How No Way Home Finally Fixed Peter Parker
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- čas přidán 31. 03. 2022
- Spider-Man has been a fixture in entertainment for decades. Though, each new version seems to tread the same water with portraying Peter Parker's origin in becoming Spider-Man. Until the recent MCU version of the friendly neighborhood wall crawler. Tom Holland's Spider-Man was thrown right into the middle of an ongoing plot line, forgoing a lengthy origin. That is, until Spider-Man No Way Home finally gave Peter Parker a noteworthy origin for him to become what Spider-Man actually represents.
#Spider-ManNoWayHome #PeterParker #Nerdstalgic
Written by Dave Baker
Edited by Brian Nappi - Zábava
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I love y'all but I disagree with this vid
Far from home was the sentence - " with great power comes great responsibility" as a movie
Green goblin
@@kingdomanimations1193 but he didn’t learn anything he hasn’t learned to fix his problems on his own
I have to disagree with you on the drone thing. I didn't care for either, but that wasn't the worst thing that happened to Spider-Man. That would be either One More Day or Sins Past.
Where's the other dude?
I've talked about this with my brother: When Peter first showed up in the MCU we all just assumed he'd already had his Uncle Ben moment off-screen and Disney was basically saying, "Look, you know the drill, we know you know the drill, let's just get on with it." But then we get to the end of the Spider-Man "Home" trilogy and it turns out is was a three-part origin story, with Peter picking up more aspects of the 'true' Spider-Man as he went.
You’re absolutely right. It really was a long origin story as Peter hadn’t yet figured out what it meant to be Spider-Man and who he truly was.
Too many people dislike the MCUs take on Peter, but I honestly love it. I think the changes in the end were necessary, but not “fixing” since nothing was broken in the first place. It felt like a natural progression into the true Spider-Man that Peter needs and wants to be
yeah what if this was the plan all along?
@@Lil_Valor You perfectly summarised the MCU's Spiderman. A lot of people think that they finally fixed Spiderman but imo they were slowly building up the character like what MCU usually does. Throughout the entire Spiderman & Avenger movies he was dependent on everyone else to guide and get him through but slowly they started removing all the characters that mattered the most to him - Iron Man, Aunt May, Ned and MJ. Also at this point it seems like this is the best time to introduce Black Cat in the MCU as Spiderman has no one left.
This. Right here. This is the brilliance of the MCU's approach to filmmaking. They have the funding, fanbase, and hubris to approach character arcs like a TV miniseries, except each episode is a $100 million dollar film. The MCU can take two, three, even four entire movies (or, ya know, 6) to set up a character, and can spend a whole plot arc focused on a single aspect of that character's development. Most franchises are forced to do the work of those 2-4 movies in the first 30 minutes of the first film, and then get stuck trying to make sequels because they've already given the character his/her resolution. So they are stuck trying to force a new dramatic premise instead of just continuing to follow the hero's growth to maturity. We've seen this with Stark, we saw it with Captain America, we saw it with Banner, and we saw it with Thor. Now we're getting it with Spidey, Wanda, Falcon... love it.
@@1995blooper agreed
This movie basically fixed every big criticism that tom’s portrayal (not that I hated that version at all). Went from the guy who had it all to someone who genuinely lost almost everything while accepting responsibility. Super excited to see where this version goes next because I always thought the mcu Spider-Man had the most potential .
Maybe they just wanted to build the story structure and give it more depth before going through the old plot points. I mean... we already had two of the same. We didnt need to get rushed through another 10 minute father figure dies at the beginning of the movie plot device again. I liked that they took their time and developed their character more, so that it hit harder.
@@Ranshin077 Agreed.
I just wish there was emotional weight to it all
@@kouroshm1 both peter and the audience
@@kouroshm1 It's his fault. I just finished this movie and I'm sorry it's trash.
Honestly I think it was better to have all of this done during a later film. For me personally it created more weight for the moments of loss that he experienced because we really knew the characters. Definitely hits a lot harder for me personally when a moment like this happens in a story that generally happy than when a character is just constantly getting beat down
Except what’s the purpose of Homecoming and FFH?
@@samkeller5823 To entertain and help us get to know the characters, you know what movies are for
@@sean_mccadden the entertainment factor is subjective and hard to argue on (though I wasn’t entertained by Homecoming and FFH for the most part).
As for getting to know the characters, there’s little the two movies gave us insight on them that really set up NWH.
@@samkeller5823 it allowed us to become fond of them. That's all they had to do.
@@CamJames perhaps if it made you of fond of them. It did not for me.
I never felt like Peter was misrepresented in the prior films. To me, every MCU film prior to NWH that featured Spiderman was just part of a very drawn out origin story.
It tracks with the comics too. People’s perception of who Peter is supposed to be is largely shaped by the Raimi movies, which actually get a lot wrong about Peter from the comics. The most accurate Peter is actually Andrew Garfield’s version while Tom is a mix of classic Peter and elements Mile Morales. He’s more about finding his place among the greater Marvel Universe, which was 100% the right movie to make for the MCU.
The criticism of Spider-Man being too dependent on other heroes was always off base. In the comics Spidey always deferred to the heroes who were experts. He learns from everyone and is friends with like 30 heroes. He literally had a comic where the sole focus was him teaming up with others.
@@marcusmcneal7453 exactly
@@marcusmcneal7453 teaming up with other heroes is a given, but the way the MCU did it made him look like a sidekick that nobody took seriously. He was essentially only around for making memes and messing things up while everyone else told him to go home. Only No Way Home was able to fix that and even dr strange respected him in the end as his own hero
Keep telling yourself that, his origin was Civil War/Homecoming, not an entire goddamn trilogy, the people who work at Marvel just learned from their mistakes from the other movies and made it work, they did not plan this out
@@vesha6274 Of course it wasn't planned. They didn't intend for his origin to consist of 6 movie appearances. And yes, to clarify, I didn't think of all the prior films as origin, until watching NWH. Regardless, the end result is that every appearance up to and including NWH is origin, because Spiderman's isn't really Spiderman until he gets the uncle Ben speech.
Glad this movie was able to reunite everyone who loves Tobey, Andrew and Tom Spider-Man
Fr. That’s the feeling I came away with: this was a movie for all Spider-man fans, but especially fans of any of the movie incarnations. The feeling of euphoria watching this movie… it really gave a stamp of approval on Tom Holland for even the most ardent of Tobey and Andrew fans.
Not really... I enjoyed the cameos but thought the movie overall was pretty average
Well
@@Vivi_9 you're the minority... but that's also fine.
@@sindri1447 I really wanted to love the movie.. I have to say the other Spiderman and past villains were handled excellently, the execution there was fantastic, but the plot and movie as a whole disappointed me. I am glad the movie didn't disappoint the majority though
I had a lot of reservations about this version of a character, but his previous entries made his arc very powerful. To see Peter operate with some support system for so many movies made it much more powerful when he lost everything.
Absolutely! If we hadn't had those movies, Peter's sacrifice would not mean what it does to us. I've never been choked up in an MCU film (although I think I got close with Winter Soldier and Endgame), but I was teary-eyed when I left No Way Home.
Exactly
100%!! I like how they established how this mcu spiderman was so lucky, just so that they can take everything away from him. No way home just completes his arc. I don’t think he was broken at all, just unfinished.
@@tumbke Yep, Spider-Man was being developed like every other character was in the MCU, over several films. Almost everything in this video sounds like an old person saying “In my day”. I’m from that era but I’m not dwelling on it. This video is the epitome of the term “nerdstalgic”.
True
I don't think the writers made a mistake with homecoming and far from home. It was the most realistic take on how a teenager would fit into the vast interconnectedness of the MCU and also in a way shows how youngsters these days have it easy because of technology. As someone who grew up as a teenager with the MCU I kind of understand this narrative. You kind of have to show what he's got to actually know what he is going to lose to become a man, Spider-Man.
Far from home is a mistake. I kinda could suspend my disbelief the first time got taken advantage of because of his goody nature in that film, but i have have to try harder again in No Way Home. Had the second ones never existed and his identity revealed on another film, No Way Home would be more enjoyable
Agreed, Peter Parker/Spider-Man was never broken or needed fixing in the MCU. It fits perfectly into what a Spider-Man who grew up in a world of superhero’s would look like.
Personally, I disagree. Homecoming and FFH were my least favorite Spidey films, felt pointless to the character, and hardly resembled Peter Parker/Spider-Man as a character. He acted immature even for his age, is incredibly naive (such as giving Mysterious access to deadly drones), had poorly defined motivations, and was hardly responsible for his actions. To me, he was broken until NWH.
lmaoooo, MCU Peter parker is many things, but 'realistic' it is not
FFH was incredibly unrealistic to some points that my suspension of disbelief actually broke and i rolled my eyes at the absurdity of whats happening on screen and one should never feel this when watching a freakin super hero movie
@@RedDeath-qi4ci homie, by that logic none of the Spider-Man movies or comics are realistic. It’s realistic and accurate as it pertains to Peter Parkers behavior and established character. Not to mention Peter suddenly getting a girlfriend with someone he had little to no connection to before meeting them is very accurate to the comics. Peter had been introduced to Mary Jane for about ten seconds in the comics and he was all about dating her. Plus, Peter gets billion dollars suits gifted to him all the time in the comics. Just read Civil War
For me, the three movies each represent three distinct phases in the transformation from Peter Parker to Spider-Man: youthful naivete, selfish over-confidence, and then penitent responsibility.
He was never overconfident in ffh ever or any of his films. He shouldn’t have been naive In homecoming he’s been Spider-Man almost a year
@@Saint0999 maybe not in his own abilities, but I think he took it as too much of a given that the "good guys" would win after his experience in End Game. I mean, Nick Fury asks his help fighting an interdimensional threats and he tries to pawn it off on whoever just to mack on MJ. And in Homecoming all the experience he has was a few months of street level obscurity and then the fairytale at the airport
@@Saint0999 It's a question of scale. Between meeting Stark and putting on his first suit, Spidey did the stuff we see early in Homecoming; helping kids and elders, maybe stopping the occasional thug/mugging. He didn't have any supervillains. He really was just a friendly neighbourhood spiderman. He was never really threatened; maybe he had a few close calls in that time, but despite being a teenager (Note, if he was 15 in Civil War, and he had been Spider-Man for a year, he started when he was 14) he could take down adults; of course he was confident in himself. Especially after he then fights and then wins against, in his mind, superheroes. That's another big confidence booster. I mean, why do you think he was ALWAYS bugging Happy about when his next 'mission' was? Because he was confident he could handle anything Stark asked him to do; that confidence led to a ferry getting cut in half.
IMO, Tate got the first two backwards; he's overconfident in Homecoming, he's naive in FFH.
@@redwarrior864 this would be true if peter wasnt a pussy and incapable in homecoming. bro got scared by a dude webbed to the car, get his ass kicked embarassingly like every fight and have a rushed arc. but ye he was overconfident in HC fs i agree
NWH is literally the embodiment of Green Goblin saying, "The one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail."
"...fall, die trying..."
Die, trying, in spite of everything you’ve done for them. Eventually, they will hate you.
Think about it hero
This film had the most perfect ending. Peter lost everything like Aunt May, Ned, MJ, and Happy after Dr. Strange does the spell correctly to forget that everyone is Spider-Man. It gives a proper send off to Peter's new life with an apartment, no more Stark Tech, no more being an Avenger and now is the Spider-Man from the comics. It gave lots of nostalgia from the Raimi Trilogy and Marc Webb's films to help Peter's journey as he becomes the Spider-Man we needed. Tobey Maguire was like the Uncle Ben that had the most experience while Andrew Garfield was the most bitter that got his redemption for Gwen's death. They didn't want Tom's Peter to be in the same road they were in to be rageful and get what they wanted for each of their loved ones deaths. It solved nothing for Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man. It's who they were that lead Peter's journey to not make the same mistakes they did. He had to sacrifice everything to step up from being Iron Man Jr. to growing up to be the Spider-Man we deserve from the comics. It's been a wild ride to see Tom Holland's Spider-Man develop as we were watching his origin story saved as we we're watching his origin story become his story. It's a lesson to realize we have to lose everything to start all over again to gain confidence of what we once had. He had to learn what's great power but with great responsibility overcoming his guilt for what he lost but gained in the end. It's in the heart that Tom Holland's Spider-Man gave a closure to what the other films couldn't and having a new beginning to be a true Spider-Man. No Way Home is one of the best Spider-Man films that is on the same level as Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man Into The Spider-Verse.
If you think disregarding and completely disrespecting peoples opinions and abusing their power over them to be perfect
@@BattlestarZenobia Leave it to random youtubers to say the most nonsensical vaguely aggressive shit in response to an innocuous comment lol
Actually he’s still an avenger it’s just no one knows his identity or that’s he’s Spider-Man
Well said man, it’s a complete restart to his life and responsibility and it feels like he’s finally mature enough to handle that and grow into being the character we fully love
@@BlueBlazeKing yoooo they gonna hit everyone with that, "surprise spiderman has always been an avenger in the data base" twist
While I agree regarding how great No Way Home is, going to have to strongly disagree that the previous films didn't showcase Peter's internal struggles. In Homecoming, he has the option to go from major nerd to high school king while earning the affections of his crush by having Spider-Man show up to a party. He's standing on the roof in-costume and ready to jump down the skylight--then he sees an explosion off in the distance. He has a look on his face that tells us everything we need to know about his struggle, and then he chooses to go off and do the right thing. Meanwhile, the whole premise of Far From Home is that the superhero life is too stressful and he needs a break or to pass the responsibility on to someone else--which almost leads to Mysterio killing tons of innocent people.
This Peter Parker truly came into his own in No Way Home, for sure, and it's irksome that he didn't design his own suit until now, but he's absolutely grappled with the responsibility of his powers in the previous MCU films.
Exactly!!! Also People just like to complain about EVERYTHING, Homecoming was so we'll received because it was really refreshing and a great spiderman movie if they did what everyone now pretends the wanted since the beginning they would have criticized the movie for being way to similar to the first Sam Raimi one, yes it has Iron man, So what? Ever since the first Avengers movie there was always that group asking on every solo movie "where's Iron Man!?? Why isn't he helping??, Why they don't call Iron man!???" And yet when he shows up in a movie where his appearance actually makes sense they complain,
He did design his own suit. Remember, he was Spider-Man before Civil War? It's the same costume he used at the end of Homecoming. He even made his own web fluid.
@@babadoudidadouda Fair. I more meant in terms of the ‘main’ Spidey suit that we all associate with the character.
@@babadoudidadouda he also made his own suit in FFH, even if it was with stark technology
tbh I remember ppl complaining more about how much the trailers gave away about Homecoming than the movie itself
After that, it was mostly the same old 'ew kid spidey' stuff
Pretty interesting
Personally the pay off of the ending wouldn’t have been as important to viewers without homecoming and far from home. We watched this Spider-Man as a carefree normal kid and identified with him. We saw him fall in love hang out with his best friend and go through things we ALL experience. Asking a girl to a dance, losing yourself and values at the prospect of fame and notoriety. We saw him and felt all the same things. I will admit Far from home was a lot but without it No way home wouldn’t have worked. Spider-Man is always written one way I actually liked seeing him before the main sacrifice and feeling like you watched a younger sibling lose everything. You always want to root for him but this was the first Spider-Man I felt like I wanted to protect him. I guess that’s my take away. Homecoming and far from home set in motion the Spider-Man we know whatever happens now though will be heavily influenced at least for me by the connection I feel to Peter because we all saw him as a happy carefree kid who just wanted to be great.
I mean he was still socially awkward, it's just that "nerds" are less isolated than they used to be
He attends a nerd-focused "magnet" school, so he fits in a lot better than we're used to seeing.
Plus, the classic bullying wouldn't fly well anymore. People are less tolerant of it now, and there are folks like me who never really bought the idea that Peter couldn't just hold back enough to give Flash a good butt-whupping, call it "krav maga lessons", and be done with the whole thing.
If he can hold back enough to produce Spider-Girl without killing MJ, he can hold back enough to "attitude adjust" a normal guy without doing anything spidery.
exactly...this guy came off as a boomer tbh
@@stevenscott2136 exactly nerdstaglic really came off as an old boomer in this video
I would argue that homecoming fulfils your definition of a spider man story really well. Peter is told time and time again to not pursue the vulture, and yet he does, even without his fancy spider suit. He displays his determination, sense of responsibility and selflessness all throughout the 3rd act.
Yep. This video is a weird take.
He still suffers virtually no meaningful consequences. The weight/importance of being Spider-Man specifically (versus just a super powered being) is completely lost.
The problem is that when he ignores those warnings, he succeeds. It doesn't setup any sort of conflict or guilt and just reinforces marvel's obsession with infallible heroes. Him going after Vulture doesn't hurt anyone but Vulture. It would have made way more sense for people to tell him he needed to deal with Vulture, but he was unwilling to, and people got hurt as a result of his inaction.
@@skillswiper i mean he faces consequences fit for a 15 year old kid
@@TechnicalGamingChannel While I’m not the biggest fan of Homecoming and probably would be one of the last people to defend it, I will say that he did fail at saving the boat full of people. I know that it wasn’t the main conflict. And Iron Man saves them/solves the problem. But I think it would’ve been great if some people did die during that attack on the boat. I think there’s even a throwaway line from Tony about how “You’re lucky nobody got hurt” or something which made me roll my eyes because having Peter feel guilt for going after something himself and not being able to handle it and causing lives to be lost really would’ve helped that movie imo.
I’ve always liked the Home Trilogy before No Way Home, cause unlike a lot of people, I kind of assumed they were gonna play the long game with Tom. They had wayyy more time for him to develop as a character versus basically anyone else besides Tony and Cap. Everyone has been waiting for forever for Spidey to be in the MCU, and then when it wasn’t Tobey being a cornball quipper next to iron man they got pissed off. He’s young, he’s a kid, so I didn’t mind his first movie being a super light hearted teen comedy. They still sprinkled plenty of Spider-Man aspects in homecoming, so I don’t understand why people think it’s a bad “SPIDER-MAN” movie. Just because no one who he loves dies and he’s not emotionally destroyed to the point of borderline mania? He realized he needed time to grow, so he stuck to being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man after showing he DOES have ability to step up to the plate when needed. He realized himself that being a superhero is a lot more than the fame aspect like he thought with Iron Man. Then in Far From Home, he realized he doesn’t HAVE to be Iron Man to be a great hero, yes he has to fill in the shoes of Tony, but he can do that his own way. Being iron boy junior wouldn’t cut it. Then of course in no way home, he learns the cost of BEING Spider-Man. And now we’re possibly getting 3 more solo films plus other appearances after that? Yes please.
I love this
I feel like someones gonna reply to me saying that "well actually the home trillogy is garbage" or something, i can just feel it
@@mr.shplorb662 well actually
The Home trilogy is amazing
@@gabagoo777 that is acceptable
Yeah Marvel knows what it's doing with it's characters slow and steady wins the race. I can't wait to see Spidey's next journey.
I feel like marvel is the only studio you can rely on to actually go ahead and do what the fans want in an unexpected way.
Personally, I didn't have huge problems with the MCU version of Spider-Man other than the over-attachment to the other MCU superheroes, but even then I couldn't fault it as much. This was because I realized that the MCU version *had* to be this way. He's entering an already established universe with established superheroes and also coming off 2 franchises that didn't really cut it. This Peter, therefore, had to be different and had to have a different kind of origin story, which, it looks like the last movie completed.
To be honest, I thought Iron Man dying would be his Uncle Ben moment, but when it showed that he was affected in a different way, it started to make sense. Iron Man was a father figure for MCU Peter, but he was there to teach Peter the skills to live in this world as a hero and how to use them. He saw potential in a kid that was already acting like a hero. In FFH, Peter acted in selfishness because after Tony died, he was tired of being a hero. He wanted a break. He was a 17-year-old kid. But what MCU Peter *needed* was for someone to show him *why* he was a hero, and that, the entire time, was always Aunt May. In all 3 of the movies, she's shown as the person that taught MCU Peter to be the way he turns out to be. Tony doesn't do that for him. He guides him in a different way, and let's face it...Tony isn't too much of a selfless person in general. But May always was.
I think now that we have the whole picture, I can appreciate that this movie completed an arc I didn't see until now. It looks like even if they didn't necessarily plan all pieces of it from the inception, they at least planned to use characters in a way that would push Peter to truly be Spider-Man from the get-go. May was always meant to be his Uncle Ben. After all of this, this has become my favorite Spider-Man trilogy.
There's some weird and unfair takes in here honestly. Homecoming does fit a lot of the themes you've been asking for. You say that the he needs to misuse his power and learn from that, but then you use Tony calling Peter out for being overzealous and misusing his power, and making mistakes as a bad thing? And then isn't the conclusion of the film that he does everything he can - even without the suit Tony gave him - to make up for that mistake to stop the Vulture? Is that not him trying to make up for that one mistake and moment of selfishness you say Spiderman needs to do at 2:30?
Is Far From Home not a clear instance of "with great power comes great responsibility," Peter making a selfish mistake, and doing everything he can to make up for it? What Tony gives him is both an immense power and we see all throughout the film the responsibility that not only comes with that power but the crushing pressure and responsibility of being Tony's handpicked successor. What does he do? He, in an act of selfishness just wanting to enjoy his vacation and be with MJ, gives it away and gives it to the wrong hands. Realizing this mistake and learning from this mistake, he does everything in his power to make up for it and stop Mysterio. Again, exactly what you say a Spider-Man story is all about.
I think ultimately people are right though that he's not Spider-Man in those early movies. It's a silly point of criticism though because that's the point! He's not a full fledged superhero, he's a kid thrown into a battle of intergalactic scale. Of course he has growing to do, of course he's going to need help, of course he's going to make silly mistakes, of course he's going to be under the shadow of others! That's what makes his interpretation and character unique. It's in No Way Home that he actually becomes Spider-Man. No Way Home is his origin story as Aunt May says "the thing" before she passes, he loses everything, he becomes totally anonymous again, and he has to make his own suit. It's amazing for that, but that doesn't make the previous films wrong or bad. You're used to a trilogy where he starts as Spider-Man, this just happened to be a trilogy where he *ends* as Spider-Man, and it's silly imo to think that is somehow objectively a bad thing.
idk why I spent so much time writing this comment lol
I 100% agree a lot of weird takes in this video
For sure. I thought this video was quite harsh against the previous two movies, and I think you articulated it well. If anything, those dynamics in the previous movies set him up to make the same kind of choice here. It’s actually great character development.
Thank you, many people who say that NWH “fixed” Peter’s character clearly only took HC and FFH at face value without going much into. So many people miss the subtle messages and the character arc Peter went through in the Home trilogy. I honestly don’t get how so many people like the Raimi trilogy when they clearly don’t see movies in-depth, maybe nostalgia.
yeah I mean, I understand a spiderman story has fundamental elements, but new shiz is cool too, it doesn't have to always be about coming of age and self sacrifice. I want to see peter shoot up some drones, dammit
Yeah I can agree with the video that the first two movies (particularly Far From Home) don't really _feel_ like Spider-Man movies to me, but they still have the substance that everybody claims they lack. I thought Homecoming was pretty solid
I noticed the same thing, but I honestly didn't mind because I saw this as a kind of "high school years" arc, and expected more of the traditional stories as he grew up. He's not going to work for the Daily Bugle while he's still 16. And I think it was natural to build up the progression of his troubles/sacrifices. If you already start with the most extreme, it's hard to build up from there without eventually jumping the shark.
I agree. I figured him getting older would mean being Spider-Man would become harder. He'd be more independent, his enemies would be nastier, and his choices would be more difficult.
Ehh… teen Spidey in the comics and Spectacular still forced Peter to learn responsibility and be accountable to himself. I don’t think this being his high school years is an excuse.
@@samkeller5823 Not an excuse. Just a different experience for this Peter. Maybe even as a euphemism for growing up, he had people he could depend on all the way up to last years of high school. After that, he would have to figure out how to navigate into the world by himself.
I quite forgave Homecoming for playing it safe, after all it is nice to have a fun and refreshing movie with the character, although I do wish Far From Home somewhat took sacrifices considering it's supposed to be his next step, at least No Way Home was did so that's for sure.
@@samkeller5823 I mean he did learn responsibility and to be accountable in both Homecoming and Far from home, you just decided to ignore it.
- Homecoming, the whole getting pampered by Ironman, got his suit taken away, and has to fight the Vulture, after realizing who he is when he was trapped under the rubble? The whole, "YOU'RE NOT SPIDERMAN WITHOUT YOUR SUIT"
- Far From Home, The whole Given Stark Tech, thinking it was too great for him, he gave it away to Mysterio? The whole, "ATTACK OF THE DRONES" of the movie, too bad Mysterio had the last laugh.
The MCU did make passing references to Peter's backstory as a kid from a low income household, they just didn't make it consequential to his story in the films, frankly to the detriment to his character. His backstory as the "everyman" got dropped from Homecoming and Far From Home because he could lean on the support of the Avengers/ Iron Man to bail him out. What I wish they'd left in was the scene where he had to sell off the Lego sets or his refurbished tech in order to afford going on the trip to Europe, instead of washing that out of the story. Thankfully, that notion of personal sacrifice and self-sufficiency is readdressed by the end of No Way Home, in the most devastating fashion, where he is completely alone, no-one from his former life recognizes him, and he has taken it upon himself to don the self-made costume again to continue fighting crime.
Personally, I can enjoy different takes and incarnations of characters. I grew up on the 90s cartoon but I also appreciate Tom Holland's version. There was nothing broken with the MCU Spider-Man to begin with.
The Homecoming trilogy was a brilliant coming of age story redefining the origin story in a unique way and leaves the future slightly optimistic
No need to sugarcoat it, Far From Home was seriously bad and Homecoming was ok.
The only movie which was truly briliant was No Way Home.
@@ZOCCOK FFH is not bad
@@ZOCCOK NWH was really not much better than the previous 2
@@ninjanibba4259 FFH was hilariously bad. Even worse than TASM 2
@@TrolluxCaptor yeah no it’s not
With uncle Ben out of the picture, I feel this is how the MCU wanted to mature Spider-man, through these three movies. The first movies weren't "Spider-Man movies", as you like to say it, because they weren't supposed to. This is where Spider-man's story truly begins.
There are always many inconsistencies if we choose to say that uncle Ben died when Peter got his powers. Doesn't really make sense, he never mentions him, nor is he mature, like he should be after that loss. Ben's iconic line does not represent Peter; there are no photos of him, and no memory of him either.
I choose to believe that uncle Ben died when Peter was a lot younger, therefore he didn't learn the lesson of responsibility. Thus it makes sense that aunt May has taught him this lesson herself.
I don't really know what the leading story for uncle Ben is in the MCU, since he's never even mentioned; but I like this way of thinking.
Given that this is all a multiverse now, I think the whole point is that this Spiderman is not going to be the same Spiderman we grew up. He isn't going to have an Uncle Ben just like there isn't an Oscorp or a Harry Osborne. This Spiderman is for sure different.
But, it definitely paves the way to introduce more multiverse versions, like Morales. We know he already exists in this version (he was mentioned in Homecoming and Electro even says he thought Spiderman would be Black in No Way Home). So there is a lot of potential to bring that character in next, and to have him be mentored by like Tobey's Spiderman or Andrew's Spiderman.
Personally, since it's been confirmed that Peter is the little kid in the Iron Man mask whom Tony saves from the Hammer drones, I like to think that was the night Uncle Ben died; he was killed by another drone while trying to save Peter. That way, Peter still feels some guilt for it, but he was so young and unused to true danger at the time that no one in their right mind can really blame him for it, plus it plays into his desire to emulate Iron Man and the other Avengers - and the fact that it happens before he gets bitten by the spider further explains why it doesn't define him as strongly as it did in the other movies. Now we just need a flashback to confirm it.
@@ghidorah15 Yeah, at least a silent nod would me sufficient in that case.
Tom Holland’s Spider-Man to me was a refresh of the character, it’s been rehashed so many times with the original films and Garfield’s character, that Holland’s needed a new direction.
So I don’t feel like they did a disservice to Peter Parker’s story, because Spider-Man would’ve experienced franchise fatigue if they rebooted it a third time
I love that we all thought that homecoming was more or less the origin story for the MCU Spider-Man and we kind of had some issues with how certain elements were portrayed. but in reality the entire trilogy was his origin story, it was such a brilliant move on Marvel's part to take the slow burn route
Something in me doubts that was the plan all along
@@ollyburhouse2464 Even if that's true, Feige has been great about fan feedback and calling audibles
@@ollyburhouse2464 Fun fact, when Sony and Disney had their break-up for a little time because of their deal with the Spider-Man rights, it was said that No Way Home was supposed to be a Kraven vs Spider-Man movie which also makes sense since Peter's identity was revealed and Kraven is a hunter. Man, I hope to see Kraven one day fighting Tom's.
@@somecallmejeremy Kraven, now that sounds awesome.
@@ollyburhouse2464 it wasn't. it's just how mcu fans cope with how badly Disney misunderstood spiderman
"With great power" "comes great responsibility" "wait how'd you know that" "uncle ben said it" "the day he died"
I don't know if the blunders of the previous films were intentional or not, but for me they made Peter's arc in NWH so much more impactful.
With the traditional Spider-Man origin you know what he's in for. In a way the losses he takes feel par for the course. They hurt to witness, but it never feels like rock bottom.
MCU Peter spent so much time having a relatively easy go of it. He wasn't completely without his struggles. Losing Tony definitely had a massive impact on him, but he could still continue on with life as normal. Better than normal in fact. But because he had so much time to live like a normal kid, his loss of everything in NWH felt so much more monumental than I think it would have if it were a different version if the character. After leaving the theater for NWH I just felt crushed and mentally exhausted. Peter 1 had nothing left going for him aside from being Spider-Man. There was no silver lining to the situation like there traditionally is for other Spider-Men.
Read and collected Spider-Man comics since I was a kid. I agree with the overall idea of who our favorite wall-slinger is by definition of his overall character(struggle, dealing with loss, doing what is right morally no matter the cost, ect). That said Peter needs to grow with the times and I feel like that is what Marvel has tried and will attempt with FF4 and the next trilogy. He can’t always be a broke failure that causes the emergency he saves us from. Let him grow and learn from mistakes. imo People hate change but I think it is braver to embrace.
1:39 “the story is different therefore it isn’t Spider-Man”
I very strongly disagree. Just because it’s a different story doesn’t mean it’s bad. If it’s a story you don’t like that’s fine, but it being different isn’t why it’s bad
EXACTLY! i totaly aggre.
MCU spidey was uniqe, and they throw it away. (i think they throw it away mainly because of "Disney / sony" licencing problems). At the end of movie we get basicly same person we already have 6 movies about.
The main point is that every MCU character is slated for a character arc. Instead of establishing one for Spidey's induction to the MCU, they gave filler stories instead. In movies, people expect your story to start off with a plot opening, and give an ending. Homecoming and Far from Home doesn't have those. The narrative used in the first two movies are more suitable to be spliced up into episodic nature and put out as a TV series instead. If Far From Home was supposed to revolve a plot surrounding Peter Parker dealing with the loss of Tony Stark, they should be focusing on more detailed story revolving around their relationship, not an aftermath of Stark's death. Of course there are really good ways to start a fresh different origin, but their execution of Spidey in the world of MCU has nothing to offer in growth as a character. Just look at Spiderman : Into the Spiderverse where they put Miles Morales in the world of Spiderverse, THAT is how you establish a character arc. Miles arc has nothing in common as Peter Parker's except for one : Loss. Far From Home failed to develop Tom Holland's Peter Parker through that loss. The reason why Homecoming and Far From Home wasn't that well received with long time Spidey fans it's not because it's bad, their different way of doing Spiderman in the MCU feels like a family friendly popcorn flick, rather than making Spiderman a character that matters in the world of MCU. Watching Homecoming and Far From Home is like watching Sonic the Hedgehog for the funsies and cheers but that's not the kind of film fans expect from the web slinger. Long-time moviegoers indulged in the emotional attachment and moral inspirations from standard Spiderman films, the last they want to see is a 2 hour CGI fest that has none of those in it.
If I want to watch Godzilla vs King Kong I'll be expecting monsters in CGI. If I want to watch John Wick I'll be expecting badass gunfights. If I want to watch Spiderman, I'll be expecting a relatable struggling teenager whom endures the hardships of life and inspires us how to go beyond to adhere to one's own moral code. Don't blame older iterations for making the fans this way. If Raimi made the first Spiderman trilogy the same way as how the MCU made Homecoming and Far From Home, Spiderman would've continued making superhero genre looked like a joke, just like the failed line of Batman movies in the 90s.
Yeah. It's a story of Spider-Man because the main character is Spider-Man, not because the story is like the old Spider-Man.
He never said it was bad. If this was spiderman’s first debut, sure its a great movie. The overall story is good but because its spiderman, it just didnt feel like its spiderman. Its like what ubisoft did with AC odyssey, it has a good story but because its a part of assassins creed it didnt feel like assassins creed
@@Silvannax11 This criticism doesn't _work_ , because this is based on comic books. 60 years of Spider-man with completely different writers caused the character to change many, many times. Spider-man doesnt feel like Spider-man? Which one? The Lee/Ditko run? The Brian Michael Bendis Ultimate run? It's ridiculous how people pretend to be purists, when they didnt even read the source material. Instead they use the Raimi movies as their bible, which while trying to emulate the 60s Spider-man runs, is also hoakey and completely unfit for the modern times.
3:04
I do think Tom Holland's Peter is pretty smart, we literally see him make his own webfluid in the middle of his highschool class and designed his original webshooters all by himself, he's also bilingual and is a apart of his schools math team.
That is the one example of where I can recall MCU’s Peter being shown his intelligence before NWH.
it feels fake though, in Garfield's version i was able to buy that he was really smart, something i can't do with Tom Holland's version.
I agree, but being bilingual literally has nothing to do with being smart.
@Maxi Iroh No, you are just a biased Andrew's fanboy. Tom’s Spidey was smart since Civil War...
@Maxi Iroh You are talking nonsense, but ok.
Before watching this, I feel like this whole triology has been his origin story, and that only now is he the Peter we recognise, to borrow a UK football meme, he's come home. But honestly I preferred this way, it's like a longer form of telling his story. Of course I wouldn't feel this way if that was it for him. I definitely want to see him in a new trilogy.
7:38 "spider man stories should be about sa-"
"-ACK!"
@@cumswag1222 lol
I still have massive mixed feelings about the final beats of No Way Home.
Throughout the film, Peter is told, both directly and indirectly, that he doesn't have to do everything alone. His friends don't get mad at him for going to Strange to fix the problem, they're just dissapointed he didn't run the idea past them. When Peter looses May, his friends are there to comfort him and it's with the help of his multiverse counterparts that he's able to save everyone and avoid going down a dark path by killing Goblin at the end of the film. We're shown time and time again that Peter trying to isolate himself and do everything alone, while admirable, is self-destructive.
And yet, when we get to the end of the movie, he has literally no one there. No Aunt May. No MJ. Nothing. Which is even less than his comic book counterparts.
@Cuiasodo don’t forget my guy Ned with the Fruit cobbler!
I think he learned that, but once he sees MJ and Ned being happy without him, he chooses to suffer in their place.
I think on some level him learning the lesson to not isolate makes him losing his support structure and _being_ isolated that much more impactful. He's not choosing to go at it alone and abandon his friends; he's choosing to sacrifice the thing he's been taught is most important, because there's no other way.
@@LepidoliteMica That's true to an extent, but if he's choosing not try to re-establish contact with MJ and Ned, there aren't a lot of reasons I can think of that he'd do that, other than a kind of generic, "it's for their own safety". Which goes right back to Pete engaging in destructive behavior, since his friends always had a choice in whether or not they wanted to stick with him and put themselves in jeopardy in the process.
@@Cuiasodo That ending was awful. I like movies that potray necessary sacrifices in a positive way, but that was an unneccasary sacrifice which actually let MJ down. I hope they try to walk that all back because, as is, it was a terrible end to an otherwise ok movie. What's worse was the way they framed the choice, that they needed to be let go so they could go to a University and be successful and happy without him. It was completely tone deaf. What education is worth sacrifing your friends over? Do the people who make such movies know what an education is about? It's about a career and making money. It is not more important than anything else in the world..
You can't simultaneously recognize the genius of NWH while relentlessly criticizing its predecessors INTENTIONAL "shortcomings". They clearly knew what they were doing when they planned the home trilogy. NWH wasn't a 180 to the path the trilogy was on, it was the planned and meticulously designed crescendo.
HA! Doubt it. And by the way, it suddenly started to acknowledge other parts of Spidey's mythos reeks of shifting direction instead of a plan. It might have earned money but the number of people starting to be against the direction they were taking was growing as much as the number praising it.
Let's not kid ourselves. They had a plan up till FFH. It was during NWH's production where things began changing. It was either negotiation giving them more freedom to be more faithful to the character, or simply wanting to cash in on ITSV's growing popularity. Either way, the grinds did lead to fix the character for the better.
@@proto245 this is the most stupidest take on here after this train wreck of a video
Honestly I think all of the things mentioned in the video as “bad decisions” or “portrayals” of the character actually made it so much better when we got to the point when he lost everything and accepted responsibility. The MCU spiderman is my favorite one and No Way Home did an amazing job of showing us that he finally “understood the cost of being spiderman”. And we saw much more character growth than in the other movies in my opinion.
I mean...the whole point of giving him the drones was to show why it was such a horrible idea, I don't think it was that awful
Nahhh I think Tom Holland’s Peter Parker was a great example of how the MCU could do something different with a hero’s origin and persona. Tying him to iron man not only gave him that father-son dynamic, but it also led to him feeling lost after losing Tony when they didn’t get the chance to further develop their relationship. That’s what Far From Home was about. Him trying to be a hero on his own without Tony there to save him.
I really don’t get how Peter and Tony’s relationship can be described as a father-son dynamic.
@@samkeller5823 you’re right. I meant to say a mentor-pupil dynamic that didn’t get the chance to further develop into something like a father-son dynamic. Idk how I got the two mixed up lol.
Yeah. The thing is, I don’t want to see the exact same thing every single movie. I want it to be different, else there’s no point just remaking the same thing again and again. I don’t understand the criticism that it’s ‘different’, in my eyes, that’s a good thing.
@@matthewmckee6289 There's a difference between "different" and fundamentally changing the character.
I guarantee this guy would have thought Tony saying "the line" before his death would have fixed all his problems with far from home. This video comes off like he only cares about the fact the same old origin occurs and it's not spiderman till that happens. It's a very boring way to look at a movie franchise.
Homecoming and Far From Home had everything you brought up, you just weren't paying attention.
Or he doesn’t agree…
@Zane Drake or doesn’t share the same interpretation of said events as other fans and didn’t think the plots in the movies effectively convey what you believe were in them.
It's this type of lazy deductive reasoning that leads to stories and arcs having to change because fanboys always have to cry about one thing or another
I've literally been trying to explain this to everyone - like I have literally said all of these things about how the mcu spiderman really doesn't capture the essence of Spider-Man, it only superficially mimics him. Now I will be able to show people instead of just having to reiterate the same thing over and over again. Beautiful
the only thing this video gets right is the fact that spiderman dosen't sufferr through as much consequence as other spidermen. other than that the rest of the points are either weird or wrong.
he is awkward, he is really smart (debatably more so than the other spiderman), and he is wisecracking.
he embodies spidermans personality to a T, just not his struggles
I kinda checked out when you said the droids were the worst thing that happened to Spiderman. Like really? That was your takeaway from Far From Home? The majority of the details mentioned in this video just seem like you're so hung up on the trappings of Spider-man lore, that you never appreciated the heart and character work that went into building Tom's Spidey until it all crystalized in No Way Home. What you see as 'fixing' I see as well achieved character exploration and development.
I mean to each their own, I personally liked how Spiderman felt more part of the MCU rather than being alone, Watching Spiderman interactions with other heros and being part of the avengers was fun, now I assume they will take Spiderman back into a solo hero.
Yep, I loved the previous films and what they had done with the character, and hate how NWH took away all the things that made this version of the character feel new and fresh and enjoyable and left it with the stale crap we’ve seen before
My favorite thing about Peter Parker as a character is that he essentially does everything himself. He doesn’t rely on other heroes to become a better hero. I loved how it returned to form in the end with him making his own suit, truly being his own person and even moving past who he used to be. I was mad that the Venom film baited me into watching this one though lol
but wasn't it worth it if you liked the movie? 😂
Same for me hahahaha, I'm so glad he turned into an actual spiderman finally
Crazy how when the trilogy finished his character arc somehow ended up getting better out of nowhere. Like it takes a whole arc to see the arc
HC plus Endgame already did the entire arc and FFH is a really bad movie, we could've totally skipped it.
@@MaxIronsThird but then how would we have the whole “everyone knows he’s Spider-Man” plot line without the Mysterio reveal?
@@supersyndrome Infinity War or Endgame.
Mysterio could've somehow go hold of Avengers footage and Peter is there, unmasked.
We can't have an entire bad movie just to set up a plot point for the sequel.
@@MaxIronsThird that's an opinion
“Out of nowhere” 😂😂😂
I like to think that Spider-Man's entire MCU journey was his origin story
This is a spiderman than exists in a universe where superheroes are already a thing so him getting recruited and mentored by iron man is not a bad thing. Plus does everyone forget Peter is like 15 in his first appearance? He's significantly younger than the previous movies versions.
I never really liked any of his movie versions. It doesn't help that I don't like any of the actors the MCU picked for him.
The other movie versions were around 16-17, even if the actors were older in real life. And comic and cartoon versions of the same character were also teenager, but were still their own heroes and had to learn hard lessons on responsibility, and especially not defined in trying to impress an Avenger.
@@samkeller5823 Of course it's easier being your "own hero" when you're literally the ONLY superhero in your universe.
@@samkeller5823 Peter is 18 in the first Tobey Mcquire movie. He is a senior.
@@NoName-oo2td there are decades of Peter Parker sharing a universe with many superheroes in the comics but still was just Spider-Man without being anyone’s sidekick or defined by another character.
Haven’t watched the video yet but for me the fantastic thing about comic book characters as oppose to characters in other forms of media is how flexible they are. Some of these creations have been around for 50+ years and have had to update themselves constantly to stay relevant which.
Pick a person from the 60s, 80s, 2000s and finally today, ask them how they view Batman and see how they all paint a different picture for you. This extends itself to some of my favorite comic book stories.
The elesworld stories that take place out of the main continuity. This allows the writers to make even more significant changes to the characters which keep them interesting. Using DC Metal you can see how changing a few aspects of a character while emphasizing others gives a whole new vibe to the character. Making an established character fit into this new world is always interesting to me. And that’s pretty much what the MCU does with its characters for the most part and most evidently Spider-Man.
They took Spider-Man and put him in the MCU, changing up some stuff to make him fit better in this already established world. I enjoyed this but just like with every other elseworld story I see why others didn’t.
When you change a character you sometimes put less emphasis on aspects that certain people love, highlight aspects others hate and sometimes creat new aspects that are judged . This change is what drives these characters in my mind, without it most of them wouldn’t be as popular as they are today and that’s why I’m always glad to hear peoples opinions on them even if I disagree.
Wow, was about to comment but you pretty much said what I wanted to. I really dislike when people constantly go this is not *blank* as if franchises aren't allowed to completely reinvent themselves(feels so restrictive), most of the characters that we've seen over this long period of time have completely changed their origins in some way or another and shiw us from a different angle and in some ways aren't recognizable but that could be for the better in some people's eyes and it's less about WHO is the character (has been) and what YOU like about the character
@@wynnjones2435 Wow… I’ve been thinking about how some people can just dislike this MCU trilogy… when I haven’t even thought about the comics all that much, and how they affect older people. I, myself, is born in this century and therefore a teen who grew up watching the movies instead of the comics, so this gives me insight that not everyone has the same views and angles as I did…
I mean in my perspective I think the whole Home trilogy is amazing and perfectly encapsulates a long drawn out origin story for Tom’s Peter. I didn’t even realize Marvel’s doing this until NWH! And again, as a teen I don’t think much about on who Spider-Man/Peter Parker actually is with his determination and responsibility, so didn’t see any flaws with Homecoming and FFH. I was just a young kid enjoying a new version of Spider-Man, now in the MCU universe and timeline, and overall just feeling ecstatic about it. But now looking back, I can see how not everyone would have the same experiences as me and might be more loyal and knowledgeable with the things older people have read with the comics.
I really just don't think most of the criticisms people bring up about MCU's Spider-Man are valid. It's a different version yes, but the claim that it "wasn't Spider-Man" I really feel is just overly critical. I genuinely feel that the way they did it was the best way to incorporate Spider-Man into the established universe. They had to take a popular character, make him distinct from previous versions, and incorporate him into a larger world. Could Homecoming and Far From Home been better? Sure. Could any random person on CZcams do a better job incorporating him into the MCU? Highly doubtful.
I disagree with you. He really did not resemble Spider-Man to me until NWH. I couldn’t understand how people were arguing this was the best or most comic accurate Spidey with everything before NWH. Acting like a overly immature for his age, being defined by his idolization of Tony Stark, hardly learning from his mistakes, being excessively careless and naive, whiny, etc made him feel like Spider-Man only in name. Honestly, until this movie, I feel like this Peter Parker hasn’t proved his worthiness to be Spider-Man.
@@samkeller5823 your only knowledge of Peter/Spider-Man is from the Raimi trilogy. Same applies for the creator of this video. It was hard to get through this video without physically cringing at some of his arguments against Tom.
Tom isn't the most comic accurate, and neither is Tobey. People whose arguments against Tom are based off of the Raimi trilogy know nothing about 616 Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man, and shouldn't be allowed to argue who is the most "comic accurate" when they know nothing about the three Spider-men's comic accuracy at all.
Andrew is, and always has been the most comic accurate. When Nerdstalgic said "Tom's Peter isn't an socially awkward nerd by day..." I had to replay it just to make sure I heard that right.
616 Peter grows out of that phase soon after he gets his powers. Tom's Peter also IS awkward. Anyone who says he isn't hasn't watched any of his movies. His interactions with Liz, MJ and even Beck all show it, with Beck literally commenting on his awkwardness.
616 Peter Parker also grows out of being just a nerdy awkward kid. We can't expect him to be awkward forever. Tobey's Peter didn't change at all throughout all his movies.
"He's not a super scientist other than outlined by lip service" was also a horrible argument. He created his own webs, his own web shooters, his own moving lenses, created Doc Ock, Electro, and Sandman's cures.
Tobeys only intelligence feat was creating the Goblin cure, which he says he's been "thinking about for years". That wasn't even in his own movie.
So again, before trashing on Holland's trilogy because you're blinded by nostalgia, maybe pick up some comics?
@@tyrant7482 I also read to the comics, as well as have watched Spectacular Spider-Man.
I disagree. Prior to No Way Home, anyone and everyone who knows who spider-man is at the characters core was never in the MCU’s version of the the character. All criticisms were valid. He was different yes, and simply hating just to hate was stupid. But the character never grew as much in the first 2 movies than he did in This 3rd one. That is who spider-man is. It fixes nearly every criticism I and many others ever had. He f***ed up 3 times and it wasn’t until he finally cost the life of someone he cared about, that he became Spider-man. If the rumors of 3 more movies is true, I finally look forward to seeing him in all 3. (Just note I don’t hate the first two movies, I enjoyed them initially until I realized he doesn’t do much growing as character. It may be realistic in some ways, but it doesn’t make for great super hero’s in my opinion).
This was far from the best way to incorporate him, spider-man is a street level here you don't need to say oh he just appeared no he was always here hes just taking care a little guy. All The Avengers are blowing up countries spidey stopping a bank robbery or a muggin. And I don't know why you think that Hollywood is some gold standard quality you're the quality most of them are fucking incompetent. Won't prove go watch captain Marvel, go watch Black Panther (the soundtrack and visuals are great but the plot is so stupid) go watch Game of Thrones season 8, and et cetera.
Just saw you video essay, and it's FREAKIN AMAZING!!!! Someone finally had the guts to say that the MCU Spider-Man, needed to be fixed.💪😁👍
The ending to No Way Home may have been heartbreaking, but it also marked a new beginning for Holland's Spidey finally becoming the web slinger he should have been ever since he made his debut in Civil War. I can't wait to see what's next for him in the new trilogy.
I literally never understood the criticism towards the MCU Spiderman because to me it was clear that they're building him up over more than just one movie. He's a lot younger than the other two irl versions and of course got thrown into a way bigger world. Tony Stark gives him EVERYTHING and even though he has to fight aliens in space, he still has a smaller responsibility in his everyday life. And I thought it was obvious that that wasn't just gonna stay like this. We constantly show throughout Homecoming and Far from home that Peter makes BAD decisions. They're not praised. He DOES screw up and gets told so a lot of the time. He's just a kid and growing up with a very big responsibility that he can't really grasp. But that's just the thing, he's gonna grow up. He can't always be safe from consequences. And while I didn't expect the ending of FFH or NWH to end up the way they did, I wasn't really surprised about Peter finally becoming Spiderman. It was a way longer process ofc and he's still different than our other two irl Spidermen but that doesn't make his character "wrong". I really wonder why so many people thought he'd just... Stay a teen dependant on others? At least after Endgame it should have been clear that he wouldn't....
Oh my god. My exact feelings at the end of the movie was "Yes, this is where peter should be. The universe is finally in the right place"
Wow this honesty is so refreshing it's almost purifying. 👌🏼
THANK YOU!!! I own a comic book store, so I have these discussions pretty much multiple times a day everyday. I've told people for years that, although the Tom Holland movies are fun, they are the furthest from being Spider-Man movies. With No Way Home, I've told many people that this is the most "Spider-Man" movie the MCU has. No Way Home has actually had a ripple effect on me to where I like Far From Home and Homecoming more now because I see the trilogy as an origin story. We've been watching Spider-Boy this whole time, but now we get to look forward to Spider-Man.
Nice take, I totally agree on that
stuart?
But why is it bad that they did a different take on the character? If you want classic Spider-Man, just watch the earlier movies again. For homecoming they specifically tried to diverge from that formula.
Respect your opinion, but I complety disagree about all this Iron Man jr criticism. The whole arc of Peter in the three movies is about him dealing with his insecurities and growing into a independent hero:
CW& Homecoming - Peter looks up to Iron Man because Tony represent the hero he wish he could be (rich, popular and respect by people), which is why he start so desperate to impress Tony and become a avenger, because he doesn't see himself as great hero, just a loser (reflect by his school life). It's only after Tony take away his suit and Peter decide to battle Vulture on his own, going against Tony''s orders, that he finally belives in his potential to be his own hero (represent by the scene where he lifts that amount of rubble).
Far From Home - It's about Peter dealing with anxiety after Tony's death and people pressuring him to become the next Iron Man, which he doesn't want. The Edith glasses aren't just there for laugh, they also represent this struggle with Peter giving them to Mysterio because he doesn't belive that he can live up to this high expectations. It's only after Happy tell Peter that Tony wasn't perfect and that he doesn't need to become the next Iron Man, just being himself, that Peter finally overcome this fear and is able to defeat Mysterio. This development is also reflect in his relationship with MJ, with Peter even asking her if she was interest in him because he was Spider man only to realize in the end that she was interesting in him (peter parker) all along.
No Way Home didn't fix Peter Parker, it's just gave a conclusion for an arc that was already being made.
It was a child lock that was supposed to be on the glasses and suit. Peter and Ned took it off. It’s perfectly explained.
I think this version of Spider-Man is underrated. When the MCU has a project or character they plan on working on for a lengthy period of time they usually have the long game planned out and they slow roll us. I think that's what they're trying to do with Spider-Man. Instead of have a self discovery story in one movie they stretched it out over a trilogy.
I don't think marvel plans anything long term actually, just read about the constant rewrites and re edits of movies super close to the release date to avoid spoilers or whatever. I don't trust them with character development anymore lmao, that's why this movie surprised me
To be honest tho, I kinda loved how the bite isn’t his origin in the mcu, it’s him going from Tony starks follower to his own hero.
It’s fair to say that you don’t like iron man being so connected to Spider-Man in the MCU or the tech stuff, but it seems disingenuous to say that homecoming and far from home didn’t have what you said you were looking for in a Spider-Man movie (unless it needed to be the death of a love one in his origin). Personally what I appreciated about the first two movies was that both movies ended on a bittersweet note where something bad had happened due to Peter’s actions; Peter lost liz forever because he went after vulture & Peter lost his secret identity because he gave the tech to mysterio.
This movie really sums up and teaches Peter that everything happens for a reason if yk who pain from naruto is he literally says that lifes greatest lesson are learned through pain and through Peter’s experiences it forces him to grow as a person, every action has a consequence some affect you and some affect others
I watched it again over the weekend and it still hits so good.
Nah sorry. While Peter Parker becoming more like Iron Man was honestly a gripe about the MCU, Far From Home and the drone premise wasn't nearly the worst idea they've ever had.
He flat out said it was worse thing to happen to Spider-Man in general. I'd say that award goes to either One More Day or Sins Past.
While FFH wasn’t the greatest, I can appreciate it just being a fun movie, and Marvel was obviously taking advantage of the fact that it’s an MCU movie. But I did love the end of NWH, since Peter finally “became” himself. He finally fit in with the other Peters as he was now living on his own, now fully independent.
What's weird about this viewpoint of Spider-Man needing to be a certain way (and so many ppl are saying it, not singling you out) is that it totally fails to see that there a billion Spideys already in the sad sack mode. It was extremely refreshing imo to see a Spidey enjoy himself for the most part. To have a worthwhile father figure that he can look up to as a superhero. To get the girl and not have constant relationship drama. To have friends that don't all turn into villains or die. To have an Aunt May support him as Spidey.
But no, sure, let's make them all exactly the same and call it "fixed"
Hey thank you for making this video. I’m trying to be a writer but all my characters felt flat for so long. Their arcs were boring and held no emotional weight. But the way you simplified why spiderman is so compelling helped me realize what I was missing. That characters have to want to change and that I can’t just force it. It sounds simple and I probably should have figured it out waayyyyy earlier but I didn’t and this video fixed that. So thanks!
Eh, kinda liked the MCU Peter more than the others. We've had a sad Peter, we've had Peter crushed by guilt. But part of what I loved about Tom's peter is that it had the chance to go beyond just being a superhero, but also being a nexus of change. The avengers paved the way, tony laid the bricks, and Peter, with the potential power and wealth of Stark industries, could have done more for the world than just be a hero. But that's my take, great video either way
I don't think Peter should be wealthy, but I do think he should be able to enjoy success and a stable life.
Peter having Tony's money was literally NEVER going to happen.
Every SM MCU movie has been leading up to no way home.
It's incredible that the MCU, after so many films and becoming so big, still manages to make genuinely great movies like this and completely shock audiences. Look at almost every other franchise in history, audiences either got bored of them, or the franchise didn't know how to improve. The MCU continually redefines itself with each era, to a scale never before seen in cinema. Sure some are better than others (Eternals comes to mind) but in no way did they slow down or mess up the MCU in any way, I don't know how but that's the way it is. This is why many people don't think something like the MCU will ever happen again.
Wow, I love this channel, genuine critic's without ever getting political.
So relieved to hear similar thoughts I had myself about the MCU spider man relayed
This was so perfectly put wow
I've always said that Iron Man's assistance to Peter was completely out of character.
Tony's ark was all about how he couldn't trust anyone with mass weaponry: his company, the state, himself, and even an AI to do so. Yet here we see him give a teenager not only awesome technology, but has it oftentimes default to lethal methods...
But I will say that the MCU Peter Parker is not only back to a state reverting to the essentials, but as a person with new and unique potential compared with the previous iterations.
This Peter Parker has learned the joy of having a supportive team of friends and family who share your secret, the comfort of having other heroes sharing the load, and the weaknesses of relying on each, especially to the dangers of being exposed to dangerous enemies.
I picture a future when he could make cameos helping out some of the smaller MCU heroes in the same way he had been helped, creating a non-Avenger network for the next phase.
Oh God I completely forgot about Tony’s arc with his technology being misused. It’s hard to remember it in the DisneyMCU when he completely goes against his character time and again.
I completely agree and brilliantly said. What I would add was that I feel like the path they took to get to this point was exactly right. We couldn’t stomach ANOTHER origin story. I think we needed to feel the longing for what was missing in order to truly prize it when it was done so beautifully well. To me, this feels like the culmination of a journey TO Spider-man’s origin. Spider-man finally exists in wholeness and simplicity of what makes him special.
I think the journey here was exactly right.
Subscribed for such an amazing and detailed description.
i absolutely adored this video seriously great watching
Honestly he my favorite adaptation of the character. He arguably lost the most with tony aunt may a normal life and a relationship with his friends. I’m excited to see more movies of mcu SpiderMan
Watch spectacular spiderman
I don't think the first two movies were a mistake, I think we got a 6 episode long origin story. And I'm definitely ok with that.
great video fr 🔥
I think that you nailed the description of Spider-Man 100%.
One thing we should always consider with this version of Spider-Man is that he is part of a BIGGER universe. He cannot just go in the MCU and have us expect that he is strong enough to handle “Avenger”-level threats. He needed that character development like we have seen with the MCU trilogies, it just have to be a coming-of-age arc for him because he is being setup to fit in and be strong enough to fight his future battles in the MCU by himself.
IMO, we don’t need to compare and demand anything right now because we should rather be grateful as Marvel fans because Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios’ writers are working so hard creating the Multiverse Saga and introducing new heroes who need their own spotlights in the MCU.
I think Kevin & Marvel Studios went this route intentionally. Think about it, the first two franchises were almost copy and paste, just with different actors and slight tweaks. Marvel Studios had the task of introducing different characters and a whole different story than the previous franchises. This time, they gave Spider-Man EVERYTHING, then took it away and transitioned it into his origin.
Very genius if you ask me.
Different doesn’t necessarily mean better, especially if much of the spirit of the character is missing.
The MCU is the only franchise who can find the balls to make a Spider-Man origin trilogy
I almost cried in the theatre at the final scene when I saw him making that original costume and swinging thru the city
There’s was nothing wrong with him in the first place?
Naaaa
Strongly disagree. I don’t think he grew in these movies, not until NWH, along with lacking the feel of Spider-Man and **being defined by wanting to impress Tony Stark.**
Agreed, I loved what they did with the character, when he first showed up in the MCU I was deeply cynical until I saw they were doing something original and different with him that was beautiful, I wish we’d gotten more Tony Stark and Peter interaction. Whereas as No Way Home’s end leaves me feeling completely uninterested in him from here out, hopefully they can restore my interest down the line, by bringing back MJ and Ned and making clear that breaking the promise at the end would be a start
@@BattlestarZenobia I hated the interactions between Tony and Peter. Peter overly idolizing a man who was condescending with the movies treating it as if they had some kind of deep bond. Also, I really hated how Peter’s motivation/goal in Homecoming was to impress Tony.
At the end of No Way Home, he actually felt like Peter Parker/Spider-Man.
It didn’t “fix” Spider-Man. This Spider-Man movie trilogy was the best yet because it allowed Peter to develop into the character we’ve always known. It’s just character development, basic storytelling. You’re not supposed to tell the same story over and over, you’re supposed to come up with new material.
Then don't place the roots of that story within the ones people know, or try to pretend that didn't happen. CW hinted at the idea of Peter having had his uncle Ben moment. The moment they decided to move as far away from it only to come back with May feels like they didn't think it as well as they thought.
The Batman showed you can still have the same origin without showing it.
i always felt there was something missing with new spiderman, but thanks to you i finally realized...he didnt suffer enough to become one
Spiderman controlling an army of drones isn't the worst thing that has ever happened to him.
Glad I'm not the only one who had that same issue with Holland's Spider-Man's arc before No Way Home. This one definitely nailed it whole premise.
"It's cruacial that the character needs to misuse that power and then learn from that mistake and choose to dedicate himself to acting selflessly" Hmmmmmmm... Sound like... The plot of all three MCU Spider-Man movies that apparently aren't about Spider-Man. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
But he never misused his power we met him after he was spiderman after he was already using it to do the right thing. He didn't use his powers in the best or smartest ways but it was never a misuse of power
@Zane Drake except he still didn't misuse Edith he didn't know how to use it and at the end of the movie he rejects it again and destroys them. A misuse of power would be him using Edith to steal the necklace he wanted to get MJ or the money for it and that leads to mistirio finding out who he is and that puts his class in danger and that's how his identity gets revealed but as it stands. "Nick fury" gave up his secret identity. Peter gave Edith to a "hero" he thought knew how to use it correctly and his "misuse of power" was more of a misunderstanding. A real misuse of power is done out of anger, greed entitalment, or laziness such as brain washing the whole world because you need to go to your dream college and that's the easiest way about it.
@Zane Drake no he thought he was doing the right thing by giving to something he thought could use it better then he could. mysterio is the one that misused it. You wouldn't say Tony misused his armor if you made Captain America a suit would you?
@@lancejac6250 your missing the point, it was FOR HIM, not mysterio, tony trusted peter, peter thought he wasn't ready and quickly shifted it off to a guy he didn't know very well. he should had kept onto it till he was sure he was ready.
@@decidiumz175 again that is not a misuse of power. One of the traits of a good man is giving up power you don't feel you should have. nowhere in that movie does he use that power in a way that would hurt him or other for his own gain. mysterio does.
I truly think each movie builds his character and Tom’s Peter. The first movie focuses on who and how he does things. The second on trusting himself, and the third, like said in the video, is learning how to sacrifice.
that was a deep edit at the end... I like how you sacrificed the word sacrifice LoL Double entendre? Well played
All jokes aside, great highlight of the true meaning of being spiderman...
I'm so tired of people saying that MCU Spider-Man isn't Spider-Man he is this is a different universe telling a different story this Spider-Man became friends with Tony Stark right off the bat that's going to change things when Tony starts your mentor that changes everything but it's going to work out everything's going to be fine yeah he's not comic book Spider-Man because he's movie Spider-Man why don't people understand this
MCU Spidey was closer to the comics, which started as a high school comedy and evolved into something darker as Peter grew up. And in the comics, Peter also had other heroes as mentor figures. (The Fantastic Four, in particular.) Every single one of your criticisms is using the other films as a point of reference. The MCU's Spiderman was just as authentically Spiderman as the other film adaptations.
I agree. It's always the same old song
In this movie, Doc Ock gets attacked by Electro in Happy's apartment, easily survives the fall without any injuries and then he straight up *leaves*. Just like that. He doesn't even try to help Peter (despite being aware of the Goblin situation) or at least check on him to make sure that he's safe (even though Peter just helped him by freeing him from the control of the AI of his tentacles).
SOOOO GLAD TO FINALLY SEE SOMEONE CALL THIS OUT
I think the way they handled the build up to this movie made everything much more powerful. Plus, Tom Holland's Peter Parker does create his own suit early on and we don't get a full idea about his uncle. I have a feeling what May says may have just reinforced something Peter was already told.
It boggles my mind how many people mistake Peter Parkers personality. He was never, ever a socially awkward nerd by day and a wisecracking hero by night. There was never a separation between Peter Parker and Spider-Man in the comics. Before the spider bite, Peter lacked the confidence to say whatever witty remark or comeback he had in his head.
Spider-Man was also not born out of overwhelming guilt for not stopping Uncle Ben’s killer. Uncle Ben isn’t even all that important in Amazing Fantasy 15, he was just Peters uncle who died. Spider-Man was born because of a mix of that guilt and the love of the feeling Spider-Man gave him. Spider-Man is not a miserable burden on Peter Parkers life, Spider-Man is what lifts Peter up.
The OG Stan Lee and Steve Ditko run of the character is where the writers looked to for the inspiration of their movies themes and tone. Those early 100 issues ranged from very, very lighthearted to mildly serious and occasionally tragic. Hell, the original Spider-Man No More comic has nothing to do with the guilt of Uncle Ben but rather Peters lack of confidence in himself. And when Uncle Ben does come into play in the story (for the first time since he was killed offscreen in AF15) it is to inspire Peter to take up the webs again.
MCU Spider-Man uses those themes in the early comics to tell good Spider-Man stories. Just because we didn’t see an ‘uncle Ben moment’ until NWH doesn’t mean this Peter has never gone through hardships. We know Uncle Ben died because if he didn’t, Peter wouldn’t be Spider-Man. We see Peter constantly missusing the great power given to him and trying to make up for it. NWH’s ending just finally had Peter truly understand that message in order to become a better Spider-Man.
👏👏👏
I think the first two movies set up everything that Peter had and the third took it all away. It was a more drawn out Spider-Man origin story instead of having it all packed into one movie. It wasn’t supposed to be set up that way but I think it’s cool it ended up being that
THANK YOU for mentioning Nicholas Hammond! It would've been GREAT to see him as 'Old Man Spidey' somewhere in the movie.
It’s almost like the trilogy had a thematic arc
THIS POINT IS EXACTLY WHAT MY SISTER AND I SAID AFTER THE FILM! I’m so glad other true believers noticed this too! 👍🏻
And you’ve just proved my point that all the whingers who moaned and whined about his previous films are fundamentalists
"true believers" lol
This was their plan all along, so nothing needed "FIXING", it was just a very long origin story
In the beginning I was skeptical about your idea but after watching the whole video I wholeheartedly agree