how the bezzle is revealed.
@@hieronymusbutts7349 a fraction of a percent up or down isn’t a big deal but 1-2% more overestimation is pretty big. Just imagine if you were to overstate a gdp growth figure by 1% every year consistently. With compound growth over 10 years that is about 20% of the economy.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn I don’t think anyone think GDP is exactly precise. But what people do think that China is a lot less precise than other countries and a lot more on the higher side every year.
Whaaaaat? Just 60 percent? I know for sure their GDP is less than Sri Lanka. The buildings in Shanghai are made of cardboard.
Yes we totally trust indian pajeed😂
I rent a one bed room app in San Francisco for USD 3,500. This add USD 42,000 in the US Gdp count. Right. Even if the appartment is in a neighborhood of hundreds homeless, drug addicts, shoplifters ect. In China same appartment in far better environment, the rent will cost 10 times cheaper but add only USD 4,200 to the GDP of China.
You must remember service income like rentals throughout China were not even record in China's GDP. Also, cash revenue from towns & villages on restaurants were not even recorded in the GDP. These services revenue for whole China could be as high as US$2 Trillions or more.
Almost all Asian countries have a formal and informal economy. Normally Informal economics never get counted in official figures .
in Italy they do count it
but china also drastically over represents that official figure because the 'provinces' pr whatever the correct name for the smaller administrations over represent GDP to keep in line with the GDP expectations of the national government.
@@hagalathekido Did you watch the video? They literally brought this up, and pointed out that the central govt. adjusts it down to account for that. And in general GDP is always an estimate. When these videos argue over whether China's GDP is bigger or smaller, they're always treating the figure in general as a lot more precise than it ever is. The line about the margin for error being wide enough to afford a fair lot of wiggle room is in the very nature of all GDP figures.
Black market
No taxes
No future
@@hagalathekido The US counts overpriced goods, rent, and other non-production industries as GDP too, but they count every single bit of it whereas China does not account for rent and certain subsidized items/services. Just because a cancer drug is $280 in China but $30,000 in the USA doesn't mean one country is doing "more" than the other. Its the same item, but GDP favors the US.
How much is the US GDP really worth when accounting for such huge discrepancies? Is GDP even a good metric? Something to think about.
Rip to Chinese names in this videos. Li Ke Qiang name's getting butchered even in death.
This really feels like a clickbait video where you took one outlier study with old data to make a video that didn’t give any relevant analysis. Certainly not relevant to the present
I think hearing "Lee Key Kyang" what felt like 400 times can be considered a traumatic event.
Yeah, please try to look up the pronunciations first. It's pronounced more like Lee Ker Chee-On.
Kerchiang! Kerchiang! You'd think someone, anyone on the team let alone the managers would have run it past a native speaker, or put his name into Google
Yes. At 4:10, the quote reader pronounced "keqiang" more accurately/correctly - "Kerchang" is a little bit closer to "Ker Chiang".
Leaky kyang
literarily the 1st time i heard him pronounce it I died a little inside, I don't think i can take 400 more
The first study you show with the graph is a study of light at night vs economic development and it shows China is exaggerating their economic output. It seems like you didn't read the study correctly?
As a Chinese student studying in Europe, I can tell you that it is really hard for me to believe that China is still a developing country. If you have the chance, I suggest that you go to China to have a look, and don't easily believe in what is propagated by the western media, what you see with your eyes is the real thing. There is advanced technology, perfect infrastructure and no so-called social credit.
你个显眼包
其实挺好的，中国可以继续在WTO享受发展中国家的优惠，扩大出口。
战忽局同志的工作都被你破坏了🥲
低调，低调，猥琐发育。
？？？
Full respect, this guy knows China better than all the ministers in China cabinet. If China wants to improve itself, they should hire him as adviser or even make him the Prime Minister overseeing the entire country ❤😊😂
Definitely a joke, right? This guy is a China expert in disguise but a China hater in his core. Can't you sense that.
🤣🤣🤣
If China was poorer it would not be the largest consumer market in the world. As someone who have been to China, the common people are buying things on the daily from new expensive Electric cars to grocery stores to luxurious brands. it is kind of hard to sell the whole China is poor narrative when you see how lively the market is here. Sea people, mountain people.
China isn’t the largest consumer market in terms of revenue. Plus, while China’s urban areas are decently wealthy, the vast majority of people live in rural or town areas, and even by world standards are pretty poor.
@DMZZ369 ?
@DMZZ369一定要多支持这些美国人的观点，让他们觉得中国很穷要完蛋了，这样的人越多越好❤😂
@@defintity_9951you tell the truth bro ，respect from jail in ccp 🎉❤
At 1:25 time you were referring to an article by reuters which was published on December 6, 2010. Date can be seen at time 1:25 time. I was wondering if this really okay to refer to 13 years old article and claiming something based on that on todays reality ?
China really enjoys an economy of scale.
Even if only 20% of the population is rich with a Western-level standard of living you are talking about nearly 300 million people- that is huge.
The problem arises when you are reminded of the rest of the population, over a billion people who are expecting to get to that same standard of living and this is where it gets tricky- You can't have an inverted Pyramid.
I hope China is rich enough to survive the coming deflation and stagnation due to demographic problems without resorting to a violent outcome. I think they can learn from Japan and pull through. I hope they do for all of our sakes.
1.3 billion people in China have a monthly wage under 5000 RMB. Of those 1.3 billion, 600 million of them make less than 1000 RMB a month. This figure is straight out of CCP (Le Keqiang's mouth) so the actual figure can only be worse.
Basically China got a long way to go from "20% of the population is rich". It's more like less than 5% aren't poor by western standards and less than1% is actually "Rich".
@@makochin around 6% of the country lives in 1st tier cities of Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen and Guangzhou. then you still have Hong Kong, Macau and "new 1st tier cities" like Chongqing, Tianjin, Wuhan, Chengdu, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Qingdao and several others which are another 10% of the population. this is hardly just 1% of people with a "1st world" standard of living...
@@makochinwait? You trust data from CCP? You trust what CCP said?
@@wumaobot I don't trust data from the CCP so it's most likely worst than what CCP is stating.
Unless you believe CCP is under reporting.
@@OlJackBurton Just living in those cities don't mean they have 1st world standard of living.
We have standard measurements for these things. Under 5000 RMB a month is not rich by those standards.
What this should be telling people is, " Don't invest in China because you can't trust the numbers."
No one believes in China 😅
Nah, you should do the opposite. China is the coolest place in the world and its market is dope🌏
So who do you trust?
Thing is, if you have the actual numbers, you’d be in possession of state secrets.
@@yungunit8299 companies that follow GAAP and western accounting standards. They are required to have open books and justify numbers. China refuses and that's why their companies get delisted.
China's GDP is set according to the 2016 yuan rate. This means that the value of China's GDP is calculated using the exchange rate of the yuan to the US dollar that was in effect in 2016.
If China were to set its GDP according to the current exchange rate, its GDP would be approximately 5% higher than if it were set according to the 2022 exchange rate.
@Hasan-pj6wp Nominal GDP is based on the currency of the country in question, then exchanged to USD that year based on the conversion that year. So 2016 used 2016 exchange rate figures, and 2022 would use 2022 exchange rate figures. You cant use 2022 exchange rate figures for 2016.
Assuming India actual GDP of 3,75 Trillion is correct. Let's compare it to China when China GDP was declared to be same 3,75 Trillion that is in 2007 which is one year before Beijing 2008 Olympic games. At that time Chinese first tiers cities already had awesome infrastructure, high speed trains were already a reality, China sent men in space several times already. India today has none of these attributes. So in my opinion, China understate it's economic size.
It's not because of money, it's because of the ease of doing construction projects, you see ccp wants a high speed rail...done.....highway to nowhere.....done, other white elephant projects..... done, in a country like india government is answerable to everyone and also here government cannot just kick out people, eg. Land acquisition takes forever....and shiny infrastructure does not mean it's understated....last but not least their own officials believe GDP is exaggerated.....so next time my friend!!
Highway to nowhere? Source: trust me bro.😂😂
@@IamHandsome4u GDP understatement? Source: trust me bro
GDP overstatement? Source:Premier li keqiang who is in charge of economics too: trust me bro.😂😂😂😂
Your forgot to mention China's tasty drinking water 😒
@pranavingale6850 how come the high speed train or massive infrastructure will come without money?. If Indian government can't have the power to build houses , trains or other basic needs for the people then what is the purpose of having the government?. Look like your opinion is leaving people to live in a slum because they are not willing to move to apartment is the best government?.
Really don't think one can gauge a country's economy by its lights, neither by saying because a similar country/ govt / political ideology does x as a precedent, means we can apply it to China now as they must do it too. Really missing the empirical mark here.
Very true. Measuring economic progress by lights is a bad index if not outright propagandistic. It's because technology improves and a very bright light isn't needed. Now led and many improvements in lighting technology means more lights but still not as much brightness.
That was the whole point of the video - to show how many different alternate measures and studies there have been, with wildly differing results and flaws. YT is now inundated in videos hyping up one of those papers or the other, but in this video we can see that there's a whole range of them and so we really can't be sure of any of their conclusions.
@@ArawnOfAnnwnthere are millions of lights in LAS VEGAS, American Translation: L.V is the Richest place on Earth...😂
Can you do the same digging to the US GDP, please. I want to know whether I should trust US figures?
It's actually pointless. Western analysts interpret data to suit their analysis which fluctuates(often complete opposites) not only year to year but week to week and even day to day.
GDP is, by definition, measured in USD terms for all countries and territories so domestic US fiscal and economic policies can skew the GDP of the USA and other countries, even by simply changing the USD exchange rate. For example, the US Fed raising interest rates can immediately inflate the US's GDP per capita and lower those of other countries (especially if those other countries don't increase their own interest rates to maintain the exchange rate), and make USD denominated debt obligations more expensive for those other countries. PPP cannot fully compensate for this USD bias, especially since PPP is itself highly theoretical and estimated.
Further, the USA has engaged in massive money printing in recent times, though little of the money is given directly to the people; instead it's typically used to fund government programs (which then become wages paid to government workers and indirectly injected into the economy) and for quantitative easing (ie. the US Fed buying up securities in the market). The latter, when combined with super low interest rates for over 10 years, created massive growth in the financial industry and huge windfalls for institutions and individuals exposed to finance (e.g. bankers, corporate lawyers, CEOs, tech entrepreneurs and even in demand computer programmers at cashed up startups). That also led to massive growth in asset values, including real estate values, which benefits owners and investors. That said, asset value growth is theoretical until you sell the asset, and values can eventually drop. Nevertheless, that value growth increases GDP in the meantime (though this obviously applies to all economies, including China).
But almost no other country other than the USA can print money like this without causing high inflation; hence the USA benefits enormously from the USD being the de facto reserve currency of the world and the primary currency for international trade and finance. In effect, other countries are helping to prop up the USD to allow the US government to print cash and pay for the US's expenses and grow its GDP.
Further, much of the GDP growth has been concentrated in the aforementioned high end industries and amongst high income earners, while the "average" American worker has benefitted very little, thus expanding the wealth gap. If you just look at how much the USA's GDP per capital has increased since the GFC (around USD 48k in 2009 to USD 76k in 2023, an over 50% increase), there's no way that the average American is earning 50% more or even feels remotely richer.
So to answer your question, it's not just about whether to "trust" the US's figures, it's more about analysing what GDP is and how it's measured. Overall, GDP a fairly theoretical and unreliable figure, but which can still be useful at times.
If compared to China and the United States, China's electricity generation, manufacturing output, and agricultural output are all twice that of the United States. However, the actual GDP of the United States is larger than that of China. I was surprised to see who was overestimated.
@@adder88Those don’t necessarily apply to comparing these countries and both countries have very different models and advancement.
In terms of food production, it’s self explanatory because China has 4 times the population.
For manufacturing, it is only one component of an economy, and the US as well as other high-tech/advanced economies are primary service based.
As for electricity generation, it isn’t so much GDP growth correlating to electricity generation, but also the efficiency of electricity use. The US energy consumption has stayed relatively the same for 30 years, but no sane person suggests that the US economy hasn’t grown over those years, rather that is only because electricity is being more efficiently used.
@@adder88 , You can judge the GDP by comparing the flipping of hamburgers at us$15 per hour in the US against any Chinese eating store which can provide much more varieties for your lunch or dinner at that price.
The night time light sensor data is the most reliable one. But if you extend it to after 2016, that night light growth will underperform the official GDP, some Chinese economists did the follow up study.
I have trust issue with a youtuber discussing about China matters and could barely pronounce correctly any Chinese name. CANCEL!
The important things for ordinary people is living index. An average retired person is Shanghai, China has a pension about USD 1000 which is possible for a person to live if he has a home in the city
If it is payed out that is.
i prefer using the Local Purchasing Power index, as it seems better for highlighting the economic differences for most people. if USA scores 100 and china Scores 50, then most Chinese have half the purchasing power of what most americans do. You'd double your economic power by moving from China to USA,while if you looked at nominal and ppp gdp per capita numbers, it might seem like the difference would be 4 times better, hence missrepresent the real differences when comparing life in one country to the next.
The problem here is that PPP isn't even close to uniform within a region, nevermind a country as a whole. The purchasing power in NYC is much lower than the rest of NY, for example, because massive population density drives up demand there and squeezes prices higher.
@@hieronymusbutts7349 doing a cost comparsion between shanghai and NYC shows you'd have 77% better purchasing power living in NYC. while gdp per capita (ppp) would say you have a 311% better purchasing power in NYC compared to living in shanghai. gpd ppp is popular because it's simple, but often missrepresents the real diffrences between life in each country (economically).
@@averageadventure200 even within NYC, though, Brooklyn is way cheaper to live in than Manhattan. I'm not saying it's a bad comparison, just that the problems with isolating PPP into discrete population regions makes it very hard to compare apples to apples; it's best used in combination with other economic barometers than as a replacement index for GDP.
@@averageadventure200But bro I'm studying in Hangzhou and I have 2 friends studying in Shanghai and they easily get by with just 350 USD / month. Wtf are you talking about 😂.
You can also find many CZcamsrs who rent decent apartments in Shanghai for just 500 - 600 $ a month. And everything is so cheap in China overall, even if you live in Shanghai you can still buy everything on TaoBao, PinDuoDuo, etc. So you're absolutely clueless about how wealthy people in China actually are because of these low prices. Only buying an apartment is expensive, which is not necessary at all. Just rent and you will be fine and able to buy much more things for your salary than anywhere else on earth.
@@hieronymusbutts7349Same to you my dear (my previous comment, just to let you know).
Never know trees in China are grey.
As a video discussing the number of GDP, it surprised me that he even didn't show us what china's GDP number includes and doesn't include.
Here is your answer: the people in charge and their relations are MUCH richer than we thought. The vast majority of the population is MUCH poorer than we thought.
The opposite is probably more accurate because Western Democracies always assumed that the CPC leadership are utterly corrupt which is unlikely the case since the vast majority of the common people have seen their lives improving decade after decade.
have you been to china?
@@adamiskandar5107For sure just ask the Uyghers and Tibetans 🙄 SMH here's 50 cents Wumao Xi Jing pooh thanks you
@@walker5998 I have been living in southeast asia for about a year and a half. Not in China, but get a lot of local news from China and the economic issues they are having (and about the CCP members and their families moving their money overseas).
@@ajrodriguez8601 Do you think that only CPC members and their families are moving money overseas? The same could be said of the ruling/business/professional elites from all other countries, so this should be the least of your/our worries. The question is; why the PTB controlling the World Financial System could not tackle this problem of money laundering? Don't you see, they are encouraging this practice because it benefits them the most. Ever wondered why the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Putin and not Western leaders like Joe Biden, Benjamin Netanyahu, (and a very long list of Western leaders), the real war criminals?
China also build HSR to nowhere that means they use electricity with HSR
I like to compare fresh college graduate salaries to gauge a country’s development. In Beijing, a fresh local graduate starting pay is around ~USD1200/month, Seoul ~USD1100/m, Tokyo ~USD1800/m, Taipei ~USD1000/m, HongKong ~USD2300/m, Kuala Lumpur ~USD700/m, Manila ~USD300/m, Jakarta ~USD200/m, Singapore ~USD2600/m.
@shojunichi
That's a start. But the expences aren't the same in different countries.
I would also like to know the cost of necessary things like food, housing, and energy.
The Economist article at 1:48 is also based on a study about night lights, and it shows that China's economy is 60% smaller that it should be.
So, i don't understand how the other night light study can affirm that official GDP data are understated...
Moreover, it's increasingly clear that China lied about its population too. There are at least 100 million fewer Chinese than declared (some studied estimate up to 500 million). So, it's just unreasonable to actual expect GDP to be higher than officially declared. At best, it's the same.
If i had to guesstimate, i'd say that China's GDP and population are both ~25% lower than stated, therefore GDP per capita is about right.
《经济学人》可能忽视了一些其他的因素，地形因素。中国是一个多山的国家，绝大部分地区都是无法居住的山区，人口大量集中在少量平原地区。尤其是在中部，西部地区。这一一点和埃及很像，不知道你有没有注意过埃及的夜间灯光？一亿埃及人口几乎都集中在尼罗河三角洲，所以埃及的大部分区域也是黑的。
@@user-kl9hn7fj9l It's possible. I also don't understand how they can account for the "incandescent -> LED" transition, which isn't linear.
But the analysis seems very accurate for most countries, and China's population is not as focused as Egypt's. More like the USA.
The problem with a lot of these "China is actually Ethiopia" analysis is that it sounds too much like Western wishfull thinking. Truth is we will only find out how strong China is when they invade Taiwan
There are two real factor when considering the true size of China's economy:
1) In terms of GDP - nominal and/or GDP - PPP (factoring inflation);
Based on data from the IMF - the GDPs 0f China and the USA in year 2022 as follows: China -Nominal: USD 16.5 trillion (2022) / PPP: USD 30 trillion (2022); USA - Nominal: USD 23 trillion / PPP: USD 23 trillion.
2) Recalibrating the current USD exchange rate vis-à-vis RMB to a constant exchange value;
Nominal GDP of the USA in Year 2022 - USD 23 trillion.
Nominal GDP of China in year 2022 was RMB 120 trillion @USD 1 = RMB 6.85 = USD 17.5 trillion.
Nominal GDP - China in year 2023 estimated at RMB 127 trillion @USD 1 = RMB 7.05 (current) = USD 17.80 trillion.
Most economists would consider the true GDP of an economy in terms of Purchasing Power Parity where similar goods and services, assuming same quality, would costs within a country relative to other countries, using the USD as a common denominator.
Believe what you want! We will continue to live our best lives!
I am not familiar with the study that you referenced that would suggest that, based on satellite imagery depicting light, China's GDP is understated. There is a study by Luis Martinez that suggests that, based on this satellite data depicting light, autocratic governments tend to exaggerate or overstate their GDP by around 30 percent.
You know what’s the problem with western countries they are living in 2014 China 🇨🇳 😂😂😂😂😂😂
We need to factor in two things when evaluating just how rich China is. One is the fact that they have a population of nearly 1.4 billion people which "dilutes" the country's enormous national GDP among so many people, and two, the fact that the equivalent dollar amount of income in China buys so much more for the money spent. One could go to a nice, clean restaurant in a major city in any of the provinces and get a lunch or dinner for $3.00 to $4.00 (US dollar equivalent) or less. It takes far less money to live in China than it does in the West. Even the average income of a typical Social Security recipient could in theory, live a solid middle-class lifestyle there instead of being part of the poverty level population in the US.
Quoting national GDP figures rarely present an accurate picture of the standard of living in any given country. Another little mentioned fact is that China has surpassed the US in PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) about 6-7 years ago. Again, like in the example I gave above, it's not how much gross money or income you have, but how much that amount you can purchase with it. I think Westerners, especially political and business leaders are living in denial that we're getting beat by the Chinese.
The question people asked simply shows that they're not capable of understanding China. It's just similar, or even more exaggerating than asking if Europeans are rich or not.
If China were to manipualte its GDP figures, it will almost definitely downwards to show that it is poorer than it actually is. Evidence of this comes from the fact that China is unwilling to give up its "developing nation" status. It will benefit China far more if it appears to the outside world as a poor country which will attract much less attention from the established powers.
not correct, because China want to show its people that it is growing
@@huanghermann5207 There was no need for China to show its people with the growing numbers. Instead, people feel it. Twenty years ago, cars are considered as luxury goods for regular Chinese. Today, so many families own their own cars that the biggest problem becomes where to park them in major cities. When China started building its first high speed railway in late 2000s, many people were questioning whether the people could afford it. Today, high speed railways become part of daily life for Chinese people. Similarly, there are skyscrapers, shopping malls, computers, smart phones, exotic foods... If you have been living in China in the last two to three decades, you know how people's life has been dramatically changed.
China cheats every chance it gets. Having "developing nation" status enables them to get dole outs. But what kind of "developing nation" has a space program? It really makes you wonder what their priorities are. But then again North Korea has a space program and they are where they are.
@@yangshujian More like China needs to show its strong growth to attract more foreign direct investments.
Local officials have a lot of incentives to have high gdp. So it is more likely that gdp actually lower than stated. Chinas economy is actually 20% lower than they say.
Well, when describing China, you must add filters, the darker the color, the better.
Are hospital bills and litigations considered into GDP figures?
dont know, but its the informal economy that is not being counted, probably 1/3 of the population.
You missed the studies that suggest that the population is vastly over estimated… which would then push the GDP per capita up significantly 😂
That is also evidence that the demographic cliff is even closer and steeper.
I live in the UK. I also went to China every year for over a decade before COVID. It is telling that the standard of living of ordinary people in China appears to have surpassed that of the bottom half of citizens of the UK in recent years.
Wages on average may be a third in China compared to those in the UK, but prices in China, even in major cities excepting Beijing and Shanghai are a fifth to a tenth what they are here. Moreover, whereas small towns in China can be significantly cheaper than large cities, in the UK, there are no cheap enclaves. Prices vary by 15 to 20% at most regardless of where you are.
So from a standard of living stand point (and also from the point of view of infrastructure and manufacturing - respectively, degraded, and almost completely offshored in the UK) China is not just 20% richer than reported, but considerably more so.
In the 70 and 80's China was the land of bicycles. The last time I was in China was in 2014. I was very impress by their big cities but still I was shocked to learn 3 or 4 years later that Huawei dominated 5G in in both quality and volume in the world, it was said it was 2 years ahead of the everyone else at the time! Last year I learn that China became the #1 auto exporter in the world beating the US, Germany and Japan! I was both shocked and awe. Looking backed 20 or 30 years, every few years I would be shocked and awe by the new economic progress made by China. So, therefore I have to concluded China's economy has always been unrated.
Even in the 90s bicycles were everywhere. Things have changed a lot.
Instead of unprofessionally speculate, maybe just quote data from IMF or World Bank, which are the expert in macro economies.
Chinese gdp is rooted at its manufacture sector, much more 'real' than some Western countries whose gdp are basically 'virtual' and money games.
At least China didn't colony any country to development economy.
At the end of the day, the improvement of life is a truer measure of the health of the economy and some obvious signs are the increase in infrastructure, the number of tourists going overseas, the increase of graduates, the import of luxury items and export revenue greater than cost of import and finally the low unemployment rate. All the reporting of various indices which reflect some aspect of the economy are subjective. Perhaps, the Genie Index ultimately is the best measure.
A better way is to use production and manufature of tangible goods as a measure: all factiry productions, all infrastructure construction, minéral production, agricultural productions etc. This would give a much better measure of the economy.
My favourite is Mean of &< growth in import>
Chinese who live in countryside, their houses and land are free(for farmers only). This is diffrent with most countries.
Usa: china is a threat
Also USA: china is a paper tiger
They just say what they want according to the timing to meet the crowd's desire, like a jester and a whole bunch of idiots
At least this show hates China in the nicest way possible.
Of course, it's driven by Fear, Hate, Jealousy 😂
According to the "Economy," hilarious.
Really should've talked about GDP per capita (PPP)!
He wouldn't say that... That could crash his feelings 😂
A lot of these Asian countries are underestimating their GDP as there are huge benefits when they export their goods as a developing country.
How does that make their GDP bigger?
@@CJ-re7bx that makes their gdp based on US dollars less, but it actually grows faster cuz their money is relatively underestimate so it's cheaper to buy their product, hence remain the industry power in their country
It's crazy how all these analysis of China are done by western CZcamsrs who have never been to China.
I live in China. The many brightly lit skyscrapers are all empty inside
but they do have owners. and bills are being paid.
A better index would be the availability of what people really need. Such as food, energy, and housing. Perhaps also education.
I think China actually know a lot more about how the people perceive their affluence. That's something the government cares about in that country. Probably more than the US government cares about theirs.
You know that China is a one party democracy, always striving to make the public happy.
While the USA has two parties, and one of them is always trying to prevent the other from doing anything the public would like!
A funny system, indeed!
Unfortunately, there are too many Westerners who arrogantly claimed that they have the best system in the world and proceed to denigrate China and other communist/socialist countries with very little understanding of the actual situation.
"One party democracy". I think that says it all.
@@Andy-P You think two-party democracy is any better?
@@adamiskandar5107 yes!
China is still a one party autocracy... there is only one party, and people don't have the chance option to vote in the government.
One party democracy would be like Singapore and to some extent Japan... It's when One party dominated the politics so much that even though they have other parties participating in the government, people just vote for them simply because there is a complete lack of strong enough opposition.
Why do you filter your video on China?
At @12:57 why is this road having a lane that mends inwards splitting into two lanes and then immediately back to one?
Don't have to think The dteagon is much stronger, posperous, friedly & much better country to be in. Period.
" Man Made " and therefore " overvalued."
Hi from Singapore, the booming financial capital of booming Asia. According to the SMA, Singapore Monetary Authority, which thoroughly checked into it, China has 192K metric tons of gold, real physical gold, not the non-existent paper gold of the US. 200K soon as China mines the most gold for decades. With physical gold > $2100 and rising to 2500 or $3K soon, it's worth almost $20-trillion. RICH!
Yes trust fat man Adani, he won’t lie to you… whoops 😂
Indian here . We don't think China is over rating their GDP . Instead if hating Westerners, Chinese are hating Indians for nothing.
I always appreciate all your informative clips. Meanwhile, the Chinese name 'Li Keqiang' is prononciated like 'Li-Kuh-Chang' rather than 'Li-Ki-Kiang' unless you intentionally avoided the local sound. Indeed, this doesn't make sense regarding what it spells, but would help non-native English speakers easily understand it.
RIP Li Keqiang. 😢😢
Why you sad for him? he is still ccp and committed numerous and horrific crimes against the chynese people to get to where he was.
I wonder if we can assume that, with the regional inequality as basis to generate more accurate figures, like since richer regions are like that of Western countries, then assume so, same for the poorer regions, adjusted with other stats to find the most similar countries to match and of course must take into account of the trade and economy of in between regions but I personally would put that as less influencal since most Wealth are created and concentrated in the richer regions anyways
There is an ancient Chinese saying that wealth should not be exposed. This is a habit rooted in culture. So this is why China is lowering its exchange rate and GDP.
There is an ancient Chinese saying that wealth should not be exposed. This is a habit rooted in culture. So this is why China is lowering its exchange rate and GDP.
You guys need to change up your music. The disorienting string track you play any time you introduce a topic on an asian nation is not only vaguely racist, it's abrasive to the ears.
CHINA IS THE BEST FOR EVERY THINGS.
The interior isn't so developed as this intro suggests. It's funny because they were the ones who won the civil war for Mao and flooded the Republic's defenses.
I would rather die being an honest farmer or as a well-loved fisherman than to be labeled as a thief, murderer... the westerners should get the idea.
The question is if the societal mindset has evolved along with the wealth.
The same kind of technological jump had happened with Japan during the Meiji Restoration ... but nothing good came along with it.
From Wiki on this Topic: "Emperor Meiji announced in his 1868 Charter Oath that "Knowledge shall be sought all over the world, and thereby the foundations of imperial rule shall be strengthened."" The results can be read about in the history books.
What do I need to Google to read more about the aftermath?
Bad foreign policy aside, the standard of living for the average japanese did increase dramatically.
That's because there are clear signs that Imperial Capitalism is fast declining resulting in unstable societies.
'societal mindset has evolved'?! Bruh get down from the exalted pedestal you've placed yourself on. You aren't 'more evolved' than anyone, Mr. White Man's Burden / Manifest Destiny.
At least you butchered LE KE QIANG's name's pronunciation. cool
If China is 60 per cent poorer and they have at least one trillion of US bonds, then US is how much poorer ?
Why keep butchering Li Keqiang's name?....so many resources to see how this is pronounced...VisualEconomik getting lazy :-(
Having a negative faith towards China will not help you to be objective either.
Nice Footage of I think ST Petersburg.
So what if it’s richer? The wealth league is also a prison (or sudden death) league. People just can’t enjoy their wealth if they have no freedom 😢
So wealthy people not only want wealth but also wanted to be felt the difference between wealthy and poor??
Every year, over 120 million of Chinese travelling all over the world BUT, VERY FUNNY, THESE SAME OVER 120 MILLION CHINESE RETURN BACK TO CHINA. IF CHINA IS A PRISON AS YOU, WESTERN AND INDIAN NEWS MEDIAS ALLEGED, WILL THEY GO BACK TO PRISON CHINA AS PRISONERS???
Seems like u still have problem😂😂no matter the outcome u bots will always problem.😂😂typical CIA bots.
No, China is just a developing country.
THE ONLY THING YOU GOT ON YOUR MIND IS JUST "CHINA" 😂
this spirit comes from FEAR, SORROW, GRIEF, JEALOUSY... and so on...
Didn’t expect to hear Thailand as an example for autocratic
A good one bed room app rent in Beijing or Shenzhen may be about $750 month or $9,000 year. So it means for each unit rented, it adds to $9,000 to China GDP.
Same quality appartment in New York or San Francisco may cost as much as $5,000 month or $60,000. So this add $60,000 to US GDP. Rent of $60,000 although in a neighborhood of homeless, drug addicts, shop lifters, bullies...
Does it really matters what figure it is? If you really want to know just travel to China and feel it.
The cost of living is much lower than the west.
Therefore Chinese people are poor if they go to the west but rich if they spend money in China.
As a presenter, it's literally your job to try and read the prepared script accurately. The hard part was already done by your writers.
A simple google search would have taught you how to properly pronounce 'Li Keqiang', instead of butchering it like how you did. Goes to show how little effort was put in
China always says it is a developing country, so why waste so much time to debate anything?
Is China's GDP manipulated?
Well its own leaders admit it, so yeah.
Is the actual number higher or lower? I suspect its lower, but I have no clue how much lower.
You never answered anything once and for all, so why should this be any different?
If you're looking for simple yes/no answers, economics may not be the field for you.
@@hieronymusbutts7349 Looking for accurate data in China is a fools gambit
Based on a valid source (statistics in one of the provinces), the data is being manipulated up at this point in time.
manipulated to be higher or lower?
@@kimeli higher. This is as of the last 3 years. Can't relate to earlier times.
that's not a secret, and the central will adjust it down later
Mudding the water much? Nonetheless Dollar inflow will not stop going down unless China (prc) reforms and open up, the yellow river shouldn't flow backwards.
So, why did the US House of Representatives unanimously decide to consider China as a developed country?