PRS Guitars - 22 vs 24 Frets (Differences, History, etc.)
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Another video for you PRS lovers - let's discuss the major differences between the original 24 fret PRS, and the later 22 fret models (including some history on the design). I share my thoughts, including key details that typically get overlooked, even though they impact your perception of these guitars greatly!
What are your thoughts? Which model(s) do you prefer?
Want to learn more about the PRS Custom 24? Check out my earlier video here, which has 15 different examples highlighting 30 years of evolution:
• PRS Custom 24 - The Ul...
00:00 Intro
01:43 Our PRS 24 Fret Model
02:18 Our PRS 22 Fret Model (and some History)
03:20 Ground Rules for My Opinion
04:08 The 22 Fret PRS Design
06:08 #1 - It's TWO More Frets!!!!
07:27 #2 - Neck Pickup Tone
09:39 #3 - The Play Experience
13:24 Hybrid Options!
15:17 Wrapping it up
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My friends were asking me if I really used those extra two frets, and the answer was, not really. But I do use frets 21 and 22 somewhat regularly, and those frets are much easier to reach on the 24 fret models.
That's a really good perspective also! As long as you gel with the other characteristics of the 24 fret design, that's definitely a 'plus' within the 22 fret range of that guitar. :)
I thought the 24 was superior to the 22, but now that you've explained it i know its not, it's just different. This opens up my options way more, thanks!!
Glad it helped! There are definitely some non-negotiables (like 'I absolutely need the physical 24th fret') where I understand a player seeing the 24 as superior. But in my opinion, seeing them as two separate/unique tools definitely opens up your options! :)
When I play my 24 fretters, I do indeed use the top 2 frets. The biggest difference to me with PRS is that on both, it’s much easier to play above the 12th fret. And, unbelievably, it’s in tune up there! I struggled for 24 years with another major brand. I bought their “best” model and went through 2 fret jobs and a fingerboard planing. It never played in tune. The ergonomics of these are better, and it changed my playing style.I do hear sonic differences, so I have both. I also have set neck and bolt on. It’s about the playing, the instrument will do its job.
Great point! PRS definitely has intonation spot on, and if your guitar never quite plays in tune, it's a lost battle already.
You have a really great presentation style and your delivery of information is really easy to follow. Perfectly explained. Thanks!
Appreciate the feedback. I try :)
If you solo on a 22 fret and you need that high E. You can either perform a whole tone bend, OR you can also achieve the same note with a natural harmonic ( < 24 > ) . The downsides of this is lack of speed (it interrupts a sequence or run) and also no tapping potential for that note. BONUS TIP: You can also get the 23rd fret as a natural harmonic via: < 16 > on the b string. This means your fretting finger will be in the 16th square in order to fret a high E-flat but right over the 17 fret. You get nearly the same harmonic via < 4 > on the same b-string which is an octave lower but the resulting harmonic is still the same octave; weirdly enough.
I personally have found bolt-on necks to not usually make the 23 and 24th frets accessible to normal technique. You have to modify your hand and thumb position to reach them and avoid the horns of the body and wrap your thumb against the neck block. Set-neck designs, however, seem like a different story and have a selling point to make for upper fret access (although I have never played a set neck).
I'm not a PRS user, but I thought I'd chime in for fun.
All very real/accurate perspectives - appreciate you sharing this!
Well, they're not US made ones, but still.. I got a SE standard 24 and a SE custom 22 semi-hollow that use the same exact pickups, so even if it's solid body vs a partial hollowbody, I guess some comparison could be valid, and I second your impressions!
- Neck pick sounds deeper on the 22, and that probably emphasizes the difference to the bridge tone!
- Different feeling to play on right hand, probably because of position and angle/height
- And finally yes, they kinda drive you to play in different styles!
I had bought the 24 before, like it a lot! But when I tried the 22, I immediatelly had a better feeling, much probably because it's more aligned to the styles of music and playing I like the most! Initially I didn't realise why, but that perceptions also came to me with time!
Great video, thanks!!
The SE's are amazing guitars - very cool to hear you get similar perceptions. Makes sense though - the same design decisions/attributes apply. :) Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!
A very clear explanation that I didn't find so in other descriptions of the 22 / 24 fret topic.
Appreciate you checking it out!
For me, after having tried both, I much preferred the 22…but im a smaller guy and it just felt more comfortable for me to play. Sound wise I didn’t notice much of a difference, it all came down to playability and comfort. I felt like there was less of a reach towards that first fret and all in all felt right in my hands.
Your perceptions are definitely correct - the PRS approach with the CU24 does have the neck shifted further away and bridge higher on the body (as compared to a 22 fret model). For me, it's just a slightly different playing experience - I tend to wear my CU24 guitar higher, and approach them with a more 'technical' playing approach, where my CU22s are very comfortable to play lower on the strap, which loosens up my playing style a bit. Makes me do different things, which is the type of inspiration which I personally like from different guitars.
I like the idea of just having one of each... such lovely instruments.
One of each is always the best answer - I think I'm testament to that a few times over!
I’m in the market for my first PRS. They all feel good in the store but this video helped make sense of everything. Great explanations and visuals!
Congrats! First PRS is a big purchase, and very glad I could help! Curious to hear what you end up with if you have a moment to respond after. :)
Excellent explanation, thank you very much ! I love both 24 and 22 frets - in fact it's fun for me to change from time to time the guitars and the styles ;-)
Using both is really the way to go - enjoy them!
That animation is the perfect demonstration of why the 22 fret models sound so much better (in my opinion, of course) than the 24 fret models. First of all, the neck pickup is shifted so much further up the string that it results in greatly increased lower frequency response. Second of all, the bridge is shifted more to the center mass of the body, which changes how the body wood is activated by the bridge, and all the resonances that creates and how they propagate. The 22 fret models are just better looking, as well, because visually the components are more in balance.
Appreciate the watch and comment. I do agree - the animation definitely helps put it in perspective, very much a 'picture is worth a thousand words' type situation. :)
I prefer the 22 because the spacing of the pickups equates to a wider tonal range .
That's a good point and another great way of looking at it - the typical '22 fret neck pickup tone' that we correlate to the position is definitely a larger deviation from the bridge than what you get on a 24 fret model. Appreciate you chiming in!
Drilled my neck to be as long as 24 but still 22 frets I moved the drill holes on the neck. Its been fantastic.
Interesting - curious to hear more, what guitar model did you do this on? Did you also move the bridge position on the body? I'd think that without equal position change at the bridge to keep the scale length, you would have some intonation issues as a result (since fret placement is a function of scale length).
@TheGuitarRackOfficial The guitar is a old made by Gibson Epiphone Strat. 80s model hockey stick head. I kept everything the same. I just did some intonation.
I really love this video! You get into explaining some things that are not obvious to everybody. I've got some additions.
Pickup placements vs sound
The 22f neck pickup placement emphasises the 4th harmonic of the open strings. The 24f pickup does the same to the notes being played on the 2nd fret. This is not the only, but probably the biggest pickup placement effect when playing chords.
Also
The closer the pickup is to the end of the string, the thinner/brighter the sound will be (simplified, but generally useable statement). Here, psychoacoustics kick in. People tend to judge the sound differences of pickups in a guitar by playing chords and other things with their fretting hand not at the upper end of the fretboard. Then they conclude that the bridge pickup is brighter than the neck pickup. But at upper part of the fretboard the, the relative placement of the pickup changes. At the 22nd fret, the pickup pickup on the 22f neck is much closer to the end of the string than the pickup on the 24f guitar. So here it is actually brighter - not warmer.
Great discussion here. Just my 2 cents having bought my first PRS custom in 1988. I go for the 24's because they have a pretty unique voice and feel and sound completely different than my Gibson's and Fender's. But if you are not struck on Les Pauls, I can tell you with great certainty that a typical McCarthy handles itself very well in the company of Gibson R8's and R9's. Scary how good they are.
Appreciate you watching, and great input! I do agree - if you let go of the fact that the McCarty is not a single cutaway design, it definitely holds its own in those traditional tones. I enjoy mine very very much!
I own a DGT and that is in my opinion the perfect PRS. I have a couple of other PRS models that is amazing but the go to is my DGT.
Great model, agree! I myself seem to prefer the McCarty, but have a lot of respect for the design elements of the DGT, and the unique things it brings to the table! What other PRS are you rocking?
@@TheGuitarRackOfficialyes it’s a great model, McCarthy on steroids 🤣
I have a Hollowbody II and a 245 SC. I bought my first PRS custom 24 in 1987 and sold it late 1993. I couldn’t stand the rotary switch anymore 😀
@@Groovemaster2000 Oh, the good old rotary! I've come to accept it (like the tones in the different positions), but it's definitely not designed to be 'most convenient' for live use. ;)
Where did you get the racks in the background? Great video 🤘🏻
In my experience, they are ALL 'right' for you! The only thing is which is the right choice to buy 'next' - which may depend on what you want/need or prefer...
I have 2 24fret PRS guitars - a Custom 24 and Custom 24 Floyd
I have 5 22fret PRS guitars - 594 DC, 594 HB, Hollowbody ii, Special Semi-Hollow and 509...
All have their own 'thing' going on - a Custom 24 isn't going to give you a vintage LP-ish like tones like a 22 fret 594. Therefore, the decision is which do you need, want, prefer to buy first.
I like this answer a lot. I can say I definitely subscribe be to this given my collection! :)
I experimented with a 22 fret McCarty some years ago, and did not buy it. I think I did not love all of the tones of the 5 way option, but did love the neck pickup sound on it's own. The fellow in the shop explained that the screws on the neck pickup were under the 24th fret secondary harmonic, which leads to some richer secondary tones. Two of my other electrics have this setup and both have deep warm neck pickup sounds. My third is 24 frets with single coils. I do love the PRS necks and scale length though. Nowadays I've done so many pickup swaps, I wish I had bought that guitar and swapped out the pickups and rearranged the 5 way switch a more to my liking; it could've been mine for about 2k, but oh well. Enjoy your beautiful collection!
Definitely many details to consider, no doubt. In my experience, if you like the overall feel/resonance of a guitar, it's usually worth a little electronics work to help you dial it in to your preference. Not to late to try another and swap some pickups! ;)
The problem with this common secondary harmonic explanation is that the location of harmonics depends on the vibrating length of the string, which means that this only holds true when playing the open strings. Not to mention that if you want to pick up the harmonic, you actually don’t want to “listen” to the area directly underneath one of the nodes, as this are the places where harmonics are undetectable.
@@boshi9 was about to write that... when you play F# on a 24 fret guitar the 'harmonics' are then in your mythical sweet spot. Also, if your pickup is exactly where the 24th fret would be, the open string octave harmonic (think 12th fret) has the highest amplitude, but for two octaves harmonic (5th fret harmonic or "24th" ie. touching string just above the pickup) it's the point where the string barely vibrates. Humbuckers don't show it that much cause of two rows of pole pieces where the gap between bobbins is actually below the harmonic, but play a 5th fret harmonic on a Strat or Tele neck pickup -- you'll hear how it's very silent through the amp in comparison to fretted high notes.
Here is a great video explaining harmonics and overtones. You are correct that the harmonic will move away from the 24th fret on any fretted note, but nodes do not mean the sring is not vibrating. The antinodes of the second harmonic are at the 5th and 24th fret--anti-nodes vibrate more. Enjoy! czcams.com/video/XPbLYD9KFAo/video.html
Good stuff!
Thank you!
Interesting insights. I am mostly a Fender guy but I have a 2003 Custom 24 which I always loved because of the feel, shape, trem, neck - but I never really liked the sound or rotary 5 way. I had a McCarty which I didn't really gel with, and with retrospect I can see why it never felt as good as the Custom 24 to me. I recently put a set of 57/08s and a 3 way switch on the Custom 24 and it's my most played guitar now. You should do a video where you show us the contents of that wall of cases!
Sounds like you lived through exactly what I discussed here - and then made your perfect combo in the CU24 with the preferred electronics! Definitely planning for a longer video with the larger set of 'the rack' - coming soon! :)
Very interesting
I finally broke down and purchased a PRS last year without ever having played one and sort of making fun of them for the past 20 years because of their (sometimes) gaudy looks. I saw a mint condition Floyd SE for $600 shipped so I took a chance. I have to admit, I can't believe how great this $600 guitar is, it's almost all I've played since I got it and I've got guitars like a 69 Goldtop Deluxe, 62 Jazzmaster, 52 Tele reissue, higher-end Ibanez Prestiges and a dozen more. I've been wondering what a nicer PRS is like and am toying with the idea of selling a few guitars to find out. I'm not talking about Private Stock or anything that extravagant. This is what I'd like...basically The Floyd with a two piece bridge, more traditional pickups, jumbo stainless steel frets and locking tuners. From everything I've looked at, nothing quite ticks those boxes.
Can't argue with your decision to finally try a PRS. I'm sure it's a killer guitar! Production USA offerings with Floyds are limited, but they do make them now (in the past, it was private stock only) - assuming you've looking here? If you cross down, you'll also see the other option in the CE24 Dustie Waring. I think these have traditional PRS frets, just to be clear. :)
prsguitars.com/electrics/model/custom_24_floyd_2021
@@TheGuitarRackOfficial Thanks, I'm actually trying to avoid another Floyd Rose...looking for something similar to a USA Floyd but with a two piece bridge.
PRS doesn’t do and has said they won’t do SS frets.
I’ve been looking for a backup custom 24 not sure if I’d like the thicker body or the bigger heal
It's definitely a different feel. Have you actually gotten to play a 22 fret yet? I don't find the 22 fret heel intrusive, but I know some players absolutely don't get along with it.
I’ve been looking for a backup custom 24 not sure if I’d like the thicker body or the bigger heel
Definitely a feel difference to consider there. What other guitars do you typically play?
I bought a custom 22 from a friend that needed money fast. Turns out the neck pickup's tone is sweeter than my 66 Es-335 or my 2000 Les Paul.
It's a great tone, isn't it? How are you liking the guitar overall?
@@TheGuitarRackOfficial Feels like a Short scale like my Les Paul. When I pick up my Stratocaster it feels like the neck is long.
@@mayito714 Suspect you know this, but what you're feeling is correct. The PRS is 25"scale - just a bit longer than Gibson, but still shorter than Fender. :)
Anyone know what type of guitar racks are in the back? I need some of those.
I can help with that! :) Here's the Amazon link: www.amazon.com/Raybee-Shelving-Adjustable-Shelves-Capacity/dp/B08PB94QPC/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Raybee%2Bshelving&qid=1616981349&sr=8-1&th=1
I currently own a 408 wich is a 22 fret. I sold my Custom 24 SE complete the money i needed to buy the 408 and sound and quality wise the 408 is so much better but i do miss those extra 2 frets some times.
There's definitely a give/take between the models. The 408 design is great though - great choice, and glad you're enjoying it!
You forgot to mention that the 22 fret places the neck pickup directly over the harmonic spot of the strings. That is the major tone difference.
That's what I was covering in point #2 - 'harmonically ideal position', but you're correct, I probably could have expanded on that a little more. Thanks for watching!
I may be in the minority, but I love the sound of the 2 inner coils together when the pickups are closer together. It better emulates the strat quack.
No argument there - it's a great sound for sure, and only possible in the more versatile wiring configurations.
Its not only about 2 additional frets, 24 fret guitar has pickups close together and has more usable sound options, a.k. virtual middle pickup with classic PRS rotary switch.
Agree - there are no doubt tonal impacts. The biggest one to me is the tone of the neck pickup, but you're correct, if you take into account some other model specific features (such as the 5-way rotary), other cool things come into play as well!
I thought i would prefer 22 but the 24 just feels more right.
Always important to not get tricked by the 'specs on paper' angle - gotta try it out and see what works (and doesn't)!
Is there any obvious difference in the fret spacing 22 vs 24?
Fret spacing is a function of scale length. Since both guitars are 25" scale, whether it's 22 frets or 24 frets, the spacing is the same. :)
What about the difference in the harmonics? I've heard 24 fret vibrates at different places (hence placement of humbuckers.) Also its easier for me just to "reach" normal frets like 15 17 etc.,
Good points - it's interesting, because everyone looks at these differences in a unique way. The 'harmonic' angle to me is best captured in the neck pickup tone, but I'm sure there could be a little more going on in the crazy 'tone equation'. As for reach, that's definitely part of the play experience - by shifting the neck out and adding the two frets, all of the other frets are technically 'not as crammed closer' to the body. Thanks for watching! :)
It seems like PRS is making less and less 22 fret models, which is a shame. Bring back the CE 22 dammit!
They've definitely been very open that their 24 fret model is the better seller. Sounds like we need to buy more 22 fret models! I can say I absolutely love my McCarties.
GREAT VIDEO !! HOT STAFF ~NEW SUBCRIBED
No Owl No Deal.
:-)
Luv and Peace.
That's a nice and simple way to decide! :)
@@TheGuitarRackOfficial I've never played a PRS 22 fret guitar but I've played other manufacturers 21 and 22 fret options.
A shorter scale length changes the whole guitar feel.
Les Pauls are easier to bend on than Strats or PRSs.
A 22 fret guitar with the PRS scale length boggles my mind.
The feel should be the same with just less access to the higher registers.
Am I missing something?
I have a 2001 PRS Custom 24 and it's stupid playable. Better even than my 94 IBANEZ rg570 which for 20+ years was the best guitar I'd ever played.
The PRS sounds amazing and is really good to play. It's not quite as good for shred stuff on account of having not as flat a neck as the Ibanez but it's close enough that there's not enough in it for me to prefer the Ibanez.
It has the Pattern Thin neck.
It's a ten top but the finish has suffered over the years and there is an area of clouding under the strings at the front.
It's still a very special guitar to me and it was bucket list ticked when I was able to buy it from Reverb.
Sometimes your heroes are worth meeting.
🙂
Luv and Peace.
Ever since I learned the difference between vibrato and tremolo a couple of years ago after playing for 50 years, and using the words interchangeably, I cringe just a teeny bit when I hear someone refer to a guitar's vibrato system as a trem. BTW I play an S2 custom 24 And enjoy certain things about it but it is definitely different than a 22 fret guitar.
Appreciate you watching and the comment. I know this can definitely be a debate - I try to stick with what the builders use, and PRS definitely refers to the system as a tremolo. Understand where you're coming from and how it really represents a vibrato effect though. :)
@@TheGuitarRackOfficial I know that's why I said I just cringe just a teeny bit because even the great Leo Fender used the terms interchangeably, look at the tremoluxe and vibroluxe amps. But it doesn't hurt to know the difference. For those who don't, vibrato is a pitch change, tremolo is a volume change🙂🎶
Where is the playing?
What the sence of it?
O_о
The video format was intended to be more educational/informational - not a demo like some of the others I do. :)
Dude talks so much holay, 4:10 this is what you came for.
Appreciate the feedback - there's some 'talking/teaching' in there for those not as familiar, no doubt. Have some more tone clips with less talking coming up! :)
@@TheGuitarRackOfficial Awesome thanks man. I enjoy the vid was just in a rush
Dude never plugged in so we could actually HEAR the difference between neck pickups. WTF?
Appreciate the feedback - this was intended to be more of a teaching video, but more tone clip ones coming very soon. :)
I don't like the look of the 24 fret PRS guitars. There's a huge amount of body from the bridge to the strap button. It's kinda like when someone has a huge forehead lol. It's just wierd. So the Custom 24 has a giant forehead!
Don't know how I missed this, but I love this comment! Time to reach out to Paul and rebrand the CU24 as the 'Huge Forehead' guitar. :p