148: Tommy Francesco | The Kiss That Kicked Me Out of BYU
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- As a convert to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Tommy Francesco wanted to do what was right. He studied with the missionaries, joined the church, obeyed the word of wisdom, served a mission and generously gave of his time and talents-but Tommy was gay and that reality met him at every intersection in Mormonism.
One weekend at BYU, a kiss with another man changed Tommy’s life forever.
That kiss was a violation of BYU’s Honor Code. Within days, Tommy had been stripped of his academic credits and expelled as a student at BYU. Then came church discipline.
This is a story of the trials and experiences of a person who tried to do good and to follow what felt natural and whole.
#LatterGayStories #BYU #HonorCode #ComingOut - Zábava
I didn’t grow up Mormon, but I grew up very southern Christian and I am a lesbian. These stories are very relatable!!
He’s a friend of mine, we have had some of the best times and laughs together. I always had a huge crush on him in school, but he was Mormon and it wasn’t aloud at all even though I knew he was curious.. I just love him. His talent is as big as his heart!
An inspiring story of remarkable resilience in the face of ruthless injustice. Wishing you all the best in the future, Tommy!
Inspiring story of how a talented, dedicated, truly wonderful young man is rising above longtime, cruel abuse that he suffered because of disgusting religious bigotry. Thanks for sharing this .
I love Tommy. I am so sorry that life has been so cruel to him, so happy that he survived. Will church leaders ever be ashamed enough?
The young gentlemen is such a wonderful human. His story is heartbreaking, but at the same time inspiring how he has traveled through his pain, Good luck to you Tommy. you are a beautiful sweet man. Kyle thank you for your continued inspiring interviews. I am a Soto Zen Buddhist, a non-Mormon, non-Christian, I am so still invested in your channel content of incredible life stories..
The honor code at church affiliated institutions is precisely why when I was pursuing post secondary education and I chose to go to another secular university. I am glad Tommy was able to come through this experience for what seems the better and I hope in the future he has nothing but success
You definitely dodged a bullet by going to a "secular" university! Thanks for your encouragement!! @tommydammit
Brilliant podcast Kyle and Tommy!! Thanks so much. So much I could relate to. I joined the LDS Church as an adult. Nothing is talked about regarding homosexuality no one wants to talk about . it. I served a mission like Tommy and found that afterwards there is no place for you. The hierarchy can be so homophobic, many members are homophobic. The only route to happiness is to get out of such a toxic environment. Fifty years later so little has changed. Thanks again for your confirmation of this .
I have many years lived a life alone and abstainance has not cured me as I was told. 😢
I love every single one of y’all episodes. My hope is that young people can stop being taught that they are basically broken. They aren’t broken. I’m a very open parent to my two teenage daughters 17 and 19 years old. My oldest daughter tried to talk with boys in her later years in high school and when she was a senior she texted me while I was at work and left a message that left a huge hole in my heart. After her going to therapy for months she finally in a very indirect way told me she was gay. She is a shy, extremely smart, genuine, had very amazing friends but I do believe that her and a boy from her high school were covering for each other they both were/-
are truly pure kids that never slept around like the other kids that were not only doing that but also drugs, alcohol, vapes, you name it and parents wouldn’t really bat a eye at all but when she told me I was so happy because I thought whatever she was going through was possibly not going to be a easy fix. I was 1000% okay with her choice, as was her father, and sister and basically our entire family. I tell her often she is very lucky, I wouldn’t have ever turned my back on her EVER but the other members of our family immediately told me that they felt kids have to be born this way because they knew how I raised the girls and how good/pure they were and still are, I’m grateful that the extended family showed her grace and we all absolutely love her girlfriend. They are currently in college together at the same college. My daughter had wrote in that message that she was in a dark space that she couldn’t get out of and she prayed every single night that she wouldn’t wake up the next day because she didn’t want to let anyone down, especially us because she was gay. I had my worries about how the world would treat her but as for her family we stand strong with her. I will never not believe they are born that way. She is perfect just the way she is, I feel blessed it’s like I gained another daughter. Please to all younger kids, teenagers, are adults hurting yourself is never the answer. Please reach out for help like my daughter did, if you can’t do it with your family they have different routes you can take, for some people depending on their family they have to wait a little longer to come out and that’s okay but please do not think harming yourself is the answer. I asked my daughter how long she knew she didn’t like boys and she said since she was small, she knew she was different. Parents truly need to just love their kids no matter what. If you have a good kid that does well that just so happens to be gay, it’s not the end of the world. You should love your unconditionally period.
Tommy, thank you for sharing your story. I recommend maybe you continue to do videos, speak up, and use your platform for good. I'm glad you told your story.
Thomas! We knew you at SVU. You are SO amazing, SO talented and we are so happy you are doing well! -The Smiths
aww hi kiley! Thank you!! Are you on insta?
@@thomaspetrungaro Yes! Rob is at @mottopuck and I am @mrs.smithgoestowashington xo
@@CherryBlossomstheblog got it and followed! :-)!
I felt I was watching an intricate drama, similar to a solo play by Beckett or Cocteau. The man remains a conundrum at the end, but you feel his recounting of his experience is without malice and backed by a quest that can only be called religious, a search for what the Buddhists call enlightenment. He was right to study theater, he’s pretty much a natural spellbinder. Managing before others the force of his yearning. Those hands, that face, always in motion. I’m exhausted, as after an opera.
Wow this is quite the review! Thank you for leaving your impressions. As for the gestures, that might be some of my Italian showing through. aha Best of luck to you and hope to see you on my channel @tommydammit
What a brave and wonderful young man. Thank you for sharing your story. Your strength is remarkable. Wishing you continued joy and success.
That's very kind of you! Hope to see you around :-)
@@thomaspetrungaro Just started following you on CZcams. Love your presentations. 🌈
A beautiful, sweet young man (beautiful blue eyes !) and a heartbreaking story. Removed from a show TWICE at an important time in your life !! Failed your classes because of withdrawal! OMG! What tenacity for you to succeed in life!! The “Church” is singly more destructive to our youth than any other organization, EVER. This is a horror story not only because of the real consequences (although, those are certainly huge!), but because of the guilt and what we do to ourselves ! I am not LDS, but I have similar stories as I hear on this channel. I am so sorry, Tommy, for your heartbreak. I know it took me almost 40 years to come back to my (faith) church. I pray you find … a life, a place, a “love of your life”, and peace in your life ! You DEFINITELY have the “light” in your eyes! God Bless you!
I left my church at 26 and so far have not missed it. The world has so much knowledge and beauty to be enjoyed without the fear and superstition given by churches. I could still change, am only 88.
I think the part that really gets me is that these teenage kids are honest. When I was growing up they would’ve NEVER told on themselves. The “perfect bishops”🙄😂 they would’ve never known the difference had he said nothing. Edit: being honest got him kicked out and could have ruined his life. I’m grateful that he seems to be doing amazing, much love from the Deep South❤️🙏🏼🥰
So true! Just goes to show the extent of control the church exerts over these kids.
I'm so glad I found this community. I have told other religious gay men to come watch these. We need to know there are others of us and we are not unicorns. Congrats to you Tommy 😘. Hugs to you
Tommy, you are a bright light - a talented charismatic man and you'll find your way!!! I went to BYU, decades ago, studied musical theatre. I auditioned for Young Ambassadors but although they said I was good enough, they said I "didn't fit". I left the church later, when I met a loving gay couple in Canada who's relationship seemed so much healthier than many in the church. I realized that there was nothing wrong with their relationship - in fact it was a wonderful example of how to love. So therefore the Church wasn't true, and so I had to leave. It felt like a divorce. I can't even imagine what YOU went thru. It took me a while to find my way, but I did. And I'm so much happier! And you're on your way!
My spiritual beliefs are complex. I refuse to align with or be controlled by an organized religion ever again. But my beliefs align most closely with Rev William Barber, who's a Christian pastor, LGBTQ+ positive, and social justice activist. He believes that Christ's gospel is about loving acceptance and loving action to lift the vulnerable up. What the church did to you, was incredibly ruthless and cruel, and the antithesis of everything Christ, the god of love, supposedly represents. The absolute brutality of it was appalling. I'm so so sorry!
Keep shining, Tommy, and creating, and healing and finding and spreading joy and love!! I hope you find a wonderful partner - you deserve it!!
And BTW, FAB version of "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" Keep it up!!
thank you so much! you're extremely insightful and I appreciate your point of view.
When you mentioned the harder you tried to be good the harder Satan seemed to work harder as well. It brought me to tears. I am 55, married with 5 children. I feel I can't come out. I'd hurt so many people and probably ruin so much.
Its got nothing to do with Satan. So why you bring that up, is a mystery. Are you saying your desires are Satanic? Thats whats wrong with religion. You are given desires through hormones and then you say its Satan. WTF?? So if you had to leave your family, and come out and BE HAPPY, then you are kowtowing to SATAN! WOW. What a choice. Be miserable in the religions cDNA tin your family, or choose SATAN! You need therapy.
Tommy, you are an amazing man. You may not realize the gigantic life lesson that you have undertaken and won. What I see is that you lived so many years with a vail that kept you from seeing the true beauty that you were born with. But on top of that, what you did to readdress your own connection with yourself and your maker, speaks so highly of your own self respect and undeniably vitality for life. Thank you for sharing your story and helping all of us understand the outstanding gift of being human and the God-given opportunity to learn our own unique life lessons, so we can find our path of wisdom that outranks all of society's blind belief systems. Tommy Francesco, YOU ROCK.
Thank you so much! That means a lot to me Ted!
Thank you for this candid interview.
I love this guy, lucky people who get to be friends with him.
If the Mormon church was a country, we'd call it a "police state". I worked in higher education for 30 years. If I had been on an accrediting team for the college this man attended and learned about the academic harm and damage which the college administration perpetrated on this young man, I would do all in my power to have accreditation withheld or denied. His sins, if they are indeed sins, should have nothing to do with his academic achievement and credits.
Tommy, you are clearly an intelligent and wonderful young man. I'm sorry the church put you through this. It's abusive, to be honest.
Thats super sweet of you to say! It was challenging to share some of my own story. But also freeing.
Is this one of the reasons Big 12 members hesitated to invite BYU to join? Should a school that abuses gay students be allowed in the conference.
I just read the BYU Honor Code online, it mentions nothing about kissing, nor anything specific to what is appropriate or inappropriate between two men. I'm confused, if it's not sexual, and it's not specifically prohibited in the Code how can a kiss get someone kicked out?
You told the LDS bishop about the relationship with boy at a secular school event? How did the school find out? If I confessed this to my Catholic Priest or Bishop they could not divulge this to anyone. Period.
I appreciate the videos that you produce, I have one question I would like to ask. Why are all the guests I have seen are young people. I think there are a lot of people out there in the same situation. I know I am one.
We have a wide variety of stories on our channel. Feel free to browse all of them.
Sorry ... another comment. Religion has caused so much hardship. And yet, I still want to be part of my religious community.
I only started watching. Learned about you on Morman Podcast. Do you ever interview Lesbians?
The title is deceptive. It was more than just "a kiss", but he certainly didn't deserve to have his life ruined. I'm glad he bounced back, but that's what gay people do. I am glad he decided to stay in the fields of arts and entertainment. He really shows a talent.
I like what Tommy said about masculinity and femininity have nothing to do with sexuality. I wish more straight and gay people realized that. People are too quick to brand a man who is effeminate as gay, and by the same token, some gay people, it appears to me, don't really know how to be themselves so they adopt a phony feminine persona. Some gay men are slightly effeminate naturally, and people can tell the genuine from the fake.
It was interesting to see Tommy moving from craving an LDS environment vs craving a more diverse environment. He's right. You finally get to see the world as it is.
Kyle called it "the religious issue". I call it the "gospel of dead works". Doing all the "righteous stuff" never made anybody more righteous, or cured them of being gay. It generally has the opposite effect. When will the church learn this?
I don't understand what Tommy said about being "more gay" or "less gay". You are who you are. Maybe he meant being more of "his authentic self". People like Larry Craig and the church think that acting effeminate and having gay sex makes you gay. If you are gay, you are gay regardless of whether you put on an act or not.
Best wishes to Tommy, going forward, and hope he finds a great deal of joy in his chosen field.
Hes so sad! What a traumatic experience! And how awful for him that he was made to feel the way he felt. Shame on the church. SHAME ON THEM! Bigots.. Hypocrites. Dismiss the teachings of what religion is supposed to be. UNREAL!
“Now I love Weed……” (43:43) WHAT!!! …did I hear that correct? I’m shocked! 🙀
Yep! I got a medical card about a year ago. 😎
Cults are not places to be true to your nature. Glad you got out.
Thank you!! It feels so good to breathe again. :-) Hope to see you on my channel @tommydammit 😎
A lot of older people.
Did Mr. Francesco consider what his act of confession was going to do his his more vested student buddy? I mean the narrative that this is a student that got kicked out of BYUI just for kissing a boy runs counter to the guilt he obviously felt in the need to confess. Granted he didn’t know where this was going but either it was a big deal or it wasn’t. Why confess? Yeah, he was prepping for a mission and he says he is honest to a fault but if the host wants to spin this he should get the narrative correct.
Religious pressure to do the right thing! Blame the stupid religion. And then they dont do the right by shaming him and shunning him! If they actually believe God forgives, so can they. Its funny how religious leaders when they make mistakes they plead with the congregation to pray for them and forgive them and all that bullshit! But when. A parishioner does it, its wrong.
I don't understand why you confess "sins" to the bishop. Isn't that a Catholic thing? It was probably a relief to finally leave, no more pretending, a chance to remove the masks, as you say.
In the Mormon Church Bishops claim to have authority to help people repent of their sins. Unlike the Catholic Church, this is not an anonymous process. Mormon leaders keep detailed records on us since birth.
@@thomaspetrungaro Thanks for the explanation, Tommy.
As a Catholic, who stepped away, confession was totally anonymous. The Priest was simply the mortal person who decided on penance, which was usually several minutes of prayer before leaving the Church. We all just made up "sins", mainly because we were well behaved kids. Another good thing is that I can attend weddings, baptisms and funerals regularly, without problems. I always loved the Christmas mass, because of the uplifting hymns, and still attend. LGBGTQI persons are now totally welcomed and the Pope declared that Catholic families should embrace their LGBGT members. I know 2 gay couples who were blessed in the church, following their civil marriage. It's becomming the norm. This is Europe, where change is rapid. I'm told the US Catholic church is slow to change. I admire your courage and wish you the best future.
So he shouldnt have felt the need to open up to his bishop and do the right thing? You are saying he should have done the wrong thing and not say anything? REALLY??? Thats what you got from this whole talk? Sin and keep quiet because hes not Catholic. I dont think he did anything wrong. The church does. And he does. The catholic wouldnt have kicked him out. Thats the difference. They would have granted him forgiveness. And they are obliged to tell their bishops what they do. Its catch 22. Dont say anything and feel guilt. Or tell them and get kicked out. So its not for help or advice or council. Its for punishment. That is why they have to tell their idiotic bishops, for guidance and then when they do the right thing they are punished. SAYS MORE ABOUT THIS FUCKING religion, and religion, than it does for the people who feel that they have sinned. JUST RIDICULOUS. Religion is all supposed to be about forgiveness and council, and not tell me the truth and then we will kick you out for one mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@thomaspetrungaro the Catholic Church would have granted you absolution and forgiveness. And penance. Not that I agre with all that mumbo jumbo BS. And confessions can be done face to face. But they would not have acted on the confession anyway. Irrespective of weather its by face or behind a screen. Your church was wrong because they tell you to confide in them and then you got punished for being honest and forthcoming. In psychiatric terms that is known as Double Binding. e.g A parent says to a child, come to me I want to give you a kiss and then when you do go they slap you. Its confusing. Thats what the church did to you and for you. Tell the truth, so we can punish you. Keep silent and feel guilty. WTF!!! You are better off out of all this absolute bullshit.
That's just it you can't follow after the desires of the natural man. The church has always taught the Saints to learn to overcome the natural man instead of giving into the natural man. That's always been the theme....However the Apostles have prayed much over these difficult issues to do with same sex attraction, but God still keeps saying no on allowing same sex relationships.
Probably because God doesn't exist.
@@teresapitman1659 Unfortunately that's not the case, as he does exist. And that's why I taken him seriously.
The natural part of us that seeks connection, belonging, and intimacy is nothing to be ashamed of. Good luck on your journey!
@@thomaspetrungaro Unfortunately giving into same sex attraction behavior is not a celestial law that the Father upholds in his kingdom. For the Church only teaches the celestial laws.
@@germanslice I suppose that’s for you to know and for me to find out 😙