@@rubygreen1249That's with LEDs that use PWM. Afaik it's not just cheap lights but I don't think it would affect long exposure. If the exposure is long enough to fully capture the full on/off duty cycle of the light it shouldn't be an issue. The banding comes when the light is on for part of the frame as the shutter rolls down and off for part. With a long exposure the entire frame should see the mix of on and off and you wouldn't get banding.
Yeah, but electronic shutter can shoot at a higher frame rate, so if your trying to shoot something like sports and need as many shots as possible to catch the right moment, electronic shutter may be the best option. Electronic may also be great for wildlife that you don't want to spook or alert with the sound of a mechanical shutter. The main downside though, at least in my experience, is electronic shutter has less dynamic range and look a little bit more noisy in my opinion. That's why i still use mechanical for most photos I take.
Mabey you could also mention, that with some displays (for example on events or shows) you also get flickering on the screen with electronic shutter. Thats my usecase to switch modes
I love electronic shutter for street photos bc its silent. Only issue I had is in some lowlight photos when I bump up the shadows stripes appear which is really unpleasant. For travelling the electronic shutter was perfect, saved the battery for long also. But last week I shot a downhill mountainbike event and then the mechanical shutter did a very good job.
From how I understand it, using a mechanical shutter helps control the amount of light coming in. This is the main difference because using an electronic shutter means there's no way to control the light being exposed, and light from the "future" (after you press the shutter button) will still constantly hitting the sensor, faster than the sensor read out rate. So by the time the sensor reads the rest of the sensor, light from the future is already hitting and overwriting the sensor, hence the rolling shutter effect. Meanwhile, on a mechanical shutter, you can control the amount of light going into the sensor. The sensor is still going to read line by line, but the "future" light is not overwriting the captured "current" (the moment shutter open and closes) hence no rolling shutter effect.
Because mechanical shutter (12fps) is slower than electronic shutter (20fps). Since the readout speed is the same in either setting, in mechanical shutter, the processor has more time to “record” the image vs when it’s in electronic shutter. It also has a correlation to your exposure setting. So if you’re shooting fast action, more than likely, you’ll have a very short exposure which also will mean that the processor is only being given a very short amount of time to record the whole image. Since it reads the image from top to bottom, the fastest of objects being captured will tend to have a “bow” to their shape. So basically, you’re giving the processor more information in a shorter amount of time than it can handle.
Ah man I was shooting a band inside with electronic shutter all the photos were ruined because I didn’t know I needed to shoot mechanical with led lights 😢
Yeah, it’s same with fluorescent light I think. I remember when I first got the Sony A7m3 and got banding all over my pictures and was wondering what was going on
The thing is it’s different for most cameras. For example the canon r3 and Nikon d9 are electronic only. But the sensor read out is so fast that it doesn’t make a difference.
@@sn4rl277 I understand that it’s a hybrid, but what are the pros and cons of using one over the other? I only have electronic first curtain on my r50, so I curious
@@justinburley8659 First off it negates the inherent issues of Electronic shutter like using high sync flash, and shooting at higher aperture on a lens like f8 and up. It's the best of the do it all of Mechanical shutter, with the speed perks, mixed in with a little of the quietness of Electronic shutter. I know my Fuji has like 6 shutter settings with these three mixed in for all types of shooting situations. Hope this helps some.
sorry noob question. aside from the noise difference, if you shoot either with shutter or not, the sensor still reads line by line, so what is exactly the difference?
Other than a silent shutter, what is the difference between 1st curtain and electronic? Is it the fps? Why is banding and rolling shutter more evident in full electronic vs 1st curtain? I shoot everything in 1st curtain and don’t seem to notice any issues.
If the sensor reads line by line, what does the shutter even matter other than to cover the sensor when not being used? I have the r8 but use electronic shutter pretty much all the time. I guess I don’t see how the shutter helps in really fast motion if the sensor reads line by line whether or not the shutter is there… what am I missing?
The first thing that came to my mind was lighting & rolling shutter. Elec. shutter can cause weird artifacts with certain lights, especially flickering light sources. If you shoot outside - you’re probably fine, but if you shoot on a some kind of an indoor court… you can see where this is going. I’ve seen sports photographers complain about some gyms having older flickering ceiling lights. And the other thing is rolling shutter which is usually a little bit more pronounced when using electronic shutter. However, not all sensors are made equal, so some cameras will handle this better. For flickering lights - if I remember correctly, there’s usually an option that compensates for that when using elec. shutter, but I’m not sure. If it does, there’s definitely a compromise that comes with it. Anyways, feel free to correct me if you think anything I’ve said is wrong.
Mechanical shutter needs around 4ms to start/stop exposure, this is the time when curtain moves from the top to the bottom of the sensor. Even mechanical shutter can distort an image of fast moving object. The electronic shutter needs usually much more time like 25 or even 100ms for some high resolution sensors. The exception are stacked sensors that are as fast as mechanical shutters (or faster). Please do not confuse exposure time (shutter time) with shutter speed. Two different things.
With electronic shutter you get distorted images of moving objects as ever line I captured at a different time. Looks especially horrible for a golf club.
@@rogergranquist yes. But once the mechanical shutter is closed and the light is not reaching the sensor, the readout speed is not impacting the distortion, because all photons are already collected. Sensor readout speed impacts the distortion when electronic shutter is used. Mechanical curtain speed impacts distortion when mechanical shutter is used. The only way to have always undistorted image is to use global shutter. Of course in 99% of the photographs it doesn’t matter ;-) but at the same time there are situations where it matters.
Or you have something like a Z8/Z9 which doesn´t have a mechanical at all but a double stacked sensor which is so fast, that you don´t have the problem with fast moving objects. Just saying as a Z8 shooter XD
Peak Design anchors. It's for attaching the camera strap. If you don't know them, check them out, you can find third party straps that also use the peak design anchors
Four years ago I would have never thought I would have a Mirrorless. But now I have one and man it is nice. Sometimes I need to be quiet in an event and the Electronic shutter is very nice. Also I can spray and pray in situations where I don't know if I will get the shot. I still have DSLR's I use, but plan to slowly move to Mirrorless as the prices drop over time.
@@sn4rl277i bought mirrorless camera because it's really cheap (M43 camera) i originally want to buy a dslr but they are too expensive even the older dslr like canon 400d
@@barneylaurance1865 You can buy black ones now. But yes I found out about them after watching reviews on camera gear. I love the Slide strap, and plan to get a Capture clip sometime this year. I have had my Slide strap for 5 years now, and it has been all over the place. But still looks new, and the anchors are in good shape as well. Even after it being the main strap for my D4 + 70-200mm 2.8 combo.
If your camera has a between the lens shutter, you can shoot electronic flash at any speed - I can shoot at 1/4,000th second with flash so effectively, the shutter speed is dial in as much ambient light as you need.
Hi, can you elaborate a bit more on why electronic shuuter would mess up the long exposure photos compared to to mechanical.
In rooms with cheap lights you can get some black bars across your image from my experience atleast
@@rubygreen1249 Its called Banding or that's what most photographers are coining it as.
@@rubygreen1249That's with LEDs that use PWM. Afaik it's not just cheap lights but I don't think it would affect long exposure. If the exposure is long enough to fully capture the full on/off duty cycle of the light it shouldn't be an issue. The banding comes when the light is on for part of the frame as the shutter rolls down and off for part. With a long exposure the entire frame should see the mix of on and off and you wouldn't get banding.
Electronic shutter, in fact, can even be good for long exposure as there is absolutely ZERO camera vibration when taking the photo so no risk of blur
How do both differ at shutters speeds of multiple seconds? In both scenarios the shutter is open the whole time right?
Yeah, but electronic shutter can shoot at a higher frame rate, so if your trying to shoot something like sports and need as many shots as possible to catch the right moment, electronic shutter may be the best option. Electronic may also be great for wildlife that you don't want to spook or alert with the sound of a mechanical shutter. The main downside though, at least in my experience, is electronic shutter has less dynamic range and look a little bit more noisy in my opinion. That's why i still use mechanical for most photos I take.
Mabey you could also mention, that with some displays (for example on events or shows) you also get flickering on the screen with electronic shutter.
Thats my usecase to switch modes
I love electronic shutter for street photos bc its silent.
Only issue I had is in some lowlight photos when I bump up the shadows stripes appear which is really unpleasant.
For travelling the electronic shutter was perfect, saved the battery for long also. But last week I shot a downhill mountainbike event and then the mechanical shutter did a very good job.
or you wanna use flash (main reason for me to switch to mechanical)
Thank you Anthony!
All of this photography knowledge yet nobody has ever told me how sensor readout works when shooting with the mechanical shutter.
THIS. I have the same freaking question. Like, the sensor is the same, so why 1st curtain or full mechaninc don't have the same issue?
From how I understand it, using a mechanical shutter helps control the amount of light coming in. This is the main difference because using an electronic shutter means there's no way to control the light being exposed, and light from the "future" (after you press the shutter button) will still constantly hitting the sensor, faster than the sensor read out rate. So by the time the sensor reads the rest of the sensor, light from the future is already hitting and overwriting the sensor, hence the rolling shutter effect.
Meanwhile, on a mechanical shutter, you can control the amount of light going into the sensor. The sensor is still going to read line by line, but the "future" light is not overwriting the captured "current" (the moment shutter open and closes) hence no rolling shutter effect.
Because mechanical shutter (12fps) is slower than electronic shutter (20fps). Since the readout speed is the same in either setting, in mechanical shutter, the processor has more time to “record” the image vs when it’s in electronic shutter. It also has a correlation to your exposure setting. So if you’re shooting fast action, more than likely, you’ll have a very short exposure which also will mean that the processor is only being given a very short amount of time to record the whole image. Since it reads the image from top to bottom, the fastest of objects being captured will tend to have a “bow” to their shape. So basically, you’re giving the processor more information in a shorter amount of time than it can handle.
@@3-piece129 okay, and how does the mechanical shutter help with that?
Ah man I was shooting a band inside with electronic shutter all the photos were ruined because I didn’t know I needed to shoot mechanical with led lights 😢
Yeah, it’s same with fluorescent light I think. I remember when I first got the Sony A7m3 and got banding all over my pictures and was wondering what was going on
That's pulse width modulation for you!
The thing is it’s different for most cameras. For example the canon r3 and Nikon d9 are electronic only. But the sensor read out is so fast that it doesn’t make a difference.
What about the 1st curtain
What you mean is "Electronic 1st curtain". It's a Hybrid between the Mechanical shutter and Electronic shutter.
@@sn4rl277 I understand that it’s a hybrid, but what are the pros and cons of using one over the other? I only have electronic first curtain on my r50, so I curious
@@justinburley8659 First off it negates the inherent issues of Electronic shutter like using high sync flash, and shooting at higher aperture on a lens like f8 and up. It's the best of the do it all of Mechanical shutter, with the speed perks, mixed in with a little of the quietness of Electronic shutter. I know my Fuji has like 6 shutter settings with these three mixed in for all types of shooting situations. Hope this helps some.
It can chop up your bokeh balls a bit by introducing paralax between the electronic 1st curtain and the mechanical 2nd curtain.
@@barneylaurance1865 This is only valid with shutter speeds faster than about 1/1000s AND apertures faster than about f/2.
sorry noob question. aside from the noise difference, if you shoot either with shutter or not, the sensor still reads line by line, so what is exactly the difference?
Other than a silent shutter, what is the difference between 1st curtain and electronic? Is it the fps? Why is banding and rolling shutter more evident in full electronic vs 1st curtain? I shoot everything in 1st curtain and don’t seem to notice any issues.
Slient shutter mode doesnt close shutter curtain when your Canon is turned off so I just tape the speaker.
Are Electronic 1st curtain good for Aviation photography? (Canon R5). Thanks.
If the sensor reads line by line, what does the shutter even matter other than to cover the sensor when not being used? I have the r8 but use electronic shutter pretty much all the time. I guess I don’t see how the shutter helps in really fast motion if the sensor reads line by line whether or not the shutter is there… what am I missing?
The first thing that came to my mind was lighting & rolling shutter. Elec. shutter can cause weird artifacts with certain lights, especially flickering light sources. If you shoot outside - you’re probably fine, but if you shoot on a some kind of an indoor court… you can see where this is going. I’ve seen sports photographers complain about some gyms having older flickering ceiling lights. And the other thing is rolling shutter which is usually a little bit more pronounced when using electronic shutter. However, not all sensors are made equal, so some cameras will handle this better.
For flickering lights - if I remember correctly, there’s usually an option that compensates for that when using elec. shutter, but I’m not sure. If it does, there’s definitely a compromise that comes with it.
Anyways, feel free to correct me if you think anything I’ve said is wrong.
Mechanical shutter needs around 4ms to start/stop exposure, this is the time when curtain moves from the top to the bottom of the sensor. Even mechanical shutter can distort an image of fast moving object.
The electronic shutter needs usually much more time like 25 or even 100ms for some high resolution sensors.
The exception are stacked sensors that are as fast as mechanical shutters (or faster).
Please do not confuse exposure time (shutter time) with shutter speed. Two different things.
With electronic shutter you get distorted images of moving objects as ever line I captured at a different time. Looks especially horrible for a golf club.
@@pawelmod3292 I do understand the effect, but doesn’t the sensor read the same line by line regardless of whether the shutter opens and closes?
@@rogergranquist yes. But once the mechanical shutter is closed and the light is not reaching the sensor, the readout speed is not impacting the distortion, because all photons are already collected.
Sensor readout speed impacts the distortion when electronic shutter is used.
Mechanical curtain speed impacts distortion when mechanical shutter is used.
The only way to have always undistorted image is to use global shutter.
Of course in 99% of the photographs it doesn’t matter ;-) but at the same time there are situations where it matters.
But it mechanical shutter does it count the shutter count when does it but can shooting infinity photos by using mechanical shutter.
Or you have something like a Z8/Z9 which doesn´t have a mechanical at all but a double stacked sensor which is so fast, that you don´t have the problem with fast moving objects. Just saying as a Z8 shooter XD
nice
My dream R6 huhu 😢
Or you can skip mechanical shutter if you have fast sensors like a91, a92, a1, r3, z9, z8; or if you have global shutter like a93 :->
This has not been a problem for Sony in yeeaars.
You said a lot of words but didn’t explain the practical difference.
What are the 2 red dots on hanging on his Kamera
Peak Design anchors. It's for attaching the camera strap. If you don't know them, check them out, you can find third party straps that also use the peak design anchors
Is this applies for mirrorless as well ?
It is a mirrorless camera he shows it on.
Sony A9 mark 3 started laughing
I really love mechanical shutter's sound, that's why I never use electric shutter
Four years ago I would have never thought I would have a Mirrorless. But now I have one and man it is nice. Sometimes I need to be quiet in an event and the Electronic shutter is very nice. Also I can spray and pray in situations where I don't know if I will get the shot. I still have DSLR's I use, but plan to slowly move to Mirrorless as the prices drop over time.
@@sn4rl277 me too brother
@@sn4rl277i bought mirrorless camera because it's really cheap (M43 camera) i originally want to buy a dslr but they are too expensive even the older dslr like canon 400d
But nikon z9 has no machanical shutter system
whats with the little red dongles on the camera?
Peak Design "Anchors" for there camera straps, super handy and fast release from your camera strap.
@@sn4rl277I think they make them bright red on purpose so they advertise themselves to other photographers.
@@barneylaurance1865 You can buy black ones now. But yes I found out about them after watching reviews on camera gear. I love the Slide strap, and plan to get a Capture clip sometime this year. I have had my Slide strap for 5 years now, and it has been all over the place. But still looks new, and the anchors are in good shape as well. Even after it being the main strap for my D4 + 70-200mm 2.8 combo.
i have a dslr
Why? No one on any channel can explain why a mechanical shutter makes taking a photograph of fast moving subjects better than electronic.
Captain Dissilution has a good video about shutter andbrolling shutter.
@@binarix128
Glad I see this comment.
If your camera has a between the lens shutter, you can shoot electronic flash at any speed - I can shoot at 1/4,000th second with flash so effectively, the shutter speed is dial in as much ambient light as you need.
Not applicable when shoot indoor.. for indoor mechanical shutter is the best one
I have a question do phones uses mechanical shutter or electronic
Electronic - you don't see a mechanical thing moving in the lens, right?