Revolutionize Your Panel: Schneider Electric's Smart Relay Integration!
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- 🌟 Welcome to another electrifying episode of Electrician U! Today, we're diving into the world of smart electrical solutions with Schneider Electric. 🔌⚡
00:00 - Intro
00:11 - Reasons to have Relays
01:29 - Schneider Electric Relays
02:05 - Installation
03:19 - Sense App
04:55 - Demonstration
In this episode, join Dustin as he explores the innovative relays designed for QO™ load centers, a staple in both residential and commercial electrical setups. No more hefty expenses for panel upgrades! These savvy relays fit snugly into existing systems and link up with the Wiser Energy Monitor for streamlined efficiency. Watch as we skillfully wire these relays, set up the Sense app (transitioning to the Schneider Home app in 2024), and demonstrate the convenience of managing your electrical setup right from your smartphone. A huge thanks to Schneider Electric for sponsoring this insightful episode and helping us light up the world of electrical innovation! 📱💡
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It looks like the relay occupies it's own slot in addition to a slot for the breaker, yes? Panels are going to fill up fast!
I agree- that doesn't seem to make sense.
Yes, why would the relay need to occupy a space at all? The relays could be outside the panel with one breaker powering the relay and the relays turning things on and off like an automatic transfer switch. Like running either the water heater, or dryer or car charging port. It should allow you to program, dryer priority over water heater during the day(8 am -10 pm), and at night(10 pm to 8 am) car charger over water heater until about 5 am when you would want to top op water temp water for morning shower. And allow the other device when the primary is not calling for a large load. @@davidshertzer900
@@davidshertzer900 pun intended?
I wonder if it will become the norm to basically have a dummy panel adjacent that houses these relays?
If the customer has a choice, I would bet on Span panels becoming a leader technology in the market and the other will have to follow.@@joshuajones8455
Side note: I put the main box wifi antenna outside of the panel by opening a knock out at the bottom. The metal cabinet when closed reduces signal strength. 👍
just stick the antenna out the bottom/side/top with an nm bushing or similar and gently clamp it sticking out as far as possible, that should suffice even the stickiest of local codes and inspectors.
the internal antenna elements are generally only in the upper half or so of the whole antenna envelope, so it should work about equal to the whole device being outside.
Outside the US, DIN rail breaker boxes are the norm. Relays, timers, and more are super easy to add.
Yeah those are fun
I wonder what's more cost effective in the end, the US style panel or the DIN rail... panel: cheap in the US, expensive with rails (triple price over here), breakers: opposite. Plus the installation time where I don't see either system faster.
@@sfink69 how're rails expensive? Panels gotta be more expensive
@@AgentOffice well, I'm from Germany and local code demands BIG DIN panels which cost from 500-1500$, depending on the size you need. The rest is cheaper then as we use serial GFCIs just like the first plug on a circiut to protect the rest, 1 GFCI for max 6 circuits, plus surge protector plus master switch for every phase (we use 3phase 220V systems). Grounding is similar. Wages are similar I would guess (around 60-90$ per hour per qualified person ).
@@sfink69 wow I was thinking the tiny Chinese rails
It's a nice first step. It needs integrated breakers so you don't take up so much panel space, and to simplify the wiring. (the jumpers are stupid) And it needs manual overrides.
this !
My first thoughts also...why isn't it the breaker too?
@@jopo6388 These weren't developed by Schneider. My guess is that regulatory approval for breakers is much much more onerous than it is for these kinds of devices.
Circuit breakers are last line of defense protection. These are add on accessories that could fail closed or open and you would still be safe. If they're integrated with the breakers they would have to be much more reliable.
That said, Leviton's smart breakers are integrated units. I'm not sure whether they have a circuit breaker AND a relay or if they just remotely actuate the breaker mechanism itself (my guess is the latter).
@@tmoney1876 If it won't pass the requirements for breakers then I would not want it in my breaker box.
@@baggins181 Why would they need to pass the requirements for circuit breakers? They're not circuit breakers and they don't serve as circuit breakers in the system. They're relays. They can fail open or closed or not be there at all and the system will be exactly as safe.
Do you also require the conductors themselves to serve as overcurrent protection devices? How about the panel board? Do you demand that the panel board itself be capable of breaking the circuit in an overcurrent situation? Of course not... because they're not circuit breakers. The circuit breakers are the circuit breakers. They serve a particular purpose that has particular testing requirements. Requiring other parts of the system that serve completely different purposes to pass circuit breaker specific tests makes absolutely zero sense.
Hi from Germany, an alternative could also be a SHELLY 3EM or PRO 3 EM. If you don't have a DIN rail available you can just drop it like the wizer box into the panel, wiring is relatively similar (With clamps/donuts and a breaker connection). The 3EM has an integrated relay while the PRO 3 EM has an add-on to switch circuits or appliances on/off. In addition, you can turn on/off individual plugs/receptacles with shelly relais and smart plugs. Another nice feature: you CAN but DON'T HAVE to use the free Shelly cloud as every Shelly device has an own WiFi AP you can connect directly to with your mobile or laptop.
I love ❤️ this new technology and keep up your good work 👏
The reason they don't have a manual lever on them is because they are just a relay. They are fed from a breaker, so if you need to make safe a circuit, you do it just like you always have.
Or, you can have only part of a circuit going through the relay. You can use like a 12-2-2 and then split your load where the homerun terminates.
This is pretty slick.
it doesn't have a physical lever? a bit unnerving to think you are working on a branch circuit that's only turned off by software...
been waiting to get a SPAN panel but they are not available in canada and always seem to support way too few circuits... this might be perfect if it's available in canada...
do they come with AFCI or GFCI variants?
edit: missed the part from the video where they are inline with another breaker, that solves most of the problems :P my bad
They connect in series with a conventional breaker. If you need to work on a branch, you would turn off the breaker. If something tripped the breaker, these wouldn't be able to reset it (which you wouldn't want anyway.) I'm guessing that the conventional breaker could also handle any AFCI/GFCI requirements.
These are sold as a partnership with Savant Power. They also have CH style versions, so I would expect Schneider will be selling those as well.
@@tmoney1876 oh i see... i totally missed that part from the video... that's cool then, shame it takes up more room though
Turn off the breaker. No different than a RIB without a physical switch.
Why does it have to be inline, the relay should be built into the breaker. I don’t want double the space taken up in my panel.
Agree imagine I turn the breaker off remotely and someone is home and since power is off in the circuit they think they are safe. They start doing something then I don’t know and I turn back on oops. I know they should turn off the physical switch or pull taps. But I think the convince is just for flash and also can set up a safety issue.
Energy Management Systems (EMS) are here and as soon as every electrician gets onboard the bigger our industry will become.
Next step is EPMS for the "consumer." It's existed for decades in large commercial and industrial. But it's getting to the point where devices are small enough and easy/ inexpensive enough it can be installed in the home.
Just a matter of time now.
This is similar to how Enphase works, without integrated breakers, except they are installed in a sub panel with a din rail.
Yeah the thing hogging up two 4 extra slots to control one circuit is a bust, most panels are fully populated already. But it’s a step in the right direction. Would be good for an electric water heater to be able to avoid peak demand charges
This makes sense for existing construction, but why on earth would you not use a Leviton load center with plug in neutral breakers that act as relays for load shedding? (The old breakers only let you turn them off, but the new ones are on/off relays.)
Super sweet!!!!!
Damn, his panels are so clean
Cool device. A black b red... Joking... Million uses like it.
No shit that neat. Thanks for sharing
I have found many relays breakers on amazon, but they are all for the dim rail systems, outside the US. So this is a bit of a game changer for US panels.
That is cool.
Good for load management on Generators
How well does the brain-box connect when its antenna will be inside a sealed metal box?
Do they / can they change state on a power outage? I’m planning a service upgrade, and rewire for my garage-shop. And have been planning to add a sub panel on a contactor, so when the power goes out, the feeds to the machines will stay off. But the lights will come on when the power is restored. It only takes one short black out, and the table saw launching a board past you and through the closed garage door, to decide blackouts with running tools can be dangerous.
Very cool tec
Don’t need a relay to load shed to charge your car. There are other devices you can install that monitor your usage and will only charge accordingly.
The replay doesn't let you control all circuits in the panel, though, right? Only the ones that are under the initial replay you install?
Square D QO is the best there is period
This would be a great product if it was local control with a cloud option. I don't want the cloud to be able to load shed my house...thanks. Great video though please keep it up!
Love the concept, hate the fact that the 120v rely takes two positions. Just checked my Sense app and I see these Wiser options in it already, and I have the original Sense hardware not the branded.
cause remembering not to use your welder, air compressor, oven and dryer at the same time your AC is running and car is charging is too difficult. I just added a shut off fuse box to my 220 compressor so it doesnt kick on while welding. Im typically not cooking at the same time either. Maybe there are some special needs for this but almost seems like a solution looking for a problem
In Europe we use DIN-rail panels with a huge amount of mountable devices - in residential and commercial buildings. Are they just not common in America or are you using them not at all?
The DONUTS are actually called CTs.
Go the extra mile 😂. CT = Current Transformers
@@JohnFields Technically they don't transform. I am well aware of this myself lol. I agree.
I do not want to have a phone app. Give me a locally run website on the device and local API.
Agreed. He doesn't go into detail, but I'd assume based on the size of the antenna that it is WiFi. So what happens when you lose internet service? Nothing works, that's what.
All the account creation, data collection, and dependency on the cloud is a no for me.
Cool product. Not sure if I would trust phone app over time. Seems like every time phone pushes o/s updates the apps start misbehaving or just crap out. Waiting to get app support is hell and a time bandit as well.
Just looked up my Sense settings and it's not showing up options to connect devices, only what Sense found out. Is there an upgraded version of the Sense device for it to send commands?
This is a Sense unit that was branded & running custom firmware for Schneider electric. Sadly I don't think you can use a Sense in the manner you want.
I have a Sense box, love it, a little sad they aren't wanting to sell me a few of those relays. 😢
You should do a video on heat pumps
3:40 Electrician U standing in front of a panel while holding a phone with low battery, makes me chuckle. There's a good joke in there somewhere. 😆
The people with the most poorly maintained cars are mechanics, the people with pipes that leak are plumbers, and electricians apparently run around like my teenaged daughters with perpetually almost dead cell phones. ;)
Haha, it's a real problem. Co worker was just giving me crap for it.
Pretty handy for peoples second homes turning off water heaters when they are away
Does this mess with the whole premise of home run to the breakers? I thought it had to be one complete wire from end to end.
He mentioned the EV charger, when you are doing load calculations for a panel, it doesn’t matter if you have relays or not. Either your panel is sufficient or its not. Am i wrong?
Does anyone know where to purchase these, and how much they cost?
Fun
Is it part of the smart meter laser technology
Where can you buy them?
I'm so scared of customer asking me to install that in a tan Federal Pacific panel for his new Tesla charger.
Neat. Good idea.
Q: The relays do not count toward the 42 pole max ( yes it is extra equipment but there are only 42 active poles. The relay's are down stream devices from the pole )
The 42 pole max was increased to 60. But I doubt one of those is on a service requiring these load-shed relays.
Why would you not want to have the relays on the load side of the breaker instead of the Wayne side of the breaker?
The relays are on the load side of the breaker. It goes bus -> breaker -> relay -> load
I think I’d rather just install relays external to the panel so we don’t waste slots on the buss.
Yeah - this is cute, but somewhat inpracticle unless they are going in a sub-panel with a lot of spare space. Plus I don't like that you have to confirm your selection once you slick the on and off buttons on the app. And, if course, this is its own app whereas I already have a home automation app for all of my doors, lights, switched outlets, HVAC, etc. If I needed switched relays/contactors, I'd just go with the Enbrighten z-wave 40 amp contact that already comes in a metal enclosure and is suitable for indoors and outdoors.
Good idea for sure. But i can see panels that are full with no more slots, being limited on this feature. Or needing a upgrade
Sounds like a typical homeowner problem. The idea and product is great, lets leave the "slot" problem to the customer-where it belongs.
I wonder if in the future some version of this could replace lighting control panels 🤔 (or am i crazy)
Help me understand something. I have 5 devices that have high demand. Washer, dryer, heater heater, stove, at my wife’s blow dryer. The water heater is the only one I can’t change my behavior to turn off. Old house, yes. But do newer houses have so many power hungry devices that you’d want to put a relay to an oven instead of just not using it? Resetting clocks on ovens will really win the wife over.
Your water heater being off for the duration of a car charge would never be noticed, unless your family showers all throughout the night. "Just not using" a power hungry device will not satisfy the code that would forbid a high demand device like a level 2 car charger putting your service beyond capacity and therefore fail inspection unless some type of load management system is incorporated.
I don’t know man.. it seems like a solution that no one asked for. Why would I want to install a relay that eats up a breaker position? This would be phenomenal if the breaker was integrated into the relay.
This WILL be hacked before soon. Good idea but security will be HUGE ISSUE.
Agreed… I think it’s total crap, Who really needs these and how much do they cost? Probably very expensive.
Just what I want the whole World Wide Web to be able to turn my power out.
@@Jaycren86: That’s already more of a possibility than most people realize; regardless of whether or not you have any “smart home” devices in your panel.
May I ask a question? I want to add an outlet to my garage that will provide 3600 watts (2880 continuous) that is GFCI protected. Can you outline how this would be done? Would I need two GFCIs? two 12/2 wires? two breakers? or is there a simpler way.
Way more info needed to answer your question.
Just another device for hackers to hack. You may be in control of your circuits, but so is anybody else that knows their way around RFID’s in devices😁👍🏽.
Nice but you would need space in panel
Antenna needs to be outside
Seems a bit clunky, I would wait until it’s all integrated into one unit
I think that intelligent load management can be done in better ways. Control at the receptacle, switch or device would be better in general.
There's no reason that you have to or would really want to do this at the branch circuit level.
I guess if you want it. Getting to be too much technology these days. Reminds me of KISS. It is something to see it can be controlled, but really not needed.
I'm 99.9% sure homeowners don't want to turn off breakers to charge their expensive car. They would just want a bigger panel :)
I think the scenario is more about if a load calc of a given service doesn't support the extra demand the charger would require. I think that is just a bad example. I see this more for automation and energy monitoring.
Pretty sure most homeowners wouldn't mind turning off their water heater in the middle of the night,.
Don’t want this going through the phone though
I was excited until I saw the breaker is not part of the relay. Sucks to need double the spaces for each circuit.
If you'll notice, he's showing this off under the ideal conditions of having a 42 circuit 200a panel, that has only 24 breaker slots occupied. So 18 unused slots in what is supposed to be a "loaded panel" which is not a real-world scenario.
It would be amazing if, it didnt take up extra spaces.
Oh good, load shedding by some idiot on the other end of their phone. I can see the freezer burnt steaks, melted ice cream, and dead dog from turning off the air conditioning
Only if a complete idiot configures the panel. This is specific application oriented, not having an entire panel of with everything on relays. You'd put dryers, water heaters, maybe ovens on something like this, not your HVAC or refrigerators.
@@JCWren We will leave the wisdom of doing laundry with nobody home and baking of cookies with nobody home for another time!
@@rogerpenske2411 Dustin specifically said "load *shedding*" - or did I not hear that correctly?
@@Struthio_Camelus I did load shedding when installing energy management system computers into large buildings back in the 80s and 90s. It has practical applications in very large commercial, industrial applications. With a very large house, and probably multiple buildings, this would be useful. For the typical home, though, probably well over 90% of single-family dwellings, Apartment, and condominiums, it’s complete overkill. But what the device does do is it further distributes control down to the device instead of devices needing to be connected via home run back to a central computer
More spyware yay! It would awesome if you got money back from looking at what you doing.
This... Looks like a security vulnerability waiting for an exploit...
Robits! Inside my panel! For the soviets to control! No thanks.
Yay! More insecure IoT devices.
Waste of a screen lol
great, more complex clutter to sardine pack into panels. 🙄
This is nothing new
You sure? I was looking for similar products last year but I didn't have much luck, I probably didn't do a deep enough dive though.
@@jaythompson5102 it’s a newer technology but the concept has been around for awhile. Automation type systems have been around for a long time.
This looks a lot like the Shelly Pro 4PM
Or u could NOT charge your Tesla in the garage & come home to a Non-Incinerated house. Life is becoming hyper-complicated, just say NO😊