DMR vs Analog FM
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Comparison of DMR vs. Analog FM using Anyton AT-D878UV.
I worked with Brian Slosson, KC2GNV, to do some testing and comparison of DMR vs. analog FM. We are only 37 miles appart but dropping down to 1 watt was a good test to test the range of analog, while showing the strength of DMR.
See hamninja.com for more info on this hike. Video was shot by Christian Claborne and Brian Slosson, editing by Claborne (so you can blame me).
Great test, thanks very much for posting. I enjoy taking advantage of multipath “sweet spots” to get a 2-watt rubber-ducked DMR CCR into a repeater 20 miles away with 0% BER. The “cliff effect” takes a minute to learn to manage, because the effect is delayed, as opposed to immediate null responses on FM analog.
Wow. Just getting back into it and finding out about DMR which I had never heard of. Listening to the chatter on the national TGs (via BM network "Hose" app) has been enough to convince me not to even bother with it, but THESE SIMPLEX TESTS ARE AMAZING. Unreal! "Like night and day." On 1 watt!.
Thanks for your work recording this, gents. Definitely looking at the anytone or the btech firmware swapped anytone for p2p direct comms not ragchewing.
Thanks for your comment. I really like my Anytone for analog as well. I did a review a while back at hamninja.com/anytone
Wow both sound great on that radio great sound quality
Chris & Brian
N1CLC & KC2GNV
This is a very clear Comparison and DMR is the clear winner.
Thanks guys for proving what is generally known of the clear simplex is DMR signals even using low power.
AI6CX
Steve
This is a well done comparison video. Great job!!
I did my own tests at many different areas and distances and I found that analog is better. Analog easier to understand, further range. DMR sounds like a robot… harder to understand and shorter distance.
Radio I used was BTECH DMR-6X2 PRO.
Thanks for commenting. I agree that analog has better quality but not at the edge of max range. More testing and other observations like yours are needed.
@@TheHamNinja At edge of max range it did not pick up digital or just picked up for half a second with nothing… click… no sound while analog it was able to pick it up and understandable.
Oh very cool! I'm just getting back into the hobby after a long absence and I thank you both for this comparative video! My plan is to get an Anytone 878 once I get paid! DMR so much better than Analog.
but can you use dmr to talk to an analogue radio ?
@@jkpisces no,digital to digital,analógico to analogic
Nice work gents. I will do some more ARES simplex drills with DMR as a component. N1TEN Dennis
I still have my hand held Icom ic-31a . In DV 440 mhz mode I can get super clarity digital voice when I drove in my car and my daughter in her room good 2 miles city tests. I’m sure I can get 5 times the range with external antenna.
I can also hit a repeater with a Yaesu FTM-100dr base station with a 35 feet external antenna which is about 90 miles away which analog can’t do w
Very nice video! Thanks for posting. One comment though. In the final part of the test, both digital and analog were right on the edge. The digital sounded much better, but if you had another power level to drop to neither mode would have come through. It isn't that digital is significantly more capable, it just works better when you're right at the failure point.
Not to be a naysayer. DMR is very cool, and there is more to it than just simplex sound quality.
I have had tests where analog just couldn't get through. Also, most carry their HT with at least squelch of 1. In that case, they'd never hear a lot of these transmissions but would have heard the DMR transmissions.
Cool! I try to offer 441 dmr to chasers on activations. My primary experience of dmr clarity at edge of propagation is from Temescal peak to 91 fwy no go (33) with fm but clear 59 with dmr.
Amazing except they should have been done on the same frequency never know if radio or antenna dynamics made a huge difference between DMR and analog however not disputing DMR is superior
Thanks for the comment. We did stay on 70cm to remove the band variable. The frequencies used were 446 & 441 so I don't expect that spread to influence the test too much.
@Colm Thomas Reilly I find flutter is eliminated on 70cm with DMR Colm, no matter the speed of the vehicle! Makes up for the slightly synthetic audio of digital when comparing with analogue .
Yes, should be on the exact same frequency.
Very nice comparison. Thanks.
nice one! wonder how DMR would compete with M17 on the edge of reception
Thank you for this video. It confirmed what I always suspected...I hate the sound of digital audio, as it sounds (to me) like off-key musical tones trying to impersonate the natural analog waves of FM modulation (sort of like the sound of digital CD music compared to an LP record. While most people like it better, I never did). I don't have a cellphone for the same reason. You just saved me upwards of $400. No digital for me. Thanks again. 73s.
KD2DKO
You're tripping. Ever used single side band? It sounds like donald duck standing in a fan when conditions are poor. Digital audio when it's on the edge of reception does not sound the same as strong signal digital. The point of the video was that on analog, at 1 watt, static was all she wrote. Digital at 1 watt, communication was possible. It's not about how it subjectively sounds. I thought the sound of DMR was weird until I used nothing but DMR for over a year. After that, I couldn't stand hearing the snap, crackle, pop, of analog.
@@paaao well he specifically talked about fm
@@gamingforlive2150 he sure did. What's your point? His point was that FM sounds better because this test conversation where digital was on the very bleeding edge of being sustainable, sounded bad. That makes zero sense. Digital is used %100 everywhere now, from cell phones, to police, fire, ems, radios. It's not used because it sounds better or worse. It's used because it's 1000 times more flexible in our networked/digital world, and can reduce the bandwidth required to perform all the modern communication taking place. Also, as the video showed, when on the fridge of communication, you're much more likely to get a msg back/forth using digital due to the error correction, and smaller bandwidth. This video doesn't even go into DMR direct text msg'ing which ALWAYS gets through once analog FM can no longer make the trip.
Plus I guarantee you he uses SSB to talk on HF, and not FM. Most of these guys complaining about the way digital audio sounds will talk for hours using SSB that is in and out, filled with static, and drifting in frequency all over the place. They're not doing it for the audio, they're doing it to communicate long distances. Pot calling the kettle black.
I really don't like or agree with any of the digital modes but I'm going to get radios and learn them anyway because I'm not stupid. Going to get the new Kenwood for DSTAR the beat Yaesu with Fusion and an the best one for DMR I can find.
Great test thanks!!
DMR for sure
Nicely done
Not a fan of the audio quality of these low-bitrate digital modes DMR or DSTAR... Sounds like you're talking through a vocoder. Is there any other digital mode that has closer to analog FM quality?
That was pure SSB but I might have had the NR turned on, giving it that digital sound.
ok, DMR simplex is something that I have to learn how to set my radio up for, have not tried that yet. Will have to do some research to figure out how to set up my AnyTone AT-878-UV up for it.
A lot of code plugs published by various clubs normally include some DMR simplex setups. Create a talk Group called "Direct Mode" or simplex, with talk group 99. Assign that to a digital channel that you setup. I have 441.000 setup that way along with a few others.
Enjoy
@@TheHamNinja Thanks, I will see if I can figure that out. Unfortunately our club here does not publish code plugs, they are a very strange bunch here. It took us years before the public was even able to have access to the DMR repeaters here unless you were part of DEM, they are definitely a "closed group" of people here.
@@TheHamNinja Do u have to add a digital contact and a talk group? Sorry, I'm a newb.
Would it be too much to ask if you could make a video?
I've looked for days on the net on how to set this up.
@@rotor676 The only thing you really need is a talkgroup 99 entered. You can manually set the channel and mode for digital on the radio. Everything can be done directly on the radio. If you are setting up a bunch of repeaters, it's definitely easier using the PC software.
It would have been nice to have same spec but pure analogue FM HT next to them as a reference. As these hybrids might underperform on FM.
Hi,
I have a few Baofeng UV-5R radios that I’ve been experimenting with. Recently, I decided to upgrade and got a pair of Quansheng UV-K5's, which I really like. Then, I felt the need for digital radios and purchased a Baofeng DM-1701, hoping to catch some local digital chatter. However, I haven’t been able to pick up anything at all. It seems like I might be doing something wrong, or maybe there’s simply no one talking.
Thanks.
P.S. I got the digital radio because whenever I scan the area and hear chatter, it’s just static. I know this is because they’re transmitting digitally. After googling digital ham radios, I found the DM-1701 and decided to try it.
I've used Fusion, and DMR, and a friend's D-STAR. After doing some additional research, I really like DMR for it's end-user centered design. In most cases, you have control what the repeater subscribes to. I've written a few articles on DMR. Several of those are focused on the Anytone implementation but there are several there that apply to any DMR radio. Have fun!!!
@@TheHamNinja Thanks, but I am having zero fun because, like I said, I am not picking up anything on this radio. Seems like DMR requires you to set this thing up first, before you can even hear anything. I did not know this is how it works. Anyhow. Thanks.
can i use simplex dmr and speak to a analogue radio? second question if it will still be as clear on the analogue receiving radio?
Roger, Roger. Give me vectors Victor.
It is known that the anytone sucks on FM, should have another FM only radios to compare.
Just would be nice if it doesn't sound like robot.
Is this possibly proving that the radio used is a direct conversion model, and so very poor on FM ? Ken GW3TMH.
Fm beter audio! Dmr audio is not good... robot 👎🏻
9:03 show dmr is much more clean to hear comparied to analog
Yes, when you’re at the edge of the range that is true. When you are closer together without any path noise on analog, analog sounds nicer.
Great video! 73
awesome test. since I´m new to DMR , is there any link how to setup a DMR direct call radio to radio
( no repeters ) ?
DMR HF will surely follow
Sky1 yes they have a device for HF digital. The conditions must be good in order to work properly. Ham Radio Now did a video on HF digital.
The only issue is the audio sounds too robotic and unnatural!
Analog is lousy, noisy and hard to understand compared to DMR.
DMR harder to understand.. like a robot.
They both have their utility. I use Digital at work all day with UHF close range. Everyone sounds drunk. Analog is more natural sounding but more power is needed . Apples and oranges depending on real-time conditions. That’s why it’s great to have multi mode.
Wow that's so far from reality it's hilarious
I wonder if the radio were superhet it would make much difference.
I've tried to comunicate with a friend who are 1km appart from me at a urban enviorement and the result was no good: we don't listen to each other at VHF, just at UHF. In analog mode we do listen each other loud and clear both in UHF and VHF. We use a Baofeng DM-1701 with openGD77 and the same TS and CC. What is this direct mode? how can I set it up in my DM-1701?
The accepted practice is for both parties to setup a chennel to use Talk Group 99, which is the "direct talk group", and a common simplex frequency. On the Anytone, the slot and color code don't make a difference.
So a digital radio can also work in analog mode?
Yes. The Anytone 868 / 878 radios support DMR and analog modes. Excellent radios.
Christian Claborne Anytone vs Motorola thoough..? Suggestions? Opinions?
It depends on the radio. I'm sure that there are dedicated DMR or other types of digital radios but all of the amateur models that I'm familiar with do both.
Roger Roger?? Really?
INB4 "over and out"
"Check it out corporal, we'll cover you!"
Digital is amazing compared to analog. You guys sold me
What was the distance between you guys?
If I buy a DMR radio of A Brand is it compatible with another brand's DMR radio or do I need to buy it with the same brand?
Enzo Pulido For the most part they are all compatible.
@@TheHamNinja as long as they are tiar 2.
Baofeng tiar 1 will not work.
What was the distance between the two stations?
If memory serves me right, about 35 miles
35 miles, rubber ducks and 1 watt on UHF?
@@TheAnnoDomini and I stayed on the ground to make it more challenging. On the edge, DMR wins
My mind was blown with the rubber duck test. Absolutely superior utility.
So how far is this able to communicate?
What was the height difference between you two? Because in a line of flat sight, the max distance is around 6 miles.
Hi John, thanks for the question. We were approximately 37 miles apart. I was probably 6,200 feet above Brian. I worked him near the edge of the mountain and then went and sat down 50 yards away from him so we had some dirt between us. One of the main points was to do comparisons between the two modes to compare capability and quality.
73
N1CLC
Is the same behavior true for Fusion C4FM?
I haven't done any testing. I've used a FT2DR in simplex about twice. There are two modes that it works in. From my understanding in one of the modes they sacrifice some of the error correction and use it for position information.
What was the distance of you both?
37 miles. Important to note we were using antennas on our HTs and I was sitting down a good part of the time.
Has anyone ever tried this with a Diamond X30 aerial? About to do that myself...
Just tried it. Awesome performance!
Odd talking.