Wargroove 2 Release Tier List - Early Commander Balance Theories
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- čas přidán 10. 10. 2023
- How good is each commander in wargroove 2? Which are weak and which are strong? Could Rhomb beat Lytra? Is Valder OP? What happened to Nuru? Lets find out!
#wargroove2 #fireemblem #advancewars - Hry
I’m sad about Mercival, with the additions in Wargroove2, I hoped some discount on the next water unit when you fish by 5-10% when you end your turn as fishing.
Rhomb did less damage when he did his tier 2 because the stronghold damaged him when he did his tier 1
I like how Valder's charge is a bit slower now, but since army interactions build groove now it's still gonna snowball itself out of control
I'm a huge fan of all three Double Trouble COs and I'm so happy with what they did with them. The twins were my favourites and it sucked that they sucked, but the rework feels good now, and I like how it hints at their apprenticeship with Emeric. Vesper will be so good to play once she's fixed and I like that she finally gets to use the shadow sisters.
Tenri, especially the lvl 2 is just ??? while I think the trebuchet interaction is kinda cool, I wouldn't mind they removed it and give her a much faster groove as compensation, it would make her a really interesting CO that plays for army positioning, would get a lot more value out of the lvl 2 displacement as well.
I like the direction they took with Ryota, I get that it lowers the skill gap but it feels more streamlined and balanceable and it's also just fun to zoom around freely. I don't have a lot of experience in PvP but if I had to debate one of your rankings I think Ryota is a bit of a sleeper, just because of how frequently and how far he can reposition to change fronts, aggress, retreat, anything really
I feel like Elody is stronger than Rhombe if well played. Power 1 is creating more lethal opportunities, you damage two units instead of one and you can move it to create weaknesses in defense.
Solid point. You might be right. I think this is an issue with rhomb though.
Not sure which is sadder, that Mercival is in the wrong tier (everyone knows he's Pistil tier) or that Nuru got nerfed so hard she got put below Mercival
Mercias second tier grove has a bonus of 10% heal to ALL allies in addition to the 75% heal in a massive area. This means the allies in the area heal for 85% and ALL other allies heal for 10%.
Also Nuru tier two groove has a bonus 25% discount on all allied production facilities for turn. Now her groove is not that great, but in the late game it is quite significant.
Edit:
There was a patch that just dropped. There might have been some balance changes in that.
you dont get to the lategame w/ nuru she is so weak and so slow that you lose way before that to a competent player on any other commander, and even if you aren't completely lost, you still can't comeback with just the 25% discount, nuru is the clear worst co
Tenri can move a kraken to grab your commander now. Basically a 2 turn win.
Oooooooo that is cool to keep in mind.
Tenri can also grab and move a tentacle (which looks hilarious btw) and crash the game when you attack it :P
damn soothing voice i been playing punch club 2 just having u in the background hope you play more games n post them on yt
Could you show of some new skrimish and camparin editor changes next?
I feel like Nuru could have been nerfed by having the summons not get to move that turn. Old Nuru was a bit much having 10 range to Knight crit a stronghold or whatever. It also used to cost double gold, which meant that if you weren't in a place to win the game outright, paying double for a suicide mission felt bad. It had to be a clutch play, and bolstering your line at double cost was not going to be worth it.
I don't really like her as "slow pikes Valdur". I think Tier 1 should have summoning sickness, all barracks units available, base cost. Tier 2 could just remove summoning sickness maybe.
I haven't played a ton of Nadia, but it should be balanceable since it's straight damage. RNG mitigation is sometimes possible if you can prune away the units you don't want to groove and then be left with exactly what you do want to hit in range. This also means that spamming decoys is a randomized defense. I should maybe practice it for fun sometime, idk. I like Twins because it does swiss army knife stuff, so I don't get tempted to play Mercia or Nadia or Dark Mercia as much.
If Nadia is bad, they could raise the numbers, and at a certain point there should be a sweet spot for fair play and counterplay. It's not like Lytra where the only reasonable options would be groove cost and total rework.
I’m sad for ragna, least they didn’t massacre my edgier Mercia
in fairness, only dingbats play against pistil while huddled up, when you face her you are well advised to invest in units that don't need partners to crit.
doesn't Mercia's tier 2 groove have the effect "heal close units for 7 and ALL of yours for 1" or has that been removed? i remember thinking "well she's just straight up half a Hawke now."
Elodie stealing a unit for 1 turn can be decent, especially if it's a giant, get the two big guys into a slap fight and the only one who loses is your enemy. certainly worth waiting for tier 2 to play for keeps, but in a pinch it can be helpful.
ah now i remember, Dark Mercia is the other half of Hawke right there.
Koji's tier 2 bombs can get ludicrous though, they can blast a battleship onto a mountain tile... speaking from experience.
It has arrived
Just like in Wargroove 1 I will play Sigrid at every opportunity. Because Ancient Blood is a bop.
You misunderstand valder, his t1 is actually balanced, 75/sword is fine, 50/sword might be a bit too good so I see why they didn't do it, but 225 for 2 swords plus killing all your opponents army is stronger than pistil, pistil is local and needs to touch sth herself, so even though the effects are similar valder is global and has less counterplay
Now I think I see why you think of him that way, you said that you trade swords in the lategame, but... is that a rule? can you force the valder player to do it? cuz if you can keep most of your swords till 225 groove, you win the game when you press t2, all their infantry units just disappear + it can kill hq easily if valder can position for double crit
His t1 instead just slows down your t2 winning attack and as such is never worth pressing unless they let you get some huge advantage from it, like yoinking a vill and holding it forever or critting an archer to death for free, but against a good player you shouldn't get those so playing valder's groove makes you go from 225 t2(pistil speed) to 300(caesar speed) and caesar has a stronger effect. As for going vs other cos well valder is so good that even if you play him wrong he should win.
Which brings me to caesar who might also be as strong or stronger than pistil, bcz if he can survive her for a bit by stalling the map then his effect is stronger, so a caesar vs pistil mu is caesar building defensive formations and trying to deny pistil charge and attacks while pistil tries to get sth major done before unit count balloons to the point where caesar can easily sharge his groove and wipe her army with 0 counterplay.
Also I think you are heavily overestimating koji, sure he has fine lethals, but not much else since birbs now get ohkoed by everything, so I don't understand putting him in the same tier as wulfar who does lethals better, faster and with greater range and versatility.
Emeric can be as strong as you think he is but it's very map dependant, when he doesn't get his dream map he is low tier, basically he needs to break the game with the +2 range or he is just a nerfed version of wg1 emeric, who wasn't that good anyway.
Lytra and sedge you might be underrating a tiny bit, I place them just below wulfar, but on the same tier, that said both are map dependant, so your placement is also very fair.
I agree w/ p much everything else, oh you're also slightly overrating dm and mercia maybe, anyway nice list
Emeric's level 2 groove +2 ranged range is seemingly broken, doesn't work whenever I try it 😔 which is a shame because he's my fav
It seems to only work on the first turn (intentionally I've been told) and only on units that would be in the crystal range the MOMENT it appears.
I think Rhomb dealt less damage because he got hit by the tower earlier, whilst using crystal heart |
Also, justice for my girl Sigrid 🗣
Vesper can make units permanently invisible for some reason
Bug we just…wait for it to not be borked
@@nameplease8811 I know its a bug I was just saying
Elodie got screwed. Super grooves were supposed to be better versions of their original groove. They made Elodie's second groove what used to be her groove. It's not only a nerf, but it's just boring too. She doesn't do anything new or interesting it just takes longer to do what she could do before.
maybe give endgame of devil a try?
Qick Play and small Maps really make Wulfar broken rn they should nerf him a bit (higher groove charge).
Maybe slightly higher tier 2. I'd prefer they BUFF the other commanders though rather than NERF wulfar personally. I'm also not 100% sure. I played a bit of wulfar in the showmatch, which might be part of why people think wulfar is so good now XD
@@SneakyDragon i played allmost all matches that i have done so far vs or with Koji (op too if he can get groove) Valder op af on small maps and Wulfar. On small maps Wulfar has so often his first groove up that he can even without killing units or decapping villages groove allmost all the time (die played vs a wulfar player in QP and he had 3 grooves up until turn 15 thats ridiculous tho to be fair i was rushing him tho i lost iirc 2-3 untis to him and some villages) but still i think thats to much atm. Maybe a slide nerf to balance him at least a bit. Valder imo is fine yes his groove is strong if you can get groove 2 but not gamebreaking since it comes "later" into the match. Kojies groove 1 Bombs are fine too with the current groove charge of him (idk about groove 2 tho bcs i never used it so far) and the bombs arent as tanky on groove 1 which is fair imo for the groove charge. But hey thats only my experiences so far and im not an hardcore pvpler xD (anymore) and i dident played ranged tho what do i know :D.
@@Chr1s_1986 Thanks for the feedback!
Brah! Valder is broken. If he has tier 2 groove, he can 1 turn kill a stronghold without any units present. He can do what I call an empowered double crit. He also has the option of 1 turn killing a full hp commander if 2 swords are near him when he has tier 2 groove.
Those are definitely strong options, I totally agree. The thing is at the highest level of play, your opponent won't let you near the stronghold, and 1 turn killing the commander is something everyone knows how to do with or without valder, ever since I started that trend a few years ago in wg1 ;) I'll start to post more and more PvP stuff as I finish up all these guide videos I want to do. I am sort of known as the 'commander killer' in the community so maybe I'm a bad example, but the world champion for example will often prevent these strategies through good positioning, and valder becomes a bit weaker.
In fact both Sayoya (World Champion) and Mastro (previous world #2) have started to rate valder a bit lower lately after playing some more games (and watching this video).
Valder is good for sure, don't get me wrong, and everything you said is true and VERY powerful options. But, I don't think valder is quite broken. Who knows though, I could be wrong :)
Can anyone explain why rhomb is a "they"? And not he?
Well there is a legitimate reason, it's a bit of a spoiler though if you haven't unlocked all the Codex though:
***SPOILERS***
Rhomb is an experiment. His crystal ability is the result of Pistil (allegedly) experimenting on him to unlock power that would make him a super being. So in a sense he's more a weapon than a living being, though he's not aware of that. It's kind of tragic though. What seemed to be a case of using gender neutral pronouns due to the progressive culture is actually cleverly used to refer to the fact that he isn't really a living creature anymore. The fact that he accepts that may reflect him accepting the cynical reality, but that's partially why he really despises Pistil in the beginning and keeps his past a secret from Lytra to avoid traumatizing her. As for why Pistil is so evil, it may have to do with her father, the leader of their people being a terrible tyrant who used his position and corruption to experiment on making super soldiers. Her brother took the throne and tried to calm people down, but she seems to have been trained into mastering control over the crystals to carry that legacy. She seems to be more heavily misguided than malicious though as Tenri's betrayal did surprise her and she seemed reluctant to let the Weapon control her.
@@MarioMastar i greatly appetite the in depth answer and going the extra mile,i knew the dev team is "progressive" much to my disappointment but it still mad no sense as he is clearly male and no transformation was revealed but ya he does have like other souls in him but he does seem to be free of there influence.